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Thread: 2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

  1. #6121
    bit of iron fist young warner !
    "be tough, only when it gets tough"


  2. #6122
    well its all over bar the shouting

    The list of 51 elite players is out !!!

    AFL 2019: Champion data elite players; Dusty Martin, Patrick Dangerfield; Buddy Franklin | Fox Sports

    which 3 elite players would you have taken if they were available in the trade period and rebuild the team around

    just for fun

    no party poooooopers allowed
    "be tough, only when it gets tough"


  3. #6123
    From that list? Maybe the Bont, Grundy and Whitfield. Age is on their side in terms of building a team around them.

  4. #6124
    Veterans List wolftone57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodspirit View Post
    Interesting article about the draft: Inside the draft's first round: Twists, turns, bluffs and the big calls - AFL.com.au. Most relevantly for us, it suggests that we would have taken Lachie Ash with our first pick instead of Dyl Stephens if the Giants hadn't taken him first. Also says the Giants were ready to match, and would have matched, a bid for Green at pick 3 (despite having traded 3 first rounders to get their pick 4). Instead they would have traded down their pick 4 before matching. And if for any reason Jackson had not been available, Green was Melbourne's next preference.

    The big nearly deal that also had a big impact on the first round was Adelaide nearly agreeing to trade back to Carlton's pick 9. They considered it because they wanted McAsey and hoped he would still be available at pick 9 but they didn't do it because if we had taken Young, Freo might have taken McAsey at pick 8. I don't know how solid the information is but it is interesting to get the window into what was happening behind the scenes.
    Well that is interesting as Kinnear stated afterward that the Swans were always going to pick Stephens. They had decided Ash would not be there well before the draft day and we were only interested in Stephens as he fit our needs

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  5. #6125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie.Gerald View Post
    well its all over bar the shouting

    The list of 51 elite players is out !!!

    AFL 2019: Champion data elite players; Dusty Martin, Patrick Dangerfield; Buddy Franklin | Fox Sports
    It's a bizarre list, and reminds me why I find it hard to take Champion Data's player rankings too seriously. I realise it's data driven, and some argue that makes it objective, but there is still a huge amount of subjectivity involved in deciding what weighting to put on the myriad of "footy acts". I reckon any data driven model still has to be subjected to a "does it make sense" test, albeit based on subjective assessments of what players bring.

    The question of "elite" is vexatious because different people place emphasis on different aspects, but for me, no-one is elite until they have delivered over a period of time. That's partly because being consistently good is a key element of being elite for me - including the ability to play through injury (which all players have to do at some time over a stretch of a few seasons), and also demonstrating that you can evolve your game as opposition players get to know you and adopt measures to stop you doing what you do well. To that end, I really struggle with the idea that a first year player (Sydney Stack) is yet "elite".

    I am also confused how Alex Rance isn't an elite key defender, but Majak Daw is - both missed almost the entire season last year, but Rance has been doing it for years and Daw only switched to defence in the last couple of seasons.

    And Anthony McDonald-T is an elite "general forward" yet Charlie Cameron isn't?

    And if the measure is about being one of the best in your position, does it really make sense that seven rucks are elite? Gawn and Grundy few would take issue with, but NicNat (with his injuries), Goldstein, Marshall, McEvoy and Ryder as well? Ryder might have been an elite ruckman some years ago but I find it hard to think of him as elite now. Marshall is in the same boat (nearly) as Stack - let him do it over seasons before labelling him elite.

    Taylor Walker and Jeremy Finlayson are elite key forwards, but Josh Kennedy and Tom Hawkins aren't?

  6. #6126
    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    It's a bizarre list, and reminds me why I find it hard to take Champion Data's player rankings too seriously. I realise it's data driven, and some argue that makes it objective, but there is still a huge amount of subjectivity involved in deciding what weighting to put on the myriad of "footy acts". I reckon any data driven model still has to be subjected to a "does it make sense" test, albeit based on subjective assessments of what players bring.

    The question of "elite" is vexatious because different people place emphasis on different aspects, but for me, no-one is elite until they have delivered over a period of time. That's partly because being consistently good is a key element of being elite for me - including the ability to play through injury (which all players have to do at some time over a stretch of a few seasons), and also demonstrating that you can evolve your game as opposition players get to know you and adopt measures to stop you doing what you do well. To that end, I really struggle with the idea that a first year player (Sydney Stack) is yet "elite".

    I am also confused how Alex Rance isn't an elite key defender, but Majak Daw is - both missed almost the entire season last year, but Rance has been doing it for years and Daw only switched to defence in the last couple of seasons.

