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Thread: Pre-season 2020

  1. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by caj23 View Post
    Care to show me the stats

    He’s a good ordinary back man at best.

    Yes he goes in hard, but he’s outmarked too often by the 3rd talls that Longmire plays him on, and his disposal isn’t good enough for quality transition out of defence.

    if I had to pick a team to play a game tomorrow there’s at least 50-60 defenders in the league I’d pick before him which hardly screams elite to me

    FWIW I think he’s being played out of position and would be better as an inside mid, but that is clearly not going to happen while Longmire is coach
    I call BS. Name those 50-60 defenders.

  2. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by caj23 View Post
    Care to show me the stats

    He’s a good ordinary back man at best.

    Yes he goes in hard, but he’s outmarked too often by the 3rd talls that Longmire plays him on, and his disposal isn’t good enough for quality transition out of defence.

    if I had to pick a team to play a game tomorrow there’s at least 50-60 defenders in the league I’d pick before him which hardly screams elite to me

    FWIW I think he’s being played out of position and would be better as an inside mid, but that is clearly not going to happen while Longmire is coach
    I think you are engaging in a bit of hyperbole by stating that there are 50 - 60 defenders you would pick before Cal. Statically he would be better than many and I suspect if you spoke to his team mates and the staff, they actually wouldn't swap him for too many.

    I suspect he disappoints us at times because he doesn't influence games to the degree many supporters expect of a high draft pick. But I do feel that if you don't view his contribution to the team through the prism of his draft position, he's actually a very solid AFL defender. I do feel though that 2020 and 2021 will determine whether he really will make the jump to elite status or not.

  3. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puppy Eyes View Post
    I call BS. Name those 50-60 defenders.
    Lloyd, Houli, Hurn, Z Williams, Daniel, Stewart, Rampe, Laird, Rich, L Ryan, Sicily, Vlaustin, Crisp, B Smith, McGovern, Haynes, Johannisen, Edwards, Andrews, Shaw, Tarrant, Saad, Simpson, Hooker, Docherty, Hartlett, Hurley, Howe, Davis, Allir, Hanley, Harbrow, Jonas, Burgoyne, Keath, Moore, Langodn, Impey, Grimes, Battle, Tuohey, Taylor, Lever, May, Jetta L, Talia, N Wilson, Astbury, Hibberd, Hamling, Daw, Carliisle, Adams, Doedee, Roberton, Jetta N, Stratton

  4. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by caj23 View Post
    Care to show me the stats

    He’s a good ordinary back man at best.

    Yes he goes in hard, but he’s outmarked too often by the 3rd talls that Longmire plays him on, and his disposal isn’t good enough for quality transition out of defence.

    if I had to pick a team to play a game tomorrow there’s at least 50-60 defenders in the league I’d pick before him which hardly screams elite to me

    FWIW I think he’s being played out of position and would be better as an inside mid, but that is clearly not going to happen while Longmire is coach
    Quote Originally Posted by caj23 View Post
    Lloyd, Houli, Hurn, Z Williams, Daniel, Stewart, Rampe, Laird, Rich, L Ryan, Sicily, Vlaustin, Crisp, B Smith, McGovern, Haynes, Johannisen, Edwards, Andrews, Shaw, Tarrant, Saad, Simpson, Hooker, Docherty, Hartlett, Hurley, Howe, Davis, Allir, Hanley, Harbrow, Jonas, Burgoyne, Keath, Moore, Langodn, Impey, Grimes, Battle, Tuohey, Taylor, Lever, May, Jetta L, Talia, N Wilson, Astbury, Hibberd, Hamling, Daw, Carliisle, Adams, Doedee, Roberton, Jetta N, Stratton
    Nice effort. Still, I'm with the others that think you're underrating Mills. First, I note your list includes mostly players that play a different role to the one Mills generally plays - so not a like for like comparison. Apart from that, I would rate Mills ahead of or on a par with many of those you have listed. Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

  5. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodspirit View Post
    Nice effort. Still, I'm with the others that think you're underrating Mills. First, I note your list includes mostly players that play a different role to the one Mills generally plays - so not a like for like comparison. Apart from that, I would rate Mills ahead of or on a par with many of those you have listed. Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
    I don't think any impartial observer would rate him higher than anyone in the first line, there may be a dozen debatable in the next 2 lines. As for positions, if you take a look at the list there's really not many true KPD's in existence anymore, and the quality ones are capable of spending time on talls, mediums or smalls.

    As for the stats that Ralph and wolftone have spouted, I note that they have failed to materialise

    FWIW I'm not underrating him, I just think he's being misused

    In any event I could continue to argue my point but it would be a waste of time as some on here view AFL with red and white glasses. Whilst its nice that they view the club and its players with such passion (as do I), its simply not the realistic

  6. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj23 View Post
    I don't think any impartial observer would rate him higher than anyone in the first line, there may be a dozen debatable in the next 2 lines. As for positions, if you take a look at the list there's really not many true KPD's in existence anymore, and the quality ones are capable of spending time on talls, mediums or smalls.

