Big Whitey

[swanspant12]

I just want to congratulate one of my favourite Bloods on his performance on saturday. Worked hard all day, lead, tackled, kicked a few goals and had a terrific game to stick it up the club who said he's a dud. Full credit to Whitey. He's been from one game in the seniors and the scapegoat after a loss and came in and given his all. He's been dropped and given his all at reserves. Whatever is asked of Whitey he cops it on the chin and works hard. No sulking. No being gifted games. A great team player with a wonderful attitude. Will probably move on at the year's end but whatever he does, he'll always have a soft spot as one of my favourite swannies.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I d

[Primmy]

I love the big galloot, can't help it. So proud of him. Hope he keeps a spot, Mummy's injury will possibly help?

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I don't think anyone's ever questioned his talent, in fact his manifest talent is probably the cause of much of the frustration expressed on this site. The problem is that this talent has never seemed to have been matched by intent/determination/desire (cal it what you will).
I suspect that the fact that his best game in several years came against a team which so comprehensively and publicly rejected him will be seen by many as a unique circumstance. And as such unlikely to sway many people's attitude on RWO . . . . . unless he backs it up against Port.

[dimelb]

Hope springs eternal ...
and sometimes pays off.

[aardvark]

That's the first time i have seen him look like he knows what he's doing. It needs to happen a few more times before I become a believer.

[Dosser]

His skill and ability is undoubted. The problem is that he STILL cannot use his body to outmanouvre and opponent. I love watching him play his best and was cheering him on during the game. His problem is that when one-on-one with a defender, he chooses to try to reach around the defender to mark the ball, rather than use that massive frame of his to move the defender out of the way. It drives me crazy because he could be anything!
By the way, I think he always plays his best games just before his contract is up...

[bondy]

That's the first time i have seen him look like he knows what he's doing.

Spot on. And I loved it

[wolftone57]

I just want to congratulate one of my favourite Bloods on his performance on saturday. Worked hard all day, lead, tackled, kicked a few goals and had a terrific game to stick it up the club who said he's a dud. Full credit to Whitey. He's been from one game in the seniors and the scapegoat after a loss and came in and given his all. He's been dropped and given his all at reserves. Whatever is asked of Whitey he cops it on the chin and works hard. No sulking. No being gifted games. A great team player with a wonderful attitude. Will probably move on at the year's end but whatever he does, he'll always have a soft spot as one of my favourite swannies.

I had a tear in my eye when he kicked that goal on the run and the stupid commentators called it a fluke. He does that sort of thing in the Twos all the time. He is really respected and loved by the kids in the Twos. He encourages them and gives them confidence all the time. He also protects them. Jesse is a real team man but the problem has been his confidence and the fact he is not a natural at some things, like game awareness. He has worked very hard on all his game and he does what the coaches ask every time. I hope he can continue at this standard because if anyone deserves success it is this bloke. He is very well liked at the club too.

[stellation]

I think at some point you have to acknowledge that it shows a bit of heart to bust a gut week in, week out in the reserves knowing that you're a fair way down the pecking order. Point to prove game or not, when the team needed him he was ready and he delivered. I know some will disagree, but I thought he did the same in his previous run for the year when he was brought in to ruck.

He pulled off some big plays that that would have meant a lot to him personally, but I loved that he stayed true to form and saved his biggest grins and celebrations for his teammates' goals.

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The problem is that he STILL cannot use his body to outmanouvre and opponent.
I must admit, I don't really recall seeing that in this game; I'm pretty sure he took a couple of marks that were that type of contest (the mark he ended up kicking a behind from in front and the mark to turn over from an Adelaide kick-in that ended up in a goal to McGlynn), I don't recall him really being outmarked in a contest like that?

[Melbournehammer]

i too think he has been - in my view unfairly - seen as the scapegoat for a couple of our worse games over the past two seasons. i am really pleased for him and hope he gets another couple of games.

i would expect he will be first player out again but there remains a lot of love for him amongst swans fans and i will always be one of those who hopes he continues to do well.

whenever you hear that someone is consistently too good at neafl level they come up and do well enough. it has been the case that jesse has done more than well enough to deserve a run and in the face of a coaching staff that seem to take him on as the last player on first player off, his commitment has been very good.

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I think at some point you have to acknowledge that it shows a bit of heart to bust a gut week in, week out in the reserves knowing that you're a fair way down the pecking order. Point to prove game or not, when the team needed him he was ready and he delivered. I know some will disagree, but I thought he did the same in his previous run for the year when he was brought in to ruck.

He pulled off some big plays that that would have meant a lot to him personally, but I loved that he stayed true to form and saved his biggest grins and celebrations for his teammates' goals.

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I must admit, I don't really recall seeing that in this game; I'm pretty sure he took a couple of marks that were that type of contest (the mark he ended up kicking a behind from in front and the mark to turn over from an Adelaide kick-in that ended up in a goal to McGlynn), I don't recall him really being outmarked in a contest like that?

just on this point - big bad barry really outmarked someone using his body. reid certainly doesnt outmark using his body. are they failures - many here say the critical thing is that they are not being outmarked themselves - and that really hasnt happened in the two games he has played this year.

anyway i am just pleased for him that he has shown that he can play at this level again

[wolftone57]

Jesse took two very good contested marks Saturday, look at the replay folks, he also nearly took a screamer. I am sad that he has become the whipping boy due to his own under-confidence. It seems to me that what we and others have done to him could only erode his confidence even more. I also think that he has battled and come out the other side and seems to have the will to make it now. The problem as I see it is that he never really believed before. I will remind you of Teddy in 2010, he was at the crossroads, it could have been the end, down on confidence, playing like crap. But after going back to the Twos and getting some confidence back, helped I have no doubt by a Sports Professional, he is now in the All Australian team.

Confidence is a funny thing it can desert us when we need it most. All too often I have seen people of great ability fall by the way because nobody took the time to say you are a really great person you really deserve this. Just to say that can inspire a person. Jesse YOU are a really GREAT person and YOU really DESERVE to PLAY AFL.

