Melbourne Storm Salary Cap Breach. What would it do to the Swans.

[scolsey22]

I am sure everyone on here is aware what has happened with the Melbourne storm and their salary cap breach and subsequent loss of their premierships. I now pose a question to swans fans, that being in a situation similar to the storm, in that we are the lone team in a state dominated by another game. If an incident like this, although highly unlikely happened to the swans and we were docked premiership points for the rest of the year. What effect would this have on AFL in NSW and the Sydney Swans Football Club.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Dead

[Matty10]

Bloody hell. That actually was the first that I had heard of it - I don't follow League at all. How does that affect the history of the game if they are stripped of premierships?

The AFL is somewhat different in how they have handled this sort of stuff in the past, as it has all being forward pointing, fines, loss of draft picks etc. I would hate for the league to do something that changed the way the history of the sport occurred.

[Cheer Squad]

If an incident like this...although highly unlikely happened to the swans What effect would this have on AFL in NSW and the Sydney Swans Football Club.

It would kill the club and the code in Sydney.

[cruiser]

I am sure everyone on here is aware what has happened with the Melbourne storm and their salary cap breach and subsequent loss of their premierships. I now pose a question to swans fans, that being in a situation similar to the storm, in that we are the lone team in a state dominated by another game. If an incident like this, although highly unlikely happened to the swans and we were docked premiership points for the rest of the year. What effect would this have on AFL in NSW and the Sydney Swans Football Club. Not gonna happen and doesnt bare thinking about. I would be shattered.

[Bas]

Won't be a problem. There's no need to fear, GSW will be here!!!!

Wasn't Waldron in charge of the Saints before swapping codes? He seems to be the one they are putting out to hang.

I wonder if the AFL have a quiet look at the Saints books during his time there just in case.

[Robbo]

I knew there had to be something fishy going on. I don't follow the NRL closely but over the last few years the Storm have been so powerful and have so many internationals and origin players representing them. Found it hard to believe that could happen in a comp with a salary cap. Sucked in I say.

[hot potato]

This is a massive blow to their code, I don't see how the Storm can survive, repay $1.6 mill, players in on it, how can they be taken seriously again. Wouldn't like it happening to any team, what a disgrace.

HP

[Primmy]

I knew there had to be something fishy going on. I don't follow the NRL closely but over the last few years the Storm have been so powerful and have so many internationals and origin players representing them. Found it hard to believe that could happen in a comp with a salary cap. Sucked in I say.

You just know don't you, when the cheques and balances just don't add up; even I knew something was not quite right, or they were the luckiest club in the universe. But, well, they could have BEEN the luckiest club so who was I to judge.

If it was the Swans, I would do what the Storm fan did. bundle up all things Swans and drive into the club and dump it in rubbish bags at the front door. Oh dear, what an awful thought. I would be gutted, betrayed, and yes, I would take it personally.

Its like the baseball game in the early 1900's in the USA when they ended up banning the whole team for match fixing, guilty and innocent alike.

[goswannie14]

I knew there had to be something fishy going on. I don't follow the NRL closely but over the last few years the Storm have been so powerful and have so many internationals and origin players representing them. Found it hard to believe that could happen in a comp with a salary cap. Sucked in I say.What about Geelong? They could be seen as being exactly the same.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Lol

Seriously though, don't feel for the club but this must be the biggest nightmare for their supporters. Pretty disgusting by the Storm.

[Cardinal]

I it was the Swan's we would have been in four grand finals in a row and won an extra flag - and I'd be about $5 grand richer.

[DST]

The Storm were going to struggle to survive with News Ltd to pull the pin on the $6 million a year they chip in.

Today's announcement effectively signs their death warrant, as they will now lose most of their better players and there is no doubt the coach Bellamy will walk as well as this has ruined his reputation as one of NRL's greatest coaches.

The final death knell will be the major sponsors in ME bank and HOSTPLUS pulling the pin sometime in the next 48 hours.

Sad, but you can't expect to survive when pulling a massive swifty like that.

DST

[Reggi]

Already happened and we were fined

[goswannie14]

The Storm were going to struggle to survive with News Ltd to pull the pin on the $6 million a year they chip in.

