Sling shot footy !!

[Auntie.Gerald]

ok

so the rounds pre the Pies show some signs of our exciting sling shot 2012 footy but in all honesty until fri night at the 'G' it appeared to be a little lost on our lads.

Then the heavens opened against the Pies and we flooded forward in attack like our best footy in the 2012 season. The hard running by our midfield and HFF breaking free of their opposite number was almost embarrassing for the Pies coaching dept!

Where had this football gone ?

Why did we fail to make this happen in the previous rounds ?

Is it back for 2013 season here on ?

OR was the backline and midfield of the Pies so down on quality players that we cant compare ?

I mean we had no Mattner, LRT, Shaw, AJ - so they could have played the same expansive flood forward footy into space, test our backline and midfield like we did but they didnt !!!

Why couldnt the Pies match us in this area ?

Have we started to hit peak fitness finally and makes those gut busting runs to expose compressed back lines?

im fired UP !!!!!

:hmmm

[Rod_]

Not sure if we have peaked as there are a lot of players to come back into to the side. However I do agree that we did look better and put a big space between the top 5 and the rest.

Forward line will improve and I expect that the backs will also. Our on baller's are considered in the top echelon. Still looking for improvement as we consolidate our place in the top 4!

Very pleased to make the Pies look pedestrian and may we do the same to the bombers!

Rod_

[mariachi]

I wonder whether the larger ground at the MCG makes it easier to play that style of footy... There was acres of space there for the lads to run into. And run they did! Nice to see the sort of form that won us the flag last year!

[Auntie.Gerald]

Not sure if we have peaked as there are a lot of players to come back into to the side. However I do agree that we did look better and put a big space between the top 5 and the rest.

Forward line will improve and I expect that the backs will also. Our on baller's are considered in the top echelon. Still looking for improvement as we consolidate our place in the top 4!

Very pleased to make the Pies look pedestrian and may we do the same to the bombers!

Rod_

just to clarify Rod

"peak fitness" not peak all round performance etc

[jetts32]

It was great to see! Exciting football! But against teams like Geelong and especially Hawthorn, I think they anticpated it a bit and had defenders waiting back like Lake and Gibson, which happened in the 1st quarter of the grand final, until we manned up Gibson and held him accountable, against teams like hawthorn and Geelong I think we'll need to all man up and make there backbone accountable with our mids still hard running through both sides of the ground.
Otherwise, if teams like collingwood fall for it, sling shot away! It's exciting to watch!

[mcs]

ok

so the rounds pre the Pies show some signs of our exciting sling shot 2012 footy but in all honesty until fri night at the 'G' it appeared to be a little lost on our lads.

Then the heavens opened against the Pies and we flooded forward in attack like our best footy in the 2012 season. The hard running by our midfield and HFF breaking free of their opposite number was almost embarrassing for the Pies coaching dept!

Where had this football gone ?

Why did we fail to make this happen in the previous rounds ?

Is it back for 2013 season here on ?

OR was the backline and midfield of the Pies so down on quality players that we cant compare ?

I mean we had no Mattner, LRT, Shaw, AJ - so they could have played the same expansive flood forward footy into space, test our backline and midfield like we did but they didnt !!!

Why couldnt the Pies match us in this area ?

Have we started to hit peak fitness finally and makes those gut busting runs to expose compressed back lines?

im fired UP !!!!!

:hmmm

Firstly, AG your enthusiasm is more then commendable! If only our dragons were half as good as the Swans this year, you'd have no time left at all to do anything but post your interesting takes on footy :)

The pies simply didn't/couldn't/wouldn't work hard enough to counter our hard spread, and general gut running. If for some wayward kicking, and some poor final options at times, we could of easily beat the pies by 15 goals on Friday night. I know the pies had some players out, but its clear from the prelim and this game, that under Buckley they really struggle to contain our brand of footy when we play well. That will be the same for a lot of teams, but so far this year, teams have managed to find a way to really take Jetta out of it and when he is quiet, we struggle to get it going.

Watching on Friday night, it really looked like the Pies were struggling fitness wise to match us, and their midfield simply could not go with ours (especially Swan - he looked a shadow of the player he has been previously). But we also smashed them in terms of defensive pressure, and every time they looked up there were Swans swanning in from everywhere to put pressure on. That was what impressed me most on Friday night. We need to continue it from here on though, and hope we can continue to play slingshot footy to hurt teams.

