Heal thyself, Roos tells his out-of-sorts man in the middle

[NMWBloods]

Heal thyself, Roos tells his out-of-sorts man in the middle - realfooty.com.au (http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/heal-thyself-roos-tells-goodes/2008/04/21/1208742853137.html)

The double-speak and inconsistency in this is amazing - Roos should become a politician.


ADAM GOODES, and only Adam Goodes, can cure the star midfielder of his form slump.
...
He added that Goodes would not find himself travelling to Canberra this Sunday for a stint in the seconds, a ploy used in the past to help senior players play themselves back into form.
...
"[A]t some point the player himself has got to dig himself out of a bit of a hole."
...
"You've got to dig deep and train hard and come out and play to your strengths and that's what we'll be asking Adam to do this week."
...
"They are the things the players have got to work out in their own mind."

...

"[Y]ou don't want to throw anyone in when they are not quite ready."
...
Roos hinting he is not convinced Davis is ready to play in the seniors again despite his return after Barry Hall was suspended last week.
"[Davis returned] probably when he didn't really deserve a game, to be honest"

[Industrial Fan]

Selective quote, much?

[stellation]

Selective quote, much?
Not particuarly, considering the comment that NMWBloods made about the quotes from Roos they are perfectly valid to highlight.

[Industrial Fan]

Or...


"His second quarter against West Coast was outstanding, and that's where it's a bit frustrating for him and the club, but certainly in terms of his overall form, he's very much in our best 22. It's just the difference between his best and worst needs to close a bit."

Or...


"We are seeing glimpses of what he can do. His form over the course of the five weeks hasn't been that bad, it's probably just his lows at the moment are just too low, and that's probably the difference"

[NMWBloods]

They still support the inconsistencies in Roos' views. For most players, allow them to work it out themselves and only bring them back when they are ready. For Davis, dump him in an instant, bring him back too early and then blame him for not performing in that circumstance despite no one else performing either.

[liz]

I don't see evidence of any inconsistency.

Roos clearly believes that Goodes is in his best 22 even when he's not playing close to his best. He clearly believes Davis is not in his best 22 when he's not playing close to his best. It is therefore not inconsistent to play one and to question whether to play the other.

It doesn't matter whether you agree with him re their relative merits. The accusation of inconsistency doesn't stack up.

FWIW I completely agree with Roos re the relative merits of each player below their best. Even having a relatively poor game, Goodes was arguably one of the most influential half dozen Swans on the ground on Saturday. He certainly had more of an impact than Davis.

[NMWBloods]

Substitute Goodes' name for nearly any other underperforming Swans player in recent years and the inconsistency will be a lot clearer.

[liz]

Substitute Goodes' name for nearly any other underperforming Swans player in recent years and the inconsistency will be a lot clearer.

Now you've lost me. I thought we were talking about Roos' public comments about Goodes and Davis and whether he was being inconsistent between those and his actions at the selection table.

Now we're suddenly talking about comparing Roos' comments on Davis with his private thoughts on some unnamed player or players?

[NMWBloods]

A number of Roos' comments are ones about "players" generally, not just specific to Goodes.

[stellation]

liz the inconsistency appears to me to be that one player is allowed to work things out for themselves whilst remaining in the seniors and another player is sent to the reserves to work things out.

I don't think that Nick's performance on the weekend, or in round 1, pushed him out of the best available 22 and I don't see Roos suggesting it did either.

[Go Swannies]

Do you think Jude and Bevan are playing at maybe 60% of their potential? Then let's put a rocket up them and we can have a whole team full of Judds. After all that's what the Cats achieved about this time last year by emulating the Swans"team honesty" thing.

Maybe Roos is squeezing everything he can out of the players at his disposal - including the reserves - and is getting a bit frustrated that everyone else is playing to their potential except two: the lazy little crumber who has always relied on natural skill to cruise through life - and perhaps the best player in the AFL who has an on-off switch in his brain that only his ex-girlfriends can find.