Today's announcement effectively signs their death warrant, as they will now lose most of their better players and there is no doubt the coach Bellamy will walk as well as this has ruined his reputation as one of NRL's greatest coaches.

The final death knell will be the major sponsors in ME bank and HOSTPLUS pulling the pin sometime in the next 48 hours.

Sad, but you can't expect to survive when pulling a massive swifty like that.

DST
Carlton did.

BTW News Limited don't sponsor them, they own them.

[Damien]

The Storm were going to struggle to survive with News Ltd to pull the pin on the $6 million a year they chip in.

Today's announcement effectively signs their death warrant, as they will now lose most of their better players and there is no doubt the coach Bellamy will walk as well as this has ruined his reputation as one of NRL's greatest coaches.

The final death knell will be the major sponsors in ME bank and HOSTPLUS pulling the pin sometime in the next 48 hours.

Sad, but you can't expect to survive when pulling a massive swifty like that.

DST

Yeah they are in serious trouble and News Ltd were very keen to sell the Storm off this year and stop propping them up (part of the deal towards removing their 50% ownership of the NRL)

However, John Hartigan (News CEO) suggested today that News Ltd want to support them back to being a "great club", which may suggest they will either stay on as owner until all is sorted OR create a new ownership structure and give the Club a golden handshake.

They are in an extremely weak position though if News does decide to pull the plug, despite all their succcess they still needed 6 million from News each year to survive, what the hell will happen without News Ltd and no doubt, a lack of success from now on?? It's massive for the NRL south of the border.

Carlton had so much support from fans/corporates, didn't lose premierships or comp points, it just made it harder to rebuild quickly due to the Draft Pick situation. Canterbury likewise had a lot of support and were able to recover quickly. Both clubs had a much stronger base than the Storm.

[SwansFan1972]

It would be put up the shutters and blow out of town time. 25 plus years of hard slog down the drain.

As a fan, it would destroy every positive memory of your club's finest moments. Imagine being stripped of the 2005 flag! It is inconceivable and a complete tragedy for all the innocent parties involved. For those in the know, they should be barred from any involvement in the code for life.

Will be interesting to see how long Waldron remains at the helm of the new Melbourne Rugby franchise "The Rebels" (that was his current job, presumably until today)! One would hope he has dignity enough to resign and disappear into a very deep, very dark hole somewhere.

And this also serves as a stern reminder that tattoos celebrating a sporting victory are a really bad idea! Just buy the replica cup and take a few pics on grand final day - they can be dumped in bins or hidden in a cupboard if the worst happens! ;)

[Damien]

It would be put up the shutters and blow out of town time. 25 plus years of hard slog down the drain.

As a fan, it would destroy every positive memory of your club's finest moments. Imagine being stripped of the 2005 flag! It is inconceivable and a complete tragedy for all the innocent parties involved. For those in the know, they should be barred from any involvement in the code for life.

Will be interesting to see how long Waldron remains at the helm of the new Melbourne Rugby franchise "The Rebels" (that was his current job, presumably until today)! One would hope he has dignity enough to resign and disappear into a very deep, very dark hole somewhere.

And this also serves as a stern reminder that tattoos celebrating a sporting victory are a really bad idea! Just buy the replica cup and take a few pics on grand final day - they can be dumped in bins or hidden in a cupboard if the worst happens! ;)

Don't get me wrong here, losing the 2005 Flag would kill me and I'd probably live in denial forever, but I think the real killer here for the Storm recovering is the fact that they have to play for 4/5 months for nothing. It HAS to kill your club doesn't it? I can't imagine anything worse in terms of following your footy team, I can't imagine anyone who isn't a real hardcore fan bothering to turning up.

By the time 2011 comes around, will they bother jumping on board again? I just can't see them recovering from having to play dead rubber after dead rubber.

[Triple B]

I just can't see them recovering from having to play dead rubber after dead rubber.

Richmond seem to be surviving through it.

[ash3]

If it happened to Sydney, it would be the end of us.

I hope its the end of the Storm, pack that crap up and send it back to Sydney. Its not wanted here.

