Shopping.

[aardvark]

With Mattner, Morton,Bolton and probably Goodes and LRT all retiring its time to look for the next lot of bargains. Colless said earlier this year we still have room in the cap for one more experienced player. With the retirements we are cashed up and ready to splurge.
So the question is,"What do we need and where do we get them?"

[DamY]

BUDDYYYYYYYYY haha

[jetts32]

Goodes and LRT have signed on to the end of next year I'm pretty sure.
I don't know what else we need really, it's pretty hard to choose! We have a great back line, a promising forward line, an outstanding midfield - what do we need?

[aardvark]

A really classy KP defender would be top of my list.

[BillyRayCypress]

A really classy KP defender would be top of my list.

We have him already, Jesse, who can play back or front.

Trade Bighead McVeigh to GWS for a player(s) and or draft picks. Similar to the Schwass/Grant swap we did.

[Cressakel2]

Goodes won't retire for 2-3 years or more. W

e need a defender and another small forward type would be great.

[Triple B]

...and another small forward type would be great.

Milne is apparently available...

[undy]

Goodes and LRT are going nowhere next year.
Listen to Goodes in this interview (https://soundcloud.com/sen1116/sydney-swans-star-adam-goodes) indicate that he is still enjoying footy so much he doesn't want to contemplate life after it.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

SPEEEEEEEED!!!!!

[Bloodthirsty]

Yeah I think it's a good idea to pick up 2-3 ready-to-go players and add them to our home-grown players, so that they're all in their prime for the next few years. Can you imagine the Melbourne media if we pick up a couple of huge KPP defenders and some blistering outside pace?

Shaw might retire too.

[mcs]

We have him already, Jesse, who can play back or front.

Trade Bighead McVeigh to GWS for a player(s) and or draft picks. Similar to the Schwass/Grant swap we did.

Maybe you weren't being ironic in the other thread!

To me, our needs are:

Key Position defender - LRT/Teddy/Grundy aren't getting younger. Xavier is young but with bucketloads of potential. If it was me, I'd be looking at taking someone in the draft for that position and working him through with X, so that in 2 or 3 years time, we have 2 ready made replacements ready to go.

Midfield - there is stacks of talent in there, but as always you need to look to replenish. My focus would be on finding another guy with good skills and lots of speed, as we have badly been shown up when Jetta has been out and Rohan is still a work in progress (and to me is not necessarily going to be a midfielder going forward - he has a lot of potential up forward as well I feel).

Forward - need a small, crumbing type forward. If we are going to have a bucketload of big guys up front, we need little guys to feed off the crumbs. Mcglynn is not that sort of forward - we need to find someone to bring through that complements the forward line.

In terms of an experienced player to bring in - I'd be looking at the midfield issue, if there was someone available with legspeed and good skills to complement the group. Otherwise, I'd look for a small forward before I'd take another defender.

[royboy42]

We have him already, Jesse, who can play back or front.

Trade Bighead McVeigh to GWS for a player(s) and or draft picks. Similar to the Schwass/Grant swap we did.

I'm taking this as a joke?

[BillyRayCypress]

I'm taking this as a joke?

If you want good players, you need to give up good players. Bighead McVeigh is the one I'd least be upset to see go.

GWS will need senior players for next year and you won't have a better time.

Naturally, Mc Bighead won't be traded but rather him than Mitchell or Parker.

- - - Updated - - -


Milne is apparently available...

He's announced he's being retrialed, I mean retired.

[rojo]

Whoever we go shopping for I think they have got to have speed, skills and a footy brain but that is not enough. They also have to have determination to excel and to take it up to the opposition. It is curious but one headline after Sat. was that the Cats 'bullied' the Swans (whatever that means) and I recall that that same phrase was used after another match recently (can't remember who it was against), that the Swans were 'bullied' by the opposition. It seems that without Goodes and LRT and maybe Shaw out there protecting, some of our players are getting pushed around far too easily. I think that Mummy and Benny have not learned, as have the Geelong players, how to be imposing and hard nosed, within the rules. For such a young player AJ was superb in letting his opponent know that he was not going to be physically pushed around!

[ScottH]

Shops don't open till October 7.

[Chilcott]

We need speed in the midfield.

Daisy Thomas has got the speed and hasn't signed with the Pies yet. Not sure about his injuries though.

[aardvark]

Here's the Free Agents List.....
Franklin, Thomas, Cooney head latest free agent list - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-08-05/big-names-still-up-for-grabs)

Anyone here take your fancy?

How about Dale Morris from the dogs for the KPD and Eddie Betts as the crumbing forward?

- - - Updated - - -


Shops don't open till October 7.

