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Thread: They are at it again. GWS under the pump

  1. #193
    Veterans List Ludwig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chalbilto View Post
    Nothing to do with GWS but the Swans wont have access to Abe Davis's younger brother Ben under the Swans Academy due to a technicality in not nominating in last years draft.
    So let's see what happens in this years draft as all clubs will have access to him. In the meantime, I think he is part of the Academy process and being developed as such.
    He won't be taken by any of the other northern clubs as they are overflowing with academy talent this year. I think the non academy clubs might be hesitant to take him as well, suspecting that he would prefer to play with his brother and could be a 'homesick' risk. I'm not sure if he rates a national draft selection in any case. He will likely slip to the rookie draft. Maybe we could just add him to our rookie list if he does slip through, as a Cat B rookie, like we did with Murray last year. I always found these rules confusing.

    The Todd Marshall one is interesting as might be available for our 1st round pick and we are likely to be looking for a KPP.

  2. #194
    Lucky we get a 20% discount because whenever "academy" gets mentioned the media pumps up player by 200%.

    "Swans miss out on first shot at top prospect Ben Davis" - a kid who was that far off it last year that he didn't even bother nominating for the draft. Clearly if we thought he was any chance for this year we would have at least had him nominate then.

    He does OK as a 19 y/o playing in the U/18's and suddenly he's a 'top prospect'.

    Clearly we would have known he's not eligible, so it's not as if we would have suddenly thought he was a gun and enquired with the AFL. More likely a journalist just fishing for an academy story and picking up on the fact Abe is his brother.

    Most likely he's a rookie prospect anyway so if we want him we'd get him anyway.

  3. #195
    Some big deal being made out of jacob hopper. But to put it in perspective leeton has 3 nrl players running around at the moment and 1 , 1 game afl player.

  4. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    Lucky we get a 20% discount because whenever "academy" gets mentioned the media pumps up player by 200%.

    "Swans miss out on first shot at top prospect Ben Davis" - a kid who was that far off it last year that he didn't even bother nominating for the draft. Clearly if we thought he was any chance for this year we would have at least had him nominate then.

    He does OK as a 19 y/o playing in the U/18's and suddenly he's a 'top prospect'.

    Clearly we would have known he's not eligible, so it's not as if we would have suddenly thought he was a gun and enquired with the AFL. More likely a journalist just fishing for an academy story and picking up on the fact Abe is his brother.

    Most likely he's a rookie prospect anyway so if we want him we'd get him anyway.
    The best way for the Academy debate to go away is for us to really start producing quality in numbers and losing more than we keep.

  5. #197
    If anyone wants any more evidence of how ridiculous the Academy is rigged in its set up for GWS need only look at the current Under 18 Squad that his torched both Tasmania and Queensland in this years championships.

    It's scary stuff when you consider how much we invest at the Swans.

    Of the 28 players on the list 21 are from GWS with our five consisting of five from Sydney and one from Illawarra and one from Port Macquarie.

    Of the 12 best player listings 10 were GWS players - Angus Baker from North Shore and Hamish MacDonald from Illawarra being the exceptions.

    Then you look at the location of the GWS Boys. Not one from Western Sydney of course but they do have three from Canberra - that proves my point re the ACT as a fertile zone, they get three to our five despite us having 12 as many people.

    They do have some country kids above the Murrumbidgee Line in areas that I still consider fair game as development - Jacob Turner from Temora (NRL heartland and home of Trent Barrett and Pale Face Adios) and Nathan Richards from Griffith. I'd also throw in Isaac Cumming from Broken Hill

    So in a decent carve up that's six GWS boys and seven Swans

    Now look at where the other 15 come from:

    8 from Albury or right on the border - 8 kids, not of who play for the NSW/ACT Rams in the TAC Cup with one kid playing for Sandringham
    1 from the Northern Jets - how the F does he qualify?
    4 from Wagga and thereabouts
    1 from Henty (halfway between Albuty and Wagga
    1 from Wentworth who plays for the Bendigo Pioneers

    The system is a joke!!!!

