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Thread: Academy uproar rears again

  1. #25
    Go Swannies! Site Admin Meg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeeneyIsAGun View Post

    To say those Aussie kids are unbelievably skilled is an understatement. At least 5-6 of them each year could (talent wise, not body size) step into most teams across the AFL. Not only do they have talent and already well over 100 games of experience at 14, but they are professionally coached. THAT is what the Sydney teams have to compete with. THAT sort of talent identification and skill building simply DOES NOT exist without the Northern Academies. These kids are in a club and community system that has been refined over a hundred years, and churns out talented footballers constantly.
    Terrific post and spot on re need for Northern Academies.

  2. #26
    Travelling Swannie!! mcs's Avatar
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    As predictable as anything that this dribble pops up again.

    If the AFL was so good at player development, there would be no need for NGAs, Academies or anything else because they would simply do all the player development themselves. But history has shown they were truly abysmal at it....
    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

  3. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aprilbr View Post

    One question that I have is why has the Swans academy seemingly been more successful than the other northern academies? The Giants academy has access to the rich pickings of the Riverina and so they have done quite well out of it. However, Brisbane and Gold Coast appear to have been less so despite active junior competitions in QLD.

    .
    I don't think it has been that much more successful. Just a bit more hyped. The Lions have Andrews, Hipwood and a Coleman from their academy who played on Saturday (and another Coleman on their list). Keays was part of the Crows team that beat Geelong.

    Gold Coast have Bowes who's clearly in their best 22, and they got to add a couple more last year outside the draft, including one who was touted as a first round pick had he not been available to Gold Coast free.

    Both clubs have picked up a handful more over the years, and have had more success in producing players bid on by other clubs (who have gone to those other clubs when the bid wasn't matched).

    The two Queensland clubs haven't produced players who have attracted quite the same level of hype at draft time as the Swans and Giants (Hopper, Green). The Andrews bid didn't come until pick 70+, though he has claims to be the best performed player thus far from his draft year.

  4. #28
    Veterans List dejavoodoo44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode?id=806422 Round 1 NAB Rising Star Errol Gulden on Dwayne's -- Sydney Rising Star nominee "would have played soccer" if not for Swans Academy
    Thanks for that. His interview skills are almost impressive as his football. Seems very smart and likeable.

    I liked his answer to the curly question that Dwayne posed, which was something like , "If Buddy, one of the best players of all time and your good mate Logan are leading at you; who do you give it to?"

    "Well, whoever's in the best position".

  5. #29
    Why doesn’t someone at the AFL - Gil for example - come out and publicly defend the northern academies. And tackle the VIC media?

  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markwebbos View Post
    Why doesn’t someone at the AFL - Gil for example - come out and publicly defend the northern academies. And tackle the VIC media?
    Gil is a VFL puppet ........ and a Muppet :-)

    It's a tiresome debate and as someone pointed out, Caro Wilson preempted it rising again. Thanks be that Maguire doesn't have a mouthpiece at present

  7. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aprilbr View Post
    The key argument for the Northern academies is to grow the game in those states. Its not about cost or go home factor etc. So when players like Guilden or Heeney say that they would probably be playing soccer in Sydney or rugby league in Newcastle respectively then this is gold for justifying their existence.

    One question that I have is why has the Swans academy seemingly been more successful than the other northern academies? The Giants academy has access to the rich pickings of the Riverina and so they have done quite well out of it. However, Brisbane and Gold Coast appear to have been less so despite active junior competitions in QLD.

    The next generation academies are a total free kick for Victorian clubs in much the same way that the father-son rule has yielded great success for clubs like Geelong. Some of those pickups like Quaynor and the last number one draft pick were playing AFL anyway and would have been drafted regardless of the presence of these so-called next gen academies.
    I would think there are just a lot more kids playing footy in the Sydney area compared to the other areas. Also, there is more of a footy
    culture these days in Sydney (not withstanding the recent drop in Swans membership I was disappointed to see). Give it ten or fifteen
    years and there will be kids taking up Auskick whose parents started playing Auskick in the early 2000s. Unfortunately the first 20
    years of the Swans being in Sydney were mostly just lost years as far as junior development goes.
    There are still just a lot of silly little people down south that can't see past the carpark of their own club. They are always going to hold back
    the growth of footy in this country. Put it this way, the new broadcast deal for the NFL is worth $113 billion USD ($150 billion in our money).
    They have a lot of people in the US, but they don't have THAT many.
    Last edited by KTigers; 24th March 2021 at 04:58 AM.

