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Thread: Roos latest - gameplan wont change

  1. #25
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    Re: Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

    Originally posted by Guzzitza
    Dont shut down the ball and then you dont have to rely on having Judd getting the ball and giving that unbelievable first time posession.
    The shut down part of our game is designed to limit the effectiveness of the opposition. If we play a team with a superior midfield that will get more clearances, at least we don't get hammered and could get a chance to steal the game like we did against Brisbane.

    If we open up the game and don't have numbers around the ball, we still don't get the clearance but the opposition will find it easier to move the ball forward. It would be nice to play looser but the only result is that we will get thumped.

    You'll notice that we can occasionally look to be more attacking. That's not because we play a different gameplan - it's because we are getting the clearances. For example, against the Bulldogs in the 3rd (or may be the 4th - can't remember) quarter.

    Kick long to tall men rather than work it up the wings via inaccurate handballing and rolling mauls.
    The gameplan is to kick long to the tall men. That's the thing that I don't understand about what the likes of Walls are going on with - surely they don't think that the style of play we used on Saturday was intentional.

    Chipping the ball up the wings has never been part of the gameplan. It's what happens when our players make poor decisions or lose confidence due to poor skills.

    As Roos has said, the gameplan is essentially the same as 2003 - get numbers around the ball, break quickly from defence or the midfield and deliver quick and long into the forward 50. We now appear to get more numbers around the ball than we were in 2003 but essentially the difference is that our skills were much better then than they are now.

    Anyway, my personal opinion on what is going wrong has nothing to do with the gameplan, it's skills and team structure.

    I'd like to see us put together our best 22 - which would include Schauble, Dempster and Moore - and play it every week. I don't like the idea of changing the side based on the opposition. Let them worry about us - I've never seen Brisbane change their lineup due to the opposition's strengths.

  2. #26
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

    Originally posted by Sean
    That's the thing that I don't understand about what the likes of Walls are going on with - surely they don't think that the style of play we used on Saturday was intentional.

    Not only Walls - a significant proportion of posters on this board seem to think this too.

  3. #27
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

    Originally posted by liz
    Not only Walls - a significant proportion of posters on this board seem to think this too.
    I guess Liz, there has to be concern with a gameplan that is consistently struggling to kick goals. I don't really feel like going back over and looking at how many goals we have kicked in each game, but surely you find it concerning that we are second bottom on the ladder for points for and goals scored.

    Whether it is the execution of the game plan or the game plan itself that is letting us down by not kicking enough goals, something needs to give...change a few of the cattle who can execute the game plan correctly or change the game plan itself.
    Swannies for life!

  4. #28
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

    Originally posted by liz
    Not only Walls - a significant proportion of posters on this board seem to think this too.
    Yeah - I was trying to be polite

    I actually mentioned Walls because I find him much more frustrating - he's paid to know about footy. Like in that article he wrote about us - he used the number of goals scored by our crumbers to show that we don't kick long to contests. Of course he didn't mention the 25 or so that they've missed this year because that doesn't help his argument .

  5. #29
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

    Originally posted by Sean
    The gameplan is to kick long to the tall men. That's the thing that I don't understand about what the likes of Walls are going on with - surely they don't think that the style of play we used on Saturday was intentional.
    The poor execution was not intentional, but given more of our games turn into slugfests than don't, surely the game plan revolves around creating this stoppage type of play.

    We have less long kicks than any other team in the competition. We have more stoppages than any other team in the competition.
    Our ratio of handballs to kicks is higher than any other team in the competition.
    These stats were evident last year also.

    Also, what are all these missed crumbing goals? I don't think there have been a lot of them.
    Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

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  6. #30
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    Re: Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

    Originally posted by Guzzitza
    and Schneiderman... your posts are as frustrating as watching us play at the moment.
    Cant be any more frustrating than all the bandwagon supporters who loved us in 2003 but hate us in 2005. Its the "GAMEPLAN" that sucks they say. Paul Roos should stop saying the players suck, because its obviously the GAMEPLAN. What a crock. Why? Because with the same breath they note that we have the most number of behinds in the league, that our clearances suck, and we cant hit a contested target - all of which reeks of SKILL ERRORS.

    As it has been suggested, if your team isnt suited to the style of play, then change the style.
    To what? And I have participated in those other threads so I know whats been said. Nothing revolutionary. Certainly nothing Roos hasn't tried already. What exactly DO you do with players who cant hit targets, when in the F50 cant kick straight, and when in the D50 cant find a safe escape route? What GAMEPLAN do you employ when your team is down on confidence, form and skill? The answer: who cares. It wont make a difference.

