Our bottom six...

[MightyBloods]

I admire how well our side is going at the moment but it's not good enough to win the flag. It will always come down to the "bottom six" of the sides to go all the way. In 2012 we were very even...this year (with injuries) the bottom six which normally mean the difference of going all the way worry me. Everitt, Lamb, Brandon Jack, Cunningham,White, Rampe. Beating Richmond and an increased intensity I think exposed Lamb although more games for him will improve him. Brandon Jack has heaps of potential but he worries me with his individual acts on occasions. Rampe has been a revelation as a replacement for AJ. Everitt is an ex factor but worries me under pressure..Jessie White is playing very well but is slow minded. Cunningham & Brandon Jack look good but very green.

Our midfield is great...so great that they are capable of taking us all the way.
Players to come back....Reid, Goodes, LRT, Jetta, Shaw, Rohan McGlynn.
To come back ...Shaw (releasing McVeigh to more midfield); for Cunningham
.......................Jetta/Rohan/McGlynn for Brandon Jack/Lamb
.......................LRT/Goodes/Reid for Everitt/White
If I had a priority (assuming fitness) it would be getting Rohan or Jetta into the side in place of B Jack and Cunningham.
Goodes in place of Lamb.
Reid in place of White as much as Jessie has played well (including Reid spending more time down back).

LRT may not be ready for finals...a shame as he is a finals performer.
McGlynn is a club fav however I have him out of the side based mainly on his inferior disposal.

I am not loving our injuries but loving our depth and we havent seen Membrey who I rate make his debut yet.

Get Jetta/Rohan/Reid/Goodes /Shaw into this side and the Swans will be fav to go back to back for the first time in their history.

[Auntie.Gerald]

mighty fair point

I suppose we need to compare ?

Hawks bottom six are ?

Cats bottom six are ?

[goswannies]

Get Jetta/Rohan/Reid/Goodes /Shaw into this side and the Swans will be fav to go back to back for the first time in their history.

Technically, I suspect we were probably "fav" to go back to back in 1933/34 given the amazing lineup we had back then ...

[Bloodthirsty]

Reid can go and earn his spot. He had never dominated, and never been in the vein of form expected as a power forward. One would be stupid to displace people who are playing way better.

Anyone who thinks Jetta is just going to come in right at the end, having been out for so long, and pick up where he left off last year needs to come back down from the clouds a bit.

Everitt's athletic and aerobic ability is probably far more of a weapon than what we would see from LRT limping into the side. But LRT is gone, so forget about him.

McGlynn is great. Bit harsh to drop him. He brings spark and agression to the team.

Goodes gets a hall-pass.

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Reid can go and earn his spot. He had never dominated, and never been in the vein of form expected as a power forward. One would be stupid to displace people who are playing way better.

Anyone who thinks Jetta is just going to come in right at the end, having been out for so long, and pick up where he left off last year needs to come back down from the clouds a bit.

Everitt's athletic and aerobic ability is probably far more of a weapon than what we would see from LRT limping into the side. But LRT is gone, so forget about him.

McGlynn is great. Bit harsh to drop him. He brings spark and agression to the team.

Goodes gets a hall-pass.

[DK_]

Reid can go and earn his spot. He had never dominated, and never been in the vein of form expected as a power forward. One would be stupid to displace people who are playing way better.

Reading between the lines on Horse's post-match comments, I think he will have to. Jessie's effort has seen him move to the spot being his to lose.

I think LRT is gone. Someone had to move to the long-term injury list for Biggs to get promoted to the senior list and LRT is the obvious candidate.

[aardvark]

I am fairly sure we had room to promote a rookie without anyone going on the long term injury list.

[Panttz]

I agree with the above comments on LRT, unfortunately even if he does come back in the next month he wont have the run in the legs to allow him to be the player he was last year. I suspect he will only be needed if Grundy or Teddy go down. Also, it might be worth giving Mal a week off and save him for the Pies at ANZ and let Shaw have a run around in the backline this week against the dogs. Would be the best way of getting some 1's game time into his legs as well as giving Mal a freshen up after that heavy hit he copped yesterday.

