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Thread: 2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

  1. #4945
    Quote Originally Posted by mcs View Post
    The money being quoted for Gray is a bit bonkers ($2m over 3 years). But he will be a decent signing.
    Where are you reading that? Seems way overs and more than most on our list would be getting, Papley included

  2. #4946
    Veterans List aardvark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plugger46 View Post
    Clarke, Thurlow, Taylor and Brand are just list cloggers.
    Gotta have someone to play NEAFL.

  3. #4947
    Quote Originally Posted by Plugger46 View Post
    They've absolutely lost the plot. Gray will be useful enough - Clarke, Thurlow, Taylor and Brand are just list cloggers.
    Agree re: Thurlow and Brand.

    Taylor is definitely not a list clogger. He is probably best 22 for mine. Verdict is still out on Clarke imo. Started the season poorly but really seemed to hit his straps as a tagging midfielder, will definitely get a fair few games next year. Plus he's only 22 years old.

    However I struggle to see how Papley, Taylor and Gray all slot into the same side (even Hayward, noting he's more of a medium forward). One of them will have to play substantial midfield minutes consistently. I think it'll be borderline impossible for Ronke to get a game next year.
    Last edited by longmile; 1st November 2019 at 10:42 AM.

  4. #4948
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Wizard View Post
    Clubs are cutting players who have been giving a chance but are really just good reserves players with no upside.

    This is either Harley or Gardiner's works or both and i am losing faith in them.

    Just because you were a good player and captain or a corporate lawyer does not mean you will be good at running a club.
    I've said it before and I'll say it again now, Kinnear Beatson seems to be a sacred cow on RWO. Why? I'm a fan of Kin - I think KB is one of the best in the business and we're lucky to have him. But why exempt him from even the possibility of criticism? Even the best make mistakes. How can you single out Harley and Gardiner and overlook Beatson when he would have the most clout when it comes to recruitment decisions? Sure, Harley is higher up the chain but his responsibilities are different and he is less experienced. KB would have the most say of anyone in the club over the signing of Gray and Brand (and about how much we pay them). I think Harley and Gardiner are the whipping boys because they are newcomers and outsiders. Which is not a reason to doubt their competence but does explain the prejudice. The fact they were chosen by us despite in spite of being relatively inexperienced outsiders attests to their ability.

    Anyway, I'm not willing to call Brand and Gray (or even Clarke and Thurlow) recruitments errors. They are serving a purpose and haven't cost much (possibly excepting Gray if the above report is true, which I doubt). At this stage, we have upgraded Jack Maibaum to Kaiden Brand. While I accept Maibaum's ceiling is unknown and possibly higher than Brand's, he has not yet played an AFL game despite being on our list for 3 years and is currently coming back from a serious injury. Brand on the other hand is short-term depth if our frontliners go down. He has proven himself as capable, although not stellar, at AFL level and can come in and play a role. I'm not expecting him to be starting 22 unless Melican has an ordinary pre-season. Possibly Brand will surprise everyone and turn out to have his best years in front of him but I don't think we are expecting that and we have drafted him as insurance against injury. He won't have cost much and, although it would be nice to have a promising youngster developing in his place, we have evidently decided that Pink and Maibaum are not yet at Brand's level and not likely to get there in 2020 and we need something a bit better than them whlie others come online. Still wonder whether we shouldn't have targetted Keath or Francis.

    I hope we haven't paid Gray $2m/3y - that seems a lot and also unlikely. What is the source of this information? That said, Gray's highlights package was impressive. I liked it better than Squizzy's. I'm curious to see how we get all of Papley, Taylor and Gray in our best 22 (which I expect we will, injuries permitting) and what that will look like for the way we play footy. I especially want to know how we are going to win the footy. Are we putting all our chips on Naismith? Probably not. That seems too fraught a strategy but I reckon it's part of our strategy.

  5. #4949
    We've picked up some good DFAs in the past, Jeremy Laidler turned out pretty well, and other clubs have got great value from discards: Lyons, Henderson etc. I also think its a bit soon to put a line through these new players that haven't played for us yet.

    Having said that, we didn't get great value from, or give a genuine opportunity to Menzel. Thurlow at this point looks like a bust. And Clarke the jury is out. So last years recruits haven't been great for us.

    But this year's decisions feel more measured and less last minute. And we have a very strong draft hand.

    Next year feels like the one when we'll start trying to bring in one or more serious players via trade / FA. 2020 another year of rebuilding / growth.

  6. #4950
    Travelling Swannie!! mcs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markwebbos View Post
    Where are you reading that? Seems way overs and more than most on our list would be getting, Papley included
    I don't believe it to be correct, but that is a figure I saw suggested earlier somewhere - can't find it now however So just ignore my tired early morning ramblings is probably the best approach!

    Half that would be much more like it I would think.
    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

  7. #4951
    Kaiden Brand has some kicking ability: NZ Camp: Double trick shot - hawthornfc.com.au.

