Goodes Racist.

[ScottH]

Goodes racist, says AFL historian (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,23701120-19742,00.html)


SYDNEY Swans star Adam Goodes has been branded a racist by AFL historian Gillian Hibbins, for claiming indigenous players are "born to play". Hibbins recently labelled the connection between the national game and Marn Grook a "seductive myth".

But Goodes said of Marn Grook - a Gunditjmara word meaning "game ball": "I believe in the connection".

[Legs Akimbo]

Weird.

Goodes's theory on aboriginal inherited behavioural adaptation to playing footy is as fanciful as this so called 'historian's' view that his comments are racist. I find them fancifully endearing.

[CJK]

Disgusting Adam.

You should be suspended for a year for this outrageous claim.

I am ashamed to support the swans today.



Seriously though -can't wait for the game so we can talk about football again.

[ScottH]

I think he deserves to be booed by his home crowd, instead of the opposition as normal.

[NMWBloods]

It's as racist as any other claim about a racial group.

[Legs Akimbo]

It's as racist as any other claim about a racial group.

I think he's just saying indiginous australians are good at footy, something supported by the disproportionate % of aboriginal players on the AFL roster vis their population incidence.

It's not like he's a talking about eugenics and the master race.

[CJK]

I think he deserves to be booed by his home crowd, instead of the opposition as normal.

Racist.

[NMWBloods]

I think he's just saying indiginous australians are good at footy, something supported by the disproportionate % of aboriginal players on the AFL roster vis their population incidence.

It's not like he's a talking about eugenics and the master race.But if you make a claim that Aborigines are not good at the defensive aspect of the game you are accused of being racist, despite most Aborigines being attacking rather than defensive players.

I don't think he's being racist either. I think Aborigines are very good at football. I also think you can make some distinctions in certain areas, mainly sport, reflecting racial differences. However, it's okay if you are saying something positive but not okay if you are saying something negative.

[ROK Lobster]

If Nick Davis was Aboriginal he would be loved as a player.

[BloodNut]

If Nick Davis was Aboriginal he would be loved as a player.

Enough with Nick Davis already. It's getting rather boring now.

[Industrial Fan]

If Nick Davis was Aboriginal he would be loved as a player.Probably true.

At the same time, a lot of Aboriginal players over come adversity to make it to the big stage. I'm not sure Nick has even overcome the adversity that is KFC. Hardly endearing.

[Plugger46]

But if you make a claim that Aborigines are not good at the defensive aspect of the game you are accused of being racist, despite most Aborigines being attacking rather than defensive players.

I don't think he's being racist either. I think Aborigines are very good at football. I also think you can make some distinctions in certain areas, mainly sport, reflecting racial differences. However, it's okay if you are saying something positive but not okay if you are saying something negative.

Agree entirely.

[ROK Lobster]

Enough with Nick Davis already. It's getting rather boring now.
It's not about Davis, it's about perception of Aboriginal players.

(I am truly flattered though that you try to respond to each of my posts. Are you still having fun, how long is it (and how many user names have you been through) since you procliamed that you would hound me from the forum?)

[ROK Lobster]

Probably true.

At the same time, a lot of Aboriginal players over come adversity to make it to the big stage. I'm not sure Nick has even overcome the adversity that is KFC. Hardly endearing.Nick's dad has been a bit of a burden to overcome.

[ScottH]

As good as most indigenous players are, they tend to go "missing" during parts of the season. (See Goodes 1st 1/2 of season last year.)

[CureTheSane]

But if you make a claim that Aborigines are not good at the defensive aspect of the game you are accused of being racist, despite most Aborigines being attacking rather than defensive players.


Of if you claim that white Australians are "born to play XXX sport", you'd be seen as quite racist.

It's simply a touchy subject.
Any comment anywhere near to racism is going to get pounced upon.
To a large degree, most of us go out of our way to be SEEN to be not racist.
ie: We aren't racist, but are very careful how we say things so that we aren't construed as being racist some way.