[ShockOfHair]

He took 7 marks yesterday, more than any other Swans, and 2 of the Swans' 8 contested marks.

Would be ironic if White has a better season than Tippett.

[Dosser]

Dont get me wrong, I love watching Jesse play and he is a hulk of a man - at one stage he was bending over facing towards the camera and I couldnt help but comment about his anvil shoulders. He took a couple of fantastic marks on the weekend, which I loved. He kicks straight and is a great team man. However, there was one occasion at least where he was in a contested contest and didnt try to put any body on his opponent, with that frame he should have edged him out and taken the mark.
i reiterate, I LOVE watching Jesse at his best, but his best is too infrequent to have me that excited. He has 10x the skill of Walsh but Walsh is prepared to try to physically intimidate, which is what the coaches are looking for in that position.
And by the way, I didnt realise that being a goold bloke means that you deserve to play AFL.

[Primmy]

Lets hope the damage to Mummy gives Jesse the opportunity to string some games together and give himself the springboard into seniors. And to thumb his nose at Adelaide for being so damned short sighted.

[erica]

I still think a major weakness in White's game is his awareness and anticipation. He often can't read the play like other players can.

[Auntie.Gerald]

The "ten thousand hour rule" is once again starting to look like it exists

Jesse is starting to come up on the 10,000hrs - I am still excited for him !!!

Who knows he may actually make it in the end and Reid ends up as a our key back ?

that would be a little strange

.........sort of like a Blue Sun Rise !!

Sunrise from Space (HD) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf4LJdQdEZI)

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or maybe it doesnt exist

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20121114-gladwells-10000-hour-rule-myth ??

[Rod_]

More games or game time = confidence!

Needs to feel part of the team!

getting there and agree played well on the weekend

Rod_

[BSA5]

With Mumford out for a month, he has a chance to string some good games together. It's fair to say this will probably be the last chance of his career. Here's hoping he takes it, if for no other reason than it helps him find another club next year.

[Bloodthirsty]

OK I was going to start a new thread about Swans look-a-likes for a bit of entertainment over the bye, but I might as well just post a Jesse White look-a-like here.

This guy is an American actor (Texas Chainsaw Massacre): Eric Balfour - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0050156/?ref_=sr_1d)

The likeness is even more amazing because White has a very unique look. This actor is really tall too.

[graemed]

I would like to say that first off I admire the fact that despite limited opportunities, white was able to make such a strong contribution last week.
I believe his issues are that unlike the majority of players his best and worst games are to close together.
This year against hawthorn his inability to affect contests and get possessions for himself or those around was in stark contrast to Saturday's match where because he was not required to do ruck duties he was able to play out of the goal square and lead up the ground. A task he performed well. For probably the first time in my memory he also did the 1%ers that have been so lacking in his game.

He made 2nd and 3rd efforts when he didn't take the mark, he made shepherds and passed the ball off to those in better positions. He chased and made tackles. Contrast this game with his efforts in the hawthorn game and you get a picture of what frustrates and annoys supporters who wish him well.

[Beerman]

Like others, I'm really happy for Jesse that he had such a great game. Used his athleticism well and made an impact - probably the best game I have seen him play, and one of his most physical. I really hope this is his "breakout game" and that he can build some more fantastic games on this. He still has plenty of time - look at Pods, for example.

Like Dosser, I'd still like to see him "bustle" a bit more. That's what I loved about his goal on the run. Not just the speed and finish, but the way he worked the opposition player off the ball. More please!! I wonder if his problem is that he's too nice and worried about unfairly infringing. There was one moment where he was chasing an Adelaide player who was about to take possession of the ball, and Jesse just held his arms out waiting for him to pick it up so he could tackle him. The tackle was good, but I'd prefer to see him work the player off the ball. I'd be happy if he gave away a couple of frees per game if he did that a bit more.

[dimelb]

OK I was going to start a new thread about Swans look-a-likes for a bit of entertainment over the bye, but I might as well just post a Jesse White look-a-like here.

This guy is an American actor (Texas Chainsaw Massacre): Eric Balfour - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0050156/?ref_=sr_1d)

The likeness is even more amazing because White has a very unique look. This actor is really tall too.

Remarkable likeness!

[Primmy]

I would like to thank the coach who embedded some self belief into Jesse, and other fringe players. Being believed in makes a big difference, and we can see it in Jesse. The mantra that even if you have a lousy game you can still contribute to the team looks to be taking hold.

[Swansinger]

Six things we learned from round 11 - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-10/six-things-we-learned-from-round-11)

4. The Crows should have taken Jesse White
Adelaide could have landed Jesse White along with the Swans' first-round pick (no. 23) for Kurt Tippett, but the Crows eventually turned the deal down. You can safely bet they would have wanted him on Saturday night. Concerns over his ability at the top level were alleviated with an outstanding three-goal, 13-disposal, seven-mark effort as the Swans' last-choice tall forward. The 25-year-old has had trouble consistently producing quality games throughout his career, his talent was on full show against Adelaide. He can play ? make no mistake about that. White's goal from a tight angle in the third quarter, after outrunning an opponent was brilliant. - Harry Thring

[barry]

There is a lot of love for White at the moment, but Ive heard both Tippet, Reid and Jetta will be avaliable for the Port game, so I think White will lose his place.

[stellation]

There is a lot of love for White at the moment, but Ive heard both Tippet, Reid and Jetta will be avaliable for the Port game, so I think White will lose his place.

I'd feel for him if he doesn't get a second run after it. I know he was just treading water until players became available, and I'd rather have us fully healthy, but I can't recall the last time Sam put on as dominant a forward performance as Jesse did against Adelaide.

I know folks say "he's had his chances", but sheesh he doesn't get a lot of luck with those chances and gets dropped to make way for a guy who's definitely ahead of him on the list but arguably not on form.

