Doyle

[barry]

Didnt get much game time, but did ok. Had a purple patch about half way through the last quarter. Good mark, nice pass, nearly another speccy 30m out.

God, if he stays fit for the rest of the year, our ruck division is 2nd to none.

[ugg]

One step at a time barry, I'm just happy he got through unscatched. Anything else was a bonus.

[Dave]

And he didn't get injured;)

[Glenn]

Could get injured in the sheds after the game ;)

Pleasing game for Doyle, and hopefully can get a string of first team apperances

[Carolyn]

He could have had a goal...if he held onto the ball for a mark when Kirk kicked it to him...however, he had an okay game.

[Thunder Shaker]

I'm pleased he got to play a game. He's had so much bad luck with injuries that he's only managed 41 games so far.

If he gets to 50 games, it should go on the banner. While 50 games is not normally good enough for a banner, I think we should make a special case for Doyle because he's persevered for so long.

[Tuco]

I thougtht it was more than promising from the big fella. Very happy with what I saw today.

[Nico]

The General is back.

[lachlanc]

Contrast in athleticism with Chambers was remarkable. If he can stay fit, could be a significant X factor just at the right time.

[royboy42]

Can we get over the injury thing with Doyle?? Does anyone think he decides to go out and get hurt??
He was a strength before that Port @@@@ Burgoyne tried unfairly to end his career at the SCG? And has busted his gut to get back since!
His game today was exactly what Roos wanted..I would LOVE to be here praising him on GF night..and Ihave a sneaky feeling that I just might!!!

[dimelb]

Had a good game, and seemed to enjoy being part of the PM. I smiled when I watched him being photographed with a diminutive older guy - real odd couple.
Great to see him back - he knows how to play and IMHO is the best single change to the lineup since the season began.

[ScottH]

He even managed to get a handball off laying flat on his stomach, with a demon sitting on him.

[barry]

Originally posted by lachlanc
Contrast in athleticism with Chambers was remarkable. If he can stay fit, could be a significant X factor just at the right time.

Serious? He has all the athleticism of a block of granite.
He's above Chambers because he has good footy skills. Kick, mark, handball.

[elroy67]

Originally posted by lachlanc
Contrast in athleticism with Chambers was remarkable.

Had to laugh at the MMM commentary with regards to a chase down the Southern Stand wing. Something like "..and Doyle haring off after his opponent at 1.5 km/h"

[is2SWaNz]

Originally posted by elroy67
Had to laugh at the MMM commentary with regards to a chase down the Southern Stand wing. Something like "..and Doyle haring off after his opponent at 1.5 km/h"

i remember hearing that... triple M also said "...and the giraffe has a bounce and runs in slow motion..." it's funny!!! =D

[goswannie14]

I thought he was servicable and promising. I think he may have also had more possessions in 1 game than Chambers did in all his games this year.

[giant]

I thought it was a very useful first up effort - lovely tap to McV in Q4 was almost Ballesque!

Huge improvement on Torture already.

[Mike_B]

Good to see him back out there and unscathed. We will need 2 ruckmen going into the finals and having Doyle out there as backup ruckman is our best option.

For the stats minded, he also had more possessions than Jolly!

[SimonH]

Has a penetrating kick, too, which is a turn-up because subconsciously you think whenever you see the ball in a ruckman's hands, "This won't go longer than 40 metres."

Only the second game ever (and the first full game) where Doyle has been in the same side as Jolly. Was I the only one wishing there was more difference in their numbers (15/16)? Is number 11 still free?

Geez, having 2 guys in the team who can actually ruck makes a difference. See, for example: season 2005.

[melbloods78]

looks much better prospect than chambers or having richards and LRT ruck. I pulled out a vid from 2000 to watch over dinner tonight and he was playing in that game!!!

for someone on the sidelines for so long he hasn't done much work on his upper body comparing his frame to 2000

[ScottH]

Originally posted by Mike_B
For the stats minded, he also had more possessions than Jolly! Thats never hard!!

[goswannie14]

Originally posted by melbloods78
looks much better prospect than chambers or having richards and LRT ruck. I pulled out a vid from 2000 to watch over dinner tonight and he was playing in that game!!!

for someone on the sidelines for so long he hasn't done much work on his upper body comparing his frame to 2000 He looks like an old fashioned ruckman, really tall and solid. Sort of man mountain type.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Is Donk, Is Good!

