Bazza is off to ...

[Triple B]

... Hawthorn.

Bookmark it.

[Doctor J.]

... Hawthorn.

Bookmark it.

Why?
I don't get Whoreforlorn's need for him.

Why would they need another player who gets absolutely murdered by the scumps running around on their forward line?

I don't doubt your info BBB, I just don't understand why.

Do you know if we get anything in this deal. Would love to stitch them up something good if possible.

[Primmy]

Who would we get? Are they dumping another perfectly good player that will be worth a mint to us in the future?

[goswannie14]

Why?
I don't get Whoreforlorn's need for him.

Why would they need another player who gets absolutely murdered by the scumps running around on their forward line?

I don't doubt your info BBB, I just don't understand why.

Do you know if we get anything in this deal. Would love to stitch them up something good if possible.
Agree with Doctor J, why would Hawthorn need him?

[Triple B]

I'm guessing they think they can steal another flag in the next year or two.

They will most probably play Roughead down back.

As for what we'll get, unless another club like the Bulldogs shows some interest, I have a suspicion it will be a similar scenario to the Corrie deal with Brisbane/Collingwood last year, pick 90 or thereabouts, just to let Bazza get to the club of his choice.

[Primmy]

To annoy us?

[Legs Akimbo]

Maybe because Croad is shot and they need to send Roughead to CHB. They figure they are in the window and will not have time to groom a decent defender, which they need, and hence have a realistic shot at the title next year.

Just thinking out loud...

[satchmopugdog]

As we are a supposedly dedicated Hawthorn workplace...he might come to visit...woo hoo.:D

[satchmopugdog]

Just read that Hawthorn are after Shaun Burgoryne as well. How are they going to fit all these players under their salary cap????????????????

[laughingnome]

Just read that Hawthorn are after Shaun Burgoryne as well. How are they going to fit all these players under their salary cap????????????????

With John Elliott's help.

[Mr Magoo]

With John Elliott's help.

They will all become environmental ambassadors for the sponsor of their choice. No one knows what most environmentalists actually do anyway so its difficult to prove they are not working in the role.

[Lucky Knickers]

With Max Bailey's future in doubt too they are down a ruck man. Maybe they are thinking Roughie, Buddy, Bazza to back up ruck to Peter Perfect.

On consideration - why aren't they going for Seaby?

[Margie]

Bazza will look terrible in those colours! But him and Franklin in the forward line, I'm not sure that will work.

[Rod_]

They must need him since we Roughhead in exchange?

Well I am hopeful...

Rod_

[ItsAllGoodes]

A while ago I might have suggested Mark Williams as a trade...I could see him taking over the role of O'Loughlin

But he didnt do much for Box Hill Hawks against Port Melbourne last weekend so I went cold on the idea...maybe he is just jaded at Hawthorn???

[ShockOfHair]

Just read that Hawthorn are after Shaun Burgoryne as well. How are they going to fit all these players under their salary cap????????????????

Especially as they already have salary cap issues, with Buddy, Roughie, Hodgie and Cyril, not to mention Mitchell and Sewell et al.

And if they're trading for Burgoyne, what are they going to give away for Baz?

Sorry 3B.. i still think the most likely destination is the kennel.

But it's going to be a pretty active trading season. Anything could happen.

[Reggi]

Bazza will look terrible in those colours! .

Even Jennifer hawkins would look terrible in Brown & Gold, shocking,just shocking.

[ernie koala]

... Hawthorn.

Bookmark it.

Today.... yet another story pointing at the Doggies. Lets hope both, or more, want him, then we might actually get something decent as a trade, like a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

[AnnieH]

I'll take Delicious Rioli AND Chance Bateman if he goes to the poos and wees.
That's fair.

[Mr Magoo]

Hawthorn are not worth trading with and we (nor any other club) should be doing them any favours whatsoever on this one. Their idea of a fair trade will be to offer up Bailey, Croad and Boyle for Hall and a second rounder.

An ideal situation would be that we force the bulldogs into a trade so as to not let Hall slip into the preseason draft and potentially Hawthorns hands , and then hope port force Burgoyne into the preseason draft , we have first choice over hawthorn and take burgoyne for nothing.

In reverse if Hawthorn pick up Burgoyne in a trade , they could let Hall go into the preseason draft where they would have first choice over the bulldogs.

Funnily enough , based on Hawthorns behaviour as evidenced in the match against Essendon , Halls rough house behaviour would be considered the norm at their club so he would be a good fit.

[Primmy]

No, not Hawthorn! Dogs is one thing, but Hawthorn!!

I am expecting at least a 3 way trade, I am after all an expert in these things, and we should get Buddy for him. And I am SURE Buddy Blue Eyes would love to come to us!!!

[satchmopugdog]

Even Jennifer hawkins would look terrible in Brown & Gold, shocking,just shocking.

Even Johnny Depp would look terrible in Yellow and Brown.:p

[Wardy]

Even Jennifer hawkins would look terrible in Brown & Gold, shocking,just shocking.

Mind you those colours suit Alister Clarkson right down to the ground - hmm perhaps thats a bit mean...;)

[Primmy]

Mind you those colours suit Alister Clarkson right down to the ground - hmm perhaps thats a bit mean...;)

Oh I don't think so :p

[Nico]

Mind you those colours suit Alister Clarkson right down to the ground - hmm perhaps thats a bit mean...;)

You're not suggesting that if he donned one of those disgraceful jumpers he might resemble a ........... turd.

[Jewels]

You're not suggesting that if he donned one of those disgraceful jumpers he might resemble a ........... turd.

He doesn't need to put on the guernsey for that.....

[Number 43]

Hall to Hawthorn for Williams would be a good trade.

[Wardy]

You're not suggesting that if he donned one of those disgraceful jumpers he might resemble a ........... turd.

umm, maybe.............:D ;) ( I know, me bad!)

[chuckie]

Rumour on SEN radio this morning, was that Hall was seen having lunch with Matthew Knights yesterday.
Another possible suitor.

[satchmopugdog]

Hall to Hawthorn for Williams would be a good trade.


I'd love that..Williams is one of my favourite players..he carried that forward line on his shoulders for years which is a reflection of his skills,timing,reading of the play and his natural abilities ..plus he can kick beautifully. Considering his size he is kilo for kilo a great player.

Appears lackadaisical at times..he can't get his body language to tell lies..if he's not interested that's what you get.

[gossipcom]

Rumour on SEN radio this morning, was that Hall was seen having lunch with Matthew Knights yesterday.
Another possible suitor.
Hall for McVeigh. :D

[swansrob]

A while ago I might have suggested Mark Williams as a trade...I could see him taking over the role of O'Loughlin

But he didnt do much for Box Hill Hawks against Port Melbourne last weekend so I went cold on the idea...maybe he is just jaded at Hawthorn???

Yeah, I was at that game - Williams was just @@@@.

[Wardy]

Yeah, I was at that game - Williams was just @@@@.

Dont hold back - tell us what you really think!!!;)

[Triple B]

I'd love that..Williams is one of my favourite players....

Williams is right near the top of my least liked players list. Niggly and comes across as just a smartass to me.

I didn't like Plugger much before '95 either, so........ :p :p

[goswannie14]

According to the Hawks, they haven't even spoken to him......according to Hutchy on the Footy Show.

[Captain]

Hawks won't give up Williams for Baz unless we gave them a 2nd or 3rd round pick (which I wouldn't do).

Wonder why the Dees aren't interested in the big fella? He would be perfect for their forward line and help mentor and protect Watts, Jurrah etc.

[ScottH]

According to the Hawks, they haven't even spoken to him......according to Hutchy on the Footy Show.

Bwahahahahaha

[CureTheSane]

It would be interesting to get the other teams' take on Hall.
His actions were pretty public, and everyone is pretty well versed in his issues, yet there is a lot of talk about Hall being picked up by any team who has a need for him.

Given the Swans' stance, you'd kinda expect most other teams to not be going near Hall with a barge pole.

[blood_angel]

If the bazza goes to the doggies how about a trade involving Andrejs Everitt ?

havent kept much of an eye on him but he looked promising

Carltank are after him:

Carlton Blues eyeing Andrejs Everitt in trade deal with Bulldogs | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26088449-5012432,00.html)

[ernie koala]

Hall for McVeigh. :D

Hall for Lovett

[sprite]

Hall for Nathan Eagleton a straight swap

[Number 43]

Hall for Aker

[AnnieH]

Hall for Aker

Now that's just being stupid.;)
Wankermanis .. a swan.
Never.

[Bloods05]

Wonder why the Dees aren't interested in the big fella? He would be perfect for their forward line and help mentor and protect Watts, Jurrah etc.

They are.

[Captain]

They are.

Makes sense. Where did you hear/read that?

[Rhys]

I reckon Sydney should look into trading with the crows. They have some really good fit and fast young players such as Tippet, Johncock, Porplyzia, Van Berlo, Taylor Walker. Going by our history with drafting south Australian players it seems like a good choice...e.g. Matthew Nicks, Michael O'Loughlin, Marty Mattner

[BSA5]

If the bazza goes to the doggies how about a trade involving Andrejs Everitt ?

havent kept much of an eye on him but he looked promising

Carltank are after him:

Carlton Blues eyeing Andrejs Everitt in trade deal with Bulldogs | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26088449-5012432,00.html)

Hall and pick 22 to the Bulldogs for Everitt and Guy O'Keefe.

[Primmy]

I reckon Sydney should look into trading with the crows. They have some really good fit and fast young players such as Tippet, Johncock, Porplyzia, Van Berlo, Taylor Walker. Going by our history with drafting south Australian players it seems like a good choice...e.g. Matthew Nicks, Michael O'Loughlin, Marty Mattner

OK, so by calculation we have to look at a Crows/S.A. player with M as a first initial as our best bet. Followed by an N or a J. :p

[Chookbilly]

Surely now the dogs will make a play for Hall.
Their lack of a true forward has shown them up again.... they're right on the cusp of a premiership and can't afford to keep wasting time.

Had they won tonight they may have fancied their forward line just the way it is.

[RogueSwan]

Surely now the dogs will make a play for Hall.
Their lack of a true forward has shown them up again.... they're right on the cusp of a premiership and can't afford to keep wasting time.

Had they won tonight they may have fancied their forward line just the way it is.

I don't think Bazza would have been much help last night. The Saints flooded back in big numbers leaving no room for the Doggies forwards to lead into. Hall would have been double teamed with a high possibility of another Saint zoning off to help out.
Still, I reckon Rocket will try and get Hall anyway.

[CureTheSane]

Hall would have been double teamed

That in itself would have been of benefit.

[RogueSwan]

That in itself would have been of benefit.

Didn't seem to help us. We still kept looking for him. Maybe the Doggies are smarter.

[CureTheSane]

Wouldn't be hard :)

same old story with the Swans.
Only one game plan.

[j s]

Surely now the dogs will make a play for Hall.
Their lack of a true forward has shown them up again.... they're right on the cusp of a premiership and can't afford to keep wasting time.

Had they won tonight they may have fancied their forward line just the way it is.

