2012 vs 2005

[Bloody Hell]

Since the Tippett Thread is finally losing momentum, as a pointless off-season thread let me ask the question...who would win playing the two recent premiership sides against each other?

Would Hall and O'Loughlin tear the 2012 Swans a new arsehole?

Could the 2012 Swans break the 2005 Swans hard tags in the midfield?

Would the 22nd players selected in Parker and Bevan prove the difference?

I've always seen the 2005 Swans as good defense, good forward line and mediocre midfield, while the 2012 Swans is a good defense, good midfield, mediocre forward line...Is there some life lesson there???

Who would win???

[Auntie.Gerald]

i couldnt split it

[Big Al]

2012 by 10 goals... 2005 had Bevan in the side. Game Over :)

[goswannies]

2012 by 10 goals... 2005 had Bevan in the side. Game Over :)

1933 Swans would beat the best side you could assemble from the 2012 & 2005 sides COMBINED! And that included only having one interchange player that would have to be used as a sub ;)

[Frog]

Depends which of the two teams ROK, Goodes, B1 and LRT play for.

[johnno]

2012: 14.17.101
2005: 13. 8. 86

2012 team can create more scoring opportunities than 2005 team but spray a lot more shots at goal. They should however have scored more to get over the line.

[ugg]

Filling some time in on a rainy day.

Some great hypothetical matchups

- Kirk to zero in onto JPK from the very first bounce. Arguably the 2 greatest Swans inside midfielders of the Roos-Longmire era to clash head to head.
- A Johnson-ROK ('05 version) would be an interesting duel, with ROK's licence to run up great distances up the field to be matched by the competitiveness and aerobic capacity of AJ.
- The battle of the Nicks - Smith on Davis
- Crouch on Jetta, while Crouchy won't be able to match Lewis at full flight, you can be damned sure he won't allow him the space that Jetta loves.
- While there is a potential for a mind-bending LRT on LRT matchup, it is more likely that the '05 LRT (CHB) would go on Reid (CHF), leaving the task of marking '12 LRT to Leapin' Leo. If '12 Goodes plays in the forward line, a mouthwatering battle with B2 should eventuate.
- Who would play on '05 Goodes in the midfield? Will the task be left to the tagging role of Bird or will the tackle hungry '12 version of ROK be able to use his bigger physique to match up on Goodes? Bird might be required to be the forward tag to dampen the effectiveness of Kennelly.
- Fosdike on Hannebery - both have played many of their best games at the MCG.
- Richards/Grundy v Hall/Micky O - Longmire has often preferred to assign Reg onto the opposition's better forward allowing Ted to come across as third man up if required. So it's more likely that Grundy-Hall & Richards-O'Loughlin matchups would eventuate than vice-versa.
- Horse vs Roos - How would Roos set up his team against Longmire's 'slingshot footy'? What tactics would Horse attempt to free up Jetta against the tight taggers in the 05 midfield?
Feel free to add more!

[liz]

I reckon you just leave Goodes to play on Goodes. Neither version is particularly strong defensively so they'd probably play off each other a fair bit. The2012 version is stronger, maybe a tad quicker and certainly wiser, but maybe not as agile as the 2005 version. And given the injury interrupted season, not as fit either. Would be an entertaining battle.

[ShockOfHair]

LRT v LRT - I'd like to see that. And Mumford-Pyke v Jolly-Ball.

The thing is the 2005 team actually drove the league to change the rules. Under 2012 rules, IMHO, Team Horse would win with its extra pace. Under 2005 rules I'd still give the 2012 team a chance but Roos' mob better able to shut them down.

[goswannie14]

2012 by 10 goals... 2005 had Bevan in the side. Game Over :)This.

[aardvark]

I reckon the 2005 Eagles were a better team than the 2012 Hawks so my vote goes for 2005.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

1933 Swans would beat the best side you could assemble from the 2012 & 2005 sides COMBINED! And that included only having one interchange player that would have to be used as a sub ;)

I'm not sure the star studded team of the 30's is worth celebrating. Sure in 1933 they won a grandfinal, but a year later the evidence suggests that the same team took bribes to lose a grand final. Can you see today's "Bloods" doing the same?

The sooner that particular "Golden Age" is overshadowed, the better. Why don't we celebrate the 88-90 premiership sides?

Edit : Frog
Source for bribe allegations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Pra..._ref-m114_33-0 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Pratt#cite_ref-m114_33-0)

The Full Points Footy Encyclopedia Of Australian Football Clubs Volume One - John Devaney - Google Books (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=bhgR0V0C4dYC&pg=PA540&lpg=PA540&dq=1934+grand+final+bribes&source=bl&ots=cwtb5oBnZ5&sig=k19_pNsyhfGznu3BEkYXFOZCaCw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xcvcUKTaB8eViQelsYGQDA&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=1934%20grand%20final%20bribes&f=false)

[goswannie14]

I'm not sure the star studded team of the 30's is worth celebrating. Sure in 1933 they won a grandfinal, but a year later the same team took bribes to lose a grand final. Can you see today's "Bloods" doing the same?