    Kick long to tall men rather than work it up the wings via inaccurate handballing and rolling mauls.
    They try. I've seen them do it. Watch Bevan or Spriggs, or even J Bolton. They kick it long... straight to a defender. Before you can kick it long, you have to know you can hit a target. Stuart Maxfield led the clangers list for much of this season. Paul Bevan would be close to catching up. "Kick it long" is a dumb strategy for a team like that!

  7. #31
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    And so your suggestion is what? Do nothing and for us to continue to play this abomination of a game?
    Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

    "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

  8. #32
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

    Originally posted by Sean
    The shut down part of our game is designed to limit the effectiveness of the opposition. If we play a team with a superior midfield that will get more clearances, at least we don't get hammered and could get a chance to steal the game like we did against Brisbane.

    If we open up the game and don't have numbers around the ball, we still don't get the clearance but the opposition will find it easier to move the ball forward. It would be nice to play looser but the only result is that we will get thumped.
    This is my problem - we take this attitude from the opening bounce rather than giving the players a chance to start off with an open game and then close it down if its not working. Its a concession that you expect to struggle from the outset and canned be summed up as playing not to lose rather than playing to win.

    I'm on the Chandwagon!!!

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  9. #33
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    Originally posted by Sean
    . We have been very ordinary this season in terms of skills and decision making and yet we are 5-5....
    I'm obviously being a bit argumentative with those comments but IMHO the gameplan is not our problem - it doesn't matter what our gameplan is until we can hit targets by hand and foot. On Saturday there were very few players who could do that.
    I agree wholeheartedly. I have made comments along the lines that Roos doesn't have the catlle but the crux of the matter is a lack of polish on the skills.

    Spot on the money Sean.

  10. #34
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

    Originally posted by NMWBloods
    Our ratio of handballs to kicks is higher than any other team in the competition.
    Actually, we're 15th in this regard. Adelaide have 1.43 kicks to each handball, we have 1.47. Essendon have the highest kick-handball ratio at 2.12.

    I'm on the Chandwagon!!!

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  11. #35
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

    Originally posted by NMWBloods
    The poor execution was not intentional, but given more of our games turn into slugfests than don't, surely the game plan revolves around creating this stoppage type of play.
    The gameplan is to win the clearance or stop them from winning it.

    I'm not saying that it's not defensive at times or doesn't create stoppages - I'm saying that it's not a reason for our bad form and is quite possibly the best option considering the general lack of skills in our midfield.

    Just on that, Ablett is currently our "number 3" midfielder (with Williams out). He wouldn't make the starting midfield for any team in the 8 - and many out of it. Don't get me wrong, I like him and I'm happy with his progression but lets not start to think we have a good midfield. If Kirk & B1 play well, which fortunately they have been, we do OK in the midfield but if those two aren't getting clearances we don't have too many other options as far as I can tell.

    We have less long kicks than any other team in the competition. We have more stoppages than any other team in the competition.
    Yep - we are definitely playing poorly.

    The thing I keep thinking about is the 4th quarter against Brisbane. Roos said after it that it was the way he always wants us to play. Was he lying? Has he decided that the type of play that gets us results like that and saw us make a PF is bad and he would rather that we kick 8-10 goals per game? I don't buy it.

    Also, what are all these missed crumbing goals? I don't think there have been a lot of them.
    Good question. Walls, of course, didn't actually look at crumbing goals - he just compared our "crumbers" Adam & Amon with Milne. Not terribly scientific of him.

    Amon has kicked 11 behinds & I'd guess 5 OOBOTF. Schneider has kicked 3 behinds - not sure about OOBOTF. 25 was probably a bit of an exaggeration.

  12. #36
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: shifting responsibility..

    Originally posted by Mike_B
    This is my problem - we take this attitude from the opening bounce rather than giving the players a chance to start off with an open game and then close it down if its not working. Its a concession that you expect to struggle from the outset and canned be summed up as playing not to lose rather than playing to win.
    Fair point. I think that Roos doesn't view it as closing the game down. His comment about having a Judd would suggest that - we only close it down if we don't get the clearance and if we don't get the clearance there is no advantage in playing loose.

    Anyway, this is starting to get too technical for me - I'm happy to stick with get numbers around the ball and then kick it long .

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