2013 not yet re-signed....

[Ajn]

http://www.redandwhiteonline.com/wiki/index.php?title=2013
The list shows 15 names yet to resign, heard Richards mention he has another year.
We have a number of rookies to promote, hope we don't miss on any

Jed Lamb (worried he may go home, lack of opportunity?)
Andrejs Everitt (not yet sold on him...)
Alex Johnson (go home factor?)
Jesse White (likely trade, think cap may not have allowed for him to resign)
Jude Bolton (ret.)
Martin Mattner (ret.)
Rhyce Shaw (ret. I wish)
Shane Mumford (Likely to go?)
Mitch Morton (ret.)
Shane Biggs (shows talent)
Daniel Robinson (shows talent)
Jake Lloyd (shows talent)
Xavier Richards (shows talent)
Sam Naismith (shows talent)
Brandon Jack (shows talent)

[jetts32]

With Mumford most likely leaving I doubt White will leave, he's been good this year.
I hope Lamb stays, it took me a while to be sold on him, but I think he shows real potential with Stevie J type skills.
B.Jack will deffinatly stay with his brother, probably same as Richards.
Biggs, Lloyd and Johnson have to stay! Biggs and Lloyd have shown great potential and obviously Johnson is already a great player.

Dammit Swans, sign these guys!

[mcs]

This is my take:

- Johnson will not be going anywhere unless he asks for a trade- club know how good he is and they are probably just trying to iron out the bigger names contracts before deciding what they can offer him. I'd be astounded if we let him go, and I doubt there would be a lot of interest from other clubs (given he is coming off getting the same ACL fixed twice) at this stage.
-Morton/Mattner/Bolton are retiring.
- Shaw will stick around - no way that he would have a LARS operation if he didn't intend on going around.
- Biggs, Llyold, Xavier Richards, Naismith, Jack will all be kept on. Biggs and Jack have shown their talent, Xavier is an obvious successor plan player for the backline, and Naismith is a good project who looks to have talent if his body stays right. Llyold has been very good in reserves and will clearly be knocking on the door of the seniors next year, so the club I doubt will be letting him go anywhere.
- I don't know much about Dan Robinson - ressies people will no doubt have a view.
- Lamb - would not suprise me to see him seek a trade, although he has shown enough this year that the club I think will want to keep him on.
- Everitt - has done well this year, but I'm not convinced he is in our best 22 when all fit. If we can keep him on the right $$$, then he will stay.
- That leaves Jesse and Mummy. Mummy will be very difficult to keep, as surely we don't have the $$$ to match what will be offered by GWS, or potentially someone like Collingwood or Hawthorn. I hope he stays, but this is very much a 50/50 one at this stage.
- And good old Jesse Jane. I'm very happy with his improvement this year, but I'd be suprised if the club doesn't seriously consider a decent offer made for him by other clubs. Another tough one, but I think he will probably leave.

[Melbournehammer]

just as an aside I have no idea why you would say ret i wish re rhyce shaw. he has been a seriously good player for us and although injured a lot this year i wouldnt be moving him on until weve got the last bit of footy out of him.

[Ajn]

just as an aside I have no idea why you would say ret i wish re rhyce shaw. he has been a seriously good player for us and although injured a lot this year i wouldnt be moving him on until weve got the last bit of footy out of him.

Nothing against him, just thinking succession plan to bring in someone younger than his 32 years of age.
2 big injuries have limited him this year and at 33 is not likely to get much better.
More concern that a younger replacement mey move on, leaving us with a gap in the next year of retirements...

Goodes, ROK, LRT, Richards maybe (all pushing into the 30's and coontracts ending 2014)

[wolftone57]

http://www.redandwhiteonline.com/wiki/index.php?title=2013
The list shows 15 names yet to resign, heard Richards mention he has another year.
We have a number of rookies to promote, hope we don't miss on any

Jed Lamb (worried he may go home, lack of opportunity?)
Andrejs Everitt (not yet sold on him...)
Alex Johnson (go home factor?)
Jesse White (likely trade, think cap may not have allowed for him to resign)
Jude Bolton (ret.)
Martin Mattner (ret.)
Rhyce Shaw (ret. I wish)
Shane Mumford (Likely to go?)
Mitch Morton (ret.)
Shane Biggs (shows talent)
Daniel Robinson (shows talent)
Jake Lloyd (shows talent)
Xavier Richards (shows talent)
Sam Naismith (shows talent)
Brandon Jack (shows talent)

Just a couple of things. Jack, Naismith, Richards, Lloyd and Robinson are all first year rookies and will be resigned automatically unless we delist them and there is Buckley's and none that any of these boys are getting away.

Mumford has been linked to Pies recently but I hope it isn't true.

Lamb, Everitt, White, Biggs & Johnson will all be offered either contracts or extensions. But the retirements will depend on list management and Shaw may be asked to retire. The other thing is that even though Goodsie has anther year on his contract will his body stand up? I personally don't think it will, after all he spent a good deal of last season out and even more of this season out and couldn't manage to get fit at all in the end. LRT and Ryano could go around for another year if they have the will to do it.

So the upshot is that Mattner, Morton and Bolton retire therefore leaving three spaces on the list. Lockyer, Walsh & Dick can be dropped to the rookie list to make more room. If Goodes and Shaw retire then there are too more spaces to fill. That makes 8 to fill. Biggs & Rampe would be upgraded leaving 5 more spaces. This depends on whether Longmire sees himself wanting to develop for the future, next year and beyond, or staying with the past and keeping older injury ridden players on the list.

[woo]

HERE HERE re Shaw. Sorry, always know when to leave. Bolton knows(hurts to say)...Mattner knew....Shaw it's time to leave the house.

[Go Swannies]

HERE HERE re Shaw. Sorry, always know when to leave. Bolton knows(hurts to say)...Mattner knew....Shaw it's time to leave the house.

That'll make him sorry he's had the surgery to play on. I hope he's the one that gives us the drive out of the backline for next year's Premiership. On the other hand, a lot of people here thought Bolton should have gone at the end of last year. And I presume we scrap Goodes, too - he's the oldest? And LRT? Maybe a year left in Pyke, with luck? Mal's no spring chicken - and McVeigh's been around forever and has a dodgy knee, apparently. Time for a clean out.

[Mug Punter]

Have a feeling we won't be able to afford to keep both Mummy and Jesse and we'll need to sacrifice one.

No brainer for me with Mummy, use the $200K plus we'll save on Jesse to top up his salry and get a decent trade for Jesse. Perhaps we can bundle him and our first round pick for a top 10 draft pick. Could be a very tempting offer for a club like the doggies....

[AnnieH]

Goodness gracious.
I'm not even going to bother with this one.

You people are nuts.
;)

[jono2707]

Getting LARS done on a knee does not necessarily mean Shaw will play on next year. I understand it is becoming more common in general as an option and that in itself wouldn't mean that Rhyce playing on is a fait accompli. I think there will still be some consideration given to his place on the 2014 list but also, he sounds like he's been a great clubman recently so the club wouldn't necessarily be keen to cut him. Could be a tricky decision...

[Doctor]

Nothing against him, just thinking succession plan to bring in someone younger than his 32 years of age.
2 big injuries have limited him this year and at 33 is not likely to get much better.)

That's fair enough thinking but I don't think it matches up with your original comment of "I wish", which suggests you don't rate him and want him to leave, which is unfair on a player who has been so good for us and is a Premiership player.

I suspect he's planning to stay if the LARS works, and I think another year is fair enough, even if it has to be on a reduced contract.

In terms of the other signings, it really does depend on how much we have left to play with and whether or not we're planning to dip into the free agent or trade market ourselves. Considering our talls now, with LRT & Reid to come back, it does seem that we're unbalanced. Having said that, the Mummy/Pyke double act has been so good for us I don't know why we'd want to break that up unless we had to.

Everitt is exactly what you want in a squad player (team guy, versatile, experienced) so we'd do well to keep him if he's realistic about his worth.

White is the one I still can't make up my mind about. He's been great for us (finally) this year, but if he gets a massive offer and we can trade him in a way that will help the team, we'd be mad not to consider it. We want to continue to refresh the squad without it reducing in quality, all within the confines of a salary cap. It's not an easy process.

[Bloodthirsty]

Need to keep White. Need to keep Mumford as well if possible. With so many retirements, I thought it would be possible.

[aardvark]

Geez guys Colless came out in the middle of the year and stated publicly that we have room in the cap for at least one more established player. With 3 retirements already we have tons of room to keep whoever we want..........if that's what we want!

[Ludwig]

Need to keep White. Need to keep Mumford as well if possible. With so many retirements, I thought it would be possible.

At this point there are only 3 retirements and no obvious delistings, so we are just at the minimum. The other possible retirements are all on contract. With the LARS surgery, Shaw should know if he can go on by the time of the National Draft.

[goswannies]

Goodness gracious.
I'm not even going to bother with this one.

You people are nuts.
;)

Voice of reason!

[Doctor]

Geez guys Colless came out in the middle of the year and stated publicly that we have room in the cap for at least one more established player. With 3 retirements already we have tons of room to keep whoever we want..........if that's what we want!

Yep. "If that's what we want" being the key statement. We were quite ruthless last year with who we cut so that may not happen again this year.

[707]

Don't think there will be much happen dramatic this year unless Mumford leaves which will free up another spot and more salary cap, then it will get interesting.

Some of the previous comments appear well way from reality. We had a big clean out last year so this year will be more restrained and all the rookies look like keepers which is nice.

[Mug Punter]

Don't think there will be much happen dramatic this year unless Mumford leaves which will free up another spot and more salary cap, then it will get interesting.