[Jewels]

White was terrific on the weekend, no doubt about it. He came out and played like I expected Adelaide would - like he/they had something to prove, but many times before he has looked like that was the breakout game and it was all going to click only for the same old Jesse to re-emerge the next week.
I do shake my head in wonderment at those on here that say he has not been given a fair shake, he has played 58 games in under 6 seasons, 51 of those in 2009/10/11 so to say he wasn't given as good a go as Reid to prove himself is just plain wrong and to say that there is some kind of vendetta against him is ridiculous. Does anybody here really think that Longmire and co would NOT play the best available team?

Anyway, lets hope for his and the teams sake that it has all finally come together for him, because being able to bring in someone like last Saturdays Jesse whenever we had an injury or even to just mix it up a bit, would be fantastic and very, very scary for any opposition.

[Captain]

White is a very good forward. They just ruin him by persiting with making him play in the ruck.

The first time he gets a game at FF and look what he delivers!

[liz]

White is a very good forward. They just ruin him by persiting with making him play in the ruck.

The first time he gets a game at FF and look what he delivers!

The counter argument is that making him play in the ruck has helped him to realise the level of fitness he needs to be an effective senior player, not to mention given him another string to his bow.

[ned]

In fairness Jesse does have a better average goals per game than any other swan this year...

[ScottH]

In fairness Jesse does have a better average goals per game than any other swan this year...

Can't deny that.

[Melbournehammer]

The counter argument is that making him play in the ruck has helped him to realise the level of fitness he needs to be an effective senior player, not to mention given him another string to his bow.

I think playing in the ruck has been good for him because it has given him more opportunities to have a second crack at the ball and often against lumbering ruckmen rather than the mobile key position defender that he usually gets in the forward line, and he often clears the ball once it hits the ground in contests around wings and uses his body well in those circumstances. He is also pretty athletic in that he can run in a straight line pretty quick and deliver a long kick in those circumstances. He really isnt too bad at that sort of thing. But he does struggle in centre circle contests as he cannot get quite high enough when his opponent also has a good run at the ball.

He is fourth choice for a reason but that doesn't mean he cant play and i really wish people would stop declaring him a spud.

[Bloodthirsty]

Luke Darcy and Damien Barrett on Access All Areas praise him a lot. They raise the consistency issue but other than that it's all about the strength of our talls. The widely held consensus is that Adelaide are stupid for turning him down.

He may have been inconsistent in the past, but the past means nothing and most people here would want to know if he can be a consistent player from now on, given all the development he's had. Only more games from now will reveal this. Only then will this debate be settled.

[Alan]

There is a lot of love for White at the moment, but Ive heard both Tippet, Reid and Jetta will be avaliable for the Port game, so I think White will lose his place.

One other theory might see White stay in and ruck, as KT won't have the fitness to do ruck and resting FF. In fact he may be the sub and come on for a quarter and a half or so.

[graemed]

[QUOTE=Bloodthirsty;613897]Luke Darcy and Damien Barrett on Access All Areas praise him a lot. They raise the consistency issue but other than that it's all about the strength of our talls. The widely held consensus is that Adelaide are stupid for turning him down.
/QUOTE]

Do you have a link for this I can't seem to find it on the afl website.

[Cheer_Cheer]

We seem to be so good at recycling other teams misfiring players.. Why not try it on one of our own :tongue:

[barry]

Tippet will have the fitness. In fact his fitness base should be higher than anyone on our list, since he's had nearly 9 months of training, training, training and no niggling injuries to cope with.

The only thing he wont have is match-fitness. Which means he may not pick up the pace right away, but he should easily last out the match.

[Bloodthirsty]

[QUOTE=Bloodthirsty;613897]Luke Darcy and Damien Barrett on Access All Areas praise him a lot. They raise the consistency issue but other than that it's all about the strength of our talls. The widely held consensus is that Adelaide are stupid for turning him down.
/QUOTE]

Do you have a link for this I can't seem to find it on the afl website.


Make the switch, Bombers - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/video/2013-06-11/make-the-switch-bombers)

[GoSouth33]

I've finally been able to do a post......don't know what's been going but I notice others have had problems as well.
Anyhow, for what it's worth, I reckon Big Jesse should head to GWS for next season and beyond. It's criminal that they are screaming out for big bodies and we have him running around in the two's kicking bags of goals and occasionally promoting him when there's an injury. I think he'd go well in the Giants list.

[Bloodthirsty]

OK I was going to start a new thread about Swans look-a-likes for a bit of entertainment over the bye, but I might as well just post a Jesse White look-a-like here.

This guy is an American actor (Texas Chainsaw Massacre): Eric Balfour - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0050156/?ref_=sr_1d)

The likeness is even more amazing because White has a very unique look. This actor is really tall too.


Remarkable likeness!

I know! I hope more people check out Jesse's doppelg?nger. Crazy.

[DK_]

For probably the first time in my memory he also did the 1%ers that have been so lacking in his game.

He made 2nd and 3rd efforts when he didn't take the mark, he made shepherds and passed the ball off to those in better positions. He chased and made tackles. Contrast this game with his efforts in the hawthorn game and you get a picture of what frustrates and annoys supporters who wish him well.

Couldn't agree more. There were two parts of Jesse's weekend's performance that I really loved (actually there were more, but these are the ones I loved the most).

The first one was obvious - the Q3 goal. It was a great effort to get the ball in the first place, a real display of pace and determination to burn off the Adelaide player and a kick at full pace from a tight angle which any of the goal-sneaks in the AFL would be proud to show their grandkids! I can't get tired of watching repeats of it!

The second one was Everitt's goal. Everitt handpassed to White. It didn't quite stick and was gathered by the Adelaide player, who White tackled, knocking the ball loose. He then dives from the ground to knock it to Everitt's advantages and then jumps up to hold off the Adelaide player cutting off Everitt. He didn't stop him for long, but it was all the time that Everitt needed to charge through and slot a goal from 50. A chain of 1%s that resulted directly in a goal! I hadn't really noticed until Saturday's game how much work the Swans big men do off the ball. If there's a Parker, Jack or Hannebery charging through traffic with the ball, there's almost always a Pyke, Mumford, or White just off-camera holding back would be tacklers. Particularly Pyke. He's made an art-form of it. It's the sort of thing which doesn't turn up on stats and doesn't get praise, but makes our team what it is.

