GWS Discussion Thread

[Mug Punter]

"Greater Western Sydney recruit Israel Folau showed how far he has to go to establish himself as an AFL player, failing to gain a possession in the Giants' practice match against Sydney's reserve side on Sunday.

The Swans' seconds dominated the match and won 23.16 (154) to 8.10 (58) at ANZ Stadium."

Israel Folau AFL debut | Team GWS (http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/giant-task-ahead-for-folau-20110403-1csyd.html)

This mob are going to be an absolute joke and Sheeds is clearly suffering the onset of senilty.

Who in their right mind will join them after seeing the pumping the Suns got last night given that their list is infinitely better than what GWS will have.

Cannot wait for the circus to begin......

[Bas]

Well they still are 12 months away from playing and have about 8 senior positions to fill.

"Show me the money" and they will line up to join. The recruiting of Folau is a different issue but he is a professional footballer and I'm sure will be ready to play Rd 1 next year.

Sheedy will never really coach them alone as his understudy Mark Williams will be the man for the future.

The AFL will fund GWS for the next 25 years so they won't be going away.

[Mug Punter]

Liz as a moderator on this forum, you really should do better than that.

My point ? Is that I have a life outside of football and still understood what Des was writing about. To put simply, that you can't compare kids on the GWS list to the Swans ressies. They have been playing and training at a superior level for years with players from the seniors list.

And they have less than 12 months to put a competitive team on the field at senior AFL level.

bas, you are clearly sold on the GWS bandwagon but as someone who lives in the real world they will be atrocious.

Yeah, they'll get the good kids but they'll get hidings for 2-3 years and then head back to Melbourne. They'll be playing in front of crowds of 5,000 muppets who will quickly get sick of being poked fun at.

Gold Coast have been years in the making, they haven't been thrown together on a corporate whim and look how tough they are going. No decent player in their right mind would swap a chance at Premiership glory for being flogged like that. The Suns also had a massive head start on revruitment and other clubs have been quickly been tying their talent to contracts past next year. Even if I was coming off contract that result and the Suns season will be a big turn off for most players with an offer on the table.

See, they only get the concessions once.....

This whole shambles is a big money play by Gonzo to get his billion dollar TV deal. Expansion could easilly blow up in his face. We got 28,000 to see that brilliant match on Sunday, how many will turn up to see a bunch of no-names get flogged by 150 points and Israel Folau being the biggest joke in Australian sport.

I cannot wait:)

[Auntie.Gerald]

ouch

GWS is good for sydney and the game.............just not fun for 10yrs ! :)

[ugg]

In dangeous territory of drifting into GWS talk, but I was very surprised they didn't draft more mature age players in the rookie draft as GC did with Daniel Harris, Danny Stanley and Sam Iles. In fact they only utilised 6 of their 8 picks in that draft.

[Mug Punter]

In dangeous territory of drifting into GWS talk, but I was very surprised they didn't draft more mature age players in the rookie draft as GC did with Daniel Harris, Danny Stanley and Sam Iles. In fact they only utilised 6 of their 8 picks in that draft.

The whole thing has been a shambles since day one.

No-one in Sydney asked for this team, unlike the Gold Coast who have been lobbying for years. Appoint a self-absorbed publicity as coach who is showing signs oif early senility, pay MILLIONS for a bloke who cannot get a kick. Insult the existing AFL fan base (i.e. Swans fans) by their arrogant approach that shows no respect or understanding of how hard this marketplace is. I know I speak for most Swans fans I talk to when I say I will not put one dollar into this mob. So now they need new fans. All those fans that somehow the Swans have missed since 1982 and will come out of the woodwork to see Izzy make a fool out of himself.

They now have a B-grade list that cannot get even close to an AFL reserves team. How on earth can they be competitive. Wait for the uproar when they demand (and get) more concessions once they see how hard it is....

It will be absolutely hilarious and I cannot wait:)

[Bas]

bas, you are clearly sold on the GWS bandwagon but as someone who lives in the real world they will be atrocious.

