ROK?

[PerthSwannie]

What`s the story with ROK? Out of the game. I heard on the radio there may be some personality clashes going on. Any info?:hmmm

[CureTheSane]

2014 round 1 team vs GWS - Page 6 (http://www.redandwhiteonline.com/forum/showthread.php/37550-2014-round-1-team-vs-GWS/page6)
ROK comes in at comment 106 and goes on for the next 3 pages
Check the Swans site for all the official statements on the matter :)

[erica]

James Dampney ?on Twitter: And there's a huge out, with @kjack_15 missing for @sydneyswans. Pretty handy replacement, sub @okeeferyan. Final teams shortly

[Auntie.Gerald]

funny thing is rok will now be motm tonight !!!!!

[bloodsbigot]

I would have liked to have seen how we went without Ryan. Shame.

[Dosser]

Um... to present a titillating conspiracy theory, there are several people in the media who are adamant that there is an uncharacteristic amount of unrest in the Swans camp over Buddy's recruitment. Judging by some of the veiled comments on the Swans website and Horse's comments about "best for the team", etc, I wonder if ROK has been a little unsettled and outspoken in his views on this?

[liz]

Um... to present a titillating conspiracy theory, there are several people in the media who are adamant that there is an uncharacteristic amount of unrest in the Swans camp over Buddy's recruitment. Judging by some of the veiled comments on the Swans website and Horse's comments about "best for the team", etc, I wonder if ROK has been a little unsettled and outspoken in his views on this?

He's out of contract this year. He's already announced he thinks he's far from done, and will be looking to play on next year. He's been on decent coin for most of his career (with the Melbourne "go home" factor). It's highly possible that he's either been told that the Swans don't have room for him next year, or if they do, it will be on significantly reduced money.

[MightyBloods]

He's out of contract this year. He's already announced he thinks he's far from done, and will be looking to play on next year. He's been on decent coin for most of his career (with the Melbourne "go home" factor). It's highly possible that he's either been told that the Swans don't have room for him next year, or if they do, it will be on significantly reduced money.

It smells of the Geelong/Chapman fallout. The club telling a long-standing and successful player that he will have less time in midfield and on the ground to bring younger players through. It certainly is ROK's last year and I wont be surprised if he decides to play on another year at another club. If it ends up that way it will be a shame.

My view is that I started seeing ROK move in slow motion in the second half of last year. I saw him filling more of a Bolton role up forward this year. I'd have him ahead of McGlynn but clearly the coaching staff value McGlynn. I'm not as sold on him with his disposal weakness. Interestingly ROK sought a transfer some years ago as he wanted more midfield time (Hawks and Blues were very interested). Probably less midfield time irks ROK again.

[Matt80]

It smells of the Geelong/Chapman fallout. The club telling a long-standing and successful player that he will have less time in midfield and on the ground to bring younger players through. It certainly is ROK's last year and I wont be surprised if he decides to play on another year at another club. If it ends up that way it will be a shame.

My view is that I started seeing ROK move in slow motion in the second half of last year. I saw him filling more of a Bolton role up forward this year. I'd have him ahead of McGlynn but clearly the coaching staff value McGlynn. I'm not as sold on him with his disposal weakness. Interestingly ROK sought a transfer some years ago as he wanted more midfield time (Hawks and Blues were very interested). Probably less midfield time irks ROK again.

I don't buy that theory of the club owing him time in the midfield, because he did not go to the Hawks at the end of 2008! That over five years ago!

I think ROK will end up with the Demons in 2015. Paul Roos will value his ability in tight midfield contests! His professionalism will also set the right example!

[Ludwig]

Us fans like to see our champions go out in style. But footy has become a brutal business with no room for sentiment. We wouldn't want to teach our kids that winning is everything, but that's the kind of lesson that footy dishes up. And in a strange paradox, it's the fans that demand a win at all cost approach to footy.

There's already a lot of anti-Bucks sentiment with the Pies' fans, which will only increase if they lose to us in 2 weeks. Just wait, if we start 0-2 there will be plenty of posters calling for the Horse's head. We are already questioning the game plan. So what choice does he have except to be as brutal as necessary to win a game, all feelings aside.

[Panttz]

Or maybe Horse was actually telling the truth when he said there was no clear matchups for him? Ryan needs to play on a similar body to him and GWS does not have anyone like him. They are all 10kg lighter and half a second quicker. In two weeks time when he plays on Swan and keeps him to 12 possessions you will all see his usefulness to this side.

[liz]

Or maybe Horse was actually telling the truth when he said there was no clear matchups for him? Ryan needs to play on a similar body to him and GWS does not have anyone like him. They are all 10kg lighter and half a second quicker. In two weeks time when he plays on Swan and keeps him to 12 possessions you will all see his usefulness to this side.

Agree in theory, though not on the match-up. Swan is pretty quick - not Jetta quick but a fair bit quicker than ROK. Ball, or even Pendlebury are more ROK's speed.

[liz]

Just wait, if we start 0-2 there will be plenty of posters calling for the Horse's head. We are already questioning the game plan. So what choice does he have except to be as brutal as necessary to win a game, all feelings aside.

You may see that, but they'll be idiots. Longmire is a premiership coach for a start, something Bucks isn't. And Longmire has shown that he knows the team needs to change and evolve. His rationale for going after Tippett and then Buddy is that he felt that the Swans played at their best to win the 2012 premiership, and even then relied on the Hawks missing a few shots. Whether Tippett or Buddy are the right solutions, only time will tell but no-one can accuse Longmire of standing still, resting on his laurels.

[Matt80]

You may see that, but they'll be idiots. Longmire is a premiership coach for a start, something Bucks isn't. And Longmire has shown that he knows the team needs to change and evolve. His rationale for going after Tippett and then Buddy is that he felt that the Swans played at their best to win the 2012 premiership, and even then relied on the Hawks missing a few shots. Whether Tippett or Buddy are the right solutions, only time will tell but no-one can accuse Longmire of standing still, resting on his laurels.

Say what you want about senior coaches, there is no safer senior coach in the land than Buckley! There would be an Emergency AGM and replacement of the whole Collingwood board before Buckley was removed as coach! Maquare would never let it happen!

[Ludwig]

You may see that, but they'll be idiots. Longmire is a premiership coach for a start, something Bucks isn't. And Longmire has shown that he knows the team needs to change and evolve. His rationale for going after Tippett and then Buddy is that he felt that the Swans played at their best to win the 2012 premiership, and even then relied on the Hawks missing a few shots. Whether Tippett or Buddy are the right solutions, only time will tell but no-one can accuse Longmire of standing still, resting on his laurels.

I agree with you. But you know how the fans and journos get when a highly touted team under-performs, regardless of past success. Look what happened to Worsfold last year.

[ugg]

The reason according to this article is that he had a 'below-par pre-season'. That's really hard to fathom given how fastidious he has been with his training and preparation throughout his career.

O'Keefe slips down Swans' pecking order - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-03-17/rok-slips-down-order)

[satchmopugdog]

Agree in theory, though not on the match-up. Swan is pretty quick - not Jetta quick but a fair bit quicker than ROK. Ball, or even Pendlebury are more ROK's speed.