Some of the previous comments appear well way from reality. We had a big clean out last year so this year will be more restrained and all the rookies look like keepers which is nice.

Mumford leaving would be a massive issue for us as top line ruckmen are not exactly floating around these days. Pike is fine as a number 2 and I guess we have KT as another option but it would create a massive hole in our list.

Can see them really going all out to re-sign him. Cannot understand the euphoria over Jesse, he has had a servicable season and he'd leave with my best wishes but him walking won't be a huge loss. Reckon we would be a good fit for either the Demons or the Doggies next season....

[Matt80]

I'm backing Goodes to be in great shape for 2014, and I believe he will have a great season!

He did his PCL in the 2012 Grand Final and could not get going in the 2013 preseason, that led to him underdone in the early part in 2013, but he did put together match winning efforts against Collingwood and Essondon. His body will be ready for the rigours of preseason and he should start 2014 in great shape.

I see him playing the Jude Bolton small forward role in 2014, with some burst periods on the ball. He would be able to be at the feet of Kurt Tippett, Sam Reid and Jesse White. He would require a decent opponent, which would help the other tall targets. When he does find space he would also be a damaging over head target.

[Ludwig]

Mumford leaving would be a massive issue for us as top line ruckmen are not exactly floating around these days. Pike is fine as a number 2 and I guess we have KT as another option but it would create a massive hole in our list.

Can see them really going all out to re-sign him. Cannot understand the euphoria over Jesse, he has had a servicable season and he'd leave with my best wishes but him walking won't be a huge loss. Reckon we would be a good fit for either the Demons or the Doggies next season....

Respectfully disagree on most counts here.

Jesse White has been more than just serviceable. In fact, I believe in the back half of this season he has put together the best performance either he or Sam Reid has had for any similar period. He's been right up there with many of the better forwards in the league. In last week's game he had some truly first rate passages of play with third efforts, good marking and excellent field kicking. In particular, I am thinking about the stretch of play leading up to Parker's second goal. I am becoming ever more convinced that he is a quality CHF.

Pyke is an excellent tap ruckman who is more than capable of filling the number 1 ruckman role, as he has on many occasions. No doubt that Mummy is a high quality ruckman too. The 2 of them are a good combination. But perhaps along with Tippett and White, we are a bit top heavy as they say. Tippett and White are both very good ruckmen for key forwards, and believe a Pyke, Tippett and White combo is the best scenario going forward. I can't see any holes here. I don't think inserting Reid for White changes this picture. Both are athletic, quick and mobile. The advantage of White is that he can ruck a well. I think Reid's best position will be at CHB.

I think signing Mummy, as good as he is, will create a situation of having too many good tall players and will find it difficult playing them all at the same time. They are all too good to be depth players.

[Matt80]

Well done Ludwig! Agree with what you have said.

Letting go of Mumford may be good Business for the Swans. We could get a late first round pick for him after getting him for a second round pick.

The Jolly trade to Collingwood was good business for the Swans as we got a first round pick, and his 4 years at Collingwood we not as good as his seasons with the Swans.

Mumford is 27 now and his next four years may not be as productive as his previous 4 years. The time may be right to get good value for Mumford!

[bloodsbigot]

It will be a tragedy if we lose Lamb.

Not sure why he doesn't play more regularly. Guy is class.

[Jewels]

It will be a tragedy if we lose Lamb.

Not sure why he doesn't play more regularly. Guy is class.

Agree

[crackedactor]

It will be a tragedy if we lose Lamb.

Not sure why he doesn't play more regularly. Guy is class.I agree also 100%, he has a touch of class. I think he is much better value than Cunningham and I am hoping Lamb plays this weekend. If not I will be disappointed.

[Matt80]

Lamb does have good skills and good hands, but he does not seem as fast or as strong defensibly as othet swans players.

Garry Rohan is fast and always gives a full hearted physical contest in at every opportunity.

[DA_Swan]

Can any of those happy to see Mumford leave and rely on Pyke as our "Tap Ruckman" let me know when they have seen Pyke give off a pass by foot like Mumford did to Cunningham or Pyke make a second and third effort when the ball is on the ground and then give a knock on or hand pass to advantage - it is why Mumford is so much better than Pyke when the going is tough in tight or around the ground - Pyke is a better mark and and a good set shot - Mumford is a better "footballer" and does the 1% much better than Pyke - he will be a huge loss if he goes

[dimelb]

It will be a tragedy if we lose Lamb.

Not sure why he doesn't play more regularly. Guy is class.

My worry with Lamb is that we will find ourselves in the same predicament that Brisbane did with Craig Bolton, and if so, we will rue the day we let him go. He may not be super fast like Jetts or B Jack, but he is fast enough, a very clever player, strong through the midfield and generally a good reliable kick. He ought to be Jude's automatic replacement.
And I think it's worth working out how to keep Mummy on the books.

[Ludwig]

Can any of those happy to see Mumford leave and rely on Pyke as our "Tap Ruckman" let me know when they have seen Pyke give off a pass by foot like Mumford did to Cunningham or Pyke make a second and third effort when the ball is on the ground and then give a knock on or hand pass to advantage - it is why Mumford is so much better than Pyke when the going is tough in tight or around the ground - Pyke is a better mark and and a good set shot - Mumford is a better "footballer" and does the 1% much better than Pyke - he will be a huge loss if he goes

This is quite true, but still doesn't change the equation of what is best for team balance. I think if we could foresee what a great contested mark and kick for goal that Pyke would become this year and how much Jesse White would improve, we may have not chased after Tippett. So it turns out that we are heavily committed to a Tippett and Pyke combination and have Mummy and White out of contract. Reid is on the sidelines waiting for a spot next season.

Now we have this dilemma of how many of these can realistically fit into the same side. Who doesn't play if all of these tall play? Who to keep and who to let go?

It's not an easy call. There's probably talks that have been going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. Maybe a decision has already been made. Maybe there's a trade just waiting for the end of the season.

[AnnieH]

I'm backing Goodes to be in great shape for 2014, and I believe he will have a great season!

He did his PCL in the 2012 Grand Final and could not get going in the 2013 preseason, that led to him underdone in the early part in 2013, but he did put together match winning efforts against Collingwood and Essondon. His body will be ready for the rigours of preseason and he should start 2014 in great shape.

I see him playing the Jude Bolton small forward role in 2014, with some burst periods on the ball. He would be able to be at the feet of Kurt Tippett, Sam Reid and Jesse White. He would require a decent opponent, which would help the other tall targets. When he does find space he would also be a damaging over head target.

What he said.
(Just quietly, I'm waiting for the "Goodesy's going to retire" announcement. I'm thinking it'll happen after we play our last game. Shhhhhhhhh. Don't tell anyone.)

[Go Swannies]

Can any of those happy to see Mumford leave and rely on Pyke as our "Tap Ruckman" let me know when they have seen Pyke give off a pass by foot like Mumford did to Cunningham or Pyke make a second and third effort when the ball is on the ground and then give a knock on or hand pass to advantage - it is why Mumford is so much better than Pyke when the going is tough in tight or around the ground - Pyke is a better mark and and a good set shot - Mumford is a better "footballer" and does the 1% much better than Pyke - he will be a huge loss if he goes

Pyke's kick off the ground to Jetta in the dying minutes of the 2012 Grand Final was helpful. Every time I view it I marvel at his composure.

[MightyBloods]

Can any of those happy to see Mumford leave and rely on Pyke as our "Tap Ruckman" let me know when they have seen Pyke give off a pass by foot like Mumford did to Cunningham or Pyke make a second and third effort when the ball is on the ground and then give a knock on or hand pass to advantage - it is why Mumford is so much better than Pyke when the going is tough in tight or around the ground - Pyke is a better mark and and a good set shot - Mumford is a better "footballer" and does the 1% much better than Pyke - he will be a huge loss if he goes

Agree with this.
I don't like the vibes with Mummy flagging early this year his intention not to look at an extension until season end. The Swans have always had a great recent record of locking away their stars. Dale Thomas and Buddy have made similar statements. History tells me that these guys already have made a decision to move on but won't say anything until they've played their last game (unlike the NRL).

If Mummy chooses to move on:

GWS - I have a gut feeling that this is his destination and GWS could take him first in the pre-season draft. They hold the aces and we would not get anything in compensation. About the only option that we would have is to try and do a trade with not just Mumford involved (ie Mumford and another Swan) for an earlier GWS draft pick/s.

Haw - No doubt the Hawks have got itchy feet on waiting for Franklin's decision. It has put 'on ice' some possible gains such as Mumford or Dale Thomas until he makes his decision. If it is Mummy's destination then a trade is likely. I just don't see it being for draft pick/s and the Swans playing hard to trade for a player or players. Hawthorn would be nervous to try and make it happen with their late pick in the pre-season draft. Players that the Swans may show interest: Breust, Suckling, Schoenmakers, Isaac Smith. For the record I'd love Isaac Smith or Luke Breust to be part of any deal. The Swans admitted after draft day that they were disappointed missing out on Smith in the 2010 draft (Haw got him 2 picks before our pick which happened to be Jed Lamb). Both Breust and Smith are NSW boys.

Coll -Similar to the Hawthorn situation.
I think Coll would be happy to make it a straight swap, Heath Shaw for Mumford. I have a feeling that the Swans may be tempted. Our best scenario is for Mummy not to want GWS and to choose either Haw/Coll which would allow us to be harder with both clubs in our dealings (ie both Haw /Coll being afraid that Mumford could agree to go to either club...both powerful Melb based). My preference, if it is Coll, is to play hard ball and dig in for Ben Reid. I'd even go as far as wanting both Shaw and Reid and giving them Mumford, our 1st Rd pick and maybe someone like White/Lamb. I have a gut feeling that there will be some pressure from our player group to particularly get Heath Shaw. If we were to lose Mumford and White in trade deals then we could go for ruck cover in other deals/picks (ie Currie returning...more mature, impressed early at North this year and cheaper by both draft pick and salary.