I agree - they really needed a target forward.

[RedRosie]

Think its time for a poll of who will get him . Come on Scott you love doing this stuff and dont have any other priorities on this gorgeous weekend do you. :D

[troyjones2525]

After last nights game and seeing what a power forward like Riewoldt did to them i reckon Hall will be a way more attractive offer to the Bulldogs than ever! I'm not saying that Hall is as good as Riewoldt but he definitely is capable of taking a big mark and goal when needed. The time is NOW for the Bulldogs and Hall is the best available power forward going round at the moment. If they cant win a flag with him there and fit next year they never will! Lets hope that after last night they realize that they need Bazza more than ever and maybe we can play a little more hard ball with them and get a better trade for us out of it!:)

[liz]

The issue for Hall and the Dogs is the salary cap. Reportedly they have a challenge to fit their existing list under the cap, even before agreeing to a larger contract for Lake. They may well land up chopping someone like Eagleton just to stay under.

Factor in Hall and something is likely to give. It may come down to why Hall wants to play on. Is it just about rehabilitation and enjoyment of the game? Is he prepared to play for little more than minimum wages? If he thinks he still deserves a decent sized contract to play (and I wouldn't argue he doesn't) the Dogs may not be able to accomodate him unless they let one of their "stars" go.

[Red]

I agree - they really needed a target forward.
What they really needed was to stop bombing the ball long & high into their F50.

Their forwards were too short for the St. K defenders, who repelled every single time except a couple that somehow fell into Brad's hands.

I don't know why 'master tactician' Rocket didn't change something up either by moving players or ordering the delivery forward low, or even along the ground.

Footscray will learn the hard way about Eade, as we had to. Good enough for close, but never quite all the way.

[DST]

What they really needed was to stop bombing the ball long & high into their F50.

Their forwards were too short for the St. K defenders, who repelled every single time except a couple that somehow fell into Brad's hands.

I don't know why 'master tactician' Rocket didn't change something up either by moving players or ordering the delivery forward low, or even along the ground.

Footscray will learn the hard way about Eade, as we had to. Good enough for close, but never quite all the way.

Facts are, in the H&A season the dogs get away with having a small forward line and kicking winning scores.

When it comes to finals and the pressure (real and perceived) is on, going long to a target man to either mark or bring it to ground is the difference between making a GF and winning one or not.

It was never more evident than last night when under pressure from the Saints that went longer to a two on one in their forward line and the Saints were able to either mark or bring it back out again.

Their pressure skills and contensted footy was great last night and they were better this year than last due to that, but they won't make a GF or win it next year unless they can get a big KP forward that can take a grab when under pressure and kick the goal they needed.

There is absolutely no doubt now that either Hall or Llyod will be at the kennel next year and they will sacrifice one of Aker, Johnson or Welsh along with Everitt to get one of them under their salary cap.

DST
:D

[ernie koala]

Facts are, in the H&A season the dogs get away with having a small forward line and kicking winning scores.

When it comes to finals and the pressure (real and perceived) is on, going long to a target man to either mark or bring it to ground is the difference between making a GF and winning one or not.

It was never more evident than last night when under pressure from the Saints that went longer to a two on one in their forward line and the Saints were able to either mark or bring it back out again.

Their pressure skills and contensted footy was great last night and they were better this year than last due to that, but they won't make a GF or win it next year unless they can get a big KP forward that can take a grab when under pressure and kick the goal they needed.

There is absolutely no doubt now that either Hall or Llyod will be at the kennel next year and they will sacrifice one of Aker, Johnson or Welsh along with Everitt to get one of them under their salary cap.

DSTmuch
:D

Agree with your thoughts, except the Lloyd part. Hall is much more your power forward who can stand his ground against any defender, as well as lead up the ground. Added to this, Eade obviously rates Baz, as it was he who brought Hall to Sydney in the first place.

[RogueSwan]

Agree with your thoughts, except the Lloyd part. Hall is much more your power forward who can stand his ground against any defender, as well as lead up the ground. Added to this, Eade obviously rates Baz, as it was he who brought Hall to Sydney in the first place.

Hall was at his best on a lead, not contested marking, which is more the Lloyd way. I don't think Lloyd's body could handle a full season + finals though.

[Reggi]

Well the Dogs have declared their hand. I hope the cub assists him to get where he wants to go, been a great servant

[cruiser]

The issue for Hall and the Dogs is the salary cap. Reportedly they have a challenge to fit their existing list under the cap, even before agreeing to a larger contract for Lake. They may well land up chopping someone like Eagleton just to stay under. And that's how Sydney could do well through trading Hall to the Dogs. We have a lot of room in our salary cap.

[Kirkari]

Aker seemed pretty keen on the idea on Before the Game last night, and very in-the-know about Bazza's likely approach to fitting inton the team, despite claiming to not know where the club stands on the issue.

[reigning premier]

Their pressure skills and contensted footy was great last night and they were better this year than last due to that, but they won't make a GF or win it next year unless they can get a big KP forward that can take a grab when under pressure and kick the goal they needed.

There is absolutely no doubt now that either Hall or Llyod will be at the kennel next year and they will sacrifice one of Aker, Johnson or Welsh along with Everitt to get one of them under their salary cap.

DST
:D

Agree entirely...... A big fwd would of been teh difference and we'd be talking about a Dogs & Cats GF.

I'd be happy to take Everitt for hall in a trade... :D

[DST]

From what I am now lead to beleive, any deal we do with the Dog's to trade Hall can involve us paying some of his salary.

That would mean that we could end up with a better deal (ie an earlier pick or a fringe player) if we agree to take on some of Hall's salary to get him the Dogs and under their salary cap.

If that is the case, that would make the deal much more interesting on our behalf.

DST
:D

[hammo]

From what I am now lead to beleive, any deal we do with the Dog's to trade Hall can involve us paying some of his salary.

That would mean that we could end up with a better deal (ie an earlier pick or a fringe player) if we agree to take on some of Hall's salary to get him the Dogs and under their salary cap.

If that is the case, that would make the deal much more interesting on our behalf.

DST
:D

Are you sure? Hall is out of contract so I don't know why the Swans would even contemplate paying part of his salary - even if it were possible.

Usually clubs pay part of a players' salary if he is traded while still having time to run on a contract.

[BSA5]

Are you sure? Hall is out of contract so I don't know why the Swans would even contemplate paying part of his salary - even if it were possible.

Usually clubs pay part of a players' salary if he is traded while still having time to run on a contract.

If it meant getting a better deal with a trade, with the tonnes of salary cap room we've got, maybe it would be worth it. Hell, we'd probably pay his entire salary in exchange for a first round pick!

Can you actually do that though? If a bloke is out of contract and you trade him, are you allowed to pay part of his salary in order to get a better deal? Or is that considered cheating?

[AnnieH]

If it meant getting a better deal with a trade, with the tonnes of salary cap room we've got, maybe it would be worth it. Hell, we'd probably pay his entire salary in exchange for a first round pick!

Can you actually do that though? If a bloke is out of contract and you trade him, are you allowed to pay part of his salary in order to get a better deal? Or is that considered cheating?

If we've got that much money, I'd rather keep it in our coffers.
Kinda like a "future fund" if you will.

[laughingnome]

If we've got that much money, I'd rather keep it in our coffers.
Kinda like a "future fund" if you will.

It's not the club's money - it's the AFL's.

[UglyDuckling]

We would have to recontract him then do a trade. Interesting idea we pay some of bazza's wage, the dogs may get a flag and we get a better long term player. Everyone wins

[BSA5]

It's not the club's money - it's the AFL's.

Quite right, which is why we have to spend a minimum 92.5% (I think, it's some figure like that) of the salary cap. If they're looking like falling short, perhaps that would be a useful way of getting up and over that.

[caj23]

Are you sure? Hall is out of contract so I don't know why the Swans would even contemplate paying part of his salary - even if it were possible.

Usually clubs pay part of a players' salary if he is traded while still having time to run on a contract.

Correct

There is no way that we will re-contract him and pay part of his salary, that is just pure fantasy

[BSA5]

Correct

There is no way that we will re-contract him and pay part of his salary, that is just pure fantasy

Imagine you were the Doggies, and were stretching the salary cap as it was (as they apparently are). If you want Hall, you have one of two options: get Hall very cheap and trade Lake under value to relieve salary cap pressure, or get Hall for slightly more and have the Swans pay part of his salary, which would allow you to keep Lake. If I was the Dogs, I'd take the second option.

If it meant the difference between a 3rd round pick and a second round pick, and it helped them stay above the salary cap lower limit, I'm sure the Swans would consider it (if it is something that is allowed, I'm not sure if it is).

[AnnieH]

I fail to see the merit in paying any of blind barry's future wages.
I'm pretty sure the club will fail to see the merit also.

[caj23]

Imagine you were the Doggies, and were stretching the salary cap as it was (as they apparently are). If you want Hall, you have one of two options: get Hall very cheap and trade Lake under value to relieve salary cap pressure, or get Hall for slightly more and have the Swans pay part of his salary, which would allow you to keep Lake. If I was the Dogs, I'd take the second option.

If it meant the difference between a 3rd round pick and a second round pick, and it helped them stay above the salary cap lower limit, I'm sure the Swans would consider it (if it is something that is allowed, I'm not sure if it is).

Of course the Dogs would do it, but the Swans wouldn't. I doubt the AFL would allow it in any event

[DST]

I fail to see the merit in paying any of blind barry's future wages.
I'm pretty sure the club will fail to see the merit also.

If it can be done (and it is highly unlikely as it will involve us contracting Barry again for next year to enable the Dogs to off load some of the salary), I can't see a reason why we would not do it for the right deal.

And when I say right deal it would need to be in the ilk of A Everitt as a direct swap, whcih is in effect us getting a top 10 pick for Hall plus some of his wages next year.

We would be crazy not to do that deal, considering where we are at at present in our barganing power and the chance to get a young KP defender or forward that ranks as a top 10 pick.

DST
:D

[laughingnome]

If it can be done, I agree with DST. It's basically paying for a first round draft pick player.

[DST]

Of course the Dogs would do it, but the Swans wouldn't. I doubt the AFL would allow it in any event

The AFL might not allow it in the future, but it is a loop hole in place now and we can exploit it then yes why not.

As far as I can see, there is nothing stopping the Swand sitting down with Hall and the Doggies and offering to contract Hall for another year to then off load him to the Dogs for a specific player swap and us throwing in some cash to pay for Hall's contract at the Dogs.

It's out there, but could benefit both of us, as we are looking for a draft pick or young player and have spare cap room and the Dogs a key forward but no cap room for a full Hall contract.

It has been done in the past with deals like Stafford and Richmond to enable a deal but protect salary cap space and the only thing different here is that Hall would need to sign a new contract before being traded.

DST
:D

[hammo]

And when Hall hits a bloke next season the Swans will be liable as his employer.

Sorry but this suggestion is ridiculous. We should only pay for players who actually play for us. The club won't even consider this scenario for a minute.

Anyway, where is the evidence that it is even possible? This is a debate based on a hypothetical and highly improbable scenario.

