honesty session for the forumites !!! Have we peaked ?

[Auntie.Gerald]

just looking at our trading strategy and being so keen on Sherman ....almost desperate.......and after Spida Jnr etc !...........willing to give away spot 21..........

are we hanging on.........was kirky and Roos leaving a major factor in us striving and coming 5th and not 9th ????........or are we at a plateau for 2010 / 11.......ie 5th place in 2010 may be hard to beat but we may go close to same again?..........and 2012 will definitely have a few senior players moving out or on the way down from their peak abilities.....

Braddy is week to week with that knee....its a mystery or frankly it is now at the point of suffering a degenerative knee condition.........Kirky retired 2010.........Goodes, Kennelly, Shaw, B2, Jude and Rok, Mattner, etc have peaked and are very good players but are not on the up swing of becoming even better.....like Jack, Smithy, Pyke, Grundy, McVeigh etc

TDL, Mumford, Seaby,Kennedy, McGlynn, Hannes, Jetts, Rohan etc have transitioned very well...which is a HUGE positive and brilliant recruiting to maintain consistent fighting top 8 team for 2011, 2012 and if we got Sherman as well as Everitt this appears to be a strategy to not rebuild but to maintain short term top5 ability rather then border line top 8....


opinions ?

:cool:

[Roscoe]

Our trading last year was brilliant. our recruiting from the draft was top notch as well

We are still paying the penalty for some drafting failures of the past few years

Willoughby/Dan O'keefe/Laidlaw/Brabazon/Thornton/erickson etc but all clubs have them

Schmidt was not good value either - at least we appear to have got something from Vespremi

A few rough diamonds have come good such as rookies like Smith and Reggie Underpants

So far this period we have done OK - the Everitt deal is OK

We have laid our cards on the table for Sherman

Currie/Bevan/Barlow/O'Dwyer - who knows

during trading you have to give a little to get a little - except with that jerk Pelchen from poo and wee

As for the future - we are in a state of flux, our list isnt too bad and lets ensure those close to

retirement don't go on for 1 season too long like the crows

hopefully we draft well like last year -Rohan/TDL/Jetta/Reid all played seniors

I still have high hopes for Lewis Johnston/Heath/Meredith and some other cignets

Swans for the top 8 will be great in 2011

[SCGonasunnyday]

Things look very positive with our young guns and the great depth evidenced by the difficulty of putting a best 22 together.

Can we win a premiership in the next 3 years, 5 years, 8 years? Maybe, but it is more likely that we won't than that we will. 18 teams, you get a window of a handful of years where you are at the peak and chances are you suffer injuries or another team is above and beyond better than anyone else. Port Adelaide, Sydney, West Coast, Hawthorn all won 1 premiership this decade, for all of them it could easily have been zero premierships. Luck, injuries, coaching all play a part. But to even be in the running you need some great players and great recruiting and list management.

With their draft picks and concessions GC and GWS would have to really blow a sandshoe to not win premierships in their first 5-8 years in the comp.

I think Hannebery, Bird, Rohan, Jetta, Smith, McVeigh, Mumford, Kennedy, McGlynn, TDL are 10 players that can form a nucleus of a great team once Goodes, O'Keefe, Bolton etc have retired. Whether it will be a premiership list depends a lot on the identity of 12 other guys to round out the team.

[Roscoe]

good assessment SCG

the players who can help us are the ones who can look like tarzan , but play like jane (searby/white)

Those who have promise - but need to stand up Moore and a few others

Those looking at the end of their career - Mattner/Shaw/Mal etc

All the names mentioned by all posters are good players - on any given day we can match it with the best

[mcs]

No way have we peaked. Granted there are areas we have to fill, improvement to be made, but the great progress of a lot of young guys this year shows me that they will only get better. Most importantly we have a real quality nucleus of young guys coming through, and now its a matter of recruiting to fill the gaps and replace the gaps when older guys retire etc. We are on the right track and I can't wait for 2011 as I think we can only get better.