[liz]

No Cookies | thetelegraph.com.au (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/afl/sydney-cool-their-interest-in-heath-shaw-with-their-aging-defence-the-focus/story-fnahs424-1226722249920)

No idea on how good the sources are, but this article indicates that the Swans want to keep both White and Mumford, and also that their interest in Heath Shaw is waning (if, in fact, it was ever there).

[Matt80]

The thing that always impresses me about Pyke is that he always steps up with something when the chips are down! Think about his effort in the 2012 GF when Mumford was struggling. This year his performance against Geelong in Geelong was great and his performance in the Qualifying Final against the Hawks was also strong. When things are tough big Mike always steps up!

[Auntie.Gerald]

i know that Dane has been below his 2013 best in some of the last 5 games but honestly believe that this kid could go onto to be a very high level player for us hence i dont see a need for Heath Shaw as I see Mal and Rampe being play makers out of our HBF with Shaw for another season at least and we have Biggs coming along with Cunningham who could take on a role in the future as a small back

Rampe in in my opinion will do it fairly easy in the backs by next season and by all accounts has done very very well in his 1st season in the AFL this year.

Dane could over time move into the midfield like Kennedy as a project especially if Biggs keeps developing and AJ comes back. I also think why on earth couldnt Rampe do a role like Birdy??? Birdy is slower, not as fit and has a short kick........Rampe could in my opinion push for a tagging role.

Kennedy prior to coming to the Swans had some of the worst kicking skills I have ever seen on an AFL midfielder........Josh's role was dumbed down and he put 110% effort into his inside midfield work and fitness

I look at Dane Rampe and I dont think he will be in our backs much beyond 2014 unless our midfield is so stacked with talent we dont need him

Dane is top 3 in all the running events at the club and came out on top of the pre season timed drills overall amongst all players.

The guy has a thumping left foot kick, he is now 23 and strong as an oxe and he given another year in seniors he could easily start to impose himself rotating thru the middle and HBF a little like Sam Mitchell, Luke Hodge or Jimmy Bartel type role

now I know some of you may think that is way over the top and right now you are right, right and right !

Im just saying the first time I saw Luke Parker I said here is a 10 yr player

The first time I saw Mitchell I thought here is a 10 yr player

Equally first time I saw KJ or Bolton i didnt think they were 10yr players at all - so I have been equally wrong with KJ and Jude and lets see with Tom and Luke as there is a long way to go in their careers.......but following this argument it is a 50/50 that we could be right or wrong on a Dane Rampe !

so back to the story ..........The first game I watched of Rampe i couldnt help but think of a young Luke Hodge.........I also thought that Rampe exudes a real Bloods style player and Dane has the build, tank, left foot kick and above all attitude to compete, compete, compete and compete !

So in summary i dont want any more small to mid size defenders !!!

Another outside running player i think is in need and maybe another tall defender

[111431]

No Cookies | thetelegraph.com.au (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/afl/sydney-cool-their-interest-in-heath-shaw-with-their-aging-defence-the-focus/story-fnahs424-1226722249920)

No idea on how good the sources are, but this article indicates that the Swans want to keep both White and Mumford, and also that their interest in Heath Shaw is waning (if, in fact, it was ever there).

Hallelujah !!

[Ajn]

My hope is that all re-sign, although the cap may not allow it.
I think that we should be able to move Goodes to an outside vet, plus O'Keefe to get the other spot vacated by Bolts and go to outside vet.
That gives us half of ROK's salary off cap, plus two more spots on the list, along with 3 retirements.
Making space to upgrade those who deserve it and keeping all of our list. (even Shaw if they deem him necessary, but prefer as a backup to youth)

The 3 spots minimum in the draft can be for rookie promotions.
May not even have a "live" pick. Rookie draft will be busy with Perris and maybe others from reserves as possible options.

My main worry is the itchy feet of the youth who get left out of the side...

[Swansongster]

If Mummy wants a long term deal, maybe it can be back-ended so that he gets more money in year three and four. Which of course could raise its own issues further down the track. I suspect some of our signed young guns are also on back-ended, incentive-claused deals.

[liz]

My hope is that all re-sign, although the cap may not allow it.
I think that we should be able to move Goodes to an outside vet, plus O'Keefe to get the other spot vacated by Bolts and go to outside vet.
That gives us half of ROK's salary off cap, plus two more spots on the list, along with 3 retirements.
Making space to upgrade those who deserve it and keeping all of our list. (even Shaw if they deem him necessary, but prefer as a backup to youth)

The 3 spots minimum in the draft can be for rookie promotions.
May not even have a "live" pick. Rookie draft will be busy with Perris and maybe others from reserves as possible options.

My main worry is the itchy feet of the youth who get left out of the side...

Goodes has been on the vets list for salary cap purposes for a while, and I think ROK might have been too. There are different provisions in place now, whereby you can have as many as you like but only $100k each counts outside the cap. But there were also transition arrangements whereby the old method could apply for a while (beneficial if you had a single vet on a large salary). No idea which method the Swans have elected to use in the short term.

'Inside' / 'outside' distinction was abolished last year too. All senior lists are now 38-40 (regardless of number of vets), and rookie list is 4-6, up to a total of 44. We still have some capacity for additional NSW rookies, and all international rookies are outside the main list for at least their first year.

I also think that only one rookie upgrade can be counted towards the minimum ND quota of 3. But Perris could be counted as another if he is put straight onto the senior list.

[DK_]

I think if we could foresee what a great contested mark and kick for goal that Pyke would become this year and how much Jesse White would improve, we may have not chased after Tippett.

What does my head in is the question that, if we hadn't chased Tippett so hard, tried to trade Jesse to Adelaide and then have them opt to dob themselves in rather than take him, would Jesse have been given the boot which he apparently needed to lift from being a promising also-ran to a gun forward? So if we hadn't got Tippett, maybe Jesse might still be languishing in the magoos?

[Mug Punter]

What does my head in is the question that, if we hadn't chased Tippett so hard, tried to trade Jesse to Adelaide and then have them opt to dob themselves in rather than take him, would Jesse have been given the boot which he apparently needed to lift from being a promising also-ran to a gun forward? So if we hadn't got Tippett, maybe Jesse might still be languishing in the magoos?

It makes me laugh the way Jesse is trumpeted on here. The only reason he is getting any reviews is that he has gone from realising 2% of his potential to about 50%. I agree he is improved but I still reckon he goes missing when the heat is on...

Those suggesting he is more important than Mumford are totally deluded.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for the guy personally but I won't be too worried if he leaves for greener pastures - Reid and KT as our long term forwards will do for me any day. I'd be happy for us to resign him (which I wouldn't have said last year) but not at any cost.....

[aardvark]

It makes me laugh the way Jesse is trumpeted on here. The only reason he is getting any reviews is that he has gone from realising 2% of his potential to about 50%. I agree he is improved but I still reckon he goes missing when the heat is on...

Those suggesting he is more important than Mumford are totally deluded.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for the guy personally but I won't be too worried if he leaves for greener pastures - Reid and KT as our long term forwards will do for me any day. I'd be happy for us to resign him (which I wouldn't have said last year) but not at any cost.....

Totally agree!

[chalbilto]

It makes me laugh the way Jesse is trumpeted on here. The only reason he is getting any reviews is that he has gone from realising 2% of his potential to about 50%. I agree he is improved but I still reckon he goes missing when the heat is on...

Those suggesting he is more important than Mumford are totally deluded.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for the guy personally but I won't be too worried if he leaves for greener pastures - Reid and KT as our long term forwards will do for me any day. I'd be happy for us to resign him (which I wouldn't have said last year) but not at any cost.....

Spot on. It is imperative that we keep Mumford as he is I believe only 27.

[Mug Punter]

I have no issue with us keeping bith Jesse and Mumford and stretching the budget to do it - I believe this squad should be kept together and let to grow organically if we can.

Having said that, as Roosy says, most players can get overs at other clubs if they are at a successful club. Given we tried to trade Jesse last year and he is in a purple patch value wise at the moment, I cannot see loyalty being high on his list (nor should it really) so I expect him to go to the doggies or demons for significantly more than what we offer him. That means we need to do as much as we can to keep Mumford - if we can get within $75-100K per season of GWS I reckon loyalty and playing finals footy will keep him and we will probably need to offer him a four year deal.

[Swansongster]

I have no issue with us keeping bith Jesse and Mumford and stretching the budget to do it - I believe this squad should be kept together and let to grow organically if we can.

Having said that, as Roosy says, most players can get overs at other clubs if they are at a successful club. Given we tried to trade Jesse last year and he is in a purple patch value wise at the moment, I cannot see loyalty being high on his list (nor should it really) so I expect him to go to the doggies or demons for significantly more than what we offer him. That means we need to do as much as we can to keep Mumford - if we can get within $75-100K per season of GWS I reckon loyalty and playing finals footy will keep him and we will probably need to offer him a four year deal.

I don't think Roos will chase him too hard. Doggies could well do with such a player.

[Ludwig]

It makes me laugh the way Jesse is trumpeted on here. The only reason he is getting any reviews is that he has gone from realising 2% of his potential to about 50%. I agree he is improved but I still reckon he goes missing when the heat is on...

Those suggesting he is more important than Mumford are totally deluded.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for the guy personally but I won't be too worried if he leaves for greener pastures - Reid and KT as our long term forwards will do for me any day. I'd be happy for us to resign him (which I wouldn't have said last year) but not at any cost.....

