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Thread: #AFL Round 8 Swans vs Dons Fri 10-May at SCG #AFLSwansDons @sydneyswans

  1. #313
    Re: "intention"

    There is a difference between intending an act and intending its outcome. Sometimes, especially when it comes to the AFL Laws, if you intend an act and the outcome is to be expected or foreseeable, you are considered to have intended the result irrespective of whether you actually even thought about it. In the case of Dane and the pole-shaking, I think it's grey and vague what the law means. As it happens, I don't think Dane did in fact intend to shake the post at all. Like stevo, I definitely think he was trying to position himself to spring and touch the ball before it went through if he could. Clearly he didn't know the rule (nor did I) and his action was, anyway, a big brainfart driven, as he said, by his passion for the game. I think it was a common sense outcome although I have some sympathy for outraged Bombers fans.

    RE: "talking like a little girl"

    This is a much more complicated and interesting issue. I think the reason Rampe got a fine was largely a sop to the Bombers who were outraged about losing a close match and the 'missed' free kick for the pole climbing. That said it IS regrettable that Rampe compared the umpire to a 'girl' perjoratively. While, on the one hand, I think it's great that the AFL has intervened and said this is not ok, I don't like that they have made an individual player a scapegoat - although perhaps this was inevitable. Also, the penalty was entirely disproportionate to the 'crime'. Until this season I doubt you would have got in trouble for making this comment at all. That you can now, is positive progress. That Dane said it doesn't so much make me think less of him than of the culture that we are living in. I doubt he's considered the effect of using the word 'girl' in this way at all before and, to his credit, I think he has now and he has apologised.

    My final comment on this topic is taken from a friend. He pointed out to me that an important element has been entirely overlooked in the debate about the 'talk like a girl' comment: not only does using 'girl' perjoratively or as a term of abuse demean women, it also makes it less ok for men to express their more feminine sides. My friend had school time experiences of being called a 'girl' and it has inhibited him from feeling free to engage in behaviours that are less than 'manly'. I think this is an excellent point and I haven't seen it made elsewhere.

  2. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodspirit View Post

    My final comment on this topic is taken from a friend. He pointed out to me that an important element has been entirely overlooked in the debate about the 'talk like a girl' comment: not only does using 'girl' perjoratively or as a term of abuse demean women, it also makes it less ok for men to express their more feminine sides. My friend had school time experiences of being called a 'girl' and it has inhibited him from feeling free to engage in behaviours that are less than 'manly'. I think this is an excellent point and I haven't seen it made elsewhere.
    As a woman (in case you hadn't guessed) I actually thought the element of demeaning women was somewhat overplayed in this instance. The comment came in the context of Rampe complaining he hadn't heard the play on call. It's a fact that girls have higher pitched and softer voices than burly umpires. I didn't see it as derogatory to make that observation. Having a high or soft voice is neither a good thing nor a bad thing. It just is. I did think it was a bit petulant towards the umpire, though, and not necessary. He has a bit of form in this department - remember the "coffee with Gil" comment he made last season. I know we laughed at the time, but it showed disrespect towards the umpire.

    Half the issue is having the umpires miked up. I am sure umpires have been on the receiving end of far more abusive comments in the past, and to an extent they need to have thick skins and understand players get frustrated. But players now have to understand that anything they say will be heard by anyone watching the game on TV.

  3. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    As a woman (in case you hadn't guessed) I actually thought the element of demeaning women was somewhat overplayed in this instance. The comment came in the context of Rampe complaining he hadn't heard the play on call. It's a fact that girls have higher pitched and softer voices than burly umpires. I didn't see it as derogatory to make that observation. Having a high or soft voice is neither a good thing nor a bad thing. It just is. I did think it was a bit petulant towards the umpire, though, and not necessary. He has a bit of form in this department - remember the "coffee with Gil" comment he made last season. I know we laughed at the time, but it showed disrespect towards the umpire.

    Half the issue is having the umpires miked up. I am sure umpires have been on the receiving end of far more abusive comments in the past, and to an extent they need to have thick skins and understand players get frustrated. But players now have to understand that anything they say will be heard by anyone watching the game on TV.


    You are 100% correct. Not only microphones but they have to be aware of comments made on social media.