We got 28,000 to see that brilliant match on Sunday, how many will turn up to see a bunch of no-names get flogged by 150 points and Israel Folau being the biggest joke in Australian sport.

I cannot wait:)

As you live in the real world, how is GWS' entry into the Sydney market any different from the Swans in 1982? At least the market has been established.

To have TWO teams in Sydney is much better for the development of AFL in this city. Any high school economics student will tell you that a duopoly is much better for a market than a monopoly. It leads to competition as is the case between Coles and Woolies at the moment.

I have been a Swans member since 1997 and am a foundation member of GWS. I am also a an AFL full member as well. So I might know a thing or two. GWS also means more opportunity for kids playing AFL in Sydney/NSW. How is that not good?

If the Swans aren't playing in Sydney, apart from the Saturday afternoon game on the ABC, there is no other AFL content on Sydney radio. Nothing. Ten years ago we had a friday night game, saturday afternoon and night and Sunday afternoon. Haven't the Swans helped that. NOT.

Two things you have not mentioned is that for some players it is a job and they will take the money. Don't kid yourself otherwise. Second, the AFL will fund GWS for 20 years like they did with the Swans.

I think there should be much greater concerns as to why only 28,000 people turned up on Sunday. That number had nothing to do with GWS.

As far as Folau is concerned. He has the money. If the experiment works, just watch the westies flood in if GWS gets their marketing right.

[Bas]

The whole thing has been a shambles since day one.

No-one in Sydney asked for this team, unlike the Gold Coast who have been lobbying for years. Appoint a self-absorbed publicity as coach who is showing signs oif early senility, pay MILLIONS for a bloke who cannot get a kick. Insult the existing AFL fan base (i.e. Swans fans) by their arrogant approach that shows no respect or understanding of how hard this marketplace is. I know I speak for most Swans fans I talk to when I say I will not put one dollar into this mob. So now they need new fans. All those fans that somehow the Swans have missed since 1982 and will come out of the woodwork to see Izzy make a fool out of himself.

They now have a B-grade list that cannot get even close to an AFL reserves team. How on earth can they be competitive. Wait for the uproar when they demand (and get) more concessions once they see how hard it is....

It will be absolutely hilarious and I cannot wait:)

Are you upset they didn't ask your permission?

GWS has a foundation membership base of about 8,500 members. I was told that by someone I know who is associated with the Club. Swans had less than 2000 in 1996. It only went up the following year and that figure was boosted because they got into the GF. The Brewongle stand up to 1996 was reserved for Swans members, There was hardly anyone there in 96.

You mention insulting the existing AFL fan base as being Swans fans. You might be surprised. The red zone at ANZ for last years magies game had hundreds of black and white jumpers. Where did they come from?

You've missed the point on why they recruited Folau. He's laughing stock today. He, like Hunt are professional athletes and they will make it. If Mike Pyke can then these two are far superior non AFL athletes to Mike.

Time will tell. GWS might get flogged in the first year or two but that will change. The AFL will make sure it does.

[Big Al]

I agree 100% with everything Bas has said on here regarding GWS. I too have bought a foundation membership and more than likely get some type of game package next year.

I do this because I like a lot of people who love AFL understand that the failure of GWS will damage the AFL in this city which in turn will damage the Swans. The only caveat I put on my support is that the AFL and GWS must ensure that all their policies are aimed at growing the code and supporter base and not cannibalize the existing support for Sydney. It will be a tough road no question and short sighted people will take great delight in the early failings but I'm heartened by the fact the AFL are in it for the long haul and when GWS becomes a success these people will look rather foolish.

[Big Al]

As for Folou he has somewhat earned his money already. Without Folou GWS would barely rate a mention in the media. Everyone knows what GWS is now.

Will he make it as an AFL player?? Really not sure but he's an elite athlete and if Pyke can make it Folou certainly can.

[Triple B]

I'm with Bas and BigAl on the GWS issue as well. They may well get flogged, but I'm very much looking forward to attending the first match next year, if only for the 'I was there' factor.

[Mug Punter]

Second, the AFL will fund GWS for 20 years like they did with the Swans.

