2021 pre-season general footy chat

[bloodspirit]

As for all the people (I'm not referring to RWO-ers here) getting so offended by the word "systemic" and pondering loudly
what the phrase "systemic racism" actually means, why not just substitute the phrase "regular and on-going racism" to make
it all a bit clearer to them. Because that is what has been happening at Collingwood. Chimp, slave, King Kong? Seriously, it's
just so @@@@@@.

I think you're right that a lot of people are confused about the meaning of 'systemic racism' - not least Eddie McGuire. I think it is genuinely possible that EM still doesn't get what it means, even though I presume he is a reasonably intelligent person who has every reason to know and who has lost his career in part because he has failed to figure it out.

However I'm not sure I agree that systemic racism means "regular and ongoing racism" or that it encompasses situations where Heretier Lumumba was called by the monikers "chimp" and "slave". In the Do Better report they equate systemic racism with indirect racism and they contrast it with direct racism. Calling people racist epithets is an example of direct racism (as in the various examples cited in Do Better). It is much more likely in instances of direct racism that people know they are being racist. Whereas it is normal that people who are not oppressed by indirect (or systemically/structurally/institutionally) racist policies may not notice the racism inherent in the policy.

To give an example, imagine a country pub in a town with a disadvantaged Indigenous community. It would be directly racist if the pub had a policy "no blacks served here". But a policy that says "you must wear a collar and closed shoes to enter the lounge bar" may be indirectly racist because it may impact disproportionately to exclude the disadvantaged Indigenous community members. It is not overtly racist, but it's impact is felt differently by different parts of the community. People who live with oppression often say the indirect barriers to participating in society are more harmful than the overt instances of exclusion.

When I put "systemic racism" into Google one of the first hits that came up was this article that explains "what is systemic racism" in the context of the film industry: Explainer: what is systemic racism and institutional racism? (theconversation.com). I only glanced at it and I'm sure you'll find other (and better) resources online to explain what systemic racism is but it's a starting point.

- - - Updated - - -

This the most pertinent quote about the topic I can find in the Do Better report:

The 2011 policy on bullying makes no reference to racism. The 2020 policy notes both direct (interpersonal) and indirect (structural) racism. This points to a critical flaw in previous policies that also goes some way to explaining why, internally, there was little ability to address issues of racism in the past when it arose and when complaints were made. This may also account for the claims of racism made by people within the Club that complaints were not taken seriously, and no action was taken in response to them. It also shows that, when incidents have occurred, there was little internal guidance on how to raise an issue or on how the Club ought to respond. This also reinforces the perception that the Club sees racism as a reputational and public relations problem.

[bloodspirit]

It would have been good if the report had given more examples of the systemic racism that exist(ed) at Collingwood FC apart from the poor handling of complaints. I think the recent articles on abc.net.au by Russell Jackson have done a better job of portraying how it looked, but they are based almost entirely on interviews with Heretier Lumumba, who is not independent and is only one point of view.

[Ludwig]

BECAUSE THIS FORUM IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT FOOTBALL !!!

When there's football stuff to talk about, we usually stay on topic. But with a dearth of footy info atm, we tend to exploit anything remotely related to football to fill the void.

We probably scaled down our media department due to Covid budget cuts. We don't have a team in the AWFL like most other AFL clubs do to fill the sleepy season with news.

It's mostly up to RWO to be creative in finding something to chat about to amuse each other until the practice match. So it's to be expected that we meander between imagination and fabrication. Else we would drown in the quagmire of reality.

[Blood Fever]

I would think that for people involved in the footy industry and making their living from it that Melbourne is very much a
company town and as such there will be a lot of tip toeing around pretty much every issue or transgression that comes up.
Why would it be any different from any other company town in this regard?
People who leave a company town and/or are no longer dependent on it financially are much more likely to speak freely
than people still connected to it like the bulk of the interviewees for the report apparently are. So I'm not surprised if the
report is "light on detail".
As for all the people (I'm not referring to RWO-ers here) getting so offended by the word "systemic" and pondering loudly
what the phrase "systemic racism" actually means, why not just substitute the phrase "regular and on-going racism" to make
it all a bit clearer to them. Because that is what has been happening at Collingwood. Chimp, slave, King Kong? Seriously, it's
just so @@@@@@.

Glad to see Eddie go. Destroyed the concept of conflict of interest as well as his other sins. He was a protected species in Melbourne for far too long. Another guy who should be in disgrace is Andrew Demetriou for extremely dodgy actions both with his nephew's training organization and as a director of Crown. Don't expect him to apologize or take responsibility. At least as bad as Mcguire. Media are going very soft on him.

