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Thread: #AFL Finals Week 1 weekly discussion thread

  1. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by KTigers View Post
    The interesting thing to me was in the R22 game at Giants Stadium between GWS & the Bulldogs, the free kick count was 17-5 in the Bulldogs
    favour. Yes, the Dogs gave away 5 free kicks in an entire game of footy according to the umpires. Seems unimaginable how that is even possible.
    On Saturday the free kick count was 34-28 in the Dogs favour. So what happened to the Dogs game style in the space of three weeks to
    mean they gave away almost six times as many free kicks?. As is well known it was a physical game, but it was GWS doing the roughing
    up and applying relentless pressure. So you can see how they might give away some more free kicks than usual. But the Dogs total was also
    very high, 28, up from 5 three weeks earlier. Did they start unravelling because of the pressure from GWS? or something seriously wrong
    with the umpiring in R22? Five free kicks in an entire game!
    Why do you think that happened?

  2. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloods05 View Post
    Why do you think that happened?
    I don't think the umpires are inherently biased. I think the bulk of them take their job pretty seriously. It's a craft that a person
    can get good at with experience, and some are better than others. There will be good umpires, average ones and poor ones.
    Just like in any profession. If they are not full time umpires, it will be harder for them to get better at it. Same as any job.
    I think they are influenced by the crowd noise. They need to try harder or be better trained to be not influenced by it. I think
    the umpires benefit a bit from the AFL being very unwilling to criticise them. Having said that though, we as fans, don't really
    know what the internal review process is. But they are employees of the AFL, and it will be the AFL that will decide on the tenure of
    their employment, not the fans. But I still believe umpires are a bit of a protected species because presumably the AFL is
    worried about the numbers coming up through the ranks and they don't want experienced people leaving the game. That part
    is understandable.
    There is something about the Dogs playing style and the umpires perceptions of it that has resulted in them benefitting from
    some fairly substantial free kick differentials for awhile now. The free kick differential can't be put down to crowd noise like with
    West Coast, because the Dogs just don't play in games where the crowd is almost entirely their own fans. Besides, they don't have
    a lot of fans anyway. I always wondered why no one has really looked closely at their playing style. I've noticed they drop the
    ball when tackled, but don't understand why they aren't pinged for incorrect disposal. Possibly someone needs to look at
    the handpassing style that involves both hands moving at the same speed. Not sure how you can punch the ball when both your
    hands are moving at the same speed. I'm curious why that isn't deemed a two handed throw. These are just a couple things.
    Clearly something is going on that is different to way other teams play.
    Last edited by KTigers; 10th September 2019 at 06:00 PM.

  3. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by KTigers View Post
    I don't think the umpires are inherently biased. I think the bulk of them take their job pretty seriously. It's a craft that a person
    can get good at with experience, and some are better than others. There will be good umpires, average ones and poor ones.
    Just like in any profession. If they are not full time umpires, it will be harder for them to get better at it. Same as any job.
    I think they are influenced by the crowd noise. They need to try harder or be better trained to be not influenced by it. I think
    the umpires benefit a bit from the AFL being very unwilling to criticise them.
    They are a bit of a protected species because presumably the AFL is worried about the numbers coming up through the
    ranks and they don't want experienced people leaving the game. That part is understandable.
    There is something about the Dogs playing style and the umpires perceptions of it that has resulted in them benefitting from
    some fairly substantial free kick differentials for awhile now. The free kick differential can't be put down to crowd noise like with
    West Coast, because the Dogs just don't play in games where the crowd is almost entirely their own fans. Besides, they don't have
    a lot of fans anyway. I always wondered why no one has really looked closely at their playing style. I've noticed they drop the
    ball when tackled, but don't understand why they aren't pinged for incorrect disposal. Possibly someone needs to look at
    the handpassing style that involves both hands moving at the same speed. Not sure how you can punch the ball when both your
    hands are moving at the same speed. I'm curious why that isn't deemed a two handed throw. These are just a couple things.
    Clearly something is going on that is different to way other teams play.
    That's a thoughtful answer. Plenty to think about there.

  4. #160
    What is more likely:
    A) the Bulldogs have developed techniques which avoid free kicks and no other team has been able to copy.
    B) the umpires have a bias against certain other teams.

    If it quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
    Bias festering on the scab of unaccoutability.

    In a fair workplace, the umps of the 2016 GF would never umpire a final again.

  5. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    Bont wasn't hurt, so hard to mount a case for a suspension, which seems to be the way these days that the punishment matches the victim.

    But really, why was bont allowed to play anyway. That's the real issue with the tribunal.
    I agree that Bont shouldn't have been playing after injuring the GWS player the other week. If I recall correctly, when the MRO was reviewing the incident he didn't have the medical report from GWS. As soon as the report was made available then the incident should have been reviewed again.
    Quote Originally Posted by KTigers View Post
    I read somewhere no player has been suspended for anything since July....
    Dawson was suspended which I'm still annoyed about after seeing the recent decisions!

  6. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Mel_C View Post
    I agree that Bont shouldn't have been playing after injuring the GWS player the other week. If I recall correctly, when the MRO was reviewing the incident he didn't have the medical report from GWS. As soon as the report was made available then the incident should have been reviewed again.

    Dawson was suspended which I'm still annoyed about after seeing the recent decisions!
    It's become so opaque and arcane it's impossible even to guess what a sanction is likely to be. This makes it fertile ground for the conspiracy-mongers.

  7. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by KTigers View Post
    I always wondered why no one has really looked closely at their playing style. I've noticed they drop the
    ball when tackled, but don't understand why they aren't pinged for incorrect disposal. Possibly someone needs to look at
    the handpassing style that involves both hands moving at the same speed. Not sure how you can punch the ball when both your
    hands are moving at the same speed. I'm curious why that isn't deemed a two handed throw. These are just a couple things.
    Clearly something is going on that is different to way other teams play.
    Lots of good thoughts there.

    I think a lot of players get away with a handball action that's closer to a throw than a punch. So long as there's a moving closed fist, umpires at a distance can't judge the force and just have to assume a handball.

    The thing that annoyed me most about the 2016 Dogs was that they were clearly trying to hide throws by doing them backwards between the legs. I assume that this was coached and based on the observation that umpires can't penalise what they can't see. They seem to do it less now, so maybe umpires are on to that tactic.

    I agree that umpires are unlikely to be inherently biased and most do their best, even if that isn't always great. I think a lot of the criticism stems from technology and media. On TV we see every play replayed multiple times, from multiple angles, in super slow motion, discussed for days afterwards. An umpire sees it once, in a half second, from a distance and often obscured. They have to call it as they see it and move on.

    In fact for that reason I sometimes think we need less technology - maybe even none - rather than more. Just accept that the game is adjudicated by as well as played by humans, and that humans sometimes make mistakes, and that bad umpiring has a tiny effect on the game compared with good playing.

  8. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    What is more likely:
    A) the Bulldogs have developed techniques which avoid free kicks and no other team has been able to copy.
    B) the umpires have a bias against certain other teams.

    If it quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
    Bias festering on the scab of unaccoutability.

    In a fair workplace, the umps of the 2016 GF would never umpire a final again.
    I agree with this entirely.....

  9. #165
    Interesting stat for 2019

    This season Geelong is the best ground ball forward 50 contested possession team but also the best ever in this stat being recorded

    I wonder how this flows onto higher scoring probability?

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