James Hird "Penalty"

[Mug Punter]

Now, I know I am sometimes not the coldest can in the fridge, but can someone please tell me how Essendon Football Club paying James Hird his salary in full for doing nothing in 2014 has any sense of remorse or contrition from the Bombers? Can anyone also explain how the whole process and inquiry into the Bombers can now be viewed as anything but a negotiated sham?

And, in the ultimate insult in the public's intelligence, can anyone explain how paying James his 2014 contracted salary in full in December 2013 rather than in 2014 somehow resolves the issue of him being paid in 2014?

I do not know who to feel more contempt for in the case, the smug self-righteous Bombers and James Hird or the Boys' Club that is the AFL Commission.

I now believe that the NRL have handled this case better. Let ASADA make their final findings, let due process take its course, do not interfere and corrupt the process and deal with it appropriately when all information is on the table.

Rumour has it that the Bombers players will be issued with infraction notices in the new year and for all the sympathy I feel for the players as individuals I hope that ASADA throws the book at them. Clearly the AFL cannot dish out real punishment and the club will not accept any so it must be enforced.

It is not often that I agree with Rebecca Wilson from News Ltd but I think we are getting to the stage where nothing less than a Royal Commission will suffice.

[Ludwig]

If it were the Western Bulldogs, they would have their license revoked and given to Tasmania. The AFL doesn't want to take the hit in revenue loss, so they had to do a deal. The fact that Essendon had such confidence to stand up to the League says something about their financial power, which is probably second only to Collingwood.

I agree with you sentiments on all counts.

I think Vlad and the boys made a bit of a blunder by not getting what they thought was Hird's compensation deal down in writing, so had to back down in the end. Maybe Essendon agreed to something on a handshake knowing that they didn't have to keep their end of the bargain, since it was just an understanding, but not a contractual obligation.

[ScottH]

It's just 12 months paid (in advance) leave.

I'm going to take banned substances at my work place and see if I get the same sort of luxury.

[Mug Punter]

If it were the Western Bulldogs, they would have their license revoked and given to Tasmania. The AFL doesn't want to take the hit in revenue loss, so they had to do a deal. The fact that Essendon had such confidence to stand up to the League says something about their financial power, which is probably second only to Collingwood.

I agree with you sentiments on all counts.

I think Vlad and the boys made a bit of a blunder by not getting what they thought was Hird's compensation deal down in writing, so had to back down in the end. Maybe Essendon agreed to something on a handshake knowing that they didn't have to keep their end of the bargain, since it was just an understanding, but not a contractual obligation.

Don't think this issue is going to go away anytime soon

I am sure that James Hird would not have taken any penalty that would have affected his contractual earning capacity. Hellloooo, most managers would have been summarily dismissed for gross misconduct had they exposed their employees to the same workplace dangers as Mr Hird.

I genuinely this that James Hird feels as though he is a genuine victim here and that the suffering to his reputation is more offset by the free $1.2M. With the support of his sycophantic Essendon colleagues and insipid wife.

The truth needs to come out. John Fahey has hit the nail on the head by asking why WorkSafe has not been involved given that 4,000 plus injections have been given to employees, none of which can be substantiated and many of which were not designed for human consumption.

I have a feeling that the recent goings on will have strengthened any resolve by ASADA and WADA to get some convictions for this. The AFL and Bombers have treated them with complete disrespect and I hope they will finally grow a huge pair

[CureTheSane]

Are ASADA and WADA likely now to impose convictions on non players?
Or do they just look at players who have done the wrong thing for whatsoever reason?

It's pretty clear that the Bombers and Hird have completely exploited the AFL and also that the AFL have allowed them to do that to some degree.
Having the mess 'go away' ASAP has obviously bitten the AFL in the but big time.

It is also my opinion that some other clubs would have been treated much more severely and decisively than Essendon have.

Not sure about Hird's wife being 'insipid'.
do you know her personallY?

[Mug Punter]

Insipid - not interesting or exciting : dull or boring. Yes, I find the dutiful society wife and victim routine outside their Toorak mansion (after her hubby had been paid $1.2m as a reward for endangering the health of young men) quite predictable and very tiresome. Especially when her husband smugly refuses to talk to anyone. Just my view of course.

I believe that ASADA will be issuing the infraction notices to players not officials. The Bombers and the AFL are as bad as each other in this case. The Bombers for thinking they are above the law and the AFL for thinking they could make the problem go away. I assume that any goodwill between the AFL and ASADA is now completely eroded and that platers will be prosecuted under the full extent of their powers. Which is a shame as I believe the players are largely victims here but someone needs to cop a real punishment out of this. Then, when the players are charged there will an inevitable and justifiable case (possibly a class action) against the club for negligence which could be enormous - loss of earnings huge given that some players could have their careers ended by Hird and co and also damages for pain and suffering.

I wonder if James Hird has once, just once, asked himself how he would feel if he was one of the players involved rather than worrying about himself and his "reputation".

I actually think this case is not even halfway over yet...

The only victory for the AFL so far is stopping the Golden Boy from attending the club Xmas party yesterday....

[Mug Punter]

Insipid - not interesting or exciting : dull or boring. Yes, I find the dutiful society wife and victim routine outside their Toorak mansion (after her hubby had been paid $1.2m as a reward for endangering the health of young men) quite predictable and very tiresome. Especially when her husband smugly refuses to talk to anyone. Just my view of course.