Pendlebury looks slow but hardly anyone can lay a hand on him....his brain is quick, his hands are quick and his movement is sooo balanced he moves quicker than he appears...my favourite player to watch now Andrew McLeod has gone.

[barry]

Roks year in 2012 won us a flag.

Now his age is starting to take its toll, he ia exposing our midfield as bit. This is the real concern for me.

[The Big Cat]

I'm not saying this is the case with ROK, but the end doesn't come slowly. It comes like a thief in the night and bang, you can't go with them any more. Look at Kennelly and Kirk. Bolts was gone at the end of last year whereas earlier in the year he looked like he had another season or two left in him. A friend of mine was a VFL captain and he suddenly knew he was gone. He didn't slowly lose his closing speed at full back, he lost it over a few weeks and he knew his time was up. It doesn't matter how fit you are or how hard you work or how you watch your diet - the physical attributes that made you a good player have already been taken beyond their norm by the great training etc, but when the body is modified by age, things start to deteriorate. I thought Plugger and Carey could play for ever because of their strength and talents, but they both went downhill so fast. (admittedly after a year off)

[ernie koala]

I don't get all the fuss.

1) His form in the pre season games was poor.

2) He is one of our slowest players.

Horse has long preached...SPREAD...As his major tactic from stoppages.

We already have a relatively slow Kennedy, having 2 slow mids will get exposed by most teams.

I agree with Matt80, I reckon he'll be off to the Demons next year to see out his career...I think that would be a good move for all concerned.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Geez ! Bloody quick to write off a champion after 1 round of footy! Reckon he would have done a better job than many of his team mates if given the chance the other night.

[annew]

Geez ! Bloody quick to write off a champion after 1 round of footy! Reckon he would have done a better job than many of his team mates if given the chance the other night.

I agree, give ROK a chance it is only round 1 and just maybe we were a bit complacent at the weekend.

[Matt80]

I don't get all the fuss.

1) His form in the pre season games was poor.

2) He is one of our slowest players.

Horse has long preached...SPREAD...As his major tactic from stoppages.

We already have a relatively slow Kennedy, having 2 slow mids will get exposed by most teams.

I agree with Matt80, I reckon he'll be off to the Demons next year to see out his career...I think that would be a good move for all concerned.

I do think he will be off to the Demons next year. Thanks for backing me up!

I think he may be an outside chance to be the next senior coach at Melbourne after Paul Roos! He will have one year as playing assistant at Melbourne helping and protecting the young Midfielders. He will then move to senior assistant at Melbourne in 2016. Then once Paul Roos completes his three year contract he will be senior coach of Melbourne in 2017.

I think his professionalism, his experience of a winning culture and his optimism to always find ways to win against more powerful opponents will make him a great senior coach!

[goods78]

I do think he will be off to the Demons next year. Thanks for backing me up!

I think he may be an outside chance to be the next senior coach at Melbourne after Paul Roos! He will have one year as playing assistant at Melbourne helping and protecting the young Midfielders. He will then move to senior assistant at Melbourne in 2016. Then once Paul Roos completes his three year contract he will be senior coach of Melbourne in 2017.

I think his professionalism, his experience of a winning culture and his optimism to always find ways to win against more powerful opponents will make him a great senior coach!

That is certainly interesting Matt80 and I think you may be on the money with Demon's move.

I could certainly see him as an assistant coach, but do you think he has what it takes to be a senior coach?

[ernie koala]

Geez ! Bloody quick to write off a champion after 1 round of footy! Reckon he would have done a better job than many of his team mates if given the chance the other night.

I'm certainly not writing him off...But given his pre season form, and lack of pace, I can see why he wasn't selected in the 22.

No doubt, as the season roles on, he will play a significant role in the senior... But right now, with no midfield injuries and Horse trying out some new combinations, there isn't a spot for him.

Personally I'd like to see him in a forward pocket, tackling his heart out and kicking a goal or 2 a game...Lets not forget he made his name as a forward.

[0918330512]

I do think he will be off to the Demons next year.


Given your predictions on Bird, McGlynn & Smith all returning to Melbourne, looks like ROK could be up for a 1-2 year contract extension with us soon ...

[DamY]

I do think he will be off to the Demons next year. Thanks for backing me up!

I think he may be an outside chance to be the next senior coach at Melbourne after Paul Roos! He will have one year as playing assistant at Melbourne helping and protecting the young Midfielders. He will then move to senior assistant at Melbourne in 2016. Then once Paul Roos completes his three year contract he will be senior coach of Melbourne in 2017.

I think his professionalism, his experience of a winning culture and his optimism to always find ways to win against more powerful opponents will make him a great senior coach!

There was mention of them wanting the assistant coach to work with Roos during the transition and I just don't think he has enough experience just yet to be taking over a senior role within 3 years. Demons have had way too much change in the senior coach role, I think they'll want someone internally for a few years first and I think it would probably be an existing assistant coach that joins in the near future.

[Matt80]

That is certainly interesting Matt80 and I think you may be on the money with Demon's move.

I could certainly see him as an assistant coach, but do you think he has what it takes to be a senior coach?

I think he has all the great qualities of a Senior Coach! He is dedicated, highly professional, would have no problems working the 80 hours plus weeks, he has played in all areas of the ground, is intelligent, from a winning culture and has playerd

[Matt80]

Given your predictions on Bird, McGlynn & Smith all returning to Melbourne, looks like ROK could be up for a 1-2 year contract extension with us soon ...

At the end of last season there was speculation that Nick Smith was investigation Melbourne clubs! I thought Ben McGlynn might find Midfield opportunities more scarce with B.Jack, L. Perris, H. Cunningham coming through. I got Craig Bird totally wrong.

I don't think that ROK going to get a 1-2 year contract extension, based on where he is currently sitting at the Swans, and is 34 years of age at the start of 2014! I think he will join Paul Roos as a free agent and have an playing - assisting coaching role like a Luke Power at GWS.

[Plugger46]

He'll play plenty of footy when the whips are cracking. He's never been overly quick, it's just about getting the right balance in the line-up.

[The Big Cat]

He's a finals player suited to the hurly burly. That's what they want him fresh for.

[Plugger46]

He's a finals player suited to the hurly burly. That's what they want him fresh for.

Correct. Due to injuries in other areas of the ground, our midfield barely had a rest last year.

[Blood Tunnel]

At the end of last season there was speculation that Nick Smith was investigation Melbourne clubs! I thought Ben McGlynn might find Midfield opportunities more scarce with B.Jack, L. Perris, H. Cunningham coming through. I got Craig Bird totally wrong.

I don't think that ROK going to get a 1-2 year contract extension, based on where he is currently sitting at the Swans, and is 34 years of age at the start of 2014! I think he will join Paul Roos as a free agent and have an playing - assisting coaching role like a Luke Power at GWS.