[zulu]

Greetings from Thailand, I enjoyed your analysis although I disagree on a couple of points, I would be very happy having White, McGlynn & Rampe sitting on the bench come finals time, assuming our injured players return. McGlynn is a terrific goal sneak, he is like a pop up sprinkler the way he can find space over the back of the opposition defense. I have been a critic of White for a long time, in my book he was just lazy, but now it seems he has rectified his work rate and is a very good kick for goal. An extra big body is a bonus, he makes the opposition aware of his presence.

Rampe will continue to improve and will eventually replace Shaw, it worries me when I see the older players taking such a long time to recover from injuries, it tells me they are nearing the end of their career, sadly this applies to Goodes as well.

I am a huge fan of Reid but I believe he is work in progress, he needs to bulk up a little, I think the the Swans should be patient with his development and continue to favour White over him until the time is right. OK, given what I have just said take White off the bench and give his seat to Reid. :smile:

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Greetings from Thailand, I enjoyed your analysis although I disagree on a couple of points, I would be very happy having White, McGlynn & Rampe sitting on the bench come finals time, assuming our injured players return. McGlynn is a terrific goal sneak, he is like a pop up sprinkler the way he can find space over the back of the opposition defense. I have been a critic of White for a long time, in my book he was just lazy, but now it seems he has rectified his work rate and is a very good kick for goal. An extra big body is a bonus, he makes the opposition aware of his presence.

Rampe will continue to improve and will eventually replace Shaw, it worries me when I see the older players taking such a long time to recover from injuries, it tells me they are nearing the end of their career, sadly this applies to Goodes as well.

I am a huge fan of Reid but I believe he is work in progress, he needs to bulk up a little, I think the the Swans should be patient with his development and continue to favour White over him until the time is right. OK, given what I have just said take White off the bench and give his seat to Reid. :smile:

[barry]

I agree with the above comments on LRT, unfortunately even if he does come back in the next month he wont have the run in the legs to allow him to be the player he was last year. I suspect he will only be needed if Grundy or Teddy go down. Also, it might be worth giving Mal a week off and save him for the Pies at ANZ and let Shaw have a run around in the backline this week against the dogs. Would be the best way of getting some 1's game time into his legs as well as giving Mal a freshen up after that heavy hit he copped yesterday.

A agree on all counts.

Our vunerability is key position defenders if Grundy or Richards get hurt. We need LRT to be fit enough to back them up if required.

[Wazza]

A agree on all counts.

Our vunerability is key position defenders if Grundy or Richards get hurt. We need LRT to be fit enough to back them up if required.

I think Reid is probably the back up if he gets back - if Jesse keeps going ok it could be Reid for Everitt, I think Reid could end up in defence.

Cheers

Waz

[Ludwig]

I figure we've got 8 players that didn't play on Sunday that will be available for finals:

2 Out of favour players in Morton and Armstrong
3 that are nearly ready to go in McGlynn (1 week left on suspension) Shaw and Rohan building match fitness. All 3 would usually be in best 22.
3 that are likely to be fit before finals (but not certain): Goodes, Jetta and Reid. Goodes and Jetta will certainly play if fit. Reid may have to play backup, as there is not an obvious player to drop when he's fit. As long as Jesse continues to play the way he has, there's no point to bring in Reid.

Although both BJ and Harry C have played well enough, surely they will be dropped for McGlynn and either Shaw or Rohan. Then it becomes more difficult. Lamb has looked good and is probably contributing at a level close to McGlynn, but is likely to make way for the 3rd inclusion, whoever that might be. After that, it becomes very difficult. I think the next in the queue is Dre, and he's really played well.

[Doctor]

Unless they bring back Reid as a defender then Dre isn't going anywhere. He's AJ's replacement and is doing a sterling job. The question really is what happens with Shaw. Rampe has replaced Mattner and the left footer brings that balance. If Shaw comes in does he push McVeigh back into midfield? If so, who goes out?

[dimelb]

Unless they bring back Reid as a defender then Dre isn't going anywhere. He's AJ's replacement and is doing a sterling job. The question really is what happens with Shaw. Rampe has replaced Mattner and the left footer brings that balance. If Shaw comes in does he push McVeigh back into midfield? If so, who goes out?

