2016 Team

[swanspant12]

So now we finally know that Goodesy and Shawy have retired, how does our team shape up for next year? With our rubbish trading restrictions we will be limited in what we can do this year and I'm not even sure what we are entitled to do given the restrictions in place. Certainly our defence and small forward is an area we are lacking in moving forward as well as our ruckstocks.

Luenberger is apparently a target. Massive if we can get him and he can stay injury free. I'd also be going very hard at Kreuzer who is a restricted free agent.

I'd also be going extremely hard at getting Bennell to the club. Absolute class footballer, forget the off-field, if we lose Jetta and Goodes we will need an injection of pace. Get it done kinnear!!! Would be an absolute steal. Paul Seedsman from Collingwood is another half back flanker who has some potential to be a quality half back/wingman.

Jetta off aswell if the rumours are true.

My trading/free agency movements:


Pick 14 and Bird for Bennell.
Kreuzer/Luenberger free agency.
Courtenay Dempsey free agent
Seedsman PSD.

2016 Team:

B: Smith Richards Dempsey


HB: Laidler Grundy Rampe


C: Bennell Kennedy Jack


HF: Rose Tippett Reid


F: Heeney Franklin Rohan


FOL: Luenberger/Kruezer Parker Hannebery


I/C: Heeney McVeigh Lloyd Mitchell


Depth: Pyke, Alir Alir, Jones, B. Jack, Dempsey, Seedsman, Towers, Derickx, Robinson, Nankervis, Richards.


Thoughts?

[Mug Punter]

So now we finally know that Goodesy and Shawy have retired, how does our team shape up for next year? With our rubbish trading restrictions we will be limited in what we can do this year and I'm not even sure what we are entitled to do given the restrictions in place. Certainly our defence and small forward is an area we are lacking in moving forward as well as our ruckstocks.

Luenberger is apparently a target. Massive if we can get him and he can stay injury free. I'd also be going very hard at Kreuzer who is a restricted free agent.

I'd also be going extremely hard at getting Bennell to the club. Absolute class footballer, forget the off-field, if we lose Jetta and Goodes we will need an injection of pace. Get it done kinnear!!! Would be an absolute steal. Paul Seedsman from Collingwood is another half back flanker who has some potential to be a quality half back/wingman.

Jetta off aswell if the rumours are true.

My trading/free agency movements:


Pick 14 and Bird for Bennell.
Kreuzer/Luenberger free agency.
Courtenay Dempsey free agent
Seedsman PSD.

2016 Team:

B: Smith Richards Dempsey


HB: Laidler Grundy Rampe


C: Bennell Kennedy Jack


HF: Rose Tippett Reid


F: Heeney Franklin Rohan


FOL: Luenberger/Kruezer Parker Hannebery


I/C: Heeney McVeigh Lloyd Mitchell


Depth: Pyke, Alir Alir, Jones, B. Jack, Dempsey, Seedsman, Towers, Derickx, Robinson, Nankervis, Richards.


Thoughts?

Some ambitious trades there I must say.....

I'm going to be a doomsayer and predict Buddy will not play in 2016 and possibly never again. I have absolutely no inside knowledge, I just fear this is very very serious and he may never play again......

I think we only have enough coin to bring in a replacement for Jetta who will leave and that we will try and get a Ruckman - it will reflect the fact we need to plan for Tippo being at FF all season and also the fact that Pyke will be at the end of his use by date (all time Swans legend that he is)

My team...

B: Smith Richards Jones


HB: Laidler Grundy Rampe


C: McVeigh Kennedy Jack


HF: Heeney Reid Harry


F: McGlynn Tippett Rohan


FOL: New #1 Ruckman Parker Hannebery


I/C: Lloyd Mitchell Towers Nankervis


Depth: Pyke, B. Jack, Naismith, Richards, Hewett, Rose, Mills

Could be a very tough year but one where we will show our character

[6'2, 220, 4.53]

Danny Wilder expressed the opinion that Buddy may not play again.

I hope that is not the case. It would be a disaster for both the Swans and Franklin.

I'm wondering if the decision to dump Liam Pickering for Jacinta's manager has been the wrong one. I think Pickering would have been excellent in this situation.

[dimelb]

Some ambitious trades there I must say.....

I'm going to be a doomsayer and predict Buddy will not play in 2016 and possibly never again. I have absolutely no inside knowledge, I just fear this is very very serious and he may never play again......

I think we only have enough coin to bring in a replacement for Jetta who will leave and that we will try and get a Ruckman - it will reflect the fact we need to plan for Tippo being at FF all season and also the fact that Pyke will be at the end of his use by date (all time Swans legend that he is)

My team...

B: Smith Richards Jones


HB: Laidler Grundy Rampe


C: McVeigh Kennedy Jack


HF: Heeney Reid Harry


F: McGlynn Tippett Rohan


FOL: New #1 Ruckman Parker Hannebery


I/C: Lloyd Mitchell Towers Nankervis


Depth: Pyke, B. Jack, Naismith, Richards, Hewett, Rose, Mills

Could be a very tough year but one where we will show our character


I think I'd go largely with this team but I'd put Brandon at forward pocket instead of Ben - more pace, solid tackler, better kick - and Nankervis to depth with Rose in the side.

[mcs]

Danny Wilder expressed the opinion that Buddy may not play again.

I hope that is not the case. It would be a disaster for both the Swans and Franklin.

I'm wondering if the decision to dump Liam Pickering for Jacinta's manager has been the wrong one. I think Pickering would have been excellent in this situation.

Danny wiedler is an nrl gossip mongrel at best - ie not fit to tie the shoelace of a decent journalist. You need to apply a salt mine worth of salt to anything he comes out with.

[Swansinger]

I'm not confident we will even make the finals. That is more realistic than pessimistic.

I don't know enough about the "kids" knocking on the door , but I would guess there will be a few gems amongst them : we always seem to find a few good 'uns to inherit the mantle of the Kellys , Kirks and Boltons.

It would , however , be a mistake to blood too many youngsters all at once. Sure , they may get "experience" , but that could be damaging if it includes the experience of losing too often. As Paul Roos said , the Swans can never afford to "bottom out".

What of the current experienced players ? Is Birdy really gone ? Is Pykey going to give it away ? With Derickx on less than 20 games after five years,will he stay with us ? Nank may be a good player one day , but he looks slow . Our ruck stocks are not looking too good.

I suspect that the brilliant , lightning-quick , Gary Rohan is going to be one of those players who will be forever hampered by frequent injury. If anything , he is too brave for his own good.
Sam Reid may be similarly cursed.

Hey - anybody want to take a punt on Stevie J ? Naahh - having to listen to that voice would drive me bonkers :smile:!
Anyway , he'll stay in Victoria.

[RogueSwan]

...Hey - anybody want to take a punt on Stevie J ? Naahh - having to listen to that voice would drive me bonkers :smile:!
Anyway , he'll stay in Victoria.

I was thinking about that option during the game but ... nah, it smacks of desperation, tyring to buy a premiership and all that. With KJ and Parker back we are significantly better and Kizza seemed to getting back to his best form just before his injury.

[stevoswan]

So now we finally know that Goodesy and Shawy have retired, how does our team shape up for next year? With our rubbish trading restrictions we will be limited in what we can do this year and I'm not even sure what we are entitled to do given the restrictions in place. Certainly our defence and small forward is an area we are lacking in moving forward as well as our ruckstocks.

Luenberger is apparently a target. Massive if we can get him and he can stay injury free. I'd also be going very hard at Kreuzer who is a restricted free agent.

I'd also be going extremely hard at getting Bennell to the club. Absolute class footballer, forget the off-field, if we lose Jetta and Goodes we will need an injection of pace. Get it done kinnear!!! Would be an absolute steal. Paul Seedsman from Collingwood is another half back flanker who has some potential to be a quality half back/wingman.

Jetta off aswell if the rumours are true.

My trading/free agency movements:


Pick 14 and Bird for Bennell.
Kreuzer/Luenberger free agency.
Courtenay Dempsey free agent
Seedsman PSD.

2016 Team:

B: Smith Richards Dempsey


HB: Laidler Grundy Rampe


C: Bennell Kennedy Jack


HF: Rose Tippett Reid


F: Heeney Franklin Rohan


FOL: Luenberger/Kruezer Parker Hannebery


I/C: Heeney McVeigh Lloyd Mitchell


Depth: Pyke, Alir Alir, Jones, B. Jack, Dempsey, Seedsman, Towers, Derickx, Robinson, Nankervis, Richards.


Thoughts?

Very optimistic! Is Benny leaving too?

[mcs]

So now we finally know that Goodesy and Shawy have retired, how does our team shape up for next year? With our rubbish trading restrictions we will be limited in what we can do this year and I'm not even sure what we are entitled to do given the restrictions in place. Certainly our defence and small forward is an area we are lacking in moving forward as well as our ruckstocks.

Luenberger is apparently a target. Massive if we can get him and he can stay injury free. I'd also be going very hard at Kreuzer who is a restricted free agent.

I'd also be going extremely hard at getting Bennell to the club. Absolute class footballer, forget the off-field, if we lose Jetta and Goodes we will need an injection of pace. Get it done kinnear!!! Would be an absolute steal. Paul Seedsman from Collingwood is another half back flanker who has some potential to be a quality half back/wingman.

Jetta off aswell if the rumours are true.

My trading/free agency movements:


Pick 14 and Bird for Bennell.
Kreuzer/Luenberger free agency.
Courtenay Dempsey free agent
Seedsman PSD.

2016 Team:

B: Smith Richards Dempsey


HB: Laidler Grundy Rampe


C: Bennell Kennedy Jack


HF: Rose Tippett Reid


F: Heeney Franklin Rohan


FOL: Luenberger/Kruezer Parker Hannebery


I/C: Heeney McVeigh Lloyd Mitchell


Depth: Pyke, Alir Alir, Jones, B. Jack, Dempsey, Seedsman, Towers, Derickx, Robinson, Nankervis, Richards.


Thoughts?

How would we pay for Mills under your proposal?

[Captain]

My team based on getting Luenberger and losing Jetta:

Smith Grundy Richards
Laidler Reid Rampe
Hannebery Kennedy Rohan
McVeigh Franklin Henney
Mitchell Tippett McGlynn
Luenberger Parker Jack
Lloyd Cunningham Bird Towers

[Ludwig]

Here's a possibility without anyone being traded in and Jetta and Bird both out.

Smith Grundy Laidler
Rohan Richards Rampe
Parker Hanners McVeigh
Naismith Kennedy Mitchell
Reid Franklin Towers
Heeney Tippett K Jack
Cunningham Jones Hewett Mills

Emergencies: Lloyd, Newman, McGlynn

[Markus26]

Here's a possibility without anyone being traded in and Jetta and Bird both out.

Smith Grundy Laidler
Rohan Richards Rampe
Parker Hanners McVeigh
Naismith Kennedy Mitchell
Reid Franklin Towers
Heeney Tippett K Jack
Cunningham Jones Hewett Mills

Emergencies: Lloyd, Newman, McGlynn

That is a tasty line-up! I would like to add Dunks Jr. to that list but he still hasn't nominated yet, has he? If we hold on to Marsh and Aliir, those boys would have to debut you would think at some stage. I would expect Rose to grab a couple more games along with X too.

[longmile]

Here's a possibility without anyone being traded in and Jetta and Bird both out.

Smith Grundy Laidler
Rohan Richards Rampe
Parker Hanners McVeigh
Naismith Kennedy Mitchell
Reid Franklin Towers
Heeney Tippett K Jack
Cunningham Jones Hewett Mills

Emergencies: Lloyd, Newman, McGlynn

That's a very young team.
I think with our depth issues this year they might hold on to Bird for one more year

[aguy]

Here is my team for next year

Rampe Richards Smith
Jones Grundy Mcveigh
Rohan Mitchell Cunningham
Kennedy Leuenberger Hannebery
Parker Reid Jack
Franklin Tippett Heeney

Interchange Towers B Jack Lloyd Laidler

[RogueSwan]

Here's a possibility without anyone being traded in and Jetta and Bird both out.

Smith Grundy Laidler
Rohan Richards Rampe
Parker Hanners McVeigh
Naismith Kennedy Mitchell
Reid Franklin Towers
Heeney Tippett K Jack
Cunningham Jones Hewett Mills

Emergencies: Lloyd, Newman, McGlynn

I think we have seen that the Rooster is not as comfortable in the back half. He is better off causing chaos around the forward 50.


... If we hold on to Marsh and Aliir, those boys would have to debut you would think at some stage. I would expect Rose to grab a couple more games along with X too.
I am hoping for an Aliir break out at some time this year. Watching the 2012 DVD reminded me of how much we needed AJ (or similar in this team). Rampe is being asked to play on the oppositions third tall when we should be getting him back to the kicking and tackling, which made us sit up,of his first season. Laids has become a very good team player but Johnson was/is just that something a little bit special. Hopefully he can pull a Menzel and one day, run on with the Seniors.
I hope we aren't looking at a ruckman, we should be looking for a backman. I believe Reg has had one of his best seasons but Teddy has dropped off. I don't mind that Ted is playing on next year but it would be good if we could provide him with an understudy.


That's a very young team.
I think with our depth issues this year they might hold on to Bird for one more year
I really like Bird and hope he can stay with Swans but even with Kizza and Parker out, and Heeney with a sore knee, he didn't get a run. Hopefully next year Lloyd gets over his second year blues and lives up to the RWO hype :-)

The other thing we could struggle with is the scrapping of the sub and the reduced interchanges. Does this benefit or hurt us? Does Bird, who was universally considered (if the RWO is the universe (and who am I to say it isn't)) one paced going to be more valuable or less so? Will two rucks become fashionable with one resting either forward or back? This could explain the media saying we are chasing Leuenberger? Myke obviously can't run out a game or take strong contested marks like he used to and the Footy Dept are comfortable relying on Naismith yet. A Tippo/Leuenberger ruck combo could be very good, potentially, if they can both stay on the field at the right end of the season.

backs: Smith --- Reg --- Laidler,
Rampe --- Richards --- Aliir/X/Davis --- Jones
midfield: McVeigh --- Kennedy --- Naismith --- Mitchell --- Parker --- K.Jack
forwards: Reid --- Franklin --- Heeney
Tippo --- Rohan

Bench/Depth: "someone we trade in", Lloyd, Cunningham, Towers, McGlynn/B.Jack (both playing for the same spot and right now I would give it to BJ)

[Markus26]

I really hope we don't go after another ruckman. Watching Pyke labour around the field looking lost was too much to take the other night. I believe we have to open the door for Naismith and the Nank. They can't be much worse than anyone else we have fielded in that area lately (besides Tippo who has been solid lately).

I would like to draft some youngsters in, a fringe player or two from other clubs. We have superb drafting staff and I hope they can weave some magic once again. I would take Hampton over Bennell, Smith and Leuenberger, trade out Bird and Jetta and give some opportunities to some of our guys who have been in the system for 2 - 3 years e.g. Hewett, Newman etc. I think the other key is to keep giving some of these youngsters a spot so they a) grow in confidence; and b) not stress about making mistakes (which they all will). You don't want a player thinking I'm going to be dropped if I spray the ball or turn it over.

Whatever happens it's going to be an interesting trading period and a great year in 2016. Looking forward to seeing Goodsey round 1 and renewing my membership for next year.

[Mug Punter]

I really hope we don't go after another ruckman. Watching Pyke labour around the field looking lost was too much to take the other night. I believe we have to open the door for Naismith and the Nank. They can't be much worse than anyone else we have fielded in that area lately (besides Tippo who has been solid lately).

I would like to draft some youngsters in, a fringe player or two from other clubs. We have superb drafting staff and I hope they can weave some magic once again. I would take Hampton over Bennell, Smith and Leuenberger, trade out Bird and Jetta and give some opportunities to some of our guys who have been in the system for 2 - 3 years e.g. Hewett, Newman etc. I think the other key is to keep giving some of these youngsters a spot so they a) grow in confidence; and b) not stress about making mistakes (which they all will). You don't want a player thinking I'm going to be dropped if I spray the ball or turn it over.

Whatever happens it's going to be an interesting trading period and a great year in 2016. Looking forward to seeing Goodsey round 1 and renewing my membership for next year.

If we are to go for a ruckman I'd prefer it be a Zak Smith who has real upside and can potentially be a 200 gamer for us, he's a good style of a lad too.

I can see with interchanges going down and the sub rule out that we'll need to two top line rucks next year and we need another one. Neither Nanka or Sam are ready yet and Pyke is on his last legs, I can see him being nothing but depth next year.

But I'm happy with these teams I see predicted for 2016 - I like the idea of growing our own again and we have quite a crop who will be in their third year in our programme - Hewett, Jones, Nanka, Marsh, Alliir, X etc. It's a big year for these kids and if we get 3-4 of them cementing their spot then we'll be looking good

[S.S. Bleeder]

I really hope we don't go after another ruckman. Watching Pyke labour around the field looking lost was too much to take the other night. Looking forward to seeing Goodsey round 1 and renewing my membership for next year.

Isn't that a reason to be looking for a ruckman? Neither Naismith nor Nanka will be ready next year, Pyke is struggling and it would appear that we will be more inclined to play two rucks now that the sub is going to be removed. BTW Goodsey has retired.

[stevoswan]

If we are to go for a ruckman I'd prefer it be a Zak Smith who has real upside and can potentially be a 200 gamer for us, he's a good style of a lad too.



Agree, Smith is younger, probably better, a much better chance of staying on the park.

[S.S. Bleeder]

If we are to go for a ruckman I'd prefer it be a Zak Smith who has real upside and can potentially be a 200 gamer for us, he's a good style of a lad too.

Me too but Leuenberger is free.

