2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

**mcs** · 19th April 2021, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by liz

I think the pressure element, especially on key forwards, can't be underplayed. The media and fans are prone to pump up the well performed players and demolish anyone even slightly underperforming. I suspect every single one of us on here is guilty of expressing frustration when someone we hoped would be the next tall superstar based on his first handful of games turned out just to be a solid contributor.

Reid is a classic example. He has never quite developed into the star we hoped he might after his first season and a bit, but he's been a handy part of the team. He would have been even handier had he not succumbed to a few seasons of bad injury - hardly his fault, and also consistent with the fact it's a harder game to play when you're tall, not just in terms of the role, but also physically.

As I stood and watched the EFL game on Saturday afternoon, it struck me how weird it was to see Paddy McCartin and Jesse Hogan contesting against each other on an unseasonably cool April day, not inside the SCG but on a paddock outside. And then I thought of Boyd, and Patton, and all the other "great tall hopes" who have fallen by the wayside (and I confess I "prayed a little prayer" for Logan).

So very true Liz. Reid has frustrated me no end for many years, but for several years his pic was actually my avatar on here as I've always liked him as a player. Its disappointing he hasn't reached the levels we all hoped for, but he has been a good contributor to our team for a long while now (When he can stay on the park). I'm hoping he can have a really good 2021 overall after a very decent start to it - maybe it is finally his time to get a bit of luck with injuries.

I just feel sorry for Patton - from day 1, never looked comfortable in the spotlight and never got comfortable with it. Made some stupid mistakes along the way too, but the limelight never seemed to suit. We should all probably be saying little prayers for our dear Logan!

At least for Paddy McC, it is a great accomplishment just to get healthy enough to be out there playing footy again. Anything beyond that would be a massive bonus - would love to see him get back on an AFL list and carve out a decent career somewhere - but baby steps for him.

**Captain** · 20th April 2021, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by giant

This is clearly not the case - our midfield depth looks poor against most clubs in the competition. For example, there aren't many teams where Stephens would be a first choice midfielder. The undefeated top teams both have a spectacular array of midfield talent, and we fall way short of their talent pool. But hopefully we'll get there soon!

I was talking about the distribution of talent on our list, including young/emerging players like Stephens and Rowbottom rather than comparing to other clubs. Even then, our midfield stacks up better to other clubs than our back line does.

Key forwards are certainly hard to find but I think we have struggled with key defenders and that's a bigger issue that the forward line. Our best key defender is undersized (and injured), our next best was a forward and then we have nothing. Aliir traded, Melican/Brand are battlers and then what?

**bloodspirit** · 20th April 2021, 09:46 AM

I agree Captain. It's an excellent point. It vindicates the concerns of those of us who wanted us to do more to address the lack of KPPs and rucks at last year's draft - although we possibly didn't have much wriggle room given we were committed to the two Academy players. Carruthers looks a promising option but don't we already have a bit of depth in that role? I would have preferred us have a shot at another tall.

The other point, that I have made before, is that we need to consider not just drafting but also trading for talls because they take longer to develop (and possibly are a more uncertain prospect). It will depend a bit on how Melican and Gould go over the course of this season.

**Auntie.Gerald** · 20th April 2021, 11:34 AM

if we cast our mind back to the development pathway for Paps, Rampe, Kennedy or even Grundy and Kirky i suppose we can widen the possibilities for Melican and Gould and Stephens / Ling etc .........cant we?

**bloodspirit** · 20th April 2021, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Auntie.Gerald

if we cast our mind back to the development pathway for Paps, Rampe, Kennedy or even Grundy and Kirky i suppose we can widen the possibilities for Melican and Gould and Stephens / Ling etc .........cant we?

I have no idea what you are saying here. Four of those players were rookies and the other was traded in. Comparatively, Melican came as a rookie and Gould, Stephens and Ling in the ND. Are you saying we should look to rookie more players? I really can't tell.

**Auntie.Gerald** · 20th April 2021, 12:03 PM

lol.......BS it was just a general statement not a reply to your post

sometimes we can be to harsh on players and their development pathway........and maybe Melican, Gould, Ling etc will play more of a role than some people believe, despite their trajectory being a little up in the air right now

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lol.......BS it was just a general statement not a reply to your post.

sometimes we can be to harsh on players and their development pathway........and maybe Melican, Gould, Ling etc will play more of a role than some people believe, despite their trajectory being a little up in the air right now and not so obvious.

ie when i reflect on Rampe, Grundy, Kennedy, Paps etc there was no clear evidence early on that they would grow into who they became........

**liz** · 20th April 2021, 12:48 PM

While your statement has plenty of merit, I'm not sure Papley belongs as an example. He debuted in round 1 after he was drafted. I acknowledge he was drafted as a 19yo, rather than an 18yo, but he still impressed as soon as he walked into the club.

Did we (or the club) know he'd become as good as he has? No. But that's true of any draftee, even ones who walk straight into the senior team.

**bloodspirit** · 20th April 2021, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by liz

While your statement has plenty of merit, I'm not sure Papley belongs as an example. He debuted in round 1 after he was drafted. I acknowledge he was drafted as a 19yo, rather than an 18yo, but he still impressed as soon as he walked into the club.

Did we (or the club) know he'd become as good as he has? No. But that's true of any draftee, even ones who walk straight into the senior team.

Rampe was a somewhat similar case in that while we didn't know how good he was going to be, he came in and impressed straightaway. He came in as a mature age (older than Papley, he was 22 years old) and immediately impressed. He played 23 games in his first season and then, at season's end, Jude Bolton particularly bequeathed Rampe his playing number.

I think from yours and liz's comments, AG, that I now understand you to be saying that player's have all different development trajectories, which is clearly true. I think you're also suggesting we should be patient and allow these guys more time to develop? If so, I think Dawson and Hewett might have been better/more encouraging/more apposite examples of what you were trying to demonstrate within the current playing group. They both took time to play seniors, in Dawson's case he only really got going in 2019, his 4th season at the Swans.

**bloodspirit** · 20th April 2021, 05:23 PM

Are these guns gettable in the Trade Period? Meet 2021's 'pre-agents' (afl.com.au)

**Auntie.Gerald** · 20th April 2021, 06:40 PM

From memory Rampe had to play Sydney AFL then SANFL then came back as a midfield / HBF ........then bit by bit we saw the possibility of a Key Possie defender ?

All I was alluding to was that it is so tricky determining the trajectory of some players just from small samples early on.

**giant** · 20th April 2021, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Captain

I was talking about the distribution of talent on our list, including young/emerging players like Stephens and Rowbottom rather than comparing to other clubs. Even then, our midfield stacks up better to other clubs than our back line does.

Key forwards are certainly hard to find but I think we have struggled with key defenders and that's a bigger issue that the forward line. Our best key defender is undersized (and injured), our next best was a forward and then we have nothing. Aliir traded, Melican/Brand are battlers and then what?

Fair cop - I'd certainly agree that we're a key defender short (which just makes the Allir trade...oh I can't be bothered going there one more time). OTOH (and at least to part of Liz's explanation) Carlton would have one of the best big men line-ups in the comp but can't get them on the park, and with midfield depth possibly even weaker than ours, they appear to be in a terrible state. Getting to that state of perfect balance like Dog/Dees/WCE/Port appear to have done takes skill, time and a lot of luck.