[DST]

Don't get me wrong here, losing the 2005 Flag would kill me and I'd probably live in denial forever, but I think the real killer here for the Storm recovering is the fact that they have to play for 4/5 months for nothing. It HAS to kill your club doesn't it? I can't imagine anything worse in terms of following your footy team, I can't imagine anyone who isn't a real hardcore fan bothering to turning up.

By the time 2011 comes around, will they bother jumping on board again? I just can't see them recovering from having to play dead rubber after dead rubber.

That's if they play another game.

With the fines to pay, sponsors terminating and News Ltd potentially walking away and stopping the cash supply right now they could be in liquidation within weeks.

DST

[hot potato]

Very soft examination of it all on their Footy Show. Fatty and Gould just floundering. Guess they haven't had time to take it in.

Remaining 20 Storm games a complete non-contest, if they go ahead.

HP

[DeadlyAkkuret]

If it happened to Sydney, it would be the end of us.

I hope its the end of the Storm, pack that crap up and send it back to Sydney. Its not wanted here.

It was, but not anymore. The Storm had a pretty strong supporter base.

[SwansFan1972]

Don't get me wrong here, losing the 2005 Flag would kill me and I'd probably live in denial forever, but I think the real killer here for the Storm recovering is the fact that they have to play for 4/5 months for nothing. It HAS to kill your club doesn't it? I can't imagine anything worse in terms of following your footy team, I can't imagine anyone who isn't a real hardcore fan bothering to turning up.

By the time 2011 comes around, will they bother jumping on board again? I just can't see them recovering from having to play dead rubber after dead rubber.

Agreed. The timing is dreadful (any time would be I guess) but this early in a season it is just horrific. It upsets the competition - the NRL also has an uneven draw, so some teams were drawn to play the Storm twice (presumably these games will be mostly walkovers whether they take place or not - certainly playing for pride will carry them for one or two weeks at best). Results, gate receipts, TV, fans - all are immeasurably affected.

When the NRL took action against the Bulldogs in 2002, it was two or three weeks out from the finals, and the Dogs hadn't actually won anything via their deceit, so the ramifications were far more isolated to that club. The current situation compares like 9.0 earthquake versus a relative tremor in 2002 (even though it seemed to be the end of the world to many back then). Also, the history of the game is trashed, Parramatta and Manly are tormented by what might have been and the stain of cheating forever now hangs over the 2007 and 2009 seasons.

One can only hope that those responsible are punished heavily for what they have done.

[ash3]

It was, but not anymore. The Storm had a pretty strong supporter base.

I'd hardly call an average crowd of 14,000 people a strong base when the AFL can pull double that to a bottom of the ladder battle!

[DeadlyAkkuret]

You're comparing the support of an NRL team to AFL teams in Victoria?

[T-bag]

Won't be a problem. There's no need to fear, GSW will be here!!!!

Wasn't Waldron in charge of the Saints before swapping codes? He seems to be the one they are putting out to hang.

I wonder if the AFL have a quiet look at the Saints books during his time there just in case.

Why would you bother, they haven't won anything

[Primmy]

Very soft examination of it all on their Footy Show. Fatty and Gould just floundering. Guess they haven't had time to take it in.

Remaining 20 Storm games a complete non-contest, if they go ahead.

HP
Not surprised at Fatty, never the best at laser style investigative journalism. Gould, well, not enough time to absorb whowhatwhenwhy!

[caj23]

Won't defend Storm's actions but the penalties seem way over the top, doubt a Sydney team would have received the same.

If NRL wants a national competition they've just shot themselves in the foot because I can't see the Storm surviving these penalties

[giant]

Not surprised at Fatty, never the best at laser style investigative journalism. Gould, well, not enough time to absorb whowhatwhenwhy!

Gould has a surprisingly good column in today's SMH.

[goswannie14]

I hope its the end of the Storm, pack that crap up and send it back to Sydney. Its not wanted here.Just because you don't want it doesn't mean that is the general consensus. On the other hand, there are many people who say the same thing about Aussie Rules in Sydney. That being the case, the Swans should pack up and come back to Melbourne? Or does the argument you have put only work when it fits your parameters?