    Also found this kind of dull, kind of interesting video of him having lunch with a teammate on the Hawthorn FC website: Let's Do Lunch: Brand & O'Brien - hawthornfc.com.au. They don't talk about anything especially interesting but it's a great window into the life of the players both in terms of what it's like at a footy club and revealing a bit about them as people. Would love to see Swans media give us some of Will & Paps having lunch, or Aliir & Melican etc. etc.

  8. #4952
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodspirit View Post
    I think Harley and Gardiner are the whipping boys because they are newcomers and outsiders. Which is not a reason to doubt their competence but does explain the prejudice. The fact they were chosen by us despite in spite of being relatively inexperienced outsiders attests to their ability.
    It was informative and amusing to go back and read some threads from 2010-11 on our then fairly new coach. Longmire was nearly universally abused as a hack with no imagination, no sense of the game and no plan and the predictions of doom and gloom for the Swans with him in charge were persistent.

    Then in 2012-14 he was a genius, a mastermind and easily the greatest coach in the competition. He seems to be back to being a complete spud now.

    Such are the dramatic attitude swings of the footy fan. You can hardly blame players like Buddy and Daniher for wanting to get away from it. At least in Sydney it's only hardcore Swans tragics in a couple of online forums - in Melbourne they have to face it everywhere they go.

  9. #4953
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerman View Post
    At least in Sydney it's only hardcore Swans tragics in a couple of online forums.
    What are you saying?

  10. #4954
    Quote Originally Posted by Markwebbos View Post
    Damian Barrett has changed his tune! A selection from the piece below.

    BARRETT: The inside story of the Daniher debacle - AFL.com.au

    Daniher was in Sydney to receive treatment from a medical specialist highly regarded in the NRL industry. Swans champion Buddy Franklin had also been treated by this specialist. The catch-up with Harley, with whom he had developed a special rapport in 2011 when part of the Australian Institute of Sport squad - which also included Stephen Coniglio, Adam Treloar, Luke Parker and Jeremy Cameron – was a casual one.

    Harley genuinely felt the meeting was nothing more than a coffee with a person who saw him as a mentor. As he has observed privately in the months since, Harley regularly catches up with big name players from rival clubs, particularly some from the team at which he captained to two premierships, Geelong, as well as footballers from Greater Western Sydney, some of whom live near him in Balmain... Harley actually didn’t realise at the time of the July catch-up that he [Daniher] was desperate to leave Tullamarine, and the Swans, as well as Daniher's own management, had felt that any exit plans could wait until free agency applied at the end of 2020.
    Credit where credit is due: this is a good article by Barrett. The most in depth and believable article I have read yet about what happened and how the trade period drama came about. Works well for him too in the cynical media landscape. First he can get a lot of clicks by pandering to anti-Swans sentiment and fanning the flames of outrage in a shouty op ed. And then he can get more clicks and possibly some cred for breaking the behind-the-scenes story about what "really" happened. Never mind the personal cost to players like Daniher who is going to suffer a lot scrutiny and limelight in the year ahead just to drive clicks and sales. But too little, too late. I agree that Barrett should apologise for his earlier rants. I won't be holding my breath waiting.

    The real story is what is going on at EFC that there are so many disaffected players. #AdelaideImplosionAllOverAgain ?

    There is reference to some trade figures being unwilling to deal with Dodoro. Is that for real? We hear a lot about this but never any specific examples. If it is for real, how can get away with being such a dickhead? And how can Barrett say we should have been ready and willing to pay overs just because we should have known that Dodoro wouldn't settle for less? That's just gormless on his part.

  11. #4955
    Quote Originally Posted by Markwebbos View Post
    What are you saying?
    + 1

  12. #4956
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plugger46 View Post
    They've absolutely lost the plot. Gray will be useful enough - Clarke, Thurlow, Taylor and Brand are just list cloggers.
    Mmmm.....let's look at some of the 'list cloggers' from other clubs that we've recruited and turned into good players over the years......

    Richards, Mattner, Kennedy, McGlynn, Shaw, Mumford, C Bolton and even Morton and Laidler.

    "Absolutely lost the plot"?.....wayyyy too early to call....but feel free to vent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Wizard View Post
    Completely agree! Who is in charge of our list management???

    Why would Brisbane get rid of Taylor if they are in the premiership window, or Hawthorn delist Brand if they have already Frawley near retirement?

    The strategy of picking up players from other club may have work ten year ago, but with the expansion clubs there is not enough talent to go around.

    Clubs are cutting players who have been giving a chance but are really just good reserves players with no upside.

    This is either Harley or Gardiner's works or both and i am losing faith in them.

    Just because you were a good player and captain or a corporate lawyer does not mean you will be good at running a club.

    The waste of salary cap to get in these hopeless player is a disgrace.
    Oh dear....'outrage' is in full swing I see. Get over yourselves people and stop attacking the 'outsiders'. They're Swans now......get behind them!
    Last edited by stevoswan; 1st November 2019 at 12:56 PM.

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