Trade Whispers / Rumours and Confirmations

[Matt79]

Silly season is upon us.

I now think Mummy will go unfortunately as he is still unsigned.

Would we / should we take Heath Shaw? Looks like he and the Pies have parted ways?

Will we keep White?

All rumours and facts in this thread...

[DK_]

Story just went up on AFL.com that Heath Shaw and Collingwood have agreed to look for a suitable trade. Given:

1. Rhyce's age and injury this year;
2. Our lack of speed off half-back in his absence;
3. The developing (though promising) nature, and therefore riskiness of Biggs;
4. The lack of depth options in that area; and
5. Jude talking him up as a potential Swans player;

I'd be surprised if we don't at least have a discussion with him. I'm sure the Swans are confident that they can sort out his attitude issues. He'd probably be keen with Rhyce's success in a city with nice weather and no Melbourne media.

Mumford is the obvious trade and already seems to have one foot out the door going by his statements. Others more versed in these matters might be able to comment on what else would be involved in the trade.

As an aside, I can't believe he got suspended for striking Ballantyne! Surely there must be a medal for that? If we do trade for him, there should be a bonus clause in his contract for this :)

My feeling is that Jesse will stay. Seems close to the players, is loving his footy, is loving the role he's been playing, seems to have gained Longmire's respect (and a fair few others) and has just engaged Jude Bolton as his manager. I couldn't see anyone engaging Jude to find a way out of the Swans!

[MadCanuck]

A player like H Shaw is exactly what we need assuming the price is not too great and he can absorb the bloods ethos.

[Matt80]

If we had enough money we could as an option get Heath Shaw and Darren Jolly for Shane Mumford and a late pick!

Would shore up the ruck division until Nasmith is ready!

[jono2707]

I'd entertain the thought of H Shaw if the price is right.

As for Jolly? No thanks.

[Industrial Fan]

Thomas would be a better target from collingwood.

Jolly can retire. Would be hilarious if he ended up at gws though. He's not welcome back here.

[Ludwig]

I didn't know Jesse engaged Jude as his manager. I am sure you are right DK about Jesse staying.

Mummy for Shaw seems a fair straight swap to me (but would prefer a 1st round pick). If White does stay on and plays CHF, then I think a Shaw trade would give us a back six of:

Johnson Richards Rampe
H. Shaw Reid Malceski

Getting a right foot kick for a small defender helps the balance a bit. It looks a very solid back six with plenty of run off the backline.

The questions would be:
1. What to do with Rhyce. Hard to see where he fits. Maybe he does retire. Would be funny if his brother forces him into retirement.
2. Does Smith move to the midfield, possibly becoming a midfield run with player. I think he is looking for a change anyway. I can see a role for him going head to head with players like Sidebottom and Delidio. Smith is not a bad attacking player when he doesn't have that lock down responsibility. In a bit of a domino effect, such a move would take up a slot for one of the younger emerging midfielders. Hard to see Jed getting a game.
3. What would this mean for the futures of Biggs and Armstrong? Doesn't look like much room for a small defender for the next 3 years.

The big negative for me is the knock-on effect that Shaw would have regarding opportunities for younger players. It would seem to force Lamb and probably either Armstrong or Biggs out of the side. Many would say Armstrong is no big loss, but he does bring some valuable skills and is young enough to fix up his weaknesses. He finished the season on a high note in the reserves.

- - - Updated - - -

Jolly has already been delisted, so he doesn't have to be part of a trade.

[Industrial Fan]

I think Armstrong has done his dash and should be traded or cut. Best case for him is more time in Canberra. For a player with his experience to be left out with the number of injuries we had was telling. Papers are stamped.

Watching Biggs ply his trade it seems strange Eski wasn't given a few weeks rest through the season. The prelim seemed a bit overwhelming for biggs but on the whole he looked like he belonged.

[Matt80]

If the Swans and Jolly wanted each other, could the Swans ask Collingwood to throw him into a deal with Heath Shaw for no extra cost! I.e Mumford for Jolly and Heath Shaw?

[On-Baller]

Really good pointy about resting Eski but i guess at that stage they didnt think Biggs was up for it, alot are talking about players being pushed out but with a full fit list i think you will see more and more list management and everyone will have their fair share of footy.

In coming years it will be more apparent that you need at least 30 fit players all playing their part through out the season, of course it will cause headaches come finals time if everyone is fit but to me that just adds more fuel to the argument that every player who has played seniors during a year should get a premiership medal if their team wins the flag. We have such depth in alot of areas that i really can see us taking this to a whole new level.

[Auntie.Gerald]

geee i keep swinging side to side on the idea of Heath joining the Swans

we do need speed off the HBF but could you honestly imagine Heath in the backline kicking out against freeo on the wknd ?

he has sub standard kicking but he can certainly match up well on smalls and med height attackers one on one

the irony is that his style of play is probably what we need in 2014 if we believe we have still an opportunity to peak for a GF series

[DK_]

Really good pointy about resting Eski but i guess at that stage they didnt think Biggs was up for it, alot are talking about players being pushed out but with a full fit list i think you will see more and more list management and everyone will have their fair share of footy.

In coming years it will be more apparent that you need at least 30 fit players all playing their part through out the season, of course it will cause headaches come finals time if everyone is fit but to me that just adds more fuel to the argument that every player who has played seniors during a year should get a premiership medal if their team wins the flag. We have such depth in alot of areas that i really can see us taking this to a whole new level.

Exactly what I was thinking. 'Best 22' is sooooo 2012...

[DK_]

If the Swans and Jolly wanted each other, could the Swans ask Collingwood to throw him into a deal with Heath Shaw for no extra cost! I.e Mumford for Jolly and Heath Shaw?

He's not on their list anymore. The Swans don't need to ask Collingwood to throw him in anymore than than the Swans would need to ask Collingwood to draft you or me.

Having said that, I don't think there's much chance of Jolly moving his family to Sydney for a rookie salary for one year. For anything more, he's not really worth it to us. I suspect he's after a Melbourne club or it'll be retirement.

On ruckmen, I think I remember some positive things said about our top-up ruck man in the Reserves while Naismith was injured. Could he be on our drafting target list? Ugg?

[Bloodthirsty]

I understand how difficult it is to fit Jed Lamb in the side as a permanent fixture, however if we let him go we will come to rue that decision.

[Matt80]

How come Collingwood were so quick to delist Jolly, Krakour and Didak without trying to do any business for them in trade week?

[DK_]

How come Collingwood were so quick to delist Jolly, Krakour and Didak without trying to do any business for them in trade week?

I wondered the same thing. Maybe a none-too-subtle message to the rest of the list?

[On-Baller]

How come Collingwood were so quick to delist Jolly, Krakour and Didak without trying to do any business for them in trade week?

Surely because they thougth there would be no interest in them , Jolly maybe going to Dees aside i dont think the other 2 will be looked at elsewhere. On top of that they possibly have 3 others that theyll want to be concentrating on in Shaw,Thomas and O'Brien. I think theyll lose Shaw and O'Brien which may free up enough cash for them to hold onto Thomas.

[Matt80]

I said in an earlier post that I thought Jolly would not go to Melbourne as they already had ruckman Max Gawn, Mark Jamar and Jake Spencer on their list. Add that they have forward targets Mitch Clark and Jack Fitzpatrik who can also ruck.

If Jolly is to be taken by Melbourne the Swans should have a look at Max Gawn or Mark Jamar!

[Ludwig]

I said in an earlier post that I thought Jolly would not go to Melbourne as they already had ruckman Max Gawn, Mark Jamar and Jake Spencer on their list. Add that they have forward targets Mitch Clark and Jack Fitzpatrik who can also ruck.

If Jolly is to be taken by Melbourne the Swans should have a look at Max Gawn or Mark Jamar!

If we trade Mummy it means that we only want to play the Pyke/Tippett ruck-forward combo instead of 3. So why would we pick up another 1st string ruckman, as they'll just be a backup playing in the reserves.

[BillyRayCypress]

He's not on their list anymore. The Swans don't need to ask Collingwood to throw him in anymore than than the Swans would need to ask Collingwood to draft you or me.


DK, ignore Matt80 and the Jolly suggestion. I think he's just stirring up trouble. :)

Mrs Jolly would never come back to Sydney anyway.

[Matt80]

If Mumford goes we need another ruckman to balance the list! If Pyke was to be injured you would be left with Tippett, White or Naismith to carry the ruck! If two of White, Tippett, Pyke or Naismith were injured you would be in serious trouble, probably be playing Fremantle next round.

If not Jolly, then another ruckman who costs less than Mumford and is happy to wait for his turn in the reserves!

Who else would you consider Billy apart from Jolly?

[Ludwig]

If Mumford goes we need another ruckman to balance the list! If Pyke was to be injured you would be left with Tippett, White or Naismith to carry the ruck! If two of White, Tippett, Pyke or Naismith were injured you would be in serious trouble, probably be playing Fremantle next round.

If not Jolly, then another ruckman who costs less than Mumford and is happy to wait for his turn in the reserves!

Who else would you consider Billy apart from Jolly?

How about Mark Seaby or Cameron Wood?

[BillyRayCypress]

I prefer your Demon suggestions.

If Collingwood can't find any value in him as a top up then I think that he is not worth pursuing.

His wife couldn't get out of Sydney fast enough the first time.

I'm sure the Swans won't let Mumford going if they didn't have a very good reason and more importantly an alternative option in place.

- - - Updated - - -

[Doctor J.]

I prefer your Demon suggestions.

If Collingwood can't find any value in him as a top up then I think that he is not worth pursuing.

His wife couldn't get out of Sydney fast enough the first time.

I'm sure the Swans won't let Mumford going if they didn't have a very good reason and more importantly an alternative option in place.

- - - Updated - - -
Exactly billy ray. All this talk of Mumford leaving amazes me.

IMO he's a keep at all costs player and the club should do everything it can to keep him.

We have no ruck coverage if Mumford goes. Tippet is a fwd and White isn't the answer. Pyke can't do it all on his own and his form dropped off later in the year when Mumford was injured
From what I can see Mumford wants to stay at Sydney so the club needs to accommodate his financial wishes provided they are not excessive

[Ludwig]

I prefer your Demon suggestions.

If Collingwood can't find any value in him as a top up then I think that he is not worth pursuing.

His wife couldn't get out of Sydney fast enough the first time.

I'm sure the Swans won't let Mumford going if they didn't have a very good reason and more importantly an alternative option in place.

- - - Updated - - -

I think he wants to leave the wife behind.

[ernie koala]

I think he wants to leave the wife behind.

Are we talking high maintenance??

[Meg]

Are we talking high maintenance??

Come on boys, no more smart comments on this, post-natal depression is a cruel illness for everyone concerned. It's not to be made fun of.

[aardvark]

Word is we offered Mummy 2years and he wants 4. Hutchy on fc tonight said Perris was offered a 2year rookie spot but has nominated for the draft instead.

[liz]

Word is we offered Mummy 2years and he wants 4. Hutchy on fc tonight said Perris was offered a 2year rookie spot but has nominated for the draft instead.

If true, I wonder if they'll add him onto the Combine list. He didn't get an invite originally, presumably because most clubs assumed he'd just be going to the Swans.

[aardvark]

Is Perris good enough to go straight onto a senior list? Would he get a senior game next year?

[liz]

Is Perris good enough to go straight onto a senior list? Would he get a senior game next year?

At a crap club like Melbourne, he almost certainly would get a game next year. At a club with a strongish midfield, maybe he would, maybe not. He's a little on the small side at the moment - not just height but build too. His height isn't going to change, and he's tall enough to be a senior player - I'd guess he's 178-179cm. But he would need to add a little bulk. He looks like he's got the frame to do so. He won't become huge but should be able to develop a similar physique to KJ given time.

The Swans have some challenging list management issues this year, but from an outsider's perspective, I'd put him on the senior list rather than risk losing him. The reality is that we had to draft at least three players onto the senior list. Only one elevated rookie can count towards this total, so that leaves two to be recruited externally as a minimum. Perris can count towards this quota.

He may be quite small but his onfield vision and creativity have been evident this year in the reserves. He's gotten better as the year has gone on, and remember that he missed last season with a knee reco. He's not particularly quick, but you could see him becoming a Sam Mitchell type midfield controller in time. I realise that's shooting quite high, and chances are he will never become that good. But it's the kind of role you could see him becoming.

[aardvark]

Thanks Liz. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Rod_]

The cost of Tippett is starting to hurt us! Who is going and what will be left or afford ?? (and Tippett cost how much...)

For goodness sakes all we needed was the 10 - 20 injuries that we had during the year and Jesse White decides he can play... Didn't need the 320+ pages of Tippett trade commentary and subsequent speculations.. I agree that he could be handy in 2014, however 2013 was at the end of it a waste chasing the big Tipp..

Jesse was by my reckoning a better player by the end of the year than Tippett and will most likely be flying all over the place looking for a new home.. (and decent $) Hope we have room to make him stay but doubt this will occur! Reid could be trade bait (start a rumour - joins his bro in Collingwoooood for the other Shaw bro! Frees up some $ and we keep White and ?? Crap rumour but its out there now! = comments please)

It is the off season and we do need something to keep our mind active.



Rod_

[Ludwig]

At a crap club like Melbourne, he almost certainly would get a game next year. At a club with a strongish midfield, maybe he would, maybe not. He's a little on the small side at the moment - not just height but build too. His height isn't going to change, and he's tall enough to be a senior player - I'd guess he's 178-179cm. But he would need to add a little bulk. He looks like he's got the frame to do so. He won't become huge but should be able to develop a similar physique to KJ given time.

The Swans have some challenging list management issues this year, but from an outsider's perspective, I'd put him on the senior list rather than risk losing him. The reality is that we had to draft at least three players onto the senior list. Only one elevated rookie can count towards this total, so that leaves two to be recruited externally as a minimum. Perris can count towards this quota.

He may be quite small but his onfield vision and creativity have been evident this year in the reserves. He's gotten better as the year has gone on, and remember that he missed last season with a knee reco. He's not particularly quick, but you could see him becoming a Sam Mitchell type midfield controller in time. I realise that's shooting quite high, and chances are he will never become that good. But it's the kind of role you could see him becoming.