Here's hoping the big man gets another shot at it next week and consolidates with another fantastic performance.

[giant]

Good luck to him, he was trying his guts out & produced a marvelous game - hope we see more of it.

He's unquestionably good enough to be in the best 22 for a number of clubs - unfortunately, most of those clubs would prefer to try their luck with a talented youngster than a mid-age who hasn't quite clinched it. And he still isn't a natural - at times, the hands looked stiff like frying pans and he was too easily pushed out of position. Nevertheless, I'm very pleased for the lad that he got the chance to shove up the Crows just a little bit!

[Wazza]

I think one of the differences this week was Jesse played mainly as a forward and his confidence returned - yes that word confidence its a wonderfull thing. Been shot down here many times associating the word confidence and forward with Jesse's name.

Cheers

waz

[grarmy]

White is a very good forward.

He isn't. That is the issue. But full credit to him for his best game maybe ever. Full credit for the little things and hard work he put in...without giving away free kicks and turning over the ball - hallmarks of his previous games during the past five years. Full credit. But Jesse has not lived up to his promise and the club has given him more chances than a showgirl at a buck's party. What he has now is another big chance to demonstrate the ability recruited for in the first place. He will play against Port...perhaps at Everitt's expense. But on his performance against Adelaide he will get another game...maybe, just maybe turn the corner on what has been a disappointing career at the Swans.

[dimelb]

Couldn't agree more. There were two parts of Jesse's weekend's performance that I really loved (actually there were more, but these are the ones I loved the most).

The first one was obvious - the Q3 goal. It was a great effort to get the ball in the first place, a real display of pace and determination to burn off the Adelaide player and a kick at full pace from a tight angle which any of the goal-sneaks in the AFL would be proud to show their grandkids! I can't get tired of watching repeats of it!

The second one was Everitt's goal. Everitt handpassed to White. It didn't quite stick and was gathered by the Adelaide player, who White tackled, knocking the ball loose. He then dives from the ground to knock it to Everitt's advantages and then jumps up to hold off the Adelaide player cutting off Everitt. He didn't stop him for long, but it was all the time that Everitt needed to charge through and slot a goal from 50. A chain of 1%s that resulted directly in a goal! I hadn't really noticed until Saturday's game how much work the Swans big men do off the ball. If there's a Parker, Jack or Hannebery charging through traffic with the ball, there's almost always a Pyke, Mumford, or White just off-camera holding back would be tacklers. Particularly Pyke. He's made an art-form of it. It's the sort of thing which doesn't turn up on stats and doesn't get praise, but makes our team what it is.

Here's hoping the big man gets another shot at it next week and consolidates with another fantastic performance.
Welcome aboard DK_ and thanks for an informative post, especially on the big men's 1%ers. I'll know what to look for in future.

[DK_]

Thanks dimelb. Been reading for a while and love the forum. Was so excited by Saturday's game that I thought it time to start contributing!

[stellation]

The second one was Everitt's goal. Everitt handpassed to White. It didn't quite stick and was gathered by the Adelaide player, who White tackled, knocking the ball loose. He then dives from the ground to knock it to Everitt's advantages and then jumps up to hold off the Adelaide player cutting off Everitt. He didn't stop him for long, but it was all the time that Everitt needed to charge through and slot a goal from 50. A chain of 1%s that resulted directly in a goal! I hadn't really noticed until Saturday's game how much work the Swans big men do off the ball. If there's a Parker, Jack or Hannebery charging through traffic with the ball, there's almost always a Pyke, Mumford, or White just off-camera holding back would be tacklers. Particularly Pyke. He's made an art-form of it. It's the sort of thing which doesn't turn up on stats and doesn't get praise, but makes our team what it is.
Good observation, I don't know if it counts as a 1% but it definitely should when it gives an obvious clear path for your teammates.

To draw something of a parallel, I watched a bit of basketball this NBA season and one thing that impressed me was watching Andrew Bogut (when he was on the floor) with his new team Golden State. They had an amazing spread of outside shooters, including the best in the league, and I was amazed how often they got open enough to get a shot off was because of the big man Bogut knowing exactly when to time putting a little block on to just put their defender off enough to give them space. In a 5 on 5 game it became quite glaring how much of an impact he was having offensively without the ball in his hand, I think you can definitely start to see the same thing increasingly in football- there's always been the big bump, and always been the arms out to full wingspan shepherd to give a bit of space, but increasingly you see big men starting to read the play a bit to see where/when to put the block on to give their team the best advantage.

[DK_]

Good observation, I don't know if it counts as a 1% but it definitely should when it gives an obvious clear path for your teammates.

To draw something of a parallel, I watched a bit of basketball this NBA season and one thing that impressed me was watching Andrew Bogut (when he was on the floor) with his new team Golden State. They had an amazing spread of outside shooters, including the best in the league, and I was amazed how often they got open enough to get a shot off was because of the big man Bogut knowing exactly when to time putting a little block on to just put their defender off enough to give them space. In a 5 on 5 game it became quite glaring how much of an impact he was having offensively without the ball in his hand, I think you can definitely start to see the same thing increasingly in football- there's always been the big bump, and always been the arms out to full wingspan shepherd to give a bit of space, but increasingly you see big men starting to read the play a bit to see where/when to put the block on to give their team the best advantage.

That's exactly it. Not big bumps that leave the target on the floor. Just enough to get in the defender's way and give the man with the ball enough space (and the likes of Jack and Mitchell don't meed much to do some serious damage). They just look like the big galloot has stumbled into the opposition player or isn't going fast enough to get out of the way. Pyke clearly learnt the skill playing rugby, where a shepherd gets penalised if it looks intentional. But they are undeniably there. If you look through the highlights on sydneyswans.com it's like a crappy Hollywood thriller where the protagonist suddenly realises that there's a CIA agent in the background of every photo of the assassination victim. There's a big man there getting in the way every time.