I've thought along similar lines, but my theory on the whole matter revolves around GWS. It's no secret that they are after revenge for Buddy. They got into Mummy early & Jed Lamb. They have hit our uncontracted players & will continue to do so.
ROK indicated in an article a few weeks ago that he wanted to play on a few more years. He said he didn't consider age an issue. That won't happen at our club unless it's fits in with our plans & for a minimal amount that fits into our salary cap. In other words he purely plays for another chance at success, much like Jude last year.
However if GWS come along & say he is the fittest 34 YO in the comp, he is a hard in & under player, never mind his lack of pace. We have plenty outside pace to cover that. We'll give you a 2 years contract Rhino for 500K in total. You don't have to move home.
So Rhino has to think long & hard about it. I pride myself on my fitness. This is what I do best. Loyalty? Well I stayed after trying to get back to Melbourne. I've given good service but the Swans will only give me one year with no guarantee I will play midfield. The very reason I stayed a Swan. Rhino is a free agent so we would get nothing for him. Another feather in the GWS cap. If he goes to Melbourne he wouldn't see more than 150K & to pack up & move the family for that, it just isn't worth it.
IMO GWS are at play here & perhaps Horse & some other players have caught onto it. For what other reason would he be kept out of the senior team. That just smacked of some sort of punishment IMO. Much like when we were all scratching our heads as to why a fit Jed Lamb wasn't given a game in the finals, even when we took to the field with half the team crippled. We soon found out he accepted an offer from GWS to move.
I wouldn't blame Rhino if he jumped at that chance. Loyalty can only go so far. If he can stretch his career out another two years on reasonable coin, I wouldn't blame him.

Yeah I know........too much time on my hands. But Rhino not being named in the original team the other night? I couldn't see Horse doing that for any other reason other than some sort punishment.

[tasmania60]

totally agree Roos chasing leaders in a team of young boys !

[mcs]

After watching the game the other night, I can see why ROK was left out against GWS. They absolutely run us off the legs in the 3rd and 4th term. Possibly helped by the extra long 1st quarter break, but we got done by legspeed, something ROK does not have much of anymore. I can understand, if KJ was fit, why they were prepared to leave out ROK>

[Matt80]

I've thought along similar lines, but my theory on the whole matter revolves around GWS. It's no secret that they are after revenge for Buddy. They got into Mummy early & Jed Lamb. They have hit our uncontracted players & will continue to do so.
ROK indicated in an article a few weeks ago that he wanted to play on a few more years. He said he didn't consider age an issue. That won't happen at our club unless it's fits in with our plans & for a minimal amount that fits into our salary cap. In other words he purely plays for another chance at success, much like Jude last year.
However if GWS come along & say he is the fittest 34 YO in the comp, he is a hard in & under player, never mind his lack of pace. We have plenty outside pace to cover that. We'll give you a 2 years contract Rhino for 500K in total. You don't have to move home.
So Rhino has to think long & hard about it. I pride myself on my fitness. This is what I do best. Loyalty? Well I stayed after trying to get back to Melbourne. I've given good service but the Swans will only give me one year with no guarantee I will play midfield. The very reason I stayed a Swan. Rhino is a free agent so we would get nothing for him. Another feather in the GWS cap. If he goes to Melbourne he wouldn't see more than 150K & to pack up & move the family for that, it just isn't worth it.
IMO GWS are at play here & perhaps Horse & some other players have caught onto it. For what other reason would he be kept out of the senior team. That just smacked of some sort of punishment IMO. Much like when we were all scratching our heads as to why a fit Jed Lamb wasn't given a game in the finals, even when we took to the field with half the team crippled. We soon found out he accepted an offer from GWS to move.
I wouldn't blame Rhino if he jumped at that chance. Loyalty can only go so far. If he can stretch his career out another two years on reasonable coin, I wouldn't blame him.

Yeah I know........too much time on my hands. But Rhino not being named in the original team the other night? I couldn't see Horse doing that for any other reason other than some sort punishment.


Not sure the GWS would be looking to add another hard body in 2015. The GWS players would be ripe after a four preseasons and they would be ready to fly in 2015.

I agree with your sentiments about the GWS - Swans rivalry. I think if GWS beat the Swans every year their season would be a success regardless of other results.

As I said earlier I believe Paul Roos would value someone of the calibre of ROK in a playing ? assistant coaching role in 2015.

If ROK is not getting a regular senior game at the later home and away point of the year, I would think that he would announce his retirement from the Swans. I don?t think he would give the Swans management the pleasure of delisting him from the list (like what happened to Paul Chapman at Geelong).

He would then go on a family holiday and turn up next to Paul Roos in a Demons jersey at the start of trade week. He would be a very valuable addition to the Demons.

I hope for ROK that he can get back regularly into the team and emulate his form from late 2012.

[Dosser]

On SEN today, KB was trying to stir up some trouble by asking the resident journo if ROK was left out because of unrest at the club. The journo's response was simply that during pre-season, ROK was so far behind his teammates in pace that they started to have a bit of fun at his expense. When the end comes, it comes quickly, and that is why he wasnt in our team. No conspiracy theory, no unrest - he simply didnt have the pace.

[Xie Shan]

Ah, the good ol' Occam's Razor. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one. It is a shame because he is a champion of our club, one of a select few who are dual premiership players, and will be remembered as our first ever Norm Smith Medallist, but even champions have to call time at some point. Even Jude knew when to go out.

[annew]

The latest rumour mill is that O'Keefe and Franklin had a heated argument last Thursday at training and that all is not well at the Swans. Dean Moore was on 3AW and categorically denied it, said he rang Ryan and Ryan just laughed. Of course the commentators said where there is smoke there is fire and that there are lot of unSydneylike things coming out. Maybe that's true but I firmly believe that in the past there would have been things that happened, arguments etc but until Buddy's arrival we were insignificant in the AFL media, except for Hall's brain fade of course.

[ShockOfHair]

So true. Because of Buddy we're under a lot more 'scrutiny', if that's the right word for the attentions of the lazy and cretinous Melbourne media bubble.

[Meg]

I think this is ridiculous. There was evident genuine delight and support for Franklin as the players surrounded him when he kicked that goal on Saturday. Macca said in an interview before the match that the players don't care who earns what - all they care is that players buy into what the Swans are aiming to do and that Franklin has done that.

If ROK had blown GWS apart in the last quarter there might be reason to be suspicious there was more than form behind his omission from the first team chosen. But he didn't. Why should we doubt what Longmire said? ROK got pushed out by a younger group for the first match. In announcing the team Longmire went to great length to say he expected ROK to be a big contributor over the year on a match-up basis.

These commentators are just looking for a sensational headline.

[Matt80]

Ah, the good ol' Occam's Razor. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one. It is a shame because he is a champion of our club, one of a select few who are dual premiership players, and will be remembered as our first ever Norm Smith Medallist, but even champions have to call time at some point. Even Jude knew when to go out.

ROK would also be perturbed about the great treatment that the club offered Jude Bolton in 2013, and would feel that he was owed the same curtesy!

After the 2012 Grand Final, John Longmire said that he did not know if Jude Bolton would go on! He was 32 and had sustained some damage to his knee during the 2012 season. Bolton who was out of contract, took some time to make his decision. He came back and said he wanted to play on! The club then organised a contract to take him through 2013. It was the least that could have been done for a two time premiership hero and club stalwart. He then got to play most senior games in 2013 in a specially designed forward role! He was never dropped!

ROK has seen what happened and wondered why could something not be worked out for me in 2014, like it was for Jude in 2013! Instead he has to fight his way back into the side!

[Meg]

I meant to add above - and there haas been a line of players re-signing contracts since they have known about Franklin's deal. That doesn't sound to me that there is something wrong in the club. In McGlynn's interview following his re-signing he made a point of saying how well he had been treated by the Swans ever since he made the move from Hawthorn. He looked genuinely delighted.