I certainly agree that we have some challenging list management issues, and adding Perris to the senior list would seem a bargain. I think the bigger issue is that Perris just gets added to the queue of young promising midfielders with no place to go. With Jetta and Rohan coming back there really is no place for the likes of Lamb, Cunningham, BJ and Lloyd, and it looks that way for a fair time to come. I can see why we would prefer to put Perris on the rookie list when we have already have rookies BJ and Lloyd being more advanced at this stage and more likely to challenge for the scant senior spots available. And I can understand that Perris wouldn't want to wait around in hope that something opens up for him in a couple of years when, as you say, he may well get senior games with a team like Melbourne.

I wonder if we did senior list Perris if it effectively forces us trade out Lamb, simply to relieve the backlog of midfielders clambering for spots.

If I were a quality young midfielder, the last team I'd want to get drafted by is Sydney.

- - - Updated - - -


The cost of Tippett is starting to hurt us! Who is going and what will be left or afford ?? (and Tippett cost how much...)

For goodness sakes all we needed was the 10 - 20 injuries that we had during the year and Jesse White decides he can play... Didn't need the 320+ pages of Tippett trade commentary and subsequent speculations.. I agree that he could be handy in 2014, however 2013 was at the end of it a waste chasing the big Tipp..

Jesse was by my reckoning a better player by the end of the year than Tippett and will most likely be flying all over the place looking for a new home.. (and decent $) Hope we have room to make him stay but doubt this will occur! Reid could be trade bait (start a rumour - joins his bro in Collingwoooood for the other Shaw bro! Frees up some $ and we keep White and ?? Crap rumour but its out there now! = comments please)

It is the off season and we do need something to keep our mind active.

Rod_

Both Tippett and White had good seasons. Whether Tippett is worth the money we are paying him will always be debatable, but he does offer that strong marking target that we've been missing since Bazza left.

Mummy is the more likely one to move on and make room in the salary cap. I think White will be the one to stay.

I can't see why we would want to trade Reid, when we openly say that we need another young defender. Reid came to us as a defender and was only pressed into service as a forward because we had no one else. Granted that he is still young, but he never really has looked totally comfortable in the job. I think he should flourish as a key defender.

[On-Baller]

Tippett was leading goal kicker wasnt he for the second half of the season with more than all other forwards in comp, White played some good footy but youd swear he was bog 3 or 4 times the way people are pumping his tyres up, the short of it is White has been missing in action for a very long time i cant see the coaches changing their thoughts on him after a handful of ok games. Suggestions of trading Reid are strange didnt we give him a 5 year contract....our coaches have made good calls on players for many years dont see why theyd be wrong on Sam, suggestions of trading him are akin to saying we should trade Tom Mitchell.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Jesse was better than Tippett? The guy who, based on averages, would have challenged for the Coleman had he played a full season?

I wonder sometimes. I really do.

[Auntie.Gerald]

At a crap club like Melbourne, he almost certainly would get a game next year. At a club with a strongish midfield, maybe he would, maybe not. He's a little on the small side at the moment - not just height but build too. His height isn't going to change, and he's tall enough to be a senior player - I'd guess he's 178-179cm. But he would need to add a little bulk. He looks like he's got the frame to do so. He won't become huge but should be able to develop a similar physique to KJ given time.

The Swans have some challenging list management issues this year, but from an outsider's perspective, I'd put him on the senior list rather than risk losing him. The reality is that we had to draft at least three players onto the senior list. Only one elevated rookie can count towards this total, so that leaves two to be recruited externally as a minimum. Perris can count towards this quota.

He may be quite small but his onfield vision and creativity have been evident this year in the reserves. He's gotten better as the year has gone on, and remember that he missed last season with a knee reco. He's not particularly quick, but you could see him becoming a Sam Mitchell type midfield controller in time. I realise that's shooting quite high, and chances are he will never become that good. But it's the kind of role you could see him becoming.

Liz I felt that Lloyd and Perris were a bit of a double up ?

I am almost leaning towards Lloyd

[jono2707]

I think Perris is not really the sort of player we need at the moment, or for the next few years. I doubt that he is as good as Tom Mitchell, and as others have said we have Jack junior, Jed, Lloyd and others in the queue as well. We have other more pressing needs in developing our list so if Perris wants to get on a senior list, I think we should let him go if we are not willing to do anything further than offer him a rookie spot.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Jake Lloyd
Height 180 cm
DOB 20-09-1993
Weight 75 kg Debut -

Taken from the North Ballarat Rebels, running midfielder Jake Lloyd was the Swans first selection in the 2012 Rookie Draft.

Lloyd played two games at VFL level with the North Ballarat Roosters in 2012 and was also the recipient of the TAC Cup Coaches Award after an impressive season with the Rebels, which saw him average 28 possessions.

The 19-year-old, who hails from Horsham in Central Victoria, is expected to bolster the club?s running capacity, after registering an impressive 15.3 in the beep test in 2012.

Draft history: 2013 Rookie Draft selection (Sydney) No. 15.

2013 COACHES CALL
We drafted him because he?s a smart, compact, neat midfielder.

Pre-season has been pretty good. He was the last one to arrive but he?s coped pretty well. He?s been very good on and off in the field in terms of trying to improve his knowledge.

We hope in 2013 that he can develop and play consistent football.

[Matt80]

It could be fun to watch the draft this year! Melbourne may take Lloyd Perris with pick 2, behind Ton Bouyd. If Melbourne don't take him with pick 2 the Swans may get him late in the first round!

I would love to be Lloyd Perris right now!

If Melbourne do take him with pick 2 then he would have a lot to live up to!

[magic.merkin]

Jesse was better than Tippett? The guy who, based on averages, would have challenged for the Coleman had he played a full season?

I wonder sometimes. I really do.

yep, serious grip on reality slipping in 3,2,1...

Jesse was good, great some games. But not as damaging as Tippett.

[ugg]

There's no way Perris is going with pick 2.

[Industrial Fan]

Worried that Lamb may not be with us next year either. Which would be a shame. Could be Vez 2.0 but I think he'll be one that will hurt down the track.

[liz]

There's no way Perris is going with pick 2.

And equally, no way the Swans would use their first round pick on him. If they were prepared to do that, they'd just stick him on the senior list with their last pick.

[southsideswan]

I would like to give my take on it although coming from a low knowledge level. The facts as I see it that we basically have a great team and alot of potential long term high quality players not regularly in the starting 22. We did finish 4th on the ladder and made prelims. This would have/could have been better with less injuries. To stay still is to go backwards. We do get refreshment with retirees. Of the players mentioned as trading I would ask do they want to go and do we want them to go. No good throwing the baby out with the bath water. I would be happy to see only minimal cuts and have our basic focus being doing what we did this year, ie continue the develop of the gems we have.

The tricky part comes with the balance for seniors and rookies. Take both Perris and Lloyd, they would ideally be suited to the rookie list but they will have offers from other clubs to go on their senior list. We may convince Perris to stick it out for a year but Lloyd will be tempted. I get the feeling his manager is pretty busy at the moment. We may look back on it and say how did that one get away? Although the 2's are not the real stuff his figures have been unbelievable.

This is the art of trade period. Good luck to our Club in getting it right close to it. It is a whole new game/competition in itself!!

[BillyRayCypress]

Gerard asked Mike last night about Mumford.

Mike said that he wanted a long contract and lots of money. Mike thought that the Swans could not afford to let him go.

I've met Jake LLoyd and he is a young country boy who is very well mannered and would be perfect son-in-law material.

- - - Updated - - -

Gerard asked Mike last night about Mumford.

Mike said that he wanted a long contract and lots of money. Mike thought that the Swans could not afford to let him go.

I've met Jake LLoyd and he is a young country boy who is very well mannered and would be perfect son-in-law material.

[aardvark]

White in Melbourne yesterday, spoke with Collingwood and the Bulldogs.

[Bloodthirsty]

White in Melbourne yesterday, spoke with Collingwood and the Bulldogs.

Anyone else think that we're @@@@@@ if both Mumford and White leave? I do.

[aardvark]

Anyone else think that we're @@@@@@ if both Mumford and White leave? I do.

I reckon Mummy will stay. Word is the sticking point is length of the contract.

[desredandwhite]

White in Melbourne yesterday, spoke with Collingwood and the Bulldogs.

I suspect it will come down to the Mumford deal. If we retain him, expect Jesse to be traded (at least for decent compensation now that he's shown a bit). If Mummy goes, then Jesse might find himself in possession of a shiny new contract.

[aardvark]

If Mummy goes, then Jesse might find himself in possession of a shiny new contract.

There's a fair chance he may not want to stay either way. I'd be happy to trade him for Shaw.

[Matimbo]

yep, serious grip on reality slipping in 3,2,1...

Jesse was good, great some games. But not as damaging as Tippett.

Agree. I'm really surprised at the amount of negativity about KT, especially that he's not worth the money. A year ago, this forum was awash with posts about our lack of a forward line structure, that Sam Reid was really struggling playing on the opposition's #1 defender each week and that Jesse would never be an established seniors player.

KT comes on board for zero trade pick cost but at a premium salary as the solution. But the planned solution - KT and Sam in the fwd line - has not been tested yet, (except for about 10 mins). Despite that KT was the leading goal kicker (I think, or very close) in the AFL for the period he played.

On this basis, why is he labelled a failure or not worth the money after only half a season? I for one am still comfortable we made the right recruitment decision - high salary and all - based on our situation at the time. And I also have confidence that a full season next year with a settled fwd line will prove it was a good call.

Maybe I'll still be wrong, but let's give our investment the appropriate time to deliver a return before we call it a failure please.

[111431]

I suspect it will come down to the Mumford deal. If we retain him, expect Jesse to be traded (at least for decent compensation now that he's shown a bit). If Mummy goes, then Jesse might find himself in possession of a shiny new contract.

Dons to Dogs: Crameri wants trade - i thnk that helps us with Jesse

[sharp9]

What's this bat Perris???. I thought we could put him on the senior list if we wanted....not just the rookie. Surely we are planning on doing that and not letting him go somewhere else.

[SimonH]

Yeah, I think that the Swans hierarchy ain't stupid, so they know that the Mumford situation and the White situation are strongly interdependent. Put simply: we don't need to have both, but nor can we afford to lose both right now.

That said, 'out of sight, out of mind' means that people can tend to underrate how tall our forward-line will naturally skew once everyone's back on board in 2014. Reid, KT, Goodes all up there before we even start to think about a resting ruck or Jesse. That's big.

It is a tricky time for 'traditional' 2nd rucks right now, because the majority of teams will not play 2 like the Swans have been willing to do with Mumford and Pyke. Clubs need a ready-to-play 2nd ruck; they can't rely on a first or second year draftee to fill the void if their main man goes down (Brodie Grundy has been the exception to the rule). But unless that 2nd ruck can also play as a legitimate forward, they won't pick them while the 1st ruck remains fit. There's a lot of underemployed mature rucks cooling their heels in state league comps right now. Hence Dan Currie, who was picked up in the 2006 national draft, and who everyone agrees is AFL standard (he even just signed with North Melbourne until the end of 2015 after other clubs were reportedly circling, looking to snaffle him up), is still awaiting his AFL debut!

[vlg303]

On ruckmen, I think I remember some positive things said about our top-up ruck man in the Reserves while Naismith was injured. Could he be on our drafting target list? Ugg?

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forums but an old supporter of the red n whites! I saw the top up ruckman play a couple of his games with the Reserves and from what I can see he looks the goods. Good build for a young ruckman, and quite mobile. Plus I think he may have polled a vote against Longer and the Lions? Do we have room for another rookie ruckman? Surely developing he and Naismith who are both early twenties would overcome the Mummy/Pyke issue within a few years?

[stellation]

White in Melbourne yesterday, spoke with Collingwood and the Bulldogs.
Presumably with his manager in tow?

[DK_]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forums but an old supporter of the red n whites! I saw the top up ruckman play a couple of his games with the Reserves and from what I can see he looks the goods. Good build for a young ruckman, and quite mobile. Plus I think he may have polled a vote against Longer and the Lions? Do we have room for another rookie ruckman? Surely developing he and Naismith who are both early twenties would overcome the Mummy/Pyke issue within a few years?

Welcome! Thanks for the info. I would think you'd want at least two junior ruckmen in development - otherwise you're too susceptible to a serious injury.

[Matt79]

(Rumour) According to AFL Trade Rumours, Draft & Offseason News on FB, Mumford is close to signing a deal with GWS.

[Matt80]

White has to test out his options due to being off contract! He was used as trade bait last year to the Crows! I would rather the Swans work out a way for him to stay over Shane Mumford!

A 196cm, over 100 kg key forward who is as quick and as mobile as White is an absolute rarity! If if he was a yank he would have been drafted in NFL, which is the most athletically demanding football league in the World. He has finally got his work ethic and mental application together and will give the Swans some great seasons if he remains!

[BillyRayCypress]

I don't think you can give a great deal of credibility to AFL trade rumours.

- - - Updated - - -


(Rumour) According to AFL Trade Rumours, Draft & Offseason News on FB, Mumford is close to signing a deal with GWS.

And in the hope of improving Swans GWS relationships they will give us Pick 1 ????

I don't think you can give much credibility to AFL trade rumours.

Is anyone else getting confused between Matt79 and Matt80 ???? Have they been seen in the same room together? :)

[vlg303]

Welcome! Thanks for the info. I would think you'd want at least two junior ruckmen in development - otherwise you're too susceptible to a serious injury.

Exactly. I think a good ruckman is hard to replace like-for-like. Trading for ruckmen is potentially very expensive when compared to developing younger rucks.

May as well develop two NSW boys with great potential.

[DK_]

(Rumour) According to AFL Trade Rumours, Draft & Offseason News on FB, Mumford is close to signing a deal with GWS.

Wouldn't the Swans need to agree to a trade first? And can that happen before trade week?

[Matt79]

I don't think you can give a great deal of credibility to AFL trade rumours.

- - - Updated - - -



And in the hope of improving Swans GWS relationships they will give us Pick 1 ????

