Is Johnston no good as a forward?

[ernie koala]

I'm a little curious as to why LJ has not been given a chance to show his wares, at senior level, as a forward. He played his junior footy as a forward with much success, which had him drafted in the first round.On top of this, I've read he's regarded as the best kick for goal at the club. I know plenty of players have been moved from the forwardline to the backline with success...Grundy and Richards spring to mind. The difference is they were given plenty of opportunities as forwards, with limited success, before being moved back. Given LJ can lead, mark and is a beautiful set shot, surely he should be given an opportunity up forward. He's a natural forward, drafted in the 1st round...lets see what he can do, as a forward, in the seniors.

[BSA5]

The problem is he's probably not big enough to be a key forward. He's only a touch over 190 cms, and he's not a bulky guy. Sometimes a person's muscle develops so that they become bulky, power-athletes. LJ isn't one of them. He's sleek, sinewy. Not weak, but not big, which is the point. Half the reason key forwards like to be big isn't for wrestling defenders; it's for shielding the ball on the lead, blocking space, etc. Hall was/is a master of it. It was rare that he actually used his strength directly on his opponent, but he used his giant bulk cleverly to block, allow the ball to fall to his advantage and prevent spoils on the lead.

LJ doesn't have the physique to be a power forward, but he does have the pound-for-pound strength, or at least the potential to achieve the pound-for-pound strength, to match it with key forwards in marking contests. He also has the skills to be dangerous on the rebound.

I've seen LJ up forward and down back a few times now. Not as many as Ugg, Liz and so on, but a few times, and while LJ was always a bit exciting and classy up forward, he never imposed himself. His games down back, on the other hand, have been a bit rough around the edges at times, showing some inexperience in the marking contests and such, but he has been able to impose himself a bit more, get more consistently involved. It seems like he has a higher ceiling down back than up forward.

And the best part is, while he's probably not quite physically ready to play as a key defender, he has the pace and agility to play on a HBF if we need him (not that we're running short of such players, but yeah).

Finally, with only Alex Johnson and possibly Campbell Heath as our young, up-and-coming key defenders, and Spangher as some handy-but-currently-injured depth, we need some more depth there. Up forward we've got White, Reid, Pyke (who seems to be making a transition to near-full-time KPF duties) and Haren, with TDL capable of playing out of FF, and Rohan yet to find a place but looking OK up forward.

[Hartijon]

I don't have a problem with what has been said above and his suitability for backlines but I am still curious too.We recruit a top pick draft as a forward,the guy can kick(God knows we need this!),mark on a lead and is generally well skilled and knows where the goals are. Why not give him a chance in the forwards first?

One comment about the Geelong game. Podsiadly stood out because he was a forward! No need to make excuses for him and once he found his range we were in trouble(no disrespect to Ted who did a great job) . We need this type of player. Maybe LJ is not but we will never know unless we try him.How long has it been that we had a forward who can hold a tricky pack mark on a flank then slot the goal? I would just love to see LJ given a chance to show us what he can do.

[ernie koala]

And the best part is, while he's probably not quite physically ready to play as a key defender, he has the pace and agility to play on a HBF if we need him (not that we're running short of such players, but yeah).

Finally, with only Alex Johnson and possibly Campbell Heath as our young, up-and-coming key defenders, and Spangher as some handy-but-currently-injured depth, we need some more depth there. Up forward we've got White, Reid, Pyke (who seems to be making a transition to near-full-time KPF duties) and Haren, with TDL capable of playing out of FF, and Rohan yet to find a place but looking OK up forward.

I understand what your saying re: LJ as a key forward, but I never suggested he be put in as our key, power forward. Surely, as you've suggested Re: his suitability as a HBF with his present size,and inexperience, he would be well suited as a forward flanker.

[Cheer Squad]

He's starting to remind me of Vespremi in that he's been on the list for a while and hasn't gone anywhere.

I know he missed 2009 with a foot injury, but he should have made his senior debut by now. Look at how quickly Alex Johnson was given a go.