The team played poorly on Saturday. It's hardly the first time and unfortunately probably not the last time. I'm sure that's what the coaches and the players are now concentrating on.

[liz]

ROK would also be perturbed about the great treatment that the club offered Jude Bolton in 2013, and would feel that he was owed the same curtesy!

After the 2012 Grand Final, John Longmire said that he did not know if Jude Bolton would go on! He was 32 and had sustained some damage to his knee during the 2012 season. Bolton who was out of contract, took some time to make his decision. He came back and said he wanted to play on! The club then organised a contract to take him through 2013. It was the least that could have been done for a two time premiership hero and club stalwart. He then got to play most senior games in 2013 in a specially designed forward role! He was never dropped!

ROK has seen what happened and wondered why could something not be worked out for me in 2014, like it was for Jude in 2013! Instead he has to fight his way back into the side!

Sorry, but little of that makes any sense. ROK was in contract at the end of 2013 (hence he is still on the list), so there was no need to work out a one year deal for him. There may or may not be at the end of 2014, depending on how the season unfolds.

Why can we not presume that Jude was picked in the team each week on merit. There was a clear role for him to play, and one he played pretty well throughout the year. There was no-one in the reserves capable of playing the role that he was keeping out of the team as a favour to him.

Why can we not presume that Longmire and the rest of his coaching panel will also pick the 2014 each week on merit. That may or may not include ROK each week. What exactly needs to be "worked out" for ROK?

[liz]

The latest rumour mill is that O'Keefe and Franklin had a heated argument last Thursday at training and that all is not well at the Swans. Dean Moore was on 3AW and categorically denied it, said he rang Ryan and Ryan just laughed. Of course the commentators said where there is smoke there is fire and that there are lot of unSydneylike things coming out. Maybe that's true but I firmly believe that in the past there would have been things that happened, arguments etc but until Buddy's arrival we were insignificant in the AFL media, except for Hall's brain fade of course.

Sadly it is part of the human condition that we (or some of us) like to see others fail. Discord makes better stories than harmony. Clubs and the media see us as a contender, and some are irritated that the club has broken the rules by staying relatively competitive over a fair stretch of years. Didn't the Swans realise it was their duty to languish down the bottom of the ladder for a few years to give richly deserving clubs like Carlton and Richmond their shot at success? Two premierships in less than a decade was certainly one too many; for some it was two too many. When will these interstate clubs realise they are only there to pad out the ladder so the venerable Victorian teams can look down from an even greater height when it's their turn at the top of the ladder? Between Brisbane, Port and West Coast (and maybe soon Freo and then GC and GWS) we really haven't understood how things are meant to work.

I'd be disappointed if players at the club didn't get into heated arguments from time to time. They pride themselves on plain talking, on calling out a mate who isn't doing "the team thing". They are (we hope) driven to succeed. There have to be disagreements now and again - hopefully constructive but I doubt they are all the time, at least not at first.

[Matt80]

Sorry, but little of that makes any sense. ROK was in contract at the end of 2013 (hence he is still on the list), so there was no need to work out a one year deal for him. There may or may not be at the end of 2014, depending on how the season unfolds.

Why can we not presume that Jude was picked in the team each week on merit. There was a clear role for him to play, and one he played pretty well throughout the year. There was no-one in the reserves capable of playing the role that he was keeping out of the team as a favour to him.

Why can we not presume that Longmire and the rest of his coaching panel will also pick the 2014 each week on merit. That may or may not include ROK each week. What exactly needs to be "worked out" for ROK?

I can see why the coaching panel made their decision on ROK, but I think Jude had a dignified finish to his Swans career! Arguments can be made about the relative performance and positional requirements of Jude in 2013 and ROK in 2014, but I hope ROK has an equally dignified finish as Jude when the time comes!

[liz]

I do too. ROK has been one of my favourite players for a long time. I hope he has a great season. But I have no expectations that the club will pick him on sentiment rather than merit. It has to be up to him and the club to find a way to use him that will be of benefit to the club.

Not getting selected in the original side for round 1 doesn't necessarily spell the end. Brad Sewell (who, as you'd remember, was right up there with ROK as one of the best players in the 2012 grand final and who also shares ROK's lack of pace) was dropped for a while from Hawthorn's side last year. But he worked his way back in and picked up a premiership medal. He's also still going in 2014.

[Captain]

Get the impression that Jude was one of the best clubmen ever. Never head ROK even close to being described that.

[Melbourne_Blood]

This is classic RWO. Worse than the Melbourne media it holds in disdain, a few rational posters not withstanding. That's why we keep coming back !

[Blood Tunnel]

Sorry, but little of that makes any sense. ROK was in contract at the end of 2013 (hence he is still on the list), so there was no need to work out a one year deal for him. There may or may not be at the end of 2014, depending on how the season unfolds.

Why can we not presume that Jude was picked in the team each week on merit. There was a clear role for him to play, and one he played pretty well throughout the year. There was no-one in the reserves capable of playing the role that he was keeping out of the team as a favour to him.

Why can we not presume that Longmire and the rest of his coaching panel will also pick the 2014 each week on merit. That may or may not include ROK each week. What exactly needs to be "worked out" for ROK?


Sadly it is part of the human condition that we (or some of us) like to see others fail. Discord makes better stories than harmony. Clubs and the media see us as a contender, and some are irritated that the club has broken the rules by staying relatively competitive over a fair stretch of years. Didn't the Swans realise it was their duty to languish down the bottom of the ladder for a few years to give richly deserving clubs like Carlton and Richmond their shot at success? Two premierships in less than a decade was certainly one too many; for some it was two too many. When will these interstate clubs realise they are only there to pad out the ladder so the venerable Victorian teams can look down from an even greater height when it's their turn at the top of the ladder? Between Brisbane, Port and West Coast (and maybe soon Freo and then GC and GWS) we really haven't understood how things are meant to work.

I'd be disappointed if players at the club didn't get into heated arguments from time to time. They pride themselves on plain talking, on calling out a mate who isn't doing "the team thing". They are (we hope) driven to succeed. There have to be disagreements now and again - hopefully constructive but I doubt they are all the time, at least not at first.


Fantastic Liz! Very well said!

[dimelb]

Today's Age:
Ryan O'Keefe under pressure to retain his place in Sydney Swans team (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/ryan-okeefe-under-pressure-to-retain-his-place-in-sydney-swans-team-20140319-hvkey.html)

[magic.merkin]

Classic Liz.

"Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter"
/Simpsons.

[Jewels]

This is classic RWO. Worse than the Melbourne media it holds in disdain, a few rational posters not withstanding. That's why we keep coming back !

Bingo!!!!!!
Thank you Liz and Meg for your rational and well reasoned posts.

[royboy42]

[QUOTE=Jewels;635121]Bingo!!!!!!
Thank you Liz and Meg for your rational and well reasoned posts.

I love the rational and ell reasoned posts, indeed I try and emulate them sometimes (with varying effectiveness).

But "vive la difference".

I also love the ratbaggery, the wild optimism and the wild pessimism seen here; the joy, the despair; the over analysis, and the knee jerk reactions.

