The Swans left footers

[Auntie.Gerald]

have we got the most left footers in the comp ?



Kirk
ROK
Jack
Mattner
Malceski
Heath
Hannebery
Smithy

[eggbeater]

hawks would be up there wouldnt they?

[DeadlyAkkuret]

No suprise that three of our top midfield prospects in Jack, Hannebery and Smith are all left footers.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Generally there are a reasonable amount of right footers that play on the left side of the field ie their wrong side.....we have minimum 10 lefties and 8 will be genuinely pushing the 22 except Heath most likley and Sumner in 2010 anyway.

So given the FB, CHB, CHF and FF are not a disadvantage and the 4 possies down the left flank will naturally suit lefties I wonder if playing any of these guys on the right flank will be a disadvantage?

Potentially Jack and Hannebery could both be HF flanks but one may have to play the wrong side and if Smithy played in the Backs at all you would think that Mal and Mattner may have him covered !


Johnston?
Kirk
ROK
Jack
Mattner
Malceski
Heath
Hannebery
Smithy
Sumner

[swans song]

How many of them can kick on Both?

[reigning premier]

have we got the most left footers in the comp ?



Kirk
ROK
Jack
Mattner
Malceski
Heath
Hannebery
Smithy



You need to get a hobby.

[Nico]

Generally there are a reasonable amount of right footers that play on the left side of the field ie their wrong side.....we have minimum 10 lefties and 8 will be genuinely pushing the 22 except Heath most likley and Sumner in 2010 anyway.

So given the FB, CHB, CHF and FF are not a disadvantage and the 4 possies down the left flank will naturally suit lefties I wonder if playing any of these guys on the right flank will be a disadvantage?

Potentially Jack and Hannebery could both be HF flanks but one may have to play the wrong side and if Smithy played in the Backs at all you would think that Mal and Mattner may have him covered !


Johnston?
Kirk
ROK
Jack
Mattner
Malceski
Heath
Hannebery
Smithy
Sumner



Let me get this right or is that left. If you are looking at the telly and we are kicking to the right of the screen, then when we are attacking the right side is the right hand side of the ground when you are looking up the ground from the centre square.

So if a right footer plays on that side he is naturally going to the boundary line when he turns onto his right foot. So he is in effect on the wrong side because he is not turning to the centre corridor to deliver to his full forward. Then again he may have been on his correct side when Hall was leading because most of the time he led to the boundary.

Now if the right footer was on the other side, which is the left side, then when he gets a set shot for goal he is in a better position to kick for goal because it opens up the goal face. Take Buddy Franklin who is left footer, then he is far more advantaged by taking a set shot from the right side which suits his left foot because he swings to his left towards the centre corridor when kicking, hence he opens up the angle much more.

So the correct side for a forward to play is the opposite to what he kicks. The great Des Bethke had a very wide turning circle slightly greater than the Queen Mary, so being a leftie he always played on the right flank otherwise he would have been 10 rows back when he kicked it if he played on the left flank.

If you take the backline it is a different story. If say Nick Smith played on the left back flank then he turns on his left foot and goes to the boundary in a defensive play. So it is best to play on your wrong side. This theory however gets turned on it's head by Ted Richards who stuffs it up no matter which side he plays on.

Leo Barry threw all theories out the window because although a leftie he always went left on his first move, but preferred to then come back to his right where he was as useless as tits on a bull, and confuse the hell out of team mates and fall into the hands of the opposition. I firmly believe that he thought that if one of our blokes was 50 metres on his own on the left HFF it was clearly the wrong option. He may very well have been a rightie locked in a lefties body.

Now if you have too many lefties, who by the way are more likely to be horribly left than a rightie is horribly right who seem to be more adaptable to their left side, then the defensive side of the opposition is far easier to marshall as they know that a lot of the players only need to play on one side of their opponent, being the left side. You see if you play beside their left foot that restricts them going to their left side and frustrates the hell out of them. If you play on their right side they are free to run to their natural side.