You'd think he'd get some sort of chance soon, or why bother keeping him?

[Nico]

Probably not if they are playing him in defence in the 2's.

[satchmopugdog]

My take on it is that because he is such a good kick they are going to use him as a distributer from the half back line to set up attacks

[Lucky Knickers]

I often hear pundits state that the position that a some play in junior footy isn't the one they are suited for in senior footy. I hope to see LJ soon.

[Nico]

I often hear pundits state that the position that a some play in junior footy isn't the one they are suited for in senior footy. I hope to see LJ soon.

How true is this. Here's an example:

Damian Cupido ex Essendon, Brisbane played footy with my son at Auskick and Junior Footy. Damian was way ahead of anyone his age in the Eastern Football League Juniors in Melbourne. The next best was Sam Mitchell. Damian was destined to be a star. At 14 after the 14's season finished he played an Under 18's game for Croydon and kicked 6 goals. The under 18's is one of the main feeder comps for the Eastern Ranges in the TAC CUP.

Up until Under 16's Damian played on the ball against Sam Mitchell and beat him hands down every time we played Mooroolbark. Mind you Sam was pretty darn good. I ran the boundary so saw them close up. Before games we heard other clubs parents say Cupido was overrated and watch so and so tear him apart today but of course by games end there was silence. When Damian went to the Eastern Ranges they had him playing in the backline then realised he was such a good kick he could slot goals at ease. Problem was Damian had stopped growing and even at 18's level was not tall enough for a key position. I recall when he was drafted he was listed as a midfielder, and Mathews said something along the lines that they believed he was about the best midfielder in the draft,(Mitchell wasn't drafted because he was "too slow") but when he went to Brisbane he was stereo typed as a forward. His papers were stamped as a forward. Two shoulder injuries later he was off to Essendon and the same happened. I saw him play an excellent quarter at Ethihad Stadium for Essendon when he was moved on to the ball and he looked so at ease and home, but alas next week he was back up forward.

Damian was a brilliant footballer, who could kick equally as well both feet, was athletic, agile and quick but faded away through inconsistency and in part this was because he was never allowed to play his natural game.

Maybe LJ was better suited to defence but at 18's level was agile and opportunist enough play forward and kick goals. As Roosey says there is a huge chasm between Under 18's and AFL. If they are seen as something they are not it makes it even bigger and harder to readjust.

[nomae]

Cameron Ling played full forward as a junior.

That being said I wouldn't mind seeing LJ have a crack in the seniors forward line, god knows we need someone to kick goals.

[giant]

It would be nice to find out wouldn't it?

[ShockOfHair]

Not unusual for young players to take a little while to find their place in things. Plenty of batsmen who started as bowlers and vice versa (not that I can think of one right now...).

Sounds like LJ is headed for the backline, but in this brave new era of multitasking it doesn't mean he won't play forward. Our defence is aging a little - Kennelly turns 30 this year, Mattner 29, LRT & Ted 28. With Melcho's injuries it's good to have someone else with his footskills, plus the ability to take a big mark.

[BSA5]

Not unusual for young players to take a little while to find their place in things. Plenty of batsmen who started as bowlers and vice versa (not that I can think of one right now...

Off topic, but Kevin Pietersen was a bowler at schoolboy level, and possibly u19s. Krejza was a batsman when he first got into FC cricket. Nathan Hauritz was a batting allrounder in the u19s, ditto Steve O'Keefe. Trent Copeland was a wicketkeeper/batsman in Sydney grade cricket until 3-4 years ago, when he picked up seam bowling, and is now the most consistent and dangerous seamer in domestic FC cricket.

[ShockOfHair]

Thanks BSA5. That's just what I meant!

[Primmy]

Give the kid a go for heavens sake! Even the coaching staff is hanging in with Curry, so why not Johnston? He will be fine, in his own time; not all of the younguns can be a Hannerbery, Reid or Johnson! As for comparing him with Vezpremi, no. Not having that. He has a better team awareness, so no comparison.