It all makes up the cocktail that is RWO.

But I hate vindictiveness and personal comments that creep in rarely..but then I love the mods swift reaction to those moments.

Long live RWO in its' present form.

[Matt80]

Sadly it is part of the human condition that we (or some of us) like to see others fail. Discord makes better stories than harmony. Clubs and the media see us as a contender, and some are irritated that the club has broken the rules by staying relatively competitive over a fair stretch of years. Didn't the Swans realise it was their duty to languish down the bottom of the ladder for a few years to give richly deserving clubs like Carlton and Richmond their shot at success? Two premierships in less than a decade was certainly one too many; for some it was two too many. When will these interstate clubs realise they are only there to pad out the ladder so the venerable Victorian teams can look down from an even greater height when it's their turn at the top of the ladder? Between Brisbane, Port and West Coast (and maybe soon Freo and then GC and GWS) we really haven't understood how things are meant to work.

I'd be disappointed if players at the club didn't get into heated arguments from time to time. They pride themselves on plain talking, on calling out a mate who isn't doing "the team thing". They are (we hope) driven to succeed. There have to be disagreements now and again - hopefully constructive but I doubt they are all the time, at least not at first.


[QUOTE=Jewels;635121]Bingo!!!!!!
Thank you Liz and Meg for your rational and well reasoned posts.

I love the rational and ell reasoned posts, indeed I try and emulate them sometimes (with varying effectiveness).

But "vive la difference".

I also love the ratbaggery, the wild optimism and the wild pessimism seen here; the joy, the despair; the over analysis, and the knee jerk reactions.

It all makes up the cocktail that is RWO.

But I hate vindictiveness and personal comments that creep in rarely..but then I love the mods swift reaction to those moments.

Long live RWO in its' present form.

Red and White is fantastic and I've enjoyed being part of it! People have different ideas and theories which is what makes it fun! I certainly have a couple of ideas that I enjoy posting, and now I have a few people chasing my tail ready to pull me into to line especially that person who has that phone number as there alias. My best mate is on Red and White as well and enjoys sending me text messages when I'm pulled in into line!

[ScottH]

Red and White is fantastic and I've enjoyed being part of it! People have different ideas and theories which is what makes it fun! I certainly have a couple of ideas that I enjoy posting, and now I have a few people chasing my tail ready to pull me into to line especially that person who has that phone number as there alias. My best mate is on Red and White as well and enjoys sending me text messages when I'm pulled in into line!

It's not a phone number.
You can interpret it into individual meaningful numbers.

Can you work it out?

[goods78]

It's not a phone number.
You can interpret it into individual meaningful numbers.

Can you work it out?

They should update their profile to include 12!

[ScottH]

They should update their profile to include 12!

Was mentioned 12 months ago.

[Scottee]

I am suspicious about the motives for downgrading ROKs credentials. He came into the game and got 7 possessions in one quarter which gave him the same Buddy for the whole match. There is another agenda here. Either he has not been a good clubman (which I find incredibly hard to believe) or the Buddy purchase has stretched the budget beyond keeping aging veterans(with 2015 in mind). I favour the latter and I hope I am wrong.

[aardvark]

Oh dear....

No Cookies | The Courier-Mail (http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/afl/sydney-swans-deny-rumours-of-rift-between-buddy-franklin-and-ryan-okeefe/story-fnia6oxc-1226860251528)

[Matt80]

It's not a phone number.
You can interpret it into individual meaningful numbers.

Can you work it out?

Thanks Scott! Just the point I'm eluding too! I can't believe he has not added the 12.

The reality is there would not have been a 12 without two warriors in the midfield (ROK and Pyke). With Goodes, Mumford, Richards, Bolton and late in the game Jetta struggling through injury, someone needed to step up. It was ROK and Pyke who did with some help from others! If the game was a draw we would have been flogged by 50 plus points the next week!

People this week are questioning these two great warriors! We owe a debt of gratitude to these two warriors! We love that number 12 and it would not have happened without ROK and Pyke. The least ROK deserves is not to humiliated in the reserves and forced to run laps in Moore Park to prove he has still got it! He has the capacity to come good and the club should of given him that time out of respect for giving them a 12!

[mcs]

Thanks Scott! Just the point I'm eluding too! I can't believe he has not added the 12. H

The reality is there would not have been a 12 without two warriors in the midfield (ROK and Pyke). With Goodes, Mumford, Richards, Bolton and late in the game Jetta struggling through injury, someone needed to step up. It was ROK and Pyke who did with some help from others! If the game was a draw we would have been flogged by 50 plus points the next week!

People this week are questioning these two great warriors! We owe a debt of gratitude to these two warriors! We love that number 12 and it would not have happened without ROK and Pyke. The least ROK deserves is not to humiliated in the reserves and forced to run laps in Moore Park to prove he has still got it! He has the capacity to come good and the club should of given him that time out of respect for giving them a 12!

I dont think pyke is being questioned... more the decision to play 1 true ruckman.

As for rok, if his form is poor and the coaches dont think he is in the best 22, then that's a fair enough decision in my opinion. Its up to him to show he should be in the best 22, even if that means that he runs around in the reserves.

I think we've been spoilt by a long period where our best 22, bar 1 or 2 players has been pretty obvious. I think this year, especially in the midfield, it may be a bit tougher to work out our best combo.

[Bexl]

[QUOTE=mcs;635143



I think we've been spoilt by a long period where our best 22, bar 1 or 2 players has been pretty obvious. I think this year, especially in the midfield, it may be a bit tougher to work out our best combo.[/QUOTE]

I think rather then being spoilt for choice before I thing maybe now instead.

[Auntie.Gerald]

for me if the inside work is sound then there are better outside players then ROK

but conversely if our inside work is not functioning get Pebbles back in the centre !!!

[giant]

[QUOTE=Jewels;635121]Bingo!!!!!!
Thank you Liz and Meg for your rational and well reasoned posts.

I love the rational and ell reasoned posts, indeed I try and emulate them sometimes (with varying effectiveness).

But "vive la difference".

I also love the ratbaggery, the wild optimism and the wild pessimism seen here; the joy, the despair; the over analysis, and the knee jerk reactions.

It all makes up the cocktail that is RWO.

But I hate vindictiveness and personal comments that creep in rarely..but then I love the mods swift reaction to those moments.

Long live RWO in its' present form.

Hear hear. I'm all for a bit of zany forum speculation - as long as it's clearly marked as editorial and not delivered as gospel.

[DK_]

ROK can be seen training with the red team on the 'Friday training highlights' reel. They seem to be the first 22. Don't know what to take from that.

Interestingly, there didn't seem to be a punch up with Buddy either. Melbourne media will probably now claim that Buddy was too busy with a satanic ritual or pillaging a nearby village to engage in a punch up.

[ugg]

ROK can be seen training with the red team on the 'Friday training highlights' reel. They seem to be the first 22. Don't know what to take from that.

Maybe he won this week's fight?

Edit: Also saw Nanka, Lockyer, Marsh and Towers on the red team.

[Matt80]

Andrew Hamilton from News Ltd has reported today that there were reports that the Swans tried to "pension" off over the summer.

If true, I would interpret that the Swans tried to get ROK to retire over the summer.

Liz, can a club make a player retire one year early in their contract?