[Markus26]

Isn't that a reason to be looking for a ruckman? Neither Naismith nor Nanka will be ready next year, Pyke is struggling and it would appear that we will be more inclined to play two rucks now that the sub is going to be removed. BTW Goodsey has retired.

In my humble opinion I think that unless you have a ruckman who is damaging in some way: the calabre of Nic Nat, Goldstein, Mummy or Sandilands type then you might as well blood a youngster or two in the hope they become a significant ruckman or at least give them a consistent opportunity. I don't view our older ruck stocks as having much impact at all for the rest of their careers, nor would I waste resources on a ruckman like Leuenberger who is now 27 years old and hasn't exactly set the Gabba on fire.

I think the mix of Tippett, Reid, a younger body like Naismith or Nanks + someone who can pinch-hit like Towers is enough.

But if you are correct in saying that Naismith and Nanks are underdeveloped, then surely Pyke and Derickx are past it. I would delist the last two to make room for another ruckman, but not hold onto them all.

[dimelb]

My impression of Pyke's situation is that much of the problem is his knees. Can he do what Adam did and try stem cell therapy? In every other respect Pykey has the strength and the skills to do the job. What he needs more than anything else is to recapture his mobility.

[Scottee]

My impression of Pyke's situation is that much of the problem is his knees. Can he do what Adam did and try stem cell therapy? In every other respect Pykey has the strength and the skills to do the job. What he needs more than anything else is to recapture his mobility.

He's already onto the stem cell treatment. Saved him from a 2013 knee injury that looked set to end his career. We've seen how valuable he is when his knees are right. We just don't know as supporters what the real knee problem is.

[Levii3]

...What about Callum Mills surely he's in the 22 and takes Benny McGlynn spot. If we get Paul Seedsman he'll likely play on the hb line. Teddy may play reserves next year like Pebbles did in 2014

[bloodsbigot]

Sorry, I've always liked Pyke, but we gotta drop him. He's cooked. Need a better ruckman who actually does something.

Also, I hate to say it, but our team would look a lot better without McGlynn. He tries his guts out and is a fighter, but he just lacks the physical attributes to influence a game. I'm not very confident going into a game when he gets selected. Someone who tries his guts out and can influence a game is Rohan. If McGlynn takes a massive paycut it would be worth keeping him.

[111431]

Benny needs to be cut a bit of slack and not judged on his last couple of games. If he can have a full preseason and stay clear of injuries he will be back to his previous form

[WauchopeAnalyst]

I will call before the game. The Swans game was a fair team losing to a fair team. Home and away games sets up the ladder but finals are totally different. The 2 defence teams, us and Freo, will get thrashed by WC and the Hawks.

The game is changing and attack is taking over.

And next year more attacking teams will beat us. 5th for I50 but 10th for goals. The coaching crew still make our players bomb it in to the forwards. The better teams using the ball will found us out.

[Mug Punter]

Sorry, I've always liked Pyke, but we gotta drop him. He's cooked. Need a better ruckman who actually does something.

Also, I hate to say it, but our team would look a lot better without McGlynn. He tries his guts out and is a fighter, but he just lacks the physical attributes to influence a game. I'm not very confident going into a game when he gets selected. Someone who tries his guts out and can influence a game is Rohan. If McGlynn takes a massive paycut it would be worth keeping him.

Pyke is close to the end of a marvellous career - he'll provide good back up as our third ruckman which really means we do need to bring one in.

Benny was cruelled by injuries this year but it is hard to see him going beyond the end of his contract next year when he will be 31

[ernie koala]

Certainly don't agree with cutting Ben McGlynn....Especially having just lost Goodes and Shaw.

With a good pre season, McGlynn will be in our best 22...You can't manufacture his experience and hardness.

He'll probably play more forward than midfield, which IMO is his best role anyway....

This won't be popular, but Rohan is a player I'd be looking closely at...Like most, I love watching him play but...

He's sporadically dynamic, often goes missing, and plays with a recklessness that often leaves him incapacitated.

He needs to be more consistent and play with more awareness/intelligence in terms of his own health.....Just look at his ridiculous collision with Petrie last week.

[Mug Punter]

Certainly don't agree with cutting Ben McGlynn....Especially having just lost Goodes and Shaw.

With a good pre season, McGlynn will be in our best 22...You can't manufacture his experience and hardness.

He'll probably play more forward than midfield, which IMO is his best role anyway....

He's under contract, we'll be honouring that contract I am sure as no-one would trade for him at this stage.

So, Benny, Ted and Pykey to retire in 2016

Imagine Jarred won't play on after the year after when his contract finishes and possibly Reg too

Overall the ageing of our list doesn't seem an issue to me

[Levii3]

He's under contract, we'll be honouring that contract I am sure as no-one would trade for him at this stage.

Imagine Jarred won't play on after the year after when his contract finishes

McVeigh will play until he reaches 300 he said that previously so atleast two more seasons should hand over captaincy after next season.

[Ludwig]

Imagine Jarred won't play on after the year after when his contract finishes and possibly Reg too

Overall the ageing of our list doesn't seem an issue to me

Reg will be 32 when his new contract finishes in 3 years, which is not that old for a key defender these days, but probably just about the right time.

As for Macca, he had a pretty good year statistically, had a few excellent games and did some big things at critical moments. But there seems to be a general feeling that his skill level has slipped and he's made some bad errors at times. He's been a very fit player that hasn't been troubled by injury much, so there's no telling how long he'll go on for.

I too am not worried about the aging of our list. In fact, the quality of our young midfielders is probably second to none in the league. The only concern is our ability to replace key defenders, but there are lots of clubs facing similar concerns. Perhaps the answer is a complete domination in the midfield so the ball never enters our defensive zone.

[bloodsbigot]

Kieran Jack isn't captain material. Sorry to say. I predicted he'd be the future captain in 2010, but don't think he's up for it. I next predicted Hannebery as the captain but think he's a bit too immature for that.

Give the captaincy to Parker ASAP. Don't care how young he is. He's a born leader.

[Levii3]

Kieran Jack isn't captain material. Sorry to say. I predicted he'd be the future captain in 2010, but don't think he's up for it. I next predicted Hannebery as the captain but think he's a bit too immature for that.

Give the captaincy to Parker ASAP. Don't care how young he is. He's a born leader.

I think Callum Mills is the next captain when ever anyone talks about the kid they always end up talking about his leadership, Parker isn't a natural leader he's like Bolton he's got heart. Mills could do to the Swans what Selwood did for Geelong and drive a stagnating group.

[bloodspirit]

Parker is an inspiring leader and developing his leadership skills more and more. Didn't he join the leadership group this year?

I don't think Hannebery should be underestimated either. He is less obviously captain material but he is bright, talented and very hard working. Who knows what may happen one day? I wouldn't support him becoming captain at this stage however - Parker seems closer.

Mills should certainly not be made captain immediately! Even Selwood wasn't made captain until he was nearly 24 and in his 6th season playing for the Cats - and that was considered young. Which is not to say Mills can't start leading with his actions and words in an unofficial capacity from the get-go.

[longmile]

Only watched a handful of highlights, but is Mills really gonna slot into the midfield straight away? Heeney was only able to fit into the team as a small forward, because it wasn't as physically demanding.

[bloodspirit]

Kieran Jack isn't captain material. Sorry to say. I predicted he'd be the future captain in 2010, but don't think he's up for it. I next predicted Hannebery as the captain but think he's a bit too immature for that.

Give the captaincy to Parker ASAP. Don't care how young he is. He's a born leader.

Parker reckons Kieren Jack is the one he looks up to: Sydney Swan Luke Parker the AFL�s Most Courageous - AFL Players (http://www.aflplayers.com.au/article/sydney-swan-luke-parker-the-afls-most-courageous/). He says Kizza always goes in hard and is the go-to man when the chips are down and you need someone to stand up. But I quite Parker has captaincy material written all over him and is a future captain of our footy club. His winning of the Robert Rose Award for most courageous player as voted by his peers is good evidence of that. But not yet, in my opinion. Although, if Macca did step down as co-captain and they elevated Parkesy in his place to co-captain with Kizza, I wouldn't have a problem with that. I trust the club's processes and that they will listen to the opinion of the players also.

[WolfGang]

Does anyone have the dates of the
1) Draft
2) Pre-Session draft, and
3) Rookie drafts ??
I'm unsure if I even listed the drafts in order ??

[aardvark]

2015 NAB AFL Draft

WHEN: Tuesday, November 24, 5.30pm ACDT

WHERE: Adelaide Convention Centre, Adelaide

How to follow the draft

� WATCH the draft live on your phone or tablet on the AFL Official app

� FOLLOW every pick as it happens on AFL.com.au and the AFL Official app

� WATCH the live broadcast on Fox Footy

� Fans can also attend the draft in person, for free

2015 NAB AFL Pre-Season Draft

WHEN: Friday, November 27, 11.05am AEDT

HOW TO FOLLOW: Every pick as it happens on AFL.com.au and the AFL Official app

2015 NAB AFL Rookie Draft

WHEN: Friday, November 27, 11.10am AEDT

HOW TO FOLLOW: Every pick as it happens on AFL.com.au and the AFL Official app

Key draft dates

Tuesday November 24 - NAB AFL Draft (Adelaide Convention Centre), including Father/Son and Academy Players Bidding

Wednesday November 25 - AFL club list lodgement

Friday November 27, 11am AEDT - NAB AFL Pre-Season Draft

Friday November 27, 11.05am AEDT - Notification of pre-selected rookies if not selected in the Pre-Season Draft

Friday November 27, 11.10am AEDT - NAB AFL Rookie Draft

Tuesday December 1, 2pm - Final AFL club list lodgement; Final total player payment (TPP) pre-season estimates

Friday December 4, 2pm - International players inclusion on rookie list form lodgement

[Auntie.Gerald]

looking at our team 2015 vs 2016 my gut feeling is that we may have missed our window for a GF berth for some years now.....the key players retired or moving on like Jetta is a serious struggle to replace

BUT a glass half full camera lens would say that the following could quite possibly happen !


i) Goodes 2015 ability can be matched on a weekly basis by non other then Dean "the inferno" Towers.......The inferno goes onto kick more goals then Goodes 2015 tally......Goodes scored 26 goals but Dean nails 35 goals in 2016 and continues his strong leading thru the middle of the oval like he did in the last few games in 2015......."The inferno" becomes a key leading focal point of our attack not unlike Gunston for the Hawks!!!

ii) Shaw will be replaced by Zac Jones and young Zac will impact a game more then Shaw did in 2015 and becomes a key player for our transitions out of our backline !!!

iii) Pyke struggling in 2015 and not sure if they knee can be operated on as it appears to be more a tendanitis issue but Sammy Naismith or Tippo to become to dominant ruck in 2016.........Sam could be better then Mikes 2015 season and Tippo showed 50% in as a ruck man works well. Sam Naismith and Tippo combo becomes a force in the competition

iv) Ted retiring most likely at then end of 2016.......if ted struggles in 2016 loosing a yard of pace we see young X or AA come in and take the fast tall forward and match Teds abilities

v) Jetta is replaced by Brandon playing on the wing and kills it.........Brandon like Jetta is a late bloomer and he has a break out year scoring 25 goals and averages 22 disposals a game from the wing :)

vi) Heeney unleashed into the midfield.......... and Macca and Jack getting more time off the HBF or HFF............ Issac goes on to attract 20 Brownlow votes and people saying is he the next Gazza Jnr ?

vii) Mills come straight into the 22 and has an amazing impact collecting an average of 26 disposals a game........the greatest argument on the RAW forum is who will be better Mills, Heeney or Parker at the same age !!!

viii) Gary Rohan is 110% over his leg issues..........Gary has a massive pre season.....beats his 3km time by 35 seconds.......and becomes a lethal swingman and kicks 40 goals for the season

ix) Franklin.2 comes out 10 feet taller and kicks 70 Goals and with Sammy Reid they become an absolute force up front !!!

x) Parker comes back from surgery and simply takes the Swans midfield to a whole new level.......the midfield rotation of Parker, Hannes, Kennedy, Heeney, Mitchell, Mills, Jack and B.Jack is talked about as the new bench mark in the comp

[bloodsbigot]

According to AFL.com the swans are going for Scott Lycett of the West Coast Eagles. Also showing an interest in Shoenmakers.

[Swansinger]

According to AFL.com the swans are going for Scott Lycett of the West Coast Eagles. Also showing an interest in Shoenmakers.

Or Sinclair , who has played at the top level for only three seasons - and that showed on Saturday.
Sub rule change for next season must make fringe ruckmen happy !
If we get either of them , it will likely be the end for Tom Derickx.

We won't get Schoenmakers.

I'd target trades with Collingwood : that has usually been a win-win for both of us !

[Conor_Dillon]

Love your optimism Auntie G!

[111431]

looking at our team 2015 vs 2016 my gut feeling is that we may have missed our window for a GF berth for some years now.....the key players retired or moving on like Jetta is a serious struggle to replace

BUT a glass half full camera lens would say that the following could quite possibly happen !


i) Goodes 2015 ability can be matched on a weekly basis by non other then Dean "the inferno" Towers.......The inferno goes onto kick more goals then Goodes 2015 tally......Goodes scored 26 goals but Dean nails 35 goals in 2016 and continues his strong leading thru the middle of the oval like he did in the last few games in 2015......."The inferno" becomes a key leading focal point of our attack not unlike Gunston for the Hawks!!!

ii) Shaw will be replaced by Zac Jones and young Zac will impact a game more then Shaw did in 2015 and becomes a key player for our transitions out of our backline !!!

iii) Pyke struggling in 2015 and not sure if they knee can be operated on as it appears to be more a tendanitis issue but Sammy Naismith or Tippo to become to dominant ruck in 2016.........Sam could be better then Mikes 2015 season and Tippo showed 50% in as a ruck man works well. Sam Naismith and Tippo combo becomes a force in the competition

iv) Ted retiring most likely at then end of 2016.......if ted struggles in 2016 loosing a yard of pace we see young X or AA come in and take the fast tall forward and match Teds abilities

v) Jetta is replaced by Brandon playing on the wing and kills it.........Brandon like Jetta is a late bloomer and he has a break out year scoring 25 goals and averages 22 disposals a game from the wing :)

vi) Heeney unleashed into the midfield.......... and Macca and Jack getting more time off the HBF or HFF............ Issac goes on to attract 20 Brownlow votes and people saying is he the next Gazza Jnr ?

vii) Mills come straight into the 22 and has an amazing impact collecting an average of 26 disposals a game........the greatest argument on the RAW forum is who will be better Mills, Heeney or Parker at the same age !!!

viii) Gary Rohan is 110% over his leg issues..........Gary has a massive pre season.....beats his 3km time by 35 seconds.......and becomes a lethal swingman and kicks 40 goals for the season

ix) Franklin.2 comes out 10 feet taller and kicks 70 Goals and with Sammy Reid they become an absolute force up front !!!

x) Parker comes back from surgery and simply takes the Swans midfield to a whole new level.......the midfield rotation of Parker, Hannes, Kennedy, Heeney, Mitchell, Mills, Jack and B.Jack is talked about as the new bench mark in the comp
that s/be our vision for the preseason !

[Pmcc2911]

Even if only half of Aunties G's visions come true that will be fantastic

[Auntie.Gerald]

1386

[Ludwig]

Lance Franklin to be a no-show at Sydney Swans best-and-fairest count (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/lance-franklin-to-be-a-noshow-at-sydney-swans-bestandfairest-count-20151007-gk32aa.html)The last paragraph of the article is interesting in respect to how our list is likely to develop over the next few years:


Franklin, with a rare nine-year contract, had been paid at the lower end in the past two years, pocketing about $700,000 each season. However, that is set to rise to about $1.2 million in each of the next three years.


Add the reduction in the COLA and that makes a difference of $700k from this year. That's probably roughly equal to Goodes and Shaw being replaced by a couple of draft picks (maybe not even). We are likely to be carrying a fairly young list for a top 4 club until a rise in the salary cap kicks in pursuant to a new agreement with the AFLPA.

Perhaps we have factored in losing Jetta and Bird, which will give us just enough room to add someone like Leuenberger. The main reason I didn't think it was worth fighting too hard to get the trading ban lifted was due to these very practical limitations on our flexibility to bring in another top line player.

History would say that we should find it difficult to seriously challenge for a premiership next year, but it should nonetheless by very exciting seeing some of our youngsters develop.

[Conor_Dillon]

I think our list is certainly good enough to challenge for a premiership (with some luck on the injury front), but our gameplan/gamestyle needs some serious revamping.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

I think our list is certainly good enough to challenge for a premiership (with some luck on the injury front), but our gameplan/gamestyle needs some serious revamping.

:adore

[6'2, 220, 4.53]

I think our list is certainly good enough to challenge for a premiership (with some luck on the injury front), but our gameplan/gamestyle needs some serious revamping.

No. We are not good enough.

We are a 5-8 side who may win one final.

As much as I like John Longmire he is not Alistair Clarkson.

Clarkson will go down as the Alex Ferguson of the AFL. He is strategically superiority and tactically superior.

New specially targeted players will come in and keep doing it the Hawthorn way.

What is the Swans strategy. Eighty tackles a game and hope that Buddy will rove a couple of packs.

[crackedactor]

No. We are not good enough.

We are a 5-8 side who may win one final.

As much as I like John Longmire he is not Alistair Clarkson.

Clarkson will go down as the Alex Ferguson of the AFL. He is strategically superiority and tactically superior.

New specially targeted players will come in and keep doing it the Hawthorn way.

What is the Swans strategy. Eighty tackles a game and hope that Buddy will rove a couple of packs. I am not sure its Longmire's fault we are not more successful. We definitely need a full team on the park. As for Clarkson, the thing that amazes me is how fresh Hawthorn look after playing hard tough finals matches?? We were completely flat in last year's GF and west coast looked even worse. I cannot work out how they do it?