How I see it too. When we play Hawthorn we will need a third tall defender to handle Gunston after Ted and Reg take Buddy and Roughead; Dre is lining up for that very nicely. We might need Shaw for Cyril whose pace might trouble Smithy; he could go to Breust. As for dropping anyone from the mids, if it comes to that someone would be dead unlucky. I'd be inclined to play Macca between mid and defenders; he has been a revelation down back

[DamY]

Smooch has had Cyril's number in their past few encounters, so I think he's ok on him.

[Ratna]

IMO Ludwig has it pretty well correct. The two that will definitely go are BJ and Harry not that they have done anything wrong and the exposure will help in their development. After that the selectors have some really tough decisions to make. Looking at the list it is easy to think that Goodes, Jetta, McGlynn, Shaw and Rohan should all come into the best 22 when fit. That is the easy side of the equation who to remove or not include from this 5 is the tough part....and that is not mentioning Reid who IMO was not offering as much as Jessie prior to being injured but probably should be there. Good problems to have now and looking great for the future but I am glad that I am not the one who has to tell Dre or Jesse or Jed that they will be making way given the performances they have been putting in.

[dimelb]

Smooch has had Cyril's number in their past few encounters, so I think he's ok on him.

That's good. After his goal on Sunday I reckon he could follow Cyril into the midfield if necessary.

[Bloodthirsty]

At some stage people might have to accept that players who we assume are in the best 22, are no longer in the best 22. Who says we need to play Shaw at all? And if we are adamant we should play him - who is ousted from the backline? And White is definitely a better option than Reid. You can't associate the word 'impact' with Reid. Not yet. Reid can be next to useless if you're trying to increase the number on the scoreboard next to the Swans' name. There is no way you would drop Everitt or Rampe. BJ & Cunningham out, and Lamb too if you want to be really harsh.

I'll be honest here - I can't see a spot for Jetta this year.

We will soon see how serious the Swans are about their rhetoric regarding earning your place, playing your role well and taking your opportunity and not selecting on name only.

[aardvark]

We will soon see how serious the Swans are about their rhetoric regarding earning your place, playing your role well and taking your opportunity and not selecting on name only.

How far do we go back before "Earning your spot" starts and finishes? I would suggest Shaw, Jetta, LRT and Goodes have all earned their spots and while they are still on the list deserve a game if fit.
If Jetta was fit tomorrow he would walk in, same as Reidy will. The youngsters will wait their turn unless they are significantly better than the players coming back.

[Bloodthirsty]

How far do we go back before "Earning your spot" starts and finishes? I would suggest Shaw, Jetta, LRT and Goodes have all earned their spots and while they are still on the list deserve a game if fit.
If Jetta was fit tomorrow he would walk in, same as Reidy will. The youngsters will wait their turn unless they are significantly better than the players coming back.

So would you drop White or Everitt for Reid tomorrow?

There are few players as ineffective as Reid and Jetta when they're not in form. Fitness is one thing, guaranteed form is another.

[mcs]

At some stage people might have to accept that players who we assume are in the best 22, are no longer in the best 22. Who says we need to play Shaw at all? And if we are adamant we should play him - who is ousted from the backline? And White is definitely a better option than Reid. You can't associate the word 'impact' with Reid. Not yet. Reid can be next to useless if you're trying to increase the number on the scoreboard next to the Swans' name. There is no way you would drop Everitt or Rampe. BJ & Cunningham out, and Lamb too if you want to be really harsh.

I'll be honest here - I can't see a spot for Jetta this year.

We will soon see how serious the Swans are about their rhetoric regarding earning your place, playing your role well and taking your opportunity and not selecting on name only.

I agree with some of that, possibly around Reid. But seriously, you would leave ot a fit Jetta from the team? Surely he comes straight in if he is fit and willing to go. His 2013 form before the injury was not good, but for all we know he's been injured all along and that might explain why he just hasn't recovered as hoped.

