Injury management

[Ralph Dawg]

When Cal did his shoulder, I defended the medical staff. As I said at the time, these guys are highly qualified, motivated health professionals who are passionate about their jobs.
I have subsequently discussed his injury with 2 prominent shoulder surgeons, one who has worked with Canadian Ice Hockey and Gridiron teams as their orthopaedic surgeon. Both have said the decision to send Cal back out, on face value, after his first dislocation was unusual. They both couldn't think of any reason to send him back out in the particular context of the game. Grand Final yes. Match against team coming last with so much of a regular season left - definite no. I posed the argument that he couldn't do anymore damage after the first dislocation and both just laughed at the suggestion. In their experiences (combined > 30 years), both said he was at high risk to further damage the shoulder. They felt that any chance he had of returning this season, would've been significantly reduced by the second dislocation.
Now my disclaimer to the above is that none of us know the full story or Cal's medical history. In short we weren't there and thus have not spoken to him or had the chance to examine the injury. But coupled with the latest set backs to Macca and Harry, Smith's inability to recover from his hamstring, Reynolds barely playing, Darcy re injuring his quad, Buddy, Sam, AJ and Hanners on going issues, I do find it all a bit perplexing.

[caj23]

Great post Ralph, I was considering starting a similar thread myself.

I understand that every team has injuries, its the nature of the game, but from an unqualified outsiders perspective there just seem to be so many missteps in this area at our club in recent seasons.

In addition to the players you listed, there's also Ling and Durack Tucker who have barely been on the park in their time at the Swans.

Naismith and Tucker have lost 2 full seasons on knee reconstructions in an age when players are getting back on the park faster than ever

[Ludwig]

Great post Ralph, I was considering starting a similar thread myself.

I understand that every team has injuries, its the nature of the game, but from an unqualified outsiders perspective there just seem to be so many missteps in this area at our club in recent seasons.

In addition to the players you listed, there's also Ling and Durack Tucker who have barely been on the park in their time at the Swans.

Naismith and Tucker have lost 2 full seasons on knee reconstructions in an age when players are getting back on the park faster than ever

I wasn't expecting Naismith to return at all this year, so he's done better than I expected. Although he's missed nearly 2 full seasons, ACL injuries seem to take longer to recover for AFL than other sports and this seems especially true for big men (think NicNat).

The situation with Ling seems just a case of bad luck, having a couple of injuries that can been played through when not too serious, but often end in surgery. In Ling's case, he had the turf toe (ligament injury) last year and a plantaris tendon injury this year. Evidence would suggest that he was allowed to play with these injuries until the medicos decided that he wasn't going to recover without surgery. If you look through team lists, you will find lots of cases where players go through several years suffering a variety of injuries. I'm very disappointed with Ling's situation and hope his luck changes. I don't want to regret for the next 10 years not taking Ed Richards in the draft

Tucker was recovering from an ACL injury from last year and I think he was near the end of his rehab when he had a serious hamstring injury. The club has released nearly no news on Tucker all year, nor could I find any news articles about it. Sometimes local papers report of these things and you can get more information than you do from the club. We probably won't hear anything until the end of the season when a decision is made to either delist him or extend his contract another year.

[barry]

Well done Ralph in getting expert opinion. It drives me made the blind faith some on here have.

Not to derail the thread, but how many times have we heard "I have faith in the list management team", and even after Mitchel, Dunkley, and 13th on the ladder and others, they still have blind unquestionable faith. No evidence will away them.

[jono2707]

I agree that there appear to be some issues, particularly considering Harry and Macca both went down this week with very similar injuries that they'd supposedly just recovered from.

[rb4x]

I don't think our management of injuries has been optimum since Dave Misson left as High Performance Manager at the end of 2007. He is leaving Melbourne to go to Canada at the end of this year. I cannot say whether the implosion of the Demons this year is at all related. Maybe drawing a long bow but I rated Dave Misson as being the best in the business.

[goswannies]

Ralph D, I’m pleased that you discussed it. I think I might have been an early poster after the injury - not deriding our medical staff - but expressing my concern, particularly in light of non-elite athletes using this management as an example. I have spoken to a couple of surgeons who concur with those that you have spoken to.
I always premise medical posts with I have no insider knowledge of specific incidents, and I am also a little more conservative as I tend to holistically consider the long term big picture.