I can't wait till Jesse reaches 90% of his potential. He'll be a shoe-in for the Brownlow.

The delusion is how some are judging White's performance this year. Look at Reid's performance before he was injured and compare it to White's. We talk about how we can't wait for Reid to return, but his performance is mediocre compared to White's. Agree about Whites's underperforming past, but he should be judged on how he's doing now. BTW, I love the way Reid played in defence the times he's gone back. I think he'd be better than his brother.

No doubting Mummy's quality. But what do you do when you have 2 of the top 10 ruckmen in the competition and you might better off for team balance to play only one? Over the long haul would another 1st round draft pick be worth more than a potentially superfluous second ruckmen?

For me, this is a list management issue, not whether Mummy is a high quality player or not. If you're Hawthorn, and you had to choose between Mummy and White, you would definitely take Mummy. But we are strong in the rucks and but have some aging KPPs, so for our list, White is the more important one.

[Melbourne_Blood]

White has had the benefit of playing alongside Tippett, Reid hasn't. Therefore I don't think you can judge anything White has done this year as superior to anything Reid has done in the past because Reid hasn't played in the side with this very significant advantage. Whites been awesome, no denying. I think it's ignorant though to start forgetting the talent Reid has, the potential he has yet to reach, and how he might play when he gets his chance with Tippo taking most of the heat from the opposition defenders. White has 4 years on Reid. I would be surprised if Reid hasn't achieved far more by the time he is Whites age.

[Ludwig]

White has had the benefit of playing alongside Tippett, Reid hasn't. Therefore I don't think you can judge anything White has done this year as superior to anything Reid has done in the past because Reid hasn't played in the side with this very significant advantage. Whites been awesome, no denying. I think it's ignorant though to start forgetting the talent Reid has, the potential he has yet to reach, and how he might play when he gets his chance with Tippo taking most of the heat from the opposition defenders. White has 4 years on Reid. I would be surprised if Reid hasn't achieved far more by the time he is Whites age.

I agree with all of this. I also think Reid will be a super player whether he plays forward or back. I think he has many similarities to brother Ben, but will be better.

It is worth noting that White has played 2 of his best games when Tippett was not in the side (round 23 and last game). Furthermore, Reid has had the advantage of playing most games with Goodes in the team, while White has not.

Clearly, there have been wasted years in White's career when he (admittedly) hasn't applied himself. Chronologically he is 4 years older than Reid, but developmentally, they are about equal.

[Mug Punter]

I agree with all of this. I also think Reid will be a super player whether he plays forward or back. I think he has many similarities to brother Ben, but will be better.

It is worth noting that White has played 2 of his best games when Tippett was not in the side (round 23 and last game). Furthermore, Reid has had the advantage of playing most games with Goodes in the team, while White has not.

Clearly, there have been wasted years in White's career when he (admittedly) hasn't applied himself. Chronologically he is 4 years older than Reid, but developmentally, they are about equal.

I'm mildly encouraged by the big Jesse this year but I still think he is prone to having too many stinkers and going MIA. Maybe I am too hard a marker but he is coming such a low base and I just think we are all amazed he is actually contributing SOMETHING to the team. And the cynic in me suspects that once his career is secured with a million dollar four year deal he will slip back into his bad old habits (nothing like the dole queue to get you to pull your finger out)

I hope he stays, which is a huge wrap coming from me, but I just suspect that we will struggle to keep both players.

Am a huge fan of Mike_Pike but I reckon you need two decent rucks in your squad - assuming we have KT earmarked as a key forward we will need to trade for a ruckman should Mummy leave...

[Bloodthirsty]

If we could somehow trade Mumford and other stuff for H. Shaw and B. Reid, we'd have the best list in the AFL. Tippo would do way more rucking and that would solve the Tippett-centric problems of late at FF. Problem is that Collingwood would probably not give up Reid for anything.

Would that be 4 sets of brothers then?

[Doctor]

I have to agree with Mug Punter, although without disparaging others on here. Mumford is worth SO much more to us than White.

[MightyBloods]

If we could somehow trade Mumford and other stuff for H. Shaw and B. Reid, we'd have the best list in the AFL. Tippo would do way more rucking and that would solve the Tippett-centric problems of late at FF. Problem is that Collingwood would probably not give up Reid for anything.

Would that be 4 sets of brothers then?

Ben Reid becomes a 'restricted free agent' at the end of next season ...8 years with the Pies. I'm sure, if not now, the Swans will approach his management at some point in the near future for talks.

[Mug Punter]

Ben Reid becomes a 'restricted free agent' at the end of next season ...8 years with the Pies. I'm sure, if not now, the Swans will approach his management at some point in the near future for talks.

Would highly support a move for Ben Reid

[Ajn]

Would highly support a move for Ben Reid

Will be extremely unlikely. The fabric of our team is set in the group we have and the kids we have coming through.
Unlikely that Collingwood lose someone they want to keep.
Very rare for them to lose someone (many life after football options for players...not official but very real)

[Mug Punter]

We need some more power at the back IMO, time will tell. We have a strong record of also cherrypicking in established talent for specific roles and I think and additional defender could be on the shopping list as our mids and forwards are pretty well stocked

Also, whilst not meaning to denigrate Jesse, as he did try hard, but last night illustrated to me why I won't be heartbroken if he leaves (as opposed to _wanting_ him to leave)

[BillyRayCypress]

As Brad Scott said, need to be careful not to overate your list. I think that may be a problem with some on RWO.

[wolftone57]

I'm mildly encouraged by the big Jesse this year but I still think he is prone to having too many stinkers and going MIA. Maybe I am too hard a marker but he is coming such a low base and I just think we are all amazed he is actually contributing SOMETHING to the team. And the cynic in me suspects that once his career is secured with a million dollar four year deal he will slip back into his bad old habits (nothing like the dole queue to get you to pull your finger out)

I hope he stays, which is a huge wrap coming from me, but I just suspect that we will struggle to keep both players.

Am a huge fan of Mike_Pike but I reckon you need two decent rucks in your squad - assuming we have KT earmarked as a key forward we will need to trade for a ruckman should Mummy leave...

I wouldn't trade for a ruckman as there are not too many good ones that are not required by their clubs. Warnock if he is not required will go to either GWS, Bullies or Port I would think but other than him there is not much in the pool. We have a very good rookie ruckman in Sam Naismith who after getting over injury proved how valuable he was to the reserves. Very talented young bloke and a future 1st ruck in the Polly Farmer style just about a foot taller.

[Mug Punter]

Shaun Hampson?

[Matt80]

Does Shaun Hampson still go out with Megan Gail?

[Mug Punter]

Does Shaun Hampson still go out with Megan Gail?

Indeed he does, reckon she could switch teams?

[aardvark]

Does Shaun Hampson still go out with Megan Gail?


Ooh can you imagine the "WAG" standoff with Miss Columbia. Fingernails at twenty paces. I'd like to see that!:clap:

[jono2707]

I wouldn't trade for a ruckman as there are not too many good ones that are not required by their clubs. Warnock if he is not required will go to either GWS, Bullies or Port I would think but other than him there is not much in the pool. We have a very good rookie ruckman in Sam Naismith who after getting over injury proved how valuable he was to the reserves. Very talented young bloke and a future 1st ruck in the Polly Farmer style just about a foot taller.

I think we'll look at other fringe ruckmen around the place, and possible even a few VFL/WAFL/SANFL if there are any guys worth looking at there. To compare a rookie listed, injury affected youngster in their first year on the list to one of the all-time greats of the game is pushing it a little bit. A bit more ruck cover will certainly be looked at.

[Panttz]

Mumford for #1 draft pick.
Trade that pick for a 24-26 yr old Key back + 8-15 draft pick.
Take a midfielder in the draft.

[Dosser]

Mumford for #1 draft pick.
Trade that pick for a 24-26 yr old Key back + 8-15 draft pick.
Take a midfielder in the draft.

Um... I want what you are on.

[Ludwig]

Mumford for #1 draft pick.
Trade that pick for a 24-26 yr old Key back + 8-15 draft pick.
Take a midfielder in the draft.

It will take a lot more than Mummy to get the #1 draft pick. The best we could hope for is the GWS mid round pick (probably #9), which is still pretty good.

[Panttz]

Green tea :)

Who else could we trade in addition to Mummy? Someone that GWS actually could use who wont be superseded in the next 2 years of development I mean

[Dosser]

Green tea :)

Who else could we trade in addition to Mummy? Someone that GWS actually could use who wont be superseded in the next 2 years of development I mean

ok, one from left field... Eski? He has currency, but only a few years left and we have AJ coming back as well as guys like Towers in the magoos.

[dimelb]

I can't see us trading Eski, and I don't think he has that much currency left as he turns 30 next year. On the other hand, and it hurts me to say this, there are probably several clubs who would be interested in Craig Bird, and he has a lot to offer.

[BillyRayCypress]

I have full faith that the Club can look at our list realistically and make the necessary decisions to improve for next year.

Scott said he would look at Geelong and make the necessary changes to improve. Buckley has done it as has Malthouse now.

We do have quite a few players that have value and when does the silly season begin this year. Will it be another long period?

[Captain]

Hopefully we get a decent pick for White and Mummy.

Was sad to see them go but not anymore.

Am confident Tippett, Reid and Pyke (and potentially Membrey/Walsh) will help fill the big man stocks whilst we develop or trade for another ruckman.

[Matt80]

What about Jed Lamb and Tony Armstrong for trade? They have not taken their chances this year and a change of scenery may help them!

[dimelb]

Tony might get more scope elsewhere, but I don't want to lose Jed. I think he is a master in the making.