As for Shaw - I'd argue very hard that he is clearly still in our best 22, and should be chosen. McVeigh is a wonderful luxury - sure he has been great playing down back, but he is equally as useful in the middle or even playing on the half forward flank. Shaw gives us a completely different option coming out of defence that we don't currently have. Mal and McVeigh rely on breaking the line with either good chains of handpasses and movement or accurate kicking. Shaw can also offer the ability to break the line with raw leg speed. A fully fit Shaw still is clearly in our best 22 imo.

Don't understimate the usefulness and critical need for speed if we are to be successful in September.

[Bloodthirsty]

I agree with some of that, possibly around Reid. But seriously, you would leave ot a fit Jetta from the team? Surely he comes straight in if he is fit and willing to go. His 2013 form before the injury was not good, but for all we know he's been injured all along and that might explain why he just hasn't recovered as hoped.

As for Shaw - I'd argue very hard that he is clearly still in our best 22, and should be chosen. McVeigh is a wonderful luxury - sure he has been great playing down back, but he is equally as useful in the middle or even playing on the half forward flank. Shaw gives us a completely different option coming out of defence that we don't currently have. Mal and McVeigh rely on breaking the line with either good chains of handpasses and movement or accurate kicking. Shaw can also offer the ability to break the line with raw leg speed. A fully fit Shaw still is clearly in our best 22 imo.

Don't understimate the usefulness and critical need for speed if we are to be successful in September.

I know but I'm thinking Rohan might be in a better position.

[wolftone57]

I admire how well our side is going at the moment but it's not good enough to win the flag. It will always come down to the "bottom six" of the sides to go all the way. In 2012 we were very even...this year (with injuries) the bottom six which normally mean the difference of going all the way worry me. Everitt, Lamb, Brandon Jack, Cunningham,White, Rampe. Beating Richmond and an increased intensity I think exposed Lamb although more games for him will improve him. Brandon Jack has heaps of potential but he worries me with his individual acts on occasions. Rampe has been a revelation as a replacement for AJ. Everitt is an ex factor but worries me under pressure..Jessie White is playing very well but is slow minded. Cunningham & Brandon Jack look good but very green.

Our midfield is great...so great that they are capable of taking us all the way.
Players to come back....Reid, Goodes, LRT, Jetta, Shaw, Rohan McGlynn.
To come back ...Shaw (releasing McVeigh to more midfield); for Cunningham
.......................Jetta/Rohan/McGlynn for Brandon Jack/Lamb
.......................LRT/Goodes/Reid for Everitt/White
If I had a priority (assuming fitness) it would be getting Rohan or Jetta into the side in place of B Jack and Cunningham.
Goodes in place of Lamb.
Reid in place of White as much as Jessie has played well (including Reid spending more time down back).

LRT may not be ready for finals...a shame as he is a finals performer.
McGlynn is a club fav however I have him out of the side based mainly on his inferior disposal.

I am not loving our injuries but loving our depth and we havent seen Membrey who I rate make his debut yet.

Get Jetta/Rohan/Reid/Goodes /Shaw into this side and the Swans will be fav to go back to back for the first time in their history.

Reid: 5-6 weeks on the sidelines and i would not have him straight back in the Seniors in a million years. Match fitness is very important and he will have none. coming finals I only want match fir players not duds.

LRT: Probably will not play this year again, if ever again.

Jetts: Is still 5-6 weeks away and definitely needs to have a run in Twos, see Reid.

Benny: Will come back when fit or finished sentence whichever comes first. Back by 3 no problem with match fitness.

Goodes: 5-6 weeks this is really a hard one and everyone is going to disagree with me but I think he has to have a game in the Twos to test out the leg. No use bringing him in as with Jetts and Sammy if he is going to break down again.

I think BJ & Harry are young yet and will improve and definitely won't play finals. But I think the jostling for other positions is going to be far more strident and will be a closer call than you think. Frankly I think Sammy's form was not great and just when he looked to be running into form he got injured. I would rather an in form Jesse than an out of form Sammy. There might be the thought that Reg needs to pick up his game and Sammy might be tried down back but I worry about him on the really strong forwards like Cloke.

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So many are saying Jetts would come straight in if fit. He might be track fit but match fitness is a far different thing. He needs one or two in the McGoos.