Ah but us good shoppers know you plan ahead Scott or you end up with stuff you never wanted!:smile:

[Swansongster]

We need speed in the midfield.

Daisy Thomas has got the speed and hasn't signed with the Pies yet. Not sure about his injuries though.

Would love it just for the howls from Eddie. If sound, could thrive in Bloods culture.

[BillyRayCypress]

I would have thought anyone from Essendon may be a possibility

[dimelb]

I would have thought anyone from Essendon may be a possibility

Leroy Jetta would really throw the cat among the pigeons!

[BillyRayCypress]

Leroy Jetta would really throw the cat among the pigeons!

Can you imagine Brian Taylor with that one. The Jetta would have landed before he could work out which one was which.

[Captain]

What is with the 'we need a key position defender'?? AJ, Rampe, Richards and Grundy are plenty for the next couple of years. Throw Reid in there as well.

What we need are fast midfielders. Parker, Bird, Kennedy, Hanners, ROK are all big bodied and not quick. Aside from Rohan and Jetta we have @@@@ all speed.

[dimelb]

What is with the 'we need a key position defender'?? AJ, Rampe, Richards and Grundy are plenty for the next couple of years. Throw Reid in there as well.

What we need are fast midfielders. Parker, Bird, Kennedy, Hanners, ROK are all big bodied and not quick. Aside from Rohan and Jetta we have @@@@ all speed.

I agree about the KP defenders, and as someone else said, we can add Xav in a season or two, already taller than Ted and faster.
But we have good potential mids coming through the system, with pace in the likes of Harry Cunningham and Brandon Jack, although it wouldn't hurt to look for one or two more.
What we have lacked lately is skills by foot and hand. I can't believe that the team that cut up Collingwood earlier in the season has turned into this unskilled tear-my-hair-out turnover-prone lot we have seen all too frequently lately. What do they do in training?

[ernie koala]

We need a bonafide small forward with some x factor.....Mr Betts fits the bill.

[Bloodthirsty]

What is with the 'we need a key position defender'?? AJ, Rampe, Richards and Grundy are plenty for the next couple of years. Throw Reid in there as well.

What we need are fast midfielders. Parker, Bird, Kennedy, Hanners, ROK are all big bodied and not quick. Aside from Rohan and Jetta we have @@@@ all speed.

I agree we need more midfield pace. But in addition to that, we lack big-bodied and tall KPP defenders. That's why Grundy gets a gig every week no matter what he does.

[The Big Cat]

We need a bonafide small forward with some x factor.....Mr Betts fits the bill. Longmire and Roos agree. If you haven't got the tank to run through the midfield you ain't going to get a job as a small forward. Lamb came to us as a small forward but they didn't look at playing him in the seniors until he developed his engine.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Travis Varcoe........ Adam Goodes cousin off the HBFlank would be awesome for us !!!

[Jeffers1984]

Eddie Betts at Tippetts feet would be great...Can apply very good forward pressure too.

[stellation]

Didn't Eddie Betts want $600k p.a. from Carlton?

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I'm not sure we have a desperate need for a key defender, yes Ted and LRT are in their 30th year, but the much and unfairly maligned Grundy is only 27, and I suspect a year on the weights may accelerate AJ's development from a brilliant 3rd tall into a true key defender.
And beyond that I have been hugely impressed by Richards2 in the reserves. Lockyer could be a player, but I am getting an LJ sort of feeling about him.

[Triple B]

Didn't Eddie Betts want $600k p.a. from Carlton?

His management has reportedly put that price on his head.

Of course, it is outrageous, but it would be highly amusing if we decided to pay up and get him anyway just to watch the bleeding from Swann, Eddie and co about the COLA allowing us to poach all their players...

[ugg]

I hear Betts has already signed with another bird based team.

[Triple B]

I hear Betts has already signed with another bird based team.

Faaaark...as Graham Kennedy would say....

[Captain]

I agree we need more midfield pace. But in addition to that, we lack big-bodied and tall KPP defenders. That's why Grundy gets a gig every week no matter what he does.

Grundy gets a gig because he is a bloody good footballer and a more then solid key defender.

[aardvark]

, but I am getting an LJ sort of feeling about him.

LJ kicked 6 last weekend. Better get Lockyer up to speed ASAP:wink:

[Triple B]

Lockyer could be a player, but I am getting an LJ sort of feeling about him.

LJ's demise and eventual trading was most definitely a 'between the ears' problem. Not sure that's the case with Lockyer. Up until a month ago I'd have thought Lockyer would be very lucky to see another contract, but he's been pretty good the past few weeks and certainly better than he has shown previously although no doubt injury would have been a big part in his slow progress.