I believe that ASADA will be issuing the infraction notices to players not officials. The Bombers and the AFL are as bad as each other in this case. The Bombers for thinking they are above the law and the AFL for thinking they could make the problem go away. I assume that any goodwill between the AFL and ASADA is now completely eroded and that platers will be prosecuted under the full extent of their powers. Which is a shame as I believe the players are largely victims here but someone needs to cop a real punishment out of this. Then, when the players are charged there will an inevitable and justifiable case (possibly a class action) against the club for negligence which could be enormous - loss of earnings huge given that some players could have their careers ended by Hird and co and also damages for pain and suffering.

I wonder if James Hird has once, just once, asked himself how he would feel if he was one of the players involved rather than worrying about himself and his "reputation".

I actually think this case is not even halfway over yet...

The only victory for the AFL so far is stopping the Golden Boy from attending the club Xmas party yesterday....

My prediction is that the truth will come out here but it will only be when the Bombers are sued by the playing group members banned by ASADA.

Surely a Royal Commission is in order if all parties insist on the truth being hidden behind confidentiality agreements and legal settlements

[SPC]

If it were the Western Bulldogs, they would have their license revoked and given to Tasmania. The AFL doesn't want to take the hit in revenue loss, so they had to do a deal. The fact that Essendon had such confidence to stand up to the League says something about their financial power, which is probably second only to Collingwood.

I agree with you sentiments on all counts.

I think Vlad and the boys made a bit of a blunder by not getting what they thought was Hird's compensation deal down in writing, so had to back down in the end. Maybe Essendon agreed to something on a handshake knowing that they didn't have to keep their end of the bargain, since it was just an understanding, but not a contractual obligation.

Vlad and the AFL have been on the backfoot with this issue from the very first moments, when Vlad tipped off Essendon that they were the ones in trouble and they needed to 'self report' to get in front of the story so the AFL could bury the problem (as usual). Hird has had the upper hand since that point, because everytime Vlad threatens him, Hird calls Vlads bluff and is more than happy to go to court, where Julian Burnside is itching to get Vlad into the witness box.

With all of the huff and puff last week from Vlad about holding the Bombers money, taking them back to the commission, etc, Burnside comes out in the morning and says lets get to court and see what happens when we get you in the box - by that evening we have the most embarrassing and farcical backdown I can remember from the AFL. Imagine even writing the statement out to say Hird will be paid his full 2014 salary before the end of 2013 so that he wont be paid in 2014. How can Vlad survive this? - the wheels are really falling off now. His flat track bully routine with all who question him is finally being seen for what it is and he is uncomfortable in the spotlight when not on solid ground.

[Ludwig]

This is looking like a classical 'Prisoners' Dilemma'. Both Essendon and the AFL started out wanting to cooperate to try to reduce the total penalties to be inflicted. But now that things are falling apart, and especially some parties have taken heavier hits than others, the parties have decided to 'defect.' Now surely the penalties will be greater for all concerned when everything is done and dusted.

[Mug Punter]

Vlad and the AFL have been on the backfoot with this issue from the very first moments, when Vlad tipped off Essendon that they were the ones in trouble and they needed to 'self report' to get in front of the story so the AFL could bury the problem (as usual). Hird has had the upper hand since that point, because everytime Vlad threatens him, Hird calls Vlads bluff and is more than happy to go to court, where Julian Burnside is itching to get Vlad into the witness box.

With all of the huff and puff last week from Vlad about holding the Bombers money, taking them back to the commission, etc, Burnside comes out in the morning and says lets get to court and see what happens when we get you in the box - by that evening we have the most embarrassing and farcical backdown I can remember from the AFL. Imagine even writing the statement out to say Hird will be paid his full 2014 salary before the end of 2013 so that he wont be paid in 2014. How can Vlad survive this? - the wheels are really falling off now. His flat track bully routine with all who question him is finally being seen for what it is and he is uncomfortable in the spotlight when not on solid ground.

I am not sure Demetriou will lose his job over this. I imagine he would take a lot of people down with him and I am not sure the urbane polo playing public schoolboy is clean either.

I think the AFL would be embarrassed about the truth coming out but I'm not sure if that is a hanging offence in itself yet.

Personally I think it comes down to this - if ASADA lay significant charges on the Bombers with massive penalties on players and the lawsuits start flying then I think the blow torch on the golden boy will be intense and I think the payback from Head Office will be intense and vicous in its revenge. Significant charges will surely render Hird's position as being untenable as his only card is that no ASADA charges have been laid, nothwithstanding that the investigation is not complete.

If the Bombers escape charges then I think Demetriou will be under intense pressure

C'mon ASADA, grow a pair and do your job!!!!!

[Mug Punter]

This is looking like a classical 'Prisoners' Dilemma'. Both Essendon and the AFL started out wanting to cooperate to try to reduce the total penalties to be inflicted. But now that things are falling apart, and especially some parties have taken heavier hits than others, the parties have decided to 'defect.' Now surely the penalties will be greater for all concerned when everything is done and dusted.

I just do not understand how this has come to pass. Surely Demetriou should have given ASADA the AFL's full support with it's investigation and come out with a joint press statement to that effect as soon as ASADA contacted them with its concerns.

Clearly there has been an error of judgement that effectively gives Hird something over Demtriou and the Commission in respect of how they handled the case in its early stages. If there isn't then why are the AFL being bullied by this bloke and why are they so scared to go to court. On any level the AFL penalties handed down for governance issues were fair and reasonable, except for Mr Hird getting his full salary.

Just hoping this goes the full distance now. As I have said before, no infraction notices on players and Hird will continue to be his smug arrogant self, you just know that he knows something that he thinks will stop the trusth coming out. I suspect it is due to the reasons Mr Dank is not speaking but it is quite amazing what the threat of prison will do for a man. Contempt of court is not a minor charge and I believe that ASADA's new powers, not yet tested, will give them pretty strong powers to prosecute Mr Dank if he does not tell the truth