Early contender for ignorant quote of the year.....

[Chilcott]

Second, the AFL will fund GWS for 20 years like they did with the Swans.


Early contender for ignorant quote of the year.....

Ignorant. Not sure about that? More likely fact.

[jono2707]

I'm with Bas and BigAl on the GWS issue as well. They may well get flogged, but I'm very much looking forward to attending the first match next year, if only for the 'I was there' factor.

It'll be kind of like slowing down to look at a really bad car crash.... ;)

[Mug Punter]

Second, the AFL will fund GWS for 20 years like they did with the Swans.



Ignorant. Not sure about that? More likely fact.

The AFL went within an inch of letting us go bust in the early 90s. If it wasn't for the likes of Willesee, Kimberley and co doing their dough for the love of the club we would not be here.

We repeatedly asked for concessions like getting a prioroty pick for the best NSW junior and never got. Even salary cap concessions were fought all the way.

I know nothing of the AFL ever giving us special funding since the inception of the club. The new owners back in the 80s even had to pay a licence fee.

Fact? I don't think so......

[Big Al]

The AFL went within an inch of letting us go bust in the early 90s. If it wasn't for the likes of Willesee, Kimberley and co doing their dough for the love of the club we would not be here.

We repeatedly asked for concessions like getting a prioroty pick for the best NSW junior and never got. Even salary cap concessions were fought all the way.

I know nothing of the AFL ever giving us special funding since the inception of the club. The new owners back in the 80s even had to pay a licence fee.

Fact? I don't think so......

The fact that Bas said 20 years makes your point about the 1980's irrelevant. In the early 90's the gentlemen you mention did indeed keep the club afloat financially before the AFL finally stepped in with an injection of cash. All the clubs bar one (Carlton) voted to save the Swans.

[laughingnome]

I side with Mug Punter. While the AFL ultimately did save the club through the cash injection Big Al mentions, they also let us (and Brisbane) be the guinea pigs for private ownership in the 80's that saw our fortunes take such a dive, and all the while not giving the club any special consideration to priority picks or other concessions.

Yes, the AFL came to the party in the early 90's, but GWS will never have the first 10 years that Sydney had because they are being spoonfed from the get-go. That, I think, is the point of conjecture Mug Punter is raising: The VFL/AFL didn't prop us up for 20 years, they let us rise, stumble and flail on our own before coming to the rescue in the nick of time. Maybe it hurt the Sydney Brand, maybe it built character, all I know is that it is no way going to be at all similar to GWS.

[Mug Punter]

I side with Mug Punter. While the AFL ultimately did save the club through the cash injection Big Al mentions, they also let us (and Brisbane) be the guinea pigs for private ownership in the 80's that saw our fortunes take such a dive, and all the while not giving the club any special consideration to priority picks or other concessions.

Yes, the AFL came to the party in the early 90's, but GWS will never have the first 10 years that Sydney had because they are being spoonfed from the get-go. That, I think, is the point of conjecture Mug Punter is raising: The VFL/AFL didn't prop us up for 20 years, they let us rise, stumble and flail on our own before coming to the rescue in the nick of time. Maybe it hurt the Sydney Brand, maybe it built character, all I know is that it is no way going to be at all similar to GWS.

The idea of comparing the creation of this guinea pig team to the relocation of South Melbourne to Sydney in a "move or persih" scenario is just riduculous.

Go to a match in Melbourne and you'll be amazed by the amount of support for us. Sure some is from Sydneysiders who have moved but most of the old South Melbourne fans have stayed loyal because we respect their history and their traditions.

Comparing a one-off cash injection from the AFL to the HUNDREDS of misspent millions that will be wasted on this new plastic club is equally ridiculous.

Everyone keeps on harping on about how GWS is so good for the game in Sydney. My counter-argument is those hundreds of millions would be much better spent in providing grassroots funding and facilities in Sydney and actively growing the game from the bottom up. THEN we might be able to sustain a second team but certainly not now....

[ShockOfHair]

GWS is an exercise in marketing, not footy.

To be a successful footy club you need cash, membership and onfield success.