I think the looming reserves finals series will be vital for Lockyer's future in R&W, presuming he has not been further contracted earlier.

[Chookbilly]

Tayte Pears anyone? I think Essendon will be ripe for the picking.

[jono2707]

Grundy gets a gig because he is a bloody good footballer and a more then solid key defender.

x2 - he's one of the better key defenders going round and forms possibly the best duo with Ted.

I wouldn't be surprised if we draft another tall defender though - they should have a few years to develop before being really needed.

[aardvark]

Tayte Pears anyone? I think Essendon will be ripe for the picking.

I'd rather Courtenay Dempsey.........

[Triple B]

Tayte Pears anyone? I think Essendon will be ripe for the picking.


I'd rather Courtenay Dempsey.........

Buyer beware on any Essendon player.

They are still FAR from being in the clear. If ASADA/WADA establish that they received any banned substances, whether knowingly or not, they are looking at 2 year bans, fullstop...

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Tayte Pears anyone? I think Essendon will be ripe for the picking.
The AFLPA were talking poor duty of care being a breach of contract issue which could release a lot of disgruntled 'Don's (or at least he less stupid) but I'm with Triple B, caveat emptor, we got hosed over Tippett, I'd hate to have it happen again and for far longer.

[stellation]

Buyer beware on any Essendon player.

They are still FAR from being in the clear. If ASADA/WADA establish that they received any banned substances, whether knowingly or not, they are looking at 2 year bans, fullstop...
Agreed, but I'd still happily take a punt on any of their elite under 23 talents even if they would potentially not play for 2 years.

[DA_Swan]

Agreed, but I'd still happily take a punt on any of their elite under 23 talents even if they would potentially not play for 2 years.

Lets not muck around then - might as well have a crack at Carlisle then - best young defender / forward running around

[Triple B]

Lets not muck around then - might as well have a crack at Carlisle then - best young defender / forward running around

Absolutely. I think Hurley is wayyyy over-hyped, but he'd also slip nicely into our backline. Outside of those two who fit the criteria of young enough to ride out a 2-year ban if worst come to worst, I doubt I'd be interested in anybody else on their list at all. Perhaps Joe.

[DA_Swan]

Joe D had his chance - bad luck for him and us - classic sliding doors - will be a good player though

[MightyBloods]

Whoever we go shopping for I think they have got to have speed, skills and a footy brain but that is not enough. They also have to have determination to excel and to take it up to the opposition. It is curious but one headline after Sat. was that the Cats 'bullied' the Swans (whatever that means) and I recall that that same phrase was used after another match recently (can't remember who it was against), that the Swans were 'bullied' by the opposition. It seems that without Goodes and LRT and maybe Shaw out there protecting, some of our players are getting pushed around far too easily. I think that Mummy and Benny have not learned, as have the Geelong players, how to be imposing and hard nosed, within the rules. For such a young player AJ was superb in letting his opponent know that he was not going to be physically pushed around!

Ask Nathan Vardy if Mumford is physically imposing!

- - - Updated - - -


We need a bonafide small forward with some x factor.....Mr Betts fits the bill.

Luke Breust would look good in the red & white...oh wait, he did look good!

[Ludwig]

Agree with Triple B. I wouldn't look at any of the 2012 Essendon lot without some sort of AFL drug suspension indemnification in place, which is very unlikely.

I think our main objective should be to sign up Mummy and Jesse. We are a solid and balanced team with a good age mix all over the ground. We really don't need any established players. If anything we could look to trade out someone to improve our draft position. Our speed is okay, if we can keep them on the ground. We were without some of our quickest players this year (Jetta, Rohan, Goodes, Reid, Shaw). All should be okay to go in 2014.

We will add Lloyd Perris to an already deep midfield. There will be several worthy players (Lloyd, Biggs, BJ, Cunningham), that will struggle to get games next year barring injuries, with only Jude exiting from the midfield/forward slot. We will also probably land another good midfield prospect with our first round pick, as the midfield draft is stronger than KPPs this year.

Our tall defenders will be the first that will need replacing due to retirements. But we look okay for next couple of years at least, assuming both LRT and AJ return from injury. If Jesse White can hold his forward spot, then Reid can be moved to the back, which gives us Ted, Reg, LRT, Sammy, AJ and Dre to fight over 3 spots, with Xav looking a likely prospect at this point. Who knows what will be with Walsh. But agree that the tall defender spot is the one we will need to cover first due to age, uncertainties and development time. We can probably get a good prospect this year with our second round pick. Also, at the end of next year GWS will have to start reducing their list size by 2 players, and suspect that there will be a least one good prospect we could nab from them (Jaksch, Corr, Frost, Bruce). Ben Reid will be a free agent next year if he doesn't re-sign, which is something we can look out for if things go bad for us in KPP category next season.