[bungwahl]

No. We are not good enough.

We are a 5-8 side who may win one final.

As much as I like John Longmire he is not Alistair Clarkson.

Clarkson will go down as the Alex Ferguson of the AFL. He is strategically superiority and tactically superior.

New specially targeted players will come in and keep doing it the Hawthorn way.

What is the Swans strategy. Eighty tackles a game and hope that Buddy will rove a couple of packs.

Our list is definitely good enough! Next season we'll have a midfield of JPK, Hannebery, Jack, Mitchell, Parker, Heeney and Mills, so if we can fix up our ruck issues we'll have plenty of grunt in the engine room. Plus Buddy and Tippett up front!

You're right though - the game plan must change!

[Ludwig]

I am not sure its Longmire's fault we are not more successful. We definitely need a full team on the park. As for Clarkson, the thing that amazes me is how fresh Hawthorn look after playing hard tough finals matches?? We were completely flat in last year's GF and west coast looked even worse. I cannot work out how they do it?It is quite stunning how Hawthorn have had the last 3 grand finals done and dusted by halftime. Everyone knows what's coming, but seem helpless to stop it.

We have a strong team that should perform well if we can have a good run with injuries, but I think history shows that the reliance we will have on players with less than 50 games to perform at a high level is unlikely to eventuate in a premiership, even though the quality is certainly there.

It goes without saying that Buddy, Tippo and Reid will all need to have strong years relatively free of injury. The likes of Heeney, Towers and Cunningham could well make up the rest of our forward line. All are capable of having strong seasons despite their lack of experience. How this forward line performs could forge our destiny for 2016.

Our list and talent is evolving and our game plan will have to evolve with it. But in the end we still have to execute our skills with high precision. That was missing last year and we can only wait to see if it improves next year.

[6'2, 220, 4.53]

Our list is definitely good enough! Next season we'll have a midfield of JPK, Hannebery, Jack, Mitchell, Parker, Heeney and Mills, so if we can fix up our ruck issues we'll have plenty of grunt in the engine room. Plus Buddy and Tippett up front!

You're right though - the game plan must change!

Most of the above players would not fit in the Hawthorn system. With the Hawks it's about the system. Kennedy, Parker and Jack are inferior by foot compared to Mitchell, Hodge, Burgoin.

The only Swans players who can play the Hawks system are Jetta, Franklin, Tippett, Heeney, Rampe and possibly McVeigh and Hannas. These players are penetrating by foot and suit the Hawks system.

I think Clarkson would love to work with Rampe. Rampe would be ideal for the Hawks system.

The swans have talented players who apply good pressure, but they don't have the a strategic system like the Hawks.

[Auntie.Gerald]

ok

being able to attract the level of players to fix the problem has been a huge part of Hawthorns success as they already had some brilliant indus in Mitchell, Rioli, Hodge, Smith, Hill, Roughie etc

Gunston
McEvoy
Hale
Lake
Frawley
Burgoyne
Gibson
orourke no2 draft pick from gws

compare our vfl, wafl purchases Jetta, Mummy, Kennedy, Mcglynn etc paid dividends a few years back which lead to enough talent in the one season to take on and win a GF............but it is nothing compared to the players the Hawks acquired i.e. our recruits had a handful of AFL games played vs hundreds and hundreds

Tippo and Bud our recent acquisitions are more in the calibre that the hawks have made happen ..........AND given our chances of getting any DECENT players in the near future they were critical acquisitions for Sydney

BUT

i did love how the Hawks didn't play with a typical CHF and FF in the finals

they left a massive corridor thru the centre of their attacking 50m arc and then we would see smalls such as Rioli float thru isolating a one on one which is the ultimate besides a one on none :)

conversely almost every entry by the Eagles was sent into a mass of Hawks defence and so often a loose defender was there waiting which just makes it embarrassing !

* So the Hawks have an amazing ability to Zone in defence and create a loose defender to negate the opposition entries being effective

* The Hawks have a great transition and so many of their players play all over the field which causes headaches at levels way beyond most teams able to cope with

* the Hawks have a fantastic ability at kicking goals vs behinds

* But lets be honest they have a team of indvs that can cope with the high kick and catch game plan and as long as their conversion rate at the sticks is healthy they can't be beaten........easily.......except in 2012 :)

[WauchopeAnalyst]

I believe that you can see the Hawks always evolving, changing a having a new plan. Smashed by WC at Subiaco with narrow ground in QF. At the GF the Hawks are always great but changed their plan and went around through the pockets, flanks and wings and just 20% in corridor.

Horse and our crew are unable or unwilling to change. 5 men within 3 metres of the ball, the 1m hand pass, no-one in front of the ball, except Goodsey and his gone, will only leave if sure we have the ball, 4 defenders trying to spoil with Cyril, Popa & Bruest on the ground by themselves.

Horse can get everything from nearly every player but no ideas.

Also leadership. Would you rather have Selwood, Hodge, Fyfe ( not Pav)? Boak, Murph at Bulldogs or Macca and Kizza. All very different but you can see whats works. Boak gets tagged but works his arse off. Cotchin cries.

The Hawks teach players to back their players and win their own but the Swans teach them to help their team mates at every point even if they dont need it. The Hawks always have free players but the Swans just rarely.

We are totally reactive, the Hawks are totally proactive.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

With AA re-signed are we waiting to see if Birdy and Robbo are traded before offering a contract to Hewett and Marsh must be leaving.

[Ludwig]

Horse can get everything from nearly every player but no ideas.


I don't think the game plan is to kick the ball to the opposition, which is what we were doing all too often this year. It's hard to know what the game plan is when we don't have the skills to back it up. It's hard for the fans to know if the players are following the game plan or not, and particularly hard to know if the tactics employed in a game are coming from the coach or are made on the spot by the players.

I don't think I've seen anyone on here give a specific outline of what he or she thinks Longmire's game plan is and how they would change it. When the game is unfolding and things go wrong, I find it hard to know whose to blame.


With AA re-signed are we waiting to see if Birdy and Robbo are traded before offering a contract to Hewett and Marsh must be leaving.Tom Harley recently remarked that Hewett was part of our long term plans, and so he should be. I'm not sure about Marsh, but I'm leaning toward keeping him another year given his considerable improvement this year. I doubt we will do better with a late speculative pick in this draft.

[ernie koala]

FB :Smith Richards Rampe
HB :Jones Grundy McVeigh
C :Hannebery Kennedy Jack
HF :Heeney Franklin Reid
FF :McGlynn Tippett Rohan

FOL: Sinclair Parker Mitchell

INT: (from) Mills, Laidler, Cunningham, Lloyd, Towers, Pyke, X Richards
EMG: Hewett,, Naismith, B Jack

This team conservatively assumes just one significant pickup, Sinclair.....Looks pretty good on paper to me.

Maybe one more outside mid/hb with pace would complete the balance....Maybe we could make a play for Jetta.

[Conor_Dillon]

No. We are not good enough.

We are a 5-8 side who may win one final.

As much as I like John Longmire he is not Alistair Clarkson.

Clarkson will go down as the Alex Ferguson of the AFL. He is strategically superiority and tactically superior.

New specially targeted players will come in and keep doing it the Hawthorn way.

What is the Swans strategy. Eighty tackles a game and hope that Buddy will rove a couple of packs.

As I said, we are good enough if our game style and plan changes drastically. It's certainly a big if though.

[longmile]

Despite coaching us to a premiership I've never been to sold on Longmire. He doesnt seem to be able to think quickly on his feet or seems to rely soley on a Plan A. Dew has been sitting in the wings for a few years now and with Kirky back surely the time to change reins would be now or next year and would freshen up our gamestyle which this year seemed to stagnate a bit while the game changed to a more offensive style.

[Mug Punter]

Despite coaching us to a premiership I've never been to sold on Longmire. He doesnt seem to be able to think quickly on his feet or seems to rely soley on a Plan A. Dew has been sitting in the wings for a few years now and with Kirky back surely the time to change reins would be now or next year and would freshen up our gamestyle which this year seemed to stagnate a bit while the game changed to a more offensive style.

This has to be a wind up, are you freaking serious?

You want to replace a guy who has a win ratio of 67% with the second highest win ratio since the AFL Inception

Man, talk about being hard to please - barge-arse or our own version of the Dalia Lama are no guarantee of being as near as successful as Horse

:hmmmm2::hmmmm2::hmmmm2::hmmmm2::hmmmm2::hmmmm2::h mmmm2:

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/afl_coaches?sort=p&status=&type=

[WauchopeAnalyst]

This has to be a wind up, are you freaking serious?

You want to replace a guy who has a win ratio of 67% with the second highest win ratio since the AFL Inception

Man, talk about being hard to please - barge-arse or our own version of the Dalia Lama are no guarantee of being as near as successful as Horse

:hmmmm2::hmmmm2::hmmmm2::hmmmm2::hmmmm2::hmmmm2::h mmmm2:

AFL Coaches Since 1987 Records & Statistics (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/afl_coaches?sort=p&status=&type=)

We play the same way as Freo and how many premierships have Freo had? Finals appease the poor clubs.

I would rather missed finals but trying to play a way that can will the flag, not just to make finals and hope the Hawks fall over. In 2012 we played a way that worked. In 2014 looked good, but absolutely smashed. The Hawks will beat us at every game until the whole Hodge, Lewis, Burgoyne, Mitchell, Roughead, Gibson, Lake are gone but they will backfill with every player they want.

That was 3 years ago and they have beat us in every IMPORTANT game, not round 5.

[longmile]

This has to be a wind up, are you freaking serious?

You want to replace a guy who has a win ratio of 67% with the second highest win ratio since the AFL Inception

Man, talk about being hard to please - barge-arse or our own version of the Dalia Lama are no guarantee of being as near as successful as Horse

:hmmmm2::hmmmm2::hmmmm2::hmmmm2::hmmmm2::hmmmm2::h mmmm2:

AFL Coaches Since 1987 Records & Statistics (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/afl_coaches?sort=p&status=&type=)

Yes I'm being serious. I think we are a very good team and we have a decent to good coach, but we seem to be a bit off other top 8 teams in regards to our ball movement, adaptability and zoning and rely on our genuine grunt work to get the job done. While I am being a bit harsh on Horse I think we could be a little bit more tactically savvy or inspirational/forward thinking in order to take us to the extra level.

But obviously our skills at the moment are our biggest concern.

[barry]

We play the same way as Freo and how many premierships have Freo had? Finals appease the poor clubs.

I would rather missed finals but trying to play a way that can will the flag, not just to make finals and hope the Hawks fall over. In 2012 we played a way that worked. In 2014 looked good, but absolutely smashed. The Hawks will beat us at every game until the whole Hodge, Lewis, Burgoyne, Mitchell, Roughead, Gibson, Lake are gone but they will backfill with every player they want.

That was 3 years ago and they have beat us in every IMPORTANT game, not round 5.

Missing the finals has major implications for us. Financially and in terms of attracting talent. We need to present ourselves as a pathway to a flag. Consistent top 4 finishes are required.

[RogueSwan]

... but we seem to be a bit off other top 8 teams in regards to our ball movement, adaptability and zoning ...
The Weagles, and hence Adam Simpson, did not show much adaptability in the GF.

[Levii3]

John Longmire is an excellent coach just because he doesn't present well in the media doesn't mean he is a bad coach and "slow on his feet". We don't need a new coach we need a new strategist thats Stuart Dews role who has been so consumed in getting a senior coaching position he's not doing the job he currently has very well
Longmires Record i think it holds up against the best coaches
5 consecutive Finals Series
4 Consecutive Top 4 ladder finishes
1 premiership
1 minor premiership
1 Grand Final

[Mug Punter]

Missing the finals has major implications for us. Financially and in terms of attracting talent. We need to present ourselves as a pathway to a flag. Consistent top 4 finishes are required.

Well, just as well that we have a coach who has achieved the fopllowing in his forst 5 seasons

5 consecutive Finals Series
4 Consecutive Top 4 ladder finishes
1 premiership
1 minor premiership
2 Grand Finals

Talk of getting rid of Horse is without doubt the most insane suggestion I have heard in here ever (and that is saying something)...

Having said that I am hoping that having Kirky back might freshen us up a bit tactically and that me might become a bit more unpredictable next year

[Conor_Dillon]

...just because he doesn't present well in the media

I've always found him to be great in the media..where does this comment come from?

[Levii3]

I've always found him to be great in the media..where does this comment come from?

It was in response to the first comment by longmile saying he's not quick on his feet. I think he's good in the media post match i think like all coaches he doesn't want to be there his mid week pressers are usually better

[6'2, 220, 4.53]

Despite coaching us to a premiership I've never been to sold on Longmire. He doesnt seem to be able to think quickly on his feet or seems to rely soley on a Plan A. Dew has been sitting in the wings for a few years now and with Kirky back surely the time to change reins would be now or next year and would freshen up our gamestyle which this year seemed to stagnate a bit while the game changed to a more offensive style.

The Swans Board and Executive have a different view on Longmire.

Essendon contacted Andrew Ireland and asked if Longmire could be contacted about the Essendon coaching job. Ireland told Essendon that Horse would not be released from his contract.

If the Board and CEO did not believe Longmire was the man going forward then they would have allowed Essendon to talk to Longmire.

[Bloods05]

The Swans Board and Executive have a different view on Longmire.

Essendon contacted Andrew Ireland and asked if Longmire could be contacted about the Essendon coaching job. Ireland told Essendon that Horse would not be released from his contract.

If the Board and CEO did not believe Longmire was the man going forward then they would have allowed Essendon to talk to Longmire.

Dare you to tell us how you know all that.

[6'2, 220, 4.53]

Dare you to tell us how you know all that.

Caroline Wilson.

As Paul Roos would say "Here it is":

www.smh.com.au - John Worsfold steps up bid to win Essendon coaching job (http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/john-worsfold-steps-up-bid-to-win-essendon-coaching-job-20150929-gjxm9y.html?skin=text-only)

You know Bloods05 that I only deal in facts! Caro is fact.

[Ludwig]

Just for the record, Longmire has twice won the AFL Coaches Association's Coach of the Year Award, 2012 and 2014. Alastair Clarkson has never won the award. You might argue that awards don't mean much (given that Obama and Kissinger have each won the Nobel Peace Prize), but it does recognize that Horse is highly regarded by his peers.

I don't think there is as much variation in game plans as some people imagine. The better coaches find a plan that their players are capable of executing. I've noted the Swans' trying to play a style similar the the Bulldogs at times (Collingwood game was the best example), but we struggled to string together enough effective disposals to make it work.

It's hard to say how our game plan was working by the end of the season because we had so many key players out injured and we kicked so poorly, especially for goal, in our 2 finals games.

[Untamed Snark]

Caroline Wilson.

As Paul Roos would say "Here it is":

www.smh.com.au - John Worsfold steps up bid to win Essendon coaching job (http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/john-worsfold-steps-up-bid-to-win-essendon-coaching-job-20150929-gjxm9y.html?skin=text-only)

You know Bloods05 that I only deal in facts! Caro is fact.

That's not how you spell it :hmmmm2:

[chalbilto]

Just for the record, Longmire has twice won the AFL Coaches Association's Coach of the Year Award, 2012 and 2014. Alastair Clarkson has never won the award. You might argue that awards don't mean much (given that Obama and Kissinger have each won the Nobel Peace Prize), but it does recognize that Horse is highly regarded by his peers.

I don't think there is as much variation in game plans as some people imagine. The better coaches find a plan that their players are capable of executing. I've noted the Swans' trying to play a style similar the the Bulldogs at times (Collingwood game was the best example), but we struggled to string together enough effective disposals to make it work.

It's hard to say how our game plan was working by the end of the season because we had so many key players out injured and we kicked so poorly, especially for goal, in our 2 finals games.


What some of the posters here fail to acknowledge is the impact that injuries paid to our finals campaign. Just imagine how Hawthorn had of gone if Mitchell, Hodge, Gunsten & Roughhead together with a ruckman with dicky knees didn't play in the finals. Remember we had Parker, Jack, Buddy, Reid all out with injuries as well as Pyke struggling with his knees. Let's have a look at our game plan when everyone is fit. I do concede that kicking skills and decision making do need attention and these areas should be addressed over summer.

[Molly dooker]

Hey all, what's happening on the AJ front. Anybody heard of the reco was a success? Is he running yet?

[mcs]

Hey all, what's happening on the AJ front. Anybody heard of the reco was a success? Is he running yet?

I thought I read somewhere the other day that he was due to have the reco this week or next week? So nowhere near running.

2017 should be the target for him, should it all go right for him (Fingers, toes and everything crossed!)

[WauchopeAnalyst]

For the positive people please explain the Round 16 result against Hawthorn. I know it is a repeat of the 2014 GF, but please tell me what has happened! What excuse is it this time?

I will tell you. We buckle under pressure.

[stevoswan]

Just for the record, Longmire has twice won the AFL Coaches Association's Coach of the Year Award, 2012 and 2014. Alastair Clarkson has never won the award. You might argue that awards don't mean much (given that Obama and Kissinger have each won the Nobel Peace Prize), but it does recognize that Horse is highly regarded by his peers.

I don't think there is as much variation in game plans as some people imagine. The better coaches find a plan that their players are capable of executing. I've noted the Swans' trying to play a style similar the the Bulldogs at times (Collingwood game was the best example), but we struggled to string together enough effective disposals to make it work.

It's hard to say how our game plan was working by the end of the season because we had so many key players out injured and we kicked so poorly, especially for goal, in our 2 finals games.

I believe they must look more at what a coach has achieved with his available list, not what a coach, who has a list heads and shoulders above everyone else, should rightly achieve, ie; Clarkson/Hawks. If Hawthorn were to win this award, they would probably pass it on to their recruiters.......or maybe Gillon for making their life so easy:rolleyes:. It could be the coaches see the current situation for what it really is, skewed in Hawthorn's favour.