I don't think you can give much credibility to AFL trade rumours.

Is anyone else getting confused between Matt79 and Matt80 ???? Have they been seen in the same room together? :)

Haha, certainly not related in any way!! :)

[Matt80]

I'm 33 and I assume Matt79 is 34?

[BillyRayCypress]

I'm 33 and I assume Matt79 is 34?

Well that's a relief. I thought it might have been a couple of old fella's let loose on their pc's. :)

[MightyBloods]

Exactly. I think a good ruckman is hard to replace like-for-like. Trading for ruckmen is potentially very expensive when compared to developing younger rucks.

May as well develop two NSW boys with great potential.

I'd argue the opposite. Clubs spend heaps on drafting and developing their players. History says that drafting a young ruckman is one of the more risky strategies. I'm a believer in drafting midfielders then KPP's before a ruckman. I'm more inclined to trade for a developed ruckman (ie Jolly, Mumford) and draft a young ruckman late for depth. You are closer to knowing what you get with a more developed ruckman. Misses in the draft can cost clubs dearly both financially and playing success.

- - - Updated - - -


Wouldn't the Swans need to agree to a trade first? And can that happen before trade week?

GWS could get Mummy for nothing in the pre-season draft.

[Ludwig]

I'm 33 and I assume Matt79 is 34?

Matt79 is probably the future you in a parallel universe; a universe where the Swans win the 2013 Grand Final.

[DK_]

GWS could get Mummy for nothing in the pre-season draft.

I thought clubs tended to trade rather than take this path - a sort of gentlemen's agreement to avoid being screwed over in the same way at other times (though of course, the option is still open if a club refuses to negotiate). Interested to hear if history backs this up.

Regardless, whether he's going via trade week or the preseason draft, Mummy could not possibly be about to sign a contract with GWS.

[Matt80]

We talk about our potent tall forward line, but GWS next season will have the most potent tall forward line in the AFL.

Their tall forward line could be Cameron, Patton, Boyd (draft pick one), Franklin (free agent), Mumford (resting ruckman with Griffin! That is scary!

The Swans would need both Sam Reid and Jesse White playing in the back line with Grundy, Richards and LRT just to cope!

[Swansinger]

I have faith that the club will make careful , considered , correct decisions.

I will throw in another C-word . If he's fit and if he really has a burning desire to play on , should we take a punt on my 2nd- favourite opposition player of all time , Paul Chapman ?

No idea if he's being considered by us , but there will surely be several clubs - and not just the cellar dwellers - pondering an offer of a one-year deal.

[liz]

I have faith that the club will make careful , considered , correct decisions.

I will throw in another C-word . If he's fit and if he really has a burning desire to play on , should we take a punt on my 2nd- favourite opposition player of all time , Paul Chapman ?

No idea if he's being considered by us , but there will surely be several clubs - and not just the cellar dwellers - pondering an offer of a one-year deal.

Didak too?

My guess is that recruiting either of these players would turn out in a similar fashion to the recruitments of Tingay and Bradshaw.

[goswannies]

Didak too?

My guess is that recruiting either of these players would turn out in a similar fashion to the recruitments of Tingay and Bradshaw.

Daffy. Scott Russell. Dermie the list goes on ....

- - - Updated - - -


We talk about our potent tall forward line, but GWS next season will have the most potent tall forward line in the AFL.

Their tall forward line could be Cameron, Patton, Boyd (draft pick one), Franklin (free agent), Mumford (resting ruckman with Griffin! That is scary!

The Swans would need both Sam Reid and Jesse White playing in the back line with Grundy, Richards and LRT just to cope!

Rediculous! Just engrave GW$ on the cup for the next few years. Thanks Demetriou. Way to make a balanced competition.

[vlg303]

I'd argue the opposite. Clubs spend heaps on drafting and developing their players. History says that drafting a young ruckman is one of the more risky strategies. I'm a believer in drafting midfielders then KPP's before a ruckman. I'm more inclined to trade for a developed ruckman (ie Jolly, Mumford) and draft a young ruckman late for depth. You are closer to knowing what you get with a more developed ruckman. Misses in the draft can cost clubs dearly both financially and playing success.

I agree that it is not wise to draft big bodied positions as teenagers for the reasons you said i.e. risk of injury. However, it is financially unsustainable to continue to trade for these positions. So I believe the investment in Naismith is well received, and signing an early twenty yr old as a rookie to complement Naismith would set the Swans up without being financially and tactically cumbersome on the club.

Do we know any more about the US international signing Patrick Mitchell and what position he is set to be developed as?

[Swansinger]

Naah , not Didak - too bogan ! Mind you , we have had some terrific trades dealing with the Pies .Tingay recruitment was silly. Bradshaw ? Worth it for that R6 game and that goal v Lions alone:smile: !

Yeah , you could be right . Like I say , a club would need to be convinced of Chappie's fitness. The Swans cannot afford to look silly - and Chappie does not deserve an ignominious end.

[Ludwig]

If anything, the Swans need to look to bring more youth into the team, not older players, as we will be facing a slew of retirements over the next couple of years, and really don't need more 'established' players.

Even if both Mummy and White find greener pastures, as long as we are fairly compensated, I think it will be okay. As we found this year, when some stars go down, others start to shine.

I have a lot of confidence that the players we already have on our list can step up and perform well. We already have 3 untried players, Membrey, Towers and Lloyd, that look every chance to be quality senior players. This to add to the ones that have played respectable bit parts during this past season, Biggs, Cunningham and BJ. Even losing both Mummy and White, none of these mentioned are obvious best 22 choices if we have a fully fit list.

Here's my top 24, excluding all 8 players mentioned above. It's not far off our premiership team, with Rampe, Everitt, Mitchell, Rohan, McGlynn and Tippett the new faces. I don't know about you, but looks good to me. Bring on 2014!

FB Johnson T.Richards Rampe
HB Malceski Grundy Smith
CTR McVeigh K.Jack Hannebery
CTR2 Bird Jetta Everitt
Rk Kennedy Pyke Mitchell
HF ROK Goodes Parker
FF Rohan Tippett McGlynn
EMG Shaw Lamb LRT

[Matt79]

I'm 33 and I assume Matt79 is 34?

Yes indeed :)

[Auntie.Gerald]

if we think we can peak and win a GF next year then a chapman is the type of player in your 22 in the finals series that would be great

Morton case in point in 2012 finals series

BUT i would prefer to hedge our bets on youth and have Jetta, Rohan, BJ, Towers and others become our x factor.......even lambie in a forward role that chapo is gifted is very exciting

- - - Updated - - -

shaw will still be in the backline if fully fit methinks !

:idea:

[Melbournehammer]

I have faith that the club will make careful , considered , correct decisions.

I will throw in another C-word . If he's fit and if he really has a burning desire to play on , should we take a punt on my 2nd- favourite opposition player of all time , Paul Chapman ?

No idea if he's being considered by us , but there will surely be several clubs - and not just the cellar dwellers - pondering an offer of a one-year deal.

I'm up for it if for no other reason than it reduces the number of goals we have to score against Geelong by two - has he ever played a bad game against us ?

[Triple B]

.....should we take a punt on my 2nd- favourite opposition player of all time , Paul Chapman ?

Wow, 2nd favourite player. I can't @@@@ing stand him. So there u go...

I'm okay with the idea though, he'd improve us for a season...

[aardvark]

FB Johnson T.Richards Rampe
HB Malceski Grundy Smith
CTR McVeigh K.Jack Hannebery
CTR2 Bird Jetta Everitt
Rk Kennedy Pyke Mitchell
HF ROK Goodes Parker
FF Rohan Tippett McGlynn
EMG Shaw Lamb LRT

No Sam Reid?

[RogueSwan]

Wow, 2nd favourite player. I can't @@@@ing stand him. ....

+1
The only Cats I have liked recently are Ling and Hurley, oh, and Mummy

- - - Updated - - -


No Sam Reid?

Traded to Pies for Heath Shaw?

[Ludwig]

No Sam Reid?

Right!! I forgot. :redface:

Now it's even better than I thought. We'll definitely go undefeated next year.

We'll have to trade away a few more players just to make the competition fairer.

[barry]

Mummy to gws for one of there young guns woukd be good. Heath shaw for 1st or 2nd round pick would be ok too.


I think wed need to draft in a bit of ruck insurance though. Some 2nd tier backup.

[Rob-bloods]

A first round pick for a 28 yr old with ADHD is NOT a great deal. With LRT I suppose back we cannot fit all of Tippett White Mummy Pyke Reid in the team. Mummy looks gone so perhaps we will go Pyke and part time ruckmen until Naismith grows up? Lamb may well be gone not sure of his contract situation, he'll have some currency. At one stage it appeared we were interested in Norths Delaney that seems to have died down. Interesting to see the delistings must be due soon.

[grizz]

Can someone please explain why Mumford looks to be leaving the club? Swans don't need/want him or he wants to leave for some reason? it's baffling me.

[stellation]

Can someone please explain why Mumford looks to be leaving the club? Swans don't need/want him or he wants to leave for some reason? it's baffling me.
It's just the number of years from what I can gather; he wants 4, Swans don't appear to be budging on 2. If he ends up at GWS presumably they can also offer some significant dollars over, too.

Shane's in a strange situation, we made him a very generous offer (at the time) and he came here on circa $300k p.a. for 3 years- but through that first year he pretty quickly significantly increased his value. Even with injuries he's been one of the premier ruckmen of the competition over those years, and even though we handed him a great opportunity and pay increase he may very well feel that in the end he's been short changed a little based on his performance and want to make sure he gets the most he can out of his next contract.

[Matt80]

Here is a concept to throw into the Mumford situation! Mid season he was sanctioned and given a punishment by the club for an indiscretion! The nature of the indiscretion was not revealed to the media!

Could it be that Mumford's behaviour is pushing the boundary of the Swans cultural set up?

[BillyRayCypress]

I think that required players will always be given extra chances over average players.

Probably entered another sausage eating competition.

[Jewels]

Here is a concept to throw into the Mumford situation! Mid season he was sanctioned and given a punishment by the club for an indiscretion! The nature of the indiscretion was not revealed to the media!

Could it be that Mumford's behaviour is pushing the boundary of the Swans cultural set up?

No i highly doubt that has anything to do with it, that was simply a case of Mummy going out and having too much to drink and got a bit too rowdy and apparently that is definately all there was to it.
It is my understanding that it is stricktly the length of his contract that is the sticking point, seems to me the club doesn't seem to have the faith in his body to hold up for four more years.

[Untamed Snark]

I think that required players will always be given extra chances over average players.

Probably entered another sausage eating competition.

Wasn't it during the odd facial hair period? Maybe the Swans are anti-hipster-explains Armstrong being overlooked too.

[aardvark]

Latest word is Mummy to stay and White to Collingwood according to Mike!

[CJK]

Maybe the Swans are anti-hipster-explains Armstrong being overlooked too.

Whilst this would be great, have you seen Jetta's and Mal's beards?

[stellation]

Whilst this would be great, have you seen Jetta's and Mal's beards?

My first thoughts, too. Jude may go into the media and player management, but it's pretty clear Mal will go into coffee roasting or craft beer brewing.

- - - Updated - - -


Latest word is Mummy to stay and White to Collingwood according to Mike!
I wouldn't be surprised if we have to wait until after the Grand Final to get a real idea, Freo would love a big forward (and Ross has acknowledged interest in Jesse) and I suspect on the Hawks side if Buddy moves there'll be a domino effect as well.

Unless Collingwood table a large offer you'd expect Jesse would want to talk to all potential suitors.

[MadCanuck]

Maybe a straight swap - White for H Shaw.

[Matt80]

I hope they don't swap H. Shaw for White although the pre season draft may worry the Swans!

Jesse is a vital price of the puzzle, with Goodes retiring in the next 5 years and some people saying that Reid is to be moved to the back line!

I would hate a forward line of Ben Reid, Jesse White and Travis Cloke coming at us!

[Bloodthirsty]

I hope they don't swap H. Shaw for White although the pre season draft may worry the Swans!

Jesse is a vital price of the puzzle, with Goodes retiring in the next 5 years and some people saying that Reid is to be moved to the back line!

I would hate a forward line of Ben Reid, Jesse White and Travis Cloke coming at us!

I guess Tippett, Reid and Goodes will have to suffice for now!

[DK_]

Wasn't it during the odd facial hair period? Maybe the Swans are anti-hipster-explains Armstrong being overlooked too.

How do you explain Jetta's leopard skin pants and faux glasses?

[Plugger46]

Ignoring the Shaw baggage, on pure on-field output we'd be well in front if a straight swap were to occur. That's not to say Jesse can't continue to improve but I really doubt that Collingwood would settle for that.

[Ludwig]

There are also rumours going around that Sam Reid is going to Collingwood as well. Some have all 3, White, Mummy and Reid leaving. Sounds pretty crazy, but it is that time of the year.

I wonder if offering Mummy a shorter contract is a subtle way of pushing him out while appearing to negotiate in good faith. Perhaps we will cave in and give him what he wants if we can't find suitable compensation for him.

Here's one for you: White goes to Collingwood in a straight swap for Heath Shaw who is packaged with Mummy and traded to GWS in exchange for pick 9 and a KPD (perhaps Jaksch or Bruce). So effectively we lose White AND Mummy for pick 9 and a young defender. I really want Jesse to stay, but I would take that deal. Only problem is Jesse is likely to win the Coleman and lead the Pies to a premiership.:tongue:

[Bloodthirsty]

There are also rumours going around that Sam Reid is going to Collingwood as well. Some have all 3, White, Mummy and Reid leaving. Sounds pretty crazy, but it is that time of the year.

I wonder if offering Mummy a shorter contract is a subtle way of pushing him out while appearing to negotiate in good faith. Perhaps we will cave in and give him what he wants if we can't find suitable compensation for him.

Here's one for you: White goes to Collingwood in a straight swap for Heath Shaw who is packaged with Mummy and traded to GWS in exchange for pick 9 and a KPD (perhaps Jaksch or Bruce). So effectively we lose White AND Mummy for pick 9 and a young defender. I really want Jesse to stay, but I would take that deal. Only problem is Jesse is likely to win the Coleman and lead the Pies to a premiership.:tongue:

That's one way to solve our top-heavy issue I guess - get rid of 3 of our best 22.

