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Thread: Best 22 2021

  1. #133
    Ego alta, ergo ictus Ruck'n'Roll's Avatar
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    Agree Dawg, Melican isn't the most talented player, but he's extremely solid unit, and as such I think our best option against monster forwards.
    No idea about Gould, yet to see him play.
    I'm not sure about Hayward stagnating, he played some excellent games last year - down back, and then as a defensive forward
    You didn't mention him, but Florent likewise, I was worried about him, but when I looked a bit harder I realised he was playing a defensive role, and doing it very well.
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  2. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain View Post
    Cunningham is miles ahead of Ling at the moment. Can't see this changing for a long time (if ever).
    Agree with this for R1. But no doubt Ling has talent and even if he is pushing Harry by season's end, that would be a good result moving forward.

  3. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck'n'Roll View Post
    Agree Dawg, Melican isn't the most talented player, but he's extremely solid unit, and as such I think our best option against monster forwards.
    No idea about Gould, yet to see him play.
    I'm not sure about Hayward stagnating, he played some excellent games last year - down back, and then as a defensive forward
    You didn't mention him, but Florent likewise, I was worried about him, but when I looked a bit harder I realised he was playing a defensive role, and doing it very well.
    Hayward looked ok playing back and stopped Haynes from generating rebound in the GWS game. However we need him presenting as a viable goal kicking option, not just doing defensive roles.

    Don't really need him in defence - only played there because of our injuries last season and he was out of form.

    Too short to he KPF.

    Lacks leg speed to be small forward.

    Lacks tank to play in midfield.

    Only viable position is medium forward / 3rd tall. IMO, McDonald will prove to be a better option very soon.

  4. #136
    Regular in the Side Velour&Ruffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain View Post
    Cunningham is miles ahead of Ling at the moment. Can't see this changing for a long time (if ever).
    Yep. If Ling gets even close to Cunningham’s current level by the end of season 2022 I will be shocked (but happy - options and depth is the key to success)
    My opinion is objective truth in its purest form

  5. #137
    I see most pick a forward line with minimal defensive capability. This approach does not work as sides get murdered on the rebound. I would suggest the forward line will have ronde or wicks to provide defensive blockage to keep the ball within the 50

  6. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Dawg View Post
    Hayward looked ok playing back and stopped Haynes from generating rebound in the GWS game. However we need him presenting as a viable goal kicking option, not just doing defensive roles.

    Don't really need him in defence - only played there because of our injuries last season and he was out of form.

    Too short to he KPF.

    Lacks leg speed to be small forward.

    Lacks tank to play in midfield.

    Only viable position is medium forward / 3rd tall. IMO, McDonald will prove to be a better option very soon.
    Yep, Hayward has too many deficiencies. He doesn't do anywhere near enough and his average stats are ordinary at best. I don't buy the defensive forward bit. Frankly, he is not good enough and if other players come on I can't see him getting a game. He just doesn't get close to the footy anywhere near enough.

    One of our great problems in past years is the ease with which opposition sides clear the footy from our forward line. And guess who has been getting a game on the HFF. Also I don't think Ronke is any better. Neither is in our best 22.

  7. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Nico View Post
    Yep, Hayward has too many deficiencies. He doesn't do anywhere near enough and his average stats are ordinary at best. I don't buy the defensive forward bit. Frankly, he is not good enough and if other players come on I can't see him getting a game. He just doesn't get close to the footy anywhere near enough.

    One of our great problems in past years is the ease with which opposition sides clear the footy from our forward line. And guess who has been getting a game on the HFF. Also I don't think Ronke is any better. Neither is in our best 22.
    So who is a defensive forward

  8. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Nico View Post
    Yep, Hayward has too many deficiencies. He doesn't do anywhere near enough and his average stats are ordinary at best. I don't buy the defensive forward bit. Frankly, he is not good enough and if other players come on I can't see him getting a game. He just doesn't get close to the footy anywhere near enough.

    One of our great problems in past years is the ease with which opposition sides clear the footy from our forward line. And guess who has been getting a game on the HFF. Also I don't think Ronke is any better. Neither is in our best 22.
    I doubt Hayward is going to be sitting in the twos anytime soon. He has the longest contract (2024) out of any of our current players to the best of my knowledge.

    I agree that the opposition have been rebounding fairly easily out of our forward line. But I wouldn't pin that on a player. There's six players pencilled in there. It's a collective problem, not an individual's.