[Bloods05]

For the positive people please explain the Round 16 result against Hawthorn. I know it is a repeat of the 2014 GF, but please tell me what has happened! What excuse is it this time?

I will tell you. We buckle under pressure.

I will tell you what happened: we buckled under pressure.

What we need to do is: stop buckling and stand up.

Does that make me a positive person?

[WauchopeAnalyst]

If we play the same game, positions, tactics around stoppages, our defence then we are in trouble. How many times will you accept failure.

We will only win if everything works for us. Pressure from Bulldogs, Freo, Geelong, WC, 1/2 a game against Richmond, and the Hawks is enough to beat us.

Explain how we are going to win and i will get on board but apart from the players I cant see anything close to the Hawks.

P.S. Nobody, publicly, wants to come to Sydney.

[Levii3]

One step to getting to another Premiership is getting in a new coach specifically for stoppages. Think this is the first time i've seen a Swans side not win the contested ball wish is what the Sydney brand has been built on

[Melbourne_Blood]

Well, just as well that we have a coach who has achieved the fopllowing in his forst 5 seasons

5 consecutive Finals Series
4 Consecutive Top 4 ladder finishes
1 premiership
1 minor premiership
2 Grand Finals

Talk of getting rid of Horse is without doubt the most insane suggestion I have heard in here ever (and that is saying something)...

Having said that I am hoping that having Kirky back might freshen us up a bit tactically and that me might become a bit more unpredictable next year

Not sure how much of a tactician Kirky is ( he could be, I have no idea) but his ability to inspire would be handy. Remember his 3 qtr time huddle rev ups in the 'bloods era' of 2004-2007 or so, they seemed to nearly always get a response out of the team.

[Mug Punter]

Not sure how much of a tactician Kirky is ( he could be, I have no idea) but his ability to inspire would be handy. Remember his 3 qtr time huddle rev ups in the 'bloods era' of 2004-2007 or so, they seemed to nearly always get a response out of the team.

I think he will really have a strong impact on the playing group, I think he is a pretty creative thinker and he'll hopefully bring some fresh ideas.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Thanyou Levii3, MB, MP for constructive comments. Kirk will improve leadership but do Macca and Kizza give as enough since 2012/13.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Thanyou Levii3, MB, MP for constructive comments. Kirk will improve leadership but do Macca and Kizza give as enough since 2012/13.

Probably not. On field both have been at times fantastic leaders up until that day in 2014 and a few times in 2015. Not sure they are capable of dragging our side over the line though. Parker or Kennedy or both should be our next captain(s)

[S.S. Bleeder]

[/B]

What some of the posters here fail to acknowledge is the impact that injuries paid to our finals campaign. Just imagine how Hawthorn had of gone if Mitchell, Hodge, Gunsten & Roughhead together with a ruckman with dicky knees didn't play in the finals. Remember we had Parker, Jack, Buddy, Reid all out with injuries as well as Pyke struggling with his knees. Let's have a look at our game plan when everyone is fit. I do concede that kicking skills and decision making do need attention and these areas should be addressed over summer.
+1


Hey all, what's happening on the AJ front. Anybody heard of the reco was a success? Is he running yet?

I think it was delayed. Might be in a week or two.

[Mug Punter]

Thanyou Levii3, MB, MP for constructive comments. Kirk will improve leadership but do Macca and Kizza give as enough since 2012/13.

I felt that Kizza had a pretty good season, he still does a hell of a lot off the ball and tackling, I reckon he has one season left before he starts to wane. Maaca is on the wane I am afraid but I believe he can do a role for the team, maybe floating on the half forward line.

Not a great drama as it happens to the best but who will step up? Parker is a gun already but I'd throw him in the guts full time next year. Heeney will improve no doubt and Mills could be out of the box (big expectations I know).

In terms of who we can get more out of I reckon Mitchell can very quickly go to elite level. Of the bottom 6 in the 22 I see Rampe and Towers as two players with loads of potential

[Auntie.Gerald]

when i look at the strengths of the Hawks out of their backline is see a great combo of

players with kicks that are extremely penetrating and can help them get that long pass into a less pressure area - Suckling, Hodge, Dureya etc

then of course their great one on one KPPs and their plus 1 defence

..............

For me i think we don't have enough players with penetrating kicks

we are weaker then Hawks 2015 for KPP depth

we are weaker in run and carry players also now we have lost Jetts, Mal and Shaw

[Ludwig]

We are being rated (by bookies) at around a 10-1 shot for the flag next year. I think that's a fair assessment. It's really not as bad as it seems. It's difficult to win a premiership under any conditions and Hawthorn have easily disposed of the past 3 challengers in the GF. WCE have improved their list with the Jetta acquisition and will get their 2 best key defenders back from injury.

I can understand how those outside the club see lots of holes in our list, but I think it's more that we have a number of players with little experience that we will depend upon to step up if we are to make a serious challenge for the title. An objective observer would say that's not likely to happen. Usually clubs with lots of players with under 50 games experience don't win premierships.

Our coaching staff should approach next year as the beginning of a 3 year period to challenge for another premiership. We will have to give substantial game time to several players with little or not experience, in some cases, just to see how they perform, in others to give them badly needed experience in preparation for 2017 and beyond.



Jones, Mills and Hewett should all be very good players and should get a more than just a handful of games next year. Jones is probably ready for a regular starting position. He could be used as a defensive (run with) midfielder to help his development. He has the tools to do that well. Both of our captains did lots of time in that role in their early years.
I think we need someone like Rohan to provide rebound out of defense. We might try Nic Newman and see how that goes, which means that Towers, Heeney and Cunningham will need to have big years providing small forward options to compliment our formidable tall forward line.
I would like to see us fast track Abe Davis and try to get him a dozen games next year, most likely as a forward. This could give us a bit more flexibility with Reid in that he could move to defense if needed.
We need to find 2 good players out of Xav Richards, Aliir, Melican and a reconstructed AJ, with the latter 2 likely to remain questionable even after next season.
It would be nice to get a healthy year from Naismith and see progress with Nankervis. Naismith looks to have the traits of a high quality mobile ruckman who can also win more than his share of the ruck contests. Nanka will take a few years to develop.


If we remain in the top 4 and see most of our inexperienced players make good progress, then I would call it a successful year. It will be a bit reminiscent of 2011, which I found quite enjoyable because can you see something good was happening. A lot has to go right, particularly with players like Rohan and Towers for us to have a real crack at a premiership next year. The 10-1 odds seem about right that all these pieces will come together well, but it's not out of the question.

[Conor_Dillon]

Agree with most of that Ludwig, but I'd like to see Heeney start to play more midfield minutes (if the coaching staff think he's physically ready). It will give us an extra dimension with his marking ability around the ground and it will also allow guys like Joey and Parks to spend more time inside 50.

Also, I'd prefer to see Rohan playing more off a wing and even some midfield time if his endurance allows it. His explosiveness off the mark and tackling ability will also give us a bit more x-factor in the middle.

Hawthorn have shown the benefits of having 8-10 guys capable of attending centre bounces, whereas we are reluctant to go outside of our core 5-6.

[Levii3]

Zac Jones can provide similar run and carry as Shaw maybe not consistently but with more games he would be good in the HB line. Gary Rohan would be perfect for a role similar to Gunston but he doesn't have a tank.

I love Teddy but i hope what happen to ROK happens to Ted and he plays Resserves the second half of the season which would mean X would have taken his spot in the team which is what you want young players taking the spot of older ones and not just hanging around and waiting for them to retire (Ted should have retired)

We were never considered favourites in 2005 or 2012 it won't really effect us

Mills will spend more time in the Midfield than Heeney next year Heeney is just too good forward can kick 30 goals next year

[Conor_Dillon]

Mills will spend more time in the Midfield than Heeney next year Heeney is just too good forward can kick 30 goals next year

I think Mills will be a genuine star of the competition but I doubt he will be leap-frogging any of our current mids straight away. He will most likely come in and play a similar role to Heeney this year, or potentially even off half-back.

Thankfully his debut won't be in that horrid green vest! :clap:

[Markus26]

Has anyone heard a word on Bird? Are we fishing for possible suitors or is he staying? I just can't see him playing another game for the seniors.

[Ludwig]

Agree with most of that Ludwig, but I'd like to see Heeney start to play more midfield minutes (if the coaching staff think he's physically ready). It will give us an extra dimension with his marking ability around the ground and it will also allow guys like Joey and Parks to spend more time inside 50.

Also, I'd prefer to see Rohan playing more off a wing and even some midfield time if his endurance allows it. His explosiveness off the mark and tackling ability will also give us a bit more x-factor in the middle.

Hawthorn have shown the benefits of having 8-10 guys capable of attending centre bounces, whereas we are reluctant to go outside of our core 5-6.

We probably will see more of Heeney in the midfield next year, but most likely as an outside player, mainly because we have other options that are better suited as inside players. We need to get Hewett playing next year. He can play on the outside, but is more suited as an inside midfielder. I think Mills can develop as a backline general although eventually will be destined for the midfield as well. It will be an advantage being able to rotate lots of players through the midfield. It's just a matter of how well our coaches can get the rotations working effectively with so many young players.

I left out Perris in my previous post, who is another clever player. Hopefully he can recover from this series of knee injuries and go on to be valuable player for us.

We've got a lot of talent on our list that outsiders don't see due to lack of senior level exposure. If we catch a break on the injury front, I can see good things happening next year.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

There is were we are as at today. A massive 12 uncontracted players.

7 Senior player and 5 Rookies uncontracted at the end of this year. I just can't find out about Keiran Jack's contract terms

Sam Naismith has been upgraded and Aliir Aliir had an extension of 1 year.

There has to be plenty of movements to extend/delist AJ/BJ/MARSH/HEWETT/ROBINSON/NANKERVIS and Keiran Jack.

Rookies NEWMAN/PERRIS/FOOTE/McLAREN/MELICAN on the chopping block.


1399

We are waiting for the end of trade period before culling but with who?

[lorakf]

Is there a rookie contract rule similar to the full list players that states if the club selects a player under the age of 23, that has not been previously listed at an AFL club, he must be offered a two year deal? If that was the case then Newman, McLaren and Foote would still have another year. Or are all Rookies on one year deals?

[Auntie.Gerald]

i thought Rookies were a 2 year deal ?

[liz]

Generally local rookies are put on one year deals. Internationals must be given two (at least). There can be exceptions. For example, the Swans gave Perris a two year rookie contract to help persuade him to sign with the Swans rather than try his luck in the draft.

[Ludwig]

Generally local rookies are put on one year deals. Internationals must be given two (at least). There can be exceptions. For example, the Swans gave Perris a two year rookie contract to help persuade him to sign with the Swans rather than try his luck in the draft. Do you know if taking O'Riordan automatically expands out list to 45 players, meaning we still have to go with 38 + 6 and the Internationals are in addition to that; or can they be included with the six regular rookies if we wish?

[Auntie.Gerald]

If Adam Treloar is on $750k pa as reported joining the Pies

What would Parker be on going forward with his new contract ?

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Do you know if taking O'Riordan automatically expands out list to 45 players, meaning we still have to go with 38 + 6 and the Internationals are in addition to that; or can they be included with the six regular rookies if we wish?
I thought that international rookies, or B category rookies, don't count. But i am just trying to remember. The rules change all the time.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

If Adam Treloar is on $750k pa as reported joining the Pies

What would Parker be on going forward with his new contract ?
Parker might hear telephone numbers on his contract and start thinking. Everyone (most) has a price.

[Mug Punter]

Parker might hear telephone numbers on his contract and start thinking. Everyone (most) has a price.

There's no reason why we cannot give Luke a very competitive contract with the new TV deal and the flow on effect , I would hope it is a priority as soon as he gets back for pre-season. Sign him up to a five year deal that takes him through to being an unrestricted free agent

[Meg]

Do you know if taking O'Riordan automatically expands out list to 45 players, meaning we still have to go with 38 + 6 and the Internationals are in addition to that; or can they be included with the six regular rookies if we wish?

The rules do keep changing (and some clubs want the rookie list concept to be scrapped altogether, so that there is just one list of senior players that can be used for selection).

However I THINK the current rules are:

. A minimum of 38 and maximum of 40 on senior list (GWS & GCS have had different list specifications, not sure when these fall back)
. No minimum but a maximum of six on rookie list, so a maximum total list of 44 altogether (excluding Category B rookies).
. Up to three additional Category B rookies (which includes international recruits)
. Special rules for Irish rookies (presumably because these are thought to be less speculative recruits) - up to one as a Category B rookie but each additional Irish rookie deemed to be a Category A rookie.

From the above I assume O'Riordan is counted as a Category B rookie. And that the Swans don't HAVE to have a total list of 44.

But I'm not sure what underlies your question.

I think, in general, rookie player payments sit outside the total player payments counted as the salary cap. So I don't see any advantage to the Swans even if they could count O'Riordan as a Category A rookie.

And I particularly don't see any advantage in running with a list of less than 44 in total - although the strategy of only having 38 on the senior list has been very helpful in managing salary cap pressure in recent years.

[liz]

I'd expect most of last year's rookie list to be retained, especially given this is said to be a shallow draft.

Naismith we already know has a contract. We saw little of Melican in 2015 but Harley is clearly a fan. Newman looks to have senior AFL potential. Perris can play, and it would be cruel to cut him loose given his injuries.

I am agnostic on McLaren and Foote. Foote is a reasonable player but looks a bit vanilla to me. He's a bit of a poor man's Dan Robinson. He might get another year but he doesn't really look AFL standard to me. McLaren was pretty ordinary for most of the year but could be saved because of his height.

[Ludwig]

But I'm not sure what underlies your question.
For some reason I thought rookie salaries were included in the cap at 50% of actual. I have no idea on the Internationals. I'm not sure where I got that idea from. My question was first about what gets included in the salary cap and second if there was an obligation to have a minimum number of total players and further whether the B Category players could be part of the total.

I also fully agree with Liz' rookie assessments. I thought Foote did well enough to retain a spot for another year. I was very disappointed with McClaren, but he seemed to do better the rare times he played in defence, so perhaps he too will be spared.

The club seems more concerned about getting through this post season period limiting the damage rather than making any bold moves, which seems to best fit our overall circumstances. Hopefully we will be in a more flexible position next year.

[Meg]

There seem to be quite complex rules rules about Rookie payments in the current CBA, but this I think is relevant:

"Football payments to a Rookie:
(i) while on the Rookie List; and/or
(ii) while on the Primary List to replace a long term injured Player,
shall not be included in the Total Player Payments of an AFL Club provided that if the Rookie remains on the Primary List when the long term injured Player is reinstated to the Primary List, Football Payments received by the Rookie in respect of the period after the long term injured Player is reinstated (�the date of reinstatement�) will be included in the Total Player Payments. Those amounts shall include a monthly pro-rata amount of the base payment calculated from the date of reinstatement and also include all Senior Match payments for Matches played on or after that date."

[Auntie.Gerald]

2016 Team:

B: Smith Richards Laids


HB: Jones Grundy Rampe


C: Harry Kennedy K.Jack


HF: Heeney Tippett Macca


F: Towers Franklin Reid


FOL: SINCLAIR Parker Hannebery


I/C: Mitchell, Lloyd, B.Jack, Rohan


emergencies: McGlynn, TALIA, Hewett, Robo, X,

Mills and Dunks will probably get a game in 2016 also

[Auntie.Gerald]

Callum Mills - 2015 AFL Draft Prospect Highlights - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0Rq0e_LFHw)

callum 2014

- - - Updated - - -

and he plays no13 which is Nankos

- - - Updated - - -

and most importantly do we let Heeney loose in the midfield in 2016 ?

Im starting to believe that with a season and a pre season under his belt and with his incredible skills he is ready......who misses out ?

[Ludwig]

I don't know what the round 1 side will be, but I think this may be the side at mid season:

B: Smith Grundy Talia
HB: Rohan Richards Rampe
C: K.Jack Macca Parker
HF: Heeney Franklin Hannebery
F: Tippett Reid Cunningham
FOL: Naismith Mitchell Kennedy
I/C: Mills Hewett Jones Towers
emergencies: Lloyd McGlynn Robo, Newman, Laidler Sinclair

[Mug Punter]

I don't know what the round 1 side will be, but I think this may be the side at mid season:

B: Smith Grundy Talia
HB: Rohan Richards Rampe
C: K.Jack Macca Parker
HF: Heeney Franklin Hannebery
F: Tippett Reid Cunningham
FOL: Naismith Mitchell Kennedy
I/C: Mills Hewett Jones Towers
emergencies: Lloyd McGlynn Robo, Newman, Laidler Sinclair

I'd like to see that

[Auntie.Gerald]

Ok Ludwig here are my concerns but I am certainly not the oracle when picking teams :)

you've gone with a team with a fair few players out of their customary position and untried talent in Talia and SammyN starting ?

you left Sinclair out even though he proved himself very capable all season in a top 2 team?

Rohan has been a one game success off the HBF?

No Jones to start off the HBF ?

No lloyd ?

HarryC hasn't played much forward pocket but could do it no doubt but who will tag the best outside players in the comp with no Harry and then no Jetta for outside speed on the break........Not much speed in the midfield in general ?

yet I was bullish in placing BJ and Towers in the 22 to become the players I want them to be with their speed :)

[Auntie.Gerald]

PS does anyone else think Brandon could become a tagger / run with player on the outside midfield opposition players ?

I think dumbing down his role as they did for his brother many years ago could work a treat but big call for him to be able to achieve this role week in week out !

[dimelb]

PS does anyone else think Brandon could become a tagger / run with player on the outside midfield opposition players ?

I think dumbing down his role as they did for his brother many years ago could work a treat but big call for him to be able to achieve this role week in week out !

Yes, he could. He is very quick, can tackle and is a decent kick. I'd like to see more of him in the firsts.

