Reserves - Serious question

[Nico]

No reserves last weekend, from the scores looks like a bye.

Is there only 7 teams in the comp, then if so we are in for a few byes in the season. A real issue as far as fitness goes.

Something must be done to ensure we play in a stronger comp.

[Damien]

I agree with the comp situation, but I have it on good authority that Saturday's training session for the reserves was one hell of a tough one.

[Glenn]

Made to watch the Adelaide game live??? :eek:

[Damien]

Made to watch the Adelaide game live??? :eek:

LOL The game was punishment on top of.

[swan_song]

It's perhaps my greatest whinge (no. hang on, kicking skills is...no, it's goalkicking... no, it's always leading to the pockets, no....well you get the picture)...but the Canberra comp does the swans no favours. A fifth/sixth/seventh rate comp is no place for aspiring Agraders to hone skills. Pete Sampras or Jimmy Connors didn't get to be world no 1s by playing their matches against those in the Oshkosh Wisconsin tennis league. You improve by playing against good opposition. Winning matches against far inferior opposition by 15, 20, 30 goals is no test.
I believe the bum-sniffers will be fielding 2s next season as curtain raisers, and I think it time the AFL bit the cost bullet and reintroduced proper AFL reserves... I'd like to think that gone are the days when Sydney opted for the Canberra league cos they couldn't afford to fly players down to Port Melbourne. Bring back the proper 2s!

[SimonH]

Three and more years ago, Canberra was a good test for our young players. It plainly no longer is, and the bye in the 7-team comp (with another virtual bye against the not-up-to-it Canberra Wildcats coming up this week) is the final straw. Alternatives have been discussed at length. A 12-team AFL reserves comp (no SA or WA) would be okay; a stronger NSW/ACT 'combined league' might provide more of a challenge, but if it stretched to 8 sides it may still be short of the mark on quality at the moment. If Luffy's to be believed (and surely he is!) Sydney have scoped out the SANFL, which is a little odd, but the quality of comp is certainly there. The VFL is now in substantial flux, Port Melbourne have spent a bucketload buying its own players over the last year, and it would split the team up, so it's a less attractive option for us (and we're less attractive to them).

A more ambitious plan would be for the top 2 or 3 Canberra sides, the better Qld sides, most VFL teams, maybe 2 combined/joint venture sides from greater Sydney, a southern NSW/Riverina side, the Tassie Devils and any financially strong Tassie club sides to join together and form an Eastern States Football League which would span 2 or 3 Divisions. AFL clubs could decide whether they want to organise an AFL 2nds comp, or field a reserves side in the ESFL. Someone would have to pay for it, o' course.

[Bloody Hell]

Three and more years ago, Canberra was a good test for our young players. It plainly no longer is, and the bye in the 7-team comp (with another virtual bye against the not-up-to-it Canberra Wildcats coming up this week) is the final straw. Alternatives have been discussed at length. A 12-team AFL reserves comp (no SA or WA) would be okay; a stronger NSW/ACT 'combined league' might provide more of a challenge, but if it stretched to 8 sides it may still be short of the mark on quality at the moment. If Luffy's to be believed (and surely he is!) Sydney have scoped out the SANFL, which is a little odd, but the quality of comp is certainly there. The VFL is now in substantial flux, Port Melbourne have spent a bucketload buying its own players over the last year, and it would split the team up, so it's a less attractive option for us (and we're less attractive to them).

A more ambitious plan would be for the top 2 or 3 Canberra sides, the better Qld sides, most VFL teams, maybe 2 combined/joint venture sides from greater Sydney, a southern NSW/Riverina side, the Tassie Devils and any financially strong Tassie club sides to join together and form an Eastern States Football League which would span 2 or 3 Divisions. AFL clubs could decide whether they want to organise an AFL 2nds comp, or field a reserves side in the ESFL. Someone would have to pay for it, o' course.
Even if they managed to play against other AFL teams reserves it would be great. They have nothing at the moment to test their metal. If they made a NSW/QLD/ACT comp with 6-8 teams that included the Swans, Lions and should a team be established in Canberra them too it would be worthwhile.

I prefer the AFL Two's as you suggest...but doubt the AFL would shell out for it and the clubs, the poorer ones anyway, couldn't afford it.

[smasher]

I must say that I am concerned by the amount of games being played by the twos.One game in the last three weeks!How are these guys being kept match fit?This is a massive problem for the club as while our seconds players are twiddling their thumbs,their peers are playing at VFL,WAFL,SAFL and Queensland seniors.They are consistantly playing againgst big bodied men.

[swans song]

from what i've seen the act league is not where our ressies should be.
Nothing against the teams in it but they just haven't got the stock to compete. we have 22 mostly 18-20yo fighting fit very skilful players.
Surely the other teams don't want to go out week in year out knowing they have no hope of winning a flag. Must be demoralising.
Playing weaker sides does not assist in improving their personal game.
It needs to fixed now for next season.