[Bloodthirsty]

How about Fletcher? After a two year ban he'd be available to play for us. He could share accomodation with the Swans players' grandfathers.

[MightyBloods]

How about Fletcher? After a two year ban he'd be available to play for us. He could share accomodation with the Swans players' grandfathers.

and we'll be able to get him under the 'absolutely free agent' rule for anyone who's played over 20 years!

[Ludwig]

How about Fletcher? After a two year ban he'd be available to play for us. He could share accomodation with the Swans players' grandfathers.

I hear he is going to be charged by ASADA for taking drugs for Alzheimer's!! :tongue:

[707]

OK guys, here's the probable metrics for us in this years Trade/Draft period, a few assumptions are made, the lost picks of Adelaide Cows and Essendon Injectors, the extra activated mid first round pick of GWS and GCS, no more retirements, with our injury woes we go out in straight sets :-(

AFL lists this year were allowed to be 40, we ran with just 38 maybe to save $ to squeeze in Tippett?

We have three retirements so far, Bolton, Mattner, Morton, list now 35.

ND we have picks 14, 30, 48, mid 60s, somewhere in the mid/late 70s

One of those late ones will be used for Lloyd Perris who due to his high ranking won't be a rookie, list now 36, another late one to upgrade Rampe, list now 37.

We'd use picks 14, 30 & 48 you would think, list now 40.

Fairly clear cut eh? Unless Mumford gets traded to GWS, more retirements etc. But at least that are the numbers as they stand.

Soryy to spoil your fun on this thread but I can't see room to trade a player in and you really need a hole in your senior side to attract a player and I can't see that hole once the injured return in 2014.

[wolftone57]

Goodes and LRT have signed on to the end of next year I'm pretty sure.
I don't know what else we need really, it's pretty hard to choose! We have a great back line, a promising forward line, an outstanding midfield - what do we need?

I think you are missing the point of recruiting. Teddy is 30 and has between two and three years left. Reg is 27 and because of his body type can see him retiring at about 30. Teddy has an entirely different body shape more, ectomorph, than Reg who is probably more mesomorph. Ectomorph's like Dustin Fletcher and Michael Tuck found it easier to play longer.

The upshot is we need to start looking or developing KPP in defence. Xav is one we are developing now and Sammy could be an LRT type who can pinch hit either back or forward. But we also need to look at a 'big' key backman. Tommy might be able to fill this role but we may as well get a couple of rookies to develop anyway. We need to develop two rookie rucks. We have one in Sam Naismith but it would be good to recruit young Dawes from Newcastle. He has wonderful build and is obviously talented. Our mids stocks are good but if there is a terror in the pack (another Jetts perhaps) then we should draft him. Speed goes a long way in today's game.

- - - Updated - - -


Goodes won't retire for 2-3 years or more. W

e need a defender and another small forward type would be great.

how do you know this are you psychic? Goodsie's injuries are taking a toll and if he lasts one more season I will be surprised.

[aardvark]

OK guys, here's the probable metrics for us in this years Trade/Draft period, a few assumptions are made, the lost picks of Adelaide Cows and Essendon Injectors, the extra activated mid first round pick of GWS and GCS, no more retirements, with our injury woes we go out in straight sets :-(

AFL lists this year were allowed to be 40, we ran with just 38 maybe to save $ to squeeze in Tippett?

We have three retirements so far, Bolton, Mattner, Morton, list now 35.

ND we have picks 14, 30, 48, mid 60s, somewhere in the mid/late 70s

One of those late ones will be used for Lloyd Perris who due to his high ranking won't be a rookie, list now 36, another late one to upgrade Rampe, list now 37.

We'd use picks 14, 30 & 48 you would think, list now 40.

Fairly clear cut eh? Unless Mumford gets traded to GWS, more retirements etc. But at least that are the numbers as they stand.

Soryy to spoil your fun on this thread but I can't see room to trade a player in and you really need a hole in your senior side to attract a player and I can't see that hole once the injured return in 2014.

This is of course assuming we don't delist anyone.

[wolftone57]

Here's the Free Agents List.....
Franklin, Thomas, Cooney head latest free agent list - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-08-05/big-names-still-up-for-grabs)

Anyone here take your fancy?

How about Dale Morris from the dogs for the KPD and Eddie Betts as the crumbing forward?