[Melbourne_Blood]

I don't know what the round 1 side will be, but I think this may be the side at mid season:

B: Smith Grundy Talia
HB: Rohan Richards Rampe
C: K.Jack Macca Parker
HF: Heeney Franklin Hannebery
F: Tippett Reid Cunningham
FOL: Naismith Mitchell Kennedy
I/C: Mills Hewett Jones Towers
emergencies: Lloyd McGlynn Robo, Newman, Laidler Sinclair

Definitely some X factor in that side!

[dejavoodoo44]

I don't know what the round 1 side will be, but I think this may be the side at mid season:

B: Smith Grundy Talia
HB: Rohan Richards Rampe
C: K.Jack Macca Parker
HF: Heeney Franklin Hannebery
F: Tippett Reid Cunningham
FOL: Naismith Mitchell Kennedy
I/C: Mills Hewett Jones Towers
emergencies: Lloyd McGlynn Robo, Newman, Laidler Sinclair

Yes, I'd certainly like to see Rohan having a dash off the halfback flank.

[longmile]

2016 Team:

B: Smith Richards Laids


HB: Jones Grundy Rampe


C: Harry Kennedy K.Jack


HF: Heeney Tippett Macca


F: Towers Franklin Reid


FOL: SINCLAIR Parker Hannebery


I/C: Mitchell, Lloyd, B.Jack, Rohan


emergencies: McGlynn, TALIA, Hewett, Robo, X,

Mills and Dunks will probably get a game in 2016 also

I'd imagine this would be the team that lines up round 1, except I'd imagine Longmire would put a fully fit McGlynn ahead of BJ and Lloyd.

[Mug Punter]

There's two players I'd like to see given an extended run from the first round provided they tick all the boxes in pre-season and they are Towers and BJ.

I know I am his chief cheerleader but I really believe Towers has the ability to have a breakout season next year, he plays very tall (just realised he holds the combine stationery vertical leap record) and he is just something different to other players and we need his unpredictability, plus I just love his story and the way we have perservered with him. Horse said after his game against Gold Coast (I think) that what he does in training is quality and he just needs to believe he can do it in the match.

I like the idea of giving BJ the tagger role, I liked his late season development but next year could be make or break.

Zak Jones should continue his development and I'd hope he has first shot at Shaw's spot - he seemed to make some silly errors which he needs to rub out but next year will hopefully be the one where he plays 18-22 games and finally arrives.

I would think Mills will slot in pretty much straight away a la Heeney and I'd like to see Heeney off the half forward flank.

Talia's inclusion makes our backline look a lot more solid and I like the balance of a back 6 of Ted, Reg, Smith, Rampe, Talia and Jones but don't be surprised in Laidler's rises to the challenge and plays every game either, he is one of the most underrated players in the side and I just love the way he goes about his footy.

All we need then is for Hewett, Sam and maybe Abe to play 8-12 senior games each and maybe for Dunks to be knocking on the door and we'll have the depth that seemed to be missing a bit this year.

I hate off season

[Ludwig]

Yes, I'd certainly like to see Rohan having a dash off the halfback flank.At this point in time Rohan seems more needed off halfback to add some dash on the rebound. I think Heeney will stay in the forward line for a few years as Hewett, Jones, Mills and Dunkley are more natural inside players and don't offer what Heeney does on the outside. We have lots of players contending for small/mid size forward roles including Towers, Rose, Hiscox, BJ and the veteran McGlynn, and none of them are natural backline players. Our best hope for adding some halfback dash besides Rohan is Nic Newman. Harry Marsh, if retained (and I hope he is), does have the pace and penetrating kick to fill the role, but so far has been working more on the defensive side of his game. And we have to wait and see about the Irishman O'Riordan.

There are some other possibilities for the backline. Macca has played well there before, but wasn't that good last season and doesn't exactly provide much pace; Jones is quick enough, but not in the class of Rohan; Mills played halfback for a while in the reserves and looked okay, but I think Mills will look fine just about anywhere on the ground.

Towers may be the key to it all. If he can keep improving and hold down a forward spot, then it frees up Rohan to play elsewhere. If not, we may need Gazza up forward.

[RogueSwan]

..... Talia's inclusion makes our backline look a lot more solid and I like the balance of a back 6 of Ted, Reg, Smith, Rampe, Talia and Jones but don't be surprised in Laidler's rises to the challenge and plays every game either, he is one of the most underrated players in the side and I just love the way he goes about his footy...


It would be unusual for Talia to not play from the beginning as has generally been the case for new players brought in. I still hope Laids stays in as he definitely turned a corner last year. He plays hard and does not give up. I don't know what we get with Talia but I like what we get with Laids.

[RogueSwan]

...
There are some other possibilities for the backline. Macca has played well there before, but wasn't that good last season and doesn't exactly provide much pace; Jones is quick enough, but not in the class of Rohan; Mills played halfback for a while in the reserves and looked okay, but I think Mills will look fine just about anywhere on the ground.
....

I don't think we definitely need leg speed more someone with a really good kick. Shaw had speed but often got us nowhere because he would kick it to the opposition. Malceski wasn't necessarily fast but he had a very good, penetrating kick.
Who on the team can provide that? Macca? Yes. Maybe even Heeney? From what I have seen of his kicking, often to Buddy, he is good. Rohan? I think it would be like going back to Shaw but with better tackling skills.
Hodge has been one of the best half backs in recent times and he is by no means considered fast.

[Ludwig]

I don't think we definitely need leg speed more someone with a really good kick. Shaw had speed but often got us nowhere because he would kick it to the opposition. Malceski wasn't necessarily fast but he had a very good, penetrating kick.
Who on the team can provide that? Macca? Yes. Maybe even Heeney? From what I have seen of his kicking, often to Buddy, he is good. Rohan? I think it would be like going back to Shaw but with better tackling skills.
Hodge has been one of the best half backs in recent times and he is by no means considered fast. I won't disagree with you there. I was in fact thinking of adding a similar line in my last post. I can't decide what the best spot for Macca will be next year. Halfback seems most natural, but he made some terrible kicking blunders this year that I hope was an aberration. Nic Newman is the one that best fits the bill as he's the closest thing we've got to a Malceski. I hope he has a solid pre-season and we give him a go at halfback. It would really go a long way to giving our defence a boost.

[YvonneH]

I don't know what the round 1 side will be, but I think this may be the side at mid season:

B: Smith Grundy Talia
HB: Rohan Richards Rampe
C: K.Jack Macca Parker
HF: Heeney Franklin Hannebery
F: Tippett Reid Cunningham
FOL: Naismith Mitchell Kennedy
I/C: Mills Hewett Jones Towers
emergencies: Lloyd McGlynn Robo, Newman, Laidler Sinclair

The 3 R's off HB ala reading, riting, rithmatic (just joking with the spelling).

[Conor_Dillon]

I believe Rampe will be given a much more attacking role this year with the inclusion of Talia to the backline.

He has the pace, power, agility and penetration to be an 80-90 metre player coming out of the backline which we will be crying out for given Jetta's absence.

I know he has been somewhat pidgeon-holed to the backline at this stage, but I still think Jones -if he has the tank- will be a great addition to our midfield. He has the raw aggression and attack on the ball/man that will really give us a much harder edge at contests. He is also really clean below his knees - absolutely no reason he can't become a faster, more skilled version of his big brother!

[111431]

I believe Rampe will be given a much more attacking role this year with the inclusion of Talia to the backline.

He has the pace, power, agility and penetration to be an 80-90 metre player coming out of the backline which we will be crying out for given Jetta's absence.

I know he has been somewhat pidgeon-holed to the backline at this stage, but I still think Jones -if he has the tank- will be a great addition to our midfield. He has the raw aggression and attack on the ball/man that will really give us a much harder edge at contests. He is also really clean below his knees - absolutely no reason he can't become a faster, more skilled version of his big brother!

needs to temper his temper !

[RogueSwan]

I believe Rampe will be given a much more attacking role this year with the inclusion of Talia to the backline.

He has the pace, power, agility and penetration to be an 80-90 metre player coming out of the backline which we will be crying out for given Jetta's absence.

I know he has been somewhat pidgeon-holed to the backline at this stage, but I still think Jones -if he has the tank- will be a great addition to our midfield. He has the raw aggression and attack on the ball/man that will really give us a much harder edge at contests. He is also really clean below his knees - absolutely no reason he can't become a faster, more skilled version of his big brother!

I agree with both.
I would be more confident giving Rampe an attacking/rebounding role than his current more defensive role.


needs to temper his temper !

Don't we need someone who rides that line of almost losing it but not. Hell, Dawks having been jumping over that line for years and it hasn't hurt them.

[Conor_Dillon]

We definitely need more physical intimidation from our midfield...here's hoping Parker and Jones will deliver for that for the best part of the next decade. Heeney seems to have a bit of it in him as well.

[barry]

I think talia will be one of the best pickups of the 2017.

[Mug Punter]

I believe Rampe will be given a much more attacking role this year with the inclusion of Talia to the backline.

He has the pace, power, agility and penetration to be an 80-90 metre player coming out of the backline which we will be crying out for given Jetta's absence.

I know he has been somewhat pidgeon-holed to the backline at this stage, but I still think Jones -if he has the tank- will be a great addition to our midfield. He has the raw aggression and attack on the ball/man that will really give us a much harder edge at contests. He is also really clean below his knees - absolutely no reason he can't become a faster, more skilled version of his big brother!

Rampe has improved every single year he has been on the list, despite a few wobbles this season, the only thing with him is if thinks he has made it he may plateau, he needs to feel he is playing for his spot every game.

I think he could also be good off the HBF he has an absolute peach of a left foot

[Conor_Dillon]

Rampe has improved every single year he has been on the list, despite a few wobbles this season, the only thing with him is if thinks he has made it he may plateau, he needs to feel he is playing for his spot every game.

I think he could also be good off the HBF he has an absolute peach of a left foot

Rampe is also really physically strong and hard to tackle, combine that with his sharp turning circle and evasiveness and there's no reason he can't be a real weapon for us in 2016. I just hope the coaches instil enough confidence in him to be able to take the game on, like he used to before he was forced to play on taller opponents.

[RogueSwan]

... like he used to before he was forced to play on taller opponents.
This

[dimelb]

We definitely need more physical intimidation from our midfield...here's hoping Parker and Jones will deliver for that for the best part of the next decade. Heeney seems to have a bit of it in him as well.

There is a real need for a bit of hostility at times. We saw what's involved the first time we played hawthorn this season, when it appeared that the boys had been told not to put up with any "unsocial" tactics. The one that struck me (so to speak) was when Jordan Lewis tried it on fairly early in the match and was confronted by two or three aroused opponents. From that point on it was clear that we would not be stood over, and I'm sure it was a factor in the win. It needs to be part of our repertoire.

[RogueSwan]

There is a real need for a bit of hostility at times. We saw what's involved the first time we played hawthorn this season, when it appeared that the boys had been told not to put up with any "unsocial" tactics. The one that struck me (so to speak) was when Jordan Lewis tried it on fairly early in the match and was confronted by two or three aroused opponents. From that point on it was clear that we would not be stood over, and I'm sure it was a factor in the win. It needs to be part of our repertoire.

Hopefully Sinclair can bring back a bit of mongrel that has been missing since Mummy departed. I think that is why I was hoping TomD would be given more of a chance, he wasn't afraid to play a bit of bash 'n' crash. Both our premiership teams had a ruck that was happy throwing around a little weight, Jason "Canon" Ball and more so Mummy.

[Mountain Man]

I've just watched the 1.20 minute highlight reel of Talia on the Swans site. He kicked a few goals, and took comfortable marks, but would be well behind Laids on that limited showing.

[Conor_Dillon]

There is a real need for a bit of hostility at times. We saw what's involved the first time we played hawthorn this season, when it appeared that the boys had been told not to put up with any "unsocial" tactics. The one that struck me (so to speak) was when Jordan Lewis tried it on fairly early in the match and was confronted by two or three aroused opponents. From that point on it was clear that we would not be stood over, and I'm sure it was a factor in the win. It needs to be part of our repertoire.

Funny you should mention that game! I just watched the last quarter and a half on Fox Footy's 'cliff-hangers'.

That was definitely the most aggressive we've been in recent memory...needs to be a benchmark as opposed to an anomaly! Other points:

- Reid was really good, he definitely has the potential to be one our key players in 2016 and with a bit of confidence I've got no doubt he will be.

- Lloyd was also great, super clean below his knees, disposal was efficient and never stopped running his backside off.

- We desperately need Parker and McGlynn fit and in form...two of our toughest, most hard at it players.

- If we don't use him in the backline, McVeigh could be a great permanent small forward. Natural goal-kicker and really strong in one on one contests.

- We're going to miss Goodesy and Jets =(

[Conor_Dillon]

I've just watched the 1.20 minute highlight reel of Talia on the Swans site. He kicked a few goals, and took comfortable marks, but would be well behind Laids on that limited showing.

Agreed that it was an ordinary looking 'highlights reel' but he's a vastly different player than Laids. Plays a lot taller, definitely a lot faster and finds a fair bit more of the footy. Statistically, he had some pretty awesome games for the dogs this year. Probably needs to bulk up a little bit to compete with the big gorilla forwards but he's only 22 so that will come with time.

I know Ugg isn't his biggest fan, but I'm really bullish about Talia...as long as he comes with the right attitude (which has been questioned for obvious reasons) I've got no doubt we can turn him into a solid, 10 year KPD.

[undy]

Agreed that it was an ordinary looking 'highlights reel' but he's a vastly different player than Laids. Plays a lot taller, definitely a lot faster and finds a fair bit more of the footy. Statistically, he had some pretty awesome games for the dogs this year. Probably needs to bulk up a little bit to compete with the big gorilla forwards but he's only 22 so that will come with time.

I know Ugg isn't his biggest fan, but I'm really bullish about Talia...as long as he comes with the right attitude (which has been questioned for obvious reasons) I've got no doubt we can turn him into a solid, 10 year KPD.
My doggies supporting fans thought he was pretty good for them and were bemused over the leak allegations. I'm positive.

[dejavoodoo44]

At this point in time Rohan seems more needed off halfback to add some dash on the rebound. I think Heeney will stay in the forward line for a few years as Hewett, Jones, Mills and Dunkley are more natural inside players and don't offer what Heeney does on the outside. We have lots of players contending for small/mid size forward roles including Towers, Rose, Hiscox, BJ and the veteran McGlynn, and none of them are natural backline players. Our best hope for adding some halfback dash besides Rohan is Nic Newman. Harry Marsh, if retained (and I hope he is), does have the pace and penetrating kick to fill the role, but so far has been working more on the defensive side of his game. And we have to wait and see about the Irishman O'Riordan.

There are some other possibilities for the backline. Macca has played well there before, but wasn't that good last season and doesn't exactly provide much pace; Jones is quick enough, but not in the class of Rohan; Mills played halfback for a while in the reserves and looked okay, but I think Mills will look fine just about anywhere on the ground.

Towers may be the key to it all. If he can keep improving and hold down a forward spot, then it frees up Rohan to play elsewhere. If not, we may need Gazza up forward.
Yes, Towers is interesting. Earlier in the season, he was probably the only one of our players that I had bagged on this forum, but towards the end of the season, I was thinking that I may have been a bit premature. Hopefully he can keep on improving: maybe it's the old thing of a player getting enough games to feel that they belong and then that extra confidence giving them a lift in performance.
And maybe it's a bit that way with Rohan, as he never quite seems to play enough games without being injured, to truly establish himself in the side. It would be nice if next year is an injury free year for him. Then I do think that he would develop into a genuinely elite player. Especially if he is given a chance to play the same position week after week: preferably half back flank. I mean, if he really got going, his dash would probably start to remind me of Kennelly at his peak. With a touch of Leaping Leo harem scarem thrown in. He is also excellent at run down tackling pressure. While his pace also means that he can spoil forwards, when they weren't expecting to be spoilt. All up, something to look forward to.

[dejavoodoo44]

My doggies supporting fans thought he was pretty good for them and were bemused over the leak allegations. I'm positive.
Yes, I also like the Talia trade: especially with Ted and Reg reaching the stage of their careers, where their speed may start to slip and injuries might take a little bit longer to heel.

[dimelb]

Yes, I also like the Talia trade: especially with Ted and Reg reaching the stage of their careers, where their speed may start to slip and injuries might take a little bit longer to heel.

Yes, time wounds all heels! :wink:

[dejavoodoo44]

Yes, time wounds all heels! :wink:

Sit!

[Meg]

Sit!

You've gone barking mad!

[Untamed Snark]

You've gone barking mad!

Don't hound the poor guy

[Conor_Dillon]

You've gone barking mad!

How very cavalier of you...

[dejavoodoo44]

You've gone barking mad!

Dog sings Whitney Houston | Belgium's Got Talent | VTM - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSBq1YjHL6w)

[dimelb]

Absolute hoot! But I had to go here to get it to work:
Dog sings Whitney Houston's 'I Will Always Love You' on Belgium's Got Talent | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3000405/Is-barking-mad-talent-contest-entry-Whitney-Houston-s-Love-sung-DOG-Belgian-TV-audience-love-it.html)

[Melbourne_Blood]

Off season, brace yourself , the ( questionable) puns are coming!!!

[Levii3]

Anyone have any idea when the talia report will be released?

Also regarding Rampe would love to see him more in the midfield next year it seems when he has too much time he over thinks situations, with Goodes and Jetta gone need someone in midfield with genuine speed and explosiveness.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Anyone have any idea when the talia report will be released?

Also regarding Rampe would love to see him more in the midfield next year it seems when he has too much time he over thinks situations, with Goodes and Jetta gone need someone in midfield with genuine speed and explosiveness.

I agree with this, big bodied and with pace! Could do some damage in the guts, if only for short stints.