[Mug Punter]

White goes to Collingwood in a straight swap for Heath Shaw.:tongue:

I'd take that trade in an instant. Would not trade Mummy at all if possible but if would take that overall trade.

[DK_]

No reason to place any real stock in it, but this was in Football Nation:

"Sydney is likely to off-load one of its tall forwards Jesse White or Sam Reid; the latter appears more likely to go given White?s impressive season at the Swans and Reid?s injury concerns."

I didn't think Sam was even being considered for a move. That would seem a significant turnaround, particularly with his ability to move back. Surely this must be uneducated Melbourne media?

[annew]

No reason to place any real stock in it, but this was in Football Nation:

"Sydney is likely to off-load one of its tall forwards Jesse White or Sam Reid; the latter appears more likely to go given White?s impressive season at the Swans and Reid?s injury concerns."

I didn't think Sam was even being considered for a move. That would seem a significant turnaround, particularly with his ability to move back. Surely this must be uneducated Melbourne media?

Lets hope so, lose either or both of mummy and Reid would be disastrous

[Melbournehammer]

its so exciting when you might land someone and so depressing/scary when you might lose someone.

[Nico]

The Reid to Collingwood one was on last year. Just hopeful Pies supporters thinking that he will join his brothers. He is on a 5 year contract for a simple reason: the club thinks he is pretty bloody special.

[DK_]

Cats have just announced their delistings. I'd assume ours (if any) won't be far behind.

[Ludwig]

19 yo Irish player Daniel Flynn is going to participate in the AFL Combine next week.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-26/clubs-look-to-test-international-waters

Kennelly has a strong connection with him, even having coached him vs the AIS squad. You would think the he must have gotten Tadgh's advice to try his luck in the AFL. Given this connection and that we already have Tommy Walsh at the club, you would think that we would have an inside edge on this one.

[Panttz]

Sounds like there might be some potential there!

[Matt80]

Sounds like from this thread that people believe Mumford, Reid and White are on the trade table.

I would keep White above Reid and Mumford. Out of all our tall players White is the most physically durable and can cope with long AFL seasons!

Reid can't sprint without doing a soft tissue injury, which is concerning for a 22 year old and Mumfords four years at the Swans have included some time on the side lines.

Jesse finished the season looking the sharpest and most energetic Swans player and will give you the same next year through 20 plus games! I can't feel as confident of that with Reid and Mumford!

[Ludwig]

Sounds like from this thread that people believe Mumford, Reid and White are on the trade table.

I would keep White above Reid and Mumford. Out of all our tall players White is the most physically durable and can cope with long AFL seasons!

Reid can't sprint without doing a soft tissue injury, which is concerning for a 22 year old and Mumfords four years at the Swans have included some time on the side lines.

Jesse finished the season looking the sharpest and most energetic Swans player and will give you the same next year through 20 plus games! I can't feel as confident of that with Reid and Mumford!

I am shocked by this!!

And the reason is that I agree with all you have said. But we should be prepared for an onslaught of criticism.

So it goes! (Kurt Vonnegut)

[Dosser]

I just hope we aren't being seduced by White's form just prior to contact negotiations. He did the same thing last time and then settled into a routine of mediocrity. Go back 3 years and we were dating the same thing about him. I really hope his time is now though.

[The Big Cat]

Sounds like from this thread that people believe Mumford, Reid and White are on the trade table.

Reid is contracted for at least 3 more years. He is regarded as absolutely crucial to the Swans structure. Longmire has said so repeatedly and they were desperate to get him back prior to the finals.

His brother Ben Reid signed a two year deal at the end of last year which coincidentally takes him through to free agency when his contract expires next year. His mother made the comment a couple of years ago about how happy she was with the Swan's treatment of Sam and was less than complimentary about the Pies. I think you'll find that both Reid brothers will be in Sydney next year and with Goodes and O'Keefe likely then to call it a day we will have money galore to throw at Ben.

What's all this talk about Lamb wanting to go? There has not been a hint of unhappiness from Jed. Longmire went out of his way to mention him in his post PF presser, and I think Lamb knows that with Jude gone he will be in the frame for a full-time call up.

[Primmy]

OK so the granny is 2 days away, the CC dinner is a week after that, they won't announce changes and delisting and trades until after that. So settle people, we have a way to go before we actually find out the facts of the matter (s).

[aardvark]

OK so the granny is 2 days away, the CC dinner is a week after that, they won't announce changes and delisting and trades until after that. So settle people, we have a way to go before we actually find out the facts of the matter (s).

Primmy Trade weeks start Monday 7th October, free agency starts 4th October. I reckon we'll have the delistings before then.
The whole trade period finishes on 25th Oct.

[Dosser]

It's official. Channel 7 news just announced Jesse White has requested a trade and Collingwood are in discussions.

[swannymum]

Channel 7 just announced Jesse wants to go to Collingwood!

[Cardinal]

And Shaw is the likely candidate to come to Swans. The running game will be back baby, no passengers in this team Jesse!

[Jewels]

Sounds like from this thread that people believe Mumford, Reid and White are on the trade table.

I would keep White above Reid and Mumford. Out of all our tall players White is the most physically durable and can cope with long AFL seasons!

Reid can't sprint without doing a soft tissue injury, which is concerning for a 22 year old and Mumfords four years at the Swans have included some time on the side lines.

Jesse finished the season looking the sharpest and most energetic Swans player and will give you the same next year through 20 plus games! I can't feel as confident of that with Reid and Mumford!

Reid has one bad season with injuries and you've got him on the scrap heap and Jesse is the messiah and must be favourite for the Brownlow, Coleman, Norm Smith, MVP and cannonisation on the strength of half a good season.
Yer, right.

[Plugger46]

White over Reid and Mumford. I've heard it all now.

[Cardinal]

Wonder if we'll swap our pick 1 and White for Shaw and Pies pick 2 ?

[Melbourne_Blood]

I think a straight swap is fair. White is a big man, they need a big man. To swap our 1st pick for their 2nd pick would be overs.

[Ludwig]

Wonder if we'll swap our pick 1 and White for Shaw and Pies pick 2 ?

If White goes, then we will need our pick 1 for Darcy Gardiner, as Reid is likely to stay in the forward line. Personally, I think Collingwood still get the better of a White for Shaw trade on an even swap. I think a Cloke and White forward combo is just what Collingwood need to get them back in top 4. If it is true, they've scored a very good pickup. And if they can offload that bigmouth Shaw, all the better for them. I'd package Heath Shaw with Mummy and send them both to GWS if the deal were right.

Joking aside, I think a straight swap, should it happen, would be fair and good for both teams. If we get Heath, he would probably offer a good 1-2 punch out of the backline teamed up with Malceski for the next few years, freeing up Macca for his usual midfield role. Perhaps we will sign Mummy as well.

[Cardinal]

Shaw and Mummy would be worth a #1 pick. Shaw is an awesome player. His ungraceful gait belies his awesome talent.

[Auntie.Gerald]

well

if Rohan becomes our Goodes up front in the years to come

then Reid and Tip do their thing in thru the spine and we can keep Mummy and Pyke then we are ok

if we cant keep mummy and trade white I am @@@@ scared

IF TRUE re white and the pies.........I must say because of my personality flaw of always loving the ride of a player going from nothing to something I am sad to let Whitey go but such is life and this feeling too, will pass :)

[Matt80]

I think Jesse has been ridden quite hard by both Longmire and Roos, and would rightly be looking at a new start.

I have great resect for Longmire, but rating Tommy Walsh ahead of White for two seasons is a joke. Tommy Walsh has never reached White level and has no potential to so.

Good luck Jesse. I don't hate Collingwood anymore, in fact I like them now!

[Ludwig]

if we cant keep mummy and trade white I am @@@@ scared



It wouldn't be the best scenario, but don't fret, I think we can handle it. Pyke and Tippet can do the job. I'm sure we will pick up at least one additional ruckman in the draft as a backup in case Pyke goes down and Naismith isn't ready for the big time. And if that's not enough security, then there's always our miracle man: LRT.

[swansrob]

If we had to lose White, I was hoping he would go to the Bulldogs. Anyone but Collingwood (or St Kilda. Or Hawthorn)

[ugg]

I think a straight swap is fair. White is a big man, they need a big man. To swap our 1st pick for their 2nd pick would be overs.
You are either overrating White or underrating Shaw or perhaps both

[DK_]

Spoke to Jim Wilson (who broke the news) on Twitter. He thinks its a three yr deal for Jesse, though its not done yet. He thinks trade will involve Shaw.

[Melbourne_Blood]

You are either overrating White or underrating Shaw or perhaps both

Perhaps. Maybe Jesse and our second round pick but I wouldn't be giving away our first round pick in that trade. would you Ugg?

[crackedactor]

I think Jesse has been ridden quite hard by both Longmire and Roos, and would rightly be looking at a new start.

I have great resect for Longmire, but rating Tommy Walsh ahead of White for two seasons is a joke. Tommy Walsh has never reached White level and has no potential to so.

Good luck Jesse. I don't hate Collingwood anymore, in fact I like them now!Not sure if its just newspaper talk, but I read today that Armstrong and Walsh will be de-listed. I thought Walsh
looked OK before he got injured.

[BillyRayCypress]

I'm guessing that Armstrong may end up that way.

Walsh come over from St Kilda off their rookie list and with very little experience. So I would have thought that he was still learning the game and the serious injury has interrupted his progress for this year but will be a required player. The Swans did give up a bit for him in the trade.

Pie supporters are probably asking for White and Mummy for Shaw and 3rd round pick.

[wolftone57]

If we had enough money we could as an option get Heath Shaw and Darren Jolly for Shane Mumford and a late pick!

Would shore up the ruck division until Nasmith is ready!

So you would go for the decrepit, Jolly and the undisciplined, Shaw to bolster our playing stocks. I think this is Pharisaical. Jolly is far too old and has been here and is definitely not wanting to come back. Shaw is a problem onfield with team discipline and I can't see him changing.

Why don't we look to the draft and forget about these has-beens.

[BillyRayCypress]

So you would go for the decrepit, Jolly and the undisciplined, Shaw to bolster our playing stocks. I think this is Pharisaical. Jolly is far too old and has been here and is definitely not wanting to come back. Shaw is a problem onfield with team discipline and I can't see him changing.

Why don't we look to the draft and forget about these has-beens.

Wolfy, I've been looking in my Bible but I can't find the reference. :)

[Cardinal]

A quick horizon scan will find plenty better tuck options than Jolly out there - what's Jamar up to?

The Swans have the allure of a premiership window. It has to be worth something - look at Hawthorn's picks. Shaw would be our S. Burgoyne. His discipline issues are minor, I expect it's the relationship with Buckley that is the issue.

[BillyRayCypress]

Shaw would be our S. Burgoyne. His discipline issues are minor, I expect it's the relationship with Buckley that is the issue.

I thought Rhys would be outstanding in terms of dedication and devotion when he first joined. History has shown that he has been even better than that with his influence on younger players.

Heath should/will be better.

[wolftone57]

Wonder if we'll swap our pick 1 and White for Shaw and Pies pick 2 ?

This would be a really bad move. Jesse is twice the value Heath Shaw, as Heath is undisciplined and unpredictable. He is a time bomb waiting to happen. We need Jesse White, we don't need a @@@@head like Heath Shaw who would not play well for us anyway as he is a Pies man to his soul. Rhyce has had his problems adapting to playing Pies and gave the ball up to them more often than her kicked to us in the first half of the prelim last year.We don't need any other teams offcuts. We need young players we can develop. Watch how our young players develop next year, Biggs, Xav Richards, Brownie, Membrey, Towers, Lloyd etc they are all going to be good. Forget drafting a medium back like Shaw and look to draft a KPP back or two and a ruckman (rookie). We need more speed too.

[Ludwig]

You are either overrating White or underrating Shaw or perhaps both

If you take the totality of their respective careers, you would be correct. But given White's improvement, that he plays a more critical position, the age difference and off and on field baggage that Shaw carries, I think things even out a lot. Some of these things are difficult to weigh up, so it's a difficult call to make. I tend to think they are more even than you think.

[Cardinal]

I respect what Jesse has done as much as the next person. But let's face it, he filled a void out of necessity and performed above expectation compared to past disappointment. Let's not get carried away with his future potential. If we can get a gun like Shaw, who many commentators have said was the Pies most important player we should without hesitation!

[Ludwig]

Wolfy, I've been looking in my Bible but I can't find the reference. :)

:rofl

[Matt80]

Disappointed to lose Jesse, but Heath Shaw would be a good pick up. He would love life in Bondi and Coogee, where he could blend in and not be recognised all the time!

Jesse according to a Herald article needs to have an interview with Collingwood next week. I'm hoping this could be a ROK situation!

[mcs]

I think Jesse has been ridden quite hard by both Longmire and Roos, and would rightly be looking at a new start.

I have great resect for Longmire, but rating Tommy Walsh ahead of White for two seasons is a joke. Tommy Walsh has never reached White level and has no potential to so.

Good luck Jesse. I don't hate Collingwood anymore, in fact I like them now!

You do rate Jesse exceptionally highly, considering he has had pretty much 1/2 a good season in the top grade in his whole career. No doubt he played well in the second half of the year. But that could just be because he has been playing for a new contract or a trade.

If we get a decent trade for Jesse, I won't be unhappy at all. The guy could become a world beater, but I honestly don't think he will. Certainly not a trade I think anyone should be slashing wrists around, especially as eventually I do think it'll click for Sammy Reid, and I do think he will be far better than Jesse ever will be.

- - - Updated - - -


Not sure if its just newspaper talk, but I read today that Armstrong and Walsh will be de-listed. I thought Walsh
looked OK before he got injured.

Would be harsh on Walsh considering he looked like he had improved significantly before the injury - but I wouldn't be surprised if we put him back to the rookie list (I assume we can do that?). As for Armstrong, him not getting picked despite all our injuries late in the year says a lot to me and it wouldn't surprise me either if they do delist him. The guy can clearly play, but really has struggled to show composure at the AFL level.