Roos' skill as a people manager can be measured by the new players, too. He let them mature in the 2s then brought them in as (almost) fully fledged senior players. Maybe that's the new, innovative alternative to the rebuild.

[AnnieH]

Please stop comparing Davo to Goodesy. There is no comparison.

One is a show-pony, the other is a dual brownlow medalist.

Even in "bad" form, Goodesy is still more valuable than Davo.

[dimelb]

They still support the inconsistencies in Roos' views. For most players, allow them to work it out themselves and only bring them back when they are ready. For Davis, dump him in an instant, bring him back too early and then blame him for not performing in that circumstance despite no one else performing either.
But they are different men as well as different players. Perhaps Roos thinks they need different treatment to get the best from them?

[Industrial Fan]

They still support the inconsistencies in Roos' views. For most players, allow them to work it out themselves and only bring them back when they are ready. For Davis, dump him in an instant, bring him back too early and then blame him for not performing in that circumstance despite no one else performing either.Ok, so which way do you want it?

If Davis didn't deserve to be dropped, shouldn't he be able to perform at a decent standard when he was in the seniors?

Or should he have spent a few more weeks in reserves so he was ready?

Do you think he came back too early?

[NMWBloods]

Ok, so which way do you want it?

If Davis didn't deserve to be dropped, shouldn't he be able to perform at a decent standard when he was in the seniors?

Or should he have spent a few more weeks in reserves so he was ready?

Do you think he came back too early?
I don't think he should have been dropped after the StKilda game.

[hammo]

Even in "bad" form, Goodesy is still more valuable than Davo.

Considering we've seen more bad than good from Adam in the past 2 seasons that point is debateable.

[liz]

liz the inconsistency appears to me to be that one player is allowed to work things out for themselves whilst remaining in the seniors and another player is sent to the reserves to work things out.

I don't think that Nick's performance on the weekend, or in round 1, pushed him out of the best available 22 and I don't see Roos suggesting it did either.

I might be misjudging the bloke, but I can't see Roos cutting off his nose to spite his face. My reading of his comments and actions is that he sees a less-than-full-tilt Davis as being marginal as far as his best 22 is concerned. Even Davis at his very best probably wouldn't see him picked in the top 10 players in the team.

He's not the only marginal best-22 player. I suspect that with our squad fully fit, around 16 players pretty much pick themselves and the other 6 or so spots could be filled by any of 10 players (subject to position balance).

When Davis was dropped after round 1, Roos said he wanted to get some more run and carry into the team and brought in Barlow, who certainly runs and eventually will learn to carry more than he currently does.

Goodes at his best, on the other hand, is probably the first name you'd write down on the list performance-wise. Structure wise there are probably 5 or so you couldn't differentiate between. Even Goodes at the level we've seen him the last few weeks I would put in the players who pick themselves. If nothing else he'll take the very best tagger the opposition has, and it's also worth noting that he's neck and neck with Kirk for clearances this season. So his concerning form is still reasonable.

So why on earth wouldn't you treat them differently at the selection table?

There may be other factors involved - such as Roos knowing Goodes will continue to work to regain his best form regardless of whether his spot is under threat. Maybe (and I am speculating) he has evidence that Davis gets comfortable when he thinks he's an automatic choice.

It's also not as if Davis is the only established player to get dropped. Both Schneider and Buchanan felt the axe last season, and both were then publicly put up for trade at the end of the year.

[hot potato]

Roosey is just trying to get Adam to get white line fever on game day and forget about relationship hassles that might be bugging him, maybe Warney needs to help here.:cool:

[satchmopugdog]

Roosey is just trying to get Adam to get white line fever on game day and forget about relationship hassles that might be bugging him, maybe Warney needs to help here.:cool:


We don't need any more white line fever please.7 weeks worth was enough.

[TheGrimReaper]

We don't need any more white line fever please.7 weeks worth was enough.