  6. #198
    Travelling Swannie!! mcs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mug Punter View Post
    If anyone wants any more evidence of how ridiculous the Academy is rigged in its set up for GWS need only look at the current Under 18 Squad that his torched both Tasmania and Queensland in this years championships.

    It's scary stuff when you consider how much we invest at the Swans.

    Of the 28 players on the list 21 are from GWS with our five consisting of five from Sydney and one from Illawarra and one from Port Macquarie.

    Of the 12 best player listings 10 were GWS players - Angus Baker from North Shore and Hamish MacDonald from Illawarra being the exceptions.

    Then you look at the location of the GWS Boys. Not one from Western Sydney of course but they do have three from Canberra - that proves my point re the ACT as a fertile zone, they get three to our five despite us having 12 as many people.

    They do have some country kids above the Murrumbidgee Line in areas that I still consider fair game as development - Jacob Turner from Temora (NRL heartland and home of Trent Barrett and Pale Face Adios) and Nathan Richards from Griffith. I'd also throw in Isaac Cumming from Broken Hill

    So in a decent carve up that's six GWS boys and seven Swans

    Now look at where the other 15 come from:

    8 from Albury or right on the border - 8 kids, not of who play for the NSW/ACT Rams in the TAC Cup with one kid playing for Sandringham
    1 from the Northern Jets - how the F does he qualify?
    4 from Wagga and thereabouts
    1 from Henty (halfway between Albuty and Wagga
    1 from Wentworth who plays for the Bendigo Pioneers

    The system is a joke!!!!
    That's pretty damning evidence there Mug of just what is wrong with the current Academy setup.
    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

  7. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Mug Punter View Post
    If anyone wants any more evidence of how ridiculous the Academy is rigged in its set up for GWS need only look at the current Under 18 Squad that his torched both Tasmania and Queensland in this years championships.

    It's scary stuff when you consider how much we invest at the Swans.

    Of the 28 players on the list 21 are from GWS with our five consisting of five from Sydney and one from Illawarra and one from Port Macquarie.

    Of the 12 best player listings 10 were GWS players - Angus Baker from North Shore and Hamish MacDonald from Illawarra being the exceptions.

    Then you look at the location of the GWS Boys. Not one from Western Sydney of course but they do have three from Canberra - that proves my point re the ACT as a fertile zone, they get three to our five despite us having 12 as many people.

    They do have some country kids above the Murrumbidgee Line in areas that I still consider fair game as development - Jacob Turner from Temora (NRL heartland and home of Trent Barrett and Pale Face Adios) and Nathan Richards from Griffith. I'd also throw in Isaac Cumming from Broken Hill

    So in a decent carve up that's six GWS boys and seven Swans

    Now look at where the other 15 come from:

    8 from Albury or right on the border - 8 kids, not of who play for the NSW/ACT Rams in the TAC Cup with one kid playing for Sandringham
    1 from the Northern Jets - how the F does he qualify?
    4 from Wagga and thereabouts
    1 from Henty (halfway between Albuty and Wagga
    1 from Wentworth who plays for the Bendigo Pioneers

    The system is a joke!!!!
    This is brilliant for the Swans. This will antagonise Eddie and put GWS in Eddie's firing line. This will take the heat out of the Swans academy.

    Pridham needs to stay out of the argument and let Eddie and Shepard duke it out.

  8. #200
    Veterans List Ludwig's Avatar
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    After the problems the AFL are having with the GC, I think they'll be happy to see a GWS success story. The AFL can always point to how difficult it is to get an expansion club up and running and justify the concessions given to GWS as necessary for securing the long term success of the league.

    The plethora of good players coming out of the GWS academy zones has ensured a steady flow of their Victorians back home. There will be some more this year. Making the claim that the Giants are too good is saying that only Victorian sides have the right to challenge for premierships. Making the expansion clubs competitive quickly was a goal off the league, which now has one success and one failure in that regard, although GC have been hurt by injury and several other problems.

  9. #201
    Travelling Swannie!! mcs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post
    After the problems the AFL are having with the GC, I think they'll be happy to see a GWS success story. The AFL can always point to how difficult it is to get an expansion club up and running and justify the concessions given to GWS as necessary for securing the long term success of the league.

