24 players used - good or bad?

[Phil Tarbox]

Sydney have had the lowest number of players used so far this year. It should be a good thing, but I'm not so sure.

Paul Roos has always had the mantra about not dragging players for making errors, but allowing them to play on and hopefully atone for it, and learn for it. I think most of our list has benefited from this attitidue, particularly players that hadn't been getting much of a go previously eg Craig Bolton, Buchanan.

I think the time has now come where this attitude no longer applies, if we are going to move forwards. All bar 1 player from last years team is at the club, along with most from Roos inital list of 2003 - but it still appears the same attitude is being applied.

Surely this group of players are mature enough and need not be treated with kid gloves. If you don't perform you'll be dragged, and you'll be dropped.

Hunger needs to be injected into this playing group, and clearly no players posistion is under pressure (depending if you believe Roosy's rhetoric in the paper today).

From what I read on these boards there is talent waiting to get into the side.

Hunger to play is what we need - not complacency.

[TheHood]

Sounds like Roosy does agree with you suggesting it as being more like a "badge of honour".

If he is serious and seriously jack of the form of some players and their injuries etc, then he will be ending Crouchy's unbeaten run.

Didak tore our little mate apart and maybe that was a mis-match as I reckon Dempster would have been tailor made to quell that freak.

[Jeffers1984]

It just kills me to see good teams that are up with us in Collingwood and West Coast bravely blooding their youngsters so they can mix it up with the experienced guys. It seems to have paid off for them too and have found good youngsters in Thomas, Pendlebury, Waters, Hurn and Grayham all taken in the last 1-3 drafts.

[TheHood]

Originally posted by Jeffers1984
It just kills me to see good teams that are up with us in Collingwood and West Coast bravely blooding their youngsters so they can mix it up with the experienced guys. It seems to have paid off for them too and have found good youngsters in Thomas, Pendlebury, Waters, Hurn and Grayham all taken in the last 1-3 drafts.

Too true and add Priddis to that lot as well.

[floppinab]

Thing is of course you can only back a player so many times. The message has to be "I'm not going drag you to the bench if you @@@@-up, you won't be dropped straight away, BUT, you'll get x many chances, we'll look at how your going then. If you do get dropped after that it ain't the end of the world, put it together in the seconds and you'll get your chance again"

[Phil Tarbox]

Originally posted by Jeffers1984
It just kills me to see good teams that are up with us in Collingwood and West Coast bravely blooding their youngsters so they can mix it up with the experienced guys. It seems to have paid off for them too and have found good youngsters in Thomas, Pendlebury, Waters, Hurn and Grayham all taken in the last 1-3 drafts.

Agree entirely - we are only starting to see McVeigh and Malceski string together a few games this year, and spend some time on the ground, not just warming the pine.

Some may argue that these clubs are playing their first round picks who are already quality, and that Sydney haven't had any first round picks, opting to trade. McVeigh was pick 5 and is only getting a good go some 3 - 4 years later - although there may be some doubts over his body.

Seeing the new players come through keeps the fans excited and interested as well.

[barry]

24 players used sounds good: No injuries.

Except when you couple it with 12 players not training. Then its poor list management.

[Gary]

Roos & Co have got it wrong IMO...yes I'm no-one...but it looked so obvious that we were carrying some passengers & injuries & that some judicious blooding (not Dempster) should have been happening weeks ago.

[Captain]

That's one thing I'm sick of - blooding youth seems to always include Dempster, Bevan and Vogels.

Surely the likes of Moore, Schmidt, Willoughby, Grundy would be 'blooding youth'

[NMWBloods]

Sheedy observed that we have only 29 players on our list that have played senior football. He said it was a very unusual list and we'd be in some trouble if we get a number of injuries.

[Phil Tarbox]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Sheedy observed that we have only 29 players on our list that have played senior football. He said it was a very unusual list and we'd be in some trouble if we get a number of injuries.

Very interesting point. Richmond have used 39 players I think - and can only be the better for it (they can't get much worse!)

[SimonH]

Originally posted by Phil Tarbox
Very interesting point. Richmond have used 39 players I think - and can only be the better for it (they can't get much worse!) I would be amazed if they'd reached 39, but if it's true: nope, they're not better for it. Anyone with too much time on their hands could go through the records and establish that
lots of players used = failure
few players used = success
with a pretty reasonable correlation.

As for 'blooding youngsters': if you're playing more than 30-odd players annually for any reason other than injury, you're not blooding youngsters: you're constantly rearranging deckchairs. You blood youngsters by putting them in the side and giving them a solid block of senior experience in a supportive and stable team while they learn what it's like at the highest level (e.g. LRT 2005, Malceski 2006).

The 'throw 'em in the deep end and see who swims' approach just means that you get a number of avoidable drownings.

[swansrock4eva]

I think there's a happy medium with that line though. In the long term, more players with experience can be a good thing because it means there's a less shell-shocked second tier waiting to be played. In a single season, while 24 players at the half-way mark is awesome in one respect, in our case it seems that there needs to be more players with game time because we're clearly carrying injuries that are costing us. If it were 24 uninjured, 100% fit players then it would be a different scenario.

Stats gurus, any idea/way to find out what's the average number of senior games for a whole playing list that's won the premiership?

[NMWBloods]

I think you'd want to use about 28-30 players each year. This gives you a core of 22, plus 4-6 backups plus 2-4 new guys to gradually introduce.

This seems to be roughly what the Swans did last year and what Brisbane did. The Swans are not doing that this year.

[Gary]

We're not doing it, & it's hard to reason why.
Our recruits have been obvious lemons for almost the whole year, & our "first (only!) reserves" (i.e. Dempster & Beaven) have been far from impressive apart from Dempsters goal from the boundary against North.
The early stated idea of playing Vogels FB, & releasing Leo should have been tried well before this, it would not have been able to damage our 1 / 3 start much! The Malceski / LRT scenario is not really accurate, with both playing earlier than stated, & showing promise that kept them motivated.
Now we might do something with some difficult games coming up...I don't get the timing...but changes must be made. Willo better have a good game quick too.