- - - Updated - - -



Ah but us good shoppers know you plan ahead Scott or you end up with stuff you never wanted!:smile:

As far as I know Cooney made a statement that he wants to be a one club player about a week ago. By the way at this time I don't think we need any other teams leavings. We need to go to the draft and get ourselves the players we need. If there are a few players we have to swap for better draft picks then we need to do that. There are some in the Twos on the senior list who are probably shaky at the moment too. Contract in brackets:Tony Armstrong (2014), Alex Brown (2013), Matthew Dick (2014) and Jordan Lockyer (2013) are all a bit shaky at this time. Alex Brown has been pretty good in the Twos but hasn't really looked like taking that extra step. He has been passed by rookies like Xav Richards, Dane Rampe, Jake Lloyd and Shane Biggs. Lockyer has failed to make much impact in his second year, though his last couple of games have been good it may all be too late. Dick is contracted for one more year but so far has not impressed to the stage I could say he will push for selection next year. Tony has been a bit disappointing from the point of view there were positions for the taking and he didn't take that extra step.

[DA_Swan]

Soryy to spoil your fun on this thread but I can't see room to trade a player in and you really need a hole in your senior side to attract a player and I can't see that hole once the injured return in 2014.[/QUOTE]

I gather you are assuming that White will re sign and Lamb will re sign besides potential loss of Mumford - i would hope we would use picks for a good player as we are young enough after you take out the retirements for this year and next and we lose a lot of experience this year and next - defender a must especially with AJ's injury

[wolftone57]

Leroy Jetta would really throw the cat among the pigeons!

I get the feeling that young Leroy is not a happy chapy at Essendon. So yes he might just be looking for a new club next year and of course there could be others after the way the players have been treated. That club had a total disregard for the welfare of their players. Wouldn't mind getting hold of Carlisle too.

[Untamed Snark]

Could someone clarify for me what happens if someone on a contract retires?
Say a player has a year left on his contract but due to injury wants to retire this season, are the Swans obliged to keep paying him for the remainder of the contract? And what about if someone has time left on their contact but are traded? Or delisted? (Can you delist someone who still has time on their contract?)

[wolftone57]

What is with the 'we need a key position defender'?? AJ, Rampe, Richards and Grundy are plenty for the next couple of years. Throw Reid in there as well.

What we need are fast midfielders. Parker, Bird, Kennedy, Hanners, ROK are all big bodied and not quick. Aside from Rohan and Jetta we have @@@@ all speed.

For a start Rampe & AJ are not KPP they are mid size defenders. We need some good KPP to take over from Reg (27) and Teddy (30). We have some speed in the reserves in the form of BJ and Lloydy also Biggs is not slow. We drafted Dick because of his speed as a defender and funnily enough Marsh, for a guy Joey's size, is quite quick, Harry is blistering ad getting better all the time. But of that group probably Dick & Harry (don't know what happened to Tom, LOL) have the most speed but not convinced by Dick at this stage. We could do with more speed and we need to get it in the draft. but a Leroy Jetta or Dale Thomas or both would not go astray. But in saying that I think Thomas will be at Giants next year.

- - - Updated - - -


Could someone clarify for me what happens if someone on a contract retires?
Say a player has a year left on his contract but due to injury wants to retire this season, are the Swans obliged to keep paying him for the remainder of the contract? And what about if someone has time left on their contact but are traded? Or delisted? (Can you delist someone who still has time on their contract?)

A team can delist a player who still has time on their contract but they have to pay out the contract and it is still considered part of your salary cap. There have been a examples of players being delisted only to be picked up by another club and the previous club still paying them. Probably not s good idea. Retirements are different and if a player retires before his contract matures he can forego the payment of their contractual obligations and in some circumstances the club may ask for compensation. We had that situation with Daniel Bradshaw when he retired due to injury. The extra year on his contract was voided due to the special circumstances I believe and not considered part of the salary cap.

- - - Updated - - -


Didn't Eddie Betts want $600k p.a. from Carlton?

Yes he did and guess what they said, I think it had the initials FO. Betts is 26 and will be 27 in November. Do we need a player in who is approaching his twilight? We could get Didak as he is going to be delisted and will be cheap but do we really want to. BJ is really good at roving the packs and getting the ball off hands, I would stick with him and develop him and Lambie into fearsome small to medium forwards. Add rooster to that equation and we have a pretty dangerous group. I think the problem at the moment is the Tippett factor, we are overusing him and playing him one out on several opponents.

[Ludwig]

For a start Rampe & AJ are not KPP they are mid size defenders.

- - - Updated - - -



AJ is 193 cm and will be heavier than Ted in a year or 2, so I would count him as a KPP.

