Page 12 of 19 FirstFirst ... 28910111213141516 ... LastLast
Results 133 to 144 of 219

Thread: Elijah Taylor

  1. #133
    It is not the role of the club to punish him. That is the role of the justice system. Whatever penalty the court decides, that is his punishment. From the club's perspective, he has broken multiple directives. If there are contractual grounds for delisting, then that may be appropriate. In terms of a long term good to society, I think he should have to spend a year doing a "real" job-like plumber's assistant. and if has shown growth in his maturity then a rookie spot considered. The discussion here is extreme. Violence is never acceptable, but we do not know all of the details and relationships are complex.
    I feel disgust every time Wayne Carey commentates, and the other commentators fawn over him like he is some type of hero. ( Thanks for the mute button). His behaviour was far worse than Elijah's, yet he has been accepted back into the fold.
    Toby Greene is a thug, but he has been allowed to continue. One of the roles of a football club is to help young people become better people.

  2. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodspirit View Post
    I presume that's a rhetorical question. I will limit myself in what I say to the following, because I don't want to drag this thread off topic:

    I accept that there may be a range of views people may hold around this issue. Personally, I'm not a hardliner. I'm not a guy who says "well, you've done a terrible thing therefore you must be a terrible person and that can never be changed". I think it's more valuable to seek to have all parties understand why the terrible thing was done. This is does not excuse doing terrible things and does not mean there should not be consequences for doing terrible things, but it is more valuable than just writing someone off, end of story. If you do that, not only are opportunities for all parties to learn lost, but also there is a greater risk of terrible actions being repeated (whether by the same person or others).
    A concise and perceptive summary.

  3. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by AnsweredPrayers View Post
    I reserve my right to boo players who abuse women whether it be rape or domestic violence. It's unacceptable no matter how you spin it. If opposition supporters did the same I wouldn't criticise them. The club needs to think long and hard about going down this path.
    Quote Originally Posted by 707 View Post
    Everyone desrves a second chance if they have truly reformed. Yes, what he did is not acceptable but he has pleaded guilty and we need to await the law courts decision.

    We are talking about an immature 18yo who probably desperately needs strong guidance to get his life on track and it may be that the football club is the best place for this to happen. He may turn out a model citizen after this.

    The club and AFL will make a decision and we need to accept it whichever way it goes.
    Many of us have differing opinions on this one; I don't offer the following intending to be combative. (I actually think that such discussions as ours can be beneficial in our community, as allowing a forum to wrestle with difficult and complex issues.)

    As for the booing, when Adam Goodes was remorselessly booed without cause, it became too easy for cruel and cowardly people to join in. A certain semi-idenitifed Spaniard in Adelaide, whose act did justify criticism, was subject to public humiliation last week, but there's been a stepping away from that harsh criticism (perhaps in recognition of mental health concerns and/or in recognition that it could lead to the concealment rather than the prevention of similar behaviours in future?). I believe in condemining an act, rather than a person. I think we should leave it to the judicial system and those close to ET to bring it home to him that he was the person responsible for the act.

    As for "deserving a second chance if they have truly reformed", - a second chance at what? At living a decent, upright life - certainly. But there's no moral onus on the club to provide a second chance on the football field. And of course "if they have truly reformed" is the unanswerable question at the centre of this. To show contrition is a good start, but there is never a guarantee that any of us will not succumb even to the repetition of behaviours which, in calmness and in our right mind, we ourselves condemn.

    Another way of expressing this is to say that what I would hope is that ET goes on to become a fine citizen, but that does not necessarily entail his being retained on our list.

    I very much agree with the comment that we need to accept the decision of the AFL and our club.

  4. #136
    Senior Player Bloody Hell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    3,085
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodspirit View Post
    I have another comment, trying to stick to the topic of ET rather than the wider social issues: there is a risk that if we keep Elijah, he will be booed, potentially even by Swans fans. This would be a disastrous scenario for both the club and Elijah. So, the more I think about it, the more I think the club is going to have to do some explaining. I think it's reasonable to expect that Elijah will have to do a fair bit of media and talk about his use of violence, why it happened and what he's done to make sure it won't happen again. This wouldn't necessarily happen immediately but I think will need to happen before he takes the field again.

    Another way of looking at the situation is that the delay by the club is not because we are thinking of keeping him but because we are waiting for the legal system to run its course before we use his crimes as a basis for tearing up his contract. I would have thought his plea of guilt would be enough but I can also see an argument for letting the court case come to its final conclusion before we respond formally. I hope the list managers have some clarity about the club's intentions, even if we don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodspirit View Post
    I presume that's a rhetorical question. I will limit myself in what I say to the following, because I don't want to drag this thread off topic:

    I accept that there may be a range of views people may hold around this issue. Personally, I'm not a hardliner. I'm not a guy who says "well, you've done a terrible thing therefore you must be a terrible person and that can never be changed". I think it's more valuable to seek to have all parties understand why the terrible thing was done. This is does not excuse doing terrible things and does not mean there should not be consequences for doing terrible things, but it is more valuable than just writing someone off, end of story. If you do that, not only are opportunities for all parties to learn lost, but also there is a greater risk of terrible actions being repeated (whether by the same person or others).
    Quote Originally Posted by Meg View Post
    If the club retains ET they must strip him of #37. Otherwise they will be faced with thousands of furious Swans supporters.
    This is why the furthering of the relationship is untenable.