Some coaches theorise that if the leftie plays on the left side going forward that the opponent is always playing boundary side to restrict them, hence the corridor is opened up with less players flooding in there. So the leftie going forward on his left side tends to hook the ball to the corridor to the leading forward who has fewer players dropping in the hole. This thoery holds up for us given we have a modern history of few goals coming from midfielders who play on their right side of the ground enabling them to open up the angle. They tend to chip it to the hole except when Hall led to the pocket which was most of the time.

I must say the argumment of whether lefties play on the right or righties to the left is far easier to understand than the theories of smalls playing tall and talls playing small, given that if someone is tall they are tall not small, and if someone is small they are small not tall. I am yet to be convinced that Seaby will be able to play small in the forward pocket and crumb goals (I believe crumbers went out with Kevin Bartlett) and Nick Smith who is small can play tall on a tall forward. He could play tall on a small forward only if he was taller than that samll forward.

I rest my case, on the left half foward flank.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Nico that was completely from "leftfield" :)

and now for the Dala lama of Left footers..........what a great article

Brett Kirk is a true great | The Daily Telegraph (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/brett-kirk-is-a-true-great/story-e6freyar-1225703262868)

[Auntie.Gerald]

PS is Nick Smith Captain Kirks love child..........I think I am hoping too much but wouldnt it be lovely that young Nick turns out to be our next Captain Kirk

[Nico]

Generally there are a reasonable amount of right footers that play on the left side of the field ie their wrong side.....we have minimum 10 lefties and 8 will be genuinely pushing the 22 except Heath most likley and Sumner in 2010 anyway.

So given the FB, CHB, CHF and FF are not a disadvantage and the 4 possies down the left flank will naturally suit lefties I wonder if playing any of these guys on the right flank will be a disadvantage?

Potentially Jack and Hannebery could both be HF flanks but one may have to play the wrong side and if Smithy played in the Backs at all you would think that Mal and Mattner may have him covered !


Johnston?
Kirk
ROK
Jack
Mattner
Malceski
Heath
Hannebery
Smithy
Sumner


AG you are seriously delusional if you think Malceski was a better footballer in 2009 than Smith. Smith was one of the great finds of 2009 and Malceski was an abject failure. I don't give a rats toss bag if Malceski was suffering from a knee reconstruction hangover, he was as soft as Riccotta cheese.

[Auntie.Gerald]

just to clarify:......... the sentence was alluding to Smithy maybe playing in teh backs maybe not ie in the context that he is a very fair chance of playing wing rather than HB flank........but if Mal comes back baby well he is a very worthy director of the ball with the deft left kick driving from HB flank.

personally I would have Jack and McVeigh starting on the wings with either Smith or Jetta coming off the bench.

I want Mattner to become Leo Barry in defence if possible :) not asking much and plus he has a much better kick than Leo.

I like Smithy but I am not sold that Malceski is dead and buried. Too many mates have done their knee and it takes 18mths to be 100% when angling into the play........anyone can go back to straight lines but kicking and angled runs takes more than 12mths

we will know in 117days or a little more ;)

[dimelb]

Nico that was completely from "leftfield" :)

and now for the Dala lama of Left footers..........what a great article

Brett Kirk is a true great | The Daily Telegraph (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/brett-kirk-is-a-true-great/story-e6freyar-1225703262868)
Very good article. I hadn't seen it before.

[Legs Akimbo]

Nico that was completely from "leftfield" :)

and now for the Dala lama of Left footers..........what a great article

Brett Kirk is a true great | The Daily Telegraph (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/brett-kirk-is-a-true-great/story-e6freyar-1225703262868)

OMG - take a look at the cartoon of Kirk. That thing on his back looks like a genetic experiment hybrid of swan and spider. yuck.

[royboy42]

Nico that was completely from "leftfield" :)

and now for the Dala lama of Left footers..........what a great article

Brett Kirk is a true great | The Daily Telegraph (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/brett-kirk-is-a-true-great/story-e6freyar-1225703262868)

Now we need to see the speech she refers to..