- - - Updated - - -

If we wanted to create another spot on our list, could we delist Tommy Walsh and resign him as an Irish International, which I believe may be separate from other list size calculations?

- - - Updated - - -


OK guys, here's the probable metrics for us in this years Trade/Draft period, a few assumptions are made, the lost picks of Adelaide Cows and Essendon Injectors, the extra activated mid first round pick of GWS and GCS, no more retirements, with our injury woes we go out in straight sets :-(

AFL lists this year were allowed to be 40, we ran with just 38 maybe to save $ to squeeze in Tippett?

We have three retirements so far, Bolton, Mattner, Morton, list now 35.

ND we have picks 14, 30, 48, mid 60s, somewhere in the mid/late 70s

One of those late ones will be used for Lloyd Perris who due to his high ranking won't be a rookie, list now 36, another late one to upgrade Rampe, list now 37.

We'd use picks 14, 30 & 48 you would think, list now 40.

Fairly clear cut eh? Unless Mumford gets traded to GWS, more retirements etc. But at least that are the numbers as they stand.

Soryy to spoil your fun on this thread but I can't see room to trade a player in and you really need a hole in your senior side to attract a player and I can't see that hole once the injured return in 2014.

The list size, I believe, is a total of Senior and Rookie of 44, with the senior list between 38 and 40 and the the rookie list 4-6. I think we started the year with a full contingent of 6 Rookie A List players, but not certain.

So we actually have 3 open spots at this point. Elevating Rampe doesn't change the total. Perris reduces our active picks to 2. So we now have picks (around) 14 and 30 as effective live picks. I'm not sure if we can expect to get anyone better at pick 48 than what we already have on our list. Would you trade anyone on our list for a pick 48? I am not sure about Lockyer, Armstrong or Brown, but would prefer to give each another year rather than exercise a pick 48.

[crackedactor]

As far as I know Cooney made a statement that he wants to be a one club player about a week ago. By the way at this time I don't think we need any other teams leavings. We need to go to the draft and get ourselves the players we need. If there are a few players we have to swap for better draft picks then we need to do that. There are some in the Twos on the senior list who are probably shaky at the moment too. Contract in brackets:Tony Armstrong (2014), Alex Brown (2013), Matthew Dick (2014) and Jordan Lockyer (2013) are all a bit shaky at this time. Alex Brown has been pretty good in the Twos but hasn't really looked like taking that extra step. He has been passed by rookies like Xav Richards, Dane Rampe, Jake Lloyd and Shane Biggs. Lockyer has failed to make much impact in his second year, though his last couple of games have been good it may all be too late. Dick is contracted for one more year but so far has not impressed to the stage I could say he will push for selection next year. Tony has been a bit disappointing from the point of view there were positions for the taking and he didn't take that extra step.I think you are being a bit harsh on Alex Brown. He does show potential , but I know his form of late is not great. But when I look at him I also think he is just a schoolboy trying to play with men. He desperately needs a couple of solid years in the gym, especially playing in the backline, where there is more body to body contact. Alas Teddy Richards example!

[The Big Cat]

I can't believe people are mentioning blokes like Eddie Betts or Alan Didak or FFS Stephen Milne. All are well past their best and wouldn't be in our best 25 anyway. And I haven't even mentioned the baggage the latter two carry. The only Essendon player I would contemplate would be Joe Daniher. Even if pinged by ASADA he'll still be a baby after that time. (I bet Anthony lays awake at night and wishes he could give his fatherly advice about the F/S all over again.)

[Ludwig]

I can't believe people are mentioning blokes like Eddie Betts or Alan Didak or FFS Stephen Milne. All are well past their best and wouldn't be in our best 25 anyway. And I haven't even mentioned the baggage the latter two carry. The only Essendon player I would contemplate would be Joe Daniher. Even if pinged by ASADA he'll still be a baby after that time. (I bet Anthony lays awake at night and wishes he could give his fatherly advice about the F/S all over again.)

Daniher's not a problem because he wasn't at the club during the drugging program (2012). But no way they would let him go. Besides, I'm not too sure about him. I would be worried by his atrocious goal kicking of late. Something doesn't look right about him. He looks a bit like an LRT gone overboard (I was going to say on steroids, but that's for another thread). Maybe he'll grow out of it (as LRT did).

[ernie koala]

I can't believe people are mentioning blokes like Eddie Betts or Alan Didak or FFS Stephen Milne. All are well past their best and wouldn't be in our best 25 anyway. And I haven't even mentioned the baggage the latter two carry. The only Essendon player I would contemplate would be Joe Daniher. Even if pinged by ASADA he'll still be a baby after that time. (I bet Anthony lays awake at night and wishes he could give his fatherly advice about the F/S all over again.)

