Remember when...

[ROK Lobster]

...Hall could mark. Sheesh, he has lost it. I hope it comes back, we need it to.

[SCGonasunnyday]

Remember the Richmond game last year where Hall first injured himself? I recall Mcveigh's pass dropped about 2 metres short.

Similar story at times tonight. He dropped a couple, but other times you could equally blame the delivery.

I'm a little more miffed at a couple of the stupid frees he gave away.

[Legs Akimbo]

...Hall could mark. Sheesh, he has lost it. I hope it comes back, we need it to.

I think he is gone. The fact that he is being given spells on the bench indicates to me that Roos knows it and is preparing for the inevitable. With MOL being unable to kick the ball accurately or beyond 30 metres our once much vaunted forward line is not exactly going to have opposition teams shaking in their boots this year.

[LaDoleCheckVida]

He was more involved but too be fair to Hall he does have to play with 3 apes hanging off him and an umpire with an eagle eye.

And as my missers said when he dropped that chest mark - it bounced off his rock hard chest! :p

[stellation]

Hall looked to be moving more freely, the timing for marking might just take a while. I'll reserve judgement on whether he is gone or not until half way through the season.

As far as key forwards go I was more concerned by O'Loughlin's game tonight than by Hall's.

[Jeffers1984]

Hall looked to be moving more freely, the timing for marking might just take a while. I'll reserve judgement on whether he is gone or not until half way through the season.

As far as key forwards go I was more concerned by O'Loughlin's game tonight than by Hall's.

Agree. O'Loughlin is the real worry here, not Hall. Lost alot of pace and kicking distance seems to be getting smaller and smaller. This year will probably be it for him if things don't start happening for him.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Enter MySpace:)

[Mike_B]

I have a new nickname for Hall because of marking efforts - Cymbals.

[LaDoleCheckVida]

He marks like a seal. :o

[Mike_B]

He marks like a seal. :o
Hence the name cymbals

[NMWBloods]

He's never been a great overhead mark, but his chest marking has deserted him over the past year or so.

Our forward line is garbage - 6 goals!
(our midfield's not a lot better)

[LaDoleCheckVida]

He's never been a great overhead mark, but his chest marking has deserted him over the past year or so.

Our forward line is garbage - 6 goals!
(our midfield's not a lot better)

Both forward lines were crap. Would you relate that too the ubber flooding that was seen? I reckon not even noah could have beaten the flood that St kilda put on us tonight - as expected from lyons.

[Nico]

...Hall could mark. Sheesh, he has lost it. I hope it comes back, we need it to.

My brother said to me on the way out of the ground "we may have only been average footballers but there was one thing we never did....drop a chest mark".

There is an art to chest marking. You first must anticipate when the ball is going to hit your chest, at the same time you wrap your arms around the footy to prevent it from bouncing off your chest. Clearly Barry didn't learn this at Auskick.

Mind you it's hard to take a chest mark when the ball falls 10 metres short on most occasions. You know if a few more were to hit his chest he might just master the art.

[Nico]

Agree. O'Loughlin is the real worry here, not Hall. Lost alot of pace and kicking distance seems to be getting smaller and smaller. This year will probably be it for him if things don't start happening for him.

Can't have that. MOL worked his way into the game and made plenty of space in the second half. He also covered a lot more ground than he would normally do.

[NMWBloods]

Both forward lines were crap. Would you relate that too the ubber flooding that was seen? I reckon not even noah could have beaten the flood that St kilda put on us tonight - as expected from lyons.
Partly flooding, partly poor kicking from both sides (especially StKilda), partly abysmal forward structure and midfield play from us, and partly StKilda's midfield folded under pressure for half the game.

[LaDoleCheckVida]

Partly flooding, partly poor kicking from both sides (especially StKilda), partly abysmal forward structure and midfield play from us, and partly StKilda's midfield folded under pressure for half the game.

Flooding contributes a lot to all those factors unfortunately. I hate flooding and too me it was St Kildas intent from the get go to just flood us from the opening bounce.

As expected of course from Lyons.

I should not bother watching St Kilda/Swans game in the future. They are always an example of how not to play footy.

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

after tonight I have to say that I have serious reservations about some of the Swans older brigade. Leo Barry is a one trick pony who thinks he still run around in circles & get away with it. He is aging, is far slower & is getting easier to catch. He was a virtual liability at times tonight.

I have to say this, I think Barry Hall is past his used by date. I don't know whether it is confident age or whatever, but I have had enough waiting to find out. I have had enough giving him the benefit of the doubt. He has had eye surgery yet again, yet he still does the crocodile approach to chest-marking.