    As for the stats that Ralph and wolftone have spouted, I note that they have failed to materialise

    FWIW I'm not underrating him, I just think he's being misused

    In any event I could continue to argue my point but it would be a waste of time as some on here view AFL with red and white glasses. Whilst its nice that they view the club and its players with such passion (as do I), its simply not the realistic
    Fair comment but there are also some on here who judge Swans players too harshly which to others is simply not realistic as well.

  7. #463
    Is it also possible that some people are blinkered by the position someone was drafted at and where they played as a 17yr old?

  8. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj23 View Post
    Care to show me the stats

    He’s a good ordinary back man at best.

    Yes he goes in hard, but he’s outmarked too often by the 3rd talls that Longmire plays him on, and his disposal isn’t good enough for quality transition out of defence.

    if I had to pick a team to play a game tomorrow there’s at least 50-60 defenders in the league I’d pick before him which hardly screams elite to me

    FWIW I think he’s being played out of position and would be better as an inside mid, but that is clearly not going to happen while Longmire is coach

    Career Season Averages
    Year Team GM K H D M G B T HO FF FA GA I50 CL CG R50 BL
    2019 Swans 22 10.5 7.9 18.4 6.2 0.1 0 2.6 0 0.3 0.6 0.1 0.9 0.4 2.3 3.6
    2018 Swans 9 11.2 8.0 19.2 4.9 0 0.1 2.6 0 1.6 0.7 0.2 1.3 0.7 1.6 3.7 0.33
    2017 Swans 24 11.1 6.2 17.3 5.0 0 0.1 2.5 0 0.8 0.6 0.1 1.9 0.8 2.0 2.8
    2016 Swans 22 10.5 8.1 18.6 4.8 0.1 0.1 2.3 0 0.5 0.6 0.2 1.6 0.4 2.3 3.4
    Career 77 10.8 7.4 18.2 5.3 0 0.1 2.5 0 0.6 0.6 0.2 1.5 0.6 2.1 3.3 0.04
    Rising Star Years Statistical Rankings
    ● 2nd among rising stars in Total Kicks in 2016 ● 3rd among rising stars in Total Handballs in 2016
    ● 3rd among rising stars in Total Disposals in 2016 ● 2nd among rising stars in Total Marks in 2016
    ● 2nd among rising stars in Total Supercoach Score in 2016 ● 2nd among rising stars in Total AFL Fantasy Score in 2016
    ● 4th among rising stars in Total Contested Possessions in 2016 ● 2nd among rising stars in Total Uncontested Possessions in 2016
    ● 2nd among rising stars in Total Effective Disposals in 2016 ● 2nd among rising stars in Total Clangers in 2016
    ● 1st among rising stars in Total Rebound 50s in 2016 ● 2nd among rising stars in Total Time On Ground % in 2016
    ● 3rd among rising stars in Total Metres Gained in 2016 ● 1st among rising stars in Total Turnovers in 2016
    ● 1st among rising stars in Total Intercepts in 2016 ● 5th among rising stars in Kicks Per Game in 2016
    ● 5th among rising stars in Disposals Per Game in 2016 ● 3rd among rising stars in Supercoach Score Per Game in 2016
    ● 4th among rising stars in Uncontested Possessions Per Game in 2016 ● 5th among rising stars in Effective Disposals Per Game in 2016
    ● 1st among rising stars in Rebound 50s Per Game in 2016 ● 5th among rising stars in Metres Gained Per Game in 2016
    ● 1st among rising stars in Turnovers Per Game in 2016 ● 1st among rising stars in Intercepts Per Game in 2016
    Footywire.com © 2020 about terms privacy contact us


    A stat in there you need to look at. You stated he has too many clangers, bad kicks. He is 0.60 for Clangers. He Averages 18.5 disposals that means about 1 poor disposal per game. He also averages 5.3 marks per game, mostly intercepts. He should not play on the third tall anyway as he is not tall or heavy enough. what's more he is not that sort of player to shut down the talls. Better on a medium or smaller forward where his marking and intercept skills can be highlighted. The only place that slightly lets him down is tackles. He only averages 2.5. but that may be because of his position as mids tend to get far more tackle stats than any other players. Backs tend to get more spoils, of which he does very well. He also averages 5.3 contested possessions per game. He has a DE of 78.9. The only thing to let him down is turnovers where he averages 3.5, although most of the back six average about the same due to the quick kick out of defence. So all in all he seems, from the stats to be either in the elite class or quite close.

  9. #465
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    Blurb on the club website that Naismith aaaaaaaand, wait for it, Ling are in full training and playing. Happy days!