I agree about Didak and Milne being past their best....

But if Betts was on our list today, you wouldn't have him in the team....really??

Betts would easily make our 21.... He's about 26 years old and in his prime...He can turn a match.

We are crying out for a classy small forward, IMO...

I'd love to see him at the Swans....But given his asking price, it won't happen.... Unless he halves it.

[Ludwig]

I agree about Didak and Milne being past their best....

But if Betts was on our list today, you wouldn't have him in the team....really??

Betts would easily make our 21.... He's about 26 years old and in his prime...He can turn a match.

We are crying out for a classy small forward, IMO...

I'd love to see him at the Swans....But given his asking price, it won't happen.... Unless he halves it.

I think you'll find that Benny McGlynn stacks up rather favourably against Eddie Betts. They play similar roles. Would you trade McGlynn for Betts in a straight swap?

[ernie koala]

I think you'll find that Benny McGlynn stacks up rather favourably against Eddie Betts. They play similar roles. Would you trade McGlynn for Betts in a straight swap?

They play as small forwards, that's where the comparison ends though.

I'm not comparing him to McGlynn. McGlynn is a tough hard defensive type forward, and good at it. But he lacks class and his finishing in front of the sticks is so so at best.

As I said before, IMO, what would really compliment our forward line is a classy small forward, who can conjure goals from nothing....like Betts.

[Alan]

Unless Eddie tackles/grapples/fights when the ball is on the way out of our F50, he won't get a game though. I have not seen him do much of that at the Blues.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

They play as small forwards, that's where the comparison ends though.

I'm not comparing him to McGlynn. McGlynn is a tough hard defensive type forward, and good at it. But he lacks class and his finishing in front of the sticks is so so at best.

As I said before, IMO, what would really compliment our forward line is a classy small forward, who can conjure goals from nothing....like Betts.

Additionally Benny can play as a run with player, I suspect he was the last Swan to beat Joel "Quackers" Selwood

- - - Updated - - -

Wasn't there a rumour that Yarran and Garlet were on the outer with the blues, both have pace and skills . . .

[ernie koala]

Unless Eddie tackles/grapples/fights when the ball is on the way out of our F50, he won't get a game though. I have not seen him do much of that at the Blues.

Never saw Morton do that at the Tigers either....but he does it in spades at the Swans.

[Ludwig]

They play as small forwards, that's where the comparison ends though.

I'm not comparing him to McGlynn. McGlynn is a tough hard defensive type forward, and good at it. But he lacks class and his finishing in front of the sticks is so so at best.

As I said before, IMO, what would really compliment our forward line is a classy small forward, who can conjure goals from nothing....like Betts.

I actually find Betts and McGlynn to be very similar players. Both are quick, quite good with defensive pressure, run through the midfield a bit and can kick a good goal, with Betts being a bit more spectacular. Benny has a plus by being a good tagger if needed. Statistically over the years, they are quite close in most categories. McGlynn's goalkicking has been better than Eddie's this year.

I can't see both playing in the same Swans side. That's why I asked what your preference was. I wouldn't mind having Betts at the Swans, but if I had to choose between the two, I would give the Nod to Benny.

[Triple B]

I actually find Betts and McGlynn to be very similar players. ..

I agree with Ernie, not totally chalk and cheese, but hardly similar IMO...

[wolftone57]

LJ kicked 6 last weekend. Better get Lockyer up to speed ASAP:wink:

Lockyer won't play KPP. He is a medium player 191cm, a flanker probably as that is the role he has in the Twos. I know the Swans website says Reg is 190cm but I am pretty sure that is a mistake. Most KPP these days are 193-196 or even taller in the case of Tippett.

[jono2707]

Lockyer won't play KPP. He is a medium player 191cm, a flanker probably as that is the role he has in the Twos. I know the Swans website says Reg is 190cm but I am pretty sure that is a mistake. Most KPP these days are 193-196 or even taller in the case of Tippett.

Sounds right to me - would it be correct to say that Alex Brown is being groomed as another key defender, along with Xav?

[wolftone57]

AJ is 193 cm and will be heavier than Ted in a year or 2, so I would count him as a KPP.

- - - Updated - - -

If we wanted to create another spot on our list, could we delist Tommy Walsh and resign him as an Irish International, which I believe may be separate from other list size calculations?

- - - Updated - - -



The list size, I believe, is a total of Senior and Rookie of 44, with the senior list between 38 and 40 and the the rookie list 4-6. I think we started the year with a full contingent of 6 Rookie A List players, but not certain.

