Fremantle interested in Jesse [Archive] - RWO

Ludwig

29th July 2013, 10:59 PM

Jesse would probably do very well playing regularly at the wide open expanses of Subi. Good luck to him if he does go - after what happened last year, we couldn't begrudge him if he still wants to leave and seek greater opportunity elsewhere.

If he continues to play the way he has this year, why would we let him go anywhere? He's been playing like a Travis Cloke that kicks straight. The season is far from over and let's see how it all pans out, but so far so good as far as Jesse is concerned.

If we are wondering about Reid, he would make a better defender anyway. Jesse up forward and Reid in defence solves the problem of what happens when Ted and LRT retire and Reg's kicking efficiency drops below 10%.

Also, there is no guarantee that AJ will play footy next year. One of the reports said that we are waiting for the LARS surgeon to decide what to do next. But AJ is at a worse stage than when he first did his ACL.

Melbourne_Blood

29th July 2013, 11:24 PM

If they do want him we should at least hopefully get something decent in return, that is unless he is a free agent or restricted free agent. Then we're pretty screwed. I doubt we'd be able to pay him anything close to what a cashed up team desperate for a big forward may offer him.

GongSwan

30th July 2013, 12:39 AM

I guess it will depend on whether he wants to go to WA. He'd be walking into a prety fair side and likely earning more. We couldn't stand in his way if he wants to go, and good luck to him

johnno

30th July 2013, 12:42 AM

1st Round pick or....Pavlich.

DeadlyAkkuret

30th July 2013, 01:13 AM

ScottH

30th July 2013, 08:52 AM

1st Round pick or....Pavlich.

I'd take Barlow.

Pav is past his prime.

AnsweredPrayers

30th July 2013, 09:07 AM

I think it will depend a bit on Mumford. If he leaves I think the Swans will move to keep JW.

liz

30th July 2013, 09:09 AM

I'd be a little annoyed if he left. He admits he never really pushed himself until now and it's not like he's been on small contracts.

If he left after finally deciding to give a stuff it'd be a bit of a slap in the face.

I have a suspicion that there won't be much left in the salary cap budget for White as the club would have been planning for him to not be around after this year. There can't be too much room to move. Add to this the fact that White will go back down the tall-man pecking order next season and will almost certainly be reliant on injuries to get senior games. If another club offers him more money than the Swans possibly can and, more importantly, the "promise" of more regular senior footy, I wouldn't begrudge him seeking opportunities elsewhere.

The outcome of the Mumford situation might change things, both in terms of Jesse's chances of senior football next year and the salary cap room available to him. Despite Jesse's improved form over the past month, Mumford remains a more important player for us by some margin, IMO.

Triple B

30th July 2013, 09:18 AM

I'd be OK with a straight swap with Silvagni who appears to be a bit like Jesse in that he is on the fringes but can't quite get a regular gig with Dawson and McPharlin holding down the key back posts. He would provide handy backup for Reg and Teddy at worst and could easily develop into a solid citizen in our backline.

Obviously no superstar, but despite his recent good form, neither is Jesse.

Jesse would need to produce at least his current output for the rest of the year and into finals before we could reasonably expect anything of value for him at the trade table. Even then, talk of 1st and 2nd round picks are fantasy, it just 'aint going to happen.

Cheer_Cheer

30th July 2013, 09:38 AM

There are still too many questions to be answered at seasons end to know how badly we need to keep Jesse.. Will Goodes retire ?

AnsweredPrayers

30th July 2013, 09:45 AM

I think White may have found a role for himself on the wing. He's a tough match up. We like to kick down the line out of defense and he provides a good alternative to the ruckman. He has the pace and the accuracy to hurt you on the transition from wing to CHF. Reid can play a similar role but doesn't impact the scoreboard. LRT doesn't have his pace and you have to question where he is at injury wise. All in all on current form I think JW will hold his spot.

As for salary cap I think it is an issue. Maybe Jude needs a nudge?

Alan

30th July 2013, 09:48 AM

As for salary cap I think it is an issue. Maybe Jude needs a nudge?[/QUOTE]

I think Jude & Adam are on veterans list so the contract value is not included in our cap, if not all then a %.

stellation

30th July 2013, 10:05 AM

If nothing else to take from this, it's probably nice for Jesse to hear his name mentioned in this way.

AnsweredPrayers

30th July 2013, 10:19 AM

I think we have six players on the veterans list: Adam Goodes, Jude Bolton, Ryan O'Keefe, Jarrad McVeigh, Nick Malceski and Lewis Roberts-Thompson. You get about $112k salary cap relief for each.

- - - Updated - - -

I could have added I love Jude and I think he has been an ornament to the game and the club. The Swans have a good history of list management (with the exception of first round draft picks) and I'm sure they'll sort it out. WRT Jessie I think he is good value and they'll try to keep him.

Ruck'n'Roll

30th July 2013, 10:20 AM

According to the RWO wiki (which I can't remember ever being wrong) his contract expires at the end of the season, so he can go into the preseason draft and get to Footscray (who are apparently crying out for a key forward) if he so desired. However to get to Freo, they'll need to do a deal with us. Could we dare ask for a 1st round draft pick?

stellation

30th July 2013, 10:24 AM

I'd be a little annoyed if he left. He admits he never really pushed himself until now and it's not like he's been on small contracts.

If he left after finally deciding to give a stuff it'd be a bit of a slap in the face.

That's a relatively hard line view to take. If he continues to play out of his skin and the best we can do in the off season is low dollars and tell him all things going to plan he's back to rucking the NEAFL next season (not saying it would be the case) it'd be a pretty harsh response to frown on him if he wanted to go to another club that can offer him more.

DeadlyAkkuret

30th July 2013, 10:35 AM

That's a relatively hard line view to take. If he continues to play out of his skin and the best we can do in the off season is low dollars and tell him all things going to plan he's back to rucking the NEAFL next season (not saying it would be the case) it'd be a pretty harsh response to frown on him if he wanted to go to another club that can offer him more.

True but I doubt we'll tell him that. Goodes isn't getting younger and LRT could struggle to be the player he once was.

We should be sticking with White.

Cant turn right

30th July 2013, 10:35 AM

I liked Gerard Healy's comment last night on 'On the Couch'

It went something like 'Last year Jesse was hardly worth 50c, but this year he's worth $500 000.'

wolftone57

30th July 2013, 01:46 PM

1st Round pick or....Pavlich.

Pav is contracted until the end of his career basically. But other than that we don't want old players we alrready have enough old champions of our own without getting other teams old champions.

Ludwig

30th July 2013, 01:46 PM

I have a suspicion that there won't be much left in the salary cap budget for White as the club would have been planning for him to not be around after this year. There can't be too much room to move. Add to this the fact that White will go back down the tall-man pecking order next season and will almost certainly be reliant on injuries to get senior games. If another club offers him more money than the Swans possibly can and, more importantly, the "promise" of more regular senior footy, I wouldn't begrudge him seeking opportunities elsewhere.

The outcome of the Mumford situation might change things, both in terms of Jesse's chances of senior football next year and the salary cap room available to him. Despite Jesse's improved form over the past month, Mumford remains a more important player for us by some margin, IMO.

I agree with most of this, but it's a bit presumptuous that Jesse will find himself back down in the pecking order once our injured talls are fit again. Surely the reason that he's managed to stay on our list so long was that we were waiting for the day that he would begin to perform up to his potential. If Jesse stays the course and puts in consistent performances, he will retain his spot through the finals (maybe even winning a premiership). Why would we trade him and why would he want to leave?

There are a few 'ifs' here and we've been let down before, but there's only a couple of months to go before we know where we stand. I think Jesse is ahead of Reid at CHF based on current form. Reid can play in defence. We will need KPDs in the coming years. White could help set our forward line for the next 6 years and Reid with AJ for the next 10.

If you look around the league, KPPs are at such a premium now, you have to find a way to keep the good ones that you've got. I also agree that we are likely to find ourselves with salary cap pressure, but usually teams manage to find to a way to sign the ones they want to keep. I am sure both Jesse and Mummy want to stay with the club.

wolftone57

30th July 2013, 01:58 PM

True but I doubt we'll tell him that. Goodes isn't getting younger and LRT could struggle to be the player he once was.

We should be sticking with White.

i don't think LRT will come back. I will be very surprised if he does not announce his retirement. Goodsie has only one to two seasons left and with injury the way it is maybe less.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree with most of this, but it's a bit presumptuous that Jesse will find himself back down in the pecking order once our injured talls are fit again. Surely the reason that he's managed to stay on our list so long was that we were waiting for the day that he would begin to perform up to his potential. If Jesse stays the course and puts in consistent performances, he will retain his spot through the finals (maybe even winning a premiership). Why would we trade him and why would he want to leave?