The sooner that particular "Golden Age" is overshadowed, the better. Why don't we celebrate the 88-90 premiership sides?

Edit : Frog
Source for bribe allegations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Pra..._ref-m114_33-0 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Pratt#cite_ref-m114_33-0)

The Full Points Footy Encyclopedia Of Australian Football Clubs Volume One - John Devaney - Google Books (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=bhgR0V0C4dYC&pg=PA540&lpg=PA540&dq=1934+grand+final+bribes&source=bl&ots=cwtb5oBnZ5&sig=k19_pNsyhfGznu3BEkYXFOZCaCw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xcvcUKTaB8eViQelsYGQDA&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=1934%20grand%20final%20bribes&f=false)

You seem to be treating allegations as facts. Very dangerous thing to do.

[Velour&Ruffles]

2012: 14.17.101
2005: 13. 8. 86
2012 team can create more scoring opportunities than 2005 team but spray a lot more shots at goal. They should however have scored more to get over the line.

Must have been in that alternate universe 2005 grand final that I didn't see.

[Primmy]

Interesting premise. I voted for the 2012 because I believed we could win. I put that down to the faith I had in all of them, each and every one including the kids as well as the possibility of the unexpected, which made the team less predictable. I also had faith in the fact that each of them had confidence in themselves and their teammates, more so than I had seen for some time. You could see the 'knowledge' of strengths and weaknesses grow game by game in 2012. AJ for one comes to mind. Hanners. Jetts. Sam too. As for Mitch....

Never doubted the second tier of players, didn't worry too much about the forward line because our goals came from everywhere in 2012. Two major ones came from the back line! We also had thrill factor, running power, slingshots. this is not so evident in our 2005 win.

Now I am not discounting 2005. It was brilliant, the players were brilliant, the emotion was as high as the sky. However I have watched 2012 about 10 times in 3 months, I have watched 2005 about 3 times in 7 years.

Perhaps its the expression on NicMal's face, perhaps its MM's honesty, maybe watching Macca search for his family, definitely the brothers over the fence helps define why 2012 is a stand alone moment for the club. Its an amalgamation of them all from the top dog to the pups - one purpose, no passengers.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

You seem to be treating allegations as facts. Very dangerous thing to do.

Thanks for the providing some e-references frog. I was away and missed your PM. I'd also like to mention "A Game of Our Own" by Geoffrey Blainey 2003 and "A National Game" by Rob Hess etal 2008 (both well researched histories).

And you are both correct, my observation was not meant to be understood in legalistic but an historical sense. However I ahve emended my post so it now refers to allegations. I happily acknowledge that no has ever admitted that they took (or paid) bribes to ensure the result.

The remarkable 80+ point turnaround from one year to the next (with almost exactly the same personnel) may well ahve been completely unremarkable. It was however not the only questionable result from the early days of the VFL (and there had been a smell about South since before WWI).

The unusual thing in this case is that the allegations were made by two team mates with very good reputations. Nor were these back-of-the-hand rumours. Reville and Pratt actually confronted team mates over this issue.

And while all the Swans from that game are all now deceased (and therefore unlikely to litigate), it would take Blind-Freddy-like obtuseness to suggest that all was well within that team. Perhaps co-incidentally, there were quite a few changes in playing personel by the time the Swans contested the 1935 grand final (about a third in fact)

As Henry Thoreau once remarked "Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk." :hmmmm2:

[Swansongster]

Filling some time in on a rainy day.

Some great hypothetical matchups

- Kirk to zero in onto JPK from the very first bounce. Arguably the 2 greatest Swans inside midfielders of the Roos-Longmire era to clash head to head.
- A Johnson-ROK ('05 version) would be an interesting duel, with ROK's licence to run up great distances up the field to be matched by the competitiveness and aerobic capacity of AJ.
- The battle of the Nicks - Smith on Davis
- Crouch on Jetta, while Crouchy won't be able to match Lewis at full flight, you can be damned sure he won't allow him the space that Jetta loves.
- While there is a potential for a mind-bending LRT on LRT matchup, it is more likely that the '05 LRT (CHB) would go on Reid (CHF), leaving the task of marking '12 LRT to Leapin' Leo. If '12 Goodes plays in the forward line, a mouthwatering battle with B2 should eventuate.
- Who would play on '05 Goodes in the midfield? Will the task be left to the tagging role of Bird or will the tackle hungry '12 version of ROK be able to use his bigger physique to match up on Goodes? Bird might be required to be the forward tag to dampen the effectiveness of Kennelly.
- Fosdike on Hannebery - both have played many of their best games at the MCG.
- Richards/Grundy v Hall/Micky O - Longmire has often preferred to assign Reg onto the opposition's better forward allowing Ted to come across as third man up if required. So it's more likely that Grundy-Hall & Richards-O'Loughlin matchups would eventuate than vice-versa.
- Horse vs Roos - How would Roos set up his team against Longmire's 'slingshot footy'? What tactics would Horse attempt to free up Jetta against the tight taggers in the 05 midfield?
Feel free to add more!

Great post Ugg.