[mocaholic]

Good comments generally - although esp kudos to the "richmond" comment. Quality.

My thoughts immediately went to the impact on Sydney, given in a lot of ways they mirror the Storm. Think about it - sustained success, great and well-stated emphasis to remain successful without bottoming out, single team in a code-unfriendly state, keeping their players, 'remote' salary cap adjustments, additional rookies, etc.

I was also thinking that I couldn't believe that in all that time there wasn't a whistle-blower, however i hear that in the end it was somebody who left the organisation tipped off the auditors. (Sheesh - imagine getting found out by auditors. That'd be a first...)

I know I'd be gutted. Devastated. Not only to lose the flag(s), but at the cold-bloodedness and the systemic approach. Dunno what I'd do, but ditching everything Sydney Swans would be certainly on the cards. Mark Fine last night said that his young son was an absolute fan - not even an AFL fan - and that he didn't know how he was going to tell him. For the first time ever I felt sorry for him (I reckon he's a notorious Swans hater) as in the reverse position I don't know how I'd tell my kids that our team are a pack of cheats. My heart goes out to the fans.

You'd have to think, realistically, that the blokes who were getting overpaid, plus some of the mid-range players - and the coach - knew. How deep it went probably won't ever get told. It's going to be like Howard and the children overboard: "I was never officially advised".

Wouldn't surprise me if they wound up the organisation and started anew. NRL need a Melbourne team, but you'd think with all the poo on the Storm (and the minimal chances to get decent sponsorship) they would almost give it up as a lost cause. Geez, it's going to be like a feeding frenzy though of players at the end of the year...

Apparently AFL are gonna have a quiet look at the Saints books C2002-2004.

[goswannie14]

I'd hardly call an average crowd of 14,000 people a strong base when the AFL can pull double that to a bottom of the ladder battle!That would be way above average for an NRL game.

[AnnieH]

If it happened to us, I'd slit my wrists.

I can't imagine how the fans must be feeling. No one seems to care about them.

[Big Al]

Won't defend Storm's actions but the penalties seem way over the top, doubt a Sydney team would have received the same.
If NRL wants a national competition they've just shot themselves in the foot because I can't see the Storm surviving these penalties

With due respect Will, this is crap. Remember the Bulldogs in 2002.

The extraordinary level of cheating by the Storm left the NRL with very little option to do what they did. If you saw the ashen look on Gallops face yesterday you would realise that he knew the ramifications of what the NRL was doing but had little choice due to the Storms deceit.

[SwansFan1972]

Gould has a surprisingly good column in today's SMH.

My biggest issue with Gould is his tipping the bucket on the NRL management for not cottoning on to the rorts earlier. If he had an idea as to how they were meant to do that in the face of willful deceit from a (formerly) respected club CEO, he would be the world's most highly sought after audit consultant and wouldn't need to be spruiking on the footy show!

As is bleeding obvious, (both with the current Storm situation and the wider corporate world) the only way these shenanigans ever come to light is via a "disgruntled worker" blowing the whistle. The perpetrators of these events are hardly going to leave a highly visible and easy to find trail are they!

If what Gould asserts about the cap (i.e. it is so low, everyone has to find ways around it), is accurate, then clearly some work needs to be done on reforming it. Some sort of cap must be retained, otherwise the comp risks turning into an EPL - only three or four mega rich clubs ever have a realistic chance of winning while the other 17 or so play each season just to stick around and to avoid relegation. How that arrangement continues to captivate the poms escapes me, but I digress! :)

Surely among all the NRL's administrators they can come up with a more satisfactory cap arrangement. There are already some simple ideas currently in place elsewhere - such as discounting a couple of long serving player salaries (as does the AFL with veteran status) that would surely help. Or third party agreements need to be restricted only to a club's identified top three 'marquee' players, but can be for any amount up to a set limit (say $250k per marquee player). The possibilities are pretty much endless, but something - anything - to avoid this situation happening ever again is a must.

