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Thread: 2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

  1. #5293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Morrison? Do you mean Reynolds?
    Yeah, sorry. I had "Harry" in my mind and then "Morrison" popped in for some reason. I was too lazy to go and check. (There's a Harry Morrison who plays for the Dawks.)

  2. #5294
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazedjosh View Post
    Mclean and Bell were promoted to the senior list I believe. Which makes it 5.
    Knoll has extended but I'm not sure if he extended as a rookie or a senior.

    I'll see if I can find the source on that.
    I've heard no prior suggestion that McLean was promoted. Bell there seems to be some ambiguity around, though Barracuda has indicated above that he believes he will remain on the rookie list for 2020. Though this article suggests Bell received just a one year extension (and is silent on rookie or senior list status of any of the players mentioned).
    Five Swans re-signed for 2020 season

  3. #5295
    The sheer numbers of senior players that have left the club and senior spots available indicates that Bell and McLean pretty much have to be promoted from the rookie list to make the numbers work.

    The senior list outs are
    1 - D Cameron
    2 - J McVeigh
    3 - J Rose
    4 - Z Jones
    5 - N Smith
    6 - H Grundy
    7 - D Menzel
    8 - K Jack
    9 - j Maibaum

    We have only brought in
    1 - L Taylor
    2 - S Gray
    3 - K Brand

    So we currently have 6 senior spots.

    From the rookie list we have removed
    1- C Hirst
    2 - D Tucker
    3 - T Pink

    We have added

    1 - B O'Connor

    Which is where your 2 rookie spots are.

    However, we only have 5 national draft picks. So we can't fill our senior list with national draft picks no matter what. We need to promote some guys. Even if we only promote Bell and McLean, and use all 5 of our picks, although I think that is very unlikely, we still have 1 spot available for a DFA signing. The alternative is we keep Bell and Mclean on the rookie list and then fill out our senior list with DFA players. A scenario I suggest is unlikely as both have already made their debut in the seniors and there aren't that many DFA's that provide an upgrade on McLean and Bell. So if we promote both of them we have 5 rookie spots. If we promote Knoll or Amartey we would have 6 rookie spots. We can find Cat B rookies easily through our academy, so filling those spots is easy to do. That gives us space to rookie Maibaum, and then rookie a mix of our academy graduates and players currently training with us.
    If we promote 2 to the senior list, we can still use 4 national draft selections, or use 3 national draft selections and sign 1 more DFA players. Or it could also give us the flexibility to keep one list spot open for a Supplemental List spot prior to the start of the season.

    It should also be noted that we need to stockpile points for Gulden and Campbell in 2020, so I would speculate it is likely we only use picks 5, 22, and 31 this year, then trade 44 and 81 for whatever future picks we can get to add to the draft points stockpile we need in 2020.
    Last edited by dazedjosh; 19th November 2019 at 12:52 PM.

  4. #5296
    What about Gray and Brand?

  5. #5297
    Good point, I'll add them in now.

    Even with them added to the list, we still can't fill our senior list with all of the picks available to us in the national draft.

  6. #5298
    Bid on Green then in the following order:
    Jackson
    Young
    Kemp
    Serong
    Flanders

  7. #5299
    Hopefully aidyn Johnson from Port Adelaide (who is trialing with us) is on the right trajectory and may earn a spot

  8. #5300
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazedjosh View Post
    Good point, I'll add them in now.

    Even with them added to the list, we still can't fill our senior list with all of the picks available to us in the national draft.
    Your last sentence doesn't make sense because the picks allocated to us by the AFL should be exactly the number required to fill the senior list to the maximum of 40. If you have an extra list spot, you just get allocated another pick.

    I'm not sure that your on/off the list analysis fully takes into account the fact we added three rookies during the course of the season - in the pre-season supplemental period and the mid-season draft.

    And bear in mind we ran with a 39/5 split last year (senior/Cat A rookie), a departure from the Swans' norm in previous seasons of a 38/6 split.*

    But you've also ignored the Tippett effect - he was one of our five original Cat A rookies last year who has now been removed. That offsets (a little) the effect of adding three players during the season. (Or alternatively, you can ignore him altogether, and then just allow for adding two players midway through last season. Same effect.)

