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Thread: 2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

  1. #805
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post
    Disagree about recruiting Sier, or any midfielder for that matter.

    It's not quite evident now, because we have so many young players, but we really have an excess of midfielders, whether you call them inside, outside, on-ballers, or whatever. It will be hard to keep all the midfielders we want who are presently on our list for lack of spots, which will be even more the case once Campbell and Gulden are added this draft.

    The only way to get a handle on this is to go through the list and slot in the players you think will be in our best 22 in 2022. You can even leave out JPK. You will likely find that there are more than just a handful of players you think will be in the 22 but are not. I have at least 10. They include players like Ling, Stoddart, McInerney, Warner, COR, Campbell, Gulden, Wicks, Ronke, just to name a few. There are more. Maybe not everyone rates them as potential best 22, but I think most of them should fight for selection.

    What we need most is someone who can play ruck or forward/ruck, like a healthy Daniher, or Peter Wright, or Preuss or Chol. All the other positions are well covered.
    Where we are struggling is in effective clearances. Even though the numbers might suggest we're holding our own, watching every game of late shows we lack time and space in tight. The young bodies are just getting out muscled.
    Now the question is how long do we give it? I can't see this really improving significantly for a couple of years. In the meantime, out young mids just get beaten up.
    I recognise we have drafted alot of midfielders or guys who can run through there. But on analysis, I think they're all similar. Around 180cm (or less), 80kg and young. KB has picked them because he feels the game is going in the way of all mids being hybrids. On watching us over the last couple of years, I would in part disagree with this. We still need some older, bigger bodies in the midfield to have any hope of clearing the congestion. Our best games in recent memory have been when JPK and Parks have dominated in tight.
    In short, if we have to delist some of our skinny youngsters to get a couple of bigger bodies in, then so be it. I do agree that a youngish ruck / forward would be handy too.

  2. #806
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    I think the thing is that we lack big bodied midfielders, Sier fits the bill to replace JK. No one else does.I'm not arguing that we don't need a good ruck, but there is a need for the big bodied mid as well.
    We have them where we want them, everything is going according to plan!

  3. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Dawg View Post
    What would a guy like Sier be worth? Could we split pick 2, get Sier, use the rest on gulden and Campbell so as not to go into deficit? Or trade pick 2 to Melbourne for one of their inside mids (Oliver or Brayshaw?). Just feel we need someone else in the guts to support the young guys.
    We are not splitting pick 2, it will nett us the best mid in this years draft or the WA KPF who is playing really well at WAFL senior level as an 18yo, looks a talent. Pick 2 is a great pick to have as the Crows seem almost certain to take local lad Tilthorpe meaning we get the pick of the draft. Think I typed that earlier?

    A guy like Sier who is just a fringe player at the Pies would be done with 2021 picks, maybe a pick swap, our second for their third or just our 2021 third
    Last edited by 707; 7th August 2020 at 06:06 PM.

  4. #808
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Dawg View Post
    Where we are struggling is in effective clearances. Even though the numbers might suggest we're holding our own, watching every game of late shows we lack time and space in tight. The young bodies are just getting out muscled.
    Now the question is how long do we give it? I can't see this really improving significantly for a couple of years. In the meantime, out young mids just get beaten up.
    I recognise we have drafted alot of midfielders or guys who can run through there. But on analysis, I think they're all similar. Around 180cm (or less), 80kg and young. KB has picked them because he feels the game is going in the way of all mids being hybrids. On watching us over the last couple of years, I would in part disagree with this. We still need some older, bigger bodies in the midfield to have any hope of clearing the congestion. Our best games in recent memory have been when JPK and Parks have dominated in tight.
    In short, if we have to delist some of our skinny youngsters to get a couple of bigger bodies in, then so be it. I do agree that a youngish ruck / forward would be handy too.

    Which skinny youngsters would you be delisting? A midfield needs a mix of inside and outside players.

    Our midfield depth consists of - Kennedy, Parker, Hewett, Heeney, Florent, Rowbottom, Mills, Stephens, Warner, McInerney, Clarke, Papley, Wicks, Bell.

    Which of those are you delisting and how would it help us get Sier, who btw I didn't think was that impressive last night.

  5. #809
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    We all know that the Swans have been a net loser in recruitment the past few years (Hanners, Jones, Cameron, etc.). Instead of recruiting players from other clubs, for whatever reason, we have gone to the draft. My oft repeated reason, I believe, was to transition the team to one with more speed and skills. If we now go out and recruit midfielders from other clubs we undermine the development of those players we drafted by not doing exactly that. It would be a reversal of policy without first seeing the effectiveness of the current policy. Flip-flopping like that really doesn't accomplish anything. For better or worse, we have to see the current program through. In a few years we can step back and evaluate what we've done and pass judgment.

  6. #810
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBloods View Post
    Which skinny youngsters would you be delisting? A midfield needs a mix of inside and outside players.

    Our midfield depth consists of - Kennedy, Parker, Hewett, Heeney, Florent, Rowbottom, Mills, Stephens, Warner, McInerney, Clarke, Papley, Wicks, Bell.