[Molly dooker]

I just can't imagine what the state of mind or play is going to be for the players? What are they playing for? Certainly not dignity even if this entire s... fight is not their fault, deep down they must have known something, but then again I am giving League players the benefit of actually having a few brain cells, there are a couple of exceptions but rare, what would your brain be like if you tackled a fridge a hundred times a day?
Do the players play hard for some semblence of respect and risk a big injury? What would you do?
I just can't imagine.

[Big Al]

My biggest issue with Gould is his tipping the bucket on the NRL management for not cottoning on to the rorts earlier. If he had an idea as to how they were meant to do that in the face of willful deceit from a (formerly) respected club CEO, he would be the world's most highly sought after audit consultant and wouldn't need to be spruiking on the footy show!

As is bleeding obvious, (both with the current Storm situation and the wider corporate world) the only way these shenanigans ever come to light is via a "disgruntled worker" blowing the whistle. The perpetrators of these events are hardly going to leave a highly visible and easy to find trail are they!

If what Gould asserts about the cap (i.e. it is so low, everyone has to find ways around it), is accurate, then clearly some work needs to be done on reforming it. Some sort of cap must be retained, otherwise the comp risks turning into an EPL - only three or four mega rich clubs ever have a realistic chance of winning while the other 17 or so play each season just to stick around and to avoid relegation. How that arrangement continues to captivate the poms escapes me, but I digress! :)

Surely among all the NRL's administrators they can come up with a more satisfactory cap arrangement. There are already some simple ideas currently in place elsewhere - such as discounting a couple of long serving player salaries (as does the AFL with veteran status) that would surely help. Or third party agreements need to be restricted only to a club's identified top three 'marquee' players, but can be for any amount up to a set limit (say $250k per marquee player). The possibilities are pretty much endless, but something - anything - to avoid this situation happening ever again is a must.

Great post!!! Couldn't agree more.

[SwansFan1972]

I can't imagine how the fans must be feeling. No one seems to care about them.

Not so sure there Annie. I think this has made all of us, across all sporting codes, think for a minute "what if that was my club"? And the answer is that it would be horrible beyond belief.

Only the very malicious and small of spirit (and perhaps the fans of the defeated grand finallists in 2007 and 2009) are feeling anything other than sadness and sympathy for the Storm's fans.

The NRL was left with no option but to make an example of the Storm ... pain and misery was to follow whatever they decided to do, and I am sure they are very very concerned for the fans.

[aardvark]

Its a bit of an irony that Storm share Princes Park with Caaaarlton. Wonder if they use the same accountants???

[Matty10]

I don't recall Carlton fans giving up on their team en masse when they were declared to have breached the cap. In fact (from my recollection) most just got indignant that the penalty was so harsh - and blamed Elliot - not the club.

[aardvark]

This is true. If you support a club you should stick with them through all the highs and the lows. It will be interesting to see how many TRUE supporters Storm really have or if they are all fly by nighters attracted by their success.

[SwansFan1972]

I don't recall Carlton fans giving up on their team en masse when they were declared to have breached the cap. In fact (from my recollection) most just got indignant that the penalty was so harsh - and blamed Elliot - not the club.

I think it will be much the same for the Storm. Big difference is the scale of punishment though - the Blues even had a silver lining to theirs in bottoming out and picking the eyes out of three drafts. With no draft in the NRL, the Storm get absolutely zilch for coming last, and have to endure a season of playing for nothing - which is surely unprecedented.

There has to be a very real question on whether there will be a club for the fans to stick to!

[Go Swannies]

Its a bit of an irony that Storm share Princes Park with Caaaarlton. Wonder if they use the same accountants???

CEO was Saints. CFO is at Norths, I read!

[mocaholic]

Surely among all the NRL's administrators they can come up with a more satisfactory cap arrangement. There are already some simple ideas currently in place elsewhere - such as discounting a couple of long serving player salaries (as does the AFL with veteran status) that would surely help. Or third party agreements need to be restricted only to a club's identified top three 'marquee' players, but can be for any amount up to a set limit (say $250k per marquee player). The possibilities are pretty much endless, but something - anything - to avoid this situation happening ever again is a must.
Honestly, I reckon that's got nothing to do with it. It's all relative, isn't it? It wouldn't matter what the cap was, the fact is that they deliberately set about defrauding it to retain the players on the list. If they're going to play with the S/C, make some adjustments (and those above I think are OK, and you can include the father-son rule) then the same rules will apply to everybody anyway.