The AFL has said it will spend up to $200m on GSW and the Gold Coast over the next five to six years. Roughly speaking, you need around $30 million to run a viable AFL footy club. (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-clubs-financial-premiership-stakes/story-e6frf9jf-1225815392261) The Gold Coast Suns is going to be financially successful, so there's a lot of lolly left over to tip into GWS.

The smallest AFL clubs, like us and the Lions, have more than 20,000 members. You probably need at least 15,000 to be viable. Is that really so difficult in a catchment area of 2 million people (including ACT)? The Suns have around 12,000 members already and it wouldn't surprise me if GWS already has 8,000, as Bas says. There's already a sound AFL community in northwest Sydney, along with thousands of people in the region who are from AFL states who don't have a team. I can't see why the Giants can't get good membership numbers.

The onfield success is going to come, though probably not until 2014-15, unless it does some monumentally stupid things.

All those people who say they couldn't care less - just watch their reaction when GWS beats the Swans for the first time.

[Ken Oath]

The idea of comparing the creation of this guinea pig team to the relocation of South Melbourne to Sydney in a "move or persih" scenario is just riduculous.

Go to a match in Melbourne and you'll be amazed by the amount of support for us. Sure some is from Sydneysiders who have moved but most of the old South Melbourne fans have stayed loyal because we respect their history and their traditions.

Comparing a one-off cash injection from the AFL to the HUNDREDS of misspent millions that will be wasted on this new plastic club is equally ridiculous.

Everyone keeps on harping on about how GWS is so good for the game in Sydney. My counter-argument is those hundreds of millions would be much better spent in providing grassroots funding and facilities in Sydney and actively growing the game from the bottom up. THEN we might be able to sustain a second team but certainly not now....

Well said. Best comment regarding GWS & AFL in general in Sydney.
Spot on.

[SimonH]

The idea of comparing the creation of this guinea pig team to the relocation of South Melbourne to Sydney in a "move or persih" scenario is just riduculous.

Go to a match in Melbourne and you'll be amazed by the amount of support for us. Sure some is from Sydneysiders who have moved but most of the old South Melbourne fans have stayed loyal because we respect their history and their traditions.

Comparing a one-off cash injection from the AFL to the HUNDREDS of misspent millions that will be wasted on this new plastic club is equally ridiculous.

Everyone keeps on harping on about how GWS is so good for the game in Sydney. My counter-argument is those hundreds of millions would be much better spent in providing grassroots funding and facilities in Sydney and actively growing the game from the bottom up. THEN we might be able to sustain a second team but certainly not now....Lovely theory, but in reality, the money is coming from the AFL, not the 'improve Aussie rules football in Sydney benevolent society', and the tail don't wag the dog. The focus of their efforts is not to, for example, develop competitive top-level Sydney comp clubs in the Parramatta-Penrith corridor. Projects that may ultimately have long-term benefits for Aussie rules in Sydney, but will take at least 10 years to increase the number of AFL players who hail from Sydney, and may not have much positive benefit at all in terms of improving attendance at AFL games played in Sydney, aren't the league's focus.

It's not, and has never been, a question of 'Do you want tens or hundreds of millions to further massively increase Sydney junior participation and follow-through to senior grades, plus growing Sydney AFL into a league to outshine Canberra and rival WAFL, SANFL or VFL; or do you want the same amount of money to start up GWS in the AFL and sustain them for a decade plus of heavy financial losses?' If the money weren't coming for GWS, it wouldn't be coming at all.

I think that using Sydney Swans as a point of comparison and contrast, isn't arguing that 1982 is identical to 2012. I don't read anyone as suggesting that moving a long-established and proud Melbourne-based VFL club up north, is the same as the AFL effectively starting its own franchise from the ground up.

Decent effort to beat Ainslie, who are no slouches, incidentally. Would be interested to hear who the stars were.