    And Anthony McDonald-T is an elite "general forward" yet Charlie Cameron isn't?

    And if the measure is about being one of the best in your position, does it really make sense that seven rucks are elite? Gawn and Grundy few would take issue with, but NicNat (with his injuries), Goldstein, Marshall, McEvoy and Ryder as well? Ryder might have been an elite ruckman some years ago but I find it hard to think of him as elite now. Marshall is in the same boat (nearly) as Stack - let him do it over seasons before labelling him elite.

    Taylor Walker and Jeremy Finlayson are elite key forwards, but Josh Kennedy and Tom Hawkins aren't?
    Great point, and thanks for saving me from reading the article. Obviously a waste of my time based on your assessment. Taylor walker elite ? Wow. Sydney stack too, pull the other one !


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  7. #6127
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    I think someone split a number of drinks into the Champion Data computer at the Xmas party last week to come up with that list.
    Jeremy Finlayson! I like the bloke, but basically he's had two-thirds of one good year. Meanwhile, the "other Josh Kennedy", the
    bearded one over in Perth has been a gun for the best part of a decade but isn't on the list. Mitch Robinson, Paddy Ryder, Majak Daw...
    the Champion Data computer is drunk.

  8. #6128
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodspirit View Post
    Interesting article about the draft: Inside the draft's first round: Twists, turns, bluffs and the big calls - AFL.com.au. Most relevantly for us, it suggests that we would have taken Lachie Ash with our first pick instead of Dyl Stephens if the Giants hadn't taken him first. Also says the Giants were ready to match, and would have matched, a bid for Green at pick 3 (despite having traded 3 first rounders to get their pick 4). Instead they would have traded down their pick 4 before matching. And if for any reason Jackson had not been available, Green was Melbourne's next preference.

    The big nearly deal that also had a big impact on the first round was Adelaide nearly agreeing to trade back to Carlton's pick 9. They considered it because they wanted McAsey and hoped he would still be available at pick 9 but they didn't do it because if we had taken Young, Freo might have taken McAsey at pick 8. I don't know how solid the information is but it is interesting to get the window into what was happening behind the scenes.
    "The Blues used it on midfielder Sam Philp, who Sydney and North had interest in in the 20s."

    I think we would not have predicted how the draft would play out. So probably had a list of players as possibilities for our later picks. I don't think we would have expected Gould would still be available at our second pick.

  9. #6129
    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM View Post
    "The Blues used it on midfielder Sam Philp, who Sydney and North had interest in in the 20s."

    I think we would not have predicted how the draft would play out. So probably had a list of players as possibilities for our later picks. I don't think we would have expected Gould would still be available at our second pick.
    I think the evidence is clear that the journos had no idea who the Swans were into. They all has us taking Flanders. None had us taking Gould. We give very little away that we don't want to. I'd say it was possible that we liked Philp at the right pick but only a select few people in our club actually know that for sure.

  10. #6130
    Senior Player Bloody Hell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie.Gerald View Post
    well its all over bar the shouting

    The list of 51 elite players is out !!!

    AFL 2019: Champion data elite players; Dusty Martin, Patrick Dangerfield; Buddy Franklin | Fox Sports

    which 3 elite players would you have taken if they were available in the trade period and rebuild the team around

    just for fun

    no party poooooopers allowed
    Sydney Stack?
    The eternal connundrum "what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object" was finally solved when David Hasselhoff punched himself in the face.

  11. #6131
    On Elijah. I’ve noticed the constant reports before being drafted of “off field issues”, “maybe not prepared for AFL, “has the talent but not commitment”.

    I have a very close relative who has spoken to him and spent time with him n his friends several times. His only issues is he like to party n have a few drinks. Pretty much like most young adults his age.

    Expect this “commitment, preparation, off field issues” to disappear in the right environment preparing to become a full time professional sportsman.

  12. #6132
    Quote Originally Posted by Boddo View Post
    On Elijah. I’ve noticed the constant reports before being drafted of “off field issues”, “maybe not prepared for AFL, “has the talent but not commitment”.

    I have a very close relative who has spoken to him and spent time with him n his friends several times. His only issues is he like to party n have a few drinks. Pretty much like most young adults his age.

    Expect this “commitment, preparation, off field issues” to disappear in the right environment preparing to become a full time professional sportsman.
    Very encouraging. Thanks for sharing. Enjoying socialising and having a few drinks not any basis for writing a player off or even down in my book.

    I can't help but think it must go further than that and relate to his discipline with training or something too. But does your relative say categorically that is not the case and he is super professional about that stuff?

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