[Doctor J.]

Now we need to see the speech she refers to..

Was thinking the same thing myself.

Anyone?

[johnno]

No way known that Nick Smith is going to moved from the backline. He is there to permanantly pick up the oppostions small forward. It would absolutely ridiculous for Roosy or Horse to play him on a wing or half back or half forward. He's there (in the backline) for the long haul and I wouldn't be surprised if he is made captain at some point...big call I know, but I just have a sneaky suspicion.

[liz]

No way known that Nick Smith is going to moved from the backline. He is there to permanantly pick up the oppostions small forward. It would absolutely ridiculous for Roosy or Horse to play him on a wing or half back or half forward.

Not sure why it would be absolutely ridiculous if

a) we have someone better equipped to play on small forwards (ie faster - Smith is reasonably nimble but not express and just because he hasn't yet been shown up by any small forwards doesn't mean it is inconceivable he won't in the future; and/or

b) Smith provides more value playing elsewhere. Specifically, at reserves level he has shown excellent prowess as a true onballer, playing in the centre square as a clearance merchant. He's not yet big enough (maybe not fit enough) to play this role at senior level but it is not inconceivable to believe he will move into this role in the medium term future.

[Primmy]

Was thinking the same thing myself.

Anyone?

Yep, hang on a bit, I kept a typed copy, will try and flupp it to the site.

[Primmy]

Found it. Dated March 2007. Told you I was a tragic.

*I AM handing over the column this week to a young man who I consider to
be one of the finest captains of any sport anywhere in the world.*

The Sydney Swans co-captain Brett Kirk made this speech at the club's
annual guernsey presentation in Sydney last Monday night. He was
welcoming the new draft picks and rookies to the Swans family:

"Swans. Graceful and dignified, their style has inspired artists for
centuries. They travel in large flocks and they trust each other.

Swans are excellent swimmers and strong fliers. They are friendly but
have a passion for the defence of their territory. Swans protect their
family fiercely.

Many indigenous cultures' beliefs are strong on animal symbols. These
symbols are referred to as "totem animals" or "power animals". They are
within you, you share a connection with them. Specific lessons come
through them to you. It is lessons learned, it is guidance, spirituality
and finding your path.

According to Native American tradition, it is not about choosing a
symbol totem animals ? it is more about being chosen.

Congratulations on being chosen to be a member of the Sydney Swans
football team.

Now the hard work begins, so on behalf of my blood brothers, I would
like to let you in on some things about OUR culture.

The Sydney Swans culture is the accumulation of many individuals
including the players, the coaches, the fitness staff, the
administration, the medical team, the trainers, the IT teams, the board,
our fans and supporters and the people that run the water on match day.

Our football club is a professional community and we have developed a
consensus about what is important. It's about the group's expectations,
not just an individual's expectations.

It's the way everyone goes about their business.

The Sydney Swans culture is never beyond your control. YOU choose to
help define it. You have to live it, believe it, participate and make it
internalised. At the Swans, we have established a secret society, a
group who are continuously communicating a clear and compelling rationale.

This secret society works to create and maintain a footballing
environment marked by loyalty, trust, accountability and open
communication. Players are inspired to work hard, produce their best
always and play their part.



We have moulded a club with high expectations.



The expectations are clear so every player knows what it required of
them. There is no place for mediocrity and no room for passengers. Egos
should be left at the door, or dig a hole and bury them. There are no
egos at the Sydney Swans Football Club.

Honesty is a major vertebra that makes up our backbone. Work to be
respected ? it is more important to be respected than liked. At the
Swans we want a group of respected footballers, where peers look upon us
as role models ? and when they look they find strong examples of what is
expected at OUR club and on the football field.

Remember, respect is not a right. Nor can it be demanded. It has to be
earned. It is challenging and hard-hitting at times, but it works.

AFL is a hard gig but it's a fortunate life. You have been given an
opportunity of a lifetime. There are thousands of people out there who
would love to be where you are right now.