Also, people here are concerned about the Swans' reputation if we take players in the pre season draft instead of trading. How exactly would this form of cheating play with the other clubs?

[caj23]

i think some of you are overlooking the small fact that the swans probably dont have a spare $250,000 to pay a player who is not even on their books :rolleyes:

[Primmy]

i think some of you are overlooking the small fact that the swans probably dont have a spare $250,000 to pay a player who is not even on their books :rolleyes:

Details, mere details Will. :p

[BSA5]

i think some of you are overlooking the small fact that the swans probably dont have a spare $250,000 to pay a player who is not even on their books :rolleyes:

Really? How about the retirements this year of Barry Hall, Michael O'Loughlin, Leo Barry, Jared Crouch, Tadhg Kennelly and Nic Fosdike, plus the fact that this money comes from the AFL, not the club (which is why we have to spend 92.5% of it, to prevent us hoarding it).

[Nico]

i think some of you are overlooking the small fact that the swans probably dont have a spare $250,000 to pay a player who is not even on their books :rolleyes:

I would hope we go the full quota of rookies in 2010 rather than waste money on Hall. Been plenty of gems come out of the rookies.

[voodooguru]

After their dismal showing up forward on Saturday night, you'd think Collinghood would be thinking about Bazza as well.

[DST]

I would hope we go the full quota of rookies in 2010 rather than waste money on Hall. Been plenty of gems come out of the rookies.

Is Jnr Everitt wasting money as opposed to a late third rounder or fourth?

If we are going to pay some of Hall's wage in a deal, it will be for the gain of someone like Jnr Everitt so I can't see how that is a waste of money!

As noted previously, we are in effect buying a player that could possibly go for a top 10 on the open marker from our extra cap space in a deal like this.

DST
:D

[BSA5]

And when Hall hits a bloke next season the Swans will be liable as his employer.

Sorry but this suggestion is ridiculous. We should only pay for players who actually play for us. The club won't even consider this scenario for a minute.

Anyway, where is the evidence that it is even possible? This is a debate based on a hypothetical and highly improbable scenario.

Also, people here are concerned about the Swans' reputation if we take players in the pre season draft instead of trading. How exactly would this form of cheating play with the other clubs?

The evidence that it is possible is that it has happened before. Rawlings had part of his contract paid by the Doggies when he went to North, from memory.

Also, the Swans could simply sign Hall, terminate the contract immediately, pay Hall out for the termination, and in exchange Hall takes this money and signs a contract of lower value at the Dogs, allowing them to fit him under the cap.

[laughingnome]

Also, the Swans could simply sign Hall, terminate the contract immediately, pay Hall out for the termination, and in exchange Hall takes this money and signs a contract of lower value at the Dogs, allowing them to fit him under the cap.

Now that option sounds a bit dodgy. There's no secret that Sydney don't want Hall to stay, so the auditors will ask why we gave him a contract just to terminate it.

[Hartijon]

The underlining assumption of this thread is that Hall is still a Champion player who could walk into a top team like the Doggies and magically win them a Flag.I talk to supporters of other teams and they see him quite differently.They see a player past his prime,a potential liability who in 2006 went missing on the biggest stage and most important match of the year.He certainly didn't win the Swans a flag in 2006 and has been a disruptive influence since.None of them want him and have the same attitude many Swans supporters have towards Lovett except Lovett has more upside than Hall.I therefore feel a lot of this discussion is redundant and Hall might be very lucky to find a home.

[ernie koala]

The underlining assumption of this thread is that Hall is still a Champion player who could walk into a top team like the Doggies and magically win them a Flag.I talk to supporters of other teams and they see him quite differently.They see a player past his prime,a potential liability who in 2006 went missing on the biggest stage and most important match of the year.He certainly didn't win the Swans a flag in 2006 and has been a disruptive influence since.None of them want him and have the same attitude many Swans supporters have towards Lovett except Lovett has more upside than Hall.I therefore feel a lot of this discussion is redundant and Hall might be very lucky to find a home.

How supporters view certain players can often be completely different to how coaching/ recruiting staff view them. I've heard many coaches and excoaches in the media, talk of what a devastating player Hall is and the difficulty of matching up against him. Roos himself refered to him earlier this season as the Swans best player.
I reckon he will be keenly sought after by at least a few clubs.

[Cardinal]

The underlining assumption of this thread is that Hall is still a Champion player who could walk into a top team like the Doggies and magically win them a Flag.I talk to supporters of other teams and they see him quite differently.They see a player past his prime,a potential liability who in 2006 went missing on the biggest stage and most important match of the year.He certainly didn't win the Swans a flag in 2006 and has been a disruptive influence since.None of them want him and have the same attitude many Swans supporters have towards Lovett except Lovett has more upside than Hall.I therefore feel a lot of this discussion is redundant and Hall might be very lucky to find a home.

Most other clubs' supporters think the Swans are crap, dour have a poor list and will be bottoming out for the next 10 years. They also think we jagged 2005 out of our arses with some very unlikely final wins.

Then again there is no doubt that Bazza has not been the same since the 2006 loss.

[hammo]

DST can you explain how re-signing Hall at his market price and then trading him is any different to slapping a high price on an out of contract player and legitimately taking him in nthe pre season draft?


The AFL might not allow it in the future, but it is a loop hole in place now and we can exploit it then yes why not.

As far as I can see, there is nothing stopping the Swand sitting down with Hall and the Doggies and offering to contract Hall for another year to then off load him to the Dogs for a specific player swap and us throwing in some cash to pay for Hall's contract at the Dogs.

It's out there, but could benefit both of us, as we are looking for a draft pick or young player and have spare cap room and the Dogs a key forward but no cap room for a full Hall contract.

It has been done in the past with deals like Stafford and Richmond to enable a deal but protect salary cap space and the only thing different here is that Hall would need to sign a new contract before being traded.

DST
:D





If Lake walked out on the Dogs and then ended up in Sydney via the PSD, knowing that we have the cap room and cash to pay him would leave a sour taste in a lot of people mouths regarding the club.

We have worked hard to earn the respect of the football world, no need to throw it all away for a cheap night out on the Lake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DST
:D

[caj23]

Really? How about the retirements this year of Barry Hall, Michael O'Loughlin, Leo Barry, Jared Crouch, Tadhg Kennelly and Nic Fosdike, plus the fact that this money comes from the AFL, not the club (which is why we have to spend 92.5% of it, to prevent us hoarding it).

Huh????

I'm not sure you fully understand the concept.

The club pays the players not the AFL. The salary cap is simply a limit placed on the amount a club can spend on its list to ensure that the haves (e.g. Collingwood) don't dominate the competition over the havenots (e.g. Kangaroos).

The Swans operations are run as a normal business and I think if you check the Annual Reports for the last couple of years we have been making some pretty hefty losses. We certainly aren't in a position to be hoarding bucketloads of spare cash

Yes we will make some savings as a result of departures of those players, but you might also note that we only took a couple of rookies last year as a result of cashflow issues and this year we may wish to take the full complement.

Anyway, Barry Hall is not going to be re-contracted so he can be traded for a higher value so you might as well give up on this scenario as it's simply not going to happen:rolleyes:

[laughingnome]

Huh????

I'm not sure you fully understand the concept.

The club pays the players not the AFL. The salary cap is simply a limit placed on the amount a club can spend on its list to ensure that the haves (e.g. Collingwood) don't dominate the competition over the havenots (e.g. Kangaroos).


In short, no.

In order to guarantee that every club can afford to pay their players the AFL distributes $7,693,750 (2009) to each of the 16 clubs - 123 million dollars in total - to spend on their playing list. This is done so that clubs which may be cash-strapped don't forfiet talent to protect the bottom line. Mant clubs in the NSL suffered from this problem and eventually killed the competition, and this is what the AFL endevours to avoid through all of these equality programs.

Because the AFL hands out the money, there is a minimum amount clubs must also spend on their playing lists, currently 92.5% or $7,116,718.75 (referred to as a salary floor). This prevents clubs hoarding the AFL's money into their own coffers, again sacrificing on field talent for off-field finances.

Nominated rookies and veteran players (veteran: over 30 and played at least 10 years at the club) have a 50% exemption in the cap. Sydney also enjoys a 5% exemption (down from 15% since 2003) as a cost-of-living allowance.


If you don't believe some or any of this you can read the AFLPA's Collective Bargaining Agreement for 2007 - 2011 (http://aflpa.com.au/sites/all/files/AFLPA_AFL_CBA_2007_2011_FINAL.pdf) and see for yourself.

[caj23]

In short, no.

In order to guarantee that every club can afford to pay their players the AFL distributes $7,693,750 (2009) to each of the 16 clubs - 123 million dollars in total - to spend on their playing list. This is done so that clubs which may be cash-strapped don't forfiet talent to protect the bottom line. Mant clubs in the NSL suffered from this problem and eventually killed the competition, and this is what the AFL endevours to avoid through all of these equality programs.

Because the AFL hands out the money, there is a minimum amount clubs must also spend on their playing lists, currently 92.5% or $7,116,718.75 (referred to as a salary floor). This prevents clubs hoarding the AFL's money into their own coffers, again sacrificing on field talent for off-field finances.

Nominated rookies and veteran players (veteran: over 30 and played at least 10 years at the club) have a 50% exemption in the cap. Sydney also enjoys a 5% exemption (down from 15% since 2003) as a cost-of-living allowance.


If you don't believe some or any of this you can read the AFLPA's Collective Bargaining Agreement for 2007 - 2011 (http://aflpa.com.au/sites/all/files/AFLPA_AFL_CBA_2007_2011_FINAL.pdf) and see for yourself.

Ok so if a club is struggling then theoretically they will pay the 92.5% if possible and keep the balance of $538,562 to pay for other operating costs

I doubt we will hit 100% of the cap in 2010, but I'm pretty sure the club would see it as a priority to use the surplus in other areas as opposed to pissing it away on a player who will be playing for an opposition club.

If he was already contracted for next year then that may be an option (and has been previously in cases such as Daffy and Rawlings), but since he isn't then it is a ridiculous suggestion.

[Plugger46]

The underlining assumption of this thread is that Hall is still a Champion player who could walk into a top team like the Doggies and magically win them a Flag.I talk to supporters of other teams and they see him quite differently.They see a player past his prime,a potential liability who in 2006 went missing on the biggest stage and most important match of the year.He certainly didn't win the Swans a flag in 2006 and has been a disruptive influence since.None of them want him and have the same attitude many Swans supporters have towards Lovett except Lovett has more upside than Hall.I therefore feel a lot of this discussion is redundant and Hall might be very lucky to find a home.

I've heard the complete opposite. I reckon there's about 1 in 5 'Dogs supporters who don't want Hall.

[BSA5]

Ok so if a club is struggling then theoretically they will pay the 92.5% if possible and keep the balance of $538,562 to pay for other operating costs

I doubt we will hit 100% of the cap in 2010, but I'm pretty sure the club would see it as a priority to use the surplus in other areas as opposed to pissing it away on a player who will be playing for an opposition club.