[Ludwig]

We've been waiting 2 years for Reid to 'arrive'. First there was the shoulder injury, then the hamstring. This year he had the quad injury that kept him out half the season. He's only young, etc., etc. I too think he is a prodigious talent, but worry about his susceptibility to injury.

On the other hand, Jesse White actually has 'arrived'. He has strung together a more than respectable set of games, and seems to have improved as the season progressed. I can't remember him ever being injured, but it's probably because he spent so much time in reserves.

Well, I can see why some would think this is only a 'contract-time' Jesse, and once it's signed, it's back to the old Jesse. If that turns out to be the case, well I will be very pleased that he took Collingwood for a ride. It will be the best thing he every did for the Swans. And thanks Jude, for showing him off to Bucks and adding some credibility to this beautifully set up sting operation. You deserve your 10 % cut.

- - - Updated - - -


Not sure if its just newspaper talk, but I read today that Armstrong and Walsh will be de-listed. I thought Walsh
looked OK before he got injured.

Aren't Walsh and Armstrong flatmates? Maybe we need the room for new recruits.

They are both under contract for next season, so I am not sure how that works re the salary cap or payouts if it is true about their delisting. I wouldn't be totally surprised though.

I didn't think that Armstrong was all that bad. I know he has his weaknesses, but he seemed to be working them out in the reserves.

Maybe it is just newspaper speculation, as they are the obvious ones to go.

[ugg]

Swan Jesse White to seek a trade (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/swan-jesse-white-to-seek-a-trade-20130926-2uh1f.html)

Jesse's agent Ben Williams:


"Today I had a meeting with the Sydney Swans on behalf of Jesse and I have requested a trade for him. All of Jesse's family live in Melbourne so that is the likely destination for him," Williams said.

[BillyRayCypress]

Swan Jesse White to seek a trade (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/swan-jesse-white-to-seek-a-trade-20130926-2uh1f.html)

Jesse's agent Ben Williams:




[/FONT][/COLOR]


I liked this bit:


The Swans also have premiership ruckman Shane Mumford still yet to sign a new contract with Greater Western Sydney understood to be interested. It is doubtful the former Geelong ruckman would now leave the Swans.

[Matt80]

I do rate Jesse highly and have always been a believer. He came in for Hall in 2009 and played very well. In 2010 he had to deal with Bradshaw coming in. In 2011 and 2012 he had to deal with Sam Reid, LRT, Mike Pyke and Tom Walsh being rated ahead of him.

He has the most talent and potential out of all those guys with the exception of Bradshaw!

That talent and potential is starting to really click now and he understands what is required!

I want the Swans to enjoy the benefits of an astute and patient investment, considering he was one of the last picks in the 2006 draft.

He would play very well for Collingwood in supporting Travis Cloke, but I would like him supporting his old Southport teammate Kurt Tippett!

[Swansongster]

Just slow down a bit guys. I am still back on page 10 trying to catch up and I keep seeing the number of pages on this thread climbing.

[BillyRayCypress]

At Southport, Kurt played CHF and Jesse played CHB.

[Meg]

Just slow down a bit guys. I am still back on page 10 trying to catch up and I keep seeing the number of pages on this thread climbing.

Come on, keep up!

[Swansongster]

Come on, keep up!

OK I made it. Been away fishing with the kids for a few days. So my summary of this thread is that we all still have no idea what is going to happen.

For mine. Jesse expendable (for a reasonable trade - such as H. Shaw) but please keep Mummy and Reid.

[Matt80]

Nick Riewalt is also from the Southport Sharks. There is some serious key position talent coming out of that club!

[BillyRayCypress]

OK I made it. Been away fishing with the kids for a few days. So my summary of this thread is that we all still have no idea what is going to happen.

.

That will probably still be the case with 24 hours left on the trade countdown clock.

[0918330512]

I do rate Jesse highly and have always been a believer. He came in for Hall in 2009 and played very well. In 2010 he had to deal with Bradshaw coming in. In 2011 and 2012 he had to deal with Sam Reid, LRT, Mike Pyke and Tom Walsh being rated ahead of him.

He has the most talent and potential out of all those guys with the exception of Bradshaw!

More talent & potential than Reid? I respectfully disagree


He would play very well for Collingwood in supporting Travis Cloke, but I would like him supporting his old Southport teammate Kurt Tippett!

You want to trade BOTH White AND Tippett to Collingwood?!

[Ludwig]

We should have read the signs that he was heading for Collingwood, as he's added a few new Tatts this year. He still has a way to go to keep up with his new teammates. It will be a good fit.

- - - Updated - - -

Didn't someone say that Jude was his agent?

[liz]

Those arguing that retaining Jesse should be a priority for the Swans need to understand that even if the club would like to keep him, it is out of their hands.

Look at things from Jesse's point of view. His football improved markedly in 2012. His fitness improved, he finally seemed to accept that his chances at sustained senior football would be enhanced if he could become at least a semi-competent back-up ruckman, and offer something around the ground. He played much of the reserves season in the ruck, winning himself the ruck spot in the NEAFL Eastern Conference team of the year. When he went forward, he was productive and kicked a couple of big bags of goals.

Despite this, senior opportunities were few and far between. The Swans senior team was going great guns and there were few injuries that opened up even the glimmer of senior opportunity for Jesse.

At the end of the year, the Swans set their sights on Tippett, whose arrival at the club would limit even further any chances Jesse might have to force his way into the senior team. To add insult to injury, he was offered up as a trade to Adelaide - not in itself a bad thing for Jesse - and promptly became a source of ridicule, with the media speculating (possibly correctly) that the Swans were desperate to rid themselves of him and his fat contract so that they could fit Tippett under the cap.

The trade falls through, and Jesse has to front back up to the Swans for the start of the new pre-season in the knowledge that he was a long way from being a required player and further than ever away from senior footy. Despite this, he knuckles down, applies himself, and continues to improve his endurance.

The new season starts and he is, of course, in the reserves team. He plays well, taking up from where he left off the previous year. On the injury front, things are a little different for the Swans. First they lose LRT to long term injury, a player directly competing with Jesse as a forward cum makeshift ruck. Mumford's not in top nick and Pyke is shouldering much of the ruckwork on his own. Still Jesse's stuck in the reserves. The Reid gets injured. So does Goodes. What happens? Walsh gets called up for a senior game ahead of Jesse.

Fortune only changes for Jesse at Walsh's expense and he is literally the only tall player left standing. He gets a senior recall and, to his credit, makes decent contributions in some games, very good ones in others. The media starts talking about him, suggesting how much Adelaide must wish they'd taken him, especially with Walker gone for the season. By the end of the year he's put together a pretty reasonable three months of football on the public stage and the general perception of him is that he's not such a dud after all.

But still, he looks at the Swans list and realises that Goodes and Reid and LRT are all expected back next year. Tippett won't be suspended for half the season. Players like Membrey, Rohan and maybe Towers are breathing down his neck fighting for spots in next year's forward line. He's not going to be in the best 22, even after the relatively good show he's put on when opportunity finally came knocking.

Other clubs have taken notice of his decent form, and some of them are crying out for a player like him, They have a clear spot for him in their senior team. Collingwood is an obvious case in point. They recruited Lynch to provide big-bodied senior support to Cloke, and to pinch hit in the ruck but it was clear early in the season that Lynch was on his last legs. They were forced to play their best key defender as a forward just so that Cloke wasn't triple teamed the whole time. By the end of the season, they have also realised that their number one ruckman of the past few seasons is physically shot, and delist him, leaving two very young and inexperienced rucks to lead the way in 2014, supported by the near pensioner in Hudson. They desperately need someone like Jesse who they don't expect to become a world beater but has a definite role to play over the next couple of seasons. They offer him a 3 year contract. Jesse may never get another opportunity. His stocks aren't going to rise if he plays another season or two in the NEAFL and he's 25 already, so should be in peak of his career. He can't afford to wait around for another two years for Goodes and LRT to retire and hope that no-one else has emerged ahead of him.

If I were Jesse, I know what I would do.

[gumby_bolts]

Great post Liz. I wish him all the best, seems like a nice guy and why shouldn't he make the most of his opportunities.

[Go Swannies]

A good summary Liz. There are times when I resent a player leaving but I'd be happy for Jesse if he gets a chance to keep improving at another club, even Collingwood. He was so much help when we really needed him at the end of 2013 and it'd be heart-breaking for him to go back to the 2s in 2014 when we have those ahead of him back in the team again.

The attempted trade for Tippett was certainly a wake up for Jesse and being traded to another team may be the next impetus to realise more of his potential. Good on him. If by leaving he gives us the ability to trade for H Shaw he should leave with our gratitude, both for the end of this year and the beginning of next.

[ernie koala]

Spot on Liz.

IMO, the only chance of White remaining at the Swans, is if Mummy is elsewhere.

[ShockOfHair]

Spot on Liz.

IMO, the only chance of White remaining at the Swans, is if Mummy is elsewhere.

+1. Well said Liz. We are overburdened with quality talls. No surprise seeing Jesse wanting to go while the going is good.

But I'm thinking more the opposite of Ernie, and as this story suggests: if White goes, Mumford is far more likely to stay.

Pies, Dogs in mix for Sydney big man Jesse White (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/pies-dogs-in-mix-for-sydney-big-man-jesse-white-20130926-2uh1f.html)

[Ludwig]

Great writeup Liz. Should go into the 2013 History of the Swans archives.

I've been a big Jesse supporter this year, but have always said that if we sign him, we have to consider him in our best 22. I would have have preferred to see Mummy go and Jesse stay. But as you have pointed out, from Jesse's perspective he is better off at someplace like Collingwood. I thought Brisbane would also be a good fit, but he says he wants to move to Victoria.

Hope we get a deal for him.

[Melbournehammer]

Great post Liz, and that's part of the reason why I don't even care what we get for him. He was, I am pretty sure told, similar to svhauble in 2005, that he wouldn't get a game. But he stuck at it, didn't let his head drop and kept going. And he deserves a lot of praise in my mind for continuing to contribute in both the twos and more recently the ones when it was clear that the coaching staff didn't want to play him.

Imagine being at any workplace and turning up day after day with your papers marked only in case of last resort.

I hope he makes a real go of it wherever he goes.

[DK_]

Brilliant post Liz! I'm a big Jesse fan, and I'll be sorry to see him go, but cannot argue with your logic. He simply will not get a game in a team with Goodes, Reid, Tippett, Mumford and LRT.

Looking at it from the Swans point of view, you wouldn't want a player of that quality and age languishing in the reserves either. On top of taking up a list spot which could be filled by a future superstar, he would take up a lot of salary cap space for a backup player. Plus, he can only keep his chin up for so long before he becomes a cultural issue.

As unpleasant as it is for fans, this time of the year isn't about holding onto as many good players as possible. It's about getting the team balance across the field and across the years right. This means letting go of some quality players who have greater value elsewhere to get our hands on other team's quality players or quality draft picks.

We should be glad that Jesse had the perseverance and put in the hard work to increase his value this year. He was bumbling towards a delisting, but is now very valuable on the market, which is great for both Jesse and the Swans.

FWIW, I think he'll be a great fit for the Pies. Aside from the tattoo and empty CHF spots that others have raised, by all reports, he's a great clubman who has demonstrated a really good attitude in trying circumstances this year. For a team trying to effect cultural change like the Pies, this would be gold.

WRT his manager, Jesse himself tweeted that Jude will be his man about a week ago, though going by the SMH article, he hasn't taken over yet.

[Matt80]

Great post Liz.

If he was to get to Collingwood, he would do very well there! I still believe he is more talented than Sam Reid due to his superior kicking, greater physical durability and the ability to Pinch Hit in the ruck. Sam Reid is the better high mark and is more effective at defensive pressure!

The club has chosen Sam Reid as their preferred key position player and I hope he comes good! To be getting multiple soft tissue injuries as a 22 year old is very concerning and usually impacts players 10 years his senior!

If Jesse does get to Collingwood, I would probably prefer that the Swans received a good draft pick over an established player like Shaw. We could save the money and be ready for a big free agency push as the end of 2014, when some Swans big names are ready to retire. We need to also insure that we are paying players like K. Jack, Kennedy and Hananbery what they are worth!

[BillyRayCypress]

Good write up Liz.

Football is a meat market for players and they should do everything to look after their own long term welfare.

[Primmy]

Exactly Liz. I once told Jesse I thought he could be a Gun (early game in Ressies), and I have been waiting and waiting. Its taken a lot of time, he has maintained his good grace and enjoyment of everyone else's success. The opportunities just didn't fall his way, by twist of luck or misfortune. But its now time for him to do what he HAS to do to make a proper career out of the game of AFL.

Don't die wondering Jesse. Go for it. Right behind you.

Show the world what a true gentleman of the game looks like.

[wolftone57]

Surely because they thougth there would be no interest in them , Jolly maybe going to Dees aside i dont think the other 2 will be looked at elsewhere. On top of that they possibly have 3 others that theyll want to be concentrating on in Shaw,Thomas and O'Brien. I think theyll lose Shaw and O'Brien which may free up enough cash for them to hold onto Thomas.

I think they will lose all three. Thomas does not want to stay under Buckley same goes for O'Brien. Shaw would want to stay but Bucks is not happy with him and wants to move him on. When Bucks backed Eddy he basically lost Krakour and Harry and even though Harry played the last part of the season there were tensions.

[johnno]

Are we 'officially' chasing anyone?

I've heard a couple of theories regarding Buddy. Do we want him? Could we fit him in the salary cap?

I think we really need a key position defender

Anyone else?

[magic.merkin]

All the best Jesse. Never a bigger grin has been seen when his team mate kicks a goal. Keep throwing that weight around!

I dip my lid to Liz again. Always concise, well reasoned and on point!

Funnily enough I was watching Micky O's 300th game from 2009 this morning. Jesse clean skinned, was much heavier looking. So with his endurance increase has also come a slimming down to a near perfect body for his size and role. As long as he has no niggles, he is cherry ripe to go! Sadly Collingwood will now enjoy this :(

[Untamed Snark]

Has anyone thought about trading for O'Brien?
Jesse + a pick or fringe player?

