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Thread: 2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

  1. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevoswan View Post
    I think Sprite was being sarcastic.
    You might want to read the thread a second time...

  2. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBloods View Post
    Sprite said that would trade Lloyd, that he is over rated, that hes not one of their favourites and now that his best and fairest was an anomaly ! What an insult to a servant of the club who for better or worst has laced up his boots and did his job every week since debuting !
    I'm glad you're indignant with another poster for slandering a servant of our club who laces up their boots and does their job every week. The reality is, that's all of our players: Blakey and Rowbottom included. Now, imagine the cumulative effect if a poster did that continuously ...

  3. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark26 View Post
    I'm glad you're indignant with another poster for slandering a servant of our club who laces up their boots and does their job every week. The reality is, that's all of our players: Blakey and Rowbottom included. Now, imagine the cumulative effect if a poster did that continuously ...

    Surely you are not comparing those two to a two time skilton medalist ? They arent proven servants of the club. Lloyd has earned his stripes and proven himself a reliable player. We as fans are too eager to throw the older players to the scrap heap when some new young player comes along. Not good enough .

  4. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBloods View Post
    Surely you are not comparing those two to a two time skilton medalist ? They arent proven servants of the club. Lloyd has earned his stripes and proven himself a reliable player. We as fans are too eager to throw the older players to the scrap heap when some new young player comes along. Not good enough .
    No I'm not comparing those players. Don't you think every player would be busting their gut on and off the field? Chosing to be an elite sportsperson is a fickle industry to pursue and requires great sacrifice, focus and commitment. That's why I'm not about rubbishing players ad nauseam. Add to that, they play for the best damn club in the world and they're actually human beings. What I was getting at was I found your righteous indignation quite ironic given your willingness to sledge our players, and subsequently cause the same indignant feelings in others. And I think there is a world of difference between being critical and even negative about a player (or their performance) and outright gunning for them.

  5. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark26 View Post
    No I'm not comparing those players. Don't you think every player would be busting their gut on and off the field? Chosing to be an elite sportsperson is a fickle industry to pursue and requires great sacrifice, focus and commitment. That's why I'm not about rubbishing players ad nauseam. Add to that, they play for the best damn club in the world and they're actually human beings. What I was getting at was I found your righteous indignation quite ironic given your willingness to sledge our players, and subsequently cause the same indignant feelings in others. And I think there is a world of difference between being critical and even negative about a player (or their performance) and outright gunning for them.

    Have you been inside a footy club ? Trust me the spray they would cop from the coaches would make me seem like a puppy dog !

    we can support all players who pull on the jumper but faith has to be earned. Like it or not blakey and rowbottom have been around a minute compared to someone like Lloyd who worked his backside off to get off the rookie list , played almost every game since debuting, 3 top 3 finishes in the best and fairest .. he has earned a level of faith and respect that those kids have not. he deserves more respect than to be talked about as trade bait and his past achievements being belittled. Nick blakey and Rowbottom havent achieved anything yet other than getting on an afl list. Congrats boys its a big deal for them and their families but it takes another level of effort and commitment and TALENT to make a decent career. Until they do that they are not above criticism and i dont see the problem in dishing it out to get them in that direction . If they are big boys they would be able to handle it. You think they read RWO ? They wouldnt give a rats you know what. They would care only about the opinions of their coaches and as i said they would've given it to them ten times worse than anything i or you or anyone on here would have to say. Sorry thats not gunning for them its the reality you yourself said its a fickle industry and no point sugarcoating things we think are areas they need to improve on , thats how you learn and be the best they can be . Good luck to them.

  6. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBloods View Post
    Have you been inside a footy club ? Trust me the spray they would cop from the coaches would make me seem like a puppy dog !

    we can support all players who pull on the jumper but faith has to be earned. Like it or not blakey and rowbottom have been around a minute compared to someone like Lloyd who worked his backside off to get off the rookie list , played almost every game since debuting, 3 top 3 finishes in the best and fairest .. he has earned a level of faith and respect that those kids have not. he deserves more respect than to be talked about as trade bait and his past achievements being belittled. Nick blakey and Rowbottom havent achieved anything yet other than getting on an afl list. Congrats boys its a big deal for them and their families but it takes another level of effort and commitment and TALENT to make a decent career. Until they do that they are not above criticism and i dont see the problem in dishing it out to get them in that direction . If they are big boys they would be able to handle it. You think they read RWO ? They wouldnt give a rats you know what. They would care only about the opinions of their coaches and as i said they would've given it to them ten times worse than anything i or you or anyone on here would have to say. Sorry thats not gunning for them its the reality you yourself said its a fickle industry and no point sugarcoating things we think are areas they need to improve on , thats how you learn and be the best they can be . Good luck to them.
    If I might be a bit presumptuous here i apologise. I am trying to rationalise your argument. I sense you are basing your views on how footy was for you in your playing days. If your frequent references to the "old days", SMFC etc is anything to go by Im guessing you were around in the 70s/80s?? Correct me if im wrong! No offence intended!!