The other big bonus on Friday was just how clean generally we were with our hands. Our current midfield group, when on song are a joy to watch in terms of their ability to extract the ball and then move it fast by hand and exceptionally cleanly as well. Essendon on Saturday night will be a very good test - they have been excellent defensively, and our midfield will need to provide strong support to what will be a depleted forward line most likely.

At least after, Rd 12 we will have a genuine alternative method to our play, once Tippett is in the team. It might mean, that when the slingshot footy isn't going so well, the bombing forward we seem to regress to might actually be more successful, as we will have at least 2 or 3 (assuming Pyke stays in the team and we continue to rotate ruckman up forward) big guys up there, all capable of taking contested marks.

[mcs]

It was great to see! Exciting football! But against teams like Geelong and especially Hawthorn, I think they anticpated it a bit and had defenders waiting back like Lake and Gibson, which happened in the 1st quarter of the grand final, until we manned up Gibson and held him accountable, against teams like hawthorn and Geelong I think we'll need to all man up and make there backbone accountable with our mids still hard running through both sides of the ground.
Otherwise, if teams like collingwood fall for it, sling shot away! It's exciting to watch!

Our issue against geelong was that our midfield was simply not accountable, and let Geelong's midfield have far too much space (like Collingwood let us have too much space on Friday Night) when they had the ball. Geelong used the fact that we take a chance during contested play (in terms of players pushing forward hard, even before the ball is secured), and managed to time and time again punish us for it.

We will be helped against Hawthorn once we have Tippett in the forward line. A lot tougher for Gibson to play the lone ranger down back when they have Tippett/Reid/Goodes/Pyke/Mumford to man up on down there. If you make Gibson play accountable football on an opponent, as was shown in the Grand Final, you can soon make him look silly.

After the game on Friday night, I felt a lot more comfortable with where we are at this season. Whilst we didn't get many scoring shots against freo, with the exception of the last quarter, I generally thought we were pretty good. And on Friday, there is no doubting that we were excellent. With a few key players missing, and Tippett to come in, there is only upside from here.

A very big 2 weeks coming up however - beat the Bombers and the Crows and we will be perfectly placed to finish top 4. Beat 1 of them, and we are going well. Lose both and we will be right on the knife edge. The next 2 weeks can really set us up beautifully for the rest of the season.

[Rod_]

just to clarify Rod

"peak fitness" not peak all round performance etc

Peak noted, and clarity agreed.

[Auntie.Gerald]

:) Rod

:) MCS

[alt_mattr]

Without diminishing the efforts of the Swans players, who are the primary agents of their own success, I do think Buckley is an inferior coach to Malthouse at this stage. The Pies were out-played, but I also think they were out-coached.

Other coaches have found a way to dampen the sling-shot, but Buckley had no answers.

[liz]

Interesting to hear Rocket partlally defend Collingwood's performance with a comment that they "won" most of the key indicators -like clearances, inside 50s, tackles. I seem to remember Brad Scott trotting out a similar line after we comfortably saw off North last year, not to mention the media's summation of the GF (albeit that we weren't the dominant team throughout that game).

When will it occur to some that maybe their key indicators aren't so key after all?

[Just like to add that Rocket wasn't trying to take anything away from Sydney - he acknowledged the Swans were great, especially on the spread.]

[nicko18]

When will it occur to some that maybe their key indicators aren't so key after all?


I think you may have missed the fox footy's pre-game analysis of supercoach scores where 4 random pies players had +53 points on 4 of our random players, otherwise you wouldn't be so sceptical of these "key indicators"

[liz]

I think you may have missed the fox footy's pre-game analysis of supercoach scores where 4 random pies players had +53 points on 4 of our random players, otherwise you wouldn't be so sceptical of these "key indicators"

I watched it. It was quite bizarre. It's just another illustration of how much over-analysis there is of the sport, particularly of possession statistics. I realise they try to factor "effectiveness" into some of these quantitive measures but most of it is just meaningless.

[swanspant12]

Sling shot footy is becoming the new age modern gameplan being executed by the top clubs, ala Fremantle, Hawthorn, Geelong.

Get numbers back to help the defence, hunt and contest the footy and spread in numbers on the rebound. Such a simple gameplan but if executed with skilful footballers can and has proven to be the best ala our GF win last year.

In Jimmy's opinion, every club should take note of how we play and the type of football we execute.