[Plugger1300]

Sad to see Jesse go. We invested a lot both time and money. No hard feelings and hope he plays well wherever (just not against us)
Can't believe people on this site rate him in Mumfords vicinity. We are talking about one of the top 3 ruckman in the league imo.

Whether or not you rate Reid above him is up to you but Reid for me offers a lot more going forward or back if you get me.

Worry a little about Jesse at the Pies. Always thought his confidence was the deriding factor in his form. The melbourne press and Collingwood supporters expectations will prove to be sapping on him.

Also we don't want O'brien! What we need is another tall backman but Collingwood and the bulldogs won't offer us that.
I would take the Shaw gamble

[Matt80]

Lots of support for Jesse and his next career move.

Will Sam Reid be able to replicate White's late season form for the whole of 2014?

I don't want to be in a situation next season where Sam Reid is out with another soft tissue injury and Jesse White had destroyed Heath Grundy in combining for 10 goals between he and Travis Cloke against the Swans!

[Mug Punter]

Those arguing that retaining Jesse should be a priority for the Swans need to understand that even if the club would like to keep him, it is out of their hands.

Look at things from Jesse's point of view. His football improved markedly in 2012. His fitness improved, he finally seemed to accept that his chances at sustained senior football would be enhanced if he could become at least a semi-competent back-up ruckman, and offer something around the ground. He played much of the reserves season in the ruck, winning himself the ruck spot in the NEAFL Eastern Conference team of the year. When he went forward, he was productive and kicked a couple of big bags of goals.

Despite this, senior opportunities were few and far between. The Swans senior team was going great guns and there were few injuries that opened up even the glimmer of senior opportunity for Jesse.

At the end of the year, the Swans set their sights on Tippett, whose arrival at the club would limit even further any chances Jesse might have to force his way into the senior team. To add insult to injury, he was offered up as a trade to Adelaide - not in itself a bad thing for Jesse - and promptly became a source of ridicule, with the media speculating (possibly correctly) that the Swans were desperate to rid themselves of him and his fat contract so that they could fit Tippett under the cap.

The trade falls through, and Jesse has to front back up to the Swans for the start of the new pre-season in the knowledge that he was a long way from being a required player and further than ever away from senior footy. Despite this, he knuckles down, applies himself, and continues to improve his endurance.

The new season starts and he is, of course, in the reserves team. He plays well, taking up from where he left off the previous year. On the injury front, things are a little different for the Swans. First they lose LRT to long term injury, a player directly competing with Jesse as a forward cum makeshift ruck. Mumford's not in top nick and Pyke is shouldering much of the ruckwork on his own. Still Jesse's stuck in the reserves. The Reid gets injured. So does Goodes. What happens? Walsh gets called up for a senior game ahead of Jesse.

Fortune only changes for Jesse at Walsh's expense and he is literally the only tall player left standing. He gets a senior recall and, to his credit, makes decent contributions in some games, very good ones in others. The media starts talking about him, suggesting how much Adelaide must wish they'd taken him, especially with Walker gone for the season. By the end of the year he's put together a pretty reasonable three months of football on the public stage and the general perception of him is that he's not such a dud after all.

But still, he looks at the Swans list and realises that Goodes and Reid and LRT are all expected back next year. Tippett won't be suspended for half the season. Players like Membrey, Rohan and maybe Towers are breathing down his neck fighting for spots in next year's forward line. He's not going to be in the best 22, even after the relatively good show he's put on when opportunity finally came knocking.

Other clubs have taken notice of his decent form, and some of them are crying out for a player like him, They have a clear spot for him in their senior team. Collingwood is an obvious case in point. They recruited Lynch to provide big-bodied senior support to Cloke, and to pinch hit in the ruck but it was clear early in the season that Lynch was on his last legs. They were forced to play their best key defender as a forward just so that Cloke wasn't triple teamed the whole time. By the end of the season, they have also realised that their number one ruckman of the past few seasons is physically shot, and delist him, leaving two very young and inexperienced rucks to lead the way in 2014, supported by the near pensioner in Hudson. They desperately need someone like Jesse who they don't expect to become a world beater but has a definite role to play over the next couple of seasons. They offer him a 3 year contract. Jesse may never get another opportunity. His stocks aren't going to rise if he plays another season or two in the NEAFL and he's 25 already, so should be in peak of his career. He can't afford to wait around for another two years for Goodes and LRT to retire and hope that no-one else has emerged ahead of him.

If I were Jesse, I know what I would do.

Spot on analysis.

Wish the Big Jesse all the best, don't think we quite saw the best of him but doubt this trade will come back to haunt us either

[Ludwig]

I would like to see a 3 way deal with Jesse going to the Pies, Shaw to the Giants and either Jaksch or Josh Bruce coming to us. Everybody wins. Shaw is just what the Giants need and we get our KPD.

[Mountain Man]

Now that is a good outcome, IMHO

[Primmy]

Good point Lud. Its been done before, so....wouldn't it be a feather in your cap if you have made an early call!!

[Panttz]

Shaw is an absolute gun and any potential issues with his attitude would be squashed by his brother and our strong leadership group in the first weeks of pre season. I would happily take the Shaw+3rd round for Jesse in a heart beat!

[Mug Punter]

I would like to see a 3 way deal with Jesse going to the Pies, Shaw to the Giants and either Jaksch or Josh Bruce coming to us. Everybody wins. Shaw is just what the Giants need and we get our KPD.

I'd like that trade!!

Shaw to the Bogans would be a good recruit for them. If I was SOS I'd also seriously be considering picking up Chapman from Geelong on a 2 year deal if they can get him for free - he's still got a bit iof footy in him but would be a great mentor for the young uns, which could be vital if they recruit that peanut Franklin....

[Triple B]

As we have discussed in this and other threads, we are really squeezed for places on the main list with the guys we already have, so trades like 'Player X for Player Z and a 3rd rd pick' don't help us in that regard. Unless Player Z is a player that could improve us immediately (such as Heath Shaw), we are worse off.

I reckon we should be doing whatever we can to upgrade our 1st and 2nd rounders, as that is more than likely all we'll use, our 3rd and any subsequent picks will be on the Rampe's and Perris' of the world.

We'd probably look a loser in a scenario such as 'White to Collingwood for a swap of 1st and 2nd rounders'. We lose Jesse but move from 15 and 33, to 11 and 29 (or thereabouts) in the draft. That's probably not ideal, but it's the type of strategy I'd like us to work towards...

[Mug Punter]

As we have discussed in this and other threads, we are really squeezed for places on the main list with the guys we already have, so trades like 'Player X for Player Z and a 3rd rd pick' don't help us in that regard. Unless Player Z is a player that could improve us immediately (such as Heath Shaw), we are worse off.

I reckon we should be doing whatever we can to upgrade our 1st and 2nd rounders, as that is more than likely all we'll use, our 3rd and any subsequent picks will be on the Rampe's and Perris' of the world.

We'd probably look a loser in a scenario such as 'White to Collingwood for a swap of 1st and 2nd rounders'. We lose Jesse but move from 15 and 33, to 11 and 29 (or thereabouts) in the draft. That's probably not ideal, but it's the type of strategy I'd like us to work towards...

Would also allow us an extra draft pick to accomodate Perris should we wish to draft him

[Ludwig]

Good point Lud. Its been done before, so....wouldn't it be a feather in your cap if you have made an early call!!

Thanks Prim, but feathers in caps are not a good look in Thailand. :redface:

- - - Updated - - -

On the draft pick upgrade, what would you think about White plus our pick 33 for Collingwood's pick 10, or if Collingwood get an end of 1st round pick for Daisy, White plus our 3rd rounder for pick 20. I think some of the picks will slip down a few notches once the compo picks are announced. Who knows what Hawthorne will get for Buddy.

If we don't get a KPD by other means, I think it is quite possible that we will use our pick 14/15 for Darcy Gardiner, rated the best KPD in this year's draft. The several picks before ours are from teams unlikely to take a defender. So I don't think it pays to upgrade our first pick.

[Triple B]

On the draft pick upgrade, what would you think about White plus our pick 33 for Collingwood's pick 10...

Take that in a heartbeat. Gives us 2 first round picks and room to upgrade Rampe, Perris, BJ and Biggs.

[Ludwig]

Take that in a heartbeat. Gives us 2 first round picks and room to upgrade Rampe, Perris, BJ and Biggs.

It sounded fair to me, but I rate Jesse. I wonder what Collingwood would think.

If we don't do any other trades, that would probably mean we add Perris, Darcy Gardiner (Ted replacement) and another midfielder with pick 10 (Bontempelli, Freeman, Salem). There aren't any decent KPPs between Boyd and Gardiner in this draft except perhaps for Cameron McCarthy, but 2 KPPs in the first round is a bit much.

As for the rookie upgrades, I would put Jake Lloyd ahead of Biggs and BJ. Was clearly our best reserves player this year. I think he'll be every bit as good as Hanners. Even though he's never played a senior game, I wouldn't hesitate throwing him in right now. Just oozes class.

[swansrob]

Biggs has to be elevated or delisted doesn't he (or is it three years)?

[Matt80]

Like the idea of improving our position in the draft in exchange for Jesse White. This allows us to save up some salary cap

According to this thread Ben Reid will be a free agent at the end of 2014. If he does not sign for Collingwood if would be good to go for him and unite him with Sam!

I read in the paper that Jesse has a business in Melbourne! Is the business T-Shirt design and production?

[BillyRayCypress]

Exactly Liz. I once told Jesse I thought he could be a Gun (early game in Ressies), and I have been waiting and waiting.

Show the world what a true gentleman of the game looks like.

Primmy, he didn't realise you wanted him as your Man Friday. :)

I imagine this season has been hard without the oozing testosterone levels you used to be exposed to in the Brewongle. :)

- - - Updated - - -


I read in the paper that Jesse has a business in Melbourne! Is the business T-Shirt design and production?

Didn't Jude and Amon have a similar business before Bucky went to the Lions?

[Steve]

Good luck to White if he can get 3 years elsewhere. 12 months ago Collingwood were keen on Quinten Lynch for that same role, so I think there would still be a lot of pressure on him and he could easily fall out of favour quite quickly.

We should also just give Mumford what he wants - it would be a much greater risk to go into next year with only Pyke (who will also be 30 and is hardly a long-term option), than retain Mummy on a big contract and worry about his body holding up.

If we let him go, we'll end up paying over the odds to recruit a ruckman for 2015 and beyond anyway.

[The Big Cat]

Jon Ralph saying on radio this morning that Mummy is Gawn! To GWS and Swannies will ultimately finish up with two first round and two second round picks in the PSD.

[mcs]

Jon Ralph saying on radio this morning that Mummy is Gawn! To GWS and Swannies will ultimately finish up with two first round and two second round picks in the PSD.

Surely that would be the national draft, not the Pre season draft?

[liz]

Jon Ralph saying on radio this morning that Mummy is Gawn! To GWS and Swannies will ultimately finish up with two first round and two second round picks in the PSD.

Surely you must mean in the ND, not the PSD?

[DK_]

Any idea who's got a young, but AFL standard, ruckman who might be wiling to participate in a three way trade? Geelong perhaps? Didn't they have three competing for the ruck this year?

[Untamed Snark]

Jon Ralph saying on radio this morning that Mummy is Gawn! To GWS and Swannies will ultimately finish up with two first round and two second round picks in the PSD.

Realistically how reliable is that?

[Ludwig]

If true, it sounds like the Pies will offer around pick 31 for White. So that would give us picks 9, 14. 31 and 34. Doubt it will end up like this, but certainly White and Mummy going is quite likely.

We could use 34 to probably get the best young ruckman in the draft. We will all be crossing our fingers that nothing happens to Pyke or Naismith turns out to be a revelation. But after 2014, I suspect we will be fine. We'll have the ruck situation worked out.

[BillyRayCypress]

Well if Mummy is off to GWS, we should go for Pick 1 by adding another player.

[The Big Cat]

Surely you must mean in the ND, not the PSD?

Yeah. I would have sworn on a stack of Bibles that I typed ND.

[Ludwig]

Yeah. I would have sworn on a stack of Bibles that I typed ND.

Must have been BillyRay's Bibles! :smile:

[BillyRayCypress]

Must have been BillyRay's Bibles! :smile:

Yes, nothing like having a good read before the moonshine.

Brian Lake wins Norm Smith and you would have to say that he was the trade of last season.

I would think that the Swans would not let Mummy leave unless they had a similar plan to when they traded Jolly.

Now with the likelihood of both going (White and Mumford) I hope that the Swans may get more aggressive in this year's trading and maybe try to update the list as they did at the end of 2009.

Supporters always tend to overestimate the quality of their list and realistically, how much more will we get from the like of LRT, Shaw, Goodes and ROK. Its not so much that they are getting old but injuries now are robbing them and the team of most of the season.

I'm a big fan of Reid but both he and MItchell have spent more time on the sideline this year than playing. Will that change next year?

Last year there didn't seem a need for teams to rest players whereas this year there has been that change. Will that carry over to next year?

The trade stories should start flying fairly thick this week.

[Flying South]

Package up mumford and grundy to gws for Boyd. Reid to CHB. Trade in another hard bodied inside midfielder, someone like Sylvia to help out Kennedy and Mitchell. Would Melbourne be interested in lamb or mcglynn. White for earliest draft pick we can get.

[Bloodthirsty]

Package up mumford and grundy to gws for Boyd. Reid to CHB. Trade in another hard bodied inside midfielder, someone like Sylvia to help out Kennedy and Mitchell. Would Melbourne be interested in lamb or mcglynn. White for earliest draft pick we can get.

I'm keen for anything that doesn't require 'development time', so they better be ready to go. Our period of dominance should start in 2014, injury free of course.

- - - Updated - - -


Well if Mummy is off to GWS, we should go for Pick 1 by adding another player.

Yep.

- - - Updated - - -


Package up mumford and grundy to gws for Boyd. Reid to CHB. Trade in another hard bodied inside midfielder, someone like Sylvia to help out Kennedy and Mitchell. Would Melbourne be interested in lamb or mcglynn. White for earliest draft pick we can get.