If he was already contracted for next year then that may be an option (and has been previously in cases such as Daffy and Rawlings), but since he isn't then it is a ridiculous suggestion.

But with so many senior players going, unless we've signed guys like Vespa, Bird, Jack, Grundy and White to ridiculously good deals, we'll probably need some help getting over the 92.5% anyway.

I really don't see what's so hard to imagine about the Swans contributing a certain amount to Hall's salary, in exchange for the Dogs giving us a better pick. I'm not sure if the Dogs need it. But if they do, then I reckon the Swans would be mad not to take it (within reason, I wouldn't want us paying his entire contract for one pick upgrade, for example, that would just be ridiculous).

[reigning premier]

And when Hall hits a bloke next season the Swans will be liable as his employer.

Sorry but this suggestion is ridiculous. We should only pay for players who actually play for us. The club won't even consider this scenario for a minute.

Anyway, where is the evidence that it is even possible? This is a debate based on a hypothetical and highly improbable scenario.

Also, people here are concerned about the Swans' reputation if we take players in the pre season draft instead of trading. How exactly would this form of cheating play with the other clubs?


Please don't start a "Duty of care" argument again.....

[ScottH]

According to Rocket himself, they haven't spoked to Hall, but now their season is over they will start chatting with him and his manager to see where he is at, physically, and mentally.

[AnnieH]

According to Rocket himself, they haven't spoked to Hall, but now their season is over they will start chatting with him and his manager to see where he is at, physically, and mentally.

Blind Barry is Rocket's love child.

[DST]

DST can you explain how re-signing Hall at his market price and then trading him is any different to slapping a high price on an out of contract player and legitimately taking him in nthe pre season draft?

Very happy to Hammo.

In short, we wil be assisting us, Hall and the club that wants him in this type of deal.

Under the other scenario, we would be ripping a club off if we induced their player to name their price and used the PSD as a weapon to get him.

A deal for Hall like the above, would only enhance our reputation in the market place as to a club willing to help all parties when trading.

DST
:D

[AnnieH]

Very happy to Hammo.

In short, we wil be assisting us, Hall and the club that wants him in this type of deal.

Under the other scenario, we would be ripping a club off if we induced their player to name their price and used the PSD as a weapon to get him.

A deal for Hall like the above, would only enhance our reputation in the market place as to a club willing to help all parties when trading.

DST
:D


Sorry.
Which club is willing to help all parties when trading????
It's every man for himself.

[liz]

Very happy to Hammo.

In short, we wil be assisting us, Hall and the club that wants him in this type of deal.

Under the other scenario, we would be ripping a club off if we induced their player to name their price and used the PSD as a weapon to get him.

A deal for Hall like the above, would only enhance our reputation in the market place as to a club willing to help all parties when trading.

DST
:D


Except it smells pretty fishy.

Think about taking things a step further. Two clubs could work in tandem with each other to "manage" their salary caps in counter-cycles, allowing one to compete (unfairly) for premierships and the other to rebuild, then vice versa.

My guess is that the AFL would prefer that clubs never paid salaries of players on other lists - it compromises the whole idea of a salary cap. But given the trading process is already completely constipated, disallowing this practice totally would make it almost impossible for players to change clubs. Most players are only on two or three year contracts though - so in all likelihood these arrangements exist for only a year most of the time.

For the Swans to re-contract Barry given all that's happened, and then ship him off to the Bulldogs while continuing to pay him certainly reeks of buying draft picks and even if technically allowed, certainly seems like cheating.

[DST]

Except it smells pretty fishy.

Think about taking things a step further. Two clubs could work in tandem with each other to "manage" their salary caps in counter-cycles, allowing one to compete (unfairly) for premierships and the other to rebuild, then vice versa.

My guess is that the AFL would prefer that clubs never paid salaries of players on other lists - it compromises the whole idea of a salary cap. But given the trading process is already completely constipated, disallowing this practice totally would make it almost impossible for players to change clubs. Most players are only on two or three year contracts though - so in all likelihood these arrangements exist for only a year most of the time.

For the Swans to re-contract Barry given all that's happened, and then ship him off to the Bulldogs while continuing to pay him certainly reeks of buying draft picks and even if technically allowed, certainly seems like cheating.

I know it looks fishy and the AFL will probably close it down once it happens.

But at this stage it's legal and an area the club could use to get a deal for Hall at the Doggies and improve our draft or player position than a straight deal for Hall with salary implications for the Dogs.

DST
:D

[DST]

Sorry.
Which club is willing to help all parties when trading????
It's every man for himself.

We have been in the past and I am sure the club would like to think of itself as helping all parties out when trading players, not just trying to get one over like Whorethorn.

Ultimately means that all clubs will trade with us come trade time in good faith and increases our ability to get deals done.

DST
:D

[Primmy]

We have had a good reputation for doing agreeable deals with Collingwood and Adelaide and Brisbane (witness Shaw and Matner and Bolton). They have someone they can't use, we would like to give them a go, lets do a deal.

Its only jerks like Hawthorn you wouldn't touch - they are not particularly interested in their players well being.

When Peb wanted to be traded Swans did try to find a club for him, but it didn't work out. We have never prevented anyone from leaving. Not that they want to in the first place!

The last to leave voluntarily was I think Scott Stevens, and he made a happy hunting ground for himself.

[liz]

I know it looks fishy and the AFL will probably close it down once it happens.

But at this stage it's legal and an area the club could use to get a deal for Hall at the Doggies and improve our draft or player position than a straight deal for Hall with salary implications for the Dogs.

DST
:D


But is it currently legal? If it is not within the spirit of the salary cap and trading/drafting rules, there is also a good chance that it is not within the letter of those regulations.

[ugg]

I vaguely remember a rule about not being able to trade a player with x days of signing a new contract. Or perhaps that's another sport...

[hammo]

We have had a good reputation for doing agreeable deals with Collingwood and Adelaide and Brisbane (witness Shaw and Matner and Bolton). They have someone they can't use, we would like to give them a go, lets do a deal.

We didn't trade for Bolton - he was taken in the pre-season draft.

[hammo]

I vaguely remember a rule about not being able to trade a player with x days of signing a new contract. Or perhaps that's another sport...

It could be in the first year of a contract where you can't trade, which is why you never see first year draftees change clubs.

[Nico]

According to Rocket himself, they haven't spoked to Hall, but now their season is over they will start chatting with him and his manager to see where he is at, physically, and mentally.

Some task trying to work out where he is at mentally.

[Triple B]

I vaguely remember a rule about not being able to trade a player with x days of signing a new contract. Or perhaps that's another sport...

I THINK that rule goes along the lines of you cannot trade a player recently signed against their will.

As it stands, a player has no real say (eg. Schneider, Dempster) and if traded, well they are traded.

I think that rule covers that part of it.

[ugg]

I THINK that rule goes along the lines of you cannot trade a player recently signed against their will.

As it stands, a player has no real say (eg. Schneider, Dempster) and if traded, well they are traded.

I think that rule covers that part of it.
That rule applies to any contracted player, you cannot trade them unless they agree to it. While Schneider was initially reluctant to go, after talking to Roos and Lyon he eventually accepted the trade and willingly went to St Kilda.

[Legs Akimbo]

That rule applies to any contracted player, you cannot trade them unless they agree to it. While Schneider was initially reluctant to go, after talking to Roos and Lyon he eventually accepted the trade and willingly went to St Kilda.

A good decision maker, both on and off the field, is Adam.

[ugg]

Scott Welsh is retiring, making Hall's move to the Dogs even more likely.

[Primmy]

We didn't trade for Bolton - he was taken in the pre-season draft.

Don't mess with a good post with mere details Hammo!!!:p

[ernie koala]

Scott Welsh is retiring, making Hall's move to the Dogs even more likely.

With Lloyd also retiring, hopefully Baz's stocks are rising.

[ScottH]

With Lloyd also retiring, hopefully Baz's stocks are rising.

And Rocca retiring as well.

[Kirkari]

And Rocca retiring as well.

Yay!!!

[msb]

I am really confused with the barry hall situation. He retires from the swans and says "I cant trust myself on the football field" yet is now prepared to go to another club and continue his career? Why wouldnt he want to continue with the swans if he wants to play football again? He could of turned around to the club and said he wanted to take the rest of the year off, I really dont see the difference in that and what he is doing now by wanted to continue with another club next season. I can only assume the club has forced him out the door, which they said was not the case, I have probably missed something here, but what is the overall reason that he does not want to continue with the swans?

[Wardy]

I am really confused with the barry hall situation. He retires from the swans and says "I cant trust myself on the football field" yet is now prepared to go to another club and continue his career? Why wouldnt he want to continue with the swans if he wants to play football again? He could of turned around to the club and said he wanted to take the rest of the year off, I really dont see the difference in that and what he is doing now by wanted to continue with another club next season. I can only assume the club has forced him out the door, which they said was not the case, I have probably missed something here, but what is the overall reason that he does not want to continue with the swans?

Dont know - but best not to open the can of worms and differences of opinion on the matter again- it does cause a bit of tension on this board - so I guess, as far as my beloved Baz is concerned, its time to move on.

[Plugger46]

I am really confused with the barry hall situation. He retires from the swans and says "I cant trust myself on the football field" yet is now prepared to go to another club and continue his career? Why wouldnt he want to continue with the swans if he wants to play football again? He could of turned around to the club and said he wanted to take the rest of the year off, I really dont see the difference in that and what he is doing now by wanted to continue with another club next season. I can only assume the club has forced him out the door, which they said was not the case, I have probably missed something here, but what is the overall reason that he does not want to continue with the swans?

He was clearly pushed. IMO they just set the press conference up, so both parties came away looking as good as they possibly could.

[BSA5]

I am really confused with the barry hall situation. He retires from the swans and says "I cant trust myself on the football field" yet is now prepared to go to another club and continue his career? Why wouldnt he want to continue with the swans if he wants to play football again? He could of turned around to the club and said he wanted to take the rest of the year off, I really dont see the difference in that and what he is doing now by wanted to continue with another club next season. I can only assume the club has forced him out the door, which they said was not the case, I have probably missed something here, but what is the overall reason that he does not want to continue with the swans?

He knew he'd lost the trust of the club, whether they pushed him or not. It would have been foolish to stay. He may have just read the play well and decided that leaving would be the best option, without the club actually telling him to go.

[caj23]

Heard Ray McLean speak today who is the consultant who was the architect of the "bloods code" and is still involved with the swans

When asked about Hall he said that the hit on Rutten was the final straw for the playing group.

Hall faced the leadership group who asked him if he could guarantee that he wouldn't do it again which he said he couldn't. He then went away for a few days and came back with the decision to leave the swans

Apparently Kirk was a key driver of the process.

[ScottH]

David Smorgon declared the dogs would be trading aggresively, and a bog forward is on the agenda, which it has been for the past 4 years. Said they would consider all options, and Hall is one of them.