You can still have white line fever, but just play fairly. :o

[big bear]

We don't need any more white line fever please.7 weeks worth was enough.

Don't confuse white line fever and the red mist. Two different conditions, although serious forms of the former may be a precursor to the latter.

[Nico]

At least Goodsey and Davo are working their guts out at training this week, not shouting drinks and boofing in Fiji.

[DST]

Substitute Goodes' name for nearly any other underperforming Swans player in recent years and the inconsistency will be a lot clearer.

How many of those other underperforming Swans have two brownlows and the ability of Goodes to turn a game in 10 minutes.

That is the difference with Goodes and is why he will always be carried in any side due to the promise of being able to unleash that ability at will and win us a game off his own boot.

DST
:D

[ROK Lobster]

That is the difference with Goodes and is why he will always be carried in any side due to the promise of being able to unleash that ability at will and win us a game off his own boot.
Has he ever done it in the final quarter of a semi-final in a premiership season?

[royboy42]

Nico, that's three smartass comments in three threads on a radio rumour file gossip piece..give it a break!

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Considering we've seen more bad than good from Adam in the past 2 seasons that point is debateable.

You're saying it's debatable that Goodes has been more valuable than Davis over the past 2 seasons? Even during a 'poor' season, Goodes had around 8-9 brilliant games and some of those were in a losing side. How many great games has Davis had over the past 2 years?

This talk of double standards is really ridiculous. Goodes is a far superior player to Davis, even when Adam's form is down. Each player will be treated differently because each player is different.

If Nick Davis reaches the level that Goodes has, then people can whinge if they're treated differently, but until then....

[NMWBloods]

Why wasn't J Bolton treated in the same fashion as Davis last year?

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Has he ever done it in the final quarter of a semi-final in a premiership season?

We can only hope that was sarcasm:rolleyes:

[reigning premier]

We can only hope that was sarcasm:rolleyes:


That's the thing that works for sarcasm... It's usually true... :)

[dimelb]

How many of those other underperforming Swans have two brownlows and the ability of Goodes to turn a game in 10 minutes.

That is the difference with Goodes and is why he will always be carried in any side due to the promise of being able to unleash that ability at will and win us a game off his own boot.

DST
:D
Goodes can be a genuinely great player, but I wish his own boot was a bit more reliable!

[royboy42]

Goodesy had 20 yep, 20 brownlow medal votes last year..and we're 5 games into this season..He already has 2 brownlows, and people are whispering "drop him"???
It would be great if he managed 22 3 vote games a year, but we do need to be realistic. Aim your bullets at easier to hit targets guys.

[NMWBloods]

Who said to drop him?

[ScottH]

Who said to drop him?

:rolleyes:

You can't hear them. They are whispering.

[Industrial Fan]

Should Goodes be dropped? - RedAndWhiteOnline.com Messageboard (http://www.redandwhiteonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24224&highlight=goodes+dropped)

[ScottH]

Should Goodes be dropped? - RedAndWhiteOnline.com Messageboard (http://www.redandwhiteonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24224&highlight=goodes+dropped)

That was after the opening 2 games of the season. Noone gets dropped that early in the season.

[liz]

Who said to drop him?

You yourself suggested that Goodes and Davis were being treated inconsistently given that both have had their form questioned by Roos and yet only one has his place in the team in question.

If that's not what your opening post in the thread is implying, I don't understand the point of this whole thread.

[Industrial Fan]

That was after the opening 2 games of the season. Noone gets dropped that early in the season.If you believe the rumours, Goodes did!

[NMWBloods]

:rolleyes:

You can't hear them. They are whispering.
Ay sonny? My hearing aid has new batteries and is turned up very loud.

[NMWBloods]

You yourself suggested that Goodes and Davis were being treated inconsistently given that both have had their form questioned by Roos and yet only one has his place in the team in question.

If that's not what your opening post in the thread is implying, I don't understand the point of this whole thread.I have said a number of times that Davis should not have been dropped.