[goswannies]

Can we win a premiership in the next 3 years, 5 years, 8 years? Maybe, but it is more likely that we won't than that we will. 18 teams, you get a window of a handful of years where you are at the peak and chances are you suffer injuries or another team is above and beyond better than anyone else. Port Adelaide, Sydney, West Coast, Hawthorn all won 1 premiership this decade, for all of them it could easily have been zero premierships.

As magnificent as 2005 was, we mustn't forget we won 1 premiership in 77 years. And in the 85 years between our second and fourth premierships we only won only one - and that included two periods where we went on massive recruiting splurges (the Foreign Lesgion of the 1930s and the Doc's of the mid 80s) to recruit some of the best players available at the times. Premierships are never a given. If not for Leo (and even Nick Davis) we might still be waiting.

[MrPresident]

Have we peaked? Not at all. Look at what got us 5th this year. We didn't do it on the back of those veterans you mentioned who are closer to the end of their careers than the beginning. Many of them were injured for extended periods, Goodes' form came and went. We achieved success on the back of guys like Jack, Kennedy, Hannebery, Mcglynn and others. Young players who will only get better. Jetta has only scratched the surface of what he can do for us, huge potential. Same can be said for Rohan and Johnston and many more. And I'm very excited about Tom Mitchell, he's not even on the team yet.

The core of our midfield that i mentioned is very young and very talented. Jack (23), Kennedy (22), Hannebery (19), Mcglynn (25) are building what I think can be the best midfield in the league. They're close together in age and all are or will be stars. You know what our midfield situation reminds me of? Brisbane (00-02) and Geelong (07-10).

If we got to 5th because of players on their last legs having one last spurt of glory before winding down, then I'd be worried. If that was the case there'd be an argument that we took 1 step forward before taking 2 steps back. But we got there on up and coming players who will only get better. Our future is bright. Let's aim for the top 4 in 2011, and for premierships from 2012 onwards.

[Gezball]

I often feel like our list management is all about staying in touch with the top 8 and not sliding down the ladder rather than trying to win a premiership.

[msb]

Things look very positive with our young guns and the great depth evidenced by the difficulty of putting a best 22 together.

Can we win a premiership in the next 3 years, 5 years, 8 years? Maybe, but it is more likely that we won't than that we will. 18 teams, you get a window of a handful of years where you are at the peak and chances are you suffer injuries or another team is above and beyond better than anyone else. Port Adelaide, Sydney, West Coast, Hawthorn all won 1 premiership this decade, for all of them it could easily have been zero premierships. Luck, injuries, coaching all play a part. But to even be in the running you need some great players and great recruiting and list management.

With their draft picks and concessions GC and GWS would have to really blow a sandshoe to not win premierships in their first 5-8 years in the comp.

I think Hannebery, Bird, Rohan, Jetta, Smith, McVeigh, Mumford, Kennedy, McGlynn, TDL are 10 players that can form a nucleus of a great team once Goodes, O'Keefe, Bolton etc have retired. Whether it will be a premiership list depends a lot on the identity of 12 other guys to round out the team.

That is something that you cant possibly predict...I cant see why we wouldnt be able to, collingwood is the stand out team atm but other than that it is VERY open. Who would of thought that hawthorn would of won a flag in 08! They pretty much bobbed up from nowhere. It all comes down to luck with injuries and of course having the list capable. If we can continue the impressive recruiting, particularly from last year and have luck with injuries, then we are just as much a chance as anyone else IMO.

[swanspant12]

pick 21 could be patrick karnezis, who is a gun forward someone who would definetly not want to be thrown away. going to be a star

[liz]

I often feel like our list management is all about staying in touch with the top 8 and not sliding down the ladder rather than trying to win a premiership.

But we did win a premiership not so long ago!

There's no blueprint for winning a premiership. All a club can do is assemble as capable a list as it can within the recruiting constraints, develop players to the best of their ability, develop a gameplan that suits the squad and that they can execute consistently, and then keep every finger and toe crossed to hope the planets align at some point.

[giant]

But we did win a premiership not so long ago!