If this story is true it would explain a lot about the current predicament of ROK!

[goswannies]

Andrew Hamilton from News Ltd has reported today that there were reports that the Swans tried to "pension" off over the summer.

If true, I would interpret that the Swans tried to get ROK to retire over the summer.

Liz, can a club make a player retire one year early in their contract?

If this story is true it would explain a lot about the current predicament of ROK!

A player cannot be forced to retire. They can be told that it's unlikely to get many games (so incentive based contracts can be compromised). They can be delisted (but they are still paid out their contract). They can be encouraged to retire with the sweetener of a coaching position which would offset lost pay for not fulfilling the contract.

[goods78]

Andrew Hamilton from News Ltd has reported today that there were reports that the Swans tried to "pension" off over the summer.

If true, I would interpret that the Swans tried to get ROK to retire over the summer.

Liz, can a club make a player retire one year early in their contract?

If this story is true it would explain a lot about the current predicament of ROK!

Good pick up Matt80.

I suspect the first time we will have any facts will be in the end of career autobiography!

[liz]

Andrew Hamilton from News Ltd has reported today that there were reports that the Swans tried to "pension" off over the summer.

If true, I would interpret that the Swans tried to get ROK to retire over the summer.

Liz, can a club make a player retire one year early in their contract?

If this story is true it would explain a lot about the current predicament of ROK!

The only possible way this could have any element of truth is if the club had indicated to ROK he was welcome to seek a trade at the end of last year, and that he wouldn't be an automatic choice for the senior team the following season. If ROK has designs on playing on beyond this year (as he has indicated), it could be true. If the Swans do offer him another contract next year it is likely to be on reduced money, while a club like Melbourne might value his experience and leadership higher over a two or even three year period (including 2014). But bear in mind he had just finished 5th or 6th (or was about to - can't recall the timing of the trade period vs B&F) in the best and fairest count. Does it seem likely? Possible maybe, but likely?

Ask yourself whether, if JPK went down injured at any point this season, you'd rather have ROK take his place or Harry Marsh, Brad Lloyd, or Lloyd Perris. This is a club clearly gunning for a premiership this year, next year, the year after, going by the spending spree on Franklin (and Tippett last year). It's not a club trying to clear out dead wood to get games into younger players for the sake of it.

As GS has pointed out, there is no point delisting a player of ROK's experience once lists have been finalised. His contract would still need to be paid out, and such treatment of a player who has served the club fabulously well over so many years would have to be de-stabilising on the club. Why even contemplate it?

As such, it sounds like more fanciful over-reaction to one single instance of non-selection in one game against a team of young, quick players. Was the sky caving in on Hawthorn last year when Sewell was dropped for a few games? Had he had a bust-up with Buddy? Of course not, and he remains on their 2014 list and I am sure will be a valuable player for them this season.

[DK_]

You lost me at 'News Ltd'.

[ShockOfHair]

That Andrew Hamilton story takes mindless clickbait journalism to a new level, even for News Ltd. He's already come to a verdict on the Buddy move.

[Matt80]

Good pick up Matt80.

I suspect the first time we will have any facts will be in the end of career autobiography!

ROK's autobiography would be a cracking read! I can't think of any one else who has dated a princess and won a North Smith medal!

[i'm-uninformed2]

ROK's autobiography would be a cracking read! I can't think of any one else who has dated a princess and won a North Smith medal!

Agreed. A must read. After all she's a fairly plain soul but ROK must have some good gossip on what floats her boat

[vincere]

News Limited by name, news limited by nature.

[The Big Cat]

News Limited by name, news limited by nature.

You know their motto: "If something important happens in the world, it's news to us!"

[annew]

ROK's autobiography would be a cracking read! I can't think of any one else who has dated a princess and won a North Smith medal!

What princess?...

[0918330512]

ROK's autobiography would be a cracking read! I can't think of any one else who has dated a princess and won a North Smith medal!

Nathan Buckley WAS a princess who won a Norm Smith Medal

[Nolie]

I think that ROK has been treated very shabbily here and it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I find it hard to believe that anything much can be discerned from pre-season "form" - i.e the presumption that somehow ROK has lost speed or cannot now handle the mid-bodies"" as Longmire asserted. . Surely the ultimate test is in a real game? If ROK had played three or four and his form had been poor , then, yes, sadly, he might be turned out for a spell in the ressies. But for the first game! And against GWS. Either something smelly is boiling underneath in the Swans organisation or maybe it was thought that GWS was going to be an"?asy beat"" so maybe give ROK a rest. Of course the Swans could not publicly say that was what they were doing lest they be accused of "tanking"or the opposite of that when you are winning. I am hoping it is the latter - but then as has been reported faithfully by the RWO?rs why was he listed down to play ressies?

It smacks a bit of the shabby treatment that was afforded to Paul Bevan a few years ago. Played a stunning match against Carlton I think in an early final , kicked I think three or four goals and then was summarily dumped the next week for the returning Ben McGlynn. He (Bevan) was rightly p....d off. Mighty warrior that he had been for the club. Ben McGlynn is IMO only OK and I would have a slow ROK well before I picked McGlynn.

It is all a bad vibe.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

I think we did underestimate the Giants and I believe O'Keefe's omission was nothing more than an extended rest.

If ROK had been on the ground from the first quarter we wouldn't have lost to GWS.

[Ludwig]

I think we did underestimate the Giants and I believe O'Keefe's omission was nothing more than an extended rest.

If ROK had been on the ground from the first quarter we wouldn't have lost to GWS.

Although I don't think there is a direct connection, it is far more logical to conclude that we lost because ROK came on the ground, as we were ahead of GWS in all three quarters before ROK played. Our game fell apart once ROK came on.

He actually played quite poorly, but I'm not hanging the blame for the loss on him.

[Matt80]

What princess?...

Not a princess at the time they met, but the ladies name was Mary Donaldson from Tasmania. ROK was a young unknown Swans player at the time! There are reports in News Ltd papers about this meeting!

They would both admire each other's careers fondly! Mary became a famous Princess, while ROK became king of the MCG. ROK is now in a position where his "Horse" is trying to dethrone him!

[aguy]

Not a princess at the time they met, but the ladies name was Mary Donaldson from Tasmania. ROK was a young unknown Swans player at the time! There are reports in News Ltd papers about this meeting!

They would both admire each other's careers fondly! Mary became a famous Princess, while ROK became king of the MCG. ROK is now in a position where his "Horse" is trying to dethrone him!
I don't wanna see ROK dethroned. We need him

[wolftone57]

Every player's career comes to an end. He has been a champion for us but this I think will be the last year for he, Goodes, LRT & possibly Shaw. But Shaw seems to be the most likely to play on and last season or off season I would not have said that. I think all players have flat spots and he is going through one at the moment. Maybe he can't get excited about the new season after winning 2 premierships.

[aguy]

I agree it will be goodes last year and possibly ROK last year too. I just think ROK deserves a start in the senior team and not to be written off on the perception of poor form pre season. I think at his age his pre season performance means little. I don't think his form at the end of last season deserved him to be dropped and I don't think he has to prove his value in the preseason. He is a big game player for us and deserves a full game where it really matters. I can certainly understand why he wouldn't get excited about trial games but the real stuff is on now.