Ability is what you're capable of doing, motivation determines what you
do and attitude determines how well you do it.

You will experience ups, downs, challenges, speed bumps, success,
sacrifice and adversity along the way but in our culture, here in our
family, we will stand beside you and support you in any way we can.



I am not going to make any pie-crust promises or fantastic predictions
that this year we will drink from the holy grail again ? but come
Saturday I can guarantee you this.

A disciplined team will take the field and we will compete in a hard
contested brand of footy where everyone knows their roles and carries it
out for the good of the team. There will be self-belief and trust and
EVERYONE is accountable. We will acknowledge our fans and sing our song
loud and proud.

Cheer, cheer, the red and the white."

That is a speech which could quite justifiably be made in any sports
arena in the world and be met with an ovation similar to the one Brett
Kirk received at the annual presentation dinner.



Brett Kirk
Inspirational ... Sydney Swans AFL co-captain Brett Kirk on the rocks
near Maroubra Beach in Sydney. / The Daily Telegraph

[johnno]

Not sure why it would be absolutely ridiculous if

a) we have someone better equipped to play on small forwards (ie faster - Smith is reasonably nimble but not express and just because he hasn't yet been shown up by any small forwards doesn't mean it is inconceivable he won't in the future; and/or

b) Smith provides more value playing elsewhere. Specifically, at reserves level he has shown excellent prowess as a true onballer, playing in the centre square as a clearance merchant. He's not yet big enough (maybe not fit enough) to play this role at senior level but it is not inconceivable to believe he will move into this role in the medium term future.

Being in Melbourne I have never got to see the ressies play, I can only go by from what I have seen. So far he is playing the small defensive role and is playing it very very well. The way we have drafted, we have an abundance of players/kids that we could rotate through the midfield. Finding a specialist small defender is a difficult thing to do, especially one who has excelled in the position as N.Smith has done thus far. All I'm really trying to say is...if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Thanks Primmy............:frown i promise I didnt shed a tear !!

Thanks Liz for leaving it up there........

[liz]

Being in Melbourne I have never got to see the ressies play, I can only go by from what I have seen. So far he is playing the small defensive role and is playing it very very well. The way we have drafted, we have an abundance of players/kids that we could rotate through the midfield. Finding a specialist small defender is a difficult thing to do, especially one who has excelled in the position as N.Smith has done thus far. All I'm really trying to say is...if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

You don't need to have seen a player in the reserves to realise that very few players' careers are defined, position wise, by where they played in their first dozen or so senior games. Kirk, Goodes, McVeigh and O'Keefe are arguably 4 of our current best 5 players. All have significantly evolved in the roles they play since they debuted. Then throw in the player who probably makes up the 5th of that "best quintet", Craig Bolton. Even though he arrived at the club with a couple of seasons already under his belt, his role within the Swans set-up hasn't been a constant.

I'm not disagreeing with you on what Smith has done thus far - he has played that role commendably. But it is a long stretch from there to claim that it is ridiculous to contemplate his role might change at some point in the fuiture.

[Reggi]

Craig Bolton. Even though he arrived at the club with a couple of seasons already under his belt, his role within the Swans set-up hasn't been a constant.

.

Drafted to Brisbane as a half-forward

[johnno]

You don't need to have seen a player in the reserves to realise that very few players' careers are defined, position wise, by where they played in their first dozen or so senior games. Kirk, Goodes, McVeigh and O'Keefe are arguably 4 of our current best 5 players. All have significantly evolved in the roles they play since they debuted. Then throw in the player who probably makes up the 5th of that "best quintet", Craig Bolton. Even though he arrived at the club with a couple of seasons already under his belt, his role within the Swans set-up hasn't been a constant.

I'm not disagreeing with you on what Smith has done thus far - he has played that role commendably. But it is a long stretch from there to claim that it is ridiculous to contemplate his role might change at some point in the fuiture.