To be honest I am extremely worried if Jetta leaves. He is the icing on the sling shot footy cake and if he's down on input we lack that run from the back half to the forward line.

Must, must, sign him up.

[Bloody Hell]

Teams that rely on the "forward press", like Collingwood, are really sucked in by the style of footy the Swans play. I would think it's pretty obvious and another reason why Buckley is a @@@@ coach.

Watching the pre and post match, Roos said as much in the most politically correct way he could. Reading between the lines it's clear he thinks he can't coach.

[Auntie.Gerald]

i suppose it is like business re key indicators

ie no money in the bank no business

no points on the board no win

but what leads to these outcomes can sometimes puzzle the mind - even though every stockbroker or analyst thinks they are right - sometimes they are not !

in fact just look at the prediction charts of the top 5 analysts in each of the papers ie the top 5 picks for 2013 ! they are rarely right re the All Ords or the top stocks - yet they have all the "key indicators" right in front of them !

PS - when Freeo played us they had some great stats and they hammered our forward 50m but with such little effectiveness until the last qtr...........I thought to myself how did Freeo loose the game, how did they put them self in such a great position with forward entries but not convert............then I also wondered when watching the game.....how did we not slow their unbridled momentum in the last qtr !

Longmire with all the key indicators at his disposal could not stem the flow in the last qtr against the Dockers !

[DamY]

I think you may have missed the fox footy's pre-game analysis of supercoach scores where 4 random pies players had +53 points on 4 of our random players, otherwise you wouldn't be so sceptical of these "key indicators"

The only ones that seem to matter to the Swans are tackles, defensive pressure (which I don't think are measured) and as mentioned before by Longmire, pressure acts (grand final). I am sure they'd also measure defensive spread and rebound spread aka 2-way running but that isn't measured by Champion Data (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't do those Fantasy things). Oh! And disposal efficiency and goal kicking efficiency I am sure would be measured too.

[Triple B]

It's hilarious watching Fox come up with a different angle and formula to predict the result of games in their pre-game fluff.

Remember last years 'Formula for Success'? It was quite a funny ad with Kingy, Johnno, Parko and Huddo, but the formula itself which predicts '97% of all winners' or some such garbage got the punt mid year after a month of teams losing the stats, yet winning the games.

I predict (with 97% accuracy) that the bunkem served up as analysis on Friday night using Supercoach scores will be gone by the bye....

[Auntie.Gerald]

Barcelona in football have as one of their 3 indicators of success - "winning the ball back within 3 seconds"

[dimelb]

Teams that rely on the "forward press", like Collingwood, are really sucked in by the style of footy the Swans play. I would think it's pretty obvious and another reason why Buckley is a @@@@ coach.

Watching the pre and post match, Roos said as much in the most politically correct way he could. Reading between the lines it's clear he thinks he can't coach.
The Footy Almanac has an outstanding article on the Preliminary Final written by Matt O'Connor, a Collingwood diehard. He goes into detail about the Pies' forward press and the Swans' response, namely Jetta. It's a terrific read. If you can't see it online it's worth buying the book just for this article. Sums up the changing game.

[EskisLeftBoot]

At least after, Rd 12 we will have a genuine alternative method to our play, once Tippett is in the team. It might mean, that when the slingshot footy isn't going so well, the bombing forward we seem to regress to might actually be more successful, as we will have at least 2 or 3 (assuming Pyke stays in the team and we continue to rotate ruckman up forward) big guys up there, all capable of taking contested marks.

Spot on.

I really believe this single fact will determine the possibilities of our season. Kurt will bring one single additional ingredient to our attack and defence: diversity.

As of Round 13 we will have another 200cm+ player with real physical presence, great hands, experience and determination. The Hawks are so excited about Lake, but he is close to the end of his career. Geelong are similarly excited by Blicavs, who is but a babe. Compared to Tippett, who has both presence and games under the belt. And with those skills he can move to any spot along the spine.

And the real beneficiary is Sam Reid. And Lewis Jetta. Because Kurt may well not take a single mark for the rest of the year, but that will just mean more opportunity for Sam as the second target, or for Lewis as players sag off him ready for the long bomb (at which point he can take off and break the 50 with a long goal). Diversity, variety, options.

Oh and as for the Mummy v Pyke v Tippett v Reid debate - lets not forget that LRT is the unlucky one already.