    Which of those are you delisting and how would it help us get Sier, who btw I didn't think was that impressive last night.
    Sier is an example of someone who's a bit bigger, more mature sized. We only need one, maybe 2 of his sort (Hately, Caldwell, Wills, Drew, Constable are a few others). In terms of who would go out, Clarke is the obvious, maybe Bell. Wicks will play predominantly in the forward line, as will Paps once our troops come back. Mills has his papers stamped as a back, likewise Heeney at half forward.

    I'm not advocating wholesale change. All long term plans require some tweaking along the way.

    Btw I thought Sier was pretty good. Could stand in a tackle, get a handpass away. But that's all a matter of opinion.

  7. #811
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post
    Disagree about recruiting Sier, or any midfielder for that matter.

    It's not quite evident now, because we have so many young players, but we really have an excess of midfielders, whether you call them inside, outside, on-ballers, or whatever. It will be hard to keep all the midfielders we want who are presently on our list for lack of spots, which will be even more the case once Campbell and Gulden are added this draft.

    The only way to get a handle on this is to go through the list and slot in the players you think will be in our best 22 in 2022. You can even leave out JPK. You will likely find that there are more than just a handful of players you think will be in the 22 but are not. I have at least 10. They include players like Ling, Stoddart, McInerney, Warner, COR, Campbell, Gulden, Wicks, Ronke, just to name a few. There are more. Maybe not everyone rates them as potential best 22, but I think most of them should fight for selection.

    What we need most is someone who can play ruck or forward/ruck, like a healthy Daniher, or Peter Wright, or Preuss or Chol. All the other positions are well covered.
    I agree with what you say re the ruck Ludwig.

    In the case of Sier, he is built like a bull (even bigger than Josh). If we had a bull in the ring feeding it out to our emerging midfielders (who are lightly built) i think we might have a more dynamic combination. My fear with our midfielders is that someone needs to extract the ball and not be pushed aside. Other than Josh, and Parker, i don't see their replacement

  8. #812
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post
    We all know that the Swans have been a net loser in recruitment the past few years (Hanners, Jones, Cameron, etc.). Instead of recruiting players from other clubs, for whatever reason, we have gone to the draft. My oft repeated reason, I believe, was to transition the team to one with more speed and skills. If we now go out and recruit midfielders from other clubs we undermine the development of those players we drafted by not doing exactly that. It would be a reversal of policy without first seeing the effectiveness of the current policy. Flip-flopping like that really doesn't accomplish anything. For better or worse, we have to see the current program through. In a few years we can step back and evaluate what we've done and pass judgment.
    I don't agree. They aren't mutually exclusive. We didn't nullify our policy of recruiting from other clubs by going to the draft and we won't be "reversing" our draft heavy policy by bringing in the right players from other clubs. It needn't be flopping, it can be smart recruiting. I do agree that for whatever reason we haven't had much success recently with bringing in the right players, however that doesn't mean it was the wrong policy, just poor execution. Drafting is not an exact process, its hit and miss. There's no reason why we shouldn't complement our drafting with traded players and free agents.

    I can see a number of positions, that would improve the development of our young players, for example a reliable ruckman for our midfield group; getting Buddy back (after so long out he'll be like a new recruit) for our young forwards etc. One of the things that also may have been lost with the retirement of Macca etc is their on field coaching.

    Its a hypothetical, but if we could get a fit Daniher for nothing, I don't think that would hold our side back...

    I don't know if Sier is the answer. It definitely helps young players to watch older better players and learn from them. If we could trade in an elite midfielder with pick 2 (not saying we will), it would potentially do more for the groups development than not.

  9. #813
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    An elite mature midfielder would A - want to come to us and B - take a very big chunk of TPP which we probably don't have.

    Stay the course, add a potential elite player with pick 2, Campbell who looks very good and Gulden who may be better than the "also ran" tag he seems to be labelled with behind Campbell. These three this year will top off an already very promising young list, add mature player/s as needed next year.

    We need a ruckman but not sure where we'll find one.

  10. #814
    Quote Originally Posted by 707 View Post
    We need a ruckman but not sure where we'll find one.
    Punt Rd apparently

  11. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Dawg View Post
    Sier is an example of someone who's a bit bigger, more mature sized. We only need one, maybe 2 of his sort (Hately, Caldwell, Wills, Drew, Constable are a few others). In terms of who would go out, Clarke is the obvious, maybe Bell. Wicks will play predominantly in the forward line, as will Paps once our troops come back. Mills has his papers stamped as a back, likewise Heeney at half forward.

    I'm not advocating wholesale change. All long term plans require some tweaking along the way.

    Btw I thought Sier was pretty good. Could stand in a tackle, get a handpass away. But that's all a matter of opinion.
    I would think it's a premature reaction to Kennedy and Hewett's absence. With those guys out, of course there's a lack of big bodies in there. Take two of your three best mids away and any midfield group will struggle. But Rowbottom won't be 19 forever, and Parker will be all the better for having those guys around him again. That's a strong enough inside contingent.

    My major concern is where our next superstar comes from. I don't see one on the list. Sier sure as heck wouldn't fix that problem.

  12. #816
    Just to remind everyone:

    OFF CONTRACT 2020
    Joel Amartey, James Bell, Kaiden Brand, Zac Foot, Robbie Fox, George Hewett, Josh P. Kennedy, Michael Knoll, Matthew Ling, Hayden McLean, Lewis Melican, Barry O'Connor, Ben Ronke, Ryley Stoddart, Samuel Wicks

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