[Conor_Dillon]

Jesinta Campbell was on the Today Show this morning, was a pretty interesting interview.

Unprompted, she made a point of mentioning how much training Buddy is doing at the moment and how physically fit he is, also basically said 'watch out for him in 2016' - really sounds like he's a man on a mission!

[YvonneH]

Sounds like Jesinta is very good for Buddy as she always has his back, whether it is good publicity or bad.
When are they getting married?

[southsideswan]

Sounds like Jesinta is very good for Buddy as she always has his back, whether it is good publicity or bad.
When are they getting married?
Why spoil a good thing?

[dejavoodoo44]

Off season, brace yourself , the ( questionable) puns are coming!!!

Oh, I don't know, I'm fairly sure that I made a pun sometime during the season. Maybe even more than one.

[Levii3]

Honestly this kid lets just draft someone else instead maybe one of the lesser known academy prospects, even if he is drafted he won't finish his career a swan would be a waste of our time developing him.
Son of Swan Dunkley still tossing up Draft options - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-29/son-of-swan-dunkley-still-tossing-up-draft-options)

[Ludwig]

Honestly this kid lets just draft someone else instead maybe one of the lesser known academy prospects, even if he is drafted he won't finish his career a swan would be a waste of our time developing him.
Son of Swan Dunkley still tossing up Draft options - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-29/son-of-swan-dunkley-still-tossing-up-draft-options)I am sure a decision has already been made. He's had all year to think about. How much more will he learn in the next 3 weeks. It may be a strategy to wait till the last minute for Dunkley to nominate, because most clubs will have made up their draft prospects lists by then and might leave Dunkley out of consideration given the uncertainty of his FS status.

[Levii3]

I am sure a decision has already been made. He's had all year to think about. How much more will he learn in the next 3 weeks. It may be a strategy to wait till the last minute for Dunkley to nominate, because most clubs will have made up their draft prospects lists by then and might leave Dunkley out of consideration given the uncertainty of his FS status.

Thats a good point but the way it looks to clubs outside is he is going to with a little bit of resistance and he will be targeted by Melbourne clubs from his first year like Aish and they're going to wave the "Family" card at him

[Ludwig]

Thats a good point but the way it looks to clubs outside is he is going to with a little bit of resistance and he will be targeted by Melbourne clubs from his first year like Aish and they're going to wave the "Family" card at himBut that's true for every non local player. Hanners and Parker have been targeted, so what's the difference here. If Dunkley does in fact choose the Swans, then he's making a choice to leave Victoria, something these other didn't have the opportunity to do; they just got drafted by a non-Victorian club whether they liked it or not.

One of my own arguments for passing on Mills if, for example, Carlton went mad and use pick 1 on him, is that he will clearly be targeted by the Swans and would likely want to be traded back to Sydney.

[Melbourne_Blood]

I'm sure there was a de listings thread but I couldn't find it. Little bit sad to see Lloyd Perris was delisted by the club. Horrible run with injury, and from all reports might have been a pretty decent player if his body had have held up.

[Conor_Dillon]

Bored at work, our team-list is just about done...why not attempt another potential 2016 team?


B: Smith Grundy Richards

HB: Rampe Talia McVeigh

C: Lloyd Hannebery Rohan

HF: Heeney Franklin Reid

F: McGlynn Tippett K.Jack

Fol: Sinclair Kennedy Parker

Int: Towers Mitchell Cunningham Jones



Emg: Mills Laidler B.Jack


- Laidler very stiff to miss, but with Talia in and less rotations I opted for an extra running player on the bench

- I think the two S.A boys (Rose and Hewett) will push really hard for games in '16...both natural footballers with a heap of talent, excited about both of them.

- If Mills body can handle the pre-season then he will be a likely starter in Round 1...maybe in place of Towers on the bench.

I'm not as concerned about our supposed lack of depth as others...sure, a lot of it is untried but that hardly means they're not up to it. Can't wait for next season already!

[Auntie.Gerald]

listening to James Francou...........I couldn't help but think how he leans significantly towards KJ playing 50% up front ........

2015 Review: Kieren Jack - sydneyswans.com.au (http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/video/2015-11-04/2015-review-kieren-jack)

[Auntie.Gerald]

Did Talia sign for Two Years ?

[S.S. Bleeder]

listening to James Francou...........I couldn't help but think how he leans significantly towards KJ playing 50% up front ........

2015 Review: Kieren Jack - sydneyswans.com.au (http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/video/2015-11-04/2015-review-kieren-jack)

If they do I hope he practices his right foot kicking beforehand. A small forward needs to be able to kick off both.

[churry]

If they do I hope he practices his right foot kicking beforehand. A small forward needs to be able to kick off both.

Shouldn't all AFL players be able to kick off both...

[dejavoodoo44]

listening to James Francou...........I couldn't help but think how he leans significantly towards KJ playing 50% up front ........

2015 Review: Kieren Jack - sydneyswans.com.au (http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/video/2015-11-04/2015-review-kieren-jack)

I'm not sure if I really want to see Kizza spending more time up forward, since the thing that impressed me most about him last year, especially the latter half of the season, was his gut running. This was particularly impressive, when he was breaking from the back half of the field to make himself an attacking option.

[Velour&Ruffles]

listening to James Francou...........I couldn't help but think how he leans significantly towards KJ playing 50% up front ........


I'm sure the opinions of the star of Oz the Great and Powerful are important to our club's fortunes, but I'd still prefer to hear what our assistant coach Josh Francou has to say. But that's just me.

[RogueSwan]

... when he was breaking from the back half of the field to make himself an attacking option.
Well, that is where our forward line starts from. I mean, who puts forwards forward of their <span style="text-decoration:line-through;">F50</span> D50? :tongue:

[Conor_Dillon]

Interesting that nobody invited Mitch Brown or Michael Hartley to train with them...could be clubs not wanting to give away how keen they are because surely they'll both be picked up in either the PSD or rookie drafts.

[PerthSwannie]

Looks like Talia and Sinclair are gunna be roommates in Sydney. Two new young faces in the team. I`m excited for 2016. Talia touches down - sydneyswans.com.au (http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2015-11-05/talia-touches-down)

[dejavoodoo44]

Looks like Talia and Sinclair are gunna be roommates in Sydney. Two new young faces in the team. I`m excited for 2016. Talia touches down - sydneyswans.com.au (http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2015-11-05/talia-touches-down)
Yes, I'm quite keen on 2016. Has anyone down the count of how many days to till the start of the NAB Cup yet?

[aardvark]

Yes, I'm quite keen on 2016. Has anyone down the count of how many days to till the start of the NAB Cup yet?

103 until our first game.:smile:

[liz]

Off topic posts have been moved to a separate thread in the general sports forum.

[wolftone57]

It is quite stunning how Hawthorn have had the last 3 grand finals done and dusted by halftime. Everyone knows what's coming, but seem helpless to stop it.

We have a strong team that should perform well if we can have a good run with injuries, but I think history shows that the reliance we will have on players with less than 50 games to perform at a high level is unlikely to eventuate in a premiership, even though the quality is certainly there.

It goes without saying that Buddy, Tippo and Reid will all need to have strong years relatively free of injury. The likes of Heeney, Towers and Cunningham could well make up the rest of our forward line. All are capable of having strong seasons despite their lack of experience. How this forward line performs could forge our destiny for 2016.


Our list and talent is evolving and our game plan will have to evolve with it. But in the end we still have to execute our skills with high precision. That was missing last year and we can only wait to see if it improves next year.


Watching many of the replays of games I can agree with some of what you say about execution of skills. But what concerned me was the lack of intensity at crucial times in games, games we actually won. there was more intensity toward the end of the year but less skill but before the break we had the skill levels up for a half and down for a half but it was the intensity level that caused the skill level to lower. It's as though our players play one quarter then stop and have a Kit Kat. I think it was the fitness level. We started later than all the other clubs at preseason, including Hawthorn. this year we are latest again and don't start until two weeks after the majority and a week after the GF sides. What is that about? You'd think after a lot of injuries and suspect fitness levels last year we might be able to start a little earlier. I'm pretty sure the group wouldn't mind.

I think for Reid to have a good year his role has to be defined. He can no longer be in limbo. I think Buddy has to play as a FP or flanker and Reid CHF. Bud can take FF when Tip is in the ruck and Sinclair can either be pocket or bench. Tip will also get more of a chance to rest as well. Towers started to show just what he brings to the table and I'm really looking forward to him stepping up again in 2016. His latter part of the year was pretty good and if he can do that every week we have found a really good player. We need to be careful with Benny, he has proven to be a bit injury prone as he gets older. I'm a bit worried about his role this year. I like Heeney in the forward line. He will be a huge mid for us but he could provide the X factor next year on the HFF. Rooster is a forward or winger. Can kick very long goals and if he gets hid kicking right will be massive in 2016. I think the forward line has the makings of a high scoring unit. Add the resting mids, especially Parks, and you have very high scoring capacity. I think Parks could kick 30-40 if he played more forward. With the options we now have in the forward line it is going to be very hard to keep our boys down...depending on mids delivery.

Teddy is getting to the end, it was obvious last year, that is why we recruited Talia instead of waiting for a youngster to develop. Who replaces Shaw, the natural choice would be Jones. So how many does Talia play as we develop him from a 30 gamer to 50 gamer? Because he certainly will play. Smithy and Teddy had pretty ordinary seasons for them and Smithy can get better, not so sure about Teddy though. Rampe was pretty good but needs to clean up his brain-fades. Macca will always give his heart and soul (he is not playing for frees and putting hands in air any more). Reg was wonderful last season and was the lynchpin in the backline. He controlled everything.

The mids need to be better on delivery. They must put more time into their skills to get them up to elite AFL level. This is the fault of the coaches I believe. They don't do enough elite skills drills to develop skill levels to the highest standard. Mitchell, Jack, Hannas, Benny & Joey all get plenty of ball but give it up more than 40% on the clearances. In fact I think the figure is closer to 50%. Parks is much better. So is Macca when in the mids. Love to see a bit of Heeney and possibly Mills and Hewett in the mix. Mills is s deliverer and so is Hewett. Don't be surprised to see Big Sammy Naismith get a few games as the Sub is no longer there I think clubs will play the extra big guy every now and then.

Players to look out for in 2016; Talia, Abaina Davis ( this kid player mids all year in the twos, he can also ruck and play KPP. At 192 he is a big mid), Aliir Aliir (started to hit some really exciting form after returning from injury, still a bit of developing to do but exciting), Naismith, Hewett, Mills, Rose. We know what Zac Jones can do so am not going to make him one to look out for.

Oh by the way the other bloke to look out for is Kirkie. I think a few of our players will get a few lessons on how to back into packs and walk away without even flinching. That Kirkie hardness and maniacal love of the Bloods will rub off on all of them. You watch, he is pervasive (in an omnipresence), you can't get away from him and he infects everyone around him, in a good way of course.

[wolftone57]

listening to James Francou...........I couldn't help but think how he leans significantly towards KJ playing 50% up front ........

2015 Review: Kieren Jack - sydneyswans.com.au (http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/video/2015-11-04/2015-review-kieren-jack)

That would be Josh Francou. his father, Maurice and uncle, Ken both played for North Adelaide. I think they may haver played in the 1973 thriller when beaten in the last 3 minutes bty Glenelg champ Graeme Cornes taking an absolute screamer. Tigers went on to win by 7 points due to an after the siren goal by Sandilands (ex North). Josh comes from a fine tradition of South Australian football. The 1972 north side was Australian champion beating Carlton & Subiaco.

Francou has always been an advocate of the small forward and as a player ages it is good for them to spend more time in the forward line. I think the other problem is Kizza's delivery from the mids is not particularly good but his goalkicking and delivery inside forward 50 is really good.

[liz]

Oh by the way the other bloke to look out for is Kirkie. I think a few of our players will get a few lessons on how to back into packs and walk away without even flinching. That Kirkie hardness and maniacal love of the Bloods will rub off on all of them. You watch, he is pervasive (in an omnipresence), you can't get away from him and he infects everyone around him, in a good way of course.

Most of our players have their flaws (or rather, opportunities for improvement) - as do most in the competition. But I reckon you'd be hard pushed to name many for whom reluctance to back into packs is an issue. Parker was voted the most courageous in the competition in 2015 by his peers. Hanners never fails to go when it's his turn. Rohan and Heeney are probably too kamikaze for their own good (and sometimes the good of their team mates too). And pretty much every other regular senior player isn't far behind these four in terms of their toughness at the contest. The now-departed Jetts used to maybe pick and choose his moments (but we already miss his other wonderful attributes, all the same), and a couple of the younger players are still finding their way but I doubt you'd call any of them soft.

I am sure most of our players will learn a huge amount from Kirk and his perspectives on football and life. I just find it odd that you've picked out the one particular trait in which the overwhelming majority of our players need absolutely no schooling.

[wolftone57]

Most of our players have their flaws (or rather, opportunities for improvement) - as do most in the competition. But I reckon you'd be hard pushed to name many for whom reluctance to back into packs is an issue. Parker was voted the most courageous in the competition in 2015 by his peers. Hanners never fails to go when it's his turn. Rohan and Heeney are probably too kamikaze for their own good (and sometimes the good of their team mates too). And pretty much every other regular senior player isn't far behind these four in terms of their toughness at the contest. The now-departed Jetts used to maybe pick and choose his moments (but we already miss his other wonderful attributes, all the same), and a couple of the younger players are still finding their way but I doubt you'd call any of them soft.

I am sure most of our players will learn a huge amount from Kirk and his perspectives on football and life. I just find it odd that you've picked out the one particular trait in which the overwhelming majority of our players need absolutely no schooling.

Now Liz I was referring to technique not the inference our players don't do it. I never inferred that. But I do infer that our players technique in this area could improve. We have sustained many injuries because our players are just too brave. That is my point. Kirkie had a knack of backing into a pack without getting hurt. Maybe Rohan, Hannas, Parks, Smithy & co can learn from the master and forgo the injuries. I disagree entirely with your perspective about not needing schooling. They need great schooling otherwise they would not be getting pole-axed. Technique is everything.

[liz]

Now Liz I was referring to technique not the inference our players don't do it. I never inferred that. But I do infer that our players technique in this area could improve. We have sustained many injuries because our players are just too brave. That is my point. Kirkie had a knack of backing into a pack without getting hurt. Maybe Rohan, Hannas, Parks, Smithy & co can learn from the master and forgo the injuries. I disagree entirely with your perspective about not needing schooling. They need great schooling otherwise they would not be getting pole-axed. Technique is everything.

And how often do our guys get injured, relative to how often they back back? In the game Parker broke his ankle, he had been poleaxed in the air but just bounced back up again. Not unlike when Kirk was poleaxed by Pickett in the 2003 QF and just got back up. Kirk a brave player who always went when it was his turn, but marking over his head wasn't really his thing. He wouldn't often have been in the position that Parker, Rohan, Heeney and Hanners frequently put themselves in.

[wolftone57]

And how often do our guys get injured, relative to how often they back back? In the game Parker broke his ankle, he had been poleaxed in the air but just bounced back up again. Not unlike when Kirk was poleaxed by Pickett in the 2003 QF and just got back up. Kirk a brave player who always went when it was his turn, but marking over his head wasn't really his thing. He wouldn't often have been in the position that Parker, Rohan, Heeney and Hanners frequently put themselves in.


Don't agree at all. Parker was concussed going stupidly, yes I said stupidly Liz, into a pack with Buddy coming the other way. He should not have flown, there was no need for him to even contest. It is about decision making Liz. The kid is too @@@@ing brave but sometimes stupidly. There is a difference between bravery and stupidity and if you can't see that then you are a fool and I don't think you a fool. Kirkie was always able to judge whether he needed to go or not. That is the difference Liz. It's all good to throw yourself at the pack and get the plaudits for bravery but sometimes you really have to say 'Who else is in this contest?' If it turns out your KPP are there then stay the hell out. That is a bloody unwritten law of footy Liz which you may not know about. Small men down when the big men fly.

I'm not saying Parker should never fly or take big marks. What I am saying though is if he is spoiling the big guys or putting himself in needless danger then he should back out. Kirkie used to judge the contest really well. that is my pointt. He was fearless and in most cases he got it right. I don't want to lose a Rohan, Parks, Hannas etc because they banged into Buddy or Tip.

[liz]

Don't agree at all. Parker was concussed going stupidly, yes I said stupidly Liz, into a pack with Buddy coming the other way. He should not have flown, there was no need for him to even contest. It is about decision making Liz. The kid is too @@@@ing brave but sometimes stupidly. There is a difference between bravery and stupidity and if you can't see that then you are a fool and I don't think you a fool. Kirkie was always able to judge whether he needed to go or not. That is the difference Liz. It's all good to throw yourself at the pack and get the plaudits for bravery but sometimes you really have to say 'Who else is in this contest?' If it turns out your KPP are there then stay the hell out. That is a bloody unwritten law of footy Liz which you may not know about. Small men down when the big men fly.

I'm not saying Parker should never fly or take big marks. What I am saying though is if he is spoiling the big guys or putting himself in needless danger then he should back out. Kirkie used to judge the contest really well. that is my pointt. He was fearless and in most cases he got it right. I don't want to lose a Rohan, Parks, Hannas etc because they banged into Buddy or Tip.

While there have been a couple of instances a smaller player should have shown better judgement, I think these instances are in the minority. On the whole, players are showing the courage that the competition demands they show (and if they don't, they ridicule the players for shirking a contest). Either way, I doubt they are going to learn a huge amount on this specific point from Kirk. He wasn't an aerialist on the whole, which is why he rarely flew for a contested ball.

Your starting assertion was that
That Kirkie hardness and maniacal love of the Bloods will rub off on all of them, indicating our current crop of players was not as hard as Kirk. I still contend that this is not really the case.