  4. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by chalbilto View Post

    You are 100% correct. Not only microphones but they have to be aware of comments made on social media.
    Absolutely. Though they are a bit different because they aren't (or shouldn't be) said in the heat of a frustrated moment. If players do post on social media without putting their brains into gear first, they are likely to get themselves into trouble (as is anyone else). I have a little more sympathy for tired players out on the ground who are frustrated at their opponent getting a free kick, even if it's there.

  5. #317
    Revisor of revisionisms Ruck'n'Roll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattW View Post
    Me neither. Whateley's credibility has fallen away working in commercial media.
    What credibility? He wrote a biography of a horse.
    I'd love for someone to explain why the 150th anniversary of Red and White Footy was ignored by both the club and it's fanbase in 2017

  6. #318
    Senior Player dejavoodoo44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blood Fever View Post
    Sold his soul to the devil
    Or maybe Stockholm Syndrome? Sometimes I think there's an epidemic.

  7. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    As a woman (in case you hadn't guessed) I actually thought the element of demeaning women was somewhat overplayed in this instance. The comment came in the context of Rampe complaining he hadn't heard the play on call. It's a fact that girls have higher pitched and softer voices than burly umpires. I didn't see it as derogatory to make that observation. Having a high or soft voice is neither a good thing nor a bad thing. It just is. I did think it was a bit petulant towards the umpire, though, and not necessary. He has a bit of form in this department - remember the "coffee with Gil" comment he made last season. I know we laughed at the time, but it showed disrespect towards the umpire.

    Half the issue is having the umpires miked up. I am sure umpires have been on the receiving end of far more abusive comments in the past, and to an extent they need to have thick skins and understand players get frustrated. But players now have to understand that anything they say will be heard by anyone watching the game on TV.
    Indeed, the 'coffee with Gil' line was delivered to the same umpire. Dane got some media props for the coffee line; I've pondered that he might have been trying to repeat the experience, but misjudged it.

  8. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck'n'Roll View Post
    What credibility? He wrote a biography of a horse.
    Ha, yes.

    I think his game commentary is (or at least was, I can't listen to the ads now) excellent. I also think he hosted an excellent Saturday AFL discussion show on the ABC and generally did a good job facilitating discussion on Offsiders.

    I have listened to/watched him in all of his present commercial media platforms and can't keep with it. I think he's succumbed to the boys club.

  9. #321
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    afl 360 gone backwards. Robbo should be shown the doors (as he was on sen) and gerrard lost since moving from abc.

  10. #322
    Case closed.

    This is what umpire Chamberlain told Gerard Whateley.

    Category: | Herald Sun

    “I don’t think (Rampe) intentionally shook the post. I don’t know what he was trying to do but I don’t think he was trying to shake the post because he would have shaken the bejesus out of it...

    The question has remained unanswered over what would actually happen if another player in 2019 attempted to climb the post, but Chamberlain revealed that incredibly, a free kick would still likely not be paid in the same circumstance.

    “The clear instruction is if you see a player climb the post, but not shaking the bejesus out of it, you would instruct that player to get off post and then if they fail to follow that instruction to get down you pay a free kick on the goal line,” he said on Whateley.

  11. #323
    Agree. Heard that Chamberlain interview with Whateley today. However the likes of Whateley are making the assumption Rampe intended to the shake the goalpost when he climbed it because it shook slightly as a result. That equals to guilt in their books, without taking into consideration Rampe got down soon as he was intructed by the umpire to do so and the fact it had no bearing on Myers kick whatsoever being out of range. All other INTENATIONAL goal shaking incidents in the past ALL occurred when player was having set shot at close range.

  12. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by KSAS View Post
    Agree. Heard that Chamberlain interview with Whateley today. However the likes of Whateley are making the assumption Rampe intended to the shake the goalpost when he climbed it because it shook slightly as a result. That equals to guilt in their books, without taking into consideration Rampe got down soon as he was intructed by the umpire to do so and the fact it had no bearing on Myers kick whatsoever being out of range. All other INTENATIONAL goal shaking incidents in the past ALL occurred when player was having set shot at close range.
    I say again: Whateley and Robinson should get a life. Ridiculous obsession with a trivial event while Fyffe, Mumford etc escape sanction.

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