There's no blueprint for winning a premiership. All a club can do is assemble as capable a list as it can within the recruiting constraints, develop players to the best of their ability, develop a gameplan that suits the squad and that they can execute consistently, and then keep every finger and toe crossed to hope the planets align at some point.

And ain't this bit important? The Pies had a great game plan brilliantly executed - but they also managed to trade remarkably well, had a fab run with injuries, a dream run in fixtures/venues, any number of players that I would have categorised as dead-set hacks play out of their skins, and a number of very experienced fringe players to keep them honest. Sometimes, everything just clicks...and two years from now we'll be talking about Cloke and Dawes like we now think of Lynch and Hansen.

[Matty10]

There's no blueprint for winning a premiership. All a club can do is assemble as capable a list as it can within the recruiting constraints, develop players to the best of their ability, develop a gameplan that suits the squad and that they can execute consistently, and then keep every finger and toe crossed to hope the planets align at some point.

I agree with Liz and msb. Forget about the peaking - not peaking argument. We are a good club, who attempts to do its best each and every year - and that philosophy is just as likely to win your team a premiership than anything else.

I remember a radio broadcast mid-way through 2004 that posed the question: how many premierships will this St. Kilda team win - they didn't ask when they would win a flag, or if they would - they asked how many. I thought that it was ludicrous at the time (although it was seriously asked and discussed - there was no tongue-in-cheek). We have seen seven premierships since then, and not one has been to the Saints.

Who knows how we will go next year - realistically anything could happen. Form and confidence often go hand in hand. If we can get another good start and everyone contributes (and we are lucky with injuries) we could challenge for the top. But of course it could all go pear-shaped if things don't click. I suppose that is half the fun.

[707]

Bottoming out is no longer a viable way to build a flag tilt as the priority pick has been taken away due to the Tankers being so obvious at it last year. Also the GC and GWS concessions and the expanding number of teams make it so much more difficult to assemble a great list. Your draft picks will now be every 18th rather than 16th pick we formerly had.

I think the stunning trading and recruiting of last year has set us up nicely going forward. We do still have a more than average number of ageing players who are nearing retirement but we also have more rising talent than we've had in my memory.

Tom Mitchell will be steal next year and hopefully the Academy can unearth some players for us going forward.

So have we peaked? Probably not but a flag will be very hard to win because of who we need to overcome. Collingwood look to have built a dynastic team, I think Geelong will fade from here, still think St.Kilda's not going to make it, Bulldogs are trading like they need to get there in the next year or so or fail, but GC look to be a superpower in the making.

So enjoy the ride, I think we'll be around the top 4 mark for a few years if some of the youngsters can make the grade.

[bennyfabulous]

I dont think we have peaked, far from it. But as with each season it is totally dependent on injuries. I feel our best 22 is somewhere around 4-7 and with a little luck we could finish higher than 4th.

It is unlikely that all our young guys will improve on last season but i am hopeful most will improve or continue the form of 2010, (Jack, Kennedy, McGlynn, Jetta, Hannebery, Smith should all be fine if injury free)

Youngsters will push for selection, Rohan & LJ which will hopefully further fuel the improvement of the team.

Another bonus is ROK and Goodesy cant possibly have seasons with such lows as this year because they are both out and out champions.

And as s i said earlier injuries are the key, if the majority of guys on the list stay injury free, especially Braddy, LRT & C Bolts we are looking at a very promising year.

Im excited and cant wait for the season to start.

[Damien]

No way have we peaked, I'm excited about what can be mustered from this list. I don't think think it should be judged on performance next year either, as it quite possibly will be a testing year with Horse perhaps implementing a long term change to our playing style and some new/young players coming into our 22 (could be a while before we know our "best" 22)

[Bas]

We haven't peaked but boy have we Pyked this year. Who would have thought that Seaby's injury came as a blessing in disguise.

Now happily married, he will be busting out of his skin to keep his spot in the firsts.