Gary rohan does have a great deal more chance than Jetts & Reid of making the finals. Rooster will be ready in probably about 2 more games, three at most. Shaw about the same.

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How I see it too. When we play Hawthorn we will need a third tall defender to handle Gunston after Ted and Reg take Buddy and Roughead; Dre is lining up for that very nicely. We might need Shaw for Cyril whose pace might trouble Smithy; he could go to Breust. As for dropping anyone from the mids, if it comes to that someone would be dead unlucky. I'd be inclined to play Macca between mid and defenders; he has been a revelation down back

I didn't see Cyril's pace bothering smithy in the GF. Plus Smithy knows just how to play Cyril and beat him. Smithy was the player who beat Cyril at school.

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At some stage people might have to accept that players who we assume are in the best 22, are no longer in the best 22. Who says we need to play Shaw at all? And if we are adamant we should play him - who is ousted from the backline? And White is definitely a better option than Reid. You can't associate the word 'impact' with Reid. Not yet. Reid can be next to useless if you're trying to increase the number on the scoreboard next to the Swans' name. There is no way you would drop Everitt or Rampe. BJ & Cunningham out, and Lamb too if you want to be really harsh.

I'll be honest here - I can't see a spot for Jetta this year.

We will soon see how serious the Swans are about their rhetoric regarding earning your place, playing your role well and taking your opportunity and not selecting on name only.

Totally agree. As much as I like Rhyce he isn't in my top 22 now. He makes too many mistakes with the ball for mine. Mainly decision making and seems to bomb a lot. I would rather Rampe any day and Dre is gold. Macca & Mal are performing the roles Marty and Rhyce quite well. I don't think any player no matter who he is should be a walk up and they includes Goodsie. If a player has not got match fitness or can't find form for some reason then he deserves to be playing Twos not Seniors. We need the fitest, most committed players available to play each week, not some injured or out of form player who can't give his all. At some point in games an injured player can be a detriment, last year against Adelaide goodsie, who went in with an injury, goes down and has to come off. The sub has already been made and it leaves you one down, the same happened this year. Sam same thing, he was definitely not right if he went down like he did so they should not have played him

[Doctor]

At some stage people might have to accept that players who we assume are in the best 22, are no longer in the best 22. Who says we need to play Shaw at all? And if we are adamant we should play him - who is ousted from the backline? And White is definitely a better option than Reid. You can't associate the word 'impact' with Reid. Not yet. Reid can be next to useless if you're trying to increase the number on the scoreboard next to the Swans' name. There is no way you would drop Everitt or Rampe. BJ & Cunningham out, and Lamb too if you want to be really harsh.

I'll be honest here - I can't see a spot for Jetta this year.

We will soon see how serious the Swans are about their rhetoric regarding earning your place, playing your role well and taking your opportunity and not selecting on name only.

I agree 100%. Goodes is an automatic if fit but none of the others are (this season) IMO. We are also very big on structure (I know I go on about this) so it's not as simple as taking someone out. BJ & Cunningham I can see happening for McGlynn and (probably) Goodes but beyond that I struggle. Gaz is the real wildcard here though, but he'd probably trade spots with Lamb if selected. Rampe, Everitt, White & Mitchell are going nowhere atm.

[rojo]

Benny will be back in after this week - 4 games to go. Shaw will probably be back the same game or the one after that with three games go. I very much doubt it but Rohan possibly then too. It was said that Reid was beginning running this week, no mention of Goodes or Jets. It has to be kept in mind that including this week there are only 5 more roster games and with the Ressies maybe only 4.

We could be going into the finals with 3 players, who even if they are fit and ready to go, would not be match fit. Playing at such an intense level as finals football would be a severe test for them, apart from them fitting back into the team. Rohan is a difficult one. I err on the side of caution. As he has been out for a year and a half I would look at the bigger picture and leave him in the twos. But I suspect that would not sit well with Rohan himself if he thinks he is ready.

So Benny and Shaw will definitely be back in, at the expense of BJ and Cunningham. If Rohan was to be considered I expect Lamb would have to make way. I can't see Jude being put out.