[Bloody Hell]

Oh and as for the Mummy v Pyke v Tippett v Reid debate - lets not forget that LRT is the unlucky one already.

I can comfortably fit all those in the team.

Tippett permanent FF - LRT down back - Mummy and Pyke keep doing what they're doing - Reid plays as a high CHF.

LRT is unlucky because he's injured, not because he wouldn't be in the team.

[liz]

I can comfortably fit all those in the team.

Tippett permanent FF - LRT down back - Mummy and Pyke keep doing what they're doing - Reid plays as a high CHF.

LRT is unlucky because he's injured, not because he wouldn't be in the team.

I am not sure about putting both LRT and Tippett into a team that already has Mumford and Pyke (and Reid) - not unless LRT is there to replace either Ted or Reg. Against the Hawks, it would have been helpful to have LRT as another tall defender, but I am not sure you'd want to go into many games with three genuine tall defenders. Add two genuine rucks and two pretty tall forwards and we risk losing mobility. Bear in mind that to fit two additional talls into the team that played on Friday, you need to take two others out. In the short term Everitt might be one of those (though we hope Johnson will be back to take that spot next year). Who else? Morton? One of the midfield runners?

[ShockOfHair]

Hadn't heard anyone mention this before. Buckley view on the slingshot:

"I don't know what their [the Swans] endurance profile is, but from the outside in it looks like they've got six, seven, eight elite endurance runners that can run at pace up and back," Buckley said.

"We don't have the capacity to match that at the moment with our personnel . . . if we make it a running battle it's probably going to be harder for us to win.

Lukewarm Pies feeling the heat (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/lukewarm-pies-feeling-the-heat-20130528-2n9o4.html#ixzz2Ue1Frqq3)

From the Pies POV you're wondering what was the point of Arizona?

[Triple B]

Hadn't heard anyone mention this before. Buckley view on the slingshot:

"I don't know what their [the Swans] endurance profile is, but from the outside in it looks like they've got six, seven, eight elite endurance runners that can run at pace up and back," Buckley said.

"We don't have the capacity to match that at the moment with our personnel . . . if we make it a running battle it's probably going to be harder for us to win.

Lukewarm Pies feeling the heat (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/lukewarm-pies-feeling-the-heat-20130528-2n9o4.html#ixzz2Ue1Frqq3)

From the Pies POV you're wondering what was the point of Arizona?

Now if it was Essendon he was talking about, there would be massive innuendo and equally massive hysteria in the media.

Just sayin'...

[RogueSwan]

... but I am not sure you'd want to go into many games with three genuine tall defenders. Add two genuine rucks and two pretty tall forwards and we risk losing mobility. ...
I wouldn't have thought of Reid as un-mobile (is that a word?) but I can still see your arguement. I could also see LRT, Reg and Ted working well together. With LRT and Reg taking the first two big forwards Ted could intercept to his hearts content.:smile:

[Matimbo]

At the G on Fri night I was in seats near the fence and I really noticed that the Pies players were not talking to each other much. Plus the obvious stuff like, not manning up, not chasing, not hitting easy short pass targets, was there fall all to see. I think they were pretty flat from the week before.

On the other hand, when down my end of the ground the Swans talk was loud and often. Macca was really directing the defence from the HB line. e.g. about 3-4 mins before Jetta's sling shot goal, he was yelling at the backs to drag their opponents down the ground which set up the opportunity for Jetts ... just great to watch it all unfold.

[Bloody Hell]

I am not sure about putting both LRT and Tippett into a team that already has Mumford and Pyke (and Reid) - not unless LRT is there to replace either Ted or Reg. Against the Hawks, it would have been helpful to have LRT as another tall defender, but I am not sure you'd want to go into many games with three genuine tall defenders. Add two genuine rucks and two pretty tall forwards and we risk losing mobility. Bear in mind that to fit two additional talls into the team that played on Friday, you need to take two others out. In the short term Everitt might be one of those (though we hope Johnson will be back to take that spot next year). Who else? Morton? One of the midfield runners?

If you were arguing AJ vs LRT I'd be there with you. But you're not.

Imagine being the 3rd tall at the start of the match and seeing LRT walking towards you.....Will it be a good day or a bad day?

P.s If the whole list was available I'd image Grundy and LRT would hold the key posts, with Richards the third tall.....which is worse for the third tall IMHO....but better for the Swans, in both cases.