There are a few 'ifs' here and we've been let down before, but there's only a couple of months to go before we know where we stand. I think Jesse is ahead of Reid at CHF based on current form. Reid can play in defence. We will need KPDs in the coming years. White could help set our forward line for the next 6 years and Reid with AJ for the next 10.

If you look around the league, KPPs are at such a premium now, you have to find a way to keep the good ones that you've got. I also agree that we are likely to find ourselves with salary cap pressure, but usually teams manage to find to a way to sign the ones they want to keep. I am sure both Jesse and Mummy want to stay with the club.

With both Sam & Jesse playing their junior footy in defence it would not be a hard transition for either of them. But Sam is the obvious one as he is such a crap kick anywhere near goal, give him a long shot no worries. A really interesting comment during the Collingwood match was that Ben Reid played all of his junior footy at CHF and Sam played it at CHB.

- - - Updated - - -

I have a suspicion that there won't be much left in the salary cap budget for White as the club would have been planning for him to not be around after this year. There can't be too much room to move. Add to this the fact that White will go back down the tall-man pecking order next season and will almost certainly be reliant on injuries to get senior games. If another club offers him more money than the Swans possibly can and, more importantly, the "promise" of more regular senior footy, I wouldn't begrudge him seeking opportunities elsewhere.

The outcome of the Mumford situation might change things, both in terms of Jesse's chances of senior football next year and the salary cap room available to him. Despite Jesse's improved form over the past month, Mumford remains a more important player for us by some margin, IMO.

Liz I think you are forgetting that we will have retirements. Marty has already gone and his salary won't have been small. I think bolts, LRT & Shaw are likely to call it quits at the end of the season. I really don't think we have a problem fitting him in anyway as we have so many veterans. After we got Tippett we still had money left over.

Bloodthirsty

30th July 2013, 01:58 PM

The club invested in Reid as a forward because WHite wasn't performing and we didn't have Tippett. White and Tippett and resting rucks negate the need for Reid up forward, but I'd love to see him as a tall defender.

ShockOfHair

30th July 2013, 02:49 PM

Good luck to Jesse - Dockers have all that cash they were going to throw at Buddy. But I hope he stays. Am enjoying his form as much as anything this year.

Jeynez

30th July 2013, 03:06 PM

Swansongster

30th July 2013, 03:11 PM

We should do as much as we can to resign White, he is on the verge of a Tom Hawkins like breakout, and Ross Lyon clearly recognizes this. Although if he does wish to move for a more secure role, we can't really blame him. I'm not sure how we're going to be able to fit both he and Mummy into our salary cap though.

What a treat it would be to see Jesse stand up and almost single-handedly win a Grand Final for his team (as Hawkins did in 2011). Would that shut up the knockers?

Hawkins is actually a pretty good analogy for our Jesse.

wolftone57

30th July 2013, 03:12 PM

We should do as much as we can to resign White, he is on the verge of a Tom Hawkins like breakout, and Ross Lyon clearly recognizes this. Although if he does wish to move for a more secure role, we can't really blame him. I'm not sure how we're going to be able to fit both he and Mummy into our salary cap though.

By retiring players. There are some on the verge who I would bet will retire this year. We still had some money left after we got Tip so that also counts.

Doctor

30th July 2013, 04:27 PM

We also have some money from Mattner retiring?

ShockOfHair

30th July 2013, 04:37 PM

Jesse impressive even to the horizontal viewer:

Lyon interview: (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-07-30/dockers-keen-on-swan-white)

"I laid on the couch and watched [the Swans] on the weekend and he played as well as I've seen Jesse play."

Chilcott

30th July 2013, 06:05 PM

I had serious doubts about Jessie making it as a player, as I did with Grundy and McVeigh - says alot for my judgement.

I now hope that we can sign up Jessie for another 2 - 3 years.

BillyRayCypress

30th July 2013, 06:10 PM

This thread is funny to read. It could also be funny to Reid too.

PerthSwannie

30th July 2013, 07:52 PM

If it came to it. I`d love Michael Walters as a trade for JW. Walters is from Swan Districts. The same club as The Jettstar. They`d be a dynamic duo.......................:clap:

DA_Swan

30th July 2013, 08:50 PM

Melbournehammer

30th July 2013, 09:02 PM

Robbo on afl 360 reckons there are several clubs interested in Jesse and some of them are the really big name ones

Mountain Man

30th July 2013, 09:12 PM

i hope the club sticks to its guns and trades him because a list management plan should not change on the basis of seven or eight good games because a player is chasing a contract - "self interest" has seen this improvement - based on our recent track record for moving players I'll back the club to get it right.

We have traded/released a few (since say 2005), and none have really shone elsewhere.

BBBH, Scheidner, Buchanan, Vespremy, Johnston, Barlow, ??

I doubt even Jolly or Dempster would be guaranteed games at present.

Melbournehammer

30th July 2013, 09:20 PM

Can you in all seriousness say that dempster hasn't shone elsewhere ? The guy was on the cusp of all Australian

DK_

30th July 2013, 09:23 PM

Too think we would not have had this "problem" of what to do with Jesse if Adelaide had deemed him good enough to be included in the the trade for Tippett - now Jesse knowing that he has a great opportunity because of injuries to "prove" himself has a chance to get his next contract after being shown clearly by the club that he was surplus.
If Jesse is a potentially a wanted man - good luck to him - i hope the club sticks to its guns and trades him because a list management plan should not change on the basis of seven or eight good games because a player is chasing a contract - "self interest" has seen this improvement - based on our recent track record for moving players I'll back the club to get it right.

Maybe. Or maybe the public rejection by Adelaide was just the kick up the bum he needed to take an honest look at where he was at and how he was performing, and his current performance is a reflection of what he concluded. He wouldn't be the first person to benefit from a big wake up call! Who knows? I'm not pretending that I do.

A list management plan can and must change depending on where a player falls relative to expectations. Some fall short, some exceed them. Some never get their chance to prove it. I think Jesse's future will likely be clear by GF day. He looks to be loving it at the moment and I suspect that having had a taste of performing well, he'll want more. Just a case of whether he maintains performance over the next couple of months. If he continues this partnership of domination with Tippett, I can't see Horse letting him go easily. He is rather fond of multiple avenues to goal.

I wonder how he would have gone if Adelaide had taken him. By his own admission he was cruising up until then. Maybe he would have continued down that path until his next contract expired? We'll never know of course, but it's a classic sliding door. Reid's second injury is another one. Without that, he'd never have got a run in the CHF/wing role which clearly suits his talents far more than ruckman.

As an aside, other KPFs chasing a contract seem to have a habit of falling in a heap (Dawe, Cloke, Buddy).

Primmy

30th July 2013, 09:52 PM

This is getting Silly. Swans dont keep players they dont see potential in. Some blokes take time or are let go by other clubs who don't value them enough.

Like Ted, Joey ,Jolly too, Mummy, and etc.

I see it as all planets aligning, our patience paying off, and Jesse finally getting out of his frustrating straight jacket.. We may have to trade him and his stocks are high, but we have a player to be proud of, not one we 'let go'.

Personally I have invested a lot of energy into him and I want him to stay.

Auntie.Gerald

30th July 2013, 10:14 PM

if goodes accepts a smaller contract for 2014 given he has limped thru 2012 and 2013 and he is 57yrs of age then White will stay no doubt

barry

30th July 2013, 10:14 PM

Lets wait until jesse puts in a full afl standard season , or at least half a season

Captain

30th July 2013, 10:15 PM

TheAgent

30th July 2013, 10:22 PM

I still say that Jesse has always been a good forward/utility. The trouble has been when he has gone in the ruck where he is absolutely terrible.

We must keep him next year and play him in the correct position. Actually anywhere but in the ruck.

Reid to CHB. Jesse/Tippett as the tall forwards. Goodes/LRT the utilities. Obviously there will be injuries so doubt will all play together anyway.

I would tend to agree but I believe Jesse in the ruck does well around the ground, just not at the centre bounces.

For those worried about salary cap with Jesse and Mummy yet to sign: Marty has retired so there is around $300,000 spare and if Jude retires then I would put my money on O'Keefe moving onto the veterans list which should free up another $400-$500,000.

We need Jesse because LRT won't be around forever and a 25 year old tall in good form is hard to find. Remember Tom Hawkins....

Ludwig

30th July 2013, 10:25 PM

Jesse, in fact, started playing better footy last year in the reserves when he became the no. 1 ruckman. Probably the time on ball forced a change in his work ethic. He had no choice but to move from contest to contest. He seems to have carried it over into the preseason. And now he's putting it together in the seniors.