Agree with it all man but would GWS take Mummy and Grundy for Boyd?

- - - Updated - - -

Also....just wanna predict a Swans v Freo GF in 2014.

[jono2707]

Why we'd think Grundy should be traded is beyond me. He's one of the foundation stones of one of the best defenses in the comp over the last few years. We shouldn't mess with that.

If Jesse and Mummy want to go, fine, but we shouldn't be trading away anyone else at this point.

[Industrial Fan]

Armstrong will go. Mcglynn is another that I think needs to become a run with player or we need to rehome him. Plenty of effort but looked like a headless chook in his last few games. I've always been a fan of his but I think we've outgrown him. He did an outstanding job on Didak as a tagger when he was a hawk, and Didak was good.

[Ludwig]

Why we'd think Grundy should be traded is beyond me. He's one of the foundation stones of one of the best defenses in the comp over the last few years. We shouldn't mess with that.


I think it's just that if you can get Boyd in the draft then you move Reid into defence, Johnson comes back and Grundy becomes superfluous. You still have LRT to backup and few up and comers in the ressies. So it makes sense from that perspective. You have to do better than just tread water, because the comp gets harder every year.

- - - Updated - - -


Armstrong will go. Mcglynn is another that I think needs to become a run with player or we need to rehome him. Plenty of effort but looked like a headless chook in his last few games. I've always been a fan of his but I think we've outgrown him. He did an outstanding job on Didak as a tagger when he was a hawk, and Didak was good.

Agree on both counts. I don't know if we could get anything for Armstrong, but would be good just to get him off the payroll. If not, he has shown improvement in the ressies this year, so there is some hope. You're right about McGlynn. I see him only as a specialist tagger now. I don't know who would take him, but you never know. Most probably he will stay on.

[goswannies]

I would think that the Swans would not let Mummy leave unless they had a similar plan to when they traded Jolly.

Hate to burst your bubble but we cannot stop Mummy leaving. The only control we have is that, unless he wants to go to GWS, other clubs will have to trade with us. But if he simply wants out he goes like Tippett did from the Crows & tries to price himself to a club.
Jolly was still under contract, so we had much more control.

[Matt80]

If Mumford and GWS want each other, he can be the first pick in the Pre-Season Draft. We would get nothing for Mumford if that was the simple deal!

If you wanted GWS's pick 1 in a package deal with Mumford, you would need to give them one or two outstanding players who are young enough and hard enough to provide GWS good currency! Josh Kennedy and Mumford would work, maybe Grundy, Tom Mitchell and Mumford would work!

GWS own all the cards in this deal and they will extract maximum value in any deal. I would be more inclined to go for a second round or late first round and throw Ben McGlynn and Jed Lamb in with Mumford. The giants may like a hard player like McGlynn.

[Dosser]

All of this talk about Reid moving to the backline. If Mummy and White both go, then who is our CHF? LRT or Walsh wont cut it. The best result would be for White to stay (which he wont) so that Reid goes back. Otherwise we are stuck with Ted and Reg in the backline and Sam up front.

[Ludwig]

All of this talk about Reid moving to the backline. If Mummy and White both go, then who is our CHF? LRT or Walsh wont cut it. The best result would be for White to stay (which he wont) so that Reid goes back. Otherwise we are stuck with Ted and Reg in the backline and Sam up front.

When you have a Kurt Tippett as your FF, your options are many in how to structure the forward line. If Reid were to go to the backline and with Johnson returning as well, then LRT, Goodes and Everitt offer a few tall options up forward, one or two will suffice. Furthermore, we can choose from Rohan, ROK, Membrey and Towers as other strong marking, good goal kickers, to add to the mix. I think we have seven good options to choose from to fill perhaps 3 or 4 spots, even without Reid or White in the mix. I prefer a more open forward line with a less predictable look than one where you have Tippett, Mummy and Pyke all competing for the long bomb.

[BillyRayCypress]

Hate to burst your bubble but we cannot stop Mummy leaving. The only control we have is that, unless he wants to go to GWS, other clubs will have to trade with us. But if he simply wants out he goes like Tippett did from the Crows & tries to price himself to a club.
Jolly was still under contract, so we had much more control.

I agree with what you're saying but the Swans have the option to keep him. Tippett wanted out of the Crows.

So if the Swans choose to not match the GWS offer then they have balanced up the positives and negatives of keeping him for that offer and chose that the negatives outweigh the positives. That includes knowing that they could lose him for nothing.

[stellation]

I agree with what you're saying but the Swans have the option to keep him. Tippett wanted out of the Crows.

So if the Swans choose to not match the GWS offer then they have balanced up the positives and negatives of keeping him for that offer and chose that the negatives outweigh the positives. That includes knowing that they could lose him for nothing.
I get that they're worried about his body holding up, and I really don't know all the ins and outs of negotiations or how his body is holding up, but if they don't have a ruck solution for next year beyond running with Pyke then I hope they think long and hard about their offer. I appreciate the need for austerity in 3 and 4 years time, but I think it's reasonable to say we're in a premiership window now and I'd hate to see us risk 1 year in a window for the sake of 1 year in the future.

I suspect they aren't completely sure about running with Pyke considering they are willing to give Mummy 2 years, presumably at good money as the only thing we've heard about is the number of years being an issue. I wonder if we've gone back to him and offered 3 years? If we are in financial dire straits in that third year I'd be surprised if there wasn't a team willing to trade for him at the end of the second (short of a complete breakdown of his body, which we're obviously gambling wouldn't happen over 2 years as that's within the window we're wiling to offer him).

[sharp9]

Those arguing that retaining Jesse should be a priority for the Swans need to understand that even if the club would like to keep him, it is out of their hands.

Look at things from Jesse's point of view. His football improved markedly in 2012. His fitness improved, he finally seemed to accept that his chances at sustained senior football would be enhanced if he could become at least a semi-competent back-up ruckman, and offer something around the ground. He played much of the reserves season in the ruck, winning himself the ruck spot in the NEAFL Eastern Conference team of the year. When he went forward, he was productive and kicked a couple of big bags of goals.

Despite this, senior opportunities were few and far between. The Swans senior team was going great guns and there were few injuries that opened up even the glimmer of senior opportunity for Jesse.

At the end of the year, the Swans set their sights on Tippett, whose arrival at the club would limit even further any chances Jesse might have to force his way into the senior team. To add insult to injury, he was offered up as a trade to Adelaide - not in itself a bad thing for Jesse - and promptly became a source of ridicule, with the media speculating (possibly correctly) that the Swans were desperate to rid themselves of him and his fat contract so that they could fit Tippett under the cap.

The trade falls through, and Jesse has to front back up to the Swans for the start of the new pre-season in the knowledge that he was a long way from being a required player and further than ever away from senior footy. Despite this, he knuckles down, applies himself, and continues to improve his endurance.

The new season starts and he is, of course, in the reserves team. He plays well, taking up from where he left off the previous year. On the injury front, things are a little different for the Swans. First they lose LRT to long term injury, a player directly competing with Jesse as a forward cum makeshift ruck. Mumford's not in top nick and Pyke is shouldering much of the ruckwork on his own. Still Jesse's stuck in the reserves. The Reid gets injured. So does Goodes. What happens? Walsh gets called up for a senior game ahead of Jesse.

Fortune only changes for Jesse at Walsh's expense and he is literally the only tall player left standing. He gets a senior recall and, to his credit, makes decent contributions in some games, very good ones in others. The media starts talking about him, suggesting how much Adelaide must wish they'd taken him, especially with Walker gone for the season. By the end of the year he's put together a pretty reasonable three months of football on the public stage and the general perception of him is that he's not such a dud after all.

But still, he looks at the Swans list and realises that Goodes and Reid and LRT are all expected back next year. Tippett won't be suspended for half the season. Players like Membrey, Rohan and maybe Towers are breathing down his neck fighting for spots in next year's forward line. He's not going to be in the best 22, even after the relatively good show he's put on when opportunity finally came knocking.

Other clubs have taken notice of his decent form, and some of them are crying out for a player like him, They have a clear spot for him in their senior team. Collingwood is an obvious case in point. They recruited Lynch to provide big-bodied senior support to Cloke, and to pinch hit in the ruck but it was clear early in the season that Lynch was on his last legs. They were forced to play their best key defender as a forward just so that Cloke wasn't triple teamed the whole time. By the end of the season, they have also realised that their number one ruckman of the past few seasons is physically shot, and delist him, leaving two very young and inexperienced rucks to lead the way in 2014, supported by the near pensioner in Hudson. They desperately need someone like Jesse who they don't expect to become a world beater but has a definite role to play over the next couple of seasons. They offer him a 3 year contract. Jesse may never get another opportunity. His stocks aren't going to rise if he plays another season or two in the NEAFL and he's 25 already, so should be in peak of his career. He can't afford to wait around for another two years for Goodes and LRT to retire and hope that no-one else has emerged ahead of him.

If I were Jesse, I know what I would do.Okay Liz I've "known" you for 11 years or thereabouts....but that's possibly your best ever post. Superb....why can't paid journalists write with this clarity. :-)

[Flying South]

When you have a Kurt Tippett as your FF, your options are many in how to structure the forward line. If Reid were to go to the backline and with Johnson returning as well, then LRT, Goodes and Everitt offer a few tall options up forward, one or two will suffice. Furthermore, we can choose from Rohan, ROK, Membrey and Towers as other strong marking, good goal kickers, to add to the mix. I think we have seven good options to choose from to fill perhaps 3 or 4 spots, even without Reid or White in the mix. I prefer a more open forward line with a less predictable look than one where you have Tippett, Mummy and Pyke all competing for the long bomb.

I agree completely Ludwig, with or without Boyd, we could still have a great forward line. FWIW my analysis for our 2014 team and trading is as follows;

Full Forward Line
Starting 3: O?Keefe, Tippett, B Jack
Alternates: Cunningham, Everitt
Others: Walsh
Half Forward Line
Starting 3: Parker, Goodes, Rohan
Alternates: Membrey, Towers
Others: McGlynn
Centre Line
Starting 3: Jack, McVeigh, Hanneberry
Alternates: Jetta, Lloyd
Others: Lamb, Marsh
Followers
Starting 3: Pyke, Kennedy, Mitchell
Alternates: ????, Naismith
Others: Bird, D Robinson
Comment: This is the area we are definitely have a weakness. Mitchell is still young and can?t crash and bash all year. Bird is a good soldier, but not elite. Robinson could develop nicely, hopefully get a few senior games into him during the year. But we need to get in an experienced hard body. like a Sylvia, Chapman or Bell from Carlton (who I have a big opinion of). Could be short on the ruck stocks if Pyke gets injured.
Halfback Line
Starting 3: Smith, S Reid, Rampe
Alternates: Biggs, Lockyer
Others: Shaw, Dick
Fullback Line
Starting 3: Johnson, T Richards, Malceski
Alternates: LRT, X Richards
Others: Marsh
Comment: Starting to age a little. May need to play Marsh more or bring in a 25 year old in 2015.

Trade Table
Mumford ? wants 4 years.
Grundy ? I don?t believe he has enough run, to fit in the HB line, and LRT slots in ahead of him in the FB line. He would also be holding up the development of Xavier and Lockyer
Package these 2 up and send to GWS for pick 1. Either use this pick for Boyd or the best inside midfielder we can get.
White ? wants to leave. Trade for the highest draft pick.
Bird ? good foot soldier but not elite
McGlynn ? on latest form and for team to evolve I can?t fit him into my best 30. Happy to trade for draft pick.
Shaw ? for team evolvement, I can?t fit him into my best 30. If he wants to play on and no trade interest, happy for him to play in the two?s in a development role.
Lamb ? can?t fit into my best 30. He may want to go back to Melbourne anyway. Look to trade for an inside midfielder.

We may need to trade in a developing ruckman. I really rate Griffin from Fremantle and the Gold Coast have a few. But I haven?t put too much thought into this yet.

[mcs]

We are not going to get Pick 1 from GWS for Mumford and Grundy - it won't happen people.

I don't understand the hate for Grundy on here. Sure he an be frustrating to say the least, but he has also been part of one of the best defences over the last few years. Unlike LRT, he also can stay fit.

Freo aren't going to let Griffin go anywhere - Sandipants is what 31 I think, hasn't got much time left.

[sharp9]

Er...Grundy not enough run?? I know he's no legend but 32 possessions a couple of weeks ago. Cut the guy some slack

[snajik]

Realistically how reliable is that?

Isn't he a herald sun journalist? Aren't they without exception, idiots?

[Matt80]

Talking about Trade Season, why have every club walked away from pursuing Dustin Martin? He is a strong, quick, highly skilled inside midfielder who is only 22. His only option appears to be to sign with Richmond for a reduced amount!

Should the Swans have a look at him as a long term midfield replacement for ROK?

[Ludwig]

Boyd is more your FF type and we already have Tippett for that, so I would be targeting GWS's pick 9 instead.

Grundy is 27 and McGlynn 28, so both are at the peak of their careers. After this year they will lose a considerable amount of trade value. I would let Grundy go if it meant we could get a young key defender in return, either through a good draft or a player (probably from GWS).

One thing being overlooked in many calculations is just how much improvement Everitt has made this year. He really finished off the end of season well. But with so many talls returning, it's going to be hard to fit to him. With Tippett in the lineup, the return of Rowan and the promising form of Membrey, it seems that LRT is better suited for a return to the backline, which I think is really his best stop. That will limit Everitt's opportunities mostly to the to forward line. I think Dre forward and LRT back best suits their relative strengths.

If the list is healthy we have plenty of KPP options for next year. But with many of them in the final years of their careers, we will need to get some young KPPs into the club.

[ernie koala]

Talking about Trade Season, why have every club walked away from pursuing Dustin Martin? He is a strong, quick, highly skilled inside midfielder who is only 22. His only option appears to be to sign with Richmond for a reduced amount!

Should the Swans have a look at him as a long term midfield replacement for ROK?

Not at his asking price of $600k per year...Not even close.

[Triple B]

Talking about Trade Season, why have every club walked away from pursuing Dustin Martin? He is a strong, quick, highly skilled inside midfielder who is only 22. His only option appears to be to sign with Richmond for a reduced amount!