Kirk and Mcveigh have played the same role since beginning at the club, they've just matured as players as time has gone by and have become better players. Although I'm still not sure if McVeigh can shake a strong tag. Goodes and O'Keefe are different as they are class players who can play a variety of roles, there aren't many players in the AFL who can do this.

On your argument that a player could improve by playing him in different positions, or its best to play him in different positions to see where/what he is good at and where/what he is not good at, sure this might be ok to experiment, but it is also possible to ruin a players career by playing him out of his best position. For eg, I personally believe that Saddington's footy career was ruined by swans/blues coaches playing him OUT of his natural position. This guy started of as a winger, and a darn good one at that, then coaches started using him as a key position backman, just because he had a little height, playing on players like Carey, Rocca, Treadrea etc etc, and basically getting his arse handed to him week in week out playing against these guys, thus ruining a potentially magnificent career as a en elite wingman, the position he first began.

Sure, maybe Smith might be a good onballer, half forward flanker, goal sneak, whatever, but so far he has taken on the role of playing on the oppositions small forward and has done it well, he seems(to me) to be a natural playing this role. I just think(and this is my opinion) it would be silly to take him out of this position, especially if we dont have a ready made replacement.

[rojo]

Kirk and Mcveigh have played the same role since beginning at the club, they've just matured as players as time has gone by and have become better players. Although I'm still not sure if McVeigh can shake a strong tag. Goodes and O'Keefe are different as they are class players who can play a variety of roles, there aren't many players in the AFL who can do this.

On your argument that a player could improve by playing him in different positions, or its best to play him in different positions to see where/what he is good at and where/what he is not good at, sure this might be ok to experiment, but it is also possible to ruin a players career by playing him out of his best position. For eg, I personally believe that Saddington's footy career was ruined by swans/blues coaches playing him OUT of his natural position. This guy started of as a winger, and a darn good one at that, then coaches started using him as a key position backman, just because he had a little height, playing on players like Carey, Rocca, Treadrea etc etc, and basically getting his arse handed to him week in week out playing against these guys, thus ruining a potentially magnificent career as a en elite wingman, the position he first began.

Sure, maybe Smith might be a good onballer, half forward flanker, goal sneak, whatever, but so far he has taken on the role of playing on the oppositions small forward and has done it well, he seems(to me) to be a natural playing this role. I just think(and this is my opinion) it would be silly to take him out of this position, especially if we dont have a ready made replacement.

I agree with your thoughts on Saddington. And the same thing worries me a bit about Ed B.. He has been played in various roles and often, mostly, doesn't seem to know what he is doing. He may be one of those who needs to be allowed to gain confidence in one position, but he may not get the opportunity because of the needs of the team.

[liz]

Kirk and Mcveigh have played the same role since beginning at the club, they've just matured as players as time has gone by and have become better players.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on whether Kirk and McVeigh's roles have changed since they debuted. My view is that they have substantially changed. Eg - Did either spend even a smidgeon of time in at centre bounces during their first seasons?

[johnno]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on whether Kirk and McVeigh's roles have changed since they debuted. My view is that they have substantially changed. Eg - Did either spend even a smidgeon of time in at centre bounces during their first seasons?

I believe Kirk did, primarily as tagger who managed to not only shut down his direct opponent, but what set him apart form most taggers is that he got a hell of a lot of the ball himself. I remember those games very well.

Mcveigh, probably not. Sorry, what I should have said is that he started off as a midfielder, whether that be contesting centre bounces or not, I dont know, I'm sure at some point though, even early in his career he would have been thrown in to contest the centre bounce, just as part of the rotation that every club employs nowadays.

I use the term 'midfielder' in a very vague and general tone for this argument. I know there are different types of midfielders, but in my opinion, a midfielder is a midfielder, a defender is a defender and a forward is a forward. As I said earlier, we could throw N.Smith on the ball or down forward and we might unearth a gem, but what I like to believe is that we already have a gem of a small defender here, why would we want to ruin it?

[liz]

I believe Kirk did, primarily as tagger who managed to not only shut down his direct opponent, but what set him apart form most taggers is that he got a hell of a lot of the ball himself. I remember those games very well.