[goswannie14]

I am really confused with the barry hall situation. He retires from the swans and says "I cant trust myself on the football field" yet is now prepared to go to another club and continue his career? Why wouldnt he want to continue with the swans if he wants to play football again? He could of turned around to the club and said he wanted to take the rest of the year off, I really dont see the difference in that and what he is doing now by wanted to continue with another club next season. I can only assume the club has forced him out the door, which they said was not the case, I have probably missed something here, but what is the overall reason that he does not want to continue with the swans?Kirks smirk!

[CureTheSane]

That's the impression I've always had, that he was pretty much forced to leave.
And he handled it all perfectly.
Obviously, it becomes evident WHY he handled it all so well, with his intention of playing on next season with another club.

[Nico]

Heard Ray McLean speak today who is the consultant who was the architect of the "bloods code" and is still involved with the swans

When asked about Hall he said that the hit on Rutten was the final straw for the playing group.

Hall faced the leadership group who asked him if he could guarantee that he wouldn't do it again which he said he couldn't. He then went away for a few days and came back with the decision to leave the swans

Apparently Kirk was a key driver of the process.

A highly emotionally intelligent person that Brett Kirk.

[Nico]

David Smorgon declared the dogs would be trading aggresively, and a bog forward is on the agenda, which it has been for the past 4 years. Said they would consider all options, and Hall is one of them.

Bog forward......please explain.

[Lucky Knickers]

Bog forward......please explain.
Fevola

[dimelb]

Fevola
Oh yes! :p

[ScottH]

Bog forward......please explain.

Tis Kiwi, for BIG.

[ugg]

Bazza to appear on gameday live season review in a few minutes. 7HD for Sydney viewers

[Cardinal]

Maybe he'll name the Dogs as his preferred club

[ugg]

Maybe he'll name the Dogs as his preferred club
He said 0.5 on a scale of 0 to 1, to which Aker replied 'you always round the 0.5s up'. Aker seems really keen on the idea.

He didn't reveal anything that we haven't heard before. His manager is certainly earning his keep getting him on all these shows.

[Cardinal]

He's going to the Dogs - he couldn't hide the glint in his eye. The thought of our defence up against Bazza terrifies me. Hopefully that will be balanced out by the euphoria of a good draft pick.

[ugg]

...the Dogs

Hall to join Bulldogs - RFNews - realfooty.com.au (http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/hall-to-join-bulldogs/2009/09/23/1253385038089.html)


BARRY Hall and Jason Akermanis look set to join forces on the Western Bulldogs forward line next season with Hall now certain to be offered a two-year deal and Akermanis expected to play on.

[Jeffers1984]

Good choice Bazza. I can live with that.

Hopefully we can snare that 2nd rounder but if not , 3rd rounder + Brennan Stack will be nice

[laughingnome]

Not for Andy Everitt?

[BSA5]

Good choice Bazza. I can live with that.

Hopefully we can snare that 2nd rounder but if not , 3rd rounder + Brennan Stack will be nice

Would be happy with that, but with any luck Eade has one of his vendettas against Everitt, and it becomes 3rd rounder + Everitt. I'd be very, VERY happy with that!

[DeadlyAkkuret]

I'm happy with this, I like the Dogs and at least he wont be at Collingwood or Carlton. If the Bulldogs win the flag next year I'll be happy for them and Bazza.

[ugg]

Would be happy with that, but with any luck Eade has one of his vendettas against Everitt, and it becomes 3rd rounder + Everitt. I'd be very, VERY happy with that!
Everitt seems set for Carlton for their pick #27. If so, I think the Bulldogs won't need their current second rounder #31. judging from the their list of outs, they only need 2 ND picks (#15 and #27) after upgrading Picken and Mulligan and bringing in Hall. We could then easily claim #31 for Hall which would be a great result.

[BSA5]

Everitt seems set for Carlton for their pick #27. If so, I think the Bulldogs won't need their current second rounder #31. judging from the their list of outs, they only need 2 ND picks (#15 and #27) after upgrading Picken and Mulligan and bringing in Hall. We could then easily claim #31 for Hall which would be a great result.

On BF, I threw up the idea of getting Everitt to Sydney by making it Hall for Everitt and a swap of third rounders (crazy as it sounds, when you break it down, compared to Hall for 3rd rounder and fringe player and Everitt for 27, Dogs actually do better, unless the fringe player was on the verge of being delisted anyway), but I'd like that idea more. If the Doggies, with a good strong youthful list, go conservative in a weak draft, then getting pick 31 for Hall would be fantastic! And if the bit-part player still came with, even better! Though if that player came, then the Dogs would need to use another draft pick, meaning they'd need pick 31 anyway....

[Reggi]

... Hawthorn.

Bookmark it.

Don't worry, we will buddy, we will :D

[Wardy]

Interesting to note too that Phil Mullen is now Bazza'a manager - would like to see him do really well, play the next two years out then retire from the game on his terms.

[Kirkari]

...The thought of our defence up against Bazza terrifies me. ...

Do you think there are any of our defenders who've given Bazza particular grief over the past several months? If so, they might be a little terrified themselves. Will anyone be brave enough to try to provoke a brainsnap to get a 50?

[goswannie14]

Interesting to note too that Phill Mullen is now Bazza'a manager - would like to see him do really well, play the next two years out then retire from the game on his terms.Hear, hear!!!


Do you think there are any of our defenders who've given Bazza particular grief over the past several months? If so, they might be a little terrified themselves. Will anyone be brave enough to try to provoke a brainsnap to get a 50?I reckon Kirk will be hearing footsteps when he plays against Baz!

[Dalai Lama]

It will be an intersting state of affairs if he drops LRT with a Staker style uppercut first up against the Swans in 2010?

[Donners]

Everitt seems set for Carlton for their pick #27. If so, I think the Bulldogs won't need their current second rounder #31. judging from the their list of outs, they only need 2 ND picks (#15 and #27) after upgrading Picken and Mulligan and bringing in Hall. We could then easily claim #31 for Hall which would be a great result.

Carlton's already given up their first pick; hard to see them giving up their second.

Pick #31 may not be a particularly "great result" in a weak draft, though of course we have got good players from worse picks.

If we get Everitt, then that saves us worrying about trading for Seaby.

[Plugger46]

If we get Everitt, then that saves us worrying about trading for Seaby.

Why do you say that? I'm not overly keen on Seaby but Everitt will only ever be a part-time ruckman - just not big enough.

[BeeEmmAre]

I liked the mention in that article that Daniel Bradshaw could be available - lets get the Lions into the three way trade.
Hall-Dogs
Everitt-Lions
Bradshaw-Swans

We'd probably need to throw in something else to Brisbane as well.

[Dave]

I'm happy with this, I like the Dogs and at least he wont be at Collingwood or Carlton. If the Bulldogs win the flag next year I'll be happy for them and Bazza.

I'd go along with that.

[caj23]

I liked the mention in that article that Daniel Bradshaw could be available - lets get the Lions into the three way trade.
Hall-Dogs
Everitt-Lions
Bradshaw-Swans

We'd probably need to throw in something else to Brisbane as well.

He's a Lion for life

[liz]

I liked the mention in that article that Daniel Bradshaw could be available - lets get the Lions into the three way trade.
Hall-Dogs
Everitt-Lions
Bradshaw-Swans

We'd probably need to throw in something else to Brisbane as well.

Can't fathom why

a) the Swans would be interested in Bradshaw, given his age and where the team is currently at

b) the Lions would have the slightest interest in offloading Bradshaw, given where their team is currently at

c) if for some bizarre reason Bradshaw was available to another club, the Dogs wouldn't just go for him. He'd probably cost them less in $ though more in trade currency. But he'd be a far less risky option than Hall given Hall's uncertain onfield temperament.

[Primmy]

Horrible thought. LRT may be the only Swan big enough to take on BBB! Hmm.. Either the boys will be wary, or BBB will be.

He knows he is loved by this club, Boys, Members, Leadership Group. No question about that. But come game day, I don't know whether I would be looking forward to it, or stressed to blazes.

[Young Blood]

Everitt seems set for Carlton for their pick #27. If so, I think the Bulldogs won't need their current second rounder #31. judging from the their list of outs, they only need 2 ND picks (#15 and #27) after upgrading Picken and Mulligan and bringing in Hall. We could then easily claim #31 for Hall which would be a great result.

Agreed - something around #30 for Baz would be a fair deal.

[shaun..]

Horrible thought. LRT may be the only Swan big enough to take on BBB! Hmm.. Either the boys will be wary, or BBB will be.

He knows he is loved by this club, Boys, Members, Leadership Group. No question about that. But come game day, I don't know whether I would be looking forward to it, or stressed to blazes.

I can see the niggling already! A few jumper punches, headlocks, tantrums, quick swipe and a friendly embrace at the end

[dimelb]

I'm pleased: I've got my wish for Baz and for the Doggies. And next year we'll have to do a bit of double tagging just like everyone else did to us.

[RogueSwan]

I can't imagine our defence would be too worried about Bazza, just double team him and he'll get frustrated.
the problem would be if we give the Doggies midfield too much time for clean delivery into the F50.
I think we would all mark down the Doggies games as a loss anyway, but always hoping for a win.

[swansrule100]

hall should still be a swan it will be awful to see him in dogs colours. wish him the best, but would love to see him in the red and white still

[Hartijon]

I can see the niggling already! A few jumper punches, headlocks, tantrums, quick swipe and a friendly embrace at the end,Yeah,spectators have to realise all that "rough stuff" is just letting off tension.It's not real! Guys have a drink with each other afterwards. The guy who slugs you that hardest is the one you have the biggest laugh with after the game.

[goswannie14]

Baz has been spotted in Broadford during the last week.

[AnnieH]

Rodney Eade's love child is going back to his sugar daddy.

Hope his sugar daddy can control him.

[caj23]

,Yeah,spectators have to realise all that "rough stuff" is just letting off tension.It's not real! Guys have a drink with each other afterwards. The guy who slugs you that hardest is the one you have the biggest laugh with after the game.

yeah I'm sure Staker was kacking himself with Baz as he drank his dinner through a straw :rolleyes:

[goswannie14]

yeah I'm sure Staker was kacking himself with Baz as he drank his dinner through a straw :rolleyes:Why?:confused: He didn't have a broken jaw, in fact he played the next week and was reported for striking!

[swansrob]

We should recruit Staker and he can take on Hall when we play the dogs next year.

[Kirkari]

,Yeah,spectators have to realise all that "rough stuff" is just letting off tension.It's not real! Guys have a drink with each other afterwards. The guy who slugs you that hardest is the one you have the biggest laugh with after the game.

I don't buy that for a second! Maybe true at social level but not in the AFL. Kirk's comment in a recent interview was that "maybe" after he retires he will be able to develop friendships with some of his epic opponents, but not yet.

[Hartijon]

Why?:confused: He didn't have a broken jaw, in fact he played the next week and was reported for striking!

Baz apologised and I believe genuinely so. No professional AFL footballer (with maybe a couple of exceptions) goes out wanting to seriously hurt another purposely. They maybe snap or lose it. There is a comraderie between gladiators but that doesn't mean they won't go hell for leather at each other during the gamewithin the rules of the game. Players regret it if they do purposely hurt each other and the long memories means it is a dangerous thing to do.Retribution can come swiftly and unexpectedley. It was wise of Lloyd to retire rather than face Hawthorn again.