He is not the dominant force he once was & is best used as CHF in a cameo role where he can huff & puff & unsettle the defenders, then can go off when it gets too much for him.

JF

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Flooding contributes a lot to all those factors unfortunately. I hate flooding and too me it was St Kildas intent from the get go to just flood us from the opening bounce.

As expected of course from Lyons.

I should not bother watching St Kilda/Swans game in the future. They are always an example of how not to play footy.

I was expecting tonight to be ugly. It was, but the closeness of the contest turned it into a bit of a strategic chess-match.

I'm expecting next Sunday against Port to be far more attacking, as Port are a running side with a suspect defensive game.

JF

[floppinab]

after tonight I have to say that I have serious reservations about some of the Swans older brigade. Leo Barry is a one trick pony who thinks he still run around in circles & get away with it. He is aging, is far slower & is getting easier to catch. He was a virtual liability at times tonight.

JF

But was in our, what, top 3 or 4 possession getters, and not all that many of them the junk stuff across half back. Was interesting to see him up at half back and across the wing a lot last night. Guess that had a bit to do with the uber flood and that Gehrig wasn't playing

[CureTheSane]

He's never been a great overhead mark, but his chest marking has deserted him over the past year or so.

Our forward line is garbage - 6 goals!
(our midfield's not a lot better)

Last couple of years.

But I thought that he played OK last night.
There must be a lot of pressure to mark the one or two ball that are presented to him in a way that they can actually be marked.

[Lachie17]

I think that's the key - our delivery to Baz has been a hell of a lot better. Combine that with double and tripple teaming, uber-floods and him working back into form and I don't think we should be too rough on the guy in round 1.

[giant]

The Indian Rubber Man impression in Q3 wasn't pretty. His kicking last night wasn't inspiring either - 2005 Barry seems a long way away.

OTOH Micky O showed he's still one of the best one-grab marks in the league.

[Mike_B]

The Indian Rubber Man impression in Q3 wasn't pretty. His kicking last night wasn't inspiring either - 2005 Barry seems a long way away.

OTOH Micky O showed he's still one of the best one-grab marks in the league.
Even better than MOL at one grab marks is ROK - if only he could teach Baz how to mark overhead on the run.

[Legs Akimbo]

I think that's the key - our delivery to Baz has been a hell of a lot better. Combine that with double and tripple teaming, uber-floods and him working back into form and I don't think we should be too rough on the guy in round 1.

Unfortunately, the malaise goes much deeper than that...

1. He is leading wide and is not playing far enough down the ground. He is a better player when he plays like Reiwoldt. i.e. a running half forward not a wrestling full forward. He looked fitter tonight, but stayed too close to goal to run his player off.
2. He is consistently dropping marks he should take and with his shocking technique, will continue to do so. Needs to mark the ball in front of his face.
3. He is taking on players and getting caught. I lost count of the number of times he took off, tried to break the tackle and was caught or pulled to the ground.
4. His goal kicking as crap. Missed two easy shots he should have swallowed.

Basically, he is a 31 year old guy trying to play like a 22 year old. Barry - get over it, redefine your role according to what you can do, or bugger off. Stop giving away stupid free kicks when you get nailed mate. It is selfish.

However, I agree that the team also contributes by not moving the ball quickly enough into the forward line, resulting in us being susceptible to the flood. Also the forward line players last night were way too static. If Hall is going to make something out of a lead, then MOL and Davis need to lead wide to draw players away from Hall. I think a related problem is that Jolly is not dropping back to the goal square, which takes the opposition ruckman away from Hall's leading space. This is probably because he blew up in the second quarter last night and was struggling to run the game out.

Here's what I would do.

1. Play White as a true FF leading from the goal square with MOL acting as a foil / crumber. If White is not up to it, play MOL as a leading forward and bring in Moore as the crumber or have Buchanon / Bird / whoever resting from Midfield roration, taking on role as the forward pocket /crumber.
2. Play Davis as a HFF, where his long kicking can count. Accept the fact that if he marks it on the 50, he MUST take a shot. He's at least a 60% chance.
3. Instruct Hall to play in the space between the centre square and 30 metres from goal.

Another problem is that whilst ROK is roaming far and wide and pulled in some good marks, he is just not damaging enough. What is his role? he is just acting as some sort of uncessary link and by the time he pulls in his mark, turns around and takes his kick, the other guys have dropped back. Waste of time.