[AnnieH]

How can Goodesy be racist????

Shouldn't he be branded a "reverse racist"????

[NMWBloods]

How can Goodesy be racist????

Shouldn't he be branded a "reverse racist"????I hate this expression! It demonstrates my point and the general ignorance about racism perfectly!

There is no such thing as "reverse racism". There is only racism!

[AnnieH]

I hate this expression! It demonstrates my point and the general ignorance about racism perfectly!

There is no such thing as "reverse racism". There is only racism!

... not the way Today Tonight tells it!!;)
They had a story on reverse racism the other night - about how certain asian repairmen are charging asians a tenth of what they're charging "white people".
It was sensationalism at its very best!!

Besides Bloods ... I'm having a dig. Maybe you can get Scotty to make me a special smilie that I can use so that you and ROKL don't jump down my throat every time I open my mouth to have a dig or make a joke. It may simplify things around here a bit.

Please don't presume that I'm ignorant - I think I know a little bit more about racism than you do ... purely from experiencing it of course.

[ScottH]

EJ reckoned boys were meant to play ball sports, coz it's the first thing they grab when they wake up in the morning.

[NMWBloods]

... not the way Today Tonight tells it!!;)
They had a story on reverse racism the other night - about how certain asian repairmen are charging asians a tenth of what they're charging "white people".
It was sensationalism at its very best!!

Besides Bloods ... I'm having a dig. Maybe you can get Scotty to make me a special smilie that I can use so that you and ROKL don't jump down my throat every time I open my mouth to have a dig or make a joke. It may simplify things around here a bit.

Please don't presume that I'm ignorant - I think I know a little bit more about racism than you do ... purely from experiencing it of course.
Sorry - I keep forgetting.

I might think Lucille Ball when I read your posts in future.

[Wardy]

EJ reckoned boys were meant to play ball sports, coz it's the first thing they grab when they wake up in the morning.

an honest answer from an honest bloke!

[Industrial Fan]

I hate this expression! It demonstrates my point and the general ignorance about racism perfectly!

There is no such thing as "reverse racism". There is only racism!Not true! I was a reverse racist the other day. Just before I positively discriminated.

[AnnieH]

Sorry - I keep forgetting.

I might think Lucille Ball when I read your posts in future.

Seriously.
That's a great start!!:)

[NMWBloods]

Not true! I was a reverse racist the other day. Just before I positively discriminated.
You're also a girly boy (in a macho feminine way) so I'm not surprised!

:p ;)

If you are offended by this MMG I will delete it.

[ROK Lobster]

...Please don't presume that I'm ignorant - I think I know a little bit more about racism than you do ... purely from experiencing it of course.Is it racist to assume that people of races that have been victims of racism know more about racism than people of races who have been less likely to be victims of racism?

(Please take this in the spirit of your post)

[cruiser]

You're also a girly boy (in a macho feminine way) so I'm not surprised! How rude is that?

[NMWBloods]

How rude is that?
It was a joke - normal banter with MMG following on from recent threads on a similar topic. I'll put a smiley in so others realise.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

"When you see two brothers or three brothers playing on the same team you can just see this natural ability shine through.

"I think that comes from thousands and thousands of years of history there."

Hibbins, herself a major contributor to the Australian football anniversary publication, branded these comments by Goodes as "racist".

"If you define racism as believing a race is superior in something, this is basically what he (Goodes) was doing."

Did Goodes actually say aboriginal players are superior? Or did he just say that they were born to play Australian football and have a natural ability? That's not actually saying they're superior.

Hibbins needs a life. I can't wait to see the BF reaction.

[BloodNut]

Hibbins needs a life. I can't wait to see the BF reaction.

why do you let BF get to you Deadly. It's great that you stick up for the club on that stupid site but at the end of the day is it worth arguing with the plethora of morons on bigfooty?