    Mills, IMO is close to elite, fantastic reader of the play, thanks for the stats analysis Wolfie

  10. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolftone57 View Post
    Career Season Averages
    Year Team GM K H D M G B T HO FF FA GA I50 CL CG R50 BL
    2019 Swans 22 10.5 7.9 18.4 6.2 0.1 0 2.6 0 0.3 0.6 0.1 0.9 0.4 2.3 3.6
    2018 Swans 9 11.2 8.0 19.2 4.9 0 0.1 2.6 0 1.6 0.7 0.2 1.3 0.7 1.6 3.7 0.33
    2017 Swans 24 11.1 6.2 17.3 5.0 0 0.1 2.5 0 0.8 0.6 0.1 1.9 0.8 2.0 2.8
    2016 Swans 22 10.5 8.1 18.6 4.8 0.1 0.1 2.3 0 0.5 0.6 0.2 1.6 0.4 2.3 3.4
    Career 77 10.8 7.4 18.2 5.3 0 0.1 2.5 0 0.6 0.6 0.2 1.5 0.6 2.1 3.3 0.04
    Rising Star Years Statistical Rankings
    ● 2nd among rising stars in Total Kicks in 2016 ● 3rd among rising stars in Total Handballs in 2016
    ● 3rd among rising stars in Total Disposals in 2016 ● 2nd among rising stars in Total Marks in 2016
    ● 2nd among rising stars in Total Supercoach Score in 2016 ● 2nd among rising stars in Total AFL Fantasy Score in 2016
    ● 4th among rising stars in Total Contested Possessions in 2016 ● 2nd among rising stars in Total Uncontested Possessions in 2016
    ● 2nd among rising stars in Total Effective Disposals in 2016 ● 2nd among rising stars in Total Clangers in 2016
    ● 1st among rising stars in Total Rebound 50s in 2016 ● 2nd among rising stars in Total Time On Ground % in 2016
    ● 3rd among rising stars in Total Metres Gained in 2016 ● 1st among rising stars in Total Turnovers in 2016
    ● 1st among rising stars in Total Intercepts in 2016 ● 5th among rising stars in Kicks Per Game in 2016
    ● 5th among rising stars in Disposals Per Game in 2016 ● 3rd among rising stars in Supercoach Score Per Game in 2016
    ● 4th among rising stars in Uncontested Possessions Per Game in 2016 ● 5th among rising stars in Effective Disposals Per Game in 2016
    ● 1st among rising stars in Rebound 50s Per Game in 2016 ● 5th among rising stars in Metres Gained Per Game in 2016
    ● 1st among rising stars in Turnovers Per Game in 2016 ● 1st among rising stars in Intercepts Per Game in 2016
    Footywire.com © 2020 about terms privacy contact us


    A stat in there you need to look at. You stated he has too many clangers, bad kicks. He is 0.60 for Clangers. He Averages 18.5 disposals that means about 1 poor disposal per game. He also averages 5.3 marks per game, mostly intercepts. He should not play on the third tall anyway as he is not tall or heavy enough. what's more he is not that sort of player to shut down the talls. Better on a medium or smaller forward where his marking and intercept skills can be highlighted. The only place that slightly lets him down is tackles. He only averages 2.5. but that may be because of his position as mids tend to get far more tackle stats than any other players. Backs tend to get more spoils, of which he does very well. He also averages 5.3 contested possessions per game. He has a DE of 78.9. The only thing to let him down is turnovers where he averages 3.5, although most of the back six average about the same due to the quick kick out of defence. So all in all he seems, from the stats to be either in the elite class or quite close.
    So your saying he was elite 4 seasons ago compared to 21 of his peers, that’s hardly a ringing endorsement. Lewis Taylor was in the same position and just spent the year in the NEAFL before being traded to us

    I do however agree with most of your analysis of his game but still don’t consider him any where near an elite defender

    Again I’m not attacking him as I don’t feel he is in his best position

  11. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj23 View Post
    Lloyd, Houli, Hurn, Z Williams, Daniel, Stewart, Rampe, Laird, Rich, L Ryan, Sicily, Vlaustin, Crisp, B Smith, McGovern, Haynes, Johannisen, Edwards, Andrews, Shaw, Tarrant, Saad, Simpson, Hooker, Docherty, Hartlett, Hurley, Howe, Davis, Allir, Hanley, Harbrow, Jonas, Burgoyne, Keath, Moore, Langodn, Impey, Grimes, Battle, Tuohey, Taylor, Lever, May, Jetta L, Talia, N Wilson, Astbury, Hibberd, Hamling, Daw, Carliisle, Adams, Doedee, Roberton, Jetta N, Stratton
    Nice effort to compile a list of defenders names but a fail when considering the brief.

    Maybe a third could be considered better, maybe a third line ball and maybe a third worse. He's courageous, he's clever and he's gaining cool under pressure with each season. Add to that his ability to organise the defence, McVeigh style and he's more important than you credit him.....or is that discredit?

  12. #468
    Today is the day the club will be conducting lots of community camps and meet and greets, particularly in bushfire affected areas: Swans set to ramp up bushfire-relief efforts. Please send in reports of any illuminating chats with players or other juicy tidbits.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Today is the day the club will be conducting lots of community camps and meet and greets, particularly in bushfire affected areas: Swans set to ramp up bushfire-relief efforts. Please send in reports of any illuminating chats with players or other juicy tidbits.

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