[Hartijon]

Thanks BSA5. That's just what I meant!
You guys make a good point but I still feel the Swans are tied to the notion that you win by preventing your opponents kicking goals and therefore there is always a defensive first response to fitting a player in. My son summed up what I am trying to say by saying "If Podsiadly played for us he would be in the backlines!"
Why? He is tall,can mark and kick straight.

Who knows ? This strategy used to work for us and won us a premiership but teams like Geelong and Hawthorn have shown another way.

[Triple B]

I just see it as all part of his development. It would not surprise to see him at either end of the ground when he finally debuts.

[BSA5]

You guys make a good point but I still feel the Swans are tied to the notion that you win by preventing your opponents kicking goals and therefore there is always a defensive first response to fitting a player in. My son summed up what I am trying to say by saying "If Podsiadly played for us he would be in the backlines!"
Why? He is tall,can mark and kick straight.

Who knows ? This strategy used to work for us and won us a premiership but teams like Geelong and Hawthorn have shown another way.

We moved Sam Reid from defence into attack. Ditto Paul Bevan. Adam Goodes went from the midfield to the forward line, as has Jude Bolton at times. ROK started as a defender and moved forward. It goes both ways.

[ugg]

We moved Sam Reid from defence into attack. Ditto Paul Bevan. Adam Goodes went from the midfield to the forward line, as has Jude Bolton at times. ROK started as a defender and moved forward. It goes both ways.
Plus we like to play them in different positions to where they were 'brought up' in the ressies.

Reg was mostly a forward (although I acknowledge they tried him as a forward first up in the seniors)
Jesse played both forward and back as well as in the ruck.
Kizza started as a back pocket, as did Smith.
Simon Phillips (remember him?) was a potent small forward in the ressies, yet they played him a lot up the ground.
Sumner has been used mainly in the backline and midfield, yet in his first game they played him as a forward tag.

As for Johnston, I don't see him making it as a backman, not in the short term anyway. While he has done well, and deservedly received praise for his latest game, he hasn't been truly tested by a really good forward yet. I still think he will get done by a clever, bulky forward who knows how to use his body to full advantage. The Reserves have dominated most of their games, and hence dominated most of the possession.

With Campbell Heath, Spangher coming back and LRT, Malceski, Kennelly to be inserted into the seniors backline soon and hence pushing some guys out, he won't be needed as a defender anymore.

[Mountain Man]

LJ currently 20; 192 cm and 88kg

Malceski aged 26; 189cm and 86kg
Kennelly aged 29; 190cm and 89kg
Mattner aged 28; 189cm and 86kg

The latter 3 are clearly in our 'best' 22 both as players and for the roles they play in the team. If LJ playing down back is part of some 'succession planning' by the coaches, so be it.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Tarrant !

[Auntie.Gerald]

Grundy
LJ
AJ
Reid
Everitt
White

are our talls of the future where ever they play

Goodes, Kennelly, LRT, Mattner and Teddy we have a few more years from............which is much more genuine depth then I suspected coming into 2011

[GongSwan]

[QUOTE=ShockOfHair;525416]Not unusual for young players to take a little while to find their place in things. Plenty of batsmen who started as bowlers and vice versa (not that I can think of one right now...).

What's that guys name that opens the batting for Australia, oh yeah, Shane Watson, fast bowler bats a bit, now our best batsman. There is still a lot to be said for making forwards by playing them in defence on good forwards to learn to read the play, ball drop, body position etc, I don't understand why they haven't moved White into the backline to give some size to it, this is where we are lacking, not running backs, they abound in great numbers, if u include the injured, Irish, and Eski, they have to be in the top 22, no what we need is a backman who can throw his weight around and create a contest with a big forward, and White is my choice, make him work a bit harder, learn a few things, then move him back if we need him, the kids can only do so much while they're bodies fill out. Once LRT and the others come back into the team, a major overhaul of the back six will be necessary. I'm not necessarily bagging Jesse, but he needs to do more, and he needs to learn quick

[nomae]

With Campbell Heath, Spangher coming back and LRT, Malceski, Kennelly to be inserted into the seniors backline soon and hence pushing some guys out, he won't be needed as a defender anymore.