[Ludwig]

I thought I would offer up a super aggressive trading strategy that could get us 4 picks in the top 15 of the draft. I have tried to be as realistic as possible about the needs of other clubs and what other teams would accept in a trade; I have tried to take the emotion out of it by even sending 2 of my favourites to the trading block.

The point of this particular strategy is to trade players that I thought we could reasonably cover, or were not contracted yet, and had a good trade value. In exchange I wanted to be able to select particular players in the draft that I thought could help secure the Swans' future for some time to come.

I am not saying that I support this strategy, but it rather came about by thinking of the various possibilities and scenarios involving the draft and trade period. Afterwards I made a table of a possible best 22 and didn't think it looked all that bad. Conservatively, I didn't include any of the new players in the team. I would be quite pleased going into the season with the one shown below. If the actual draft picks materialised in fact, I would feel very good about the Swans future and believe we would have all bases covered for quite a number of years into the future. In the end we would get 2 KPPs (Jaksch, Gardiner), 2 tall utilities (Scharenberg, Bontempelli), 2 midfielders (Freeman, Perris) and a ruckman.

Trades:

1. Bird, Lamb, Armstrong, Pick 49 to Melbourne for Picks 2 and 37
2. Jesse White and Pick 37 (from Melb) to Brisbane for Pick 7
3. Mumford and Grundy, Pick 31 to GWS for Picks 9 and 53, Kristian Jaksch (KPP)


Additions:

National Draft

# 2 Matt Scharenberg (SA ? Def/Util) Height: 190cm, Weight: 89kg, DOB: 18/09/1995
# 7 Marcus Bontempelli (VIC ? Mid/Def) Height: 191cm, Weight: 83kg, DOB: 24/11/1995
# 9 Nathan Freeman (VIC ? Mid) Height: 181cm, Weight: 85kg, DOB: 16/06/1995
#14 Darcy Gardiner (VIC ? KPD) Height: 192cm, Weight: 84kg, DOB: 22/09/1995
#53 Best available Ruckman (Loob, Nankervis, Apeness)

* A good place to get some writeups on this year's draft prospects is: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightmares-2013-phantom-draft.983436/

Rookie Draft:

Lloyd Perris, added to list as scholarship player.
Mark Seaby or Darren Jolly or David Hille

Other Additions:
Kristian Jaksch (GSW draft pick #12 2012) Around 195 cm., can play forward or back.
Patrick Mitchell (203 cm American International rookie)

2014 Team


FB Alex Johnson, Ted Richards, Smith
HB Dane Rampe, LRT, Malceski
CTR Kieren Jack, McVeigh, Hannebery
INT Luke Parker Cunningham Dean Towers
Rk Kennedy, Pyke, Tom Mitchell
HF Jetta, Reid, ROK
FF Rohan, Tippett, Everitt
SUB Goodes
EMG Jake Lloyd, Brandon Jack, Tim Membrey
McGlynn, Shaw, Biggs

[Matt80]

Dimelb what do you see in Jed to say he is a master in the making?

This is his 3rd season on the list, same as Luke Parker, who was a lower draft pick than Jed in 2010.

Will Jed's 4th season on the list be as good as Luke Parker's 3rd on the list?

Lets also remember that in 2012, Lewis Jetta, another 1st round pick, had an incredible year in his 3rd year on the list!

It's time for Jed to start demonstrating why the people of red and white rate him so highly!

[Melbournehammer]

Hopefully we get a decent pick for White and Mummy.

Was sad to see them go but not anymore.

Am confident Tippett, Reid and Pyke (and potentially Membrey/Walsh) will help fill the big man stocks whilst we develop or trade for another ruckman.

without reading the rest of the thread - are they definitely gone or is this speculation

- - - Updated - - -


I thought I would offer up a super aggressive trading strategy that could get us 4 picks in the top 15 of the draft. I have tried to be as realistic as possible about the needs of other clubs and what other teams would accept in a trade; I have tried to take the emotion out of it by even sending 2 of my favourites to the trading block.

The point of this particular strategy is to trade players that I thought we could reasonably cover, or were not contracted yet, and had a good trade value. In exchange I wanted to be able to select particular players in the draft that I thought could help secure the Swans' future for some time to come.

I am not saying that I support this strategy, but it rather came about by thinking of the various possibilities and scenarios involving the draft and trade period. Afterwards I made a table of a possible best 22 and didn't think it looked all that bad. Conservatively, I didn't include any of the new players in the team. I would be quite pleased going into the season with the one shown below. If the actual draft picks materialised in fact, I would feel very good about the Swans future and believe we would have all bases covered for quite a number of years into the future. In the end we would get 2 KPPs (Jaksch, Gardiner), 2 tall utilities (Scharenberg, Bontempelli), 2 midfielders (Freeman, Perris) and a ruckman.

Trades:

1. Bird, Lamb, Armstrong, Pick 49 to Melbourne for Picks 2 and 37
2. Jesse White and Pick 37 (from Melb) to Brisbane for Pick 7
3. Mumford and Grundy, Pick 31 to GWS for Picks 9 and 53, Kristian Jaksch (KPP)


Additions:

National Draft

# 2 Matt Scharenberg (SA ? Def/Util) Height: 190cm, Weight: 89kg, DOB: 18/09/1995
# 7 Marcus Bontempelli (VIC ? Mid/Def) Height: 191cm, Weight: 83kg, DOB: 24/11/1995
# 9 Nathan Freeman (VIC ? Mid) Height: 181cm, Weight: 85kg, DOB: 16/06/1995
#14 Darcy Gardiner (VIC ? KPD) Height: 192cm, Weight: 84kg, DOB: 22/09/1995
#53 Best available Ruckman (Loob, Nankervis, Apeness)

* A good place to get some writeups on this year's draft prospects is: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightmares-2013-phantom-draft.983436/

Rookie Draft:

Lloyd Perris, added to list as scholarship player.
Mark Seaby or Darren Jolly or David Hille

Other Additions:
Kristian Jaksch (GSW draft pick #12 2012) Around 195 cm., can play forward or back.
Patrick Mitchell (203 cm American International rookie)

2014 Team


FB Alex Johnson, Ted Richards, Smith
HB Dane Rampe, LRT, Malceski
CTR Kieren Jack, McVeigh, Hannebery
INT Luke Parker Cunningham Dean Towers
Rk Kennedy, Pyke, Tom Mitchell
HF Jetta, Reid, ROK
FF Rohan, Tippett, Everitt
SUB Goodes
EMG Jake Lloyd, Brandon Jack, Tim Membrey
McGlynn, Shaw, Biggs

I dont understand why melbourne would possibly give up pick 2 for three fringe swans players, and how jesse suddenly became worth pick 7.

i could vaguely see the gws thing happening.

[Ludwig]

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I dont understand why melbourne would possibly give up pick 2 for three fringe swans players, and how jesse suddenly became worth pick 7.



I wouldn't call Bird a fringe player. I'd rate him as a worth around a pick 20. He is one of my favourites BTW. He should be one of our main on ballers except that we are so deep in that area. He is just what Melbourne need. Lamb was a Pick 21 and is skillful young player. Agree that Armstrong is a fringe player, but probably not so at Melbourne. All depends on how one values players, but I thought it was worth a pick #2 to get 3 players that would be in your 22 next year as it would be in Melbourne's case. If I were Roos, I would do that trade.

It's Jesse + pick 37 for pick 7. I rate Jesse highly and think Brisbane would too. He's a Queenslander and they desperately need a forward that can backup in the ruck. But I can see that others might disagree. It is a bit of a push.

Again, I am not suggesting that we do this, but is rather just a speculative trading and drafting scenario.

Thanks for your comments.

[dimelb]

Dimelb what do you see in Jed to say he is a master in the making?

This is his 3rd season on the list, same as Luke Parker, who was a lower draft pick than Jed in 2010.

Will Jed's 4th season on the list be as good as Luke Parker's 3rd on the list?

Lets also remember that in 2012, Lewis Jetta, another 1st round pick, had an incredible year in his 3rd year on the list!

It's time for Jed to start demonstrating why the people of red and white rate him so highly!

I've only seen Jed play a few times as I don't get to ressie matches, so I'm relying on my few glimpses and ressie-watchers' reports.
He has taken a while to settle and has had his share of injuries and niggles to get over. He is a good kick, both at goal and around the field, and heaven knows we are short of that at present. I would have had him in the finals team ahead of Benny McGlynn for those reasons alone. He can also be a very slippery customer to get hold of. He has a good awareness of what's happening around him and is a good onfield organiser, to the point where he has captained the reserves (I'm not sure how many times). He is determined and courageous, and is responsive to the coaches' input.
That'll do to go on with!

[Melbournehammer]

I like the strategy. But the reality is almost every club overrates their own players and underrates other teams. Bird is dime a dozen across the league - a defensively minded midfielder with neither strong hands nor a strong kick. Accurate shot at goal. Good tackler. Not fast. he has limited upside wherever he goes. He will be starting in a melbourne side which would cry out for midfield depth, but he is not much of an improvement without the depth of jack, jetta, parker, hanners, rok, macca around him. I wouldn't actually trade for him from outside the club - i think he is a solid player that you might trade for a mid 2nd to 3rd round pick. armstrong cant get into a side which was down to its bare bones. i like armstrong and i think he is nowhere near as bad as many make out but i think he has no trade currency. lamb has potential but is probably worth more to us as a player who probably takes bolton's place this season than to another team where he will be seen as a softish forward flanker wingman type.

i would make the trade in a hearbeat if i was the swans but i think it hugely unlikely.

pick 37 is the makewight in the pick for jesse. i think brisbane might come at that but only because they may well lose the entire 2011 and 2012 drafts as voss got moved on. but again i think it unlikely.

almost every other club values draft picks over established players. Melb may be different this year but i reckon they would think that pick 2 (without the priority pick) is for a genuinely elite 27-30 player and something else (another draft pick in the teens or so).