:D

[Danzar]

Good performance although I had my doubts in the first quarter. When he came on the Dees seemed to get the better of us and looked dangerous. Roos took him off pretty quickly, whioch then settled the game.

Pretty good after that. Will reserve judgment until next week I think.

[barry]

Originally posted by Danzar
Good performance although I had my doubts in the first quarter. When he came on the Dees seemed to get the better of us and looked dangerous. Roos took him off pretty quickly, whioch then settled the game.

Pretty good after that. Will reserve judgment until next week I think.

Yeah he seemed quite tentative in the first bounce, but by the last quarter he was flying.

I guess I wasnt the only one cringing with fear when he went for that fly in the forward line. Dont get too far off the ground Doyley!

[Danzar]

Originally posted by barry
Yeah he seemed quite tentative in the first bounce, but by the last quarter he was flying.

I guess I wasnt the only one cringing with fear when he went for that fly in the forward line. Dont get too far off the ground Doyley!
Makes you wonder whether the view on Spida will change if Doyle settles in by season-end.

You can't have three ruckmen, you can't demote Doyle if he's playing well and I think that a good part of Jolly's improvement is due to the looming Spida issue......

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by Danzar
Makes you wonder whether the view on Spida will change if Doyle settles in by season-end.
Makes you wonder whetgher Spida talk may have given Jolly a little extra impetus over the last few weeks.

[barry]

Another question is, how many games will Doyle have to play this year to get his contract extended ?

3, 4, all season ?

[SimonH]

Originally posted by barry
Another question is, how many games will Doyle have to play this year to get his contract extended ?

3, 4, all season ? Therein lies the problem. To say that it would be bastard-like to play Doyle for the rest of the year (if a miracle occurs and he remains fit), and then delist him, would be an understatement. I can understand the utilitarian (i.e. bastard) 'use 'em and throw 'em away' mentality, but if Sydney had written Doyley off, it should have just bitten the bullet and played Chambers/Richards/Shaw/whoever for the rest of the year. He must still have a good chance of being on the 2007 'wanted list' if he can turn it on, and stay on his feet, in the remaining games.

Barry Hall's interview (sorry: too lazy to do link) where he said by way of promoting the Spida deal, 'We definitely need to bring in a ruckman at the end of the year; you can't make it with just one ruckman', was just bizarre. We've got five specialist ruckmen on our list, plus a couple of other 195cm+ kids in the rookies! How do you reckon all of them (apart from Jolly) would feel when they read a senior player saying that?

Offering Doyle as part of a trade (presumably for Spida) is another question entirely. Anyone is potentially tradeable if you think you'll get greater value incoming than outgoing. Perhaps a worthy poll question come the end of the finals: Doyle or Spida?

[swantastic]

Doyles stats / Jolly stats
Kicks=3/ 4
HB=3 / 1
Out of D50=0 / 0
Into F50=1 / 0
Marks=2 / 2
Clearences=0 / 2
Clangers=2 / 2
Frees F=0 / 0
Frees A=1 / 1
TOG=36/ 86
Hitouts=9 / 37
Jolly had 50 more minutes on ground and didnt fare much better accept in the hit outs.

[liz]

Originally posted by swantastic

Jolly had 50 more minutes on ground and didnt fare much better accept in the hit outs.

That's a pretty significant "accept" (sic) given that competing in the ruck is the primary purpose of a ruckman, particularly the way Roos seems to want them to play.

[Sanecow]

For those hitout stats to have any meaning, you need to know how many hitouts they each contested.

[swantastic]

Originally posted by liz
That's a pretty significant "accept" (sic) given that competing in the ruck is the primary purpose of a ruckman, particularly the way Roos seems to want them to play. He was on the ground more than twice the time there for he should have had at least 12 possies IMO.But he did extremely well in the ruck,coming good at the right time of the season.

[goswannie14]

Originally posted by swantastic
He was on the ground more than twice the time there for he should have had at least 12 possies IMO.But he did extremely well in the ruck,coming good at the right time of the season. Personally I think if a ruckman wins the hit outs, that's great. If he does well around the play then that's a bonus.

The exception was in the 70's when "Teaser" won the brownlow as a ruckman, sort of in the Goodes mould of rucking, where he won the hitouts and was dominant around the ground.