Then we have Reid possibly back in, Goodsey and Jets I wonder about. I think if they were all to come in and about the same time, with little match fitness, it could really upset the balance. The team as it is now has started to gel and play good football together though a bit of tweaking still needs to be done. Benny, Shaw and ?Rohan will have enough time to work their way in. But how could you leave Goodesy in particular and Jets out if they were fit by the finals!!!!!

[mcs]

I know but I'm thinking Rohan might be in a better position.

You may very well be right. Basically, to win the flag, I think we need one of Rohan or Jetta in the team.

[barry]

The forgotten man seems to be mitch morton. If longmire thinks kids like bj and Cunningham are above him, then he really is in trouble.

Full squad availiable, goodes shaw jetta would all walk in. Out bj cunningham and probably lamb.. Lrt, reid white and dre would fight for 2 spots.

Remember, these absent stars only beed to be better than our weakest and inexperienced players

[Cressakel2]

STOP IT NOW! Goodes will come in straight away when he's ready. End of story. Ridiculous to think otherwise. You don't not play monuments & legends of the game when they're ready to go - regardless of how the team is traveling & whether it is a harsh call to drop a young bloke playing well. This is Goodes we're talking about! GOODES...

On top of the above argument, the guy played a fantastic month of footy 1-2 weeks before he injured his knee against Port. Note: I personally think he injured his knee last quarter of the Adelaide game and it never recovered.

Was also on track to kick 45-50 for the year, even though he spent 60% playing time in the midfield. These players don't grow on trees in finals! The likes of B Jack, Jed, Everitt, Cunningham & Rampe could/may get found out come finals time. GOODES WILL NEVER GET FOUND OUT. Never.

The blokes not even close to being past it. Goodes plays when HE'S READY - not when there's a vacancy in the best 22. Rocks in your head if you think otherwise....

On the other players, for my two bobs worth, Reid will eventually come in as a key defender or forward depending on the opposition, form of our key position players and/or injuries, one of Jetta & Rohan will come in as our wildcards (maybe as subs) around Round 21-23, Benny is a lock to return against Pies, LRT is effectively gawwwwwnnnn with the form of Pyke, Tippo, White & Mummy and Shaw is 50/50 and should only come in if we have injuries and/or form issues. I like the look of our back 6-8 and don't think it should change as good, strong settled backlines win flags. Always have, always will.

[Bloodthirsty]

STOP IT NOW! Goodes will come in straight away when he's ready. End of story. Ridiculous to think otherwise. You don't not play monuments & legends of the game when they're ready to go - regardless of how the team is traveling & whether it is a harsh call to drop a young bloke playing well. This is Goodes we're talking about! GOODES...

On top of the above argument, the guy played a fantastic month of footy 1-2 weeks before he injured his knee against Port. Note: I personally think he injured his knee last quarter of the Adelaide game and it never recovered.

Was also on track to kick 45-50 for the year, even though he spent 60% playing time in the midfield. These players don't grow on trees in finals! The likes of B Jack, Jed, Everitt, Cunningham & Rampe could/may get found out come finals time. GOODES WILL NEVER GET FOUND OUT. Never.

The blokes not even close to being past it. Goodes plays when HE'S READY - not when there's a vacancy in the best 22. Rocks in your head if you think otherwise....

On the other players, for my two bobs worth, Reid will eventually come in as a key defender or forward depending on the opposition, form of our key position players and/or injuries, one of Jetta & Rohan will come in as our wildcards (maybe as subs) around Round 21-23, Benny is a lock to return against Pies, LRT is effectively gawwwwwnnnn with the form of Pyke, Tippo, White & Mummy and Shaw is 50/50 and should only come in if we have injuries and/or form issues. I like the look of our back 6-8 and don't think it should change as good, strong settled backlines win flags. Always have, always will.

I agree with everything you're saying.

And regarding Morton - I love Mitch Morton, and I think he's an awesome footballer that should be in our side. However, I cannot suggest who to drop, after the likes of Rohan and Goodes takes BJ and Cunningham's spots - maybe Lamb gets outsed by someone too. Maybe Morton takes the spot (not position) of Shaw, since our backline is settled. But I'm sure this view will ruffle a few feathers though.