I still believe my earlier post that BAZ is seriously overrated by this post. Look at our star O'Keefe last year.! Nobody wanted him so why would they line up for BAZ after his track record since 2006 GF? For two years in a row we played better without him and who wants a player that cannot control himself? If guru Kirk cannot quiet him down can you see Eade of Johston doing it? Baz I sadly feel will just fade out of the game.
I think Baz will be on the PSD and grabbed by Fremantle which has no recognizable player plan.

[caj23]

Why?:confused: He didn't have a broken jaw, in fact he played the next week and was reported for striking!

Actually he didn't play the following week against Port Adeliade due to concussion and obviously wasn't reported for striking

[Bloodlines]

Request for info here gang. if Baz goes to the doggies what do we settle for? I note some saying Swans won't play hard ball as they want barry to be settled soemwhere. Why not play hardball? this a chance for a high draft pick and maybe a player. I can't see Swans falling for the softly softly approach. Especially as with the new stadium deal; in Melbourne the Vic clubs are rolling in money (after years of bleating maybe now they will shut up) We need to get as much for Hall as we can. And we need trade concessions and a lift in our salary cap.

[Primmy]

Bloodlines, Swans have always gone softly softly, and done brilliantly. BBB has resigned from the Club, but still needs releases etc. So, scratch my back, I'll scratch yours will be the go, as usual. We have no hardball to play with.

[DST]

Reports suggest that the Doggies will be happy to let go their third pick. but we may try it on for a second round.

Probably end up being a third round pick and a fringe player like Tom Lynch in the end, which in all circumstances is adequate.

And for those calling for Everitt Jnr as the fringe player get real. On the open market he is worth a late first rounder and will not be part of this deal. unless it is a straight swap and that is highly unlikely.

DST
:D

[caj23]

I reckon we should be asking for a 2nd rounder on the following basis:

1. They finished 4th and a late 3rd rounder is almost a 4th rounder

2. Aker was worth pick 32 - Hall is worth the equivalent

3. They are desparate to get him

I'm not suggesting that we go OTT and stuff it all up, but we should be reasonably compensated in the trade

[rojo]

I would go for Everitt junior in the deal for Bazza. With our 7 most senior players holding the team together next year, who is our next premiership team going to be built around? Apart from perhaps LRT of the 2nd tier players, it would be McVeigh, hopefully Malceski, along with Jack and Grundy and hopefully, White, Johnston, Smith, Bird, Hanno, Vesz, Meredith and Currie. Everitt seems to rate and would potentially be a good addition to that group.

[Mr Magoo]

I just hope we dont be all reasonable and easy just because somehow the Swans feel guilty about the circumstances of the departure and we get sucked into trading with them on the basis that they are taking a chance on a loose cannon.

Bulldogs premiership window is open, they are desperate for a ready made big forward and there are few options and certainly none internally that are likely to spring up in the next six months.

As an aside , I tell you what I will be really pissed off with Hall if he comes out and plays a disciplined game of football with no losses of temper or tantrums when things arent going his way. If Bulldogs get the Hall of 2005 and 2006 in this trade we should feel mighty ripped off.

[BeeEmmAre]

Can't fathom why

a) the Swans would be interested in Bradshaw, given his age and where the team is currently at

b) the Lions would have the slightest interest in offloading Bradshaw, given where their team is currently at

c) if for some bizarre reason Bradshaw was available to another club, the Dogs wouldn't just go for him. He'd probably cost them less in $ though more in trade currency. But he'd be a far less risky option than Hall given Hall's uncertain onfield temperament.


Good queries as usual Liz.

a) Yes, Bradshaw is about to turn 31, but that still makes him younger than the two key forwards we have just lost, and if a genuine full forward was to be on the market we'd be mad not to look at him.

b) I dunno why either, he's an out and out star despite having always had to play second fiddle to Lynch and now Brown. I just ran with the comment in the story Hall off to Bulldogs posted by ugg yesterday, which said the following:

The Bulldogs denied reports they had offered Matthew Lloyd a two-year deal or even spoken to the retiring Essendon captain and have reportedly not entertained a trade with the Brisbane Lions for Daniel Bradshaw, who has been unofficially put forward by the Lions.

c) Again, I can't answer that - but the closest to an answer is also in the above par from The Age story.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

I just hope we dont be all reasonable and easy just because somehow the Swans feel guilty about the circumstances of the departure and we get sucked into trading with them on the basis that they are taking a chance on a loose cannon.

Bulldogs premiership window is open, they are desperate for a ready made big forward and there are few options and certainly none internally that are likely to spring up in the next six months.

Agree, we'll probably just end up with a 3rd rounder + fringe player and that would be acceptable, but trading is about trying to get the best deal first which is why we need to push for Everitt.


As an aside , I tell you what I will be really pissed off with Hall if he comes out and plays a disciplined game of football with no losses of temper or tantrums when things arent going his way. If Bulldogs get the Hall of 2005 and 2006 in this trade we should feel mighty ripped off.

I was thinking about this, I'm happy for Hall and am glad he's playing for a club that I don't hate, but if things don't go his way and he's all calm about it I'll feel betrayed and really disappointed. Some people on here think we treated him unfairly, but he was given many chances by us.

I blame most of it on the umpires, anyway.

[robamiee]

would prefe him to be in the red and white....

Good luck to him, except against our boys..

Bolton will be the one who gets him.

[Robbo]

hall should still be a swan it will be awful to see him in dogs colours. wish him the best, but would love to see him in the red and white still


Not really.

[Legs Akimbo]

This may seem like a dumb question, but BBBH started the year playing for Sydney. The retired, briefly, and has announced his comeback. Why is he not coming back with Sydney?

This whole situation is confusing.

[CureTheSane]

This may seem like a dumb question, but BBBH started the year playing for Sydney. The retired, briefly, and has announced his comeback. Why is he not coming back with Sydney?

This whole situation is confusing.

Simply, because the Swans do not want him in the team.

The way it has been since that last incident.

Personally, I would like Hall to be traded for a player, rather than a draft selection.

All this talk of the Swans not being a contended for years and years irritates me.
No reason why we can't be right in the mix next year if all goes to (the right) plan.

[Robbo]

Probably because he was pushed.

[ugg]

Roosy is hoping for a second rounder citing the Akermanis and Everitt deals as precedents.

[Legs Akimbo]

Simply, because the Swans do not want him in the team.

The way it has been since that last incident.

Personally, I would like Hall to be traded for a player, rather than a draft selection.

All this talk of the Swans not being a contended for years and years irritates me.
No reason why we can't be right in the mix next year if all goes to (the right) plan.

Sort of my point. BBBH punches Rutten, club suspends him. Hall ponders future, retires, says it is his decision, can't guarantee he won't do it again. Big love in follows, lap of SCG in car etc. Everyone loves everyone else. But at no stage has BBBH said he is has been dumped by the Swans per se.

Now the seasons is over, he says he wants to play again. Then Swans say they will help him move to another club. Let's call a spade a spade, Sydney dumped Hall not because he punched Rutten but because it was expedient to do so. I guess there was a lot more @@@@ happening behind the scenes between player and club and players and player than is evident. I guess up until today, I took it all at face value. Credit to all concerned though for putting it into the public domain.

Maybe I was not paying enough attention when it all happened.

[liz]

Roosy is hoping for a second rounder citing the Akermanis and Everitt deals as precedents.

Aker was a couple of years younger than Hall / Everitt and the Dogs have already had three good to very good years out of him and look set for one more.

The Everitt trade is a decent precedent though. Their ages are almost identical (at time of trade), they were of similar standard player at their peak and the respective expectations of the Swans and Dogs at the times of trade are pretty similar. Plus the fact that the Pilchard was hanging out for our first round pick in a draft that was considered pretty strong at the time (maybe less so in hindsight) supports the idea that we didn't grossly over pay for Everitt in terms of perceived value.

I still think we're likely to get better value, though, by claiming a promising 20-21 year old who needs to be sacrificed as a result of the reported salary cap pressures at the Dogs. Not that I have anyone specifically in mind. The three youngsters at the Dogs who most excite me - Higgins, Ward and Hill - we have absolutely zero chance of snagging. Well, zero chance for the first two and exceedingly low chance in the case of Hill.

[ugg]

The two years being offered to Hall would probably be one way they could fit him in their salary cap. With Aker Johnson and Eagleton unlikely to be playing in 2011 they could heavily backend Halls contract for 2011

[Nico]

Sort of my point. BBBH punches Rutten, club suspends him. Hall ponders future, retires, says it is his decision, can't guarantee he won't do it again. Big love in follows, lap of SCG in car etc. Everyone loves everyone else. But at no stage has BBBH said he is has been dumped by the Swans per se.

Now the seasons is over, he says he wants to play again. Then Swans say they will help him move to another club. Let's call a spade a spade, Sydney dumped Hall not because he punched Rutten but because it was expedient to do so. I guess there was a lot more @@@@ happening behind the scenes between player and club and players and player than is evident. I guess up until today, I took it all at face value. Credit to all concerned though for putting it into the public domain.

Maybe I was not paying enough attention when it all happened.

Very interesting post Legs. Hall was on SEN this arvo and what struck me was that he cited the Swans game plan as restricting him and that he had tired of Sydney. No accountability for his own actions at all. The condescending way he referred to the game plan reminded me of the sooky la la antics he displayed if the ball wasn't kicked to him. He almost seemed to be blaming the game plan for his inability to reach his full potential. It sounded as if he just expects it all to happen with the likes of Higgins and Cooney hitting him on the chest with ridiculous regularity. So it was a suitable game plan when we won the flag but it is not now, just to suit his position and argument.

No mention of the Swans taking him in and making a player of him after his non descript career at St Kilda. No mention of his female issues that seemed to side track him regularly and again he couldn't promise that his onfield demenour would change. Then he contradicted himself by saying he wouldn't be going to the Dogs if he didn't think he could turn himself around.

Makes me certain that as you said, there was more going on behind the scenes.

[CureTheSane]

Sort of my point. BBBH punches Rutten, club suspends him. Hall ponders future, retires, says it is his decision, can't guarantee he won't do it again. Big love in follows, lap of SCG in car etc. Everyone loves everyone else. But at no stage has BBBH said he is has been dumped by the Swans per se.

Now the seasons is over, he says he wants to play again. Then Swans say they will help him move to another club. Let's call a spade a spade, Sydney dumped Hall not because he punched Rutten but because it was expedient to do so. I guess there was a lot more @@@@ happening behind the scenes between player and club and players and player than is evident. I guess up until today, I took it all at face value. Credit to all concerned though for putting it into the public domain.

Maybe I was not paying enough attention when it all happened.

I see it this way.

If Hall had been a bitch and started a public slanging match, it would have done him, nor the Swans any favours.

He realised that it was over at the Swans - or it was made clear to him, and he took the high road and it will serve him well now.

Good on him for not coming out with 'his side of the story'
Sadly, some of the Swans were the only ones who couldn't button their mouths.