[Ratna]

I think with the team we have it is more of a transition than a peak. This year showed some young players coming through and making big contributions (ie Jack, Kennedy, Hanners, Mummy, Jetta etc) but the older players are still doing their bit. IMO our senior players as a group had an ordinary output for the year and it was our younger players who got us to 5th - B & F results show this (not blaming older players it is just that injury worked against them and as a group they didn't have the season they were capable of). There are still those like Johnston and Sumner etc. who have something to offer who haven't seen seniors and those like Reid and Meredith who haven't shown their best yet, but then there are some players who are on the downhill slope. To try to predict if our improvement from youngsters will be greater than the loss due to the aging players on the list is difficult. Than you consider injuries and form????????? To predict the premiership from year to year is almost impossible, Collingwood looked very good but had a lot of things go their way, we had injuries to key personnel. IF we get a good run with injuries and modest improvement from our younger players and Canadian we should make the top 4. From there anything is possible but it has to be the young guys who propel us, and with guys like Hanners, Mummy and Jack around there is plenty of potential. Premiership from this group who are developing? Who nows, but like our last generation of leaders we have a few young blokes with the leadership qualities and the strength of character to take us a long way.

[royboy42]

I think with the team we have it is more of a transition than a peak. This year showed some young players coming through and making big contributions (ie Jack, Kennedy, Hanners, Mummy, Jetta etc) but the older players are still doing their bit. IMO our senior players as a group had an ordinary output for the year and it was our younger players who got us to 5th - B & F results show this (not blaming older players it is just that injury worked against them and as a group they didn't have the season they were capable of). There are still those like Johnston and Sumner etc. who have something to offer who haven't seen seniors and those like Reid and Meredith who haven't shown their best yet, but then there are some players who are on the downhill slope. To try to predict if our improvement from youngsters will be greater than the loss due to the aging players on the list is difficult. Than you consider injuries and form????????? To predict the premiership from year to year is almost impossible, Collingwood looked very good but had a lot of things go their way, we had injuries to key personnel. IF we get a good run with injuries and modest improvement from our younger players and Canadian we should make the top 4. From there anything is possible but it has to be the young guys who propel us, and with guys like Hanners, Mummy and Jack around there is plenty of potential. Premiership from this group who are developing? Who nows, but like our last generation of leaders we have a few young blokes with the leadership qualities and the strength of character to take us a long way.

Well said mate.
i think.
Just hit the enter every now and then so it paragraphs a bit...so much easier to read!

[SimonH]

Yes, to be completely honest, I fear that the forumites have peaked. Hope I'm wrong.

[Roscoe]

At the end of 2011 we must seriously look at our veterans and see if they are up to it

Namely Jude and Craig Bolton(if he recovers)

next under scrutiny will be the Irishman who was well below what he can do - I know I will cop heaps

about allowing him some slack - 12 months out of the game, blah, blah etc

Adam Goodes is one of my all time favourites (along with umpires favourites) and IMHO one of the

top 10 Sydney players of all time - but as a veteran needs to perform ( I'm sure he will but I'm biased)

With Trading now finished I'm happy with the Vez/Everitt deal and lets hope we draft well for the

future

[giant]

Yes, to be completely honest, I fear that the forumites have peaked. Hope I'm wrong.

Well, now I am piqued.

[Jesse Richards]

I peeked years ago, and still regret it.

[Big Al]

I peeked years ago, and still regret it.

What did you see???

[Matty10]

Yes, to be completely honest, I fear that the forumites have peaked. Hope I'm wrong.

...in quality or quality?

[Jesse Richards]

...in quality or quality?

Inequality.

[Jesse Richards]

What did you see???

Two dogs...Pekinese I think they were.

[Swanner]

i think we can win the premiership in 2011. it will come down to how well our forward line comes together full stop. we have a great backline with great depth, our midfield is exceptional with great recruitment and jack and hanners developing along with goodes playing more in the middle. for me it is a matter of bradshaw staying fit, white improving hugely and mcglynn and our smalls coming up to the mark.

[Doctor]

No we haven't peaked. Our injury list was extensive this season, including some key players, and we still performed well. I think the number of young players we have on the rise is greater than the number of retirements and those who are past their best, with all due respect to those senior players.