Non Swans discussion

[707]

I thought we had a thread like this but maybe not. I don't discuss non Swans stuff much but thought it noteworthy that McGuire's mouthpiece Hawthorn President Andrew Newbold has resigned two years early.(clap)

[Ludwig]

I thought we had a thread like this but maybe not. I don't discuss non Swans stuff much but thought it noteworthy that McGuire's mouthpiece Hawthorn President Andrew Newbold has resigned two years early.(clap) The boredom of premiership after premiership can be overbearing. I can understand that he needs a break. We all do.

Good idea about a thread for non-Swans matters.

I've been interested in the Cam McCarthy story and how it's been playing out. It can have a big impact on the weaker clubs, especially those in NSW and QLD, which are most affected by the 'go home' factor. There are many who are sympathetic to those players that want to leave a club to be closer to family. It's the kind of line that people can relate to. But the increasing incidents of using family as a reason to go to another club is the biggest challenge for those 'purity of the draft' fans. I wonder if this latest return to WA is just a ploy by his manager to put the pressure on GWS to release him. I hope the AFL crack down on these antics.

I have said it before, if you are the kind of person that needs to be near family, perhaps being a professional athlete in a national or international competition is not for you. It is not right to go into a national draft and then bail out on your club and teammates that are depending on you for their own success. If you're afraid of the water, perhaps a fisherman is not the profession for you. As for McCarthy, there is always the Wafl if he wants to be assured of being close to his family. The money's not as good, but I'd respect a person who put family ahead of money.

The AFL needs to stop players becoming de facto free agents outside the rules of the competition. If they don't, they should at least restore the more favourable academy drafting rules to offset the loss of players due to a desire to return to their traditional AFL states.

[Melbourne_Blood]

The boredom of premiership after premiership can be overbearing. I can understand that he needs a break. We all do.

Good idea about a thread for non-Swans matters.

I've been interested in the Cam McCarthy story and how it's been playing out. It can have a big impact on the weaker clubs, especially those in NSW and QLD, which are most affected by the 'go home' factor. There are many who are sympathetic to those players that want to leave a club to be closer to family. It's the kind of line that people can relate to. But the increasing incidents of using family as a reason to go to another club is the biggest challenge for those 'purity of the draft' fans. I wonder if this latest return to WA is just a ploy by his manager to put the pressure on GWS to release him. I hope the AFL crack down on these antics.

I have said it before, if you are the kind of person that needs to be near family, perhaps being a professional athlete in a national or international competition is not for you. It is not right to go into a national draft and then bail out on your club and teammates that are depending on you for their own success. If you're afraid of the water, perhaps a fisherman is not the profession for you. As for McCarthy, there is always the Wafl if he wants to be assured of being close to his family. The money's not as good, but I'd respect a person who put family ahead of money.

The AFL needs to stop players becoming de facto free agents outside the rules of the competition. If they don't, they should at least restore the more favourable academy drafting rules to offset the loss of players due to a desire to return to their traditional AFL states.

While I do understand where your coming from, I believe his management have mentioned he is dealing with Mental health issues. Specifically they mentioned anxiety and depression if I'm not mistaken. Perhaps these issues were pre existing and the reason he wanted to move home was to have a better support network around him to deal with those issues, or perhaps those issues arose as a result of him being homesick ( both pretty plausible scenarios, these things can be triggered in a million different ways if the mind is wired a certain way) . Regardless, if he is suffering with mental health problems , he should be afforded the time and space to deal with them in whatever way he sees fit. It would be criminal if they had the audacity to concoct a story like this just to try and get him out of the Giants. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one though, despite how convenient a story it may seem.

[Ludwig]

While I do understand where your coming from, I believe his management have mentioned he is dealing with Mental health issues. Specifically they mentioned anxiety and depression if I'm not mistaken. Perhaps these issues were pre existing and the reason he wanted to move home was to have a better support network around him to deal with those issues, or perhaps those issues arose as a result of him being homesick ( both pretty plausible scenarios, these things can be triggered in a million different ways if the mind is wired a certain way) . Regardless, if he is suffering with mental health problems , he should be afforded the time and space to deal with them in whatever way he sees fit. It would be criminal if they had the audacity to concoct a story like this just to try and get him out of the Giants. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one though, despite how convenient a story it may seem.I wouldn't put anything beyond the scope of some of these players' managers. We all know that playing the homesickness and mental health issues cards will garner sympathy from the masses. But I feel they can easily be exploited to circumvent the rules to the advantage of a player that wants to effectively become a free agent.

I'm particularly annoyed by this because, as we all know, the Swans have been penalized repeatedly for doing nothing wrong and following the rules. It doesn't seem fair that the rules can be manipulated without incurring any penalty. The Swans haven't been affected much by this particular tactic, but it has badly harmed Brisbane and Gold Coast, while GWS may manage to overcome serious impact by clever drafting as well as being given a great head start.

I do sympathize with players that are genuinely homesick, as I sympathize with those Essendon players pushed into taking banned substances and facing suspension. But the players know how the system works, whether it is the responsibility for what goes into their bodies or the draft in a national competition. We just can't have a competition where clubs are penalized for drafting interstate players.