Back in 1999? My recollection is him playing as a bit part player, primarily off the bench and mostly as a HFF type. It was Roos who reinvented him as a centre square tagger in 2003, and for 2003 that was pretty much all he was. Since then he has substantially increased the amount of ball he won.

[Plugger46]

Back in 1999? My recollection is him playing as a bit part player, primarily off the bench and mostly as a HFF type. It was Roos who reinvented him as a centre square tagger in 2003, and for 2003 that was pretty much all he was. Since then he has substantially increased the amount of ball he won.

Yep, that's my recollection too. I vividly remember him playing on a HFF and being our only decent player (particularly after half time) in the 2001 EF against the Hawks.

[Mr Magoo]

Its all horses for courses. Most midfielders are bought to the club as midfielders but even then many start out in one of two ways . They either start on a flank or a pocket and then evolve into the midfield as there fitness level and ability to read the game increases with time or they start in the midfield but with limited game time. There is no magic formula in this regard but it would be silly to pigeonhole Smith without even giving him the chance to play a position that he has handled quite proficiently at reserves level.

With taller guys like Barlow there is often a fair bit more experimentation as to what is the ideal position as there is a feeling that their is a longer maturity process and that eventually they may grow into a key position role. Look at Goodes, logically he should have been a key position CHF or CHB but early on he just couldnt handle those roles and in fact himself looked like he might become one of those wasted talents but the change to the ruck rover type role was his making and now due to maturity he easily holds down a CHF type role.

It really is up to the player to put their hand up and adapt to the role given or to make the most of any opportunity given. Barlow hasnt exactly been thrust into a key position yet so its hard to say he has been compromised like Saddington was but maybe a key position is exactly what he needs.

[caj23]

Barlow hasnt exactly been thrust into a key position yet so its hard to say he has been compromised like Saddington was but maybe a key position is exactly what he needs.

I would like to have seen him used at Full Forward but with White and Bradshaw that role is probably gone. Maybe Full Back in 2010 (given that LRT can't be trusted that close to goal!)?

[johnno]

Back in 1999? My recollection is him playing as a bit part player, primarily off the bench and mostly as a HFF type. It was Roos who reinvented him as a centre square tagger in 2003, and for 2003 that was pretty much all he was. Since then he has substantially increased the amount of ball he won.

Yep, you've got me there Liz, I cant remember much of Kirk in 1999, only from 2003 onwards. If I recall, he didnt play to many games before being called up again in 2003. Anyway, as you said before, we're going to have to agree to disagree here, I say keep Smith where he is, you say lets move him around and see what else he can offer us, as long as the swans keep on winning, thats all I'm worried about. :D

[liz]

Yep, you've got me there Liz, I cant remember much of Kirk in 1999, only from 2003 onwards. If I recall, he didnt play to many games before being called up again in 2003. Anyway, as you said before, we're going to have to agree to disagree here, I say keep Smith where he is, you say lets move him around and see what else he can offer us, as long as the swans keep on winning, thats all I'm worried about. :D


By the middle of 2002, when the Roos era began, Kirk had played 41 career games (give or take one or two if I can't count properly) and was 25 years of age. Although he's always been relatively slim compared to most mature AFL players, he would have been significantly stronger and fitter than a 21 year old Nick Smith with barely a dozen games experience to his name.

I'm not suggesting moving him around for the sake of moving him around. But if he ever gets strong enough and fit enough to translate the ability he's shown at a lower level to read the ball off the hands of a ruckman, navigate through traffic and get quality disposal away from stoppages he will be worth far more than as a medium paced, medium sized back pocket player.

[Auntie.Gerald]

in the chess part of the game ie switching match ups etc on the fly Barlow will be handy due to height and mobility but agree with everyone he takes a little long to kick

maybe that is because he cant see 100m ie the leading player in the forward line will be 100m away from him when they start their lead.......... to hit his mark at 60 to 70m :D :hmmm :hmmm