Rant finished :)

[royboy42]

Most players gradually slow down and realise it's coming to an end. None , of course, want to go, and resist the coaches' suggestions. But the coach always wins.
Some players seem to lose it pretty quickly; case in point is Kennelly. He lost his pace overnight, and quickly went.
Towards the end of last season, on several occasions I thought ROK was a tad slow getting to the ball or taking off with it.
In the last intra club and then in NAB this year, his influence on the game was significantly reduced from his norm.
I was not surprised to see him as emerg for round 1.
And when he did play, I believe his performance would have left both him and the coaches disappointed.
Love to be proved wrong, but the end may be nigh.
The caveat is ,of course, that he is only about 25 games past a Norm Smith.

[liz]

I remember when people on here used to bemoan the fact (or at least, perception) of players getting games because they had credits in the bank, rather than on absolute merit. This is the first shock non-selection we have experienced for a while. We can't have it both ways. Those who think that ROK's past merited him a spot in the side, who should have made way? Many will nominate someone like Cunningham, notwithstanding the fact he brings something a little different to the side. If you're going to argue that, you can't then complain that young players who have performed well over pre-season aren't getting a fair go.

We also need to remember that the club can only pick 22 players in a side each week. So any particular player not being selected doesn't mean that they have suddenly lost the ability to play. It just means that the coaches don't consider they fit into the best, most balanced side for that week.

[Ludwig]

I remember when people on here used to bemoan the fact (or at least, perception) of players getting games because they had credits in the bank, rather than on absolute merit. This is the first shock non-selection we have experienced for a while. We can't have it both ways. Those who think that ROK's past merited him a spot in the side, who should have made way? Many will nominate someone like Cunningham, notwithstanding the fact he brings something a little different to the side. If you're going to argue that, you can't then complain that young players who have performed well over pre-season aren't getting a fair go.

We also need to remember that the club can only pick 22 players in a side each week. So any particular player not being selected doesn't mean that they have suddenly lost the ability to play. It just means that the coaches don't consider they fit into the best, most balanced side for that week.

+1

And would just add that with the pressure for success that head coaches must endure, there really isn't any room for sentimentality.

[aguy]

It's not sentimentality. I think it's all happened over the off season without any afl games to back it up. Goodsie for example is always different in the big games. I'm sure he will be scratchy if he gets back from injury but he will get games because we know what he can do when match fit.

[Captain]

I would have ROK ahead of Bird. Both are slow, but ROK finds more of the ball and has better consistency.

[Matt80]

I would have ROK ahead of Bird. Both are slow, but ROK finds more of the ball and has better consistency.


I would agree with you Captain! ROK is a better all-round player than Bird! At the similar point in their careers ROK was a star half forward flanker!

I suspect that Bird is one of those guys that is a favourite with the coaches. Bird is a definite favourite with this forum!

[ernie koala]

I would have ROK ahead of Bird. Both are slow, but ROK finds more of the ball and has better consistency.

Bird may be slow but he has excellent evasion skills, reasonable disposal, and he's a very good tagger who also gets plenty of his own touches.

ROK is an excellent tackler as an inside midfielder.. But when in possession, he pretty much just throws the pill on his boot and kicks blind over his shoulder.

He's a good overhead mark, or at least he used to be...He rarely gets the opportunity, for one on one marking, in the forward line these days.

I'd like to see him revert more to a defensive forward pocket role, though maybe his lack of pace would be a problem.

[Go Swannies]

I would agree with you Captain! ROK is a better all-round player than Bird! At the similar point in their careers ROK was a star half forward flanker!

I suspect that Bird is one of those guys that is a favourite with the coaches. Bird is a definite favourite with this forum!

TOP TEN IN 2013 BOB SKILTON MEDAL

Jarrad McVeigh 807
Kieren Jack 769
Josh Kennedy 650
Dan Hannebery 634
Ryan O?Keefe 625
Luke Parker 542
Ted Richards 483
Craig Bird 479
Nick Smith 453
Nick Malceski 443

So the coaches agree with you - but that was their order in the Top 10 last year. This year ROK wasn't in the starting 22 but Bird was. And presumably still ahead of Smith and Mal.

[Captain]

Bird may be slow but he has excellent evasion skills, reasonable disposal, and he's a very good tagger who also gets plenty of his own touches.

ROK is an excellent tackler as an inside midfielder.. But when in possession, he pretty much just throws the pill on his boot and kicks blind over his shoulder.

He's a good overhead mark, or at least he used to be...He rarely gets the opportunity, for one on one marking, in the forward line these days.

I'd like to see him revert more to a defensive forward pocket role, though maybe his lack of pace would be a problem.

I'm not having a go at Bird, just think that it is hard to have both ROK and Bird in the team. Both play that defensive midfielder/forward type role and are jostling for the same spot.

If it was up to me, ROK is a class above.

[ernie koala]

I'm not having a go at Bird, just think that it is hard to have both ROK and Bird in the team. Both play that defensive midfielder/forward type role and are jostling for the same spot.

If it was up to me, ROK is a class above.

Current form, and perhaps his age, would suggest that's in the past. Hope not, time will tell.

[rojo]

We seem to be having a messy start to the season. Goodes and KT still not right, LRT, Pyke, Shaw, Rohan and Jetts still getting back to match fitness, possibly Mitchell and Buddy too but all playing. We may be in for a few more unpleasant shocks before the team is up and running anywhere near its best. We look to be about a quarter of a season behind the teams that are flying right now but we will get there - eventually, one hopes.

I'm a sentimentalist. I think that ROK has to be allowed to get his 300 games up - another 12 games, I think. He deserves to be up there with Goodesy and Jude (as well as M O'L). As J McV is the only other player who has a possibility of reaching the 300 milestone until potentially Hanners, if he hangs around, it is a very rare achievement and ROK is so close. Even if he is past his best I am sure he can contribute as much as Jude did last year. It is just unfortunate that we are having to play a few others who are down on form, who are part of our future.

This week if LRT is out we have to play a second ruck, so that is not going to free up a spot. If Kieran comes back I would put ROK in and consider leaving out Laidler, Shaw or Rampe depending on matchups - we did manage without Shaw and Laidler last year! McV can always drop back and LRT/Derickx/? can back up there too. Apart from rotating 4 or 5 players through 21 and 22 each week, my only other suggestion is to make ROK a sort of permanent sub if he is being squeezed out in order to give up-and-coming youngsters a game.

[mcs]

What I sort of don't get with ROK is, if he is not good enough to play in midfield, why not stick him in a forward pocket like they did with Jude? He still can take a decent mark, and is a reasonable shot at goal. He has been, for most of his career, a far more accomplished mark of the ball, and a better kick for goal than Jude (although Jude in this sense definitely got better with age!)

Am I missing something with my analysis here? Arguably, he may not be in the top 22, but he would do a job up there in my opinion, and if you put him in a forward pocket, he is hardly going to get exploited for lack of pace (at least not in a damaging way). If I was an opposition coach, I would see him as a difficult match up, as he is also good when the ball is at ground level.

I really hope he makes it to 300 games - woudl be a crowning achievement for a glittering career. There aren't many other swans that can say they are dual premiership winners and norm smith medal winners and 300 gamers!