I'd love to see Teddy and Reg playing on BBBH and Magic. I reckon Grundy would cop one on the chin trying to eliminate Hall's space. Baz would kick a couple of set shots from near 50 after powerful leads but might struggle in a goal square contest. Meanwhile, Micky O' would still manage a couple of snaps from retrieved ground balls despite the attention of Richards who'd probably spoil most of the incomings.

I think it would be pretty close.

2012 Swans 12.9 - 81
2005 Swans 10.11 - 71

[ugg]

I'm surprised no one has been a fence sitter and picked a draw, which assuming this hypothetical match was a Grand Final, would result in a replay the following week, which of course having the same players and coaches involved would invariably lead to another draw, and yet another replay.... ad infinitum.

Swans fans' version of heaven.

[CureTheSane]

Draw :)

[aardvark]

Swans fans' version of heaven.

Swans fans version of multiple coronaries !!

[Frog]

i couldnt split it

I read that as a draw

[Big Al]

2012 would have a tactical advantage since the head coach has a mole in the assistant coaches of the 2005 team.

[Primmy]

We'd have to bring in a few blokes to make up the say 2012 team as they are already playing in the 2005 one. That would be Jude, Goodsey, LRT, so in a perfect world I would be bringing in for 2012 Benny (we'd have to play after he was injury free) for Jude, Tony for LRT, and ..... shoot, ok move Joey to cover Goodsey's spot, shift Luke to cover Joey's spot and put Drey on the bench. Or close this thread and make a cuppa.

[jono2707]

I think Kenny of 2012 would just pip Kenny of 2005. Although a few years slower, he'd also be a few years smarter. He might take a bit longer to get into the winner's huddle, however he'd sing louder and would gesticulate slightly more wildly.

[johnno]

Must have been in that alternate universe 2005 grand final that I didn't see.

ummm.....thats a guess of the scores by my good self, not the actual score from the 2005 grand final!......sheesh.:rolleyes:

[Mountain Man]

We'd have to bring in a few blokes to make up the say 2012 team as they are already playing in the 2005 one. That would be Jude, Goodsey, LRT, so in a perfect world I would be bringing in for 2012 Benny (we'd have to play after he was injury free) for Jude, Tony for LRT, and ..... shoot, ok move Joey to cover Goodsey's spot, shift Luke to cover Joey's spot and put Drey on the bench. Or close this thread and make a cuppa.

.............. And, someone for the 2012 Norm Smith medallist

[R-1]

I think the 2012 team is more talented and just as hard. Love the 05 team for the emotion of breaking the drought but there were some relatively ordinary players in the bottom few positions on that team. 2005 had the better forward line options but I can't see that being decisive. Even if MOL kicked straight.

[Doctor J.]

if MOL kicked straight.

Leo Barry's mark might have been taken by Seaby, who would have had a shot after the siren to reduce the deficit by 6 points.

Sydney win by 18 points!!!!!!

[Cosmic Wizard]

2012, it took real guts, composure, mental toughness, self belief, to come back after Hawthorn was ahead ten minutes into the final term!
They could have just cave in, had a close loss, but stuck though and won!

[mcs]

What a game that would be :) Swannies 2012 by a goal!

[Xie Shan]

Filling some time in on a rainy day.

Some great hypothetical matchups

- Kirk to zero in onto JPK from the very first bounce. Arguably the 2 greatest Swans inside midfielders of the Roos-Longmire era to clash head to head.
- A Johnson-ROK ('05 version) would be an interesting duel, with ROK's licence to run up great distances up the field to be matched by the competitiveness and aerobic capacity of AJ.
- The battle of the Nicks - Smith on Davis
- Crouch on Jetta, while Crouchy won't be able to match Lewis at full flight, you can be damned sure he won't allow him the space that Jetta loves.
- While there is a potential for a mind-bending LRT on LRT matchup, it is more likely that the '05 LRT (CHB) would go on Reid (CHF), leaving the task of marking '12 LRT to Leapin' Leo. If '12 Goodes plays in the forward line, a mouthwatering battle with B2 should eventuate.
- Who would play on '05 Goodes in the midfield? Will the task be left to the tagging role of Bird or will the tackle hungry '12 version of ROK be able to use his bigger physique to match up on Goodes? Bird might be required to be the forward tag to dampen the effectiveness of Kennelly.
- Fosdike on Hannebery - both have played many of their best games at the MCG.
- Richards/Grundy v Hall/Micky O - Longmire has often preferred to assign Reg onto the opposition's better forward allowing Ted to come across as third man up if required. So it's more likely that Grundy-Hall & Richards-O'Loughlin matchups would eventuate than vice-versa.
- Horse vs Roos - How would Roos set up his team against Longmire's 'slingshot footy'? What tactics would Horse attempt to free up Jetta against the tight taggers in the 05 midfield?
Feel free to add more!

Oh wow, some mouth-watering duels there. I think 2012 Nick Smith would have the measure of 2005 Nick Davis so there would be no repeat of his heroics against Geelong. I think the 2012 side has the superior run, but the forward line would struggle against the 2005 backline, who were even more miserly than Ted and Grundy when matched up against more dangerous forwards.