  8. #32
    Ego alta, ergo ictus Ruck'n'Roll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markwebbos View Post
    Why doesn’t someone at the AFL - Gil for example - come out and publicly defend the northern academies. And tackle the VIC media?
    I think the AFL may actually be trying to protect the Northern Academies.

    Or at least that's my interpretation of the NGA's anyway.
    Any attempt to shut down the Northern Academies will shutdown the Next Generation Academies.

    So as long as the other clubs get to pick up the occasional gem using the BS NGA's, then the Northern Academies will be allowed to continue.
    The rules concerning them are being be tinkered with, and I hope the NGA's aren't fazed out in 2023, as their existence helps to protect the North Academy's with potent self interest by the NGA clubs.
    Last edited by Ruck'n'Roll; 25th March 2021 at 09:45 AM.
    Loose translation from the Latin is - I am tall, so I hit out.

  9. #33
    Aut vincere aut mori Thunder Shaker's Avatar
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    Academy players are in the open draft pool, which means any club can draft them. The club that has developed the player simply has the right to match a bid. This is exactly the same as how father-son operates, and certain clubs have done very well out of father-son.

    Matching Academy bids has a cost. In 2015, the Academy cost Sydney a father-son player (Josh Dunkley) who was bid on at pick 25 after Callum Mills was bid on at pick 3. Many other players have not been drafted by the Academy clubs because these clubs have had to use their draft picks on Academy players.

    These points are conveniently ignored by the usual gang of whiners, who only see the benefits and ignore the costs.
    "Unbelievable!" -- Nick Davis leaves his mark on the 2005 semi final

  10. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck'n'Roll View Post
    I think the AFL may actually be trying to protect the Northern Academies.

    Or at least that's my interpretation of the NGA's anyway.
    Any attempt to shut down the Northern Academies will shutdown the Next Generation Academies.

    So as long as the other clubs get to pick up the occasional gem using the BS NGA's, then the Northern Academies will be allowed to continue.
    The rules concerning them may be tinkered with, but continued existence of both sorts of academies is protected by everyone's self interest.
    NGAs are a joke and the rules too wide for what is included within. I doubt there are any NGA kids taken that wouldnt have already played the game anyway.

    The Swans academy is completely the opposite. It gives kids something to strive towards in a market crowded by League, Union and at junior levels in particular Soccer. If not for the academy set up , many kids would be lured to the larger pathways in the other sports.

    And the whole thing about identifying talent at 10 or 11 is complete rubbish - while they have tryouts at the younger ages, its not until under15s where any sorting out begins when they go to albury to play in the joss trials against other swans and giants kids. Really then thats just sorting the wheat from the chaff and under 16s is where the rubber hits the road. Thats really no different to the TAC cup and school pathway systems in place in Melbourne and the colts systems in SA and WA anyway.

    Ive said before , if the Melbourne clubs wanted to start diluting the academies ability to get some reward for effort , their must be a flip side, in that they then should be made as a minimum to rookie list a kid from one of the northern academies. That would then encourage them to have some skin in the game rather than just bleating about the talent they have not received. The reality is that 5 kids over 7 years have been drafted that probably would have been taken by other clubs anyway - Heeney, Mills, Blakey and now Gulden and Campbell. The rest I doubt (ie Sheather, Wicks etc) . I believe that many talented kids have not even been often considered as a result of being in NSW as they get little opportunity to show their wares . In comparison , the kids in the south are playing in high level TAC cup, colts and School competitions for a couple of years. The swans kids by comparison are really only starting to get noticed when they play at under 16s level in three games against GWS and then if they make the RAMs squad , a further three games. Outside of that , I would guess that little if any scouting goes on at club level at that time.

  11. #35
    Veterans List DeadlyAkkuret's Avatar
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    While the NGAs make little sense, I think the point was that due to their existence it makes it a bit easier to justify the northern academies to the ignorant masses and therefore keep some of the heat off them.

    If that’s the case I am more than happy for both to exist.


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  12. #36
    Ego alta, ergo ictus Ruck'n'Roll's Avatar
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    Thanks DeadlyAkkarat.

    I'm not saying it's design rather than happenstance, but I can't think of a better protection for the Northern Academies than Victorian avarice. Très sophistiqué

    I think Mr Magoo's eyesight isn't 100%
    He needs to see past the colossal, and genuine iniquities of the NGA system, to the considerable value of those NGA's to the Swans.
    Last edited by Ruck'n'Roll; 24th March 2021 at 12:41 PM.
    Loose translation from the Latin is - I am tall, so I hit out.

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