The history behind Jesse's rise to senior level is not all that relevant. It's about how he's performing now and the probability of his continuing that level of performance in the future. If by the end of the season he consistently plays like a quality CHF, the decision is simple. We have to keep him. Jesse pretty much played as well as Jack Riewoldt on Sunday. So that's about what he's worth. It took Jack a few year to get going, and he had some lean times before it all came together for him in his forth year; and he still goes through plenty of flat periods.

I was 100% sure Jesse would be out of the club at year end. But opportunity knocked and Jesse answered.

Let's rate Jesse on the merits. This book's not finished yet.

aardvark

30th July 2013, 10:50 PM

Hope we get a good trade.

liz

30th July 2013, 11:00 PM

Jesse pretty much played as well as Jack Riewoldt on Sunday.

Jesse was good on Sunday, no question about that. But he was playing as the third tall target in a forward line whose midfield was pounding forward entries into it. His opponent was about 10cm shorter than him. Riewoldt was the only competent tall target in a forward line and after quarter time, his midfield supply was pretty ordinary. His opponent was a 2012 All -Australian. Not really sure you can compare the two.

Ludwig

30th July 2013, 11:18 PM

Jesse was good on Sunday, no question about that. But he was playing as the third tall target in a forward line whose midfield was pounding forward entries into it. His opponent was about 10cm shorter than him. Riewoldt was the only competent tall target in a forward line and after quarter time, his midfield supply was pretty ordinary. His opponent was a 2012 All -Australian. Not really sure you can compare the two.

All this is true, but I still think Jesse played as well as Jack Riewoldt, who had a number of perfect passes hit him on the chest with Ted lagging behind (AA not withstanding).

Putting this in context of my post, I did praise Jesse's performance but emphasized that he needs to keep it up and we should evaluate him at the end of the season. I didn't mean to suggest that he is at the same level as Jack Riewoldt based on a few good games.

0918330512

30th July 2013, 11:18 PM

ShockOfHair

30th July 2013, 11:40 PM

Darren Jolly on Jesse:

I was in Sydney when Jesse White arrived in 2007. He was a talent who didn't know it. Tall, powerful, agile and quick, Jesse trained and played the game like I suspect footballers did 100 years ago. To his new teammates it seemed as if the game to Jesse was a quaint pastime, not a profession.

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/better-later-than-sooner-in-afl-draft-20130730-2qxct.html

Triple B

31st July 2013, 12:01 AM

Can you in all seriousness say that dempster hasn't shone elsewhere ? The guy was on the cusp of all Australian

On the cusp?

tasmania60

31st July 2013, 01:01 AM

Watched him for years and has frustrated me, no heart ,no go, no swan, swap for a backmen good choice

aardvark

31st July 2013, 08:15 AM

Disregard that he was a basketballer who was a relatively late starter as an AFL footballer, & a tall (who are notoriously late bloomers)..

Incorrect! He played footy from an early age and was drafted at 18.

AT A GLANCE: An athletic key position utility player and one-time junior basketball star who was a second-chance draftee to the Sydney Swans in 2006 after he was narrowly overlooked by the same club 12 months earlier. The son of a former VFA footballer and women?s national league basketballer, he was born in Melbourne but moved to Queensland with his family aged two. He lived and played football on the Gold Coast until 2004, when the family moved to Brisbane for him to finish his schooling at John Paul College. Even then, though, he retained his connection to Southport, where he had graduated through the ranks to play senior football in 2005-06 before missing the finals both years due to injury.

AFL Queensland: Jesse White (http://www.aflq.com.au/index.php?id=410)

stellation

31st July 2013, 08:33 AM

By all accounts it was far from his focus, though. He opted for rep basketball over footy at a key development age. So it explains why he's always had good foot skills for a big guy, but equally could explain why he has struggled reading the play or knowing where to position himself.

Auntie.Gerald

31st July 2013, 09:53 AM

Outliers (book) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book))

10000hrs sometimes more sometimes less :)

DA_Swan

31st July 2013, 01:36 PM

Incredible! I hope Jesse doesn't read this forum.
With so many he just can't take a trick. Not everyone (& I apologize to those who write positive things & want Jesse to stay & succeed)
Early in his career he shows promise but takes a while to deliver. Calls for him to be dumped or traded. Disregard that he was a basketballer who was a relatively late starter as an AFL footballer, & a tall (who are notoriously late bloomers).
Finally starting to show some of the form that so many hoped he would ... now cries of he's only doing it because his contract is up, or what can we get for him? Has he even said he wants out yet? & might it not be possible to take advantage of our plethora of mobile athletic talls?
I really hate to think what will be posted if/when we lose with our 3-4 talls all played ... no matter how many wins precede the loss or who we lose to.
No doubt there will be plenty of nay-sayers who will pin it on Jesse ...

Jesse has taken a trick - there have been a lot of injuries that have given him an opportunity to show his wares and the team has benefited which is great - given that he is un contracted and there would appear to be plenty of interest in him - his price has obviously gone up - who do we not upgrade or re sign to keep Jesse ? I hope not Lamb ? Everett or Mumford ?
I am sure the club would / could have re signed him earlier if that was their plan - we can't keep everybody - if we can great - that we have covered our injuries so well is fantastic and has no doubt got Jesse a new contract somewhere - good luck to him

Auntie.Gerald

31st July 2013, 04:10 PM

LRT, ROK and Goodes and a few others will need to take a smaller slice in their last season or two IF everyone wants to stay and go for 3 GFs !!!

thats if we make this one :)

Wazza

31st July 2013, 07:19 PM

Jesse was good on Sunday, no question about that. But he was playing as the third tall target in a forward line whose midfield was pounding forward entries into it. His opponent was about 10cm shorter than him. Riewoldt was the only competent tall target in a forward line and after quarter time, his midfield supply was pretty ordinary. His opponent was a 2012 All -Australian. Not really sure you can compare the two.
Not sure about the supply Jack was hit up nicely a few times nothing Richards could have done. I don't think Jesse was hit on the tit once and worked his !@$^off to get into position. As you said the ball was bombed in all night. It doesn't matter who your opponent is at AFL level defensive pressure in the FWD 50 is not a one on one proposition, Jesse had a few chances which he finished well, was his impact on the game greater than jacks ... I think yes he was a presence in our FWD 50 that Richmond struggled to cope with. Did Jack play his usual selfish game - at times yes I don't think its fair to say one played "better" but what was their impact on the final result.

Cheers

waz

rojo

31st July 2013, 11:44 PM

Love your turn of phrase Wazza!!:smile:

YvonneH

31st August 2013, 09:41 AM

Does anyone have any 'inside' information on how Jesse might be thinking now?

Wazza

31st August 2013, 11:05 AM

Im a huge fan of Jesse I drove the Jesse train for a few years but every time we left the station we ran out of fuel...if we can snag a decent CHB and I think there's a spare one over North Melb way, we should use him to get another tall defender to replace ... Grundy.

Cheers

Waz

wolftone57

31st August 2013, 11:59 AM

I have a suspicion that there won't be much left in the salary cap budget for White as the club would have been planning for him to not be around after this year. There can't be too much room to move. Add to this the fact that White will go back down the tall-man pecking order next season and will almost certainly be reliant on injuries to get senior games. If another club offers him more money than the Swans possibly can and, more importantly, the "promise" of more regular senior footy, I wouldn't begrudge him seeking opportunities elsewhere.

The outcome of the Mumford situation might change things, both in terms of Jesse's chances of senior football next year and the salary cap room available to him. Despite Jesse's improved form over the past month, Mumford remains a more important player for us by some margin, IMO.

bit confused about not having enough money in the salary cap Liz. Morton retiring, Marty & Bolts retiring and they both would have been on very good money. The players who replace them on the list are going to be on the bottom rate. I think there is plenty of room in the cap for Jesse, after all he would only command maybe 100,000 more than this year. Freo are not going to offer him Tippet or Buddy money and I don't think he wants to leave anyway as all his mates are here and he is an eastern seaboard native. I don't think he really wanted to go to Adelaide either but wasn't given much choice as the Swans were offering him up.

What I don't get too Liz is you are still seeing Jesse as a ruckman. He is now a Key Forward and playing that role very well and what Mummy does should have no impact on his situation what so ever. It will impact Pykie, Naismith and possibly whether we draft Dawes.

Ludwig

31st August 2013, 02:25 PM

bit confused about not having enough money in the salary cap Liz. Morton retiring, Marty & Bolts retiring and they both would have been on very good money. The players who replace them on the list are going to be on the bottom rate. I think there is plenty of room in the cap for Jesse, after all he would only command maybe 100,000 more than this year. Freo are not going to offer him Tippet or Buddy money and I don't think he wants to leave anyway as all his mates are here and he is an eastern seaboard native. I don't think he really wanted to go to Adelaide either but wasn't given much choice as the Swans were offering him up.

What I don't get too Liz is you are still seeing Jesse as a ruckman. He is now a Key Forward and playing that role very well and what Mummy does should have no impact on his situation what so ever. It will impact Pykie, Naismith and possibly whether we draft Dawes.

In fairness to Liz, whose post you were commenting on, Jesse has played 5 games since that post. First, I think Jesse will not be shuttled down the pecking order based on how he's been going this year. He is doing better in the forward role than Reid IMO. I am sure there will be a salary cap squeeze on if we try to sign both Mummy and Jesse, but somehow these things have a way of working out, especially if players want to stay on a successful team.

Doctor

31st August 2013, 06:22 PM

I'm sure I read somewhere that we will actually have enough money to go after someone else in additional to who we already have. I doubt that means that keeping White & Mummy as well is an issue, unless we're assuming that one of them is already gone.

BeeEmmAre

1st September 2013, 11:04 AM

And remember Jesse already has a healthy contract which he signed when the Suns were sniffing around. Despite his good form lately, I don't know if he'd get much more than that at all.

CureTheSane

1st September 2013, 02:00 PM

Jesse was out of place on Fri night I though.
He couldn't take a contested mark and the ball rebounded from the forward line over and over.
He was matched up and double teamed.
Pike or mummy should have been down there with him more.
Eventually Mummy made it there, but it was too late.

I have never really had much to say about White.
But of late I think he's becomes quite a valuable forward in a good set up.
His efforts have been great and his decision making generally good.
I think we will trade him though, as he could be a #1 forward for another club and will learn to deal with filling that role over time.

giant

1st September 2013, 02:59 PM

Ludwig

1st September 2013, 07:27 PM

The way I look at it is that Jesse's form has grown enormously this year, and it should be seen as a positive that he still has improvement in him. I agree that his contested marking and positioning in contested situations can improve a lot, as well as his defensive work. But I don't see why this shouldn't happen as he gains more senior game experience. If he ever turns into a complete player and reaches his full potential, he will be enormous, and I think there is every chance that will happen by this time next year. The question is whether this will be at the Swans or some other club. Why should we let him go, just when all the years of work we put into him is finally starting to pay off.

Auntie.Gerald

1st September 2013, 07:47 PM

No reason we couldnt teach jesse to play in the backline either ........except that he is now a very strong player upfront :)

Primmy

2nd September 2013, 08:53 AM

Very harsh, thought he was excellent again on Friday night.What giant said. You are kind of forgetting the first goal, and how it was achieved.

I would hate the club to move him on now, we have invested so much of our own energy into him.

Triple B

2nd September 2013, 09:47 AM

I would hate the club to move him on now, we have invested so much of our own energy into him.

Given his form in the second half of the season, I doubt very much the club will move him on willingly, but I can see a Geelong/Mummy situation developing here.

We went after Mummy and made him an offer he could scarcely refuse and an offer Geelong couldn't reasonably match given they had to juggle so many stars. The fact that it's proven to be a bargain buy at the price is not relevant because it's generally accepted that at the time it was over the odds and in hindsight the Swans pulled off a shrewd recruiting coup ... yet again.

I can see a club like the Bulldogs making Jesse a similar 'over the odds' offer that Jesse will more than likely take as even now there would still be a huge question mark on where he sits alongside Tippet and Sammy in the pecking order. The Swans may be disappointed to lose him, but will no doubt let him go with their blessing rather than get involved in a bidding war that could impact our ability to keep guys like Parker, Mitchell et al down the track.

CureTheSane

2nd September 2013, 11:03 AM

I didn't intend to sound harsh, just realistic.
Remember this is his first real go at it in the seniors - he is going to have some areas for improvement.
He's been stellar considering not only his relative short time in the side, but also what he is potentially dealing with inside his head "this is it, I need to perform here if I want to play on anywhere"
I dare say that he is feeling a lot better about his future now, so that will be a relief to him.

I'd like to keep him, and hope we do, but I'm wondering if we will end up with him.
I think he will be a top notch KP forward (soon)

jono2707

2nd September 2013, 11:13 AM

I hope we keep him too, but I think his value as more a utility type player will hold him in good stead. He doesn't do too badly when he lines up on a wing - he's mobile and a good target from the back line rebounds after all. He can pinch hit in the ruck too if required
- or even go on-ball on occasion. If he stays with us, I see a more varied role than just a stay at home forward.

aardvark

2nd September 2013, 12:17 PM

I didn't intend to sound harsh, just realistic.Remember this is his first real go at it in the seniors - he is going to have some areas for improvement.

He played 20 games in 2009 and 22 games in 2010.

stellation

2nd September 2013, 01:17 PM

He played 20 games in 2009 and 22 games in 2010.

It's probably a moot point, but the game totals were actually 18 and 20 for those years.

2009 he had the solid run to close the season as our main forward with Barry gone and did well. Coming into 2010 we grabbed Bradshaw and gave him that role and Jesse moved down the pecking order. When Braddy went down Jesse wasn't completely woeful, he kicked 17 goals from 12 games (from memory at least a couple of those games he played backup ruck as well) to close the season- which is circa 1.4 goals, which is pretty much right on Sam Reid's career best average from 2012. He memorably made way for Bradshaw to come back in to the side for the SF after a hell of a lot of weeks on the sidelines. 2011, 2012, start of 2013 he was mainly looked at to get a run as a backup ruckman, but we can probably say his best footy is played not having to shoulder that load.

aardvark

2nd September 2013, 02:15 PM

Straight swap for Fyfe...

Swansongster

2nd September 2013, 02:17 PM

It's probably a moot point, but the game totals were actually 18 and 20 for those years.

2009 he had the solid run to close the season as our main forward with Barry gone and did well. Coming into 2010 we grabbed Bradshaw and gave him that role and Jesse moved down the pecking order. When Braddy went down Jesse wasn't completely woeful, he kicked 17 goals from 12 games (from memory at least a couple of those games he played backup ruck as well) to close the season- which is circa 1.4 goals, which is pretty much right on Sam Reid's career best average from 2012. He memorably made way for Bradshaw to come back in to the side for the SF after a hell of a lot of weeks on the sidelines. 2011, 2012, start of 2013 he was mainly looked at to get a run as a backup ruckman, but we can probably say his best footy is played not having to shoulder that load.

Interesting you mention that. Sound familiar?

I'll never forget that night he came in underdone against the Dogs. We had the game won but couldn't hold them off. Braddie missed a few sitters from memory and largely couldn't contribute.

Is there a lesson there about rushing back experience that has been on the sidelines for a long time?

stellation

2nd September 2013, 02:21 PM

Straight swap for Fyfe...

In a heartbeat. :)

aardvark

2nd September 2013, 02:23 PM

In a heartbeat. :)

Ha, I knew we'd find common ground eventually.:smile:

Plugger46

2nd September 2013, 02:26 PM

Interesting you mention that. Sound familiar?

I'll never forget that night he came in underdone against the Dogs. We had the game won but couldn't hold them off. Braddie missed a few sitters from memory and largely couldn't contribute.

Is there a lesson there about rushing back experience that has been on the sidelines for a long time?

Hardly. Bradshaw took about 10 grabs and had about 8 shots at goal. We wouldn't have been in the game if he wasn't playing. He missed an absolute sitter in the third quarter but he certainly contributed.

Having said that, I agree that playing underdone players will bring you undone. I'm confident the club is across that though.

magic.merkin

2nd September 2013, 02:27 PM

Yeah but that game a flash in the pan doggies small kicked at least 1 crucial goal. Hooper I recall... Also harbrow running amok down back, ran past Moore a few times :(.

Also Bradshaw had 13 disposals, 9 marks and kicked 3goals 4... so i'd say he contributed. Just missed a few sitters :(

Doctor J.

2nd September 2013, 02:44 PM

I find it interesting how Jesse White is considered a bit parts player, by many Swans supporters and indeed the footy public in general. I was watching the Ess Rich game on Sat night (the worst game of footy I've seen all year), and a commentator, probably Brian Taylor made the comment about Michael Hurley being a genuine "A" grader of todays game. Got me thinking, geez Jesse's output in 2013 must be very close to Hurleys.

Sure enough:

AFL Player Comparison - FinalSiren.com (http://www.finalsiren.com/PlayerCompare.asp?SeasonID=2013&Compare=Go&PlayerName1=Jesse+White&PlayerName2=Michael+Hurley&PlayerName3=&PlayerName4=&SelectedPlayers=)

Kind of makes me think, we splash around the term A grader, or Jesse is seriously undervalued.

I'm a Jesse fan who has fallen off the bandwagon with an almightly thump, so much so that the pain has made me sceptical as to whether his 2nd half of 2013 is the real Jesse, or the version that frustrated the hell out of me will emerge. If it is the former, then Jesse is a keeper, but at what price? I would love for him and Tippett to be our version (only better) of the Buddy & Roughie show.

CureTheSane

2nd September 2013, 03:51 PM

He played 20 games in 2009 and 22 games in 2010.

Well, 'played' is the operative word there.
I consider him to have been in development.
This year, he has played.

dimelb

2nd September 2013, 04:07 PM

... I'm a Jesse fan who has fallen off the bandwagon with an almightly thump, so much so that the pain has made me sceptical as to whether his 2nd half of 2013 is the real Jesse, or the version that frustrated the hell out of me will emerge...
I'm in the same position.
I found very encouraging a response he gave in a recent interview. I can't quote him verbatim, but the gist of it was that he was told he wasn't working hard enough, and realised that all his playing career he had been relying on being bigger and faster than most of the kids he played with, but that he could no longer get away with that approach at seniors' level.
So he started working harder and we are enjoying the result. He may, of course, make a mistake now and then - who doesn't? - but I think we are seeing a permanent shift.
And I'm delighted to witness it.

DK_

2nd September 2013, 04:36 PM

I'm in the same position.
I found very encouraging a response he gave in a recent interview. I can't quote him verbatim, but the gist of it was that he was told he wasn't working hard enough, and realised that all his playing career he had been relying on being bigger and faster than most of the kids he played with, but that he could no longer get away with that approach at seniors' level.
So he started working harder and we are enjoying the result. He may, of course, make a mistake now and then - who doesn't? - but I think we are seeing a permanent shift.
And I'm delighted to witness it.

I agree with all of this. If the Swans pull off another heist to surpass even 2005, then Jesse's will be one of the great stories of the year. Written off, career dead in the water, but instead of giving up, he was honest enough with himself to see where he fell short and fix it. He didn't even really expect to get another chance, but instead he's become critical to our chances of hoisting the cup again. His hard work has paid off, even if we don't quite go all the way.

Primmy

2nd September 2013, 04:47 PM

Of all the players on the swans list Jesse is the one many of us have invested our energies into. Our "great White hope" as it were. I think we could all see his potential, and that is what has made Jesse so frustrating. He just did not live up to it on a consistent basis.

The thing now is that we don't want to come down with a thud again, and I don't think we will. One thing I think we can pretty much agree on is that this year there is a degree of consistency and urgency in Jesse's game which has been missing in the past. We may be vindicated yet for our belief in the boy.

Velour&Ruffles

2nd September 2013, 08:26 PM

Jesse was out of place on Fri night I though.
He couldn't take a contested mark and the ball rebounded from the forward line over and over.

Couldn't agree less. I thought Jesse was very good on Friday. If I was a Hawk supporter I would have viewed him as a constant threat.

aardvark

3rd September 2013, 12:03 AM

Couldn't agree less. I thought Jesse was very good on Friday. If I was a Hawk supporter I would have viewed him as a constant threat.

His first quarter was great.

The Big Cat

3rd September 2013, 12:28 AM

Roos said tonight on OTC that he thought it was Jesse's best game for the club.

liz

3rd September 2013, 01:26 AM

0918330512

3rd September 2013, 01:43 AM

I agree with all of this. If the Swans pull off another heist to surpass even 2005, then Jesse's will be one of the great stories of the year. Written off, career dead in the water, but instead of giving up, he was honest enough with himself to see where he fell short and fix it. He didn't even really expect to get another chance, but instead he's become critical to our chances of hoisting the cup again. His hard work has paid off, even if we don't quite go all the way.

Hmmm not an unfamiliar story at the Swans ... Luff, Kirk

- - - Updated - - -

We're already arguably on the tall side with Mumford, White, Pyke and Tippett. They couldn't all possibly be in the team if Goodes and Reid were also available.

The thing with all the talls you've named is that they are generally agile, quick, good hands, generally ok kicks (except Goodsey & Sammy ... & to a lesser extent Tipsy with set shots), tackle well & seem to do well even once the ball goes to ground. On a dry day, those big boys don't get any shorter & will prove a headache matchup for any opposition. Even if only 75% of them are performing well in any given game, how many opposition teams have the height to confer them?
Plus Goodsey can play midfield, Jesse to the wing, Pyke/Tippett/Mummy rotate forward/ruck ... imposingly versatile talls. Maybe not such good tall balance in the wet tho

Ludwig

3rd September 2013, 02:52 AM

Despite his run of good form, I'm still not sure where Jesse sits in the pecking order. We're already arguably on the tall side with Mumford, White, Pyke and Tippett. They couldn't all possibly be in the team if Goodes and Reid were also available. People on here may not agree but I doubt Jesse has pushed himself ahead of Reid (a fit Reid, I'm not talking about this season) in the eyes of the coaches. It still might be best for him to move to a club where he's highly likely to get regular games without waiting for injury to hit. If nothing else, he's ensured he'll have a few suitors come seasons end.

If Mumford leaves the equation definitely changes as far as his immediate future at the Swans is concerned.

It seems that Jesse is more than just in a good run of form, although we should wait to see how he holds up in the heat of the finals. I thought he actually turned the corner last year when his production lifted in the reserves, but he didn't get a chance in the seniors. He appears a much improved player this year and I suppose he fits in the pecking order on the basis of how he's performed during the second half of the season, which is up several notches from last year.

Although it appears that we are too tall, it seems to have worked so far. It's a bit of an illusion because Tippett is so huge, but plays like a Drew Petrie, who is 5 or 6 cm shorter. If you replace Tippett with Petrie, we would probably not see our forward line as being too tall. I haven't done the numbers, but off the top of my head I would say the the combined heights of our 4 talls are around the same as Hawthorn's quartet of Bailey, Hale, Buddy and Roughy. And I havn't heard anyone saying they are too tall. Plus, they have Gunston as well, so why not add Goodes for us? Just a few thought on the matter.

All that said, I do agree that we will be faced with a dilemma next year when we have more options to work out a better team balance. I am a big fan of Mummy. I thought he was BOG on Friday. But it seems that he is the odd man out, and not because he's not good, but rather because he is so good and can command of high draft pick, he's out of contract, and will never be worth more than now. I know Reg is contracted till 2015, but he is also my odd man out in the backline. Next year, I see White staying forward and the KPDs as Ted, AJ and Reid. Maybe we could do a deal with GWS trading both Mummy and Reg for picks 10 and 20. We'd do okay with 3 picks in the top 20. We can reassess the prospects of Ted's eventual replacement next year.

This year has been unusual for the number of injuries we had to key talls, but we can't play next year as if there will be a repeat performance. Even with the suggestions I've made with positions and possible trades, if everyone returns from injury, we will still find it hard to find a place for LRT and Dre, barring injuries, which is why I suggested trading Mummy and Grundy, replacing two 27 YOs with a couple of 18s, and building toward the future.

Auntie.Gerald

3rd September 2013, 08:04 AM

U2 - Stay (Faraway, So Close!) acoustic - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxzuqvXO4oc)

Triple B

3rd September 2013, 09:18 AM

I was watching the Ess Rich game on Sat night (the worst game of footy I've seen all year), and a commentator, probably Brian Taylor made the comment about Michael Hurley being a genuine "A" grader of todays game....

Most overhyped player in the game.

I'd still like him at the Swans because he can play both ends, but his career output to hype ratio is in the toilet..

Snake

3rd September 2013, 09:48 AM

Roos said tonight on OTC that he thought it was Jesse's best game for the club.
Agree, Jesse has really stepped up this year and taken his opportunities....

Dosser

3rd September 2013, 10:39 AM

Maybe we could do a deal with GWS trading both Mummy and Reg for picks 10 and 20. We'd do okay with 3 picks in the top 20. We can reassess the prospects of Ted's eventual replacement next year.

This year has been unusual for the number of injuries we had to key talls, but we can't play next year as if there will be a repeat performance. Even with the suggestions I've made with positions and possible trades, if everyone returns from injury, we will still find it hard to find a place for LRT and Dre, barring injuries, which is why I suggested trading Mummy and Grundy, replacing two 27 YOs with a couple of 18s, and building toward the future.

The Swans generally see 2nd round picks as a lottery, so they dont usually trade players for picks - they trade for other players.

Jewels

3rd September 2013, 10:47 AM

DeadlyAkkuret

3rd September 2013, 10:56 AM

DK_

3rd September 2013, 11:07 AM

dimelb

3rd September 2013, 11:23 AM

Pyke is 29, turns 30 next March, but he is different from nearly all other ruckmen in that he is only in his fourth season and has not been worn down by its demands, as (say) Jolly has. I think we can reasonably expect another two or three years from him, and if his learning curve continues he will end up as a celebrated player.
Having said that, Mummy is back in the number one ruck spot and we are seeing once again what he can do when injury free. He is, and will be for at least a couple more seasons, at the peak of his powers. I could tolerate it if he went to GWS, but I'd much rather he stayed where he is; I don't want to see him anywhere else, unless he goes to a bottom four team (he would go well at Melbourne), and if that were to happen there would be club officials killed in the rush to sign him.
I suspect we may lose LRT in the next season, and Jesse won't be doing much rucking if he stays. Tippett is, I think, in the same boat, wil fill in at ruck from time to time, but his day job is kicking goals.
And emerging in the background is Naismith, who seems to have got through his injuries and, judging by his last week's showing in the ressies, is back on development.
We can use all these blokes, but of them all I think a fit and firing Mummy is central to barging our way through the open door of opportunity we are now in.

- - - Updated - - -

Pyke is 29, turns 30 next March, but he is different from nearly all other ruckmen in that he is only in his fourth season and has not been worn down by its demands, as (say) Jolly has. I think we can reasonably expect another two or three years from him, and if his learning curve continues he will end up as a celebrated player.
Having said that, Mummy is back in the number one ruck spot and we are seeing once again what he can do when injury free. He is, and will be for at least a couple more seasons, at the peak of his powers. I could tolerate it if he went to GWS, but I'd much rather he stayed where he is; I don't want to see him anywhere else, unless he goes to a bottom four team (he would go well at Melbourne), and if that were to happen there would be club officials killed in the rush to sign him.
I suspect we may lose LRT in the next season, and Jesse won't be doing much rucking if he stays. Tippett is, I think, in the same boat, wil fill in at ruck from time to time, but his day job is kicking goals.
And emerging in the background is Naismith, who seems to have got through his injuries and, judging by his last week's showing in the ressies, is back on development.
We can use all these blokes, but of them all I think a fit and firing Mummy is central to barging our way through the open door of opportunity we are now in.

swansrob

3rd September 2013, 11:31 AM

If we do lose Mummy, there's a promising kid playing for Werribee in the VFL who's on North's list but not getting a senior opportunity. Goes by the name of Currie. Could be an option!

707

3rd September 2013, 12:45 PM

If we do lose Mummy, there's a promising kid playing for Werribee in the VFL who's on North's list but not getting a senior opportunity. Goes by the name of Currie. Could be an option!

Doubt it's an option, he just signed on for two more years

Keeping Mummy is a must IMO, and Jesse too!!

ShockOfHair

3rd September 2013, 01:01 PM

Mumford hasn't signed yet.

The Swans lured Mumford from Geelong on a lucrative four-year contract, but it's unlikely he will again be given such a long deal.

Mumford's manager, Anthony McConville, has said he has a ''relative amount of expectation'' during negotiations, but is open to a shorter contract.
Swans' tall order to re-sign tall timber (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/swans-tall-order-to-resign-tall-timber-20130902-2t15g.html)

We definitely need to keep all our talls though. Not just Pyke getting on. Richards is 31, LRT turns 30 next week. Even Goodes will have to retire one day.

With all these tall forward options what are the odds that Sam Reid ends up playing the same role as his brother?

Ludwig

3rd September 2013, 01:11 PM

Sorry, but anyone who thinks we should trade Mummy or not fight tooth and nail to hold onto him has rocks in their head! We are so far and away a better team out of the middle when Mummy is on his game it's crazy and unless they can do a repeat of the Jolly trade, Mummy is one player I hope and pray they are working on keeping.

Play the ball - not the man.

Comments about trading Mummy were in reference to team balance and if we could carry all the ruck/forwards at the same time. So there are questions about who would you drop, Mummy, Pyke, Tippett or White? Not that easy a choice. Who's not playing because all these 4 are? Are we better with the big 4 guys or not? Who would get the best value at the trade table?

This is a big picture view and not about whether I think Mummy is a major contributor on the field, which I clearly think he is. I would rather lose Mummy than White, because I think it allows Reid to take Grundy's spot in the backline and I like the long term look of a Reid-Johnson combination. It also opens an extra spot at HF for someone like Towers or Membrey.

And we should remember that we got picks 14 and 46 for Darren Jolly in 2009, which got us Jetta and was part of the compensation for JPK and McGlynn. Hawthorn used pick 46 for Ben Stratten (not too shabby). We won the Granny with Mummy hobbled and Jetta starring.

There's also the salary cap issue. Mummy would probably command around 200k more than Jesse. That could be used to help sign another important player down the line.

There are many more angles to look at this than just whether so and so is a good player or not. I don't think it's unreasonable to take a position to want to keep both Mummy and White, but if we could only keep one, I would rather keep Jesse.

Jewels

3rd September 2013, 01:41 PM

Play the ball - not the man.

Comments about trading Mummy were in reference to team balance and if we could carry all the ruck/forwards at the same time. So there are questions about who would you drop, Mummy, Pyke, Tippett or White? Not that easy a choice. Who's not playing because all these 4 are? Are we better with the big 4 guys or not? Who would get the best value at the trade table?

This is a big picture view and not about whether I think Mummy is a major contributor on the field, which I clearly think he is. I would rather lose Mummy than White, because I think it allows Reid to take Grundy's spot in the backline and I like the long term look of a Reid-Johnson combination. It also opens an extra spot at HF for someone like Towers or Membrey.

And we should remember that we got picks 14 and 46 for Darren Jolly in 2009, which got us Jetta and was part of the compensation for JPK and McGlynn. Hawthorn used pick 46 for Ben Stratten (not too shabby). We won the Granny with Mummy hobbled and Jetta starring.

There's also the salary cap issue. Mummy would probably command around 200k more than Jesse. That could be used to help sign another important player down the line.

There are many more angles to look at this than just whether so and so is a good player or not. I don't think it's unreasonable to take a position to want to keep both Mummy and White, but if we could only keep one, I would rather keep Jesse.
Goodness me, sensative much? My statement was simply a colloquial term I used to express my thoughts on the matter. And before you climb on that very high horse of yours, read my post properly, I did say UNLESS WE CAN DO A REPEAT OF THE JOLLY TRADE so much of your ramblings are generally pointless.
As for your last sentence....

rojo

3rd September 2013, 02:31 PM

CureTheSane

3rd September 2013, 03:39 PM

Even Goodes will have to retire one day.

I think you're a bit out of line there.
Don't say things that aren't true :D

Alan

3rd September 2013, 03:59 PM

Settle down boys, go outside if you are going to fight.

We should be mindful that Shane Mumford, like Jolly, may want to go home. We got a moderate return for loosing Jolly but we granted his wish and we may well have to do so with Mumford. No doubt when he rucks and tackles and plays like 6'9 midfielder he is awesome. But maybe his loss will be the catalyst for Jesse to improve further. For the record; I don't want to loose either of them.

Doctor

3rd September 2013, 04:08 PM

Note to all Forum posters. The words are spelled "Lose" and "Losing". Both only contain one "o".

Sorry to grumble, but it's the second most infuriating thing on this forum to me behind spelling the names of our own players incorrectly.

As you were. Cut loose.

Alan

3rd September 2013, 04:13 PM

Your so wright, Doc. Its much bettter wen we wynn, that way we dont even have to use the word....loss.

Far Reach

3rd September 2013, 04:19 PM

May I complement these posts with the word - or is that compliment?

Go Swannies

3rd September 2013, 04:32 PM

spelt?

jono2707

3rd September 2013, 04:42 PM

spelt?

I understand that Mummy is seeking more bread but that's not what he has in mind...

KTigers

3rd September 2013, 04:46 PM

It's hard to know with Pyke. Technically, he is "old". But his body hasn't taken 10 years of battering like most 29 year old players.
All the injuries this year proves we need to try and keep all the talls. LRT and Goodesy have a year max in them. That leaves Reid, Mumford,
Jesse, Pyke, Tippett and a couple younguns who may or not develop. Hopefully Jesse stays. It wouldn't be good to lose him just as he starts to play well most weeks.

stellation

3rd September 2013, 04:54 PM

bodgie

3rd September 2013, 04:54 PM

There's probably a fair bit of battering that went on in rugby union. Not a s much running though.

dimelb

3rd September 2013, 05:21 PM

There's probably a fair bit of battering that went on in rugby union. Not a s much running though.

