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Thread: Are the Swans headed for the spoon in 2019?

  1. #25
    A free fall low down the ladder is due.
    The only one desperate to play fast footy is Buddy , can’t he play midfield.

  2. #26
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    Poor old Horse can't win. Virtually everyone on RWO was calling for a change in game plan. The coaching staff are now trying a quicker, move-it-on quickly style and now this is being questioned.

    Getting back to my earlier argument about injured players, even though past their absolute best, you can't tell me we wouldn't be better off in terms of win/loss with:

    Grundy for McCartin in defence.
    Smith for Thurlow.
    Hayward for Clark
    Menzel for Ronke
    Naithsmith for Sinclair who goes forward tor Reid
    McVeigh for Jack.
    Last edited by The Big Cat; 24th April 2019 at 10:49 PM.
    Those who have the greatest power to hurt us are those we love.

  3. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    A player, originally taken in the top five in the draft, who's been in the system for around 14 years and has amassed over 300 games, has more poise and skill than a guy who has played under 50 games (and based on the make up of our squad, was likely a late draft pick or rookie pick)?

    Who'd a thunk it?
    My point being Liz is that a player who is likely playing in their final season and is way past their prime should not be an integral player in a team that obviously had finals aspirations leading into the season...

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  4. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by troyjones2525 View Post
    My point being Liz is that a player who is likely playing in their final season and is way past their prime should not be an integral player in a team that obviously had finals aspirations leading into the season...

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    If the player you describe wasn't an integral part of the side, I'd argue he shouldn't be occupying a spot on the list. That would be poor list management.

    McVeigh was retained just because he is still an important part of the side, even more so given how many U24 players we have occupying other "integral to the side" spots on our list. The players who keep playing well into their 30s do so for a reason - that they are very good players.

    Do you reckon Carlton should have ditched Simpson by now? Or do you think that the many young players in the Carlton side might benefit from playing alongside him, learning from him, and looking up to him?

    And for a somewhat different perspective on the comment that McVeigh still being an integral part of our side doesn't reflect well on the younger players in the side, go back and check out posts from 15 years ago, when McVeigh was making his way as a youngster. There were plenty of (unjustifiably, IMO) scathing comments on him as a player. He was drafted in 2002 but took until 2006 before he established himself as an automatic selection in the senior side. (He wasn't part of the 2005 premiership side, and not due to injury.) The likes of Florent, Mills, Papley, Heeney, Hayward et al are miles ahead of where McVeigh was at the same stage of his career (though he was a year younger than most of those when drafted - two years younger than Papley). And those younger players I've mentioned haven't just been getting games in a Carlton-like side, anchored at the bottom of the ladder. They've been earning those game in a side that hasn't missed the finals for close on a decade.

  5. #29
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    A few months ago when we were doing our best 22 for the season, I highlighted in my submission the omissions of McVeigh, Grundy, Jack and Smith, viewing them as depth players this year, even if they were clearly better than players who took their spots. As it turned out, we've had a worse start than expected and the four have contributed little anyway, primarily due to injury.

    So the umbilical cord has been cut by forces outside our control, and there's no point in trying to sew it back together. We are just going to have to fly with they kids we have and see how it goes. It will take some time to find the right combination of players and develop a system they are best suited for.

    It will be a challenge for both the players and the coaches to find their groove. It's not going to be the same groove as we had in 2012, but I hope we can find the commitment to playing hard contested footy for 4 quarters that other teams feared about playing the Swans. That's one thing that we've stood for that shouldn't change with personnel. It's sadly been missing this year.

    We've lost some on-field leaders, like McVeigh, but we still have plenty of others. Players like Lloyd and Cunningham have to fill the void. Mills looks to be a leader type, as does Papley.

    I'm still hopeful that we can find our groove and start playing some decent football. The main thing for me is to improve as the season progresses and finish strongly, then head into 2020 on the upswing and ready to make a good showing in the finals next year.

    I hope we are not bottoming out for some extended period of time. We really shouldn't be. We have a lot of good young players who should be coming into their own and making a real contribution to the team. We just don't know if they are willing to work hard enough to do what it takes to win. Only time will tell.

  6. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    McVeigh was retained just because he is still an important part of the side, even more so given how many U24 players we have occupying other "integral to the side" spots on our list. The players who keep playing well into their 30s do so for a reason - that they are very good players.

    Do you reckon Carlton should have ditched Simpson by now? Or do you think that the many young players in the Carlton side might benefit from playing alongside him, learning from him, and looking up to him?
    Liz, I think your comments very sensible. I don't think McVeigh was retained as a favour, but because he still had a lot to offer, and part of that is experience and what he can model in terms of his calmness on the field and his leadership. At the same time it's true that, for myself, I find an emotional shift towards being less keen on his selection. If memory serves me correctly, in one of Liz's posts a few weeks ago she was critical of the way in which he tried to get a cheap 100 metres: given a 50 metre free, as he ran to the new mark he deliberately left his line to bump into an innocent opposition player, trying to suggest to the ump that he had been impeded and deserved another 50. It wasn't a good look, and it wasn't true sportsmanship. When I saw him play against Carlton, there was a point where the ball went out from an opposition player and McVeigh stretched out his arms, again making a suggestion to the ump: that he be given a free kick for deliberate out of bounds. If he'd been the "offending" player and a free had been awarded against him, he'd have been (rightly) livid. It was, once again, cheap. But it also made me think that, if I were an opposition player, I'd be laughing, because it could so easily be read as "I'm getting older, can't cover the ground as quickly as I once did, and am at the stage where I'll stoop to pleading for cheap frees because I'm not the player I was." McVeigh has been a champion of the club, as well as a captain. Given where we are this season, it would not be wrong to take the longer view and get games into younger players; on the other hand, younger players benefit from on-ground leadership. It's not an easy judgement, but once he recovers - and we all hope that will be as speedily as possible - he shouldn't be an automatic selection.

  7. #31
    My opinion of Macca is that physically he is past it. He really is very slow. But that we haven’t found another player with his calmness under pressure and excellent ball use to replace him.

    Realistically we should by now.

  8. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Markwebbos View Post
    My opinion of Macca is that physically he is past it. He really is very slow. But that we haven’t found another player with his calmness under pressure and excellent ball use to replace him.

    Realistically we should by now.
    Exactly. I still feel that it's an indictment on our list management that McVeigh is still a top 5 or 6 player in our team at this point in his career and not playing O'Riordan regularly is a big part of that considering the similar role he's played in the NEAFL.

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  9. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by troyjones2525 View Post
    Exactly. I still feel that it's an indictment on our list management that McVeigh is still a top 5 or 6 player in our team at this point in his career and not playing O'Riordan regularly is a big part of that considering the similar role he's played in the NEAFL.

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    Luke Hodge, who is older than McVeigh, plays a similar role for Brisbane. Invaluable mentor and picked on merit.

  10. #34
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    If we win the spoon maybe they can put a smaller version with the 2020 Premiership Club pack. Couldn't be worse than the crap binoculars they gifted us this year. At least I could get some use from it in the kitchen. Those binoculars are an insult to our membership.

  11. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nico View Post
    If we win the spoon maybe they can put a smaller version with the 2020 Premiership Club pack. Couldn't be worse than the crap binoculars they gifted us this year. At least I could get some use from it in the kitchen. Those binoculars are an insult to our membership.
    You're right, the binoculars are an embarrassment.

  12. #36
    I didn't get any binoculars... what did I miss?

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