[MattW]

Hey goswannies, are you able to assist with some indication of how Franklin's hamstring injury could have developed into complications with his sciatic nerve? See here: Franklin aims for return in 2019 - sydneyswans.com.au.

How might a sciatic nerve be treated? What can we infer from this complication? Is it likely to have lasting effects? Thanks!

[S.S. Bleeder]

I don't think our management of injuries has been optimum since Dave Misson left as High Performance Manager at the end of 2007. He is leaving Melbourne to go to Canada at the end of this year. I cannot say whether the implosion of the Demons this year is at all related. Maybe drawing a long bow but I rated Dave Misson as being the best in the business.

+1

[dejavoodoo44]

Hey goswannies, are you able to assist with some indication of how Franklin's hamstring injury could have developed into complications with his sciatic nerve? See here: Franklin aims for return in 2019 - sydneyswans.com.au.

How might a sciatic nerve be treated? What can we infer from this complication? Is it likely to have lasting effects? Thanks!

Even though gs could obviously provide a much more professional answer, than my semi-educated opinion, I might have a go at some of that question.
It's probably worth briefly describing what sciatica is. Usually its main symptom is nerve pain, that seems to arise chiefly from the back of the thigh. Though it's generally not caused by thigh damage. Instead it is caused by damage to, or misalignment of, the lumbar area of the spine; where the root of the sciatic nerve is situated. This means that there is pressure on the nerve and the sensory transmission to the brain is interfered with. Because the main sensory area of the sciatic nerve is the posterior thigh and not the spine, the brain then mistakenly believes that the problem originates in the thigh. The sciatic nerve also innervates the muscles of the posterior thigh. For example, nerve impulses that stimulate the contraction of the hamstring, are delivered by the sciatic nerve.

So, anyway, I think it's possible hamstring damage can contribute to sciatica; and vice versa. I suspect that the main way it could contribute, is that with hamstring damage, the person is not going to be walking normally. Instead, they're likely to have an unbalanced stride, which could contribute to a misalignment, which in turn pressures the sciatic nerve. I guess that it could work the other way. With sciatica, the person may not be getting accurate information about what the hamstring is doing and/or there is erratic innervation of the muscle. If this means that the hamstring is not functioning correctly, then this could lead to a strain?

As far as treatment goes, I really don't know.

[Ralph Dawg]

Even though gs could obviously provide a much more professional answer, than my semi-educated opinion, I might have a go at some of that question.
It's probably worth briefly describing what sciatica is. Usually its main symptom is nerve pain, that seems to arise chiefly from the back of the thigh. Though it's generally not caused by thigh damage. Instead it is caused by damage to, or misalignment of, the lumbar area of the spine; where the root of the sciatic nerve is situated. This means that there is pressure on the nerve and the sensory transmission to the brain is interfered with. Because the main sensory area of the sciatic nerve is the posterior thigh and not the spine, the brain then mistakenly believes that the problem originates in the thigh. The sciatic nerve also innervates the muscles of the posterior thigh. For example, nerve impulses that stimulate the contraction of the hamstring, are delivered by the sciatic nerve.

So, anyway, I think it's possible hamstring damage can contribute to sciatica; and vice versa. I suspect that the main way it could contribute, is that with hamstring damage, the person is not going to be walking normally. Instead, they're likely to have an unbalanced stride, which could contribute to a misalignment, which in turn pressures the sciatic nerve. I guess that it could work the other way. With sciatica, the person may not be getting accurate information about what the hamstring is doing and/or there is erratic innervation of the muscle. If this means that the hamstring is not functioning correctly, then this could lead to a strain?

As far as treatment goes, I really don't know.

Has Buddy had low back issues in the past? Certainly if he has, then this is a very plausible situation and also of concern for his ability to string together games and also his longevity.

[Mel_C]

Has Buddy had low back issues in the past? Certainly if he has, then this is a very plausible situation and also of concern for his ability to string together games and also his longevity.

Yes I remember he had back issues towards the end of 2015.

I have had sciatica and it is very very painful 😞. Lots of physio and exercises to correct it.