[stellation]

I'm sure lobsterboy put together a fairly solid scheme related to this last year, but I can't be bothered filtering through all the rubbish he posts to find the odd good piece (Scott/Frog- can we add a "search for serious posts only" option to the forum search? ;) ).
In the short term the quick fix for the Swans should be to organize matches against the Rams or a Sydney AFL (or ACTAFL or QLDAFL) regional rep team whenever they expect byes.

[SimonH]

This (http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/willoughbys-field-of-dreams-hard-to-find-on-sydneys-fringe/2007/04/20/1176697091051.html) article is a fascinating one that doesn't appear to have been posted here before. Oddly, I don't think it made it into the print edition of the SMH (not that I saw, anyway).

Sydney are well aware of the weaknesses of Canberra, but are keen to point to the one big strength (single team run by club where players play to Swans' plans) as well. Andrew Ireland's wistful, "It would be lovely if we were playing in as good a competition as the SANFL, but a perfect situation does not exist," presumably means that the AFL (or the SANFL) have said ixnay on the plan for the Swans 2s to become the 10th team in the SANFL.

The article is well-written. But the real test is how those youngsters whose only senior footy experience has been Canberra, have stepped up when they've cracked a spot in the Swans firsts and played AFL. It's surprising that it doesn't so much as give a cursory glance to that topic. By and large, the answer is 'surprisingly well'.

Incidentally, in the first 2 rounds of Glenelg's season Josh Willoughby has racked up 15 and 22 possessions in losing sides (both matches Glenelg were expected to win), not yet being named among Glenelg's best players. He could yet prove the Swans' hierarchy wrong and both get re-drafted and become an AFL regular, but at the age of 21, you wouldn't bet on it.

[hammo]

Incidentally, in the first 2 rounds of Glenelg's season Josh Willoughby has racked up 15 and 22 possessions in losing sides (both matches Glenelg were expected to win), not yet being named among Glenelg's best players. He could yet prove the Swans' hierarchy wrong and both get re-drafted and become an AFL regular, but at the age of 21, you wouldn't bet on it.
I was surprsied he wasn't rookie listed by one of the Adelaide sides. You'd say unlikely to crack it now.

[barry]

By definition a 2nd's AFL side will always be better than other teams, because if the other teams had decent players, they'd be in an AFL squad already.

I have two solutions for this:

- Quick fix:
2's play in the ACTFL, but every 3rd week we play a quality team from another part of the country in one off matches. Eg, last weekend we played an SANFL team. Ideally if we could find a comp WAFL, SANFL, VFL which also has a bye, we could play the bye team every 3rd week. This wouldnt burden us with too much travel, and the ACTFL would still keep its fitness up.

Long term fix:
Once the Roos move to the Gold Coast, and Western Sydney start up, the AFL will have 4 teams with sub-standard reserve comps. Thus a NSW/QLD rep comp will need to start:
Swans 2's
North (GC) 2's
Lions 2's
Western Sydney 2's
Rep ACT team
Rep Sydney team
Rep Brisbane team
Rep GC team.


4 teams in each state could stagger the draw so you play your local teams twice as often as interstate ones to minimize travel expense.

[Damien]

It's an interesting one, I have been thinking about it a bit since this thread started.

Since we have played in the ACTAFL, we have been Premiers and made a grand final at Senior AFL level, however we have no idea on the long term effects.

Playing together is a massive bonus that we have, but also winning must be a bonus as well.

So our reserves are training at an AFL level, executing game plans as devised by our coaching staff, all playing together and bonding and developing a winning culture. They also have the pressure of performing to try and nab a senior spot.

I think my solution would be (it has been mentioned in this thread already) to utilise the byes to play representative sides such as Sydney AFL etc, but continue with ACTAFL.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

In the short term the quick fix for the Swans should be to organize matches against the Rams or a Sydney AFL (or ACTAFL or QLDAFL) regional rep team whenever they expect byes.

This of course would also help the Rams. The ongoing lack of draftees from our junior state team is disgusting, why no outcry? Especially as Queenslnd is turning into a talent factory.

[Damien]

This of course would also help the Rams. The ongoing lack of draftees from our junior state team is disgusting, why no outcry? Especially as Queenslnd is turning into a talent factory.

Queensland have done well, but have benefited greatly from immigration from southern states, many AFL loving families are moved up there, helping to develop a very strong AFL culture in the South East. More often than not, kids drafted from QLD have been born in AFL states.

I agree though, the Rams should be back in the TAC Cup or playing some high quality games throughout the year.

[SimonH]

On the topic of Qld: the Blions 2nds (the unfortunately-named Suncoast Lions) do not play in a sub-standard comp. I think they failed to make the finals of the AFLQ last year (or just fell in and lost their first final), and have been thumped in their first 2 games this year.

Admittedly, the Blions have been decimated by injury in the last year or so, so would've been playing teams of over 50% top-ups on occasion; but even with a full list, there is no chance they would record 100+ point wins week-in, week-out in that comp.

Development of Aussie rules in Qld is already at where NSW hopes to be in 10 or 15 years' time.