Should the Swans have a look at him as a long term midfield replacement for ROK?

There's a reason all these clubs have turned their back on him.

Leppitsch has worked with him his whole career, goes to Brisbane. Nek minnit, Brisbane withdraws any interest in Martin. That say's it all really...

[Matt80]

Great post Triple B!

It's a shame for Dustin as inside midfielders of his class are now the most valuable players in modern football!

He polled well at the Brownlow!

[CureTheSane]

I don't see the greatness of Everitt or Reid that many others do here.
For me, I'd take White before either of them.
I would not be unhappy to see Grundy move on - I feel he isn't up to speed these days.
McGlynn seems to have lost a bit of the 'it' factor as well.
LRT is an anomaly to some degree as at his age a year off can make an irretrievable dent in fitness and keeping up with the rest o the team.

I'd take heath Shaw to play a year with his brother before he takes his brothers place.
I'd be interested in Chapman if the Cats dump him.
Would be a good fringe player for us for a year or two. Still has what it takes.

[mcs]

You talk about getting rid of Grundy because he 'isn't up to speed these days' and have concerns about LRT's fitness, but want to get Chapman even though he is old and has missed basically most of this season through injury?

As for white over Reid - surely White is a perfect example of why we need to be patient with Reid. Jesse debuted in 2008, yet is only just hitting his straps this season, as a 25 year old. Reid is still only 21 years old, and has basically lost most of this season to injury. Give him some time, and he will pay handsome dividends for the faith that he deserves. Surely, given the love in from so many on here for Jesse, Sammy deserves exactly the same time to develop and improve as Jesse has had?

[CureTheSane]

I never said I think we should get rid of Reid or Everitt.
Simply that I think White has shown more and in the immediate future now has value - to us, and to any other club.
A real Cinderella story or sorts I guess.

Grundy is slow and I see him as being lazy and his form is sporadic.
LRT won't be traded or delisted, now should he be, but he may not be the player he was.
Picking up Chapman is a separate issue. Depends on price and potential value for money.
He could be a Daffy or he could be a useful player for a year or two.

[Bloodthirsty]

I don't think Walsh has worked out. He doesn't have any currency either, except maybe for some euros in his pocket.

Shame to get rid of White. I think we need him. But, he obviously can't trust that the Swans put him on the park. I don't blame him for wanting to leave. If KPPs take until they are 25 to click into gear, why the hell are we letting him leave? Do we have any other KPPs in their prime aside from Tippett? No, we don't.

[bodgie]

"Grundy is slow and I see him as being lazy and his form is sporadic."

He was not as consistent this year but I really admire those guys because they have to make critical instant decisions under extreme pressure. His job was much more difficult this year because of the constantly changing personnel down back. I think sometimes he has been trying to think things through calmly but being caught out without the usual structures that our defence had been so good at. I'd be keeping him until we know where LRT is at, if Goodesy can still do a turn down back, if Everitt can keep improving and if Reid can be an effective backman.

[Triple B]

I get as frustrated as the next bloke with Grundy at times, but seriously, trade him out?? What's more, people are suggesting he's the steak knives and worth bugger all??

Crazy talk...

[BillyRayCypress]

There's a reason all these clubs have turned their back on him.

Leppitsch has worked with him his whole career, goes to Brisbane. Nek minnit, Brisbane withdraws any interest in Martin. That say's it all really...

Triple B, you're saying he's been given such a bad dose of "Leppasy" that even Leppa doesn't want him?

[jono2707]

I get as frustrated as the next bloke with Grundy at times, but seriously, trade him out?? What's more, people are suggesting he's the steak knives and worth bugger all??

Crazy talk...

Agreed - trading Grundy? Why??? By all means trade or draft for more young key defenders, and give them a few years to learn the trade, but to move Reg on would be pulling away the basic foundations of what will still be a super-strong team next year.

And we are not 'getting rid' of Jesse - he has confirmed he wants to move to another club and the Swans are not standing in the way of this. We'll see what pans out and he might still stay but he obviously has a right to see what the market thinks of him.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Grundy is one half of just about the best defence in the league that has barely missed a game in four years. And we want to trade him??

Yeah and I should be our next full forward

[ernie koala]

Grundy has been a really good FB, he has his lapses, so too does the 2013 norm smith medalist, he's been an important part of our defence no doubt....but...

Is he replaceable in the short term?....Yes.....LRT.

So if packaging him with Mummy, got us the No.1 pick ie Boyd....I'd think that would a good trade.

The other is Trading H Shaw from the Wobbles for White, then on trading Shaw and Mummy for the No.1 pick.

[BillyRayCypress]

The other is Trading H Shaw from the Wobbles for White, then on trading Shaw and Mummy for the No.1 pick.

Good suggestion. Shaw would be used to playing in front of 30 yr old Grandmothers so GWS will be a good fit.

- - - Updated - - -

Remember when trade week went for 5 days and we had two draft days. Not any more.............................

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-29/key-draft-and-free-agency-dates

Friday 4 October - Gillette AFL restricted free agency offer and unrestricted free agency period begins.

Friday 4 October by 2pm - Gillette AFL father-son bidding nominations; Academy bidding nominations lodged with AFL.

Monday 7 October 10am - father/son and Academy players bidding meeting; Gillette AFL Trade period begins.

Friday 18 October at 5pm - close of Gillette AFL restricted free agency offer and unrestricted free agency period.

Monday 21 October - Gillette AFL restricted free agency matching offer three-day period ends.

Friday 25 October at 2pm - Gillette AFL Trade period closes.

Thursday 31 October by 2pm - list lodgement (1); rookie promotion to primary list; retained second and third-year rookies; scholarship players; alternate talent player nominations.


Friday 1 November - Gillette AFL delisted player free agency period (1) begins.

Friday 8 November - international players inclusion on rookie list form; players not registered or played for 3 years rookie list form lodgement.

Wednesday 13 November - Gillette AFL delisted player free agency period (1) closes; out of contract listed AFL primary list players draft nomination form and player request for removal from list form lodged with AFL; new or expired (after 3 years) draft nomination form lodgement. Priority zone selections ? NSW/ACTand NT on the primary list of GWS Giants.

Thursday 14 November by 2pm - list lodgement (2) and TPP estimates.

Friday 15 November - Gillette AFL delisted player free agency period (2) commences.

Monday 18 November ? delisted primary list draft nomination form lodgement; non?retained rookie players draft nomination form lodgement; Gillette AFL delisted free agency period (2) concludes.

Thursday 21 November - NAB AFL Draft selection meeting (Gold Coast Convention Centre).

Friday 22 November - Gillette AFL delisted player free agency period (3) commences.

Monday 25 November - Gillette AFL delisted free agency period (3) concludes; AFL club list lodgement (3); notification of NSW and Qld pre-selected rookies, father-son pre-selected rookies, Academy pre-selected rookies, international scholarship pre-selected rookies and scholarship pre-selected rookies nominated if not selected in the pre-season draft.

Wednesday 27 November - NAB AFL Pre-Season Draft selection meeting (11am, Telstra Webex); NAB AFL Rookie Draft selection meeting (11.10am, Telstra Webex)

Monday 2 December ? final list lodgement and final TPP estimates.

[Triple B]

Grundy has been a really good FB, he has his lapses, so too does the 2013 norm smith medalist, he's been an important part of our defence no doubt....but...

Is he replaceable in the short term?....Yes.....LRT.

So if packaging him with Mummy, got us the No.1 pick ie Boyd....I'd think that would a good trade.

The other is Trading H Shaw from the Wobbles for White, then on trading Shaw and Mummy for the No.1 pick.

But Ernie, our window is NOW mate.

I've never seen Boyd play, but I've heard the same wraps on Hawkins, Watts and Patton over the past 7 or 8 years but the reality is, 18yo's just don't come in and dominate as KPP's. He may be another Carey by 2017, but we're a massive chance of winning flags in 2014, 15 and 16 before he hits his straps and trading out Mummy, Grundy and whoever won't help us achieve that...

[aardvark]

Its all over Facebook folks. Buddy is SYDNEY Bound but not Gws. Yes it looks like the Swans are the front runners. Watch Eddie's head explode.

[Zlatorog]

Its all over Facebook folks. Buddy is SYDNEY Bound but not Gws. Yes it looks like the Swans are the front runners. Watch Eddie's head explode.
Meh, this could be another "red herring". How many times some players got linked with Sydney, but nothing ever happened. I won't trust rumours like this for another week, when trading really starts. :rolleyes:

[aardvark]

All over bf as well.

[Number 43]

https://www.facebook.com/AFLSeasonAndOffSeasonNews/posts/208509169323319:0

See here for Buddy fb rumours!

[Go Swannies]

That's really funny - and funnier if true. I'm tempted to post on the FB page that I hear he's already signed but they are holding off announcing it until Tuesday. Eddie and Kennett would both explode.

[aardvark]

Could be a fun offseason after all. I wonder if the Franklin thread will out do the Tippett thread?

[Ludwig]

If Buddy goes to the Swans Eddie will need a COLAnoscopy!!

[Flying South]

But Ernie, our window is NOW mate.

You are right triple b. Our window is now. But I feel loosing grundy isn't going to change that. We have a replacement in Reid who i think will be a sensation at chb with the ball coming to him rather than marking on the lead and hands out front. LRT also tips him out because of his versatility with rucking and swinging forward. Yes Grundy has been a great player for us. And I'm not a grundy hater. I am a passionate swans supporter, I support all our players. But the team is always bigger than the individual. GWS claim they are willing to trade the number 1 pick. How often would we have the opportunity to get that. Maybe they are talking crap. But you have got to have a go. They need a ruckman and a defender. We have a both. Maybe Mumford/grundy won't do the deal and I wouldn't offer more than that. I'm just throwing up options. We don't have to take Boyd. Maybe we on trade it. Would love to get my hands on liberatore the clearance king. Just a thought. I love trade period. So many possibilities. At the end of the day, it is about trying to strengthen your weaknesses. Without weakening a strength.

[liz]

Goodsey was interviewed on Friday's AFL360 and was asked about the prospect of Buddy coming to the Swans. He said categorically that he knew it wasn't the case. Of course, he could be in the dark but I would be surprised if the Swans were even considering something like this without the senior players being in the know that if was afoot.

Goodsey could also have been lying through his teeth, but if he was, he is an excellent fibber. Seemed very genuine to me.

[ShockOfHair]

We trade out White to get another tall forward? Yeah right.

[Ludwig]

Goodsey could also have been lying through his teeth, but if he was, he is an excellent fibber. Seemed very genuine to me.

Maybe he is looking at a life after football ........in Politics.

[MightyBloods]

I was going to post this message on my initial 'Rumour - Franklin' thread but I couldn't find it. Could it be that Liam Pickering or Kinnear Beatson deleted it? :}

I'll say again as I said a few months ago, where there is smoke there is fire. I'd heard from different sources a few months ago about Franklin to the Sydney Swans. And didn't you think it interesting that Robbo on 360 asked Goodesy the question. Rumours have been floating about the Swans as a destination for a few months and have recently heated up. My take on Goodesy's response to Robbo was that he was a little surprised to be asked the question. And his answer was interesting..."I think he'll be in Sydney next year". He didn't say GWS and Adam certainly wouldnt admit to Franklin coming our way to give away any of our recruiting strategy. He had to say no to that question. If Franklin does nominate us I can tell you with certainty that most people , as with the Tippett deal, will be blindsided.

[Gezball]

I think people are overestimating what GWS would give up their no 1 pick for. It ain't happening for mummy/shaw or mummy/white. It'd need a lot more IMO. Not that I think we really need to b trading fr the no 1 pick anyway..

[Ludwig]

On one hand, I can't see any team coming up with enough goods to get GSW's number one pick. On the other hand, I can't see how anyone but GSW can afford Buddy. On the third hand, What will GSW do with Buddy, Boyd, Patton and Cameron?

Something out of the ordinary has got to happen. But what will it be?

[Melbournehammer]

Maybe he is looking at a life after football ........in Politics.

According to George, it's not a lie if you believe it.

I watched that live, and if goodes was lying id be shocked. He straight up said buddy would be in Sydney but not with the swans.

If he was privy to this I am sure he would have said something anodyne like I'm not part of the recruitment team and they make those sorts of decisions.

Just can't see it happening.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Seeing how Lake has delivered for the Hawks, makes me more keen on the idea to get Chappy for a year. Playing primarily as a forward, would arguably offer more than Jude did in this role this year, if he can stay fit. If he can't in sure well manage without him but if he is fit come September, he's a match winner.

[jono2707]

The Buddy to the Swans rumour is funny. It's gonna cause lots of COLA-induced meltdowns over the next few days. But it's pure fantasy - the AFL have already deemed he's GWS bound to try to right a few of the failures of the team's first two years of existence.

[Primmy]

Nothing on tv last night was there. But it was a beautiful day in Sydney what were all you people doing on pages and pages of trade talk!

Mind you.....its all kind of wonderful, and we can do nothing about it until.....

Buddy goes to GWS to live life in peace and quiet, and replace the power house that was whatsisname.

[neilfws]

Article in The Age reckons (1) White has asked to go and is talking to the Pies, (2) Hawks could be interested in Mumford.


With relief ruckman Jesse White having already asked Sydney to be traded and set to meet with Collingwood as early as Monday, the Swans could be keen to retain Mumford.
Should Franklin, as is expected, leave the Hawks, with the man himself declaring a decision will be made no later than Tuesday, this would open up salary cap space to help fill Mumford's needs.


Read more: Hawthorn sweating on Franklin and Bailey (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hawthorn-sweating-on-franklin-and-bailey-20130929-2umjl.html#ixzz2gJxvGOul)

Hawthorn sweating on Franklin and Bailey (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hawthorn-sweating-on-franklin-and-bailey-20130929-2umjl.html)

[Burra]

Its all over Facebook folks. Buddy is SYDNEY Bound but not Gws. Yes it looks like the Swans are the front runners. Watch Eddie's head explode.
Many on this forum have been beside themselves with grief over how we will manage all our tall forwards when Kirk arrived.... if all this is true where does Buddy fit into grand scheme of things???