[S.S. Bleeder]

Don't agree at all. Parker was concussed going stupidly, yes I said stupidly Liz, into a pack with Buddy coming the other way. He should not have flown, there was no need for him to even contest. It is about decision making Liz. The kid is too @@@@ing brave but sometimes stupidly. There is a difference between bravery and stupidity and if you can't see that then you are a fool and I don't think you a fool. Kirkie was always able to judge whether he needed to go or not. That is the difference Liz. It's all good to throw yourself at the pack and get the plaudits for bravery but sometimes you really have to say 'Who else is in this contest?' If it turns out your KPP are there then stay the hell out. That is a bloody unwritten law of footy Liz which you may not know about. Small men down when the big men fly.

I'm not saying Parker should never fly or take big marks. What I am saying though is if he is spoiling the big guys or putting himself in needless danger then he should back out. Kirkie used to judge the contest really well. that is my pointt. He was fearless and in most cases he got it right. I don't want to lose a Rohan, Parks, Hannas etc because they banged into Buddy or Tip.

Clearly you've never played the game Wolftone or for that matter any real contact sport otherwise you would never hold that opinion. You can't be 100% aware of your surroundings 100% of the time when yo're playing. How was he to know how close Buddy was. They don't get to view the game unfold like we do in the grandstands.

[Scottee]

Clearly you've never played the game Wolftone or for that matter any real contact sport otherwise you would never hold that opinion. You can't be 100% aware of your surroundings 100% of the time when yo're playing. How was he to know how close Buddy was. They don't get to view the game unfold like we do in the grandstands.

Probably not that simple. I know that some players, in particular Justin Kotschitske, have poor peripheral vision and there have been some horrendous collisions as a result. But if you have good PV it pays to draw a line between bravery and foolishness. I hope poor PV is not an issue for our blokes, because it takes away the choice.

[Auntie.Gerald]

feels like we are majoring in the minors

lets get back to the team 2016 !!!!!!!!!

[aguy]

Now that the list is settled I'm gonna have a go at my best 22. It's a mix of talent and proven players. Some players will be hard done by to miss out. We need to change our game style a bit clearly so that's behind some of my thoughts.

B: Talia, Laidler, Smith
HB: Jones, Grundy, Rampe
C: Hannebery, Kennedy, Mcviegh
HF: Heeney, Reid, Parker
F: Franklin, Tippett, Towers
FOLL: Sinclair, Mitchell, K Jack
INT: Cunningham, Lloyd, Mills, Rohan

Notably absent are Ted Richards and Ben McGlynn. I think age has caught up with both of them and we are a better team without them. Teddy was thrown off his man too often too easily last year and I think talia should develop into teddys role. Laidler is proving solid so I leave him in. Mcglynn has also been caught by age and injury. Add in his poor disposal by foot and he just is too inefficient in the modern game which relies on accurate delivery by foot. Something we need to improve dramatically.

I've moved ramps to half back flank. His speed and thumping long kick is needed coming off the half back line and that is going to allow him to move into the midfield a little which has often been discussed.

I see mills coming on and playing a lot through our midfield rotations and he should play from round 1 to gain as much experience as possible.

Towers was really coming on through the later half of the year and the finals and so he gets my nod as forward flank. Cunningham and Rohan are the other speedsters who will play that role having lost Jetta. Reid needs to play much more forward this year. I think he can provide a real problem for teams this year which the inevitable focus on Tippett and Franklin. He needs to be backed in as a key forward and regain the confidence he had in 2012. Small forwards will be played by midfielders resting forward. Particularly Heeney K Jack and Parker.

So there we have it. I will return to this post through the season and see if my team ever makes it to the field in the exact combination or not

[Gronk]

B: Talia Grundy Smith
HB: Rohan Reid Rampe
C: Hannas Kennedy K. Jack
HF: Heeney Franklin McVeigh
F: Cunningham Tippett Towers
Foll: Sinclare Mitchell Parker
Inter: Mills, Lloyd, Laidler
Sub: B. Jack

My two big omissions are Richards and McGlynn. They are entering the ROK 2014 decline zone, but can still be useful depth players.

[aguy]

Gronk

Our teams are very similar. The only difference is jones versus b Jack.

One thing to remember is no more SUB :-)

[Conor_Dillon]

aguy that might be the best 22 come season's end but I think Richards is an absolute certainty to play in round 1, barring injury of course.

[wolftone57]

Clearly you've never played the game Wolftone or for that matter any real contact sport otherwise you would never hold that opinion. You can't be 100% aware of your surroundings 100% of the time when yo're playing. How was he to know how close Buddy was. They don't get to view the game unfold like we do in the grandstands.

Excuse me played the game from the age of 4. Don't presume to tell me I haven't played. Have you?

Awareness is what differentiates the great players from the rest mate.

No you can't be aware at all times but to fly with the flight of the ball into a pack coming in the opposite direction? Surely every player knows that if you are running with flight in the forward 50 there are going to be players you are going to run into. I know I did. The set ups also dictate the play. Several times I have seen Lukie spoil his own players by coming at ball with the flight. This shows either a lack of awareness or talking on behalf of his teammates. Teammates should have called him out on at least two occasions but didn't and that worried me at the time. I am simply saying there is a problem with his decision making sometimes. Either that or there is a lack of team orientation in our side because there isn't enough talking. Last year I believe that was a problem. In the game against Essendon there was almost silence on the field.

[Conor_Dillon]

B: Smith Grundy Richards

HB: Rampe Talia McVeigh

C: Lloyd Hannebery Rohan

HF: Heeney Franklin Reid

F: McGlynn Tippett K.Jack

Fol: Sinclair Kennedy Parker

Int: Towers Mitchell Cunningham Jones



Possible reserves team.

B: Laidler X.Richards Marsh

HB: Leonardis Allir Newman

C: Hiscox Mills B.Jack

HF: Rose Davis Dawson

F: Papley Nankervis Derrickx

Fol: Naismith Hewett Robinson

Int: Foote, Melican, O'Riordan, Murray

Emg: Galloway, Johnson

Looks like we're going to have a reasonably raw reserves team this year...plenty of x-factor about it though!

[aguy]

aguy that might be the best 22 come season's end but I think Richards is an absolute certainty to play in round 1, barring injury of course.

I agree with you that Richards will start the season. I'm predicting we will need to see a ROK like situation happen though. For me it would be a better team. As much as I love teddy and also ROK I think the time is up

[Conor_Dillon]

I agree with you that Richards will start the season. I'm predicting we will need to see a ROK like situation happen though. For me it would be a better team. As much as I love teddy and also ROK I think the time is up

Won't be a bad problem to have because it will mean that a young KPD in the reserves is banging the door down.

I'd like to see Talia and Grundy take the two key forwards and have Richards play on a third-tall...allowing him to zone off and become more of a third-man-up type spoiler...ala Josh Gibson.

[S.S. Bleeder]

Excuse me played the game from the age of 4. Don't presume to tell me I haven't played. Have you?

Awareness is what differentiates the great players from the rest mate.

No you can't be aware at all times but to fly with the flight of the ball into a pack coming in the opposite direction? Surely every player knows that if you are running with flight in the forward 50 there are going to be players you are going to run into. I know I did. The set ups also dictate the play. Several times I have seen Lukie spoil his own players by coming at ball with the flight. This shows either a lack of awareness or talking on behalf of his teammates. Teammates should have called him out on at least two occasions but didn't and that worried me at the time. I am simply saying there is a problem with his decision making sometimes. Either that or there is a lack of team orientation in our side because there isn't enough talking. Last year I believe that was a problem. In the game against Essendon there was almost silence on the field.

From the age of four till when? And was it at a reasonable level? Yes, I played from about 11 through till 20 at a reasonable level. I find it difficult to believe that anyone who has played the game at a reasonable level can be critical of a player getting crunched and accusing him of "playing stupidly". Maybe you'd better have a look at the replay; Swans pull off miraculous comeback to beat Bombers - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-04-04/swans-pull-off-a-miracle). It would be impossible for him to be aware that Buddy was coming unless he took his eyes off the ball. If anything; you should be critical of Buddy for not calling it. And no, it wasn't a set play, it was a blind kick forward by Grundy.

[0918330512]

From the age of four till when? And was it at a reasonable level? Yes, I played from about 11 through till 20 at a reasonable level. I find it difficult to believe that anyone who has played the game at a reasonable level can be critical of a player getting crunched and accusing him of "playing stupidly". Maybe you'd better have a look at the replay; Swans pull off miraculous comeback to beat Bombers - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-04-04/swans-pull-off-a-miracle). It would be impossible for him to be aware that Buddy was coming unless he took his eyes off the ball. If anything; you should be critical of Buddy for not calling it. And no, it wasn't a set play, it was a blind kick forward by Grundy.

Who did you play for & at what level? 11-17 is pretty much junior footy. And to be honest, who really cares? Even people who haven't played any football at all are entitled to an opinion.

[aguy]

Thanks for the opinions everyone.

But junior footy may be best discussed elsewhere ?

Maybe we could get back to thoughts on the 2016 team?

[Conor_Dillon]

Maybe we could get back to thoughts on the 2016 team?

:five:

[wolftone57]

Who did you play for & at what level? 11-17 is pretty much junior footy. And to be honest, who really cares? Even people who haven't played any football at all are entitled to an opinion.

That's true and I never said any different but this guy made the assertion I didn't play footy at all. I played district footy. Never made it to the Astral levels of the VFL, SANFL etc but I did play. That is why I answered him. I don't care if a person has never played it is a free forum and you can voice your opinion all you like. I have never said any different but this other bloke did.

Why not have a look at what he said before having a go at me please.

As to the topic. As I have asserted over and again I don't believe in the principal of a best 22. You have to have at least 28 players who can slot into your side and not lose a beat. Having at least 28 that are match hardened is what has won Hawks three in a row. I'm sure Clarkson does not believe in a Best 22. Damned certain he believes in horses for courses. Match ups are so important today get it wrong and you lose big time.

[aguy]

Wolf tone I think I agree with you about the 28 or so players. The best 22 will change depending on the opposition. It's still an interesting topic I think though to ponder the make up of the team and what combinations may work better than others.

[0918330512]

Why not have a look at what he said before having a go at me please

My post wasn't directed at you Wolftone57. Please see the PM I sent you for an explanation.

Back to the topic & Mods/Liz, please feel free to delete this off topic post.

Oh, but I also have to agree with the last bit of your post about a best 28. Certain players may have specific roles under unique match day circumstances depending on match ups, weather etc - regardless of injuries necessitating selection changes. A team is only as strong as its weakest player, and improvement of lower ranked players will encourage improvement in players above them.

[Scottee]

You have to have at least 28 players who can slot into your side and not lose a beat.

Interesting number when you look at the list. Exactly 30 who have played at least one game (not counting Johnson). But four of those with 8 games between them.

[jono2707]

Not sure if we can pay Buddy and Tippett, retain our other guns (Hanners, Parker et al) AND maintain a deep enough list of at least 28 match hardened players...

[ernie koala]

Now that the list is settled I'm gonna have a go at my best 22.
B: Talia, Laidler, Smith
HB: Jones, Grundy, Rampe
C: Hannebery, Kennedy, Mcviegh
HF: Heeney, Reid, Parker
F: Franklin, Tippett, Towers
FOLL: Sinclair, Mitchell, K Jack
INT: Cunningham, Lloyd, Mills, Rohan
I will return to this post through the season and see if my team ever makes it to the field in the exact combination or not

My team..
B: Smith Richards Laidler
HB: McVeigh Grundy Rampe
C: Jack Kennedy Hannebery
HF: Franklin Reid Rohan
FF: Heeney Tippett McGlynn
FOL: Sinclair Parker Mitchell
INTER : Jones, Cunningham, Mills, Talia
EMG : Lloyd, Towers, B Jack

[Auntie.Gerald]

The big question for me is how much Heeney and Mills may dominate?

These two guys are serious footballers and are the style of players that could impose themselves on the selection committee right before our eyes

ie rd 6, 2016 and we maybe all laughing at just how well we are set up for the season.....and Heeney and Mills could quite frankly be talked about at a level beyond all our expectations

These two kids are just so determined and technically proficient beyond so many of our snr guys at the same age

........A midfield of Parker, Mitchell, Hannes, BJ, Mills and Heeney is simply a luxury of riches for many years to come.........6 young guns and i know people are not sold on BJ bur we all will be after 2016 !!!!!

[707]

The Swans have been known for their stinginess in recent years and were ranked fifth this season for points scored against. They were clear leaders when it came to applying pressure to their opposition's forwards and were also best at ensuring the other team struggled to take marks inside their forward 50. Their opponents also only goaled 20.9 per cent of the time they took the ball inside 50; again, the Swans were the best in the League in that area but fell down when it came to winning defensive one-on-one contests, where they were ranked in the bottom four.

Wow, what a damning stat!

[Scottee]

The Swans have been known for their stinginess in recent years and were ranked fifth this season for points scored against. They were clear leaders when it came to applying pressure to their opposition's forwards and were also best at ensuring the other team struggled to take marks inside their forward 50. Their opponents also only goaled 20.9 per cent of the time they took the ball inside 50; again, the Swans were the best in the League in that area but fell down when it came to winning defensive one-on-one contests, where they were ranked in the bottom four.

Wow, what a damning stat!

It would be interesting to know who the main culprits were.

[RogueSwan]

It would be interesting to know who the main culprits were.

Shaw, Rampe, Richards, Smooch? All of them had poor one-on-one's at various times through the season. From my less than stellar memory Reg had one of his best season's and was rarely beaten.

[707]

Bottom four though, that's hardly believable. One assumes that this key stat is not lost on the coaching panel and becomes an area of focus.

As I watch a few replays over summer I'll be watching the backline one on ones with piqued interest to verify who indeed are the weak links.

[liz]

Like most statistics, I think it is dangerous to look at it in isolation. Indeed, the fact that the team measures poorly on this measure yet is amongst the best in terms of conceding scores from forward 50 entries suggests there is something else going on. I think that, assisting by the (usually) good midfield pressure, the team probably finds itself in true one-on-one contests relatively infrequently. Those that do occur will often be from a poor turnover that has left the defence exposed because it is easy for the opposition to kick to their player's advantage. Even if a defender makes some kind of contest, he will usually lose it. Most teams will lose these one-on-one contests. However, other teams probably have more one-on-one contests where the ball is coming in slightly less perfectly, and their defenders are able to win, or at least halve, many of these. In contrast, I suspect the Swans manage to avoid many of these being one on one contests at all. Therefore, if you measure the number of one on one contests lost as a percentage of one on one contests conceded, the Swans will likely score poorly.

That said, I am not surprised it is a measure the team is relatively weak at. Ted's not big for a key defender and Reg isn't exactly a monster either, compared to many of today's forwards. With Laidler and Rampe often asked to play taller than they really are, it is to be expected they will often be outpointed. The reason the team works hard to cover for each other and minimise the number of one on one contests to start with is probably for this precise reason.

[707]

As always, good analysis Liz. Will be interesting to see if Talia can become a regular, if so that will leave Ted to be the third/floating tall, maybe relegating Laidler or using Rampe in a different role.

In fact it wouldn't surprise to see a fresh approach to team structure, maybe Rampe more midfield, McVeigh back more than mid, Heeney given another year as a damaging forward, a better structured forward half ...... then again this is the Swans :-)

[barry]

My team..
B: Smith Richards Laidler
HB: McVeigh Grundy Rampe
C: Jack Kennedy Hannebery
HF: Franklin Reid Rohan
FF: Heeney Tippett McGlynn
FOL: Sinclair Parker Mitchell
INTER : Jones, Cunningham, Mills, Talia
EMG : Lloyd, Towers, B Jack


The backline is the key for me. Forward line sorts itself out.

We need three "talls". Grundy, Richards and Talia. Hopefully Talia turns out alright, and Teddy can play the 3rd tall as he transitions out.
We need 3 nuggety types: Smith, Laidler and Rampe.

And we need some rotation, which is McHack and Jones.

Jones could easily become a permanent member. Smith seemed to have a poor 2015, maybe time has caught up with him. McHacks days are numbered I'm afraid. Like any limited skilled player, there time at the top is brief.

[Nico]

Pretty clear to me why this stat is so poor; we lose the centre clearances too easily, hence the ball comes in quickly to one on one contests.

[Scottee]

The backline is the key for me. Forward line sorts itself out.

We need three "talls". Grundy, Richards and Talia. Hopefully Talia turns out alright, and Teddy can play the 3rd tall as he transitions out.
We need 3 nuggety types: Smith, Laidler and Rampe.

And we need some rotation, which is McHack and Jones.

Jones could easily become a permanent member. Smith seemed to have a poor 2015, maybe time has caught up with him. McHacks days are numbered I'm afraid. Like any limited skilled player, there time at the top is brief.

707 -are you kidding?

[111431]

I suggest we are in the bottom four as a result of the t/o alluded to by Liz. We have many serial offenders who cannot kick and hit a target

[RogueSwan]

... Jones could easily become a permanent member. Smith seemed to have a poor 2015, maybe time has caught up with him. McHacks days are numbered I'm afraid. Like any limited skilled player, there time at the top is brief.

Time has caught up with Smooch? He will only be twenty eight in the middle of 2016. Hardly over the hill, more like a footballers prime years.
And as far a Macca having limited skills?? He can confidently be played in just about any part of the field: inside, outside, running back, forward flanker ..... He can even be quite a good FF as he still has speed of the mark (for the first dozen strides, after that well....) and has a strong upper body and can kick the "captain's" goal when the pressure is on.

[Markus26]

The backline is the key for me. Forward line sorts itself out.

We need three "talls". Grundy, Richards and Talia. Hopefully Talia turns out alright, and Teddy can play the 3rd tall as he transitions out.
We need 3 nuggety types: Smith, Laidler and Rampe.