[barry]

I think even I could look good as a fullforward with the Swans midfield delivering it lace out all afternoon.

[wolftone57]

Dont get me wrong, I love watching Jesse play and he is a hulk of a man - at one stage he was bending over facing towards the camera and I couldnt help but comment about his anvil shoulders. He took a couple of fantastic marks on the weekend, which I loved. He kicks straight and is a great team man. However, there was one occasion at least where he was in a contested contest and didnt try to put any body on his opponent, with that frame he should have edged him out and taken the mark.
i reiterate, I LOVE watching Jesse at his best, but his best is too infrequent to have me that excited. He has 10x the skill of Walsh but Walsh is prepared to try to physically intimidate, which is what the coaches are looking for in that position.
And by the way, I didnt realise that being a goold bloke means that you deserve to play AFL.

It wouldn't matter what Jesse does yoyu won't give him any credit. You just don't like him. I think the bloke has worked very hard to get to where he is today. He was one of the reasons we won so well on the weekend. He put his body on the line all the time. He knocked out of the pack twice that caused goals. He passed four times that caused scores. He kicked three goals. What the @@@@ do you want him to do!!!

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There is a lot of love for White at the moment, but Ive heard both Tippet, Reid and Jetta will be avaliable for the Port game, so I think White will lose his place.

Reid will be lucky to be back & the way he was playing, giving bloody nothing except tackle pressure and getting ball to ground. He really has to step up. Jesse did far more than Sam has done this season.

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White is a very good forward. They just ruin him by persiting with making him play in the ruck.

The first time he gets a game at FF and look what he delivers!

i agree Captain. he is a roaming forward like Riewoldt. He loves that role.

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Six things we learned from round 11 - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-10/six-things-we-learned-from-round-11)

4. The Crows should have taken Jesse White
Adelaide could have landed Jesse White along with the Swans' first-round pick (no. 23) for Kurt Tippett, but the Crows eventually turned the deal down. You can safely bet they would have wanted him on Saturday night. Concerns over his ability at the top level were alleviated with an outstanding three-goal, 13-disposal, seven-mark effort as the Swans' last-choice tall forward. The 25-year-old has had trouble consistently producing quality games throughout his career, his talent was on full show against Adelaide. He can play ? make no mistake about that. White's goal from a tight angle in the third quarter, after outrunning an opponent was brilliant. - Harry Thring


According to an agreement with Tippett's management they could only ask for a second round draft pick. I think if Jesse really wanted to go anywhere he would have nominated for the draft.

[Jewels]

It wouldn't matter what Jesse does yoyu won't give him any credit. You just don't like him. I think the bloke has worked very hard to get to where he is today. He was one of the reasons we won so well on the weekend. He put his body on the line all the time. He knocked out of the pack twice that caused goals. He passed four times that caused scores. He kicked three goals. What the @@@@ do you want him to do!!!

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Reid will be lucky to be back & the way he was playing, giving bloody nothing except tackle pressure and getting ball to ground. He really has to step up. Jesse did far more than Sam has done this season.

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i agree Captain. he is a roaming forward like Riewoldt. He loves that role.

For heavens sake White had one good game, ONE GOOD GAME, he is yet to prove himself as anything more then a flat track bully. As Barry said, any one of us would have looked good in the forward line on Saturday with the quality of ball the mids were delivering.
White one of the reasons we won so well - give me a break and as for Reid being lucky to get back, well I'm sorry that's just laughable, White will probably hold his spot till Mumford is back but then he's gonnnnnnnnne.
Just because you think he is the greatest thing to ever happen to the Sydney Swans doesn't make it so!

[0918330512]

For heavens sake White had one good game, ONE GOOD GAME, he is yet to prove himself as anything more then a flat track bully. As Barry said, any one of us would have looked good in the forward line on Saturday with the quality of ball the mids were delivering.
White one of the reasons we won so well - give me a break and as for Reid being lucky to get back, well I'm sorry that's just laughable, White will probably hold his spot till Mumford is back but then he's gonnnnnnnnne.
Just because you think he is the greatest thing to ever happen to the Sydney Swans doesn't make it so!

This is like watching your patents fighting! Pleeeease ... play nice ... for the sake of the kids :(

[wolftone57]

Tippet will have the fitness. In fact his fitness base should be higher than anyone on our list, since he's had nearly 9 months of training, training, training and no niggling injuries to cope with.

The only thing he wont have is match-fitness. Which means he may not pick up the pace right away, but he should easily last out the match.

Barry it is not fitness but match fitness that counts at this stage. Tippett is fit as a Mallee Bull but he is not match fit and that is what counts. He will struggle in a match first up. against Port it won't be a problem.

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For heavens sake White had one good game, ONE GOOD GAME, he is yet to prove himself as anything more then a flat track bully. As Barry said, any one of us would have looked good in the forward line on Saturday with the quality of ball the mids were delivering.
White one of the reasons we won so well - give me a break and as for Reid being lucky to get back, well I'm sorry that's just laughable, White will probably hold his spot till Mumford is back but then he's gonnnnnnnnne.
Just because you think he is the greatest thing to ever happen to the Sydney Swans doesn't make it so!

So his goal against Smith, one of Adelaide's fastest players not delivered to his advantage at all was a fluke was it? I don't think Jesse is the greatest thing at all as a matter of fact I have been very critical of how he goes about his game. You may not remember but I questioned his awareness and still do. But he has improved. Sam Reid is not the saviour for @@@@s sake. he is a developing player who needs to play along side of someone like Tippett to be more than just useful. Jesse if Tippett is injured. I don't think that idolising players is a good thing at all. I believe in looking at their strengths and weaknesses and finding a way for them to be useful. Jesse is like a raging bull when he has a straight run at the pill. Sam is clever and elusive and very good also at ground level, they both are. Sam takes wonderful pack marks but drops the easy pill. Jesse never drops the easy pill but sometimes does not like heavy body pressure. sorry but both have their good and bad sides.