[Mug Punter]

Lovely theory, but in reality, the money is coming from the AFL, not the 'improve Aussie rules football in Sydney benevolent society', and the tail don't wag the dog. The focus of their efforts is not to, for example, develop competitive top-level Sydney comp clubs in the Parramatta-Penrith corridor. Projects that may ultimately have long-term benefits for Aussie rules in Sydney, but will take at least 10 years to increase the number of AFL players who hail from Sydney, and may not have much positive benefit at all in terms of improving attendance at AFL games played in Sydney, aren't the league's focus.

It's not, and has never been, a question of 'Do you want tens or hundreds of millions to further massively increase Sydney junior participation and follow-through to senior grades, plus growing Sydney AFL into a league to outshine Canberra and rival WAFL, SANFL or VFL; or do you want the same amount of money to start up GWS in the AFL and sustain them for a decade plus of heavy financial losses?' If the money weren't coming for GWS, it wouldn't be coming at all.

I think that using Sydney Swans as a point of comparison and contrast, isn't arguing that 1982 is identical to 2012. I don't read anyone as suggesting that moving a long-established and proud Melbourne-based VFL club up north, is the same as the AFL effectively starting its own franchise from the ground up.

Decent effort to beat Ainslie, who are no slouches, incidentally. Would be interested to hear who the stars were.

Not talking about an 'improve Aussie rules football in Sydney benevolent society', and I think the tail is definitely wagging this dog.

Just my opinion but I think if a more considered bottom up approach had been adopted then this mob would have had a much better chance of success. GWS is just part of a hastilly drawn together media rights deal play. It's high risk if the deal doesn't come off.

I just see this whole exercise as a house of cards built on fragile foundations, Genuine engagement with the local footy community that had the sport at a grass roots level strong and flourishing (not struggling as it is now) qwould have created a better environment for success.

But it's not about that is it, it's about Gonzo's desire to leave a legacy. What that legacy is only time will tell.

Who cares if they beat Ainslie? Apparently Israel got SIX touches - amazing stats for the man with the leather allergy....

[Cheer Squad]

GWS has a foundation membership base of about 8,500 members. I was told that by someone I know who is associated with the Club.

GWS publish their membership figures on a daily basis. Here's the link:

Greater Western Sydney Giants | Home (http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/)

They will probably pass 9,000 foundation members next week sometime.

As to who's buying the memberships, it's a safe bet that GWS has more than a few dual members with the Swans, plus ex-patriate interstate members of other clubs (there must be thousands of these people in Sydney). There would also be some genuine western suburbs locals (how many is the $64,000 question).

Of course, the crunch will come next year, when we find out how many of these $50 Foundation Memberships convert into full memberships.

[Mug Punter]

GWS publish their membership figures on a daily basis. Here's the link:

Greater Western Sydney Giants | Home (http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/)

They will probably pass 9,000 foundation members next week sometime.

As to who's buying the memberships, it's a safe bet that GWS has more than a few dual members with the Swans, plus ex-patriate interstate members of other clubs (there must be thousands of these people in Sydney). There would also be some genuine western suburbs locals (how many is the $64,000 question).

Of course, the crunch will come next year, when we find out how many of these $50 Foundation Memberships convert into full memberships.

Check out the Bogan with his Snowboard, think you'll find a black and white strip underthat godwaful strip of theirs......

[Mug Punter]

Check out the Bogan with his Snowboard, think you'll find a black and white strip underthat godwaful strip of theirs......

Or the Geordie with Noocastle strip on and tough sticks. One of Gazza'a mates probably, as if he'll hang around once they've copped their third 100 hiding in a row.

A more motley crew it would be hard to find. LMAO:)

[unconfuseme]

lets get real here ... they have a couple of thousand members, at best, from their 2million + Western Sydney catchment area, which is poor!

... the first 5000+ members signed up for $50 a pop the middle of last year, and are all from CANBERRA under the "ACT 4 GWS" deal that ensures that once they are up and running, they will rarely play in Greater Western Sydney anyway!

... so if you are one of those few and true fans from Blacktown, make sure you get the car serviced regularly, and have plenty of warm clothes! ... it's a nice trip down to the nation's capital, but less fun on the way back after a floggin!!!

[Big Al]

lets get real here ... they have a couple of thousand members, at best, from their 2million + Western Sydney catchment area, which is poor!