[bloodspirit]

Good article about Eddie's departure and legacy that draws substantially on an interview with Richard Colless, presumably since Eddie announced his retirement: Eddie McGuire. Would you have liked him at your club? | Footyology.

[KTigers]

Glad to see Eddie go. Destroyed the concept of conflict of interest as well as his other sins. He was a protected species in Melbourne for far too long. Another guy who should be in disgrace is Andrew Demetriou for extremely dodgy actions both with his nephew's training organization and as a director of Crown. Don't expect him to apologize or take responsibility. At least as bad as Mcguire. Media are going very soft on him.

Oh c'mon. Give "Uncle Andy" a break. He was so exhausted from working three days a week to earn his $900K salary, how could anyone
expect him to remember why he had received all those extra millions in bonuses and know that the training college company was about
to crash with debts of over $150M and leave thousands of students without courses. McGuire for all his faults has a bit of a way to go to
catch up to Demetriou.

[Blood Fever]

Oh c'mon. Give "Uncle Andy" a break. He was so exhausted from working three days a week to earn his $900K salary, how could anyone
expect him to remember why he had received all those extra millions in bonuses and know that the training college company was about
to crash with debts of over $150M and leave thousands of students without courses. McGuire for all his faults has a bit of a way to go to
catch up to Demetriou.

Eddie not in the same league in terms of criminality

[liz]

For Gods sake .......Try not bring American or any politics into a footy forum

...

Lets just stick to footy and the Swans

... Why should politics be a taboo subject?

Briswan's point / request is valid.

There are plenty of places on the internet for people to trash Trump - or engage in any other political discussion. Including our very own Open Chat.

There are very few places where you can talk "pure Swans" - with a little bit of general AFL chat thrown in. Plenty of our members prefer their Swans Talk reasonably pure, so please take the politics elsewhere (as has been requested on countless previous occasions).

[Old S.M.Blood]

I seem to remember One of our greatest players was called "The Chimp". I think he loved his nickname GO 14.

[Old S.M.Blood]

Good on ya, Old S.M. Blood. Your loyalty over many, many years has been rewarded!

Thank you Sandridge

[Captain]

Briswan's point / request is valid.

There are plenty of places on the internet for people to trash Trump - or engage in any other political discussion. Including our very own Open Chat.

There are very few places where you can talk "pure Swans" - with a little bit of general AFL chat thrown in. Plenty of our members prefer their Swans Talk reasonably pure, so please take the politics elsewhere (as has been requested on countless previous occasions).

Spot on Liz and thank you.

How a few posters on here think that it's relevant to bring up Trump with regards to football chat, on a football board, is beyond me. Totally inappropriate to use RWO as a political platform.

[Ludwig]

Briswan's point / request is valid.

There are plenty of places on the internet for people to trash Trump - or engage in any other political discussion. Including our very own Open Chat.

There are very few places where you can talk "pure Swans" - with a little bit of general AFL chat thrown in. Plenty of our members prefer their Swans Talk reasonably pure, so please take the politics elsewhere (as has been requested on countless previous occasions).

Of course, you are technically correct. I am sympathetic with Briswan's position and we all appreciate the work you and the other moderators do to keep everyone in line. But I wouldn't underestimate the value of broadening the scope of the forum if it provides a more entertaining venue which elicits more comments and viewpoints. The balancing act of finding the right level is a difficult one, and on the whole, I think that's been achieved.

Fans who come to a forum like this take their footy seriously. Some seem to revel in the torture of their club under-performing. But for the most part, sport is meant to be fun and enjoyable, and a Swans' fan forum should be an extension of the general principle. The greater world of footy is combative and disputative. It both reflects and pervades the Australian experience. RWO is a part of that world. It cannot exist in isolation from the broader footy experience. We shouldn't want to restrict discussion to satisfy those who prefer the more limited tortured approach to their football experience.

Reference to the 'Open Chat' alternative has been raised before, but the last entry on that forum was 20 December 2020. It's become a bit cynical to defer to that forum when we know it's a far away place where few will dare to tread. It's like saying "If you don't like Australia, why don't you move to Thailand?"

Again, I appreciate what the moderators do to keep the forum going so well. I also want to weight in by saying that I prefer the forum to reflect a broader community experience that encompasses more viewpoints, so long as we can keep the forum focused enough on the Swans and footy whereby it's easy to return to principle subject of the forum.