[stellation]

For heavens sake White had one good game, ONE GOOD GAME, he is yet to prove himself as anything more then a flat track bully. As Barry said, any one of us would have looked good in the forward line on Saturday with the quality of ball the mids were delivering.
White one of the reasons we won so well - give me a break and as for Reid being lucky to get back, well I'm sorry that's just laughable, White will probably hold his spot till Mumford is back but then he's gonnnnnnnnne.
Belittling his game by suggesting he's not a reason we won and saying he's a flat track bully is a little unfair when you're highlighting that Sam should come straight back in. If kicking goals in a big win makes you a flat track bully, Sam has only kicked 7 goals from 9 games as a key forward this year and 5 of those have come from 2 games you could argue put him in flat track bully territory- against GWS and the Lions.

[ScottH]

Sam has also played up the ground, or in some cases at the other end of the ground, and has performed quite well.
Sam as you've said has kicked most of his goals against dud sides.
Jesse has kicked his against one dud side, and struggled, as did Sam against a good side (although, the Hawks were hot to trot that night.).

I still think Sam has more positives than Jesse, but both are not showing their wares often enough.

(Posted without issue from IE8)

[stellation]

Sam has also played up the ground, or in some cases at the other end of the ground, and has performed quite well.
Sam as you've said has kicked most of his goals against dud sides.
Jesse has kicked his against one dud side, and struggled, as did Sam against a good side (although, the Hawks were hot to trot that night.).

I still think Sam has more positives than Jesse, but both are not showing their wares often enough.

(Posted without issue from IE8)
I expect Sam to come in over Jesse, I'm not really suggesting he wouldn't and I can perfectly understand why he would. I think he's generally played well since the Lions game.

I don't think there's a conspiracy against Jesse from the coaching staff, but I do think his performances are judged with more scrutiny than others by them and certainly by those on here. Not to suggest that you're doing it, but as a minor perception thing I think your comment highlights it to some extent; when discussing their output as key forwards we are quick to highlight that Sam has been playing away from the goal square, but we don't really touch on Jesse's forward production (in the Hawks game, for instance, and each run he had last year) also having to factor in time spent in the ruck.

Even with playing up the ground I do think Sam has spent enough time close to goals that he probably would have been our top (if not, top 3) forward 50 target so far this year.

[RogueSwan]

IMO you can't really compare the two as Reid has been asked to play a high CHF position whereas White was playing as more a goal square to 50 arc forward, dare I a say, ala a Full-forward?
Without a Tippo (apparently that is what the Boys call him) option you could easily see both of them playing in the same team. With it pretty likely that Tippo will play next week it will be interesting to see if White is pushed further up the ground to play more of a roaming role.

[Dosser]

It wouldn't matter what Jesse does yoyu won't give him any credit. You just don't like him. I think the bloke has worked very hard to get to where he is today. He was one of the reasons we won so well on the weekend. He put his body on the line all the time. He knocked out of the pack twice that caused goals. He passed four times that caused scores. He kicked three goals. What the @@@@ do you want him to do!!!


Ah Wolfie. I really do enjoy reading your posts because you are insightful and thoughtful. For this reason I am assuming that you were responding to the wrong post? I praised Jesse (read it again) and commented that he needs to be more physical. If he was then he would be a gun ff and we would never have gone after Tippett in the first place.

[Melbournehammer]

So happy that there is now some actual fairness about assessing jesse. Please remember that many of those games he has played for us in the last few years - richmond at the mcg last year, hawthorn at the mcg this - we have been absolutely belted around the ball - and i mean absolutely belted. but he is always the first one out because he has no support behind him.

Sam has been a critical part of our success because he is rarely outmarked - he actually has tremendous reach and a great spoil and he uses that often when caught behind in marking contests - which is why i think he would actually make a great defender. but jesse has strengths as well - people expect him to bust packs - but bbbh never did that and no-one criticised him for basically being a lead up forward who was lost when they introduced the hands in the back rule because he didnt know how to take a contested mark apart from pushing his opponent under the ball. Jesse often plays in front and has consistently brought the ball to ground when in contests - and that is what people congratulate sam for on many occasions.

They are both developing players and neither is the answer to everything but I am so sick of people calling him a spud. He isnt. He had the misfortune to play at the tail end of a great period for us - as our entire midfield turned over as all of the 2005-06 era players drifted out and todays midfield was developing.

I would play sam ahead of jesse because he is capable of getting up to the wing and back more often, but i just want him to be recognised as not a spud but someone that can play a bit - limitations exist but he is not a spud.

[alt_mattr]

Can I just say both Reid and White are excellent footballers, great guys and try their guts out. We are bickering over which is better is like bickering over whether a Porsche is better than a Maserati. Sure, one probably is better than the other, but having both in the garage is pretty bloody awesome.

I just want to enjoy the fact that a good player had a good game and we have a squad with too many good players in it.

[magic.merkin]

I must say, lets see him back it up for a few weeks in a row before we exhale...

I was his biggest fan (big footy and RWO were my defending battle grounds), but last year I gave up hope and looked elsewhere for our next KPP. I dearly want to be proved wrong. As watching him live that day against Carlton in 2010 when he was leading and slotting 4, I dared to believe and was saying Barry who?

[Ludwig]

We should remember that Jesse started putting in consistent reserves performances from the middle of last year, when he started playing mostly in the ruck. And he has carried that over to this year. He put in a fair performance in his first senior game this year, and we all agree quite a good one last week. So there are a few positive signs that he may have in fact turned the corner. But the jury's still out. We just have to wait and see.

[ShockOfHair]

I'd like to see Sammie and Jesse create a website and call it Reid and White Online.

[Jewels]

I'd like to see Sammie and Jesse create a website and call it Reid and White Online.

:clap: :rofl: :five:

[ugg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UIfQYWTad0

[Primmy]

Thanks ugg.....

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Mighty Whitey tweeted he was delighted to be the focus of the Quad Call. Good luck to him, he deserves it.