... the first 5000+ members signed up for $50 a pop the middle of last year, and are all from CANBERRA under the "ACT 4 GWS" deal that ensures that once they are up and running, they will rarely play in Greater Western Sydney anyway!

... so if you are one of those few and true fans from Blacktown, make sure you get the car serviced regularly, and have plenty of warm clothes! ... it's a nice trip down to the nation's capital, but less fun on the way back after a floggin!!!

How about 20,000 members in a city of 4 million for a team actually playing. Utterly disgraceful. :D

Also the RAS, AFL and State Govt are putting in millions to redevolop the showground so I don't think they'll take to kindly to GWS rarely playing in Western Sydney.

[Mug Punter]

lets get real here ... they have a couple of thousand members, at best, from their 2million + Western Sydney catchment area, which is poor!

... the first 5000+ members signed up for $50 a pop the middle of last year, and are all from CANBERRA under the "ACT 4 GWS" deal that ensures that once they are up and running, they will rarely play in Greater Western Sydney anyway!

... so if you are one of those few and true fans from Blacktown, make sure you get the car serviced regularly, and have plenty of warm clothes! ... it's a nice trip down to the nation's capital, but less fun on the way back after a floggin!!!

The sell-out to Canberra was a complete disgrace (not that I give a rat's). The amount of taxpayer money being wasted at Homebush where we already have an AFL venue, is a disgrace.

When this exercise totally hits the skids in season 3 or 4 I could quite easilly see a permanent re-location and branding to Canberra. That actually makes sense as the local ACTAFL has been stagnating for years down there with the Brumbies and Raiders dominating the market. Plus they have a huge genuine catchment area from the Riverina.

[Cheer Squad]

They've now got an even 9000 members...

Greater Western Sydney Giants | Home (http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/)

The milestone, 10,000, will be a significant one if it can be achieved.

[R-1]

Hey, a permament relocation to Canberra wouldn't be a bad thing for mine! We're pretty football starved down here, spare a thought for us before you complain about losing a couple of games. I mean, Sydney (the city) will be getting football nearly every other weekend starting next year.

I'm a Giants member and will likely go to all three of their Canberra games (although we will NEVER get a regular season Swans game down here obviously) becuase it's important to grow the game. The way I figure it, Canberra will never get its own team if we can't support the Giants part time.

[Wardy]

The sell-out to Canberra was a complete disgrace (not that I give a rat's). The amount of taxpayer money being wasted at Homebush where we already have an AFL venue, is a disgrace.

When this exercise totally hits the skids in season 3 or 4 I could quite easilly see a permanent re-location and branding to Canberra. That actually makes sense as the local ACTAFL has been stagnating for years down there with the Brumbies and Raiders dominating the market. Plus they have a huge genuine catchment area from the Riverina.

I'm quite sad that you want something, especially the game you allegedly love, to fail so spectacularly. Sure it could have been done differently and Tassie should have had a team first, but it hasn't, so you just deal with it.

Its beyond anyones control and I doubt the local councils involved would have taken it on if they didnt see the potential for growth and have the backing by the extremely cashed up AFL. It is after all a business. A business that provides entertainment to many and also great joy one team out of the 17 (soon to be 18) and its supporters on last weekend of the season each year.

The two teams can co-exist in Sydney its just going to take time. just like the AFL & the NRL can co-exist in Sydney (despite the crap written in the Daliy telegraph) It took years, but we are still here!!!

I'm looking forward to senior footy being on offer every weekend in Sydney.

You have the choice on whether you join the club, attend or not to have anything to do with it, its not going to harm anyone.

[Mug Punter]

I'm quite sad that you want something, especially the game you allegedly love, to fail so spectacularly. Sure it could have been done differently and Tassie should have had a team first, but it hasn't, so you just deal with it.

Its beyond anyones control and I doubt the local councils involved would have taken it on if they didnt see the potential for growth and have the backing by the extremely cashed up AFL. It is after all a business. A business that provides entertainment to many and also great joy one team out of the 17 (soon to be 18) and its supporters on last weekend of the season each year.