So we actually have 3 open spots at this point. Elevating Rampe doesn't change the total. Perris reduces our active picks to 2. So we now have picks (around) 14 and 30 as effective live picks. I'm not sure if we can expect to get anyone better at pick 48 than what we already have on our list. Would you trade anyone on our list for a pick 48? I am not sure about Lockyer, Armstrong or Brown, but would prefer to give each another year rather than exercise a pick 48.

We actually had seven rookies at the start of the year. We had three players that were Rookie Zone inclusion or Academy players who do not fall within the restriction, BJ, Rampe & Naismith. We can always de-list players on the main list and pick them up as rookies later. Lockyer might fit into this situation. Dick was only picked up this year so has one more year to run on contract so I don't know if you can rookie list a list player who is still contracted. It would be good if we can as we have some more deserving players at this time.

The other thing is do we risk players who have lately been an injury risk. Players like LRT, Shaw and even Goodsie who are all in the sunset of their careers? What would happen if they were to spend considerable time out again next year? As much as every one of those players is revered and respected there comes a time for a full body assessment to see if they are going to be able to front up for at least 75% of games next year. If not they should retire. The tests I am talking about are the stress and body endurance tests given to athletes and triathlon competitors to prove their fitness. These are by far the hardest fitness tests of all and they soon discover if the injuries are going to be long term and not just short term.

I think by the way we have seen the best of LRT, Ryano, Rhyce & Goodsie and if they play on it will be in a much more diluted role due to injury management. Maybe it is time to look at all retiring as well.

- - - Updated - - -


They play as small forwards, that's where the comparison ends though.

I'm not comparing him to McGlynn. McGlynn is a tough hard defensive type forward, and good at it. But he lacks class and his finishing in front of the sticks is so so at best.

As I said before, IMO, what would really compliment our forward line is a classy small forward, who can conjure goals from nothing....like Betts.

I don't know where you get the idea he is dodgy in front of the sticks. He has kicked 28.16 this year which is a pretty good goal percentage. Shooting at around 65%, I think the league average for forwards is between 50-60% so he is in the top bracket. By the way Eddie has kicked 20.10 this year in 15 and Benny 28 in 18. I am not for getting rid of Benny for a bloke who can be at times lazy and very easily put off his game.

- - - Updated - - -


Sounds right to me - would it be correct to say that Alex Brown is being groomed as another key defender, along with Xav?

Yes but like Lockyer is a bit on the short side (191) to be taking on KPP forwards in the AFL. He is also a bit on the light side a little in build like Lewis Johnston. I know he is being groomed for KPP but I am not sure about it at the moment it is the lack of height that worries me. He is a good footballer and makes good decisions, he is a great spoiler but when he has to mind a huge forward it is a bit of a problem although getting better at not bodying and jumping over them. Xav is a true KPP 194 and got the right sort of build and will get stronger although strong already, I think he is a real talent.

By the way I don't know who does the heights on our AFL site but Reg is definitely NOT 190cm and nor is he 88kg. What the @@@@ are they doing there, he has somebody else's stats. They are so good they have him down in the overall stats for the year as not kicking a goal and he kicked 1.1 against Bullies.

[Alan]

Never saw Morton do that at the Tigers either....but he does it in spades at the Swans.

Fair point...I guess. I never really watch either side but, your point is spot on, Mitch had to earn a game with us by doing all those things. So who, then, is most likely to adapt to our style?

[RogueSwan]

...By the way I don't know who does the heights on our AFL site but Reg is definitely NOT 190cm and nor is he 88kg. What the @@@@ are they doing there, he has somebody else's stats. ...

This site (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-sydney-swans--heath-grundy)says 192 and 100.

[Ludwig]

I'm not so sure about the height and weight figures on the roster sites. Goodes is now listed at 191 cm. I've seen him listed as high as 194 in previous years.

I wouldn't make too much about a centimeter or 2 as for defining a KPP, especially when it comes to younger players. They still can grow a bit up to 22 yo. Lockyer is listed at 191 cm, 91 kg. He has a fairly big frame and is likely to get close to the 100 kg mark, as Grundy is. If he has he ability, I don't think size will prevent him from holding down a key position spot. Josh Gibson is 189, Dale Morris is 190, Craig Bolton was 190 also I believe. Some of the best KPDs around are 192 cm, Richards, McFarlane and Matt Scralett. I don't think being 1 cm shorter would have changed much.

[rb4x]

Hi Wolfie

I think it was Robinson not Rampe who fell outside the rookie draft restrictions.

[tasmania60]

I'm taking this as a joke?

Gents we need to go a another raiding party to Melbourne ( Carlton) there's going to be a garage sale and some of those aboriginal players have been wasted (skills -speed) ?