[alt_mattr]

It was a special moment. I never realised how fast he is, in modern footy that type of foot speed is pretty handy :)

[ShockOfHair]

The other Jesse goal that comes to mind was against Geelong in 09 or 10 where he burnt off one or two players and booted it at pace from near the 50. Like this one a beauty to watch and not at all a big man's goal. Glad he's got the recognition.

[DK_]

The other Jesse goal that comes to mind was against Geelong in 09 or 10 where he burnt off one or two players and booted it at pace from near the 50. Like this one a beauty to watch and not at all a big man's goal. Glad he's got the recognition.

I think (hope/want maybe?) that this year he's added some serious fitness to back up these acts with work up and down the ground. Hopefully like Jetta took his speed and backed it with fitness in 2012.

[graemed]

Thanks ugg.....

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Mighty Whitey tweeted he was delighted to be the focus of the Quad Call. Good luck to him, he deserves it.

That Jesse feels this was a better moment than the tackle and shepherd he applied to allow everitt's goal disappoints me but affirms my belief that he is still missing the point of how the swans play and think.

[stellation]

That Jesse feels this was a better moment than the tackle and shepherd he applied to allow everitt's goal disappoints me but affirms my belief that he is still missing the point of how the swans play and think.
I think you're reading way too much into that.

[barry]

He's fast, he's big, can take a mark, and is that rare and valued commodity of forward/second ruck.
Plus he's playing in a club which manages to eek out every possible bit of a players ability onto the field.

So why isnt he a superstar ?
It doesnt make sense.

[Plugger46]

I think you're reading way too much into that.

Yeah, spot on.

[RogueSwan]

FRom the MMM commentary, he can now be called Jesse Wow! (about 36s in)

[ernie koala]

That Jesse feels this was a better moment than the tackle and shepherd he applied to allow everitt's goal disappoints me but affirms my belief that he is still missing the point of how the swans play and think.

I'm sure, during video dissection of the game, he would of been told ,very clearly, which act most pleased his teammates and coaches...

I dare say the shepherd and tackle would of been numero uno...followed by other pressure acts he made.

[Primmy]

Sheesh its a moment of glory which he isn't normally showered with! He's entitled to it, and to popular acclaim for Pete's sake. Nit picking at its finest.

[dimelb]

His shepherd and his own quad call goal: "just playing his role" in both instances. Good luck to him.

[aardvark]

5 kicks and 7 hitouts. That's more like the Jesse we know and love!

[ernie koala]

5 kicks and 7 hitouts. That's more like the Jesse we know and love!

Maybe his inconsistency will run to Friday night, and we'll see another Stella(not you Stella) performance from Jesse.

[boroboy]

He's fast, he's big, can take a mark, and is that rare and valued commodity of forward/second ruck.
Plus he's playing in a club which manages to eek out every possible bit of a players ability onto the field.

So why isnt he a superstar ?
It doesnt make sense.

Because he doesn't tackle. Won't chase. Stands on the periphery of every contest and never puts his body on the line. Has the turning circle of a combine harvester. Doesn't kick goals. Gives away countless free kicks. Has the heart of a pea.

Did I miss anything?

[stellation]

Because he doesn't tackle. Won't chase. Stands on the periphery of every contest and never puts his body on the line. Has the turning circle of a combine harvester. Doesn't kick goals. Gives away countless free kicks. Has the heart of a pea.

Did I miss anything?
I question your "heat of a pea" statement. I've said it on here before, but I think it shows a lot of heart to slog it out in the magoos knowing you're a fair way down the pecking order and be ready to play when your team needs you. It shows a lot of heart to ruck out whole games in the magoos as an undersized ruckman because the club hasn't got anyone else who can give you a rest. It shows a lot of heart to show more joy in the success of your teammates than in your own success, especially when you're a fringe player.

At some point I think as footy fans we need to sit back and think about just how nasty our casually thrown comments are when discussing young men who probably are doing all they can to succeed.

[0918330512]

At some point I think as footy fans we need to sit back and think about just how nasty our casually thrown comments are when discussing young men who probably are doing all they can to succeed.

Well said. Anyone can type from anonymity ... I hope that when anyone offers criticism, before they press the submit button, they stop for a second and think (honestly think) would I say this directly to they player's face.
Most of these guys are drafted with a chance to live their dream ... only it's just the beginning ... with no certainty of success. Many careers are short, even when the players are giving 100%.

[Bloodthirsty]

All I have to say is: Get used to him. If Mumford walks, White will become an important part of our team. We know he can play, he just needs to finally prove it and consecutive games are the only way to make that happen.

[Doctor]

You can't judge the performance of a tall on a surface like they played on yesterday. That was appalling.

[Ludwig]

Jesse's calm demeanor would be admired if he were a star player. Some just interpret his pleasant personality as not having enough ticker. I think he should be judged on his performance, not appearances. Many of his performances are not that great, but he shouldn't be judged too harshly on this game in wet conditions. We know he can get a little lost out there when things are moving too fast around him. Let's see how he goes the next time round.

[aardvark]

Let's see how he goes the next time round.

yep like we've been doing for the last 8 years......

[ernie koala]

Well said. Anyone can type from anonymity ... I hope that when anyone offers criticism, before they press the submit button, they stop for a second and think (honestly think) would I say this directly to they player's face.
Most of these guys are drafted with a chance to live their dream ... only it's just the beginning ... with no certainty of success. Many careers are short, even when the players are giving 100%.

Your riding a bit high in the saddle there 0918....I won't go too far into the old chestnut debate, (which has been aired many times over on here)...but...

Even though I don't agree with Boroboys view of Jesse, I'm happy for him to post it. ( No one with the heart of a pea steps out on an AFL field)

These boards are about opinions, any opinion, without them this would be a dull lifeless place.

[boroboy]

Jesse's calm demeanor would be admired if he were a star player. Some just interpret his pleasant personality as not having enough ticker. I think he should be judged on his performance, not appearances. Many of his performances are not that great, but he shouldn't be judged too harshly on this game in wet conditions. We know he can get a little lost out there when things are moving too fast around him. Let's see how he goes the next time round.