[Ludwig]

I like the strategy. But the reality is almost every club overrates their own players and underrates other teams. Bird is dime a dozen across the league - a defensively minded midfielder with neither strong hands nor a strong kick. Accurate shot at goal. Good tackler. Not fast. he has limited upside wherever he goes. He will be starting in a melbourne side which would cry out for midfield depth, but he is not much of an improvement without the depth of jack, jetta, parker, hanners, rok, macca around him. I wouldn't actually trade for him from outside the club - i think he is a solid player that you might trade for a mid 2nd to 3rd round pick. armstrong cant get into a side which was down to its bare bones. i like armstrong and i think he is nowhere near as bad as many make out but i think he has no trade currency. lamb has potential but is probably worth more to us as a player who probably takes bolton's place this season than to another team where he will be seen as a softish forward flanker wingman type.

i would make the trade in a hearbeat if i was the swans but i think it hugely unlikely.

pick 37 is the makewight in the pick for jesse. i think brisbane might come at that but only because they may well lose the entire 2011 and 2012 drafts as voss got moved on. but again i think it unlikely.

almost every other club values draft picks over established players. Melb may be different this year but i reckon they would think that pick 2 (without the priority pick) is for a genuinely elite 27-30 player and something else (another draft pick in the teens or so).

I find your comments on Bird very insightful. I am sure many, if not most RWOers, would agree with you. But I rate Bird very highly. To me, he is a very good inside midfielder looking for a spot that's not available. So he is forced to play roles that is not best suited for. Despite this, he manages to do very well tagging players much faster and more agile than he is.

When he does get opportunities to play on ball, he racks up possessions at a rate comparable to our elite midfielders. He's not quick, but has a good sidestep that makes him difficult to tackle. He kicks well on both sides which he often uses to great advantage. I would say he's a cleaver and versatile footballer that does well in whatever role you put him. A coaches dream.

It's a bit unfair to say he's a dime a dozen when he placed 9th in the B & F voting last year on a premiership team.

On Jesse White, perhaps pick 31 instead of pick 37 makes it a bit fairer. Personally, I would rather keep Jesse.

[MightyBloods]

without reading the rest of the thread - are they definitely gone or is this speculation

- - - Updated - - -



I dont understand why melbourne would possibly give up pick 2 for three fringe swans players, and how jesse suddenly became worth pick 7.

i could vaguely see the gws thing happening.

Agree, fringe/depth players won't get you draft ppick 2 these days. It used to happen as we fell for it in the early draft years.
I do rate the South Australian ..Scharenburg though. I watched the U/18s for the year and the kid looks a special.

- - - Updated - - -

A kid I really like is Tom Nicholls at the Suns. A young ruckman who played extremely well with Zac Smith out injured. I'd send Jesse to the Suns in a heartbeat for this kid. Not sure what happens with Mumford but if he chose to leave I'd use a draft pick to try and get him (2nd Rd pick would be good enough). We should get a first Rd pick for Mumford unless the Giants decide to take him for nothing.

[Ludwig]

I think there is a big gap between the #1 (Boyd) and the rest of the field this year. The draft is a bit of a lottery with the next 20 picks as they are all fairly close in talent. Another 10 places in the draft wouldn't make that much difference. Scharenberg looks like a solid pick and likely to go top 5, but there are plenty of others available in the first round, regardless of place. The sad part is that there are not many good KPPs in this draft. If we can't land someone from GWS in a trade, we may well take Gardiner, if he is still available, with our first pick.

Personally, I would just like to do the GWS trade combining Mummy and Grundy for pick 9 and one of their disgruntled KPPs. It will really get tough on them if the get Buddy.

I also think that Lamb may go, being an uncontracted player, and for lack of opportunities. I think he will be a good player, yet may be squeezed out at the Swans, not only from above, but also being passed by some quality players coming from below (Cunningham, BJ, Jake Lloyd and Lloyd Perris).

[On-Baller]

- - - Updated - - -

A kid I really like is Tom Nicholls at the Suns. A young ruckman who played extremely well with Zac Smith out injured. I'd send Jesse to the Suns in a heartbeat for this kid. Not sure what happens with Mumford but if he chose to leave I'd use a draft pick to try and get him (2nd Rd pick would be good enough). We should get a first Rd pick for Mumford unless the Giants decide to take him for nothing.
Yeah really good call on Nicholls, would trade for
him in a heartbeat but unfortunately i think his late season form will prevent the suns letting him go.

[liz]

Isn't Nicholls the one currently dating Tippett's sister?

Would love him at the Swans (for his footy ability, not the 'family' connection) but I think he recently signed a new contract with the Suns, suggesting he's happy where he is.

[Ludwig]

Wow, Kurt's sister is a very big girl. Sign her up. First Ruckwoman in the AFL.

[Auntie.Gerald]

I am going to start my draft summary from the perspective that I think our list is as good as any in the comp

As I stated in another thread, if 6 or more of the key players at the Hawks, Geelong or Freeo were not available in the final series and two or more of their players were not match fit on top of the 6 out then they would struggle also. In my opinion we would be an even contest against the top 4 teams with the same amount of injuries on both sides.

These guys make a massive difference to our best 22 and equally would make a massive difference to any team when not available:

Tippett
Goodes
LRT
Shaw
Mitchell
Morton
Mattner

Therefore on that basis i think we have a very strong list and maintaining what we have will be one of the biggest challenges and coping with our ageing list will be key.

The likely replacements over time for the below key ageing players are as per below and I think all of the below apprentices can be as good as their masters. I also think that most are ahead of them in ability at the same age......Goodes / Reid maybe not but different roles at the same age.

Bolton - Parker
ROK - Mitchell
Goodes - Reid
Ted - Xavier
Shaw - Cunningham
Mattner - Rampe
Mal - Dre, Marsh, BJ, A.Brown, Towers or recruit from outside via a trade...... but this is such a key role ie the guy who sets up a lot of play from deep and we were exposed massively in this area by Freeo.......maybe KJack needs some more time off HBF like Sam Mitchell or continue with Macca playing his part ?

So in short i think we are stong in all areas except our speed and delivery off HBF against the best teams.......still think we need some speed off the HBF unless Dre and Rampe continue their development and are allowed like the 2nd half of the game against Freeo to play wider and more attacking........

I am not sure if Towers went back to the forwards in 2013 ressies because he was not deemed good enough as a back and therefore would become a contender in the forwards if he peaked and was ready?

PS - i think we need to persist with Lambie another season.......he is a very good young player and I honestly think he is just as far along as Macca or Jude at the same age. In fact i was say some are being impatient and he could even be further along in his ability........his game sense has come along defensively in leaps and bounds through out the season and so to his work rate. Another pre season and he will be dangerous

[dimelb]

I agree with AG's assessment of the quality of our list, and with the idea that we don't have to do a lot by way of drafting or trading. A modest trade or two would be OK - sorting out the Mummy situation in particular, although my preference is to keep him.
What I would like to see more of is an in-house reshuffle with a view to more multi-skilled players. We have nurtured forward-mids (Jude, Benny, Parker, O'Keefe, Hannebery - the list goes on), but not too many back-mids (does Shaw do this occasionally? Eski?). For example, someone mentioned that our only real big-bodied mid is Josh, and that was an area where Freo had it over us. So how about Rampe moving into the middle now and then? I'd like to see him throwing his weight around there. I realise it is important to grow cohesion among the back six, especially when it's not just the same six, but I think there is room for a bit more flexibility.

[Dosser]

I am going to start my draft summary from the perspective that I think our list is as good as any in the comp

As I stated in another thread, if 6 or more of the key players at the Hawks, Geelong or Freeo were not available in the final series and two or more of their players were not match fit on top of the 6 out then they would struggle also. In my opinion we would be an even contest against the top 4 teams with the same amount of injuries on both sides.


I think we need to look a little more critically at this. Our midfield was basically at full strength all year and that is where we got beaten. Otherwise you have some good thoughts.

[dimelb]

I think we need to look a little more critically at this. Our midfield was basically at full strength all year and that is where we got beaten. Otherwise you have some good thoughts.

I think more work is needed on skills and positioning. I get the impression that Lyon has worked his crew obsessively in these areas.

[Melbournehammer]

i am clearly struggling to read the annual report i am supposed to be reading...

but the real question with the list is what are we aiming for. if we are aiming for a flag in the next two seasons we have to have a midfield which can compete and beat geelong, hawthorn and freo (and the pies, port and the crows). if we are aiming to be a top 8 team for 8 years then you may choose a different profile of player.