[giant]

I meant contested marks in particular - there must have only been a dozen contested marks in the game and i reckon Mick took a quarter of them.

Nice work from ROK but he's madethat lead up mark he's specialty - don't see him marking close to goals much these days.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Could Davis take ROK's role, and ROK become our FF? I've always wanted to see O'Keefe trialed in the goal square, as he's an extremely reliable mark and a decent shot at goal. O'Loughlin is still great value, and White needs get a go at some point, but the above combination is what I'd like to see if BBBBBBH doesn't get his @@@@ together.

We smashed the Hawks last year, without Hall, and looked awesome doing it. I think it's safe to say we don't rely on him these days, because he gives us nothing.

[Nico]

Could Davis take ROK's role, and ROK become our FF? I've always wanted to see O'Keefe trialed in the goal square, as he's an extremely reliable mark and a decent shot at goal. O'Loughlin is still great value, and White needs get a go at some point, but the above combination is what I'd like to see if BBBBBBH doesn't get his @@@@ together.

We smashed the Hawks last year, without Hall, and looked awesome doing it. I think it's safe to say we don't rely on him these days, because he gives us nothing.

I said after the game - White for Grundy is an obvious.

[ScottH]

...Hall could mark. Sheesh, he has lost it. I hope it comes back, we need it to.

My long term memory is not that good.

[CureTheSane]

St.Kilda looked very fit.

we didn't look fit at all.

The implication that a couple of weeks extra preparation helped the Saints is rubbish.

What helped them was the pre season comp.

Much more like H &A match conditions than a practice game.
Ask any player who comes back into a team after along spell away and he'll say that he doesn't have match fitness.
That's what the Swans were lacking.

Like it or hate it, the coaches should respect the NAB up - even as a tool leading into the part of the season that counts.

[giant]

St.Kilda looked very fit.

we didn't look fit at all.


Really? I didn't see it that way - both teams seems shattered in Q4 but we were the ones making the running (such as it was...).

[CureTheSane]

My long term memory is not that good.

I've killed many a brain cell over the years :)

[goswannie14]

St.Kilda looked very fit.

we didn't look fit at all.Not from my view in the stands. There were a number of players on both sides cramping in the last qrtr. In the end of the game, we looked to be the fitter side.

BTW, what happened to Harvey after a few early touches. I didn't see him between qrtrs 1 and 4.:confused:

[ScottH]

BTW, what happened to Harvey after a few early touches. I didn't see him between qrtrs 1 and 4.:confused:He was there quite regularly.

[mcs]

I reckon ROK should be our CHF.... the time he played there for a half against West Coke he chewed them up and spat them up. Put him there and stick BBB in the goalsquare or the other way. ROK is an excellent mark and leads well, but at the moment is wasted because all his leading is too far from goal.

[matthew]

Barry hall needs time to find form, he moved a lot freely, I can't believe he did not get a free kick after he almost had his head taken off.

[shaun..]

Our forwards are more the lead-type marks, not much in the contested one-on-one department..

[swantastic]

If the rest of our team actually got the ball in quick maybe they could get a pass to Hall 1 on 1 instead of 3 onto 1, so to give Hall a decent chance.

It looks as if the eye surgery hasn't worked,again:rolleyes:

[DeadlyAkkuret]

If the rest of our team actually got the ball in quick maybe they could get a pass to Hall 1 on 1 instead of 3 onto 1, so to give Hall a decent chance.

It looks as if the eye surgery hasn't worked,again:rolleyes:

Maybe the wrong guy got eye surgery, it should've been our mids.

[Industrial Fan]

I was happy to sink the boot into Thierry Hall last year, but I think there were enough promising signs there to say that he'll be back to some sort of form this year. He is still a retard around the contest and gives too many silly frees away, but I think he'll add alot more than he did last year by seasons end.

I think its a good sign that Roos was happy to bench him for periods too, and not just when he had brain explosions.

[hammo]

I reckon ROK should be our CHF....

Agree. There is no doubt in my mind that he is the best overhead mark in the club, and pound for pound possibly the best in the AFL. At the very least we would have good reason to kick it long to our forwards.

[2005]

[QUOTE=CureTheSane;364517]St.Kilda looked very fit.

we didn't look fit at all.

Not from where I sat , both sides were out on there legs though we were the ones who had more in the tank

[ScottH]

Not from where I sat , both sides were out on there legs though we were the ones who had more in the tankHappens when the entire two teams sprint from one set of Goal Posts to the other every few minutes.

[Robbo]

You almost have to be as fit as a marathon runner to play in the midfield of an AFL side these days.