I have also said that the comments Roos is making seems to be in reference to players in general (eg: J Bolton in 2007) except Davis (and a couple of others).

[liz]

I have said a number of times that Davis should not have been dropped.

I have also said that the comments Roos is making seems to be in reference to players in general (eg: J Bolton in 2007) except Davis (and a couple of others).

I don't think I have ever heard Roos talk publicly about the form of any of his players other than

- Goodes
- Davis
- Hall

other than general comments about how he's happy with so and so (especially the young'uns). Roos also said this week that he never brings up players' form himself in press conferences but just responds to questions from journos.

When has he publicly commented on the form of Jude?

[AnnieH]

When has he publicly commented on the form of Jude?


I wish he would so the journos can start asking questions.

[NMWBloods]

I don't think I have ever heard Roos talk publicly about the form of any of his players other than

- Goodes
- Davis
- Hall

other than general comments about how he's happy with so and so (especially the young'uns). Roos also said this week that he never brings up players' form himself in press conferences but just responds to questions from journos.

When has he publicly commented on the form of Jude?
He hasn't.

However, my point is that in the comments about Goodes, he refers to "the players" needing to work it out themselves and in their own minds. He obviously applied this philosophy to some other struggling players, like Bolton last year.

He hasn't applied this philosophy to Davis.

[RogueSwan]

Goodesy had 20 yep, 20 brownlow medal votes last year..and we're 5 games into this season..He already has 2 brownlows, and people are whispering "drop him"???
It would be great if he managed 22 3 vote games a year, but we do need to be realistic. Aim your bullets at easier to hit targets guys.
I am sorry but the Midfielders award (Brownlow) is held in too high a regard by too many. It is decided by votes from people we readily agree can't see a free kick even if it takes off Bazza's head.
Not taking anything away from Goodsie, it is great he gets the recognition, I just don't put too much stock in an award voted on by umpires.
What we should really be rating are the clubs B & F (of which Goodes has also won two) results and the ones the Coaches and AFLPA vote on.
Hell, even the TLM has more relevance IMO.
Not having a dig at your comment RoyBoy, it is just something I have wanted to say for a while. :o

[liz]

He hasn't.

However, my point is that in the comments about Goodes, he refers to "the players" needing to work it out themselves and in their own minds. He obviously applied this philosophy to some other struggling players, like Bolton last year.

He hasn't applied this philosophy to Davis.


You're making an assumption that he's had reservations about Jude's contribution to the team. Maybe he has, maybe he hasn't. If he has, maybe he's challenged Bolton to do specific things on the training track or in games and maybe he's responded. Maybe he's made an assessment of whether he has anyone else in the reserves who is capable of better fulfilling whatever that onfield role is and decided he doesn't. Who knows?

What we do know is that he has previously challenged Davis about his contribution to the team by sending him for stints in the reserves. We know little about specifically what Davis was then asked to do or how he responded.

We do however know - because Davis himself has been quite open about telling us - that Davis isn't the most dedicated track worker going around.

And we know that Roos assessed after round 1 that he wanted more run and carry in the team and decided Barlow was best placed to provide that. And while he is just playing cameos at the moment, I reckon Barlow is doing enough to justify his spot at the moment.

Was there someone else he could better have replaced with Barlow to overall provide more run and carry? Maybe, but I am not convinced who that might be without taking away from other aspects of the team performance.

Whether or not you want Davis in the team is irrelevant in your accusation that Roos has been inconsistent in how he's treated players. And I don't think you've presented any persuasive evidence to support your accusation.

[NMWBloods]

The fact that J Bolton continued to get a game (and starting on the field) all last year is testament to the fact that Roos is inconsistent in how he treats underperforming players.

[TheGrimReaper]

The fact that J Bolton continued to get a game (and starting on the field) all last year is testament to the fact that Roos is inconsistent in how he treats underperforming players.

It happens at all clubs mate.