I think we are much too sanguine about our inside midfielders - we got hammered there against everyone of the better teams - and if truth were told we were smashed there last season in the finals as well - its just that the crows and hawks didnt make the most of their chances and the pies were struggling at the time. so against the top end talent we have struggled a bit over the past two seasons. but our defence which was that basis upon which we won the flag - imagine losing the clerances against the crows and the hawks and the inside fifty by nearly 1/3 and still win the flag ??

secondly i am glad dosser has said what he has said - if you guys get the chance go and watch our finals campaign again and watch how many times we missed targets - wide open players going forwards. Not situations where some opponent chopped off a kick by leaving their man but situations where we had a free player and simply missed them. we got away with against the blues but were punished mercilessly by the hawks (we didnt see the ball again for two minues) and we only ever had about 10 chances to move the ball against freo and we missed targets almost every time.

the slingshot thing scored a lot of goals for us in 2012 because we scored a lot from 20 metres out - a good place to be shooting at goal from. but almost every club is now playing us with a sweeper twenty metres behind the last man. unless we improve our skills and force that player to be accountable by manning up by kicking to the spare on each occasion we are going to struggle to get that shot as often.

we need to be looking for a guerra type who can consistently hit targets and control things from the hbf - partly because we need macca so much kicking into the fifty.

so in my view we need:

1. a really good contested ball winner (and mitchell may be that player but he needs to be played on the ball like young libba and not as a hff where his kicking is his weakness rather than his hands)
2. a really highly skilled hbf who can control the game

rohan and jetta if both are fit will bring us the spread from the contest that we are missing but we need to start keeping the ball a bit more

without these i reckon there is a good chance of treading water in 2014 as rok and goodes retire. as they retire we will need to find some outlets in the midfield to mark the ball - as liz correctly says our midfield really lacks an ability to take marks which makes everything a contest and prevents us from getting any easy play

anyway i am hopeful for 2014 but we need to improve and the improvement has got to start with the coaches and the team list

[Blood Tunnel]

All we need to do is target an experienced player that fills our needs that can't get a regular crack at senior football at his club.
Often you would look at one of the top 5 or 6 clubs that are in striking distance of a p'ship. There will always be players that are down on confidence because of a lack of faith shown in them by their coach.

Jeremy Laidler (example only) at Carlton is such a player that was told by MM to play as a forward in the twos & learn the craft. In an interview on the w/end he clearly says he could not cope with this as he is a natural defender. He went to Carlton from a talent rich Geelong for more opportunities. He is clearly not part of M Malthouse's defensive plans
Should our coaches have a chat with him & tell him that they will play him down back & give him first crack at a defensive position, the confidence shown in him may deliver us another Mattner at the lower end of the salary scale & with no need to sacrifice a good draft pick for him. Heath Shaw would provide us with some sort of risk plus would need a higher draft pick & more money from our salary cap.

Laidler is just an example only.

[Nico]

I will harp on about this until we get it somewhere near right in games where it counts. That is we get belted out of the middle. On paper we can have "the best" midfield and I don't care how much the media rattles on about it, but with the forward press in vogue, if you get done by the likes of Freo out of the guts they will hound you in their forward line until you concede a goal. Then it goes back to the centre and it happens again and again and again. That is what happened in the first half.

To me this is most glaring flaw in our game. Our mids might rack up the stats but get rolled in the centre clearance clinches. I don't care what the overall contested possession counts are; the facts are we don't win them at centre bounces. On Saturday it was 14 to 5 centre clearances at 3 quarter time. Somewhere along the line the AFL app missed about 5 centre clearances so it was probably worse. What we did win were rubbish possessions. Our players seemed to have snails reflexes compared to Freos. Sides know that this is a huge flaw in our makeup and work on it. The Hawks did the same. Sides seem to put quick players in the guts against us.

[Ludwig]

so in my view we need:

1. a really good contested ball winner (and mitchell may be that player but he needs to be played on the ball like young libba and not as a hff where his kicking is his weakness rather than his hands)
2. a really highly skilled hbf who can control the game



I think you make some first rate observations Melbournehammer.

What is interesting is that we were the number 1 Hitouts and tackling team in the comp. I think we were also in the top 2 in clearances and contested possessions. This would seem to indicate that we are very good at the stoppages. Yet I agree with you that we were beaten badly in the latter part of the year. So I tend to think that it may not be so much of a personnel problem than one that our players fell off the pace as the year went on.

I would like to see ROK moved back to the foward line next year, more or less taking Jude's place there. Mitchell is a contested ball freak. We should continue to be a good stoppage team with Mitchell, Parker and Bird getting more on-ball time adding to JPK in the strong body inside midfielder category. This looks as good as any in the league. We need to better manage their workload next so we don't fade out toward the end. I would like to see all the mids get 2 or 3 games off in addition to the 2 scheduled breaks next year. We have a very deep midfield, and we should use it. So we can spread around 50 to 60 games amongst the likes of Biggs, Armstrong, BJ, Cunningham, Lamb, Towers and Lloyd and Perris.

As for a highly skilled HBF, we seem to have Mal and Macca, who did pretty well throughout the year. I think we lost control against the better sides because the outlet targets weren't getting open enough. Also I agree with you that we missed too many targets with poor kicking skills in the latter part of the season. But if you look at some of the mid season games, we were very sharp. Again, maybe this can be attributed to tiredness. I think we were looking to Tony A to provide that skillful ball user out of the back, but his failings are well documented. He has worked on his game in reserves after being dropped and did control reserves level games late in the season. Hopefully he can translate that to the seniors next year. Otherwise, we have Biggs, who looked ok, but not quite the control the game type. The one that I think has the qualities we need is Jake Lloyd. He reminds me so much of Macca. Just seems to be in the right spot, always finds time and space, runs all day and has great vision. He was the runaway winner of our reserves BOG count.

I agree with AG that our team looks very competitive and we don't need to make revolutionary changes, but rather evolutionary one. You can see with the drafting and team selection in the last few years that Horse likes quick players. When the likes of Rohan, Jetta, BJ, Cunningham and Towers start playing together we will transform into perhaps the speediest team in the league. Whether this works or not, only time will tell.

- - - Updated - - -


I will harp on about this until we get it somewhere near right in games where it counts. That is we get belted out of the middle. On paper we can have "the best" midfield and I don't care how much the media rattles on about it, but with the forward press in vogue, if you get done by the likes of Freo out of the guts they will hound you in their forward line until you concede a goal. Then it goes back to the centre and it happens again and again and again. That is what happened in the first half.

To me this is most glaring flaw in our game. Our mids might rack up the stats but get rolled in the centre clearance clinches. I don't care what the overall contested possession counts are; the facts are we don't win them at centre bounces. On Saturday it was 14 to 5 centre clearances at 3 quarter time. Somewhere along the line the AFL app missed about 5 centre clearances so it was probably worse. What we did win were rubbish possessions. Our players seemed to have snails reflexes compared to Freos. Sides know that this is a huge flaw in our makeup and work on it. The Hawks did the same. Sides seem to put quick players in the guts against us.

I agree wholeheartedly, and I am trying reconcile why we got smashed so badly at the stoppages late in the year yet dominated during middle part of the season. As you say, on paper we look great. I'm inclined to think that we really do have a good midfield, but simply faded out late in the season. Maybe this is just being hopeful. I suppose the issue will be settled next season, because not much is going to change with the midfield mix, except maybe ROK given less time and Parker and Mitchell more. We may also lose Mummy, so will probably fall down from our number 1 spot in hitouts. This would be a challenge for the midfield coaching staff, but something we should cope with. Both Hawthorn and Geelong are not very strong in the Ruck division, but still are 2 of the best offensive sides.

[DK_]

I agree wholeheartedly, and I am trying reconcile why we got smashed so badly at the stoppages late in the year yet dominated during middle part of the season. As you say, on paper we look great. I'm inclined to think that we really do have a good midfield, but simply faded out late in the season. Maybe this is just being hopeful. I suppose the issue will be settled next season, because not much is going to change with the midfield mix, except maybe ROK given less time and Parker and Mitchell more. We may also lose Mummy, so will probably fall down from our number 1 spot in hitouts. This would be a challenge for the midfield coaching staff, but something we should cope with. Both Hawthorn and Geelong are not very strong in the Ruck division, but still are 2 of the best offensive sides.

I wondered the same thing - up until as late as Richmond, our midfield were dominant, but never against a top four team. Is it a player-management issue or a structural issue? Or both? Weaknesses get magnified by tiredness in the midfield. Being a second or two later is the difference between a clean clearance and an aimless bomb.

I also wonder whether the constant stream of injuries forced us to change strategies and structures too many times, meaning we simply could not have been as well-drilled as the top teams.

Some potential changes to the midfield next year:

1. I've resigned myself to Mummy leaving. This could present an opportunity for structural changes.

2. ROK might move forward as he nears the back-end of his career.

3. Conversely, Goodes might get used as an on-baller like he was meant to this year before injury struck.

4. Jesse might get used more in the midfield. Probably on the wing in the role he's been playing, but relieving Joey in the middle. He seemed to have been groomed for a role like this late in the season. He's added an impressive ability to break tackles to his repertoire late in the season, which could provide the clean breaks we need with Jetta and Jack running off him.

5. With Rohan and Jetta in the team, our structures will be modified to take advantage of their speed. I suspect we'll find Rohan in a pocket providing an alternative lead to Tippett however.

6. With the advantage of a full pre-season and this year's experience, Mitchell might replace ROK in the midfield.

As an aside, I watched the season wash-up on AFL.com. I would not have expected a worse evaluation of our team and season if it had been done by NRL.com. Amongst the gems:

1. Walsh's inability to break into the team after injuries to Reid and Goodes will mean he gets cut (no mention that he was in the team up until he tore his hamstring off the bone - even the harshest critic couldn't have expected him to break his way into the team after that).

2. The Swans are in a rebuilding phase and probably won't do better than top 6 next year (despite the fact we've never dropped for a rebuild, we blooded a number of promising youngsters, we'll have up to 7 genuine stars returning to a team that made top 4 without them, competition for spots will be fierce next year and we were the team to beat before injury undermined our bid).

3. Ted and Grundy need help down back and the Swans will recruit to fill that gap. AJ anyone?

At least they admitted to the skills and improvement displayed by Rampe, Mitchell and Pyke.

[stellation]

As an aside, I watched the season wash-up on AFL.com. I would not have expected a worse evaluation of our team and season if it had been done by NRL.com. Amongst the gems:

1. Walsh's inability to break into the team after injuries to Reid and Goodes will mean he gets cut (no mention that he was in the team up until he tore his hamstring off the bone - even the harshest critic couldn't have expected him to break his way into the team after that).