    You either have to stand behind him 100% or let him go. Standing behind him means he has to keep the same jersey and he will be booooed incessantly for the rest of his career. Micky O were rumours and accusations. ET's situation will be a charge and conviction.

    Though these guys are young men within society, they are something else also. In Australia, sportsmen are elevated.They are characters in a pantomime. ET - through his own actions is cast as a villain, I can't see what can be done for that to change. Even if he became Mother Theresa, his lot is cast, people don't forget.

    The Swans have an excellent brand that is associated with being a family club. I cannot see why they'd risk associating themselves with ET. Sure, support him off the field, they may have to pay the rest of his contract, but I can't see him wearing the red and the white of this club again.
    The eternal connundrum "what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object" was finally solved when David Hasselhoff punched himself in the face.

  5. #137
    Such a thorny issue. I agree with most of what you have posted, Bloody Hell, although I'm not sure that it is a fait accompli that he would be booed for the rest of his career. It's possible, although I fear unlikely, he won't be booed at all. More possibly, he could be booed for a while, which he'd just have to cop with the best grace and fortitude he can muster, repeatedly acknowledge his mistakes and say that it's his job to atone for them and to win back people's trust, and maybe, after a time, the boos will fade away and be replaced by whatever he does next. But you're right. It's never going to be forgotten. And it will follow him around the rest of his career to some degree. If he wants to keep going, he'll have to reckon with that.

    I'll be watching with interest to see what happens next Wednesday when he is sentenced. If the sentence is severe that will make the club's decision easy. More likely though, it will be an in between kind of result that leaves us with a choice to make. I expect the club will have mostly made up their mind about what they'll do in that context.

    How many other players have had to deal with criminal pasts? I can think of a couple of examples where there were accusations that didn't conclude with convictions: Mickey O, Stephen Milne come to mind. Gary Ablett Snr? I'm sure there are many more. Liam Jurrah didn't play again at AFL level after being convicted of similar offences. I found this list which provide more examples (focusing only on proven crimes that were punished): https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/afl-players-punished-by-the-courts.668143/. However, I didn't look into it deeply enough to see whether any of these players continued to play after their convictions. I think we can also draw a distinction between even quite serious drink driving offences compared to serious assaults.
    All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument than others. -Douglas Adams, author (11 Mar 1952-2001)

  6. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloody Hell View Post
    This is why the furthering of the relationship is untenable.

    You either have to stand behind him 100% or let him go. Standing behind him means he has to keep the same jersey and he will be booooed incessantly for the rest of his career. Micky O were rumours and accusations. ET's situation will be a charge and conviction.
    No one outside of us would know who he is. He wont get booed, unless of course he starts relaying a few home truths about our society, then it will be all-in.

  7. #139
    Veterans List
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Castlemaine, Vic.
    Posts
    8,177
    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    No one outside of us would know who he is. He wont get booed, unless of course he starts relaying a few home truths about our society, then it will be all-in.
    +1

    I agree....I just don't think other clubs fans even pay enough attention to the Swans to have a clue who he is and indeed, what he's done. They may have more of a clue after next Wednesday but by the time next season starts, they will have moved on.....and if we retain him, he will surely let only his footy do the talking.....if he has half a brain.

  8. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    No one outside of us would know who he is. He wont get booed, unless of course he starts relaying a few home truths about our society, then it will be all-in.
    Well said Barry. That was Goodesy's crime.

  9. #141
    Aut vincere aut mori Thunder Shaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    My secret laboratory in the suburbs of Melbourne
    Posts
    3,839
    ET could seek redemption by accepting his punishment, making some kind of formal apology, playing well in his career, and becoming a public speaker against domestic violence. He could end up doing a lot to reduce this scourge by taking a leadership role in the community.

    I don't believe for a second that he should escape just punishment. He should receive a fair punishment in accordance with the law and within the AFL's rules. It's what happens afterwards that matters. He should be given a chance at redemption, but it should be made clear that this is the only chance that will be given.
    "Unbelievable!" -- Nick Davis leaves his mark on the 2005 semi final

  10. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder Shaker View Post
    ET could seek redemption by accepting his punishment, making some kind of formal apology, playing well in his career, and becoming a public speaker against domestic violence. He could end up doing a lot to reduce this scourge by taking a leadership role in the community.

    I don't believe for a second that he should escape just punishment. He should receive a fair punishment in accordance with the law and within the AFL's rules. It's what happens afterwards that matters. He should be given a chance at redemption, but it should be made clear that this is the only chance that will be given.
    Quality post.

  11. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodspirit View Post
    Quality post.
    Yes indeed.

  12. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder Shaker View Post
    ET could seek redemption by accepting his punishment, making some kind of formal apology, playing well in his career, and becoming a public speaker against domestic violence. He could end up doing a lot to reduce this scourge by taking a leadership role in the community.

    I don't believe for a second that he should escape just punishment. He should receive a fair punishment in accordance with the law and within the AFL's rules. It's what happens afterwards that matters. He should be given a chance at redemption, but it should be made clear that this is the only chance that will be given.
    His shot at redemption should not come at AFL level though ( not saying you said it should ) , he’s burnt that chance for now. Go back to the lower leagues and prove you deserve a chance at redemption. Work hard, improve his attitude towards women, repent. No way he deserves to stay on an AFL list. Quarantine breach first , then at least one act of violence against women ( still unclear on whether there were 2 seperate incidents). You get a chance but you don’t get two ( or three)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Page 12 of 19 FirstFirst ... 28910111213141516 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO