Round 20: Brisbane Lions Reserves v Sydney Swans Reserves

[ugg]

Helter Skelter
NEAFL Round 20

Brisbane Lions Reserves v Sydney Swans Reserves
Saturday 3rd August 2013 1.30pm
Coorparoo - Giffin Park

Both teams will be fresh coming off the bye, but the Lions are in far ruder health than the Swans and will go into the match as favourites having won the two previous clashes this year. The Swans had a morale boosting away win over the Suns magoos in Round 18 while the Lions were pipped at the post by a desperate NT Thunder side.

With just 3 rounds to go in the home and away fixtures, both the Swans and Lions have booked their place in their respective conference finals but will be keen to build some form and momentum going into the finals.The Swans can still claim the minor premiership but realistically will need to win all 3 remaining games to steal the title from the Belconnen Magpies.

Eastern Conference Ladder
Team|Played|Wins|Losses|Draws|Byes|For|Against|Per centage|Points
Belconnen|16|11|5|0|3|1861|1414|131.61%|44
Sydney Swans Reserves|15|10|5|0|4|1663|1173|141.77%|40
Ainslie|16|9|7|0|3|1564|1435|108.99%|36
Eastlake|15|9|6|0|4|1214|1288|94.25%|36
UWS Giants|15|8|7|0|4|1746|1360|128.38%|32
{colsp=10}-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Queanbeyan|15|7|8|0|4|1357|1544|87.89%|28
Sydney Uni|15|6|9|0|4|1414|1417|99.79%|24
Hills Eagles|15|5|10|0|4|1344|1605|83.74%|20
Tuggeranong|15|2|13|0|4|752|1847|40.71%|8


Northern Conference Ladder
Team|Played|Wins|Losses|Draws|Byes|For|Against|Per centage|Points
Brisbane Lions Reserves|15|13|2|0|3|1786|1054|169.45%|52
Southport|15|12|3|0|3|1601|1134|141.18%|48
Aspley|16|10|5|1|2|1721|1296|132.79%|42
Gold Coast Suns Reserves|16|9|6|1|2|1618|1477|109.55%|38
NT Thunder|15|9|6|0|3|1761|1410|124.89%|36
{colsp=10}-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morningside|16|9|7|0|2|1582|1392|113.65%|36
Redland|15|8|7|0|3|1459|1346|108.40%|32
Broadbeach|16|6|10|0|2|1279|1588|80.54%|24
Labrador|15|1|14|0|3|953|1847|51.60%|4
Mt Gravatt|15|1|15|0|2|977|2024|48.27%|4


Past Meetings
2013
R7 Reserves 11.15 (81) defeated by Brisbane Reserves 15.14 (104) @ SCG

Goals: Morton 5, Towers 2, Perris, Everitt, Robinson, Jack
Best: Walsh, Morton, White, Mitchell, Everitt, Richards

R15 Reserves 9.3 (57) defeated by Brisbane Reserves 19.11 (125) @ Blacktown International Sports Park

Goals: Towers 2, Cunningham 2, Membrey 2, Davis, Lycakis, Marsh
Best: Cunningham, Lloyd, Armstrong, Wray


2012
R8 Brisbane Reserves 11.20 (86) defeated by Reserves 18.12 (120) @Yeronga

The Reserves travelled to Brisbane to upset the Lions who aided the Swans by being incredibly wasteful in front of goal. The Swans stormed to a 6 goal lead at quarter time and maintained a 4 goal lead at the main break and despite a couple of Lions surges in the 2nd half, confidently withstood the fusillade of shots from Brisbane to win quite comfortably. Mitch Morton continued his goal glut by bagging 8 to complement his 10 the previous week. Captain Jarred Moore dominated the stoppages yet again aided by the taps of big Canuck Mike Pyke

Goals: Morton 8 Walsh 2, Davis, Thurgarland, Spangher, Cunningham, Moody, Bosschieter, Moore, Meredith
Best: Moore, Pyke, Walsh, Cunningham, Biggs, Heath


R16 Reserves 16.7 (103) defeated by Brisbane Reserves 17.20 (122) @ Sydney Cricket Ground

The Swans for a variety of reasons had plenty of regulars missing and a very strong Lions outfit took advantage of their absence to record a strong away win. Truth be told, if they had converted a higher number of their set shots, the game would have been over early in the 2nd half. Tommy Walsh stood up in the absence of his forward line teammates to take strong grabs, and finished with a deserved 3 goals. Brett Meredith provided plenty of run and dash from the half back line while Trent Dennis-Lane continued to impress onlookers in his new hybrid midfield-forward role.


Goals: Broome 3, Parker 3, Dennis-Lane 3, Walsh 3, Moore, Krochmal, Mitchell, Lamb
Best: Walsh, Meredith, Dennis-Lane, Heath, Plug, Parker

R21 Brisbane Reserves 13.8 (86) defeated by Reserves 17.15 (117) @ Yeronga

The Reserves coped well without leading goalkicker Mitch Morton with his replacement Trent Dennis-Lane kicking 5 goals and the two talls Matt Spangher and Tommy Walsh 3 each. It was the impressive use of the ball by Andrejs Everitt that saw him named best on ground alongside midfield general Jarred Moore. Campbell Heath yet again led the defence superbly, blanketing the Lions tall forwards.

Goals: Dennis-Lane 5, Spangher 3, Walsh 3, McNeil 2, Everitt 2, Cunningham Gordon
Best: Everitt, Moore, Heath, McNeil, White

Recent Form
Reserves
Round|Team|Venue|Result|F|A
R1|BYE|
R2|UWS|Away|WIN|107|102|
R3|Gold Coast|Home|WIN|110|65|
R4|Tuggeranong|Away|WIN|237|40|
R5|Hills Eagles|Home|WIN|148|86|
R6|BYE|
R7|Brisbane|Home|LOSS|81|104|
R8|UWS|Away|WIN|127|78|
R9|Queanbeyan|Home|WIN|151|38|
R10|Ainslie|Away|WIN|123|49|
R11|Belconnen|Home|WIN|140|49|
R12|Gold Coast|Away|LOSS|50|70|
R13|BYE|
R14|NT Thunder|Away|LOSS|59|112|
R15|Brisbane|Home|LOSS|57|125|
R16|Eastlake|Away|WIN|109|49|
R17|UWS|Home|LOSS|79|142|
R18|Gold Coast|Away|WIN|85|64|
R19|BYE|



Lions Reserves
Round|Team|Venue|Result|F|A
R1|BYE|
R2|Morningside|Away|WIN|144|57|
R3|UWS|Home|WIN|101|62|
R4|Gold Coast|Away|WIN|180|70|
R5|Broadbeach|Home|WIN|136|56|
R6|Gold Coast|Away|WIN|111|79|
R7|Swans Reserves|Away|WIN|104|81|
R8|BYE|
R9|UWS|Away|WIN|48|136|
R10|Southport|Away|WIN|88|76|
R11|Gold Coast|Home|LOSS|70|117|
R12|BYE|
R13|Labrador|Away|WIN|134|35|
R14|Aspley|Home|WIN|134|86|
R15|Swans Reserves|Away|WIN|125|57|
R16|Gold Coast|Home|WIN|107|85|
R17|Redland|Home|WIN|133|55|
R18|NT Thunder|Home|LOSS|83|90|
R19|BYE|


Last Round
Gold Coast Suns Reserves 9.10 (64) defeated by Reserves 12.13 (85) @ Metricon

Goals: Rohan 3, Membrey 3, Plug 2, Head, Cox, Armstrong, Morton
Best: Robinson, Biggs, Armstrong, Brown, Perris, Hadden

NT Thunder 12.18 (90) defeated Brisbane Lions Reserves 11.17 (83) @ TIO Stadium

Goals: Karnezis 4, Cornelius 2, Rutledge, Paparone, Banfield, Hammelmann, Bartlett
Best: Crisp, Newell, O'Brien, Karnezis, Wearden

Team List
Listed players
#|Name|Games|Goals|Votes|Notes
1|Tim MEMBREY|11|27|4|Continues to contribute without getting any real 'official' recognition.
7|Harry CUNNINGHAM|9|7|17|(seniors emergency) Two sub's vests to add to his lone vest last year. Will slot straight back into the midfield.
10|Mitch MORTON|7|27|13|(seniors emergency) Incredibly quiet by his standards with a return of only 1 goal in the past 2 matches.
16|Gary ROHAN|2|5|0|Return progressing ahead of schedule, there's been whispers that he could be a chance for the finals but the next step will be to play a full reserves game. Captain for the day.
19|Tony ARMSTRONG|9|1|10|Future not looking particularly bright after Biggs leapfrogged him in the half-back pecking order.
22|Dean TOWERS|13|18|2|
23|Jordan LOCKYER|15|1|3|Had his best game, or best portion of 1 game, against the Lions tall target man Aaron Cornelius in the last meeting of these two sides.
27|Daniel ROBINSON|14|9|13|Was the last man left standing as the only listed player available for midfield action against the Suns, but excelled and earnt praise from Crouch.
28|Matthew DICK|11|3|0|
36|Alex BROWN|15|3|15|After a quiet middle part to the season, earnt his first vote in 7 matches last week.
42|Xavier RICHARDS|12|0|10|Severely missed in the last Swans-Lions reserves clash, he will be a welcome addition to battle Brisbane's wealth of tall forward talent
44|Jake LLOYD|14|11|38|Missed his first game of the year last week still recovering from the heavy knock suffered against the Giants 3 weeks ago.

Changes
In: Cunningham (seniors), Towers (traveling emergency), Lloyd (concussion)
Out: Rhyce SHAW (seniors), Shane BIGGS (traveling emergency)

Cunningham and Lloyd will boost the depleted on-ball division while Towers could be slotted either up forward where he has played his best Swans football or downback to replace the run and rebound of Biggs and Shaw.

Academy Players/Topups
#|Name|Games|Goals|Votes|Notes
47|Lloyd PERRIS|4|1|4|
48|Doug HADDEN|8|2|5|
49|Jack McKINLAY|3|0|0|
51|Daniel COX|2|2|0|
52|Jarred ELLIS|0|0|0|
53|Stephen WRAY|11|2|1|
54|Yarran JAFFER-WILLIAMS|5|3|1|
58|Thomas HEAD|6|6|1|
59|Jacob DAWES|2|0|0|
60|Jordan WEIR|13|5|1|


In: Ellis, McKinlay
Out: James DUNN, Brad PLUG, Levi SANDS

Perris and Hadden both earnt votest for their games against the Suns Reserves, and in Perris' case it was his second consecutive polling game. The midfield isn't as thin this week but he will probably stlil get a run in there some time. Dawes is filling in the gap as the side's number one ruckman but has a Herculean task playing against Longer, Martin and Michael.

Reserves leading goalkickers

Mitch Morton 27 (7)
Tim Membrey 27 (11)
Jesse White 23 (9)

For full list: 2013 Goalkickers - RWOwiki (http://www.redandwhiteonline.com/wiki/index.php/2013_Goalkickers)

Reserves leading votegetters

Jake Lloyd 38 (14)
Jed Lamb 24 (7)
Jesse White 24 (9)

For full list: 2013 Best Votes - RWOwiki (http://www.redandwhiteonline.com/wiki/index.php/2013_Best_votes)

Brisbane Lions Squad
|||
B:|33. Michael CLOSE|45. Jordon BOURKE|46. Sam MICHAEL|
HB:|4. Jared POLEC|37. Patrick WEARDEN|31. James POLKINGHORNE|
C:|25. Richard NEWELL|35. Ryan LESTER|22. Marco PAPARONE|
HF:|28. Patrick KARNEZIS|9. Ash McGRATH|44. Aaron CORNELIUS|
F:|18. Todd BANFIELD|19. Jordan LISLE|12. Stefan MARTIN|
Foll:|5. Billy LONGER|47. Jack CRISP|13. Callum BARTLETT|
Int:|59. Hayden BERTOLI-SIMMONDS|56. Lewis RADFORD|54. Sam GRIBBLE|
|51. Aidan RUTLEDGE|55. Cameron STEVENSON|53. Bill PENDLEBURY


In: Close, Gribble, Lester, Lisle, Longer, McGrath, Martin, Pendlebury, Radford, Stevenson
Out: Riley BLUNDELL, Darcy CAMERON-REEVES, Daniel DAYE, Sam DOCHERTY, Matthew HAMMELMANN, Niall McKEEVER, Jesse O'BRIEN, Archie SMITH, Jacob WATSON

The Lions dominated in the height department during the Blacktown game and look to have the advantage again on paper. Longer, Michael and Martin all have played as ruckmen in the AFL and with the added height of tall forwards Cornelius, Paparone and Lisle, look to have the potency to punish the Swans on the scoreboard.

Karnezis excelled for them creating a lot of chances with his run and distribution from half back and also his ability to push forward and kick goals while the ability of Newell to be an effective tagger should not be underestimated. Expect him to run with Lloyd.

[wolftone57]

I believe Sam Naismith isn't far away Ugg. According to Matt Cameron he is training with the main group and wasn't far away from being selected this week. Maybe next week as the Twos could do with him back in the side. Dawes looks to be a pretty good ruckman and if paired with Naismith it could be a very good pairing. That would leave Thomas Head to play FF where he is very dangerous.

[dimelb]

Thanks ugg for your usual expert presentation.
I look forward to hearing more about this match, seems it will be played on slightly even terms than the last few as our wounded begin to return to the seniors and the newly-blooded youth return to their old stamping ground.

[wolftone57]

Thanks ugg for your usual expert presentation.
I look forward to hearing more about this match, seems it will be played on slightly even terms than the last few as our wounded begin to return to the seniors and the newly-blooded youth return to their old stamping ground.

I reckon we will give a much better showing than last time. We only had 11 listed players last time and they had a full list bar two. The NSW Rep teams were playing at that stage too so we didn't have access to players like Lloyd Perris. I think we will do much better but we might not win. But in the next few weeks we might be getting back quite a few players and may the Gods help the side we play if Jetts & Rooster are playing in the same side. LRT, Jetts and Goodsie are all on the bikes at the moment. Sammy is already running outside so he has progressed faster than expected and faster than the others.

[Red]

Score updates via a Lions fan on Twitter: https://twitter.com/whatboutbob

[southsideswan]

Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4
Brisbane Lions 4.3-27 9.11-65 17.13-115 17.17-119
Sydney Swans 4.5-29 8.6-54 10.7-67 13.8-86


Brisbane Lions
Goal Kickers: P. Karnezis 4, S. Martin 4, A. Cornelius 3, T. Banfield 2, A. McGrath 2, J. Polkinghorne , L. Radford
Best Players: P. Karnezis, S. Martin, A. McGrath, B. Longer, R. Lester, R. Newell

Sydney Swans
Goal Kickers: M. Morton 6, D. Towers 3, J. Weir 2, T. Membrey , M. Dick
Best Players: J. Lloyd, T. Armstrong, M. Morton, D. Towers, X. Richards, J. Dawes

- - - Updated - - -

Who picks "best players". Is it independent from the Swans?

[SimonH]

My understanding is that best players lists (at least in this format) are always the club's choice.

Great that Mitch Morton is in good form now, because god knows if he's going to get a call-up it will have to be in the next 3 weeks before Goodes, Reid and Jetta all make selection tighter than it is now. And it would be a cold-hearted Swans fan not to want to see him get another call-up.

[Auntie.Gerald]

it appears that we wont have the Goodes "finals factor" and there always appears to be a player that stands up above all in a finals game

Kurt Tippett is my x factor coming into the finals but Mitch Morton without doubt has a massive x factor capability and I would be happy for him to come back in to the snrs but at whos expense ?

McGlynn and Shaw are back - Rampe stays for me

[ScottH]

Anyone know how Rohan went?

[southsideswan]

I hope it is the Club that selects the players game points. I have seen Jake Lloyd overlooked by Nick Davis when he talked about up and coming players. On Swan TV Jared Crouch mentioned 6 or 7 players without mentioning Lloyd. Jack, Richards and Briggs have gone past him, moving from rookie list to senior list. OK Rampe has as well but I think he is the find of the year!!! Having myself moved from a country town to Sydney at same age I know how tough it can be. Just worry we might lose him. He is obviously doing something right if 20 points ahead in game award points.

To go B2B you either have to be so much better than other clubs (Swans ain't) or you need all the stars to fall into formation, and it requires a larger portion of luck. Our luck might be that the depth at the "bottom level players" is extremely strong. If we get 1/2 of our players back from injury those that will be left out will be the show of our strength.

[Triple B]

Anyone know how Rohan went?

The Brisbane guy who was tweeting scores said 'Rohan was quiet' and also 'Rohan was limping late in the game'...

I would take the 'limping' comment with a grain of salt because his natural gait (certainly pre-injury) was a strange sort of walk which made him look like he was limping. I know both ugg and I thought he looked injured in a first year ressie game at ANZ until we saw him in following weeks and worked out it's just the way he walks. Understandably the Brisbane guy is probably unaware of that.

Furthermore, if he was still playing late in the game and limping around the ground, it's seems little doubt he would have been taken off the field quick smart if it was a problem with his leg...

[ugg]

Next up is UWS again and we need to win to keep our chances of winning the minor premiership alive. However it might not be so bad if we end up finishing 2nd as that would afford us a home final in the first week of the finals (minor premiers get the first week off in the 5 team finals series) and possibly that could be the curtain raiser to the Hawks game at ANZ, or in the worst case a Saturday game at Blacktown.

[Triple B]

ugg, I was under the impression that all finals are played in Canberra. Has there been a change for this year and home finals are on the table, or am I mistaken?

[southsideswan]

I just realised that there is only 2 weeks left for ressies normal season. This will restrict some of the injured players getting a run before the finals except they have Cats and hawks as warm up matches!!!

[ugg]

ugg, I was under the impression that all finals are played in Canberra. Has there been a change for this year and home finals are on the table, or am I mistaken?

We had a home final last year where we smashed Ainslie (albeit at our second 'home' Blacktown).

Reserves Qualifying Final 2012 - RWOwiki (http://www.redandwhiteonline.com/wiki/index.php/Reserves_Qualifying_Final_2012)

I think the change occurred when the AFL Canberra was subsumed by the new NEAFL as part of the incentives for the new non-reserves Sydney based teams came into the comp. The Eastern conf. GF is the only game that is guaranteed for Canberra, although now that I think about it I'm sure I read somewhere earlier in the year that this is no longer going to be true either.

[ugg]

I just realised that there is only 2 weeks left for ressies normal season. This will restrict some of the injured players getting a run before the finals except they have Cats and hawks as warm up matches!!!

This is going to be a huge problem for Goodes, Jetta and Reid as they will not have played enough games in the regular season to qualify for the reserves post season. Even Gary Rohan may be touch and go as I'm not sure of the numerical requirements. Everitt missed out on last year's finals series for this reason.

[Triple B]

This is going to be a huge problem for Goodes, Jetta and Reid as they will not have played enough games in the regular season to qualify for the reserves post season. Even Gary Rohan may be touch and go as I'm not sure of the numerical requirements. Everitt missed out on last year's finals series for this reason.

Pretty poor rule. By all means put a restriction on if the seniors have a week off, but if the seniors are playing the same weekend then all players should be available for selection.

The Swans have shown previously they wouldn't abuse the rule because they won't compromise whats best for the seniors under any circumstances. So much so they have gone into reserves GF's with 2 or 3 eligible players sitting in the stands in case they are needed for seniors finals.

[ugg]

You may be right, I'm trying to find the NEAFL document that explains this in detail.

[ugg]

Okay I found this document, but it's from 2012.

http://neafl.com.au/fileadmin/user_upload/Documents/Rules_regs_NEAFL2012.pdf

16.3.3 FINALS ELIGIBILITY
(a) Subject to Rule 15.5.5 (c) and (d) above, a Sydney Swans listed player must have played a minimum of three (3) Competition home and away Matches to qualify to play in the Competition finals series.
(b) In the event a Sydney Swans listed player has played five (5) matches or more in the AFL, he must have played at least nine (9) Competition home and away Matches to qualify to play in the Competition finals series.

and Rule 15.5.5 is
(c) Notwithstanding anything within these Rules, Under 18 AFL Club Academy players need not to have first played a Competition home and away Match with a Club to qualify to play for that club in a Competition final Match, unless otherwise approved by the AFL.
(d) Notwithstanding anything with these Rules, should an AFL Club listed player not be selected to play for his AFL Club in an AFL finals series match, that player will be eligible to play in the Competition finals series Match with the AFL Club Reserves team that same weekend, irrespective of whether or not he has played in a Competition Match that season,

so it's not as strict as I first thought but if the Swans win the Qualifying Final and have the week off, those 3 possible returnees won't be eligible to play if the Swans Reserves are playing that weekend (which would be the NEAFL prelim I think)

[undy]

Report on the game now on the club site - here (http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2013-08-05/thirdterm-lapse-costs-reserves)

[liz]

The rule in most 'reserves' comps (or comps in which some teams are reserves teams) is that anyone can play for as long as the senior team is still in its competition. Once the senior team is out, only true reserves players can continue to play in the reserves team.

The objective is clear - to stop teams artifically inflating the ability of their reserves level team by stacking it with players used to playing at a higher level.

[undy]

The rule in most 'reserves' comps (or comps in which some teams are reserves teams) is that anyone can play for as long as the senior team is still in its competition. Once the senior team is out, only true reserves players can continue to play in the reserves team.

And that is what 15.5.5(d) effectively says, so no problem.

[ugg]

But if the seniors are knocked out, there's really no point playing senior players (returning from injury or otherwise) in the reserves any more. Anyway, the other point to consider is we are limited to 12 listed players in the whole squad which meant last year players such as McNeil and Lynch who had played all or most of the games were unluckily left out of finals game(s).

[Ludwig]

This is a really important matter, since several key players are scheduled to return around the end of the H&A season and will need a week or 2 to get some game time into them.
Despite playing a bit in the reserves, I thought Shaw looked very rusty in the seniors. He didn't take the ball cleanly on several occasions and had a couple of miskicks. It's very questionable how well Goodes, Jetta and Reid will play without at least a game or 2 in the reserves. They all have missed so many games.

[liz]

But if the seniors are knocked out, there's really no point playing senior players (returning from injury or otherwise) in the reserves any more. Anyway, the other point to consider is we are limited to 12 listed players in the whole squad which meant last year players such as McNeil and Lynch who had played all or most of the games were unluckily left out of finals game(s).

Not for a club like the Swans, where the reserves winning the NEAFL premiership is pretty low on the priority list. But in a more general sense, some clubs at the amateur / semi-professional level might be tempted to build up their club's silverware by stacking their reserves team with players who generally play a level up - say one of the Canberra sides trying to win the second tier cup by using players who generally play at NEAFL level. You'd like to think most clubs would see such a thing as fairly hollow, but the rule prevents clubs from doing it anyway.

[magic.merkin]

Watching the highlights video it was nice to see Lockyer delivering some nice passes. He is one of our forgotten draftees, and hasn't set the world alight.

Also Membrey! He just looks a gem. Can't wait to see him break in.

http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/video/2013-08-06/swanstv-reserves-highlights-v-brisbane-r20