This is true. If you support a club you should stick with them through all the highs and the lows. It will be interesting to see how many TRUE supporters Storm really have or if they are all fly by nighters attracted by their success.Interesting. I count myself as a die-hard (35yrs+) swans supporter but if this kind of thing was found to occur I'm not sure whether I could follow them any more. I don't know how much you can push the "my country right or wrong" theory - this is not about your team not doing well, this is about your team cheating to win. And by cheating, I'm talking about the administration, the coach (I suspect, but can't confirm) and the players (again, I suspect, or at least some of them definitely). Given that it's likely that they're all complicit to varying degrees, what is left? Here's where "branding" is shown up to be a hollow corporate ideology only - when you've despoiled the brand and the colours the whole sticky mess lands on the fans who must make their own decisions. Sponsors will use this event to desert to protect their own brand (or, perhaps even sense an opportunity to get a cut-price deal and be seen as taking the high moral ground) but their loyalty is not one of undying, and one-eyed support.

I dips me lid to the fans who will stick to the club. I can understand, and sympathise with, those fans who are so disillusioned with the club (and possibly the whole code) that they leave and go elsewhere.

[Matty10]

I suppose that the difference with the Swans is that you have a long history to look back on and remember fondly - even if for most of their history they were not really that successful. Individual games, players performances, brownlow medalists, the history of community and re-establishment etc. The current players, coaches and administrators can all be replaced and the club would still have a great past to look back on with admiration and respect.

The problem for the Storm is that when you strip them back there really isn't any other history to fall back on.

[Bloods05]

cheques and balances

Love it.

[Damien]

Carlton got to play and accrue points, they just lost draft picks. A lot different to the Storm situation where every game is a dead rubber. It would be so hard for fans to deal with 20 rounds of that.



That would be way above average for an NRL game.

Slightly below average. 17K is the 2010 average for NRL, was 16K plus last year.

[goswannie14]

Carlton got to play and accrue points, they just lost draft picks. A lot different to the Storm situation where every game is a dead rubber. It would be so hard for fans to deal with 20 rounds of that.To say I am extremely pissed off would be an understatement.

[ash3]

Just because you don't want it doesn't mean that is the general consensus. On the other hand, there are many people who say the same thing about Aussie Rules in Sydney. That being the case, the Swans should pack up and come back to Melbourne? Or does the argument you have put only work when it fits your parameters?

By all means bring the swans back to Melbourne and take that crap back up to Sydney.

[smasher]

Maybe the NRL should have given Storm the extra million in the salery cap that we get.(and Brisbane as well).Hindsight is a great thing.

[goswannie14]

Maybe the NRL should have given Storm the extra million in the salery cap that we get.(and Brisbane as well).Hindsight is a great thing.I had thought the same thing, although they wouldn't need anywhere need that much. For the previous 4 seasons the breach totalled $1,000,000.

Interestingly, the Bulldogs were that amount over in 2 seasons and only copped a slap on the wrist compared to the Storm.

[stellation]

I think that Sydney and Brisbane were allowed 115% of the salary cap and it looks lilke the Storm with their breaches would have spent about 110% of the salary cap.

[ROK Lobster]

Pity that the NRL plays for a trophy and not prize like ours. The we could have made jokes about storms in premiershiip cups etc.

From a RWO point of view it would have been so much better if this had have blown up in the off season. We could have merged the thread with a death penalty one.

[goswannie14]

Pity that the NRL plays for a trophy and not prize like ours. The we could have made jokes about storms in premiershiip cups etc.

From a RWO point of view it would have been so much better if this had have blown up in the off season. We could have merged the thread with a death penalty one.What happened to that annual thread this off season???

[Triple B]

What happened to that annual thread this off season???

That's what you get for punting Layby.

He was integral to all the feisty threads.