Yep- the laziness of it is that to add to "he was actually getting a run in the seniors when he got a season ending injury" I'm pretty certain he still has a year to run on his contract as well!

[southsideswan]

Yep Walsh was going ok in 2nd with a couple of BOG .. first game in seniors (against Essendon) had season ending injury early in game (?). All that says he was going ok in 2nd and had season ending injury.

[rojo]

Good to read the very interesting and insightful posts on this thread. With so many clubs having Academy type set ups and also the AFL Academy pathways, we will/should be getting young players coming through with increasingly good skill foundations. You would think that any players now, who by the age of 25/26 still have poor disposal skills, are becoming a liability to their team. Look at the foot skills of the teams who finished above us. We should not bring into our club mature age players from other clubs who might fill a gap, but do not have the all round skills needed to help us be a top four team. A case in point is our Reg. He plays some great games and takes some great marks and is integral to our back line cohesion but his poor decision making with ball in hand and his sometimes awful disposal both by hand and foot really costs us at times. We cannot carry too many players like that when playing against the top teams.

I am looking forward to see if we are going to change things up next season and if so in what ways. I fear that if we keep on our currently predictable pathway we are going to get 'monstered' more and more. To balance that gloomy thought, I acknowledge that our returning 'stars' will make a huge difference. Just little things like the whole team going away in the preseason, not necessarily overseas, but like on a jungle camp or something would add a bit of variety and excitement and spice up the gruelling preseason training schedules.

[Dosser]

Now that it is out in the open, I was pretty disappointed last year by Rohan's lack of application in not forcing his way back into the seniors in the weeks following his broken leg.

[DK_]

Now that it is out in the open, I was pretty disappointed last year by Rohan's lack of application in not forcing his way back into the seniors in the weeks following his broken leg.

And what was with Alex Johnson's season? After showing so much promise in 2012, he didn't manage a single senior game in 2013. I expect him to request a trade so he can get more senior opportunities elsewhere.

[111431]

as an idea, wasn't Towers drafted as a fast and long kicking wingman ala Marty Mattner - is he a chance to be playmaker out of the back line ?

[mcs]

1. Walsh's inability to break into the team after injuries to Reid and Goodes will mean he gets cut (no mention that he was in the team up until he tore his hamstring off the bone - even the harshest critic couldn't have expected him to break his way into the team after that).

2. The Swans are in a rebuilding phase and probably won't do better than top 6 next year (despite the fact we've never dropped for a rebuild, we blooded a number of promising youngsters, we'll have up to 7 genuine stars returning to a team that made top 4 without them, competition for spots will be fierce next year and we were the team to beat before injury undermined our bid).

3. Ted and Grundy need help down back and the Swans will recruit to fill that gap. AJ anyone?

At least they admitted to the skills and improvement displayed by Rampe, Mitchell and Pyke.

For people whose sole job is to watch and report on the game, sloppy isn't the words required to describe that dribble.

With a much closer to fully fit list, a few tweaks to its edges and some revisions to our game play, we can win the flag next year. Talk of being in a rebuilding phase is absolute nonsense.

[DK_]

For people whose sole job is to watch and report on the game, sloppy isn't the words required to describe that dribble.

With a much closer to fully fit list, a few tweaks to its edges and some revisions to our game play, we can win the flag next year. Talk of being in a rebuilding phase is absolute nonsense.

Interestingly, the written wrap, further down the page, is a far more balanced and insightful piece which is at odds with the ramblings of Darcy and Barrett on a number of points.

Like you say, their full-time job is watching and reporting on this stuff, and I'm confident my 9yo son would have done a better job of it.

[Ludwig]

Also noted in the written wrap up that they called Naismith a teenager even though he's 21.

In fairness to the commentators, it's difficult to know what is happening at 18 clubs at the level of depth of the kind of supporters we find on RWO.

They would never note the subtle changes that take place over the season, like the much improved defensive work of Everitt. But on RWO it is often noted by many posters.

Not only did they miss that AJ will be coming back next year, but also LRT has recovered from his injury and if White stays on then Reid can move tothe backline. Nor would they know how well Xav, Brown and Lockyer have finished off the season in the ressies. All look reasonable possibilities for the future. In fact we are quite solid at the moment in defence, but agree that we need to be more definite in the succession plan for Ted, Reg and LRT. I think that will become clearer by the end of 2014.

The did have a lot of well deserved praise for Pyke. He really has been a revelation.

[top40]

I think we need to look a little more critically at this. Our midfield was basically at full strength all year and that is where we got beaten. Otherwise you have some good thoughts.

? Currently there are 39 players on the Senior List, factoring in the retirees-Mattner, Morton and Bolton
? The Club's could (?) have a list of 40 due to two veterans, Goodes and O?Keefe.
? The Swans have to draft at least 3 players from the National Draft.
? Sydney can only delist uncontracted players. Note that Tommy Walsh and Tony Armstrong are contracted.
? 4 players were promoted from the Rookie List this year- X.Richards, B.Jack, Biggs, Rampe.
? In my opinion, 1 player, Xavier Richards, could go back to the Rookie List. The others can stay on the Senior List. That leaves 38 players
? Delist Matthew Dick. That leaves 37 players, with room to draft the minimum 3 if you can have up to 40.
? Trade options- Mumford and Lamb, (both uncontracted). Personally I wouldn't be too troubled by trading Mumford. I would prefer not to trade Lamb.

[Matt80]

I don't think Matthew Dick can be delisted as he was drafted at the end of 2012, and all players taken in the NAB AFL draft get a minimum 2 year contract!

[Ludwig]

? Currently there are 39 players on the Senior List, factoring in the retirees-Mattner, Morton and Bolton
? The Club's could (?) have a list of 40 due to two veterans, Goodes and O?Keefe.
? The Swans have to draft at least 3 players from the National Draft.
? Sydney can only delist uncontracted players. Note that Tommy Walsh and Tony Armstrong are contracted.
? 4 players were promoted from the Rookie List this year- X.Richards, B.Jack, Biggs, Rampe.
? In my opinion, 1 player, Xavier Richards, could go back to the Rookie List. The others can stay on the Senior List. That leaves 38 players
? Delist Matthew Dick. That leaves 37 players, with room to draft the minimum 3 if you can have up to 40.
? Trade options- Mumford and Lamb, (both uncontracted). Personally I wouldn't be too troubled by trading Mumford. I would prefer not to trade Lamb.

I believe that the 4 promoted players go back to the rookie list after the season, so we really are starting at 35 on the senior list.

We only have to draft 2 new players as we can fill one spot with a promoted rookie, which will probably be Rampe. We can also use Lloyd Perris to fill one of the required picks, which could get us down to one live pick, although this scenario is not going to happen.

We probably can delist a contracted player, except that we would still be obliged to pay out their contract. I'm not sure how this effects the salary cap.

Tony Armstrong finished off the season in the reserves in good form. Was BOG in the Conference final with 41 possessions. He seems to have picked up on the defensive side of his game. He's and excellent kick, something we can certainly use. He is under contract and think he deserves another year before deciding his future.

Tommy Walsh seems the most likely to be dropped despite being on contract. It's been 3 months since his surgery, so we should have some idea as to whether he can overcome his injury, which is no small matter. I think he's on some pretty decent money, so if he's fit enough, we might give him another year. I also wondered if we could cut him and redraft him as an Irish rookie, thereby getting him outside the list size restrictions.

Mathew Dick is the youngest player on our list and only in the first year of a 2 year contract. He's got the size and speed of a Dane Rampe, but not the skill set. He looked lost early in the year, but finished off the season a much improved player. If he can clean up his kicking inconsistencies and improve his decision making, he has a lot to offer. He will only be a 19 yo next year, so there's every reason to believe he could do it.

[On-Baller]

Wonder if itll get to the stage with the calls of Reid to the backline as it did with Goodes back into the ruck causing Roosy to come out and say he will never play ruck again. Can see Sam maybe being a swingman in times of need but to me i think he will be a forward predominantly for his whole career.

Trading wise if we go for any mature age recruits the emphasis has to be on disposal efficiency.

[elastic]

Just a few thoughts. I felt that the advantage our midfield had in 2012 was our quick hands and ball movement around the packs. Other teams improved in this aspect and also worked to counter this thus nullifying our midfield strength. We need to come up with some new tricks in the midifeld for next season.

If Reid is played in the forward line next season then Jesse is surplus. Personally I'd be more comfortable, in losing Mumford and playing Reid in defence. Tippett to play as the backup ruck. I just didn't feel we had the right balance with the 2 ruckmen, Jesse and Tippett. Just seemed to lack mobility. The only problem with losing Mumford is that if Pyke got injured we would be very undermanned. I don't know enough about Naismith to comment on his progress.

[chalbilto]

It is imperative that the club retains Mumford. Give him a 4 year contact for he is only 27 and Pyke is 30 next year. In the intervening time hopefully Naismith will progress in his development.

[sharp9]

Rampe has signed a contract extension so he is on the senior list for at least the next two years...'cos there's no way he signed a contract to be a rookie is there?

[Blood Tunnel]

Mummy is a big lad & is injury prone.
It would be foolish to offer any more than 3 years. You can see that he can't play in his contested manner for a whole year, let alone 4.

I'm with the footy department to make the right call on Mummy. Refer to Bradshaw who was signed for 3 years & took up valuable dollars of our salary cap for the final two years of a 3 year contract.
Mummy is giving us a headache on two fronts.
Both in dollars & years. I reckon he has 50 games left in his body max! Then you need to ask yourself about the quality he can give us in these games.
Refer to the consecutive Hawk games where he polled 2 Brownlow votes in Rd 23 against them but the following week he only got 3 possessions!

Leave it to the experienced footy dept!