Hawthorn racism review

[dejavoodoo44]

My first thought was how will Gill try and suppress and downplay this.

I'm guessing that there will be statements that nobody really wants to talk about it in grand final week, and that there's now a committee formed to investigate the issue and everybody should calm down until that committee issues their report. Conveniently, that report will arrive a couple of weeks after Gil's last day in the job.

[i'm-uninformed2]

At first blush, it seems the AFL are going full bore on an major external investigation led by a QC.

[aardvark]

At first blush, it seems the AFL are going full bore on an major external investigation led by a QC.

Kings council

[KTigers]

He should never have been appointed in the first place.

But it reinforces the need for the investigation to be run truly independent of the AFL, not via the Integrity Unit.

The "Integrity Unit"? Really? Who dreamed up that title? These guys have been watching too many movies. They are all
AFL employees, right? Why not just call them what they are? The help.

[bloodspirit]

This is what "Win At All Costs" can entail and look like. Hawthorn are probably not the first club to do stuff like this.
Y'know, it's just a game. A few million people in Australia (including us) get all worked up about it. But the other 99.9%
of the people of the planet don't even know it exists, let alone give a @@@@ about it.

I thought something similar and was also reminded of Essendon's 'Whatever It Takes'. Time to remember this is only a game and there are - and should be - limits.

While high performance environments are typically and intentionally challenging, there need to be explicit reminders about the dangers and limits of pushing to the limits and not sliding past them. Another challenge (for every organisation) is to find a safe way to enable whistle-blowing.

***

Just in relation to the breaking news: I am encouraged that the AFL is going to appoint and independent, external group to review these allegations, and that the group will include Indigenous representation.

I'm also impressed that consideration is being given to standing Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan down pending the results of the investigation. I guess this is an easier decision to make on the eve of the off-season (although perhaps not given that it's also the eve of the trade period). I think that one relevant consideration is what might be the penalties if the allegations are sustained? Will there careers as coaches be ended (at least temporarily)? If so, then it seems appropriate to stand them down now. But if not, I don't think it's so appropriate.

Another thought is: while these allegations are horrifying, the conduct alleged does not appear to be criminal and it is concerning that terms which are taken from the criminal law, like 'complainant' and 'accused', are being used in the discussion. At this early stage my view is that while these allegations are highly relevant to the staff involved's ongoing involvement in the game, these incidents, even if admitted, do not make them criminals and they shouldn't be treated as criminals.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out and how much (if any) improvement the AFL shows compared to past incidents which they have just sought to manage serious incidents in the most pragmatic and commercial way possible using spin doctors.

[bloodspirit]

Kings council

I haven't checked but I think Queen's Counsel appointed during the reign of the Queen (not sure if I'm using the right terminology here) remain QCs. Just as there used to be KC's long into the reign of Queen Elizabeth II (I can't imagine there still could be (m)any practising).

[aardvark]

I haven't checked but I think Queen's Counsel appointed during the reign of the Queen (not sure if I'm using the right terminology here) remain QCs. Just as there used to be KC's long into the reign of Queen Elizabeth II (I can't imagine there still could be (m)any practising).

They're calling it Kings council on the radio but they're probably as ignorant as I am. I wonder how Horse is feeling about his mate Clarko now?

[RogueSwan]

... Another thought is: while these allegations are horrifying, the conduct alleged does not appear to be criminal and it is concerning that terms which are taken from the criminal law, like 'complainant' and 'accused', are being used in the discussion. ...

I guess it could be considered a WHS matter, amongst other things, which can lead to criminal convictions [not a lawyer ].

[KTigers]

In response to Bloodspirit ; I agree, people are innocent until proven guilty. If the investigation really is independent and really
is external, then that is good. Someone will be paying them though and I presume that will be the AFL. So there is a bit of an
asterisk next to it. Pity these folk won't work for free. They are very serious allegations. A footy club getting involved in a
player's partners pregnancy? Yikes.

[Captain]

In response to Bloodspirit ; I agree, people are innocent until proven guilty. If the investigation really is independent and really
is external, then that is good. Someone will be paying them though and I presume that will be the AFL. So there is a bit of an
asterisk next to it. Pity these folk won't work for free. They are very serious allegations. A footy club getting involved in a
player's partners pregnancy? Yikes.

The AFL paying is no different to a company paying an auditor for an independent audit report on their financial statements.

Pretty unreasonable to expect 'these folk' to work for free??

[i'm-uninformed2]

Fagan steps aside for now

Club Statement - Chris Fagan

- - - Updated - - -

[dejavoodoo44]

The Lions have released a statement, saying that Chris Fagan has agreed to "take a leave of absence from the Club so he can fully cooperate in the investigation."

Not sure what that really means, considering that it's now the off-season for Brisbane, but I assume that it throws a bit more pressure on Clarkson and North?