    * There was some debate about this because (so someone observed - can't remember who), the AFL Almanac or Digest, or whatever they call it, listed Ronke as a rookie for last year. The Swans' own website listed him as a senior player. It doesn't really make much difference which was correct in terms of counting the number of spots available this year unless one thinks he'll still be a rookie in 2020. I don't (but then I don't think he was in 2019 either).
    Last edited by liz; 19th November 2019 at 02:18 PM.

  9. #5301
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    PS I've moved about a dozen or so posts from the Pre-season thread to this one because they seem more relevant to this thread.

  10. #5302
    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    Your last sentence doesn't make sense because the picks allocated to us by the AFL should be exactly the number required to fill the senior list to the maximum of 40. If you have an extra list spot, you just get allocated another pick.

    I'm not sure that your on/off the list analysis fully takes into account the fact we added three rookies during the course of the season - in the pre-season supplemental period and the mid-season draft.

    But you've also ignored the Tippett effect - he was one of our five original Cat A rookies last year who has now been removed.
    Here's the draft order - Indicative draft order: Your club's picks after the Trade Period - AFL.com.au
    Here's the picks we have according to that order - 5, 25, 32, 44, 81

    Here are list changes - List Changes - AFL.com.au
    With regards to the mid-season draftees, I took them into account, and listed Hirst as an outgoing. I also listed McLean as being promoted to the senior list, and he was our supplemental player. Knoll is already on the rookie list and was factored in. Tippett isn't included in our list as his list spot was taken the supplemental period and mid-season draft players. His list spot had already been taken and no longer needs to be factored in.

    I'm 99.99% sure my numbers are correct, but feel free to check them. Taking into account the number of national draft picks we have, the only way we can fill our senior list spots is if we are promoting, or have already promoted, players from the rookie list to the senior list. Considering we have 5 draft picks, that means 1 of Bell or McLean have been promoted. I'd be very surprised if we used pick 81, and instead promoted the other player who hasn't already been moved up to the senior list.

  11. #5303
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazedjosh View Post
    Here's the draft order - Indicative draft order: Your club's picks after the Trade Period - AFL.com.au
    Here's the picks we have according to that order - 5, 25, 32, 44, 81

    Here are list changes - List Changes - AFL.com.au
    With regards to the mid-season draftees, I took them into account, and listed Hirst as an outgoing. I also listed McLean as being promoted to the senior list, and he was our supplemental player. Knoll is already on the rookie list and was factored in. Tippett isn't included in our list as his list spot was taken the supplemental period and mid-season draft players. His list spot had already been taken and no longer needs to be factored in.

    I'm 99.99% sure my numbers are correct, but feel free to check them. Taking into account the number of national draft picks we have, the only way we can fill our senior list spots is if we are promoting, or have already promoted, players from the rookie list to the senior list. Considering we have 5 draft picks, that means 1 of Bell or McLean have been promoted. I'd be very surprised if we used pick 81, and instead promoted the other player who hasn't already been moved up to the senior list.
    I was adding to my post as you were responding to it.

    Have you taken into account the fact that we ran with a 39/5 split in 2019?

    Also, the summary table that the AFL website lists is inconsistent with the round-by-round list. The latter indicates we also have pick 76, but this has been omitted from the summary list.

  12. #5304
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    I see Hawthorn have a little problem.....but I'm sure the AFL will create a convenient loophole for them to jump through.

    Hawthorn facing draft snag as it looks to trade future first-round pick - AFL.com.au

    "AFL.com.au understands the Hawks are prepared to trade their future first-round pick for 2020 in a deal to land a second first-round pick for this year.

    However, it faces a battle to land the selection because, under AFL rules, to trade out a future first-round selection it must retain its other picks in that draft.

    The Hawks traded their 2020 second-round selection during the exchange period, so would need to replace that to be allowed to move their future first-round pick."


    I'm guessing the Hawks believe that by making this public, the AFL will somehow accommodate their plan......time for a coffee with Gil perhaps?

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