[Dunger]

If you define racism in any matter or method and forget about the actual and legal meanings, Goodes and for that matter most of us could be considered racist.

Back in reality, Goodes said what he believes.

He's not a racist. He's a dual Brownlow medalist.

[NMWBloods]

If you define racism in any matter or method and forget about the actual and legal meanings, Goodes and for that matter most of us could be considered racist.
I don't think so, but that term gets thrown around far too much, and this is another example of its misuse.

Back in reality, Goodes said what he believes. I don't think that precludes someone from being racist.


He's not a racist. He's a dual Brownlow medalist.I didn't think they were mutually exclusive?

[ShockOfHair]

Did Goodes actually say aboriginal players are superior? Or did he just say that they were born to play Australian football and have a natural ability? That's not actually saying they're superior.

.

Exactly.

It's a big call to call anyone a racist.To smear Goodes with it on these flimsy grounds is pathetic.

I note that Martin Flanagan complained the Hibbins had misrepresented him in her essay on the roots of footy. Now she's dissed Goodes, also as part of her effort to extinguish the notion of any link between AFL and indigenous games.

A battle of Wills - realfooty.com.au (http://www.realfooty.com.au/articles/2008/05/09/1210131268453.html)

[AnnieH]

Is it racist to assume that people of races that have been victims of racism know more about racism than people of races who have been less likely to be victims of racism?

(Please take this in the spirit of your post)

No.

[swantastic]

But if you make a claim that Aborigines are not good at the defensive aspect of the game you are accused of being racist, despite most Aborigines being attacking rather than defensive players.

I don't think he's being racist either. I think Aborigines are very good at football. I also think you can make some distinctions in certain areas, mainly sport, reflecting racial differences. However, it's okay if you are saying something positive but not okay if you are saying something negative.That's a bit of a rash generalization isnt it?

But your right they are @@@@ at the defensive side of the game but normally very good at the attacking side,and do it with flair.

But most IMHO are too hot and cold.

[smasher]

I did read the article by Goodes and was not impressed.It is my belief that Adam Goodes is the product of an Aboriginal mother and a White father,thus he being tall for an Aboriginal man.
I do agree that he,like many sportspeople seems to wander in and out of the game.
Adam Goodes is blessed with some wonderful gifts which we regularily applaud.He has won two Brownlows.
On occassions I feel Adam can be an arrogant team player as he has a tendency to try to do a whole play by himself rather than pass to a player in a far better position.He and Leo Barry are both culprits of this.
But hey,two Brownlows,one Premiership,many personal accolades,great for any footballer no matter what their background is.
I think Adam should concentrate on footy and the journos on writing.

[connolly]

I don't think so, but that term gets thrown around far too much, and this is another example of its misuse.


Yep quite outrageous. Particularly in a nation that was established through a genocide.

[connolly]

I think Adam should concentrate on footy and the journos on writing.

Do ya just. Goodes is a young leader of the indigenous people of this country. So you want to restrict his right to speech concerning his own people. And that is the exclusive province of "journos" ?????

[TheGrimReaper]

Goodesy is a god, and the historian doesn't know what he's on about.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

why do you let BF get to you Deadly. It's great that you stick up for the club on that stupid site but at the end of the day is it worth arguing with the plethora of morons on bigfooty?

All I said was I can't wait to see the reaction:confused:

[Big Al]

Black athletes run faster than white athletes. Uh oh....does that mean I'm a racist or a realist.:confused:

[cruiser]

Black athletes run faster than white athletes. Uh oh....does that mean I'm a racist or a realist.:confused: Exactly. Likewise white athletes swim better than black athletes. It's not racist at all to say that.

[573v30]

I don't think it's even reached BigFooty which is very surprising.

[ScottH]

Most of the best athletes around the world are not caucasians.

[573v30]

Most of the best athletes around the world are not caucasians.

Careful, that could be considered as racist. ;)

[ROK Lobster]

All I said was I can't wait to see the reaction:confused:Not a real fan - unlike Diego!