[swantastic]

Originally posted by goswannie14
Personally I think if a ruckman wins the hit outs, that's great. If he does well around the play then that's a bonus.

The exception was in the 70's when "Teaser" won the brownlow as a ruckman, sort of in the Goodes mould of rucking, where he won the hitouts and was dominant around the ground. GS14 a lot of youngens on here wouldnt even know who GT was.They even named a car after him.

[Danzar]

His problem is simply time. He needs it to prove match fitness, and in the words of Chow Chicker, 'stamp his authority'.

But, he has very little in the way of time, given how long it's taken hime just to get back to this starting point.

Sydney needs a highly experienced ruckman, such as Spida, so that we can develop the rest of our ruck prospects. Clearly, Jolly would be project A, with Shaw project B (IMHO).

To say we have five specialists is correct on technicality only. There's not enouigh experience at a senior level.

The problem is, if you put Spida in, with Jolly as backup (you can't play Spida as backup), you eliminate Doyle's chances at developing himself.

It's a massive dilemma. I hope a solution is found. I'd love to see Spida in, supported by Jolly, with Jolly taking over when Spida retires.

But that would almost certainly mean sacrificing Doyle, whc ih I would hate to see, unless an alternative position can be found.....interesting.....

[goswannie14]

Originally posted by swantastic
GS14 a lot of youngens on here wouldnt even know who GT was.They even named a car after him. When I lived in St Arnaud I occasionally went to Rotary meetings at Donald. There was a huge picture of the mark Teaser took against North Melb at Arden St in round 22 1977. I remember because I was there, and our win that day got us into the finals for the first time since 1970.

The shot was of Teaser with the ball in his hands, almost parallel with the ground at shoulder height. Ohh the memories......:)

Sorry I am digressing. I think Doyle has made a good start, and as long as both he and Jolly win the hit outs, I'm happy. First use on the ball on more than 50% of occasions is a great advantage.

[Snowy]

Robbie and co. were a big wrap for him on the couch tonight.

[liz]

Originally posted by Danzar

To say we have five specialists is correct on technicality only. There's not enouigh experience at a senior level.



But you're never going to get senior experience into players if you don't give them a go. If we get Spida next year and he and Jolly carry the ruck between them, where will we be in two years time when Spida retires? Still with no other rucks with any senior experience.

I realise the club is in that window of opportunity when it thinks it can remain competitive for another couple of years, but I hope they can continue to get senior games into the inexperienced, but quality, players languishing on the list. Otherwise we'll land up like Brisbane and Port in a couple of years time.

And if we wind back the clock to 1996, Stafford came into that season with barely a handful of senior games to his name but overnight became a very very handy ruckman, and was a significant part of the march to September.

[ROK Lobster]

In terms of injuries, Everitt and Doyle are about as likely as each other to be useless in 2007. If both stay injury free Doyle will be better value than Everitt next year. Spida has had it. Doyle would be about half the price of Everitt too. The Spida window of opportunity has passed - stick with the Donk.

[ScottH]

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
In terms of injuries, Everitt and Doyle are about as likely as each other to be useless in 2007. If both stay injury free Doyle will be better value than Everitt next year. Spida has had it. Doyle would be about half the price of Everitt too. The Spida window of opportunity has passed - stick with the Donk. Yep, was thinking the same thing this morning. I heard that the hawks players are trying to convince him to stay. Better the devil you know. (and cheaper)

[barry]

If Jolly is out No.1.
I think we could scrape together a No.2 out of:
Doyle (who may play 10% of matches)
Gardiner (who we recruit, and plays 50% of matches)
Chambers (who can do the other 40%)

Once Shaw/Erikson start pushing for selection, one or two of Doyle, Chambers or Gardiner gets delisted.

[ScottH]

Originally posted by barry
If Jolly is out No.1.
I think we could scrape together a No.2 out of:
Doyle (who may play 10% of matches)
Gardiner (who we recruit, and plays 50% of matches)
Chambers (who can do the other 40%)

Once Shaw/Erikson start pushing for selection, one or two of Doyle, Chambers or Gardiner gets delisted. Gardiner has indicated he wants to play in Victoria, apprarently.

[Old Royboy]

Stick with the Donk. I get the heeby geebies even thinking about signing a 32yo to a two year big dollar contract which would likely be a transit lounge to retirement. Draft picks can be put to much better use, especially this year. A good ruck coach can teach our lot just as well as Spida. If the Donk falls over, Shaw gets an early start. He?s a big boy already, will be bigger come next year and I reckon will be ready. .