Hall caused his own demise, but from there he handled everything in the best possible way IMO.

[Mr Magoo]

I dont think we got the real story from any side. All the Swans did was come out and condemn his actions. Nothing wrong with that and if they hadnt they would be copping the same flak that Carlton has in recent days over Fevolas actions.

[ShockOfHair]

Rodney Eade's love child is going back to his sugar daddy.

Hope his sugar daddy can control him.

Malthouse summed it up best: "If Roos and Kirk can't control Barry Hall what hope does anyone else have?"

Good luck Baz in the new colours. Not sure I believe the deal is done. Where's our second round draft pick?

[Donners]

Why do you say that? I'm not overly keen on Seaby but Everitt will only ever be a part-time ruckman - just not big enough.

With White, Goodes, Everitt and LRT all in the best 22, I think that there will be plenty of breaks for Jolly as required. Let's not forget that he rucked much of 2006 with minimal support.

Brisbane had no real backup for Clark and nor did Essendon for Ryder and Fremantle for Sandilands.

[ugg]

Let the games begin: Bulldogs want to offer 63, we want pick 31.

Swans haggle on Hall | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/sydney-swans-haggle-on-barry-hall/story-e6frf8w6-1225779520526)

The dreaded "We'll take him in the PSD then" threat has already been dragged out. So much for friendly dealings.

[DST]

Who cares if we don't get the full story.

Both the club and Hall have held their tongue on the issue and this has allowed all parties to move forward without complications.

Hall has no one to blame but himself for how it ended in Sydney and in the end the club had no other option but to part ways with him.

I hope he does well at the Dogs, we get compensated adequately and we get the chance to play some of our younger guys going forward next year which is exciting.

DST
:D

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Pick 63, so basically nothing. They're the ones that want him while their window is still open, yet they pretty much want it for free.

I hope another team comes into the picture now and they miss out, if that's the attitude they have.

[Kirkari]

Let the games begin: Bulldogs want to offer 63, we want pick 31.

Swans haggle on Hall | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/sydney-swans-haggle-on-barry-hall/story-e6frf8w6-1225779520526)

The dreaded "We'll take him in the PSD then" threat has already been dragged out. So much for friendly dealings.

""We're more than happy to take our chances in the draft," Fantasia said." A bold bargaining statement but clearly untrue. If they were MORE THAN HAPPY to do that, then why would they talk about giving a draft and possibly a player at all?

I say we go hard - they know they need a proven tall forward and are sick of losing preliminary finals.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Yep, go hard. What do we have to lose? If pick 63 is their offer we can happily let him to into the PSD and I wouldn't rule Carlton out. You can't tell me Bazza wouldn't go to Carlton if they wanted him, Bulldogs can continue to just fall short for another 2-3 years.

[RedRosie]

Yep and I wouldnt count out Essendon either. Love the way the article says "But the Dogs will refuse to budge on what they regard as an ambit claim for the 32-year-old key forward, who was pushed out by the Swans." There is no proof of that ! :) What does Barry get? 650K. Suppose he will need it if he has to pay his own fines. This whole article makes it sound like the club are making it very hard for Barry, what a crock of

[sWAns63]

Anyone who watched the game where the Bulldogs got eliminated by the Saints would of thought that Bazza would of probably got them over the line.
Pick 31 is realistic if they keep on offering crumbs put him in the draft and let some of the other hopefuls have a shot.
The Bulldogs have to decide if they really want to win a flag next season or get bundled out in the finals again, maybe it's their last chance.....they wont win a flag without Bazza.

[cruiser]

If the Dogs arent prepared to spend pick 32 to considerably improve their chances of a GF appearance and maybe a premiership they can go lose another PF for all I care.

[liz]

Can't see the point in trading him for a late 4th round pick. It is worth practically nothing. So unless the number one aim of the Swans is to help Barry do what he wants, we might just as well let him go for nothing.

It will likely come down to whether any other club really has a interest in him - not necessarily as a trade but if he comes as a freebie in the draft. If so, or even if the Dogs think there might be, they'll come up with something more than that.

[Plugger46]

Very interesting post Legs. Hall was on SEN this arvo and what struck me was that he cited the Swans game plan as restricting him and that he had tired of Sydney. No accountability for his own actions at all. The condescending way he referred to the game plan reminded me of the sooky la la antics he displayed if the ball wasn't kicked to him. He almost seemed to be blaming the game plan for his inability to reach his full potential. It sounded as if he just expects it all to happen with the likes of Higgins and Cooney hitting him on the chest with ridiculous regularity. So it was a suitable game plan when we won the flag but it is not now, just to suit his position and argument.

No mention of the Swans taking him in and making a player of him after his non descript career at St Kilda. No mention of his female issues that seemed to side track him regularly and again he couldn't promise that his onfield demenour would change. Then he contradicted himself by saying he wouldn't be going to the Dogs if he didn't think he could turn himself around.

Makes me certain that as you said, there was more going on behind the scenes.

He was pushed out of a club by people who didn't want him to be there, while some of his teammates and coaches took pot-shots at him in the media. Since then, he's been fairly quiet and hasn't said all that much about the club so I really don't think he could've handled himself much better.

As for the game-plan part, he's probably just trying to put a positive spin on going to the Bulldogs.

As for the 'Swans taking him in' - what a load of rubbish. The guy was already a quality player and we gave up plenty for him. We weren't throwing him a lifeline or anything. He topped the goalkicking 7 times and was arguably our most important player through one of our most successful periods. He offered great service and owes the club nothing.

Why should he have to discuss his love-life in the media? Totally irrelevant to anything football. 'Seemed to side-track him' - you actually wouldn't have a clue.

[573v30]

Pick 63??? You've got to be kidding me...

[RedRosie]

He was quite ok about the bulldogs thing when he was selling himself again on BTG. Any one else feel Spider was having a go at him ignoring him and singing Three Cheer while with the St Kilda supporters . :p

[2005]

After watching Bazza on Before The Game, he is still issues with his temper


He got grilled by comedians and wanna be funnymen last night on a light hearted show about his temper issues and he was very uncomfortable and wasnt taking it that well either. He will be under the microscope big time with the Melbourne Media when he starts playing again , constant scrutiny day after day. Its an issue he will have to deal with all the time.

By the way Plugger the Swans did take him in , he has said it before on numerous occasions. He was finished with the Saints
We gave extended time in the AFL, that he wouldnt of got at the Saints.
We did save a football career with him, no doubt about it.
Agree that he owes us nothing now, he was a vital cog in what we achieved as a club in 2005 and gave us some wonderful football, though the same ideas and principals that gave him a premiership, gave him the captaincy , gave him more years at the top level, gave him a say in our ethos & were the same ideas and principals that bought him undone.
Wish we still had him ,really do, fact is hes gone.
We have every right now to get what we want for him , Im sure the club will look after Barry, more importantly we must look after ourselves

[CureTheSane]

One minute most people here are happy to completely dump Hall from the side and let him drift off into AFL nothingness.

Now, everyone is in debate about what we should be getting for him.

Surely those who advocate his dismissal from the Swans (and therefore, based on his behaviour, AFL in general) should be sticking to their guns and suggesting that Barry should not be playing for any team because of his anger issues and be demanding that he is simply delisted.

[caj23]

One minute most people here are happy to completely dump Hall from the side and let him drift off into AFL nothingness.

Now, everyone is in debate about what we should be getting for him.

Surely those who advocate his dismissal from the Swans (and therefore, based on his behaviour, AFL in general) should be sticking to their guns and suggesting that Barry should not be playing for any team because of his anger issues and be demanding that he is simply delisted.

What a ridiculous argument, I don't want him playing for the Sydney Swans, I dont give a toss what the other 15 clubs do with their playing roster

He now has some value for us and we should be getting the best offer we can for him.

[CureTheSane]

What a ridiculous argument, I don't want him playing for the Sydney Swans, I dont give a toss what the other 15 clubs do with their playing roster

He now has some value for us and we should be getting the best offer we can for him.

Well, considering most of those statements were made from a moral standpoint, not so ridiculous.

Your standpoint on Hall, Mr. Will, seems to have been "no good for the Swans but he can play for some other team"
Fair enough.

Many other POV's were that Hall should have 'left the Swans' because of his actions on field being 'unsportsmanlike' or 'not in the best interests of the game' or whatever, and now everyone seems to see him as being someone who is still worth of playing football.
Kinda can't have it both ways.

Swans should negotiate a one year deal with him - behaviour based of course.
Considering the number of draft selections we already have, and what we would potentially get for him, it makes sense to me.

[ScottH]

I've seen more of Hall on TV (excluding games, news, and tribunals) in the last week, than I have in his entire career.

His managers must be trying to endear him to the Melbourne public again.

BTW 2005, i thought he looked quite comfortable on BTG last night.

[Donners]

Swans should negotiate a one year deal with him - behaviour based of course.


That obviously can't happen, since those bridges have been well and truly burned and urinated upon (South Park or Untouchables reference, take your pick).


Many other POV's were that Hall should have 'left the Swans' because of his actions on field being 'unsportsmanlike' or 'not in the best interests of the game' or whatever, and now everyone seems to see him as being someone who is still worth of playing football.
Kinda can't have it both ways.



It was by his own admission that he couldn't trust himself, regardless of what people here thought. No club should keep a player on in those circumstances. For some reason, he is now able to control himself - or thinks he can - sufficiently to play. Since his departure from Sydney is inevitable, we may as well get some compensation for the fact that we will now have to face him.

[Nico]

He was pushed out of a club by people who didn't want him to be there, while some of his teammates and coaches took pot-shots at him in the media. Since then, he's been fairly quiet and hasn't said all that much about the club so I really don't think he could've handled himself much better.

As for the game-plan part, he's probably just trying to put a positive spin on going to the Bulldogs.

As for the 'Swans taking him in' - what a load of rubbish. The guy was already a quality player and we gave up plenty for him. We weren't throwing him a lifeline or anything. He topped the goalkicking 7 times and was arguably our most important player through one of our most successful periods. He offered great service and owes the club nothing.

Why should he have to discuss his love-life in the media? Totally irrelevant to anything football. 'Seemed to side-track him' - you actually wouldn't have a clue.

I have never said he didn't give us great service. I was making comment on what he said, and again there appeared to be no accountability and the fault was elsewhere.

[Lohengrin]

I thought the Swans said they were keen to help Hall get to the club of his choice?

[Cardinal]

Hall back to Saints - THEORY !!

[sharp9]

CTS...I guess you are speaking to the very small minority taking a ridiculously high moral road...the rest of us are treating Barry like ans ex-girlfriend....it's just not going to work with us...but that doesn't mean she's not good enough for some other bloke!

[Bear]

The tool can go wherever he wants.

He cost us the Hawthorn game (at least) this year, not to mention others he didn't play - so if we can make up for that in some way (a highr pick) - we should.

Bargain hard. Nothing to lose.