The two teams can co-exist in Sydney its just going to take time. just like the AFL & the NRL can co-exist in Sydney (despite the crap written in the Daliy telegraph) It took years, but we are still here!!!

I'm looking forward to senior footy being on offer every weekend in Sydney.

You have the choice on whether you join the club, attend or not to have anything to do with it, its not going to harm anyone.

As Roosy has stated, the risk with this gamble, and it is a gamble, is that the AFL will have two weak teams in Sydney.

It's not about me wanting them to fail I just think they have totally under-estimated the job at hand and I think they have gone about this entire exercise in the wrong way. Sure they will get some good young kids (who will head home after 2-3 years at that joke of a club) and sure they will pick up some mercenaries but how can anyone seeing that team get absolutely belted by the Bullants in the Foxtel Cup today see them being ready.

They'll get 10,000 - 15,000 for their first game and my prediction is they will plateau at crowds of about 7,500 for the rest of the season.

Time will tell whether the AFL have the stomach to make this work in the long run because make no mistake about it, the Melbourne media will have an absolute feeding frenzy on the Bogans the way they are shaping up.

[OtherTeamCanada]

In any North American professional sport it's a given that expansion teams will get flogged for 5+ years before they even get a sniff of the playoffs. I like the breaks that the AFL gives the new teams to be competitive sooner but it's not a guarantee. Expansion teams are a long term positive addition to the AFL as a whole so if it takes 5 years or 10 years for them to be competitive then so be it.

The expectation of being a competitive side in year 1 or 2 is unrealistic. Local fans should just be excited that they have a team to call their own and that should last them for a few years.

[top40]

With 5,000 members in the ACT GWS are looking good in Canberra. And they marketed very well at the Bulldogs-Swans games at Manuka. Their aim is to promote an informal merger with the Eastlakes Social Club, (round the block from Manuka), so fans will be involved in pre and post game events in Canberra.

Canberra is too small for a 100% relocation, however if they keep up the good work in the nation's capital it will be a very helpful buffer for any teething problems in Western Sydney. I predict that in 2012 the Giants will play:

3 times at ANZ (against the Swans, the Pies and another top Victorian team)
7 times at the Sydney Showground
3 times at Manuka (one home and two away games)

[R-1]

I dunno, there's a lot of money at Ainslie, Belco and Eastlake through their ownership of clubs. By some accounts Ainslie are the 2nd richest club outside of the AFL (after Southport, though surely Centrals are bigger), and the Canberra-Queenbeyan area has a population of 350K, not far short of Gold Coast-Tweed at 450K.

I reckon between them, the local clubs could support an AFL side a bit like Southport helped drive the Gold Coast bid. Lotsa expats through the public service, plentiful ACT govt money available to sport... if North and Port are viable, then I don't think it's a stretch that Canberra could be.

[jono2707]

In any North American professional sport it's a given that expansion teams will get flogged for 5+ years before they even get a sniff of the playoffs. I like the breaks that the AFL gives the new teams to be competitive sooner but it's not a guarantee. Expansion teams are a long term positive addition to the AFL as a whole so if it takes 5 years or 10 years for them to be competitive then so be it.

The expectation of being a competitive side in year 1 or 2 is unrealistic. Local fans should just be excited that they have a team to call their own and that should last them for a few years.

Good point but in North American sport you normally have cities pushing ultra-hard for expansion franchises which generally have a large tide of local public (and corporate) support behind them. I just don't see this occurring here with GWS - it is more the AFL thinking that they can force so much money into this move that people in Sydney will eventually roll over. The AFL have grossly underestimated the effort required to do this and I agree with the fear expressed by Mug above that we'll end up with two weak teams here in Sydney.

[R-1]

GWS is an area of 2 million people. It's a tenth of the country. The AFL really only needs 2% of that for a viable team, some as members, the rest as supporters. Throw in the ACT angle and that's a nice buffer.

They're targetting the youth hard, and planning for crowds of around 15K, which is very doable. It's not as insurmountable a task as it perhaps seems.