[Lucky Knickers]

OT for a moment - gee I enjoy the Marngrook Footy Show - they talk footy!
Back OT - what an ill thought, ill judged comment to make in that forum. She's entitled to her view but just another boot into a Swan for 2008 - what's new. I hope it fires them up in the same way that ugly footy did in 2005.

[reigning premier]

Kickett, and Marn Grook Footy Show host Grant Hansen, say Hibbins' research is flawed.

Hansen added: "I think she failed to interview any indigenous people, which I find quite ironic if she's writing about Marn Grook. I think it was an oversight by the AFL to actually print that chapter."

Ummmm.... Just how many people did Hansen & Kickett interview to come to their conclusion????

It's a complete beat up up but please don't insult our intelligence by going to the footy show for an "informed opinion"... :rolleyes:

[reigning premier]

Exactly. Likewise white athletes swim better than black athletes. It's not racist at all to say that.

But that's beacuse they can't afford pools....

[goswannie14]

Black athletes run faster than white athletes. Uh oh....does that mean I'm a racist or a realist.:confused:


Exactly. Likewise white athletes swim better than black athletes. It's not racist at all to say that.Neither of the above is racist, because it is stating a fact taken from sporting results.


But that's beacuse they can't afford pools....
However, even though I know this is a tongue in cheek comment, this would be considered racist IMO. My undestanding od racism is that it is racist to make deliberately derogatory comments against any particular race.

BTW Annie, despite what TT would have you believe, there is no such thing as "reverse racism", it is always racism.

[Wardy]

Dont worry everyone - seeing as the Swans club as a whole are responsible for pretty much everything that is happening in the world (on a weekly basis), so this week, its racism. God only knows what next week will bring.:rolleyes:

[Chow-Chicker]

Neither of the above is racist, because it is stating a fact taken from sporting results.


However, even though I know this is a tongue in cheek comment, this would be considered racist IMO. My undestanding od racism is that it is racist to make deliberately derogatory comments against any particular race.

BTW Annie, despite what TT would have you believe, there is no such thing as "reverse racism", it is always racism.

So it would be OK to say something like (as an example)...

"Men are stronger than women" - that wouldn't be sexist.

But if you say....

"Women are weaker than men" - that would be regarded as sexist?

[Industrial Fan]

You're also a girly boy (in a macho feminine way) so I'm not surprised!

:p ;)

If you are offended by this MMG I will delete it.At first I laughed at it. Then I thought I would carry on about it like a complete girl.

Then I moved on!

[AnnieH]

At first I laughed at it. Then I thought I would carry on about it like a complete girl.

Then I moved on!

:)

[cruiser]

But that's beacuse they can't afford pools....
Crap. Blacks in the US have as much access to pools as whites do. How many blacks do you see on the US swim team?

[cruiser]

Dont worry everyone - seeing as the Swans club as a whole are responsible for pretty much everything that is happening in the world (on a weekly basis), so this week, its racism. God only knows what next week will bring.:rolleyes: Surely an environmetal issue next week. Maybe Roos' hairspray destroying the ozone layer?

[swantastic]

Crap. Blacks in the US have as much access to pools as whites do. How many blacks do you see on the US swim team? None and thats because they cant bloody swim,but they can run fast.

How many whites do you see sprinting for the US?

[swantastic]

Can all you whinging beyatches get over this racist bull @@@@.

Goodsey is not a racist.

IMO just about every body in this country has been on the recieving end of a racist comment,i say suck it in and get over it.

[ScottH]

Crap. Blacks in the US have as much access to pools as whites do. How many blacks do you see on the US swim team?

That's coz they can only jump.

[NMWBloods]

There are various arguments about this.

One is related to bone and muscle structure. For example, blacks have heavier bones or denser muscles or particularly heavier skulls, thus upsetting buoyancy in the water. The arguments have been disputed.