And we need some rotation, which is McHack and Jones.

Jones could easily become a permanent member. Smith seemed to have a poor 2015, maybe time has caught up with him. McHacks days are numbered I'm afraid. Like any limited skilled player, there time at the top is brief.

I like the back six along with McVeigh and Jones, but I disagree with your estimation of McVeigh and Smith (like others I see on here). I don't think Smooch had a bad year. Didn't he end up representing Australia against Ireland? If he had a poor one, he would hardly get a call up. And McVeigh??? Have to agree with Rogueswan on this one. Play him anywhere and he'll regularly beat his opponent (except in the ruck!). Shaw was an offender with his disposal for me. But I would overlook that due to his dash and willingness to take on the opposition.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Konichiwa from the snow in Japan !!!

Sugoi !!!!! Awesome Is the powder even for a bad year to date but if i have to listen to any more BAD 80s 90s music from those speakers on the chair lifts ahhhhhhhhhh --- I had to buy some earphones for my ipod cause I forgot them !!!!! It blocks it almost out of harms way !!!

Alrighty

Ok footy....., I have let it go last 10 days but like a smoker I'm guessing it is an itch that is hard to leave not scratched !!!

Go u bloods - ps brought a few tasty Aussie wines away and just having the second glad after a hard day at the office :)

Ok note to self don't be a &$@"head

I think the defence had to be looked from the top down to give its stats some real relevance !

I think we play a style that works for the players we have recruited. I think this is key in determining what will work in 2016 and then hence what the backs mids and forwards might look like in our 22 best.

Let's be honest the Hawks are the triumph of the last 8 years

So they are our benchmark when assessing our team and its strengths and weaknesses but they also had a big gap between their 2008 success so rarely things happen on a upward trend until recently they killed the competition again !!

For me the the win win has been our prominence for many years in the top 8 plus finals appearances

We are there there a abouts due to strategy, recruitment execution and our bloods culture no doubt

If all our top players were available for the finals who knows in 2015 but for me we appeared a little off the pace of the top3

So back to the post of best team 2016 !!!!

the Hawks recruited it appears for a particular brand of footy and let's face it they get a 10 out of 10 for strategy, recruitment, execution

The game if played as a kick and catch high possession style like the Hawks have done (massive over simplification but let's give it a name) certainly has combatted the triathlete focus that the afl have in mind of a fast moving game

We have tried to adapt in modern times but have not Peaked the play makers gifted 22 that we needed to combat at hawthorn at its best

As I say to afl friends take the 5 best out of the Hawks come finals like suffered and west coast could have easily won with no Rioli, no hodge, no Mitchell, no Gunston, no smith etc

In my opinion our game plan leaves the gaps in our backline

What we have lacked upfront is the ability to have a small elite forward like freeo or Hawks to play in pagans paddock ie Cyril or Walters

When freeo or the Hawks do this for key parts of the game it allows there backs then to squeeze the opposition for space then the obvious is the counter attack if a Walters or Rioli doesn't score is limited space to transition back the other way

What this has meant is that our backs haven't had the luxury to push up and we have been exposed a little one on one

Ok summary

Talia and laidler will fight for a spot

Jones not sure what his pathway is

He maybe a year away from being and excellent mid option as he doesn't appear to fast enough for a shaw run and carry type player and we need one asap who can kick with accuracy !!!

[barry]

So no one is with me in resurrecting the "McHack" nickname ?

;)

[YvonneH]

I think McVeigh has done enough over the years to put the 'McHack' name to bed.

[barry]

"McHack" name is only resting, not dead.

[royboy42]

So no one is with me in resurrecting the "McHack" nickname ?

;)

The man is a Captain of our club.

It was always a demeaning, thoughtless, inaccurate moniker that reflected on the namer more than the name

Still applies.

[liz]

+1

[Meg]

+2

[Scottee]

+3

[Auntie.Gerald]

Barry thanks for the gee up :)

I enjoy the different views on this forum. For me the reason I do enjoy this forum is because in general the members provide some thought provoking ideas to consider when reviewing the game, our team and individual players

There is a healthy respect and understanding of what it takes to be a plus 10yr player

I think it is a balanced view for myself to remember Part of the reason some players look so much more exciting in open play is because of the smart quick decision making of players like Macca

I rate McVeigh
Everyone has their role and I think that he brings a dependable quality to our best 22.

He is not an outside flashy player. He is in close or drop off player that week in week out stands up in the AFL and the bloods

So he is in my 2016 best 22 for sure

Just like Cameron Ling was at the cats - integral !!!

Ps apologies for my post last night.,.. Just gibberish!!! I was hammered after snowboarding all day and two glasses of wine went straight to my head. Fell asleep straight after the post ---- getting old :)

Nana nap !!!! No overrated either :)

[707]

+4, McVeigh is quality by any measure IMO.

[sharp9]

Scott Pendlebury said that he rated Macca the most dangerous kick in the competition....so - yeah.

[sprite]

So no one is with me in resurrecting the "McHack" nickname ?

;)

Barry, FFS the guy is captain respected by other leaders and yet you seem to have greater insight and knowledge.

Every player has games where they don't meet expectations ( their own, coaches or ours), I'm pretty sure Macca has more than enough credits.

[RogueSwan]

So no one is with me in resurrecting the "McHack" nickname ?

;)
AnnieH might be your only ally in this debate? But even then I think she says it more out of habit than actual meaning.[emoji4]

[graemed]

6 young guns and i know people are not sold on BJ bur we all will be after 2016 !!!!!

I agree that this year may very well see a change in perception for those doubting the junior Jack. He has clearly bulked up and appears to have lost none of his speed. He's always been handy around goals although his set shots were patchy but his determination and ball sense are very closely honed.
Hewitt is another I feel may break through this year. I know a lot is being made of the Mills, Heeney combination and on the evidence justifiably but I remember how well George played against stiff opposition last year and usually against the odds to a losing ruck.
I would like to see Mills earn his place through the grades and BJ and George rewarded for their tireless supporting roles. If they don't shape up fair enough but I believe they may surprise many observers when given the opportunity to play with the seniors.
Oh yeah my team:
Backs:
Smith, Richards, Laidler, Rampe, Grundy, Jones, Talia, McVeigh
Mids:
Hanabery, Kennedy, B Jack, K Jack, Parker, Hewitt, Mitchell, Sinclair, Tippett
Forwards:
Reid, Towers, Franklin, Heeney, Mills, McGlynn, Nankervis

As you can see I also do not think it is a good idea to limit our thinking to 22

[Beerman]

I think Jones will be important for us down the back and I want to like him but his attitude worries me. He's a dead ringer for Barry Hall at his most aggro and has given away some bad free kicks and made stupid blunders because he wasn't in control of himself.

Hopefully now that he's a bit more of a regular in the side he's settled down a bit or someone will pull him aside and have a little chat. Perhaps he should watch some old footage of ROK - he used to get some shocking decisions against him and never said anything just stood the mark and got on with the game.

Our on-ball skills are definitely an issue - we rely on a long string of handballs to get the ball outside to someone who can spend a minute or two lining up a pass to our forward line. Against high pressure sides it breaks down too much. We need someone who can break out of a pack and use the ball well by foot under pressure. That's what makes players like Goodes legends of the game.

[RogueSwan]

...

Hopefully now that he's a bit more of a regular in the side he's settled down a bit or someone will pull him aside and have a little chat. ...
Cap'n Kirk?


...
Against high pressure sides it breaks down too much. We need someone who can break out of a pack and use the ball well by foot under pressure.
Hopefully Kizza can get back to his best. A couple of years ago, when he wasn't under an "injury cloud", he could win the ball and run it to the outside for a kick into the F50. Parker can also to do this but is he allowed to? Maybe if Rampe gets a run through the midfield his bigger body may help him run the ball inside out.
That being said, when we do string our handballs together the team looks great, but as Beerman alluded to, we need another option when the handballs break down.

[snajik]

I seem to recall our best win of the season - beating Hawthorn at the MCG - was pretty much attributable to McVeigh moving to FF in the final quarter and kicking some crucial goals. I see no evidence that he remains anything other than a very good footballer.

[churry]

I seem to recall our best win of the season - beating Hawthorn at the MCG - was pretty much attributable to McVeigh moving to FF in the final quarter and kicking some crucial goals. I see no evidence that he remains anything other than a very good footballer.

Was so influential and inspiring to watch. I think he also setup Parker for a goal. He may spend a lot more time up forward this year and hopefully we see plenty of performances like that ?

[Mountain Man]

Backs:
Smith, Richards, Laidler, Rampe, Grundy, Jones, Talia, McVeigh
Mids:
Hanabery, Kennedy, B Jack, K Jack, Parker, Hewitt, Mitchell, Sinclair, Tippett
Forwards:
Reid, Towers, Franklin, Heeney, Mills, McGlynn, Nankervis

IMHO the STRUCTURE for a forward line would be better if:

* Tippett and Sinclair alternate between rucking and in-the-square full forward. Both can take decent contested marks, and would always be an option for a long ball. Hopefully they could play a long time on the ground. I think Nankervis is currently not in the best 22 (or 24)
* I think Rohan is a better bet than McGlynn. With he and Franklin roaming around the wing/forward pockets, they can both score goals or send it long to Tippett/Sinclair
* Heeney and Mills would hopefully be the small forwards - capable of marking in their own right or front-and-centre in the goal square. Resting mids such as Parker BJ ans Keiran (plus McVeigh) are bonuses.
* I see Reid and Towers are the swingmen/wingmen linking backs and forwards with know ability to take marks and move it on or rum forward to kink goals.

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"known" ability no "no' ability!!

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run forward to kick!!!

[graemed]

Thanks mountain man definitely missed out with Rohan. I see Reid and Rohan as very different but important components in the forwards.
Reid plays best when he plays from CHF but unlike Franklin is a marking target for those downfield, I see Franklin playing from much deeper and running to create his own world of chaos. I remember Rohan in the time before his injury, playing from the goal square, he was devastating for those first four or so games. Unstoppable as a match up.
Towers possess speed, a leap and grit. He was asked to stand up against Freo and before that, he willing accepted every challenge and has come back this season fitter and sharper.
Heeney is a proven clutch player and provided he can remain fit will undoubtedly be effective as a midfield or forward, Mills is unproven but if his self-possession at training is any indication will make the transition to senior football sooner rather than later.
So that means three talls, Reid, Franklin, Rohan, three smaller forwards Towers, Heeney, Mills, then you have to make space for either Sinclair or Tippett, as talls and Parker, the Jacks and Mitchell and Kennedy unless you use them across the middle and rotate off the bench.
Interesting problems when you remember how Hawthorn destroy us with their run out of defence.

[RogueSwan]

...So that means three talls, Reid, Franklin, Rohan, three smaller forwards Towers, Heeney, Mills, ...
Ummmmm, Rohan is listed as 1.88 and Towers 1.89.:smile:
Seniors (http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/football/players/senior-players)

[graemed]

Thanks for the update I always thought Rohan was taller but I recall that Towers carried the ruck in the second half against Richmond in 2014 prior to the finals.
I guess that means four talls and two smalls again.

[Conor_Dillon]

Thanks for the update I always thought Rohan was taller but I recall that Towers carried the ruck in the second half against Richmond in 2014 prior to the finals.
I guess that means four talls and two smalls again.

Tower's recorded one of the best ever vertical leaps at the draft combine so that's probably why they don't mind chucking him in the ruck!

[wolftone57]

707 -are you kidding?

Yes I was also confounded by that one. Macca is a highly skilled player. It is just some of his decision making under pressure that is worrisome.

[wolftone57]

I like the back six along with McVeigh and Jones, but I disagree with your estimation of McVeigh and Smith (like others I see on here). I don't think Smooch had a bad year. Didn't he end up representing Australia against Ireland? If he had a poor one, he would hardly get a call up. And McVeigh??? Have to agree with Rogueswan on this one. Play him anywhere and he'll regularly beat his opponent (except in the ruck!). Shaw was an offender with his disposal for me. But I would overlook that due to his dash and willingness to take on the opposition.


Smooch did not have a particularly good year. Very average by his high standards. That is understandable as he battled hamstring problems most of the year and I think that may have affected his game.

[wolftone57]

Shaw, Rampe, Richards, Smooch? All of them had poor one-on-one's at various times through the season. From my less than stellar memory Reg had one of his best season's and was rarely beaten.

Reg was a rock. He was wonderful. He is much maligned here and other boards but I think Reg has had the best year so far for the club.

[wolftone57]

I agree that this year may very well see a change in perception for those doubting the junior Jack. He has clearly bulked up and appears to have lost none of his speed. He's always been handy around goals although his set shots were patchy but his determination and ball sense are very closely honed.
Hewitt is another I feel may break through this year. I know a lot is being made of the Mills, Heeney combination and on the evidence justifiably but I remember how well George played against stiff opposition last year and usually against the odds to a losing ruck.
I would like to see Mills earn his place through the grades and BJ and George rewarded for their tireless supporting roles. If they don't shape up fair enough but I believe they may surprise many observers when given the opportunity to play with the seniors.
Oh yeah my team:
Backs:
Smith, Richards, Laidler, Rampe, Grundy, Jones, Talia, McVeigh
Mids:
Hanabery, Kennedy, B Jack, K Jack, Parker, Hewitt, Mitchell, Sinclair, Tippett
Forwards:
Reid, Towers, Franklin, Heeney, Mills, McGlynn, Nankervis

As you can see I also do not think it is a good idea to limit our thinking to 22


I agree re Hewett and BJ. BJ was very good in the latter part of last year and his tackling is super. He needs to get rid of that get out of gaol handball mentality though. George has got class written all over him. He played at the club that produced the best player to ever play Aussie Rules, North Adelaide (Barry Robran). Robran was a country boy too and the way George plays on both sides of the body and his balance tell me he is going to be a star. Hopefully for us. This kid has reams of talent, is two sided and kicks better than anyone at the club. His decision making is very good usually and he can play under extreme pressure, the final against Aspley he was wonderful. Because he was a very young draftee I think the club have been bringing him along slowly to manage his body. But now he seems to have developed a man's body by the pics I have seen like this one;

1420

[wolftone57]

Cap'n Kirk?


Hopefully Kizza can get back to his best. A couple of years ago, when he wasn't under an "injury cloud", he could win the ball and run it to the outside for a kick into the F50. Parker can also to do this but is he allowed to? Maybe if Rampe gets a run through the midfield his bigger body may help him run the ball inside out.
That being said, when we do string our handballs together the team looks great, but as Beerman alluded to, we need another option when the handballs break down.

We need the kick option

[Ludwig]

I agree re Hewett and BJ. BJ was very good in the latter part of last year and his tackling is super. He needs to get rid of that get out of gaol handball mentality though. George has got class written all over him. He played at the club that produced the best player to ever play Aussie Rules, North Adelaide (Barry Robran). Robran was a country boy too and the way George plays on both sides of the body and his balance tell me he is going to be a star. Hopefully for us. This kid has reams of talent, is two sided and kicks better than anyone at the club. His decision making is very good usually and he can play under extreme pressure, the final against Aspley he was wonderful. Because he was a very young draftee I think the club have been bringing him along slowly to manage his body. But now he seems to have developed a man's body by the pics I have seen like this one;



I think we 2 have been on the George Hewett bandwagon from the start. With all the talk about Heeney and Mills, and rightfully so, George is the forgotten one. I agree with you that he does everything right. He really is the complete package and expect he will go on to stardom.

[YvonneH]

I think we 2 have been on the George Hewett bandwagon from the start. With all the talk about Heeney and Mills, and rightfully so, George is the forgotten one. I agree with you that he does everything right. He really is the complete package and expect he will go on to stardom.

Hopefully with us and not another team.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Will we see a significant evolution of game plan in 2016 from the competition and or the swans ?

Will this alter the make up of our best 22 ?

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My gut feeling with our stacked inside mid squad is that we will kick to spots and contest more then we have the last two seasons!

[Auntie.Gerald]

Jones
Hewett
Mills
Robbo
Heeney

These players are emerging into our best 22 And their no 1 skill and reason why they standout is there in close contested skills which are an advantage vs other squads re their emerging players

[rojo]

Did anyone else read an article on the AFL website recently which examined each club's weaknesses? I cannot remember the exact details but our club was 18th in efficiency in kicking or delivery into the forward line. 18th! You would think that this is not just poor disposal skills on the part of say Hanners and Kennedy etc. but comes from the 'game plan' and structures. It will be interesting to see if changes are made for this to be different in 2016.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Did anyone else read an article on the AFL website recently which examined each club's weaknesses? I cannot remember the exact details but our club was 18th in efficiency in kicking or delivery into the forward line. 18th! You would think that this is not just poor disposal skills on the part of say Hanners and Kennedy etc. but comes from the 'game plan' and structures. It will be interesting to see if changes are made for this to be different in 2016.

That stat doesn't surprise me at all. The anoint of matches where we dominated periods and couldn't score, we would've been in a prelim had we been able to deliver into the forward line.

[wolftone57]

Jones
Hewett
Mills
Robbo
Heeney

These players are emerging into our best 22 And their no 1 skill and reason why they standout is there in close contested skills which are an advantage vs other squads re their emerging players

The other thing that stands out with all of these boys is their disposal is mostly elite.

[rojo]

That stat doesn't surprise me at all. The anoint of matches where we dominated periods and couldn't score, we would've been in a prelim had we been able to deliver into the forward line.

My point is that it has not been only the kicking skills. How many times did we either have all the mids and most of the forwards helping to defend and clog up the back half, leaving one or two players in the forward line with up to four opposition players marking them or filling the spaces, or we had all the mids and most of the backs clogging up the forward line making it near on impossible for anyone to get a clean mark and just a 50-50 fight for the ground ball. Some times the strategy worked but not often enough!