Not as a back. Most of their time is spent in condolences with each other at how the forwards butcher the ball.

Primmy

3rd September 2013, 05:29 PM

Of line here, but did anyone else see Jesse and Reg sitting behind the judges during the X Factor on Sunday 1st? Just thought I would mention it. Because I can.

CureTheSane

3rd September 2013, 05:39 PM

0918330512

3rd September 2013, 06:25 PM

Your so wright, Doc. Its much bettter wen we wynn, that way we dont even have to use the word....loss.

So much wynning or is that whining?!

aardvark

3rd September 2013, 06:33 PM

I don't think it's unreasonable to take a position to want to keep both Mummy and White, but if we could only keep one, I would rather keep Jesse.

Hang on, so instead of keeping the bloke who was best on ground Friday night you'd rather keep the bloke who had 2 possessions in the second half.
I'm interested in hearing the logic behind that statement.

stellation

3rd September 2013, 06:36 PM

Of line here, but did anyone else see Jesse and Reg sitting behind the judges during the X Factor on Sunday 1st? Just thought I would mention it. Because I can.

You might just be the only one willing to admit you watch it. ;)

Ludwig

3rd September 2013, 07:28 PM

Hang on, so instead of keeping the bloke who was best on ground Friday night you'd rather keep the bloke who had 2 possessions in the second half.
I'm interested in hearing the logic behind that statement.

1. Of the Big 4 (Mummy, Pyke, Tippett and White) White offers something different in his speed and athleticism.
2. Despite Mummy being our best Ruckman, he will easier to replace than White. We have that position covered with the remaining 3 of the big 4.
3. Keeping White allows Reid to play back to form an attractive long term defensive duo of Reid and Johnson that could anchor our backline for 10 years.
4. I prefer the combination of Tippett and White to that of Tippett and Reid.
5. Mummy commands a higher salary, so if traded, releases more in salary cap, which could be used to attract or retain other players.
6. If White is traded out, then Reid will come back to the CHF position. We will still have the question of being too tall. And we will still have the problem of what our backline will be after Ted retires.
7. Mummy would definitely command a 1st round pick. I would guess about 1 round higher than White.
8. IMO White will be the next big thing. Whatever club he is at, by the end of 2014, we will all be talking about how he turned himself from a fringe player to a star CHF. He's got the tools, and he is now showing the desire.

I know it's controversial. I am going out on a limb here, and realise that Jesse could fold under the pressure of finals, in which case I will have to eat humble pie and change my view on all this. I also think that Mummy will have a dynamite finals and we will find it hard to let him go. I hope they both have great finals and we go all the way again, in which case I would suspect that we will find a way to keep both of them, which would please me to no end.

Primmy

3rd September 2013, 09:51 PM

You might just be the only one willing to admit you watch it. ;)Quite true Stella. Of course I record it, race through alllll the boring bits and there's Jesse's new facial hair. Lucky me, I get to pause and rewind, and there's Reg. From expression on their faces, I think it may be a one off.

DK_

3rd September 2013, 10:08 PM

1. Of the Big 4 (Mummy, Pyke, Tippett and White) White offers something different in his speed and athleticism.
2. Despite Mummy being our best Ruckman, he will easier to replace than White. We have that position covered with the remaining 3 of the big 4.
3. Keeping White allows Reid to play back to form an attractive long term defensive duo of Reid and Johnson that could anchor our backline for 10 years.
4. I prefer the combination of Tippett and White to that of Tippett and Reid.
5. Mummy commands a higher salary, so if traded, releases more in salary cap, which could be used to attract or retain other players.
6. If White is traded out, then Reid will come back to the CHF position. We will still have the question of being too tall. And we will still have the problem of what our backline will be after Ted retires.
7. Mummy would definitely command a 1st round pick. I would guess about 1 round higher than White.
8. IMO White will be the next big thing. Whatever club he is at, by the end of 2014, we will all be talking about how he turned himself from a fringe player to a star CHF. He's got the tools, and he is now showing the desire.

I know it's controversial. I am going out on a limb here, and realise that Jesse could fold under the pressure of finals, in which case I will have to eat humble pie and change my view on all this. I also think that Mummy will have a dynamite finals and we will find it hard to let him go. I hope they both have great finals and we go all the way again, in which case I would suspect that we will find a way to keep both of them, which would please me to no end.

I agree with pretty much all of this. BUT I also love the Mumford/Pyke combo. Pyke is best when he's released to take big grabs around the ground. Mumford does some awesome stuff in the ruck as well and is no slouch going both ways when Pyke is holding the fort. He's almost another midfielder once the ball's on the ground and will be very hard to replace.

I hope we can find room for them both. I think all this baloney about too many talls is just that - and mostly invented by Victorian media types who are worried about their favourite team's ability to hold them out. All four are mobile, athletic and fit. They're looking more fearsome each week and will be the backbone of our finals.

aardvark

3rd September 2013, 10:27 PM

1. Of the Big 4 (Mummy, Pyke, Tippett and White) White offers something different in his speed and athleticism.
2. Despite Mummy being our best Ruckman, he will easier to replace than White. We have that position covered with the remaining 3 of the big 4.
3. Keeping White allows Reid to play back to form an attractive long term defensive duo of Reid and Johnson that could anchor our backline for 10 years.
4. I prefer the combination of Tippett and White to that of Tippett and Reid.
5. Mummy commands a higher salary, so if traded, releases more in salary cap, which could be used to attract or retain other players.
6. If White is traded out, then Reid will come back to the CHF position. We will still have the question of being too tall. And we will still have the problem of what our backline will be after Ted retires.
7. Mummy would definitely command a 1st round pick. I would guess about 1 round higher than White.
8. IMO White will be the next big thing. Whatever club he is at, by the end of 2014, we will all be talking about how he turned himself from a fringe player to a star CHF. He's got the tools, and he is now showing the desire.

I know it's controversial. I am going out on a limb here, and realise that Jesse could fold under the pressure of finals, in which case I will have to eat humble pie and change my view on all this. I also think that Mummy will have a dynamite finals and we will find it hard to let him go. I hope they both have great finals and we go all the way again, in which case I would suspect that we will find a way to keep both of them, which would please me to no end.
Ok. I think you're over optimistic regarding Jessie but I'm happy to be wrong. I think there's plenty of room to keep both if that's what the club wants so hopefully we'll go back to back, mummy will stay and Jesse's fans will be right. But if it came to a choice between the two I'm not sure you'd have too many friends.

Triple B

3rd September 2013, 11:20 PM

I'd prefer to delay judgement on #4 until they actually get to play together...

ernie koala

3rd September 2013, 11:26 PM

Ok. I think you're over optimistic regarding Jessie but I'm happy to be wrong. I think there's plenty of room to keep both if that's what the club wants so hopefully we'll go back to back, mummy will stay and Jesse's fans will be right. But if it came to a choice between the two I'm not sure you'd have too many friends.

I've loved watching Whites rise this season ...but...I'm with you Aardvark ....

Non comparable...There isn't a club in the land that would take White ahead of Mummy......Oh wait..... maybe the pre Roos Demons would of.

Melbournehammer

4th September 2013, 04:37 AM

I've loved watching Whites rise this season ...but...I'm with you Aardvark ....

Non comparable...There isn't a club in the land that would take White ahead of Mummy......Oh wait..... maybe the pre Roos Demons would of.

That is precisely ludwigs point. Mummy gets you a first round draft pick to (p155 up against a wall) Jesse maybe gets you a second round pick - see points 5-7.

For me personally - I hope Jesse makes the most of himself and his career. Instinctively I think he is playing about as well as he can and we are unlikely to see quantum improvements. 15 possession two goals should become what we expect from him. The real question is whether that is enough

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But isn't it great that we are now having this debate about his role in the club as a possible first team player into the future, rather than the dreaded list clogger debate that has been bandied about over the past few years

ernie koala

4th September 2013, 12:28 PM

That is precisely ludwigs point. Mummy gets you a first round draft pick to (p155 up against a wall) Jesse maybe gets you a second round pick - see points 5-7.

Points 5 -7 are fine...But I'm not sure I'm running with points 2,4 and 8.

I too love the optimism....But ,"White will be the next big thing"....that's a stretch.

magic.merkin

4th September 2013, 12:47 PM

I'd prefer to delay judgement on #4 until they actually get to play together...
You must have sneezed and missed the first 10mins of the 1st qrtr VS Dees. :tongue:

haha, i guess we need a larger sample size

Matimbo

4th September 2013, 02:02 PM

I hope we can re-sign both Mummy and Jesse, particularly with a question mark over the bodies of Goodesy and LRT holding up next year. If these latter two are fit and up for selection as well as Reid, Jesse would be the one most likely squeezed out along with Everitt. So if it had to be a choice between keeping Jessie or Mummy I would keep Mummy. He is our number 1 ruckman, just getting back to peak fitness after his long run with injury. With an injury free pre-season he will be mighty next year! And he and Pyke work well in tandem. Next year we should be aiming for, if not a 3-peat, a 2nd premiership within 3 years.