They also have different shaped backs and spines, which assists with running (and fast bowling - eg: West Indians). There is also the argument about faster twitch fibres.

More specifically faster runners are blacks originating from Western Africa - the Eastern Africans are better at distance running. Of course there are plenty of examples to counter these arguments.

Another argument is simply that in America blacks have not been welcome at local pools and many have never learned to swim. A recent poll has shown that 58% of black children don't know how to swim.

I think it is more the case that people with certain characteristics are better at certain sports than other people. Some racial or sub-racial groups have more of those characteristics than other groups, however extrapolating that to the broader groups makes the argument less valid. It's also useful to take into account cultural and societal factors which have a large bearing.

[swantastic]

That's coz they can only jump...and us whiteys cant.

[NMWBloods]

Crap. Blacks in the US have as much access to pools as whites do. That's not entirely true, as a recent poll has shown. Far less black children know how to swim, partly because they have less access to pools and partly because their parents do not encourage it. The latter occurs because the parents never learned how to swim because they definitely had no access to pools. There are still examples of this, especially in the south.

[swantastic]

That's not entirely true, as a recent poll has shown. Far less black children know how to swim, partly because they have less access to pools and partly because their parents do not encourage it. The latter occurs because the parents never learned how to swim because they definitely had no access to pools. There are still examples of this, especially in the south.Thats not the white peoples fault if they cant swim,its their own.

The last time i heard America was a free country.

My parents encouraged me not to do things but i still did them.

[Mel]

The last time i heard America was a free country.




'Free'? maybe. Equal? no.

[cruiser]

That's not entirely true, as a recent poll has shown. Far less black children know how to swim, partly because they have less access to pools and partly because their parents do not encourage it. The latter occurs because the parents never learned how to swim because they definitely had no access to pools. There are still examples of this, especially in the south. OK, I'm willing to stand corrected on that.

[Bob Neil]

Middle-aged anglos are well designed for drinking beer.

[Legs Akimbo]

Thats not the white peoples fault if they cant swim,its their own.

The last time i heard America was a free country.

My parents encouraged me not to do things but i still did them.

If you wish to challenge your preconceptions, purchase this week's 'The Economist' Pg 31 - "Nearer to overcoming". There is no single cause or solution, but there can be no doubt that many white (and Hispanic) Americans discriminate against blacks and some elements of black American culture are self defeating (e.g. research has shown that black kids tend to think it is uncool to be smart).

None of which has anything to do with Adam Goodes, but I think your statement about about 'its not white people's fault' displays a lack of insight, being rather a defensive unsubstantiated opinion based on your own limited experience of these matters.

[swantastic]

'Free'? maybe. Equal? no.Fair enough.


If you wish to challenge your preconceptions, purchase this week's 'The Economist' Pg 31 - "Nearer to overcoming". There is no single cause or solution, but there can be no doubt that many white (and Hispanic) Americans discriminate against blacks and some elements of black American culture are self defeating (e.g. research has shown that black kids tend to think it is uncool to be smart).

None of which has anything to do with Adam Goodes, but I think your statement about about 'its not white people's fault' displays a lack of insight, being rather a defensive unsubstantiated opinion based on your own limited experience of these matters.LA your right i have limited experience with black people,socially and work wise but that doesnt mean my opinion is unsubstantiated as i can read.

Whites,Blacks,Hispanic's and Asians all discriminate against each other,it seems its ok for blacks to racially taunt whites but heaven forbid if its the other way around.IMO thats a bloody double standard.

Why on center link forms are they racist against white australians,in that they ask you if you are of Aboriginal or Torres Straight Islander descent so you get more benefits that way.

How do i know this a friends ex-boyfriend worked for the Aboriginal part of center link,and he used to gloat about the benefits he got because he was Aborignal.

He got rent free housing,car just to name a few,but i bet my balls a white Australian would not get that sort of treatment which pisses me right off.

The government lets this happen as to not offend the Aborignal community and to try and make up for the so-called crimes against them from years ago.