But he's clearly not a star player-he's not even a consistently reliable player.

And I do judge him on his performances-the vast majority of which are dreadful.

He can 'get a little lost out there'? Seriously-didn't realize we were pampering to a child.

And 'let's see how he goes next time around'? It's like listening to a stuck record with the Jesse fan club-how many chances does he deserve exactly?

No offence intended to your defence of him-I just find it baffling how anyone can continue to defend this guy.

[Ludwig]

But he's clearly not a star player-he's not even a consistently reliable player.

And I do judge him on his performances-the vast majority of which are dreadful.

He can 'get a little lost out there'? Seriously-didn't realize we were pampering to a child.

And 'let's see how he goes next time around'? It's like listening to a stuck record with the Jesse fan club-how many chances does he deserve exactly?

No offence intended to your defence of him-I just find it baffling how anyone can continue to defend this guy.

He's had a reasonable game when we were crushed by Hawthorn. He played very well against Adelaide followed by a quiet game in conditions that didn't suit tall forwards. I don't think that justifies a crucification. I think it's quite reasonable to give him another go, especially considering that Mummy is out with injury and out of contract this year.

[0918330512]

Your riding a bit high in the saddle there 0918....I won't go too far into the old chestnut debate, (which has been aired many times over on here)...but...

Even though I don't agree with Boroboys view of Jesse, I'm happy for him to post it. ( No one with the heart of a pea steps out on an AFL field)

These boards are about opinions, any opinion, without them this would be a dull lifeless place.

Not saying people shouldn't post opinions ... just saying that before going to town on someone, consider it might be hurtful to them of their friends or family. Some stuff can be really harsh immediately after the heat of a battle lost. My 2c worth

[aardvark]

Not saying people shouldn't post opinions ... just saying that before going to town on someone, consider it might be hurtful to them of their friends or family. Some stuff can be really harsh immediately after the heat of a battle lost. My 2c worth

The guys a professional footballer who's been at our club for a bloody long time. He earns 300k a year doing what he does. Do you think we get value for money? I hope he reads all the crap written about him and i hope it hurts enough to make him improve because in my opinion he's ripping us off. Just my 300k worth.

[Mr Magoo]

The guys a professional footballer who's been at our club for a bloody long time. He earns 300k a year doing what he does. Do you think we get value for money? I hope he reads all the crap written about him and i hope it hurts enough to make him improve because in my opinion he's ripping us off. Just my 300k worth.

The reality is whether he was in or out on the weekend , it wouldnt have changed the result. Terrible conditions to judge the game of a big man like White.

There are a few others that conditions shouldnt have affected as much that should be hanging there heads before him.

[Melbournehammer]

The reality is whether he was in or out on the weekend , it wouldnt have changed the result. Terrible conditions to judge the game of a big man like White.

There are a few others that conditions shouldnt have affected as much that should be hanging there heads before him.

+1
starting with the entire midfield and defence.

bar keiran.

[Bloodthirsty]

But he's clearly not a star player-he's not even a consistently reliable player.

And I do judge him on his performances-the vast majority of which are dreadful.

He can 'get a little lost out there'? Seriously-didn't realize we were pampering to a child.

And 'let's see how he goes next time around'? It's like listening to a stuck record with the Jesse fan club-how many chances does he deserve exactly?

No offence intended to your defence of him-I just find it baffling how anyone can continue to defend this guy.

Boroboy -

1. Who should replace White on Friday against Carlton? and
2. Who should play his role permanently if Mummy walks?

[aardvark]

Boroboy -

1. Who should replace White on Friday against Carlton? and
2. Who should play his role permanently if Mummy walks?

1. Reid if he's fit
2. Tippett.

and I reckon the chance of Mummy going is very unlikely.

[satchmopugdog]

Hooray....the new Paul Bevan....this divisiveness has been missing for a while

[bodgie]

White worked hard, competed as well as any of the other tall blokes at contests on a water saturated ground. Many others out there deserve more bitching for that days effort.

[Plugger46]

He had plenty of mates. Jesse White was not the reason we lost the game.

Turning up with the wrong mindset and just expecting to do the business is the reason we lost.

Bit of publicity reading over the break I suspect.

[ernie koala]

Up until recently, I've held up hope for both White and Armstrong. But unfortunately, neither show anything when the heat is on.

I would contend, from what I've seen of them both....Neither is likely to give a yelp in a hotly contested final.

I'm not basing this on last weekends game, but rather all their 1st grade AFL games as Swans.

Both have had good patches, but it's never when the heat is on.

Armstrong has excellent disposal skills, but when under pressure he wilts.

Jesse has all the tools, but only uses them occasionally....

Here's hoping he has an 'on game' this Friday....And there in lies the problem.

[barry]

I can never understand why Armstrong is not considered as a half forward flanker, rather than a defender.

[Plugger46]

I reckon Armstrong played very well against Essendon and Geelong last year. He was pretty solid in NZ against St.Kilda this year too. Unfortunately he hasn't been consistent. It's worth considering that his first game for a while coincided with the first time our midfield has been beaten for a month or more.

[Jewels]

He's had a reasonable game when we were crushed by Hawthorn. He played very well against Adelaide followed by a quiet game in conditions that didn't suit tall forwards. I don't think that justifies a crucification. I think it's quite reasonable to give him another go, especially considering that Mummy is out with injury and out of contract this year.

I called him a downhill skier last week and copped some criticism for it but I think your post points out exactly where I'm coming from, except we view his game against Hawthorn a tad differently.
Yes, he was not the reason we lost on Saturday and no I don't believe the result would have been any different if he had not been in the team, but using the wet ground is no good for big fellas defense is crap, he was beaten in nearly every category by Tippett.

[Bloodthirsty]

1. Reid if he's fit
2. Tippett.

and I reckon the chance of Mummy going is very unlikely.

Reid may not be fit and IMO it is a waste of a class (and expensive) power-forward to use Tippett in the ruck.

White will be around for a while. Let's just see if he can string some solid games together.