Re Mummy, I agree with other posters that he is our #1 ruckman and that the team seems to go better with him in the middle. I've always thought JK in particular seems to have his best games with Mummy on the field (just my impression, would be interested if the stats support this). No club wants to lose their #1 ruckman if they can avoid it.

Re Jesse, the article about him mid this year made me sit up and take notice. He talked about having finally learned that where he got by in the past with natural athleticism, he had to work much harder at AFL level. I got the sense that he'd finally matured mentally from a gifted amateur into a professional footballer. Mummy, Pyke and Tippett are KPPs that the opposition will have their obvious match-ups for. On the other hand, having Jesse roaming from wing to CHF in addition can be a much harder match up. For this reason I want us to try to retain Jesse.

ernie koala

4th September 2013, 02:25 PM

New article on AFL site....."Mummy set to sign"......according to Mike Pyke that is.

Read into that what you will, but it's a promising story released on the AFL website....That'll do me.

'Mummy' set to be wrapped up, says Pyke - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-04/swans)

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The Swans have now released the same story with the far less certain title..."Pyke HOPES Mumford partnership will continue.......hmmmm.....not so bullish

magic.merkin

4th September 2013, 02:29 PM

awesome!

regardless loved hearing Pyke.

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New article on AFL site....."Mummy set to sign"......according to Mike Pyke that is.

Read into that what you will, but it's a promising story released on the AFL website....That'll do me.

'Mummy' set to be wrapped up, says Pyke - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-04/swans)

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The Swans have now released the same story with the far less certain title..."Pyke HOPES Mumford partnership will continue.......hmmmm.....not so bullish

still... its a pyke article and they are leading with heading about Mumford... Pressure? Or a nod?

ernie koala

4th September 2013, 02:35 PM

It's interesting that they chose to change the title so dramatically.

ShockOfHair

4th September 2013, 02:47 PM

It's interesting that they chose to change the title so dramatically.

Understandable. Not a good time to be offending Mummy and his manager (ie, during the critical period of contract negotiations).

dimelb

4th September 2013, 02:59 PM

It's interesting that they chose to change the title so dramatically.

Well, it's not an article that's been edited. They are two different takes on the same media interview, the AFL one by James Dampney, the Swans one by Tanya Paolucci. I'd be reluctant to read anything into it about Mummy's future, and I expect that he will want to stay. Mind you, I think he may want to be paid a bit more, and I also think he deserves it. I'll trust the club to get it sorted after the GF!

Ludwig

4th September 2013, 04:10 PM

I wonder how much of challenge it is to sign all of Mummy, White and Lamb, given that at the start of the season we probably thought White would be gone and Lamb had not played a senior game. But all 3 have come on strong at the end of the season. We've given out a few multi-year contracts during the year, so there may not be much left in the till. I also wonder if there have been some behind the scenes trade talks concerning these 3, just to assess the options.

Auntie.Gerald

4th September 2013, 04:22 PM

im not too worried as we have a massively deep list right now

Going = Morton, Bolton, Lockyear?, Biggs? and Dre? to move on to greater opportunities ?

Need = to maintain our as it has so much upside !!!........maybe another tall or two unless Jessie stays and if jesse does stay i am comfortable for Reid to play in the backs for one season "IF" jesse maintains the rage !

I am still hopeful though for Xavier, Brown and

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im not too worried as we have a massively deep list right now

Going = Morton, Bolton, Lockyear?, Biggs? and Dre? to move on to greater opportunities ?

Need = to maintain our as it has so much upside !!!........maybe another tall or two unless Jessie stays and if jesse does stay i am comfortable for Reid to play in the backs for one season "IF" jesse maintains the rage !

I am still hopeful though for Xavier, Brown and

rojo

4th September 2013, 05:33 PM

I think too many are forgetting that next year both Goodesy and LRT may be very much in the mix. It is a complete unknown, but if they are, how is Jesse going to get a game, no matter how deserving? If LRT was put in the backline to help out with the monster forwards, we would have KT, Mummy and Pyke as is now, plus Goodes, Reid and Jesse. Even if Mummy moved on, Jesse would still not be guaranteed a game. If he is made a good offer from another club he would have to give it serious consideration.

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http://redandwhiteonline.com/forum/images/smilies/hmmmm2.gif:hmmmm2:

Ludwig

4th September 2013, 06:33 PM

Stories about Jesse or Mummy moving on make you think about the composition of the team next year, how hard should we try to keep them and who are the more important players in the overall makeup of the team.

If you take the current team, then add the injured regulars (I count 6) and then add to that some of the more promising youngsters running around in the 2nds, you have over 30 players that seem to be deserving of a spot in the side.

If none of the current team are moved on, then there's going to be a lot of players fighting for a few spots. I think LRT, Dre and Grundy may all be vying for only one spot at best. And it's hard to see who gets dropped if Rhyce plays. As of now, its only Jude that's retiring, so at least 5 players from the this week's projected 22 plus injured players to return may miss out. But who? You can't have Mummy, Pyke or White playing reserves football waiting for someone to get an injury to get a game. If we don't think they are walk up starters then they should be traded. Personally, I think all 3 are more than deserving based on current form, but may be traded nonetheless for other reasons, e.g., salary cup constraints.

aardvark

4th September 2013, 07:13 PM

Just a reminder Marty Mattner retired too.....

Pmcc2911

4th September 2013, 07:22 PM

If you turned the clock back 365 days we could have been having a similar discussion, albeit with some different names. With the injuries we have had this year we have need the depth of players.
We need the fringe players like Dre, Lamb and arguably White to fill the gaps, (we can't rely on unearthing young guns every year)

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If you turned the clock back 365 days we could have been having a similar discussion, albeit with some different names. With the injuries we have had this year we have need the depth of players.
We need the fringe players like Dre, Lamb and arguably White to fill the gaps, (we can't rely on unearthing young guns every year)

Velour&Ruffles

4th September 2013, 09:01 PM

I think all this baloney about too many talls is just that - and mostly invented by Victorian media types who are worried about their favourite team's ability to hold them out. All four are mobile, athletic and fit. They're looking more fearsome each week and will be the backbone of our finals.

Great comment.
The issue is not how tall people are but how mobile. Jesse is extraordinarily quick and mobile for someone with his power (witness some of his chases in recent weeks) and there are many smaller players in the league who are slower and less athletic than the other three. I recall the media saying little more than a year ago that two-ruckman teams were dead and buried. The 2012 premiership changed that thinking. And seeing some of Tippo's running snaps he could just as easily be 183 cm rather than 203 cm. I see absolutely no reason why all four can't be in the same team.
It is also great to have a point of difference from other teams. Having four genuinely big guys could be a huge opportunity rather than a problem. What we need to do is work out a gameplan which makes full use of it (as opposed to the "just bomb it to Tippo" nonsense of a few weeks ago).

DK_

4th September 2013, 09:37 PM

Great comment.
The issue is not how tall people are but how mobile. Jesse is extraordinarily quick and mobile for someone with his power (witness some of his chases in recent weeks) and there are many smaller players in the league who are slower and less athletic than the other three. I recall the media saying little more than a year ago that two-ruckman teams were dead and buried. The 2012 premiership changed that thinking. And seeing some of Tippo's running snaps he could just as easily be 183 cm rather than 203 cm. I see absolutely no reason why all four can't be in the same team.
It is also great to have a point of difference from other teams. Having four genuinely big guys could be a huge opportunity rather than a problem. What we need to do is work out a gameplan which makes full use of it (as opposed to the "just bomb it to Tippo" nonsense of a few weeks ago).

I agree. You don't really see just how fast Jesse is on TV, but at the game you see the ground he covers and the speed he does it at - usually to cut off opposition rebounds or switches. And who will forget when he burned off Adelaide's Brodie Smith to kick one of the goals of the year? Jetta would have been happy if he'd pulled that off.

Pyke played full-back in international rugby, a sweeping position in defence and extra man in attack. While they are usually out-paced by the wingers, a full-back doesn't get far without some serious speed. I suspect he's sacrificed some of that speed for size to compete in the ruck, but he's still no slouch.

Mumford is not so much fast as mobile. He works extremely hard both ways. More so than some of his shorter midfield opponents IMO.

I'm excited about seeing how Longmire employs his attack this week. All bets will be off and we'll finally see what he's been working up to!