Is Campbell Heath any good?

[aardvark]

Is Campbell Heath any good?

What little i've seen of him he looks really good IMO.

[Hartijon]

Getting back to Johnston (LJ) ,I don't really mind where they play him as long as they play him(,although I would have thought a crack in the forwards was a good idea). What I really want however is for the selectors to play him and fairly soon. It must be a bit of a psychological hang up waiting for the call when you are recognised as one of the best kicks in the side and have played as well as any in the twos. I don't want to see self doubt impair this young man's progress.

[Primmy]

Is Campbell Heath any good?

Yes.

He has the Best hands. Looking forward to seeing him play. He is an AFLer, IMO.

[unconfuseme]

Henry is on record as saying "... we are teaching him how to play down back ..." which is what you do with every new kid to the game!

LJ reminds me very much of the Jack Watts style silky athletic FF or CHF who was just superior to all the other kids, right through junior football - tall and agile, great kick for goal so all he had to do in those junior talent squads, was present, mark and goal!

Unfortunately, this does not always immediately translate to senior AFL ... ask the Demons!

Also, he lost a full season with injury, plus they have already had to work to get his head around the necessary changes, and to understand that it is NOT going to just all fall in his lap for him.

To me, he is at the same stage as a first year rookie, and he is going OK! ... still not sure where he ends up playing, but suspect he IS a forward.

[BSA5]

Plus we like to play them in different positions to where they were 'brought up' in the ressies.

Reg was mostly a forward (although I acknowledge they tried him as a forward first up in the seniors)
Jesse played both forward and back as well as in the ruck.
Kizza started as a back pocket, as did Smith.
Simon Phillips (remember him?) was a potent small forward in the ressies, yet they played him a lot up the ground.
Sumner has been used mainly in the backline and midfield, yet in his first game they played him as a forward tag.

As for Johnston, I don't see him making it as a backman, not in the short term anyway. While he has done well, and deservedly received praise for his latest game, he hasn't been truly tested by a really good forward yet. I still think he will get done by a clever, bulky forward who knows how to use his body to full advantage. The Reserves have dominated most of their games, and hence dominated most of the possession.

With Campbell Heath, Spangher coming back and LRT, Malceski, Kennelly to be inserted into the seniors backline soon and hence pushing some guys out, he won't be needed as a defender anymore.

Quite possible, though he wouldn't necessarily have to be a "true" KPD. He could be used in a Birchall/Mackie/Gilbert sort of role, even Goddard. A tall HBF who can compete with any HFF in the air, and can pinch-hit as a key defender on certain forwards if absolutely needed. It's a type of player we've never really fostered, all of our HBFs have been pure runners. Having a tall mark-taker with good disposal and some versatility on the HBF can be a very damaging thing to have.

[Hartijon]

Henry is on record as saying "... we are teaching him how to play down back ..." which is what you do with every new kid to the game!

LJ reminds me very much of the Jack Watts style silky athletic FF or CHF who was just superior to all the other kids, right through junior football - tall and agile, great kick for goal so all he had to do in those junior talent squads, was present, mark and goal!

Unfortunately, this does not always immediately translate to senior AFL ... ask the Demons!

Also, he lost a full season with injury, plus they have already had to work to get his head around the necessary changes, and to understand that it is NOT going to just all fall in his lap for him.

To me, he is at the same stage as a first year rookie, and he is going OK! ... still not sure where he ends up playing, but suspect he IS a forward.

Thanks for this.It finally makes sense and it is now obvious what is going on with him. Ironically his success as a junior has probably delayed his debut in the seniors as he has to be taught all those things that the backline teaches you.Accountability,teamwork,giving off to the best option,tackling,zoning, spoiling,gut running to name a few.