    Footy really was a different sphere back then. The insults and the names that were directed at the players from the coaches themselves was pretty intense. You wouldnt hear JL telling one of his players they were playing like pansies, but that was a frequent of the time. The sport has changed! With it more diplomacy. Mental health is prevalent in AFL! Part of being a coach now isn't just putting magnets on a board and barking instructions from the dug out. Its about people skills, communicating. Not every player is the same. They dont all respond to authority the same. So I'm sure in your head TB, treating professional footballers like machines who have one job and one job only which is to do their best is normal. But thats no longer the case.

    It is jarring to posters on here. I have a son who is 20. He played footy all in high school and is in the Nab league competition now, and i would be horrified if he was being viewed by his coach as you would likely view him. I'm not even certain you mean for it to be so harsh and brutish. But it does come off that way. These young men and in some cases BOYS are only human, they will have bad days and bad weeks and maybe even bad months. It is frustrating and we will ponder the reasons why and come to our own conclusions but we must remember they are HUMAN BEINGS. Give them a go, show them some patience TB and you might end up seeing the results you want to see from them so badly!!

  7. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by NeonBible View Post
    If I might be a bit presumptuous here i apologise. I am trying to rationalise your argument. I sense you are basing your views on how footy was for you in your playing days. If your frequent references to the "old days", SMFC etc is anything to go by Im guessing you were around in the 70s/80s?? Correct me if im wrong! No offence intended!!

    Footy really was a different sphere back then. The insults and the names that were directed at the players from the coaches themselves was pretty intense. You wouldnt hear JL telling one of his players they were playing like pansies, but that was a frequent of the time. The sport has changed! With it more diplomacy. Mental health is prevalent in AFL! Part of being a coach now isn't just putting magnets on a board and barking instructions from the dug out. Its about people skills, communicating. Not every player is the same. They dont all respond to authority the same. So I'm sure in your head TB, treating professional footballers like machines who have one job and one job only which is to do their best is normal. But thats no longer the case.

    It is jarring to posters on here. I have a son who is 20. He played footy all in high school and is in the Nab league competition now, and i would be horrified if he was being viewed by his coach as you would likely view him. I'm not even certain you mean for it to be so harsh and brutish. But it does come off that way. These young men and in some cases BOYS are only human, they will have bad days and bad weeks and maybe even bad months. It is frustrating and we will ponder the reasons why and come to our own conclusions but we must remember they are HUMAN BEINGS. Give them a go, show them some patience TB and you might end up seeing the results you want to see from them so badly!!
    Excellent and humane observation. They all try their butts off - being the best they can is what has driven them to this level. A good coach today is an excellent communicator, people manager and has an eye for talent who recognises the differences and the drivers in each player. It is up to the player to make the most of the opportunity. I think, in Horse, we have one of the top coaches who has demonstrated this season, the ability to have a Plan B on match day. All credit to him and the players

  8. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by NeonBible View Post
    If I might be a bit presumptuous here i apologise. I am trying to rationalise your argument. I sense you are basing your views on how footy was for you in your playing days. If your frequent references to the "old days", SMFC etc is anything to go by Im guessing you were around in the 70s/80s?? Correct me if im wrong! No offence intended!!

    Footy really was a different sphere back then. The insults and the names that were directed at the players from the coaches themselves was pretty intense. You wouldnt hear JL telling one of his players they were playing like pansies, but that was a frequent of the time. The sport has changed! With it more diplomacy. Mental health is prevalent in AFL! Part of being a coach now isn't just putting magnets on a board and barking instructions from the dug out. Its about people skills, communicating. Not every player is the same. They dont all respond to authority the same. So I'm sure in your head TB, treating professional footballers like machines who have one job and one job only which is to do their best is normal. But thats no longer the case.

    It is jarring to posters on here. I have a son who is 20. He played footy all in high school and is in the Nab league competition now, and i would be horrified if he was being viewed by his coach as you would likely view him. I'm not even certain you mean for it to be so harsh and brutish. But it does come off that way. These young men and in some cases BOYS are only human, they will have bad days and bad weeks and maybe even bad months. It is frustrating and we will ponder the reasons why and come to our own conclusions but we must remember they are HUMAN BEINGS. Give them a go, show them some patience TB and you might end up seeing the results you want to see from them so badly!!
    Very well said ! Thank you !

  9. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain View Post
    You might want to read the thread a second time...
    You may be right.....I missed his earlier post saying he would gladly let Lloyd go.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBloods View Post
    Sprite said that would trade Lloyd, that he is over rated, that hes not one of their favourites and now that his best and fairest was an anomaly ! What an insult to a servant of the club who for better or worst has laced up his boots and did his job every week since debuting !
    Correct. I missed that earlier post re: letting Lloyd go. I was wrong.