[Melbourne_Blood]

I wouldn't put anything beyond the scope of some of these players' managers. We all know that playing the homesickness and mental health issues cards will garner sympathy from the masses. But I feel they can easily be exploited to circumvent the rules to the advantage of a player that wants to effectively become a free agent.

I'm particularly annoyed by this because, as we all know, the Swans have been penalized repeatedly for doing nothing wrong and following the rules. It doesn't seem fair that the rules can be manipulated without incurring any penalty. The Swans haven't been affected much by this particular tactic, but it has badly harmed Brisbane and Gold Coast, while GWS may manage to overcome serious impact by clever drafting as well as being given a great head start.

I do sympathize with players that are genuinely homesick, as I sympathize with those Essendon players pushed into taking banned substances and facing suspension. But the players know how the system works, whether it is the responsibility for what goes into their bodies or the draft in a national competition. We just can't have a competition where clubs are penalized for drafting interstate players.

That's where I fear having a society that is open to discussions on mental health can be a double edged sword in a way. It's great that it isn't a taboo, as people can feel more comfortable speaking up and seeking help. It does unfortunately open up opportunities for people to exploit it also, which is sad and harmful to those really suffering. I hope that isn't the case here.

[Mug Punter]

The boredom of premiership after premiership can be overbearing. I can understand that he needs a break. We all do.

Good idea about a thread for non-Swans matters.

I've been interested in the Cam McCarthy story and how it's been playing out. It can have a big impact on the weaker clubs, especially those in NSW and QLD, which are most affected by the 'go home' factor. There are many who are sympathetic to those players that want to leave a club to be closer to family. It's the kind of line that people can relate to. But the increasing incidents of using family as a reason to go to another club is the biggest challenge for those 'purity of the draft' fans. I wonder if this latest return to WA is just a ploy by his manager to put the pressure on GWS to release him. I hope the AFL crack down on these antics.

I have said it before, if you are the kind of person that needs to be near family, perhaps being a professional athlete in a national or international competition is not for you. It is not right to go into a national draft and then bail out on your club and teammates that are depending on you for their own success. If you're afraid of the water, perhaps a fisherman is not the profession for you. As for McCarthy, there is always the Wafl if he wants to be assured of being close to his family. The money's not as good, but I'd respect a person who put family ahead of money.

The AFL needs to stop players becoming de facto free agents outside the rules of the competition. If they don't, they should at least restore the more favourable academy drafting rules to offset the loss of players due to a desire to return to their traditional AFL states.

I think that GWS have dealt with this issue extremely well.

After all, the kid hadn't signed a big fat contract extension, thereby preventing GWS from re-signing one of their other kids, then I'm sure they would have engineered that move home.

I think that GWS had every right to play hard-ball and in fact I think they absolutely had to because if they didn't stick to their guns then they would be a sitting duck for every other player who played the homesick card. Not that I don't think it is real, I'm sure it is, but the reality is that we have been fighting this inherent disadvantage for decades now.

I'm also sceptical about any mental health issue card being played now and I say this as someone who has suffered from debilitating depression in my life. I'm all for an open discussion about mental health but I see that as a separate issue to him playing in Sydney. I'm afraid that there are times when people use that card to try and evoke sympathy to get what they want.

Of course if the kid really is suffering from a mental illness then he should be back home with his support network and family which is precisely what GWS have done. If he is well enough to play AFL football then he should come back to Sydney.

Bearing in mind that the kid is still getting paid a small fortune to not play footy the hard-ball decision will be what to do if he sits out a full season of AFL football? Part of me says that if he has a full season out of the game then really he will be a high risk on many levels and it s hard to see someone being that stupid to do it without just cause and that GWS should probably cut their losses and facilitate a fair trade for Freo first round pick.

In any event he is probably not going to be overly missed by GWS anyway

[YvonneH]

The 'go home' factor is becoming tiresome. Imagine the scenario where:-
- WA or SA could only draft from those states. That's about 90 players per year. What about all the other players that don't get drafted?
- Vic has 10 teams. Is there enough quality players for all of them to remain competitive?
- QLD and NSW would struggle without exclusive access to their academy players.
Not an appetising prospect in any of those scenarios.

If Cam is suffering from mental issues then I feel sorry for him. If it is just homesickness, then suck it up Cam and honour your contract.

[cartman48]

Its just amusing that his homesickness started about the same time as Freo offered him and $500K pay rise - I applaud GWS for holding there ground.

[Mug Punter]

I think Fremantle's behaviour in this matter is disgraceful but I'm not sure how the AFL can outlaw it, after all we did approach Buddy (or at least responded to his approaches) when he was under contract.

Then again I see a massive difference between a player in the last year of his contract approaching free agency exploring his options and a player with TWO years left on his deal being approached.

GWS need to be super strong on this one and so do the AFL. It really is a big reason why drafting WA boys is always going to be high risk. For starters most sandgropers I know are so sickeningly parochial there is always a huge risk they may go home. For kids drafted to Melbourne it's not such an issue due to the footy culture there but to Sydney or Bris Vegas it's high risk.

Apart from Jetta, who admittedly gave us fine service up until his last game where he was pathetic, have we drafted many WA Boys over the years? Just wondering if there is a reason for this.

As for