[Reggi]

He's been a star for us and I wish him well

we should have traded him last year really, but I wish him well

No Hall no 2005 Premiership

Seems there are 4-5 clubs who are trading with the expectation they can win the GF next year

[Primmy]

He's been a star for us and I wish him well

we should have traded him last year really, but I wish him well

No Hall no 2005 Premiership

Seems there are 4-5 clubs who are trading with the expectation they can win the GF next year

Point and Touche!

[goswannies]

Hall back to Saints - THEORY !!

Your theory has precident

Jayson Daniels: Saints -> Swans -> Saints
Paul Morwood: Swans -> Saints -> Swans

but what to trade for....

Hall: Saints -> Swans -> Saints
for...
Schneider & Dempster: Swans -> Saints -> .....(idea)

[Plugger46]

The tool can go wherever he wants.

He cost us the Hawthorn game (at least) this year, not to mention others he didn't play - so if we can make up for that in some way (a highr pick) - we should.

Yep, only focus on the bad points as always :rolleyes:

[Wardy]

The tool can go wherever he wants.

He cost us the Hawthorn game (at least) this year, not to mention others he didn't play - so if we can make up for that in some way (a highr pick) - we should.

.

Wow - so he cost us in the games he did play in , and cost us in the games he didnt play in - Geez poor bugger couldnt win either way ;)

[AnnieH]

One minute most people here are happy to completely dump Hall from the side and let him drift off into AFL nothingness.

Now, everyone is in debate about what we should be getting for him.

Surely those who advocate his dismissal from the Swans (and therefore, based on his behaviour, AFL in general) should be sticking to their guns and suggesting that Barry should not be playing for any team because of his anger issues and be demanding that he is simply delisted.

Probably because for once, we have something to trade with. I for one am sick of getting nothing for nothing.

Let him play elsewhere and be someone else's problem.
The Melbourne media will eat him alive anyway.

[goswannie14]

Wow - so he cost us in the games he did play in , and cost us in the games he didnt play in - Geez poor bugger couldnt win either way ;)It does make you wonder doesn't it?

[Plugger46]

The Melbourne media will eat him alive anyway.

They'll love him now, you just watch - it's already started.

[Triple B]

I hope another team comes into the picture now and they miss out, if that's the attitude they have.

There is another team.

When I started this thread it wasn't an opinion piece, it was based on fact from an impeccable source.

Since then the Hawks have become more bullish on Burgoyne which may have softened their desire to chase Hall hard due to no room in the salary cap. If they snare Burgoyne they may not be able to offer Hall the promised contract.

The Bulldogs have also since been bundled out agonisingly short again and their resolve to grab Hall may have strengthened.

The bottom line, if the Bulldogs think they can offer the Swans peanuts because nobody else is interested, they are very much mistaken.

[Reggi]

Triple you seem confident still....

I think 5-6 teams will consider themselves premiership chance next year, which will add

[Triple B]

Triple you seem confident still....


Certainly not as confident as when I posted, due to the factors I mentioned above, but my mail at the time was certainly correct that the Hawks had agreed to take him, obviously subject to the Swans brokering a suitable deal.

If Hall is forced into the pre-season draft, I'd imagine the Hawks would be fairly well placed with picks before the Bulldogs, Essendon and Carlton which have been among the clubs 'reported' to have shown interest.

[hammo]

Certainly not as confident as when I posted, due to the factors I mentioned above, but my mail at the time was certainly correct that the Hawks had agreed to take him, obviously subject to the Swans brokering a suitable deal.

If Hall is forced into the pre-season draft, I'd imagine the Hawks would be fairly well placed with picks before the Bulldogs, Essendon and Carlton which have been among the clubs 'reported' to have shown interest.
I understand this but Hall has nominated the Dogs as his preferred club and the Swans have said they'll work to get Hall where he wants to go. We may like to believe otherwise, but Hall nominating the Dogs has weakened our bargaining position.

[liz]

If the Blues do decide to ditch Fevola, they'd be in the market for an immediate presence up forward, you'd reckon. Especially if he were relatively cheap in trade terms (ie considerably less than the top 10 pick plus multiple best-22 players that some Blues fans think they might get for trading Fevola.)

Have to wonder about their salary cap, mind. Especially since any club interested in Fevola would have to view itself as a contender in the near future and would have their own salary cap issues. Fev is contracted and would have to be on a substantial package. To get anything like top trade value for him they might need to keep paying some of his salary.

[ugg]

First rounder for Burgoyne
Second rounder for Gibson
Third rounder for Hall?

[hammo]

If the Blues do decide to ditch Fevola, they'd be in the market for an immediate presence up forward, you'd reckon. Especially if he were relatively cheap in trade terms (ie considerably less than the top 10 pick plus multiple best-22 players that some Blues fans think they might get for trading Fevola.)

Have to wonder about their salary cap, mind. Especially since any club interested in Fevola would have to view itself as a contender in the near future and would have their own salary cap issues. Fev is contracted and would have to be on a substantial package. To get anything like top trade value for him they might need to keep paying some of his salary.
You'd think if Fev suddenly became available the Dogs would quickly drop their interest in Hall.

[liz]

You'd think if Fev suddenly became available the Dogs would quickly drop their interest in Hall.

Agree that he'd be a better fit for them. But I suspect the difference between what Fevola is currently contracted to Carlton for and what Hall might reasonably ask for next year would be somewhere between $200-400k. Even if it is at the lower end of that range, it could be a challenge for a club that reportedly already has a bit of a challenge to fit under it's salary cap for next year. They'd have to give up a pretty good player as well as draft picks to get Fevola. As we've been told, they think they might be able to snare Hall in the PSD.

[Cardinal]

Fev for Hall and 2nd rnd pick

[Reggi]

Agree that he'd be a better fit for them. But I suspect the difference between what Fevola is currently contracted to Carlton for and what Hall might reasonably ask for next year would be somewhere between $200-400k. Even if it is at the lower end of that range, it could be a challenge for a club that reportedly already has a bit of a challenge to fit under it's salary cap for next year. They'd have to give up a pretty good player as well as draft picks to get Fevola. As we've been told, they think they might be able to snare Hall in the PSD.

Can end up funny with draft cap rules. We ended up the unmentionable one from Richmond as the Tigers couldn't fit him under their cap. Not being percieved as as a threat could end up meaning we have another such player in one of these swaps

You never know

I don't want Fevola. Players like him are poison to Culture would Roos & Longmire put up with him?

Other than Dunstall (and Hawthorn had Dermott) I think sides with champion CHFs rather than FFs have tended togo better in Prelims and GFs. Maybe it's the space FFs need

Lockett Modra Capper Ablett SNR etc can't rememeber many being Premiership players

[Triple B]

Can end up funny with draft cap rules. We ended up the unmentionable on from Richmond as the Tigers couldn't fit him under their cap.


Okay, I'll whisper it - Nick Daffy

:p :p

[Reggi]

Okay, I'll whisper it - Nick Daffy

:p :p

NOOOOOOOOOO %#%@*O@)@{PP@O#IYU%#U NOOOO #^%@#I^U#^&@!(*&!&(*&@#$^$#(@*#$^%@#$@*O&#$*(U@*(&&@^#(*^&~@%#(~*@#^@*&&$E^@*&^$@*###!!!

Finally McVeigh has redeemed a jinxed jumper

[laughingnome]

Lockett Modra Capper Ablett SNR etc can't rememeber many being Premiership players

I can't name you the middle two but Lockett had Loewe at St Kilda and Ablett Snr had Brownless. Both were very potent duos that could wreck any team.

[Cardinal]

Fev for Hall and 2nd rnd pick

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/swans-linked-with-move-for-fevola/2009/09/28/1253989871751.html

Sometimes what I say has a smattering of plausibility if I do say so myself.

[ScottH]

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/swans-linked-with-move-for-fevola/2009/09/28/1253989871751.html

Sometimes what I say has a smattering of plausibility if I do say so myself.

Written by Martin Blake. :rolleyes:


According to SEN (not sure of who said it) :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The deal is already done.
Fev for ROK and a draft pick.

I certainly hope this is a load of crock.

[Wardy]

Written by Martin Blake. :rolleyes:


According to SEN (not sure of who said it) :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The deal is already done.
Fev for ROK and a draft pick.

I certainly hope this is a load of crock.

Perhaps its a typo? - Fev for ROC (Ryan O'Connor!);)

[Cardinal]

Perhaps its a typo? - Fev for ROC (Ryan O'Connor!);)

I thought of this option too but surely if we were to take on all of Fev's salary (without the benfit of him on the veteran's list) we could get away with a straight swap. Then again he is the Coleman medalist.


And when I say plausibility I mean like in a hypothetical sense of the meaning of logic.

[AnnieH]

Written by Martin Blake. :rolleyes:


According to SEN (not sure of who said it) :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The deal is already done.
Fev for ROK and a draft pick.

I certainly hope this is a load of crock.

No freakin way.
That's NOT going to happen.
ROK's not going anywhere.

[Kirkari]

No freakin way.
That's NOT going to happen.
ROK's not going anywhere.

Trade Duck Bum for Duck Head (apply NZ accent here)? You'd hope not!

[AnnieH]

Trade Duck Bum for Duck Head (apply NZ accent here)? You'd hope not!

Duck butt's worked to hard to win back the adoration of the fans, club and his team mates.

Duck butt will be named captain after Kirky retires next year.

Can anyone recall a current club champion being traded?

It's all just silly talk.


O?Keefe admitted that he had been wary of the reception waiting for him from the Bloods faithful after his attempt to change clubs.

?I was a little bit hesitant, not so much with the players or internally at the club, but with fans and members,? he said.

?I wasn?t quite sure what sort of response I?d get from them. I suppose after a while they warmed to me again, though.?

His repatriation was helped by his outstanding form during a trying season in which the Swans missed the finals for the first time in seven years.


Winner thanks the fans (http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/7106/newsid/84625/default.aspx)

[ScottH]

No freakin way.
That's NOT going to happen.
ROK's not going anywhere.

Thank your Melbourne Toy boy for that gem.

[Triple B]

Perhaps its a typo? - Fev for ROC (Ryan O'Connor!);)

or: Fev for DOK.

Now THAT, would be a win.

[sharp9]

Couldn't possibly be ROK PLUS a DRAFT PICK for Fev....they are both 28 year old All Australian.

Trading ROK would defeat the purpose of getting a short term player anyway...the whole idea would be to give us some sort of a chance at a flag in 2012...you don't do that by giving up one of your top 3 players!!! (Even if it is a fair trade).

What about Hall to Dogs for 31...Fev to Sydney for 22 and 31??

[AnnieH]

Thank your Melbourne Toy boy for that gem.

Which one?

[ScottH]

Which one?

The one that listens to SEN all day.

[AnnieH]

The one that listens to SEN all day.

Firstly, SEN.
You should know better.

Secondly, Swantastic.
Need I say more.
;)

Could be worse, it could have been our other friend!!! (You know who I mean.)

[ugg]

...to the PSD

Western Bulldogs' Hall trade hits snag - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/85490/default.aspx)

[giant]

Does Sydney have a moral obligation to get Barry to the Dogs? Seems to me that we do, and a 2nd rounder seems out of order given how this situation has come about.