  10. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBloods View Post
    Surely you are not comparing those two to a two time skilton medalist ? They arent proven servants of the club. Lloyd has earned his stripes and proven himself a reliable player. We as fans are too eager to throw the older players to the scrap heap when some new young player comes along. Not good enough .
    But there you go again.....he is saying that all of our players deserve respect and all you can do is double down on your RB and Blakey bashing.

    With all due respect to Lloyd, I'll go out on a limb here and say that RB will become a more valuable player than Lloyd ever was for the Swans. At least he can hit a target (a long way away) and is creative with his disposal.....oh and he can pressure opponents and tackle as well. Lloyd is a rightful Swans 'near-legend' for his persistence and for making the most of his skills.....which let's be frank, are limited and not as good as what RB has to offer.

    I understand you wished RB and Blakey 'good luck' in your last post but can't help thinking you'd rather see them fail so you can say 'told you so'. So some perspective would be helpful.....and maybe read NeonBible's post (#331) again.
    Last edited by stevoswan; 22nd April 2021 at 02:00 PM.

  11. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevoswan View Post
    But there you go again.....he is saying that all of our players deserve respect and all you can do is double down on your RB and Blakey bashing.

    With all due respect to Lloyd, I'll go out on a limb here and say that RB will become a more valuable player than Lloyd ever was for the Swans. At least he can hit a target (a long way away) and is creative with his disposal.....oh and he can pressure opponents and tackle as well. Lloyd is a rightful Swans 'near-legend' for his persistence and for making the most of his skills.....which let's be frank, are limited and not as good as what RB has to offer.

    I understand you wished RB and Blakey 'good luck' in your last post but can't help thinking you'd rather see them fail so you can say 'told you so'. So some perspective would be helpful.....and maybe read NeonBible's post (#331) again.
    I think you are vastly undervaluing Lloyd's abilities and achievements. He is usually up near the top of the AFL leaderboard in kicks and metres gained. With the number of kicks he takes, you would expect a few to go astray. I don't think he would be trusted with the kick-ins if he wasn't an accurate kick. The coaches aren't that stupid.

    I expect big things from RB, but he has a long way to go to match what Lloyd has achieved so far. There's no reason why both can't be considered talented players and significant contributors, each in his own way. One player doesn't have to be knocked down to lift up the other.

    Lloyd was given the job of replacing Jetta. He\s not at all the speedster Jetta was, but I think Lloyd has been more effective in being the pivot man in taking the ball out of defence. Reules have changed and so has the personnel. We are now kicking long out of defence. diminishing Lloyd's bacline role. I think Lloyd can be moved to the midfield wing if need be, even it means to makes room for players like O'Riordan, Ling and Gould down the road.

    I even mentioned that we could be in a position to let Lloyd seek a big contract at another club after his current contract expires in 2022 and he's 29 yo. Th is is more to do with age and other personnel than a reflection on Lloyd's abilities. Sometimes good players can be let go to rebalance the team.

  12. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post
    I think you are vastly undervaluing Lloyd's abilities and achievements. He is usually up near the top of the AFL leaderboard in kicks and metres gained. With the number of kicks he takes, you would expect a few to go astray. I don't think he would be trusted with the kick-ins if he wasn't an accurate kick. The coaches aren't that stupid.

    I expect big things from RB, but he has a long way to go to match what Lloyd has achieved so far. There's no reason why both can't be considered talented players and significant contributors, each in his own way. One player doesn't have to be knocked down to lift up the other.

    Lloyd was given the job of replacing Jetta. He\s not at all the speedster Jetta was, but I think Lloyd has been more effective in being the pivot man in taking the ball out of defence. Reules have changed and so has the personnel. We are now kicking long out of defence. diminishing Lloyd's bacline role. I think Lloyd can be moved to the midfield wing if need be, even it means to makes room for players like O'Riordan, Ling and Gould down the road.

    I even mentioned that we could be in a position to let Lloyd seek a big contract at another club after his current contract expires in 2022 and he's 29 yo. Th is is more to do with age and other personnel than a reflection on Lloyd's abilities. Sometimes good players can be let go to rebalance the team.
    Mine is only a prediction and I do not seek to undervalue Lloyd. I do not want to see him dropped from our team, he is best 22 every day of the week (although I do think Dawson should take every kick in)....I just think RB has a potentially bigger future and I think most would agree that he has a better skill set than Lloyd, in a different role of course. I understand RB has a long way to go to reach Lloyd's legacy but think he will and more. I may be proven wrong but predictions have to start somewhere.

    Having said that, if Lloyd were to be moved to the wing or even be let go in a late career move to free up salary cap space or for team/list balance, with our current list and some sensible recruiting/drafting I think we can comfortably cover what he offers the team.
    Last edited by stevoswan; 22nd April 2021 at 03:36 PM.

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