[annew]

ROK is our Chapman, give him a bit of time he will come good

[ernie koala]

What I sort of don't get with ROK is, if he is not good enough to play in midfield, why not stick him in a forward pocket like they did with Jude? He still can take a decent mark, and is a reasonable shot at goal. He has been, for most of his career, a far more accomplished mark of the ball, and a better kick for goal than Jude (although Jude in this sense definitely got better with age!)

Am I missing something with my analysis here? Arguably, he may not be in the top 22, but he would do a job up there in my opinion, and if you put him in a forward pocket, he is hardly going to get exploited for lack of pace (at least not in a damaging way). If I was an opposition coach, I would see him as a difficult match up, as he is also good when the ball is at ground level.

I really hope he makes it to 300 games - woudl be a crowning achievement for a glittering career. There aren't many other swans that can say they are dual premiership winners and norm smith medal winners and 300 gamers!

I agree, this is what I've been sprouting also....Forward pocket would seem an excellent fit for ROK, at this stage in his career.

He can mark, he can kick goals, he can tackle.... And he would be excellent around those forward 50 stoppages.

[CJK]

Perhaps he's not willing to play up in the pocket?

[Ludwig]

Perhaps he's not willing to play up in the pocket?

It's not so much what position he plays, it's that we would have to drop someone like Cunningham to play him. With KJ back, Cunningham is likely to be the sub. So if Ryan comes in, then we would have to drop Cunningham and make someone, Bird perhaps, the sub. I think is the selection dilemma.

[mcs]

Perhaps he's not willing to play up in the pocket?

Surely JL can tell him that he will play where he wants him to play!

I can see where Ludwig is coming from with his analysis, and there is most definitely a selection dilemma there and I don't think an easy answer. Swans might try and target it so that ROK gets his games to make it to 300 across the season - I have no doubt he will still get there, unless he is out of the team for an extended period (which given our recent injury woes, seems unlikely!)

[Ludwig]

ROK has been a workhorse and a tackling machine over the past few years. But guys like Mitchell, Parker and Bird, also good tackling inside players, are pushing Ryan out. The suggestion of him playing the 'Jude' forward pocket role is a good one, but the forward line is getting crowded as well. I'm sure he could go back to his previous role of running up and down the wing and do a good job, but other players may be preferable at this time. I would imagine Horse would like to give Towers a go on the wing; at 24 yo in May, it's time for him to show what he's got at senior level.

[ScottH]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Workhorse <a href="https://twitter.com/okeeferyan">@okeeferyan</a> raising the intensity at boxing today <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23GoSwans&amp;src=hash">#GoSwans</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Boxing&amp;src=hash">#Boxing</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SydneySwans&amp;src=hash">#SydneySwans</a> <a href="http://t.co/cR9HbHUct4">pic.twitter.com/cR9HbHUct4</a></p>&mdash; Christian M (@TeamChristianM) <a href="https://twitter.com/TeamChristianM/statuses/448247063491256320">March 24, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[vincere]

With all he's given to the club, we'd all love to see ROK reach 300 games on merit.

This year, it's been more than the ordinary NAB games or the 43% disposal efficiency, including two clangers and two frees against, as a sub in round one - it's been the vibe.

The coaches clearly have a different role in mind for him in 2014 and want him to do well. In January, at 33 years of age, ROK insisted he'd be the one to decide when he'll stop playing. In the end, it will be injuries, his performance at training and his attitude that will decide how often he plays again.

[Doctor]

More than ever before, you have to be superfit (tick) and you have to be able to run to play AFL football. If anyone can find a way to make it work ROK can. I want him out there against Collingwood on that narrower ground so even if he doesn't go to Perth I would hope that he plays most of the time. If this huge effort in training is a result of his omission for Round 1 then it may well be a very good thing.

[Mike_B]

So after tonight's game, what do people think? IMHO he's in big trouble now - won't play next week and could be a while before we see him back in the seniors. He looked slow tonight; we know footspeed was never his strength. But the most concerning thing for me was a lack of intensity and effort - there were a few times where he was in the forward line and just watched as Collingwood ran it out, not even bothering to make a token chase. Very un-ROK like and very unSwans like, but it's a telling sign.

[Jeffers1984]

He's finished. If he can't play in the middle, he sure as hell is useless in the forward line. Get Towers in to play a lead up forward to get some @@@@ing structure.

[R-1]

Yeah I think he's done and Shaw may not be far behind.

[Ludwig]

It's hard to see Ryan getting another game. He's not going to get any quicker. I don't know how he can improve.

[Matt80]

ROK is clearly being played out of position. He was amongst the best half forward flankers from 2004 - 2008, but that time has passed. Playing him on the half forward flank, as he was against Collingwood, is like asking Adam Goodes to play in the ruck.

ROK needs to be played in tight alongside Kennedy in the inside midfield battle. He can use his quick reactions, tackling ability, and brute strength in tight.

I'm a huge fan, but if Longmire refuses to use him in tight, then he is in big trouble.

[aguy]

I too think ROK is in trouble. I was a bug supporter if him after last week. But I think we had very little impact last night and when he did get the ball he was pretty in effective with it. There were one or two possessions he had on the 50 metres arc which he would have back for a set shot in the past but now just looked for a target closer and most often turned the ball over.

I hate saying that cause I love ROK he has been a been a champion for us. But I don't think he can be part of our forward structure. If he is not fast enough of the midfield anymore then we can't afford to play him. If we are losing as a team then we have to look to the younger players.

[ugg]

Very surprised none of the journos asked about ROK in the press conference

[Triple B]

Very surprised none of the journos asked about ROK in the press conference

They're probably saving the ROK questions for Buddy so the naysayers can have another grizzle about the Buddy recruitment...

[mcs]

I think he is done as well. A couple of times last night his attempts at 'tackles' did not get within cooee of the players, and his stats tell that he did not lay one successful tackle.


Its so sad to see, but footy moves on, and we are certainly in no position to be being sympathetic if we want to get our season going any time soon. I'd still love to see him make it 300, but we would need to be selective in which matches he plays in in order to reach the milestone, as he looks more and more like he will just be a passenger in the big games.

[Nico]

He starts every season slowly. Last year at the same time people were calling for his head. Like race horses; as they get older they take longer to get to their top with each preparation. Shaw has had a Lars job, so you can't expect him to be at his top yet. If you have played the game and you lost your touch, then you would agree it takes time to find it again.

[mcs]

He starts every season slowly. Last year at the same time people were calling for his head. Like race horses; as they get older they take longer to get to their top with each preparation. Shaw has had a Lars job, so you can't expect him to be at his top yet. If you have played the game and you lost your touch, then you would agree it takes time to find it again.

That's true Nico, but ROK looks done in terms of having pace and stamina to be effective. He will be a target now for opposition teams, as anyone with any reasonable amount of pace will run off him at will. I hope he comes good, but I have strong doubts after watching him live last night that he will :(

[giant]

After that effort, it's hard to see either of Shaw or ROK playing much seniors this year. You don't write champs off too quickly but he looked wayyyy of the pace.

[goods78]

I am guessing that the plan was for ROK to be subbed off at 3Q time, but the injury to Rohan prevented that.

He looked horribly out of place and barring a big injury toll, I can't see him making a Swan's senior return.