    The plethora of good players coming out of the GWS academy zones has ensured a steady flow of their Victorians back home. There will be some more this year. Making the claim that the Giants are too good is saying that only Victorian sides have the right to challenge for premierships. Making the expansion clubs competitive quickly was a goal off the league, which now has one success and one failure in that regard, although GC have been hurt by injury and several other problems.
    I get your point Ludwig, but with the talent flowing to GWS, they won't just have a premiership 'window' like other teams, they'll have a potential premiership 'generation' - the place is already loaded with talent, and they are going to keep heaping it in. You are right that there will be a continuing steady flow of Victorians back home, but GWS are going to have such a ridiculously deep list, which they will continually be able to replenish by trading out the excess players and replacing them with more top end talent.

    Im all for making teams competitive in the shorter term, but GWS, if managed well, will have the chance to dominate the league for a very long time on the basis of the concessions they have and will keep getting if there is not adjustments made.
    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

  10. #202
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    The Riverina has always had a strong footy tradition, in the old Teal Cup state comp they had their own team (who were most intimidating!)- but I don't remember them constantly having multiple first round picks coming from the area every year, which seems to be what people are suggesting is the case now. I'm guessing that means that the Academy is helping there?

    I'm sure there will be improvements in kids coming from Western Sydney, but it will take time- the academy really hasn't been in place for that long in an area that didn't have a lot of high level training available to kids.
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  11. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Mug Punter View Post
    If anyone wants any more evidence of how ridiculous the Academy is rigged in its set up for GWS need only look at the current Under 18 Squad that his torched both Tasmania and Queensland in this years championships.

    It's scary stuff when you consider how much we invest at the Swans.

    Of the 28 players on the list 21 are from GWS with our five consisting of five from Sydney and one from Illawarra and one from Port Macquarie.

    Of the 12 best player listings 10 were GWS players - Angus Baker from North Shore and Hamish MacDonald from Illawarra being the exceptions.

    Then you look at the location of the GWS Boys. Not one from Western Sydney of course but they do have three from Canberra - that proves my point re the ACT as a fertile zone, they get three to our five despite us having 12 as many people.

    They do have some country kids above the Murrumbidgee Line in areas that I still consider fair game as development - Jacob Turner from Temora (NRL heartland and home of Trent Barrett and Pale Face Adios) and Nathan Richards from Griffith. I'd also throw in Isaac Cumming from Broken Hill

    So in a decent carve up that's six GWS boys and seven Swans

    Now look at where the other 15 come from:

    8 from Albury or right on the border - 8 kids, not of who play for the NSW/ACT Rams in the TAC Cup with one kid playing for Sandringham
    1 from the Northern Jets - how the F does he qualify?
    4 from Wagga and thereabouts
    1 from Henty (halfway between Albuty and Wagga
    1 from Wentworth who plays for the Bendigo Pioneers

    The system is a joke!!!!
    I think is there is bit of bias towards GWS affiliated players in the selection of the 18's team, when I looked at the team I remembered thinking that there is a large percentage of GWS kids selected.
    For example Harry Carr (from the Swans Academy), who was in the wider 18's squad cant get a run but was good enough to play a couple of NEAFL games last year and was called up for the NEAFL last weekend.

  12. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by mcs View Post
    I get your point Ludwig, but with the talent flowing to GWS, they won't just have a premiership 'window' like other teams, they'll have a potential premiership 'generation' - the place is already loaded with talent, and they are going to keep heaping it in. You are right that there will be a continuing steady flow of Victorians back home, but GWS are going to have such a ridiculously deep list, which they will continually be able to replenish by trading out the excess players and replacing them with more top end talent.

    Im all for making teams competitive in the shorter term, but GWS, if managed well, will have the chance to dominate the league for a very long time on the basis of the concessions they have and will keep getting if there is not adjustments made.
    Thats rubish. Premierships are built on more than draft picks. Its the melbourne media's obsession with draft picks that makes all this BS up. If that was the case, then Melbourne the tankers would be flag favourites.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mcs View Post
    That's pretty damning evidence there Mug of just what is wrong with the current Academy setup.
    Mcs and Mug Punter. The two resident baboons agreeing on something stupid. Who would have thunk it.

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