[Danzar]

Originally posted by liz
But you're never going to get senior experience into players if you don't give them a go. If we get Spida next year and he and Jolly carry the ruck between them, where will we be in two years time when Spida retires? Still with no other rucks with any senior experience.

I realise the club is in that window of opportunity when it thinks it can remain competitive for another couple of years, but I hope they can continue to get senior games into the inexperienced, but quality, players languishing on the list. Otherwise we'll land up like Brisbane and Port in a couple of years time.

And if we wind back the clock to 1996, Stafford came into that season with barely a handful of senior games to his name but overnight became a very very handy ruckman, and was a significant part of the march to September.
It depends on the strategy. If you want a slower, team development approach (such as the one Brisbane knocked back in lieu of three premierships) then you don't go with Spida. Instead, you play your inexperienced rucks and let them develop over time.

If you want a faster 'win-more-premierships' strategy (such as the one adopted by Brisbane between 2001-2003) then you get an experienced ruckman then create a clear succession plan.

OPTION ONE - Let's go at it and get more premierships.
1. Everitt.
2. Jolly.

Everitt retires and you move to:

1. Jolly
2. Doyle OR Shaw etc etc

OPTION TWO - Slow development:

You forgoe Everitt and go:

1. Jolly.
2. Doyle etc etc

That's the dilmemma. Go with option one and you all but kill any chances of Doyle making it with the Swans, at least.

Option Two and you're taking a punt that Doyle will step up. If not, you're stuck with a whole bunch of very inexperienced ruckman that will take even longer to develop. Hoping that one of those guys will surprise and immediately turn into a star (such as what we're seeing with Grundy) is a big punt and could only ever form a small, secondary part of any team plan.

Bear in mind, the rest of the team can't wait around for a well-developed ruck for too long - they age. Timing's critical.

Just hypothesising.

[wheels27]

Originally posted by Old Royboy
I get the heeby geebies even thinking about signing a 32yo to a two year big dollar contract which would likely be a transit lounge to retirement.

We've got a good record there haven't we :(

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by Danzar
Sydney needs a highly experienced ruckman, such as Spida, so that we can develop the rest of our ruck prospects.

We have one, his name is Jason Ball, and his advantage over Spider is that he allows us to get senior games into 2 younger ruckmen at the same time.

[goswannie14]

Originally posted by Ruck'n'Roll
We have one, his name is Jason Ball, and his advantage over Spider is that he allows us to get senior games into 2 younger ruckmen at the same time. That appears to be the one part of the equation that we have failed to mention until now. We have the eperience of Ball as a ruck coach.

[graystar]

How about I stir this up a bit. What is greg stafford up to down at richmond? Do you think he might be allowed back?

[ScottH]

Originally posted by graystar
How about I stir this up a bit. What is greg stafford up to down at richmond? Do you think he might be allowed back? He is, possibly, in his final year, so I would think not.

[liz]

Originally posted by graystar
How about I stir this up a bit. What is greg stafford up to down at richmond? Do you think he might be allowed back?

Even apart from the fact he's already indicated this will be his last year, why would we want him? He's struggled to get a game in the Richmond team. It's not like they have lots of alternative options as back-up to Simmonds.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Richmond may be dispensing with Ray Hall, is there any room in our squad for WoyWoy's gretest footballing export?

[DST]

Originally posted by Ruck'n'Roll
Richmond may be dispensing with Ray Hall, is there any room in our squad for WoyWoy's gretest footballing export?

Ray had his opportunity to join us two years ago and choose not to.

Tough luck, he missed out in playing in a premiership, although it is debateable whether he would have squeezed into our back-line as the third tall defender or whether we might not have taken Darren Jolly to fill the second ruck spot.

DST
:D

[caj23]

wouldve saved us the 1st round pick we used on richards at least

[Albert Park]

Originally posted by lachlanc
Contrast in athleticism with Chambers was remarkable. If he can stay fit, could be a significant X factor just at the right time.
Yair/No , Probabaly. But Chambers is resigning due to "lack of Passion" (his or ours???) Although I heard a whisper that he was moving near north to take up as F/F of the Buladelah Barbarians if only they can find 17 guys of equal skill to pull on the boots and have a dob
But it's not a very loud whisper!