  9. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark26 View Post
    I doubt Hayward is going to be sitting in the twos anytime soon. He has the longest contract (2024) out of any of our current players to the best of my knowledge.

    I agree that the opposition have been rebounding fairly easily out of our forward line. But I wouldn't pin that on a player. There's six players pencilled in there. It's a collective problem, not an individual's.
    Agree, but these days the defensive forward is a pretty specific role. He is the guy that gut runs back across the middle to block the fast exits, and puts pressure and tackles on the opposition backs to ensure they can't get out cleanly or easily. Papley for example is an attacking forward so he tends to stay deep and tries to get goals, but pays little attention to what happens to the ball if he doesn't get it. The big KPPs do very little defensively. Wicks is probably the only specialist defensive forward who made an impact in his seven games last year. He constantly was high up in the pressure acts and tackles, but it was the gut running to block the corridor that is often overlooked. With McVeigh as forwards coach I doubt they will structure in such a way as to only have attack in the forward line. With a young midfield it is critical that the ball move into the forward line and stay there for a bit to enable the mids to catch their breath and get back into position. Without this the unpressured rebound out of the forward line will result in heavy scores against the swans. My point is that the selection of the forward line is not just about picking the six best forwards. There will be specific roles that must be met.

  10. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by barracuda View Post
    Agree, but these days the defensive forward is a pretty specific role. He is the guy that gut runs back across the middle to block the fast exits, and puts pressure and tackles on the opposition backs to ensure they can't get out cleanly or easily. Papley for example is an attacking forward so he tends to stay deep and tries to get goals, but pays little attention to what happens to the ball if he doesn't get it. The big KPPs do very little defensively. Wicks is probably the only specialist defensive forward who made an impact in his seven games last year. He constantly was high up in the pressure acts and tackles, but it was the gut running to block the corridor that is often overlooked. With McVeigh as forwards coach I doubt they will structure in such a way as to only have attack in the forward line. With a young midfield it is critical that the ball move into the forward line and stay there for a bit to enable the mids to catch their breath and get back into position. Without this the unpressured rebound out of the forward line will result in heavy scores against the swans. My point is that the selection of the forward line is not just about picking the six best forwards. There will be specific roles that must be met.
    Agreed. The small forward(s) role is critically important in today’s game. Wicks and ROnke (until injured) did that pretty well for us last year. All the forwards can’t be superstars, you need to have your ‘meat and potatoes’

  11. #143
    Ego alta, ergo ictus Ruck'n'Roll's Avatar
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    Hayward seems to have well and truly inherited the mantle of RWO whipping boy, will 2021 make it two or three years in a row?
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  12. #144
    Veterans List wolftone57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Dawg View Post
    Low ceiling is a bit harsh. I should've expressed it in terms of potential to improve. For the team to improve, we need improvement in the individual positions within the team. This occurs either by the incumbents improving or those on the fringe improving such that they become the better players.

    Hope that Gould can move past Melican. He's alot more talented and has a higher ceiling.

    I like Clarke, an honest hard worker. But if he never plays another game because JMac, Gulden and Campbell move ahead convincingly, it means our team is improving.

    Hayward has stagnated the last 2 seasons and does not threaten enough. Eventually McDonald will play KPF for us but it would be great if he is good enough to play Hayward's medium role initially.
    McLean for Reid / Sinclair.

    Cunningham is a great player but if Ling could play well enough to beat him for the small lockdown / running defender, that would be massive for us. I think Ling had massive potential that had been stymied by injury.
    Gould does not play the same lock down role Melican does and is not that huge player to take on the monsters. Even if he is strong enough. His role is more the intercept marking role. He can lock down a tall, did so in the SANFL GF against Port, but his value is elsewhere.

    I think Melican is a good player. His form for the majority of last year was good. There are three other players who will be vying for the key back roles: Brand, O'Connor (198/100), McCartin.

    Clarke, Gray, Taylor etc are players who have limited time. The heat would also be on Ronke, Harry, O'Riordan, Bell, Warner and company to produce good performances. Hayward has an upside in that he does have pure talent. He just has to get more composure in the contest at AFL level. I don't think using Mcdonald, a key position player, in the Hayward role is a positive move. If Hayward's form is not good Gulden, Ronke, Sheather would be more likely.

    With Kennedy ageing we need to look at reinvigorating the mids. Mills, Dawson, Campbell, Sheather, Ronke, Gulden, Warner need to be looked at as alternatives going forward. I would also look at Amartey to play this role too.

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