Captain Kirk - where does he stand?

[liz]

Skilton and Kelly are - rightly - revered as legends of the Swans, players who inspired their team mates to lift a notch around them.

But where does Brett Kirk now fit into that 'heart and soul' standing at the club. I never had the privilege of seeing Skilton play, but 3 Charlies says something about the player he was. Kelly had an explosive pace, was an exceptional mark for his size and kicked goals - all things you'd never say about Kirk. Indeed, apart from his handballing, there is almost nothing about Kirky's skills that mark him out as an outstanding player.

Yet week after week, he gets the job done. Even while the Swans have been dreadful this year, no 31 has been playing his guts out, noticeably better than pretty much every other player out there in final terms when the exhaustion has set in. He just never stops.

Does he deserve to be spoken about as a leader on the ground in the same breath as Skilton and Kelly?

[swansrule100]

Comparing the two ive seen play, id have kelly slighty ahead in terms of leadership, i feel he was more likely to do the inspirational bit of play to inspire the side like bust a pack open or kick a goal, he had better skills than kirk and was a better player than kirk is so that helps.

But kirk just doesnt stop and is all guts so cant be too far behind i wouldnt think, I will always remember kirk smacking into cousins i think it was, late in the 05 grand final without any concern for himself, then he got cramp.

Be good to have both at their peak in the one side for their heart.

[stellation]

Is his lustre diminished by being one of three captains?

[hammo]

I honestly can't split Kelly and Kirk for their inspirational play these days.

Kelly obviously had more natural footballing ability going for him but Kirk lacks absolutely nothing on Kelly in terms of the tough close-in work. He never ceases to amaze.

[giant]

His second half in the GF last year put Kirk in elite company for mine. And he's had another fantastic year this season - leading our F&B I suspect?

Too tuff to pick between Kirk & Kell, but if forced to I still hold a torch for PK (who I saw at the ground today btw - no doubt here for Magic's celebrations).

[Red]

Given what's happened to Hall, and to a lesser extent Leo, I just wish they'd dispense with the 3-captain thing & make Kirk the outright captain. I think it'd be a fitting reward for the team's natural leader.

[swantastic]

Tuff call but on the two i have seen play i reckon their even,both PK and BK are and have been super players for our club.If i had too choose between the two of them to inspire the team i would pick Kirky(just) he is just like the energizer bunny he just go's and go's.If i had to choose on playing ability i would pick Paul for sure.

[Swansinger]

Given what's happened to Hall, and to a lesser extent Leo, I just wish they'd dispense with the 3-captain thing & make Kirk the outright captain. I think it'd be a fitting reward for the team's natural leader.

Here , here ! Never changed my belief that this man should have been captain , outright.

[Xie Shan]

Well, he's been by far the best of the three captains this year in both leadership and form. Leo tries his guts out and Hall at his best can still be inspirational, but neither have matched Kirk for consistency this year. As I was one who would have preferred to have seen just the one captain appointed, perhaps this says something about the 3 captains policy, though I have to admit I did favour Goodes as captain at one stage. I think Kelly was clearly the more influential captain and player, I didn't follow the swans for all of his career but even in his later years, he still seemed to have this presence on the field, but you have to hand it to Kirky for getting to where he has, especially as he was a late bloomer. I think it is more his ability to get the most out of himself that manages to inspire, it serves as a good example for others who do have more natural talent to try and do the same (I know some of you will immediately think of Nick Davis ;) but I was thinking more generally)

[No 14]

I was fortunate to watch Skilton week in week out. It was an inspiration when the club struggled year after year. Like Kirk and Kelly the courage and ground skills were a joy - I still see have visions of Skilton picking the ball up at full pace one handed and stab passing. I would not split them - all champions - one comment about Skilts though was he did it when grounds were sometimes cow paddocks. The saddest moment of being a swans supporter back in the 60s and 70s was not seeing skilts enjoy any September success. We all felt it. Could you image Hird or Buckley ending a career without a single September victory. I love driving past the old ground - always will (aghh I'm getting emotional - sorry)

To Kirk - everytime I see what you do, you remind me of Kelly and Skilton.

[SimonH]

Like others have said, Kelly was more able to take your breath away with an individual piece of brilliance, but Kirk is his equal for his ability to inspire the whole team.

On paper (not so fast, not naturally double-sided, unpenetrating and loopy kick) there is absolutely nothing that would persuade any recruiting manager to call this guy's name on draft day. And yet he's somehow become one of the most effective midfielders in the whole league.

[Matt79]

I think this quote by Micky O this afternoon says a lot about Kirky and his leadership...


"But it was just one of those things where at every stoppage I could hear Kirky (Brett Kirk) yelling out, `for Mago, for Mago' and with five minutes to go I started getting a bit emotional and choking up and the crowd from behind me at the goal square."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/Sport/OLoughlin-emotional-in-record-AFL-match/2007/07/08/1183833336145.html

Kirk is a legend!

[Bloody Hell]

I think it would be fair to say that if the three of them were to do a lap of honour in the red and white - Skilton and Kelly would be "chaired" around the ground...by Kirk, with one champion on each shoulder.

He loves the club more than any other...living or dead. You can see it in the way he plays.