[Legs Akimbo]

Fair enough.

The government lets this happen as to not offend the Aborignal community and to try and make up for the so-called crimes against them from years ago.

Like that little matter of genocide?

[#73]

Goodes' quote is clearly taken out of context and indicative of the pathetically PC World in which we now live.

It is impossible nowadays to state any observation of any minority group without being branded a racist. Its a joke.

Anyway, I'm late for my Klan meeting....gotta go!

[royboy42]

The author of the racist allegation against Goodesy has withdrawn..'never meant that he was a racist' 'misinterpreted' etc..follow link

Football's culture wars: historian tackled - realfooty.com.au (http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/players-defend-marn-grooks-place/2008/05/15/1210765060172.html?page=fullpage)

[AnnieH]

Goodes' quote is clearly taken out of context and indicative of the pathetically PC World in which we now live.

It is impossible nowadays to state any observation of any minority group without being branded a racist. Its a joke.

Anyway, I'm late for my Klan meeting....gotta go!

Funny!!

Of course Goodesy's going to go on about how fabulous the aboriginals are this week, it's been advertised all week on radio as the "indigenous" game ... they're playing for the Mark Grook Trophy.

[smasher]

There are various arguments about this.

One is related to bone and muscle structure. For example, blacks have heavier bones or denser muscles or particularly heavier skulls, thus upsetting buoyancy in the water. The arguments have been disputed.

They also have different shaped backs and spines, which assists with running (and fast bowling - eg: West Indians). There is also the argument about faster twitch fibres.

More specifically faster runners are blacks originating from Western Africa - the Eastern Africans are better at distance running. Of course there are plenty of examples to counter these arguments.

Another argument is simply that in America blacks have not been welcome at local pools and many have never learned to swim. A recent poll has shown that 58% of black children don't know how to swim.

I think it is more the case that people with certain characteristics are better at certain sports than other people. Some racial or sub-racial groups have more of those characteristics than other groups, however extrapolating that to the broader groups makes the argument less valid. It's also useful to take into account cultural and societal factors which have a large bearing.

You are right on the money with your anatomical info.I was considering writing it but didn't have the balls to.You are so right and your stats have been taught in sociology at Uni so I wouldn't argue the points.
Good post,well done NMWBlOODS

[Nico]

No it's about you trying to create "thought provoking" (aka as trolling) replies. You are one of the smartest trolls i have come across. You disguise your trolls well for a public servant.

Anyway back on topic..


That my friend is a slur on public servants. Is racism any different from a slur on a particular section of the working community.

[Nico]

As good as most indigenous players are, they tend to go "missing" during parts of the season. (See Goodes 1st 1/2 of season last year.)

The "walkabout theory" is all very well but what player doesn't go missing during a season. Have you ever seena player get votes in every match?

[cruiser]

The "walkabout theory" is all very well but what player doesn't go missing during a season. Have you ever seena player get votes in every match?
It's unfortunate that a bigger deal seems to be made of it when they are Indigenous.

[NMWBloods]

It's unfortunate that a bigger deal seems to be made of it when they are Indigenous.
Davis v. O'Loughlin or Goodes?

[cruiser]

Davis v. O'Loughlin or Goodes?
Exactly. I'm referring to comments made by some others (no, not you) in this thread.

[ROK Lobster]

I don't really see how Goodes comments are racist. He never said that other races were not, or that indigenous players are better than others. I think that perhaps Gillian is racist, and assumed that he emant something that perhaps he did not.

[Big Al]

That my friend is a slur on public servants. Is racism any different from a slur on a particular section of the working community.

No, unless of course you work for a bank then it's "game on".:p

[ernie koala]

I don't really see how Goodes comments are racist. He never said that other races were not, or that indigenous players are better than others. I think that perhaps Gillian is racist, and assumed that he emant something that perhaps he did not.

Agreed...As Suzy says.....Gillian is "a bit suss"