[Flossie]

I think Brett Kirk is an inspiration as a man and as a leader of the Swans. When you watch him playing he just never stops or gives up. When we beat Freo yesterday it was great to see the huge smile on his face and punching his arms in the air. As much as I admire Barry Hall and Leo Barry, I think Kirky should have been made outright captain of the Swans.

[ScottH]

Skilton - Extreme Skill, Big Heart, 3 Charlies says it all.
Kelly - Big Heart, good Skill, lead by example, 1 Charlie.
Kirk - Huge Heart, average Skill, leads by example and by word. Delisted, came back ten fold.

[TheHood]

IMO, Kirk and Kelly are of equal importance to their respective eras.

The Champ was inspirational via his rugged attack on the ball and then the ability to deliver a vital pass or goal that lifts us out of our seats and arms punching the air.

Kirky's inspiration is just the desire to work and work and work until he can influence a contest his way and dish it off. He's a champ in the packs. Never ever gives up.

Kirky's 2007 has been his best season. He's personally dragged a very ordinary 2007 Swans higher than they deserve to be. He needs to be repaid by the boys.

[ROK Lobster]

I've never read the letter Skilton wrote after being delisted begging for a chance to live out his boyhood dream, so cannot really comment, except to say...

Skilton and Kelly both demonstrated great leadership when the club was weak. Kirk has had the opportunity to lead during one of the club's most successful periods. I think that the different circumstances make it difficult to judge somewhat.

Both Skilton (from what I have heard) and Kelly not only had the courage of Kirk, but also the skills to turn a game - Kels probably only just. Kirk only has his toughness and courage. I think that puts the other 2 slightly ahead.

That said, Kirk has been excellent this season (except a couple of gmes arlier on where he seemed a bit out of sorts) particularly the last few weeks. I think that it is clear that he is the "natural" captain, and the senior leader of the 3. Perhaps though, that shows the merits of the 3 captain system. I am glad Hall is not the captain at the moment. If you have 3 captains, and 1 or 2 of them have other things to deal with, at least it removes some of the pressure on them to get the captaincy thing right as well.

[floppinab]

Skilton and Kelly both demonstrated great leadership when the club was weak. Kirk has had the opportunity to lead during one of the club's most successful periods. I think that the different circumstances make it difficult to judge somewhat.



That said you would have to say that Kirk has been a pretty signficant reason that the club has had one of it's most successful periods. There is still a little question mark in my mind at a bit of what happens off the field, but nearly every time the team is down on the field it's Kirk that stands up the most, (certainly compared to a few other leadership group DUD's that shall remain nameless) moreso in my mind than Kelly did throughout his years IMO (and maybe thats because of what Kirk has done with the team off the field, more than Kelly probably was able to acheive).

As someone else has said the 2nd half of last years GF belongs to Brett Kirk.

[reigning premier]

Skilton - Extreme Skill, Big Heart, 3 Charlies says it all.
Kelly - Big Heart, good Skill, lead by example, 1 Charlie.
Kirk - Huge Heart, average Skill, leads by example and by word. Delisted, came back ten fold.

Perfect! :)

[doctor swan]

i remember kirk debut in 99 and i thought he had something, then for the next 3 years he basically just marked time and never really progressed with rocket. come 2002 and roosy took over , no disrespect to rocket as a judge of talent but kirky was gone at the end of the season had eade stayed. round 13 2002 a champion was born, and is now the heartbeat and soul of the club. they say the number 14 is special , i think the number 31 rates there as well. skilts was a legend but before my time, kells was a champ. i think in yers to come kirky will be revered as much as the other 2.
honour roll to date: premiership, all austr, int rules, b and f and another to follow and i think the captain would also be polling pretty highly in the brownlow this year, a smoky there.
to me a true champion and top bloke, nearly up there with skilts and certainly on a par or close to kel. another 2 years of his consistency who knows what we ll be saying.
the real and should be captain of the club

[Plugger46]

Didn't see Skilton play so I can't comment on him - but 3 brownlows says he was an absolute gun.

Kelly was a better footballer than Kirk is and I reckon Kel probably just has his measure in terms of leadership.

Kirky's a very good player/clubman. Kel was a champion of the competition - can we say the same about Kirk? Not quite I don't think.

[elroy67]

In reading some of the articles regarding Mickey's 261st, i cant imagine Kel screaming out "do it for Mago" prior to another assault on the footy. He certainly let his play do the talking.

Both Kel and Kirk are renowned for their hardness at the ball. Kel with clearly better skills and could do inspirational things, whereas perhaps Kirky inspires in other ways? I think of his 'you owe os one' to Davo in a certain game in 2005.

[Gary]

Skilton was a magic rover in a different era...no ruck rovers...2 big blokes with their "back up" ruckmen "resting" either forward pocket or back pocket...it was all so regimented. Bob had great skill & courage.

Kelly was a great winger / rover / ruck rover / centreman (does it matter any more) in the emerging modern era. Terrific mark for his size, great pace / strength / courage. Lower on kicking skills than Bob.

Kirk is a slow / can't kick ruck rover / midfielder of the modern game. Low on skills...but tremendous of heart. That is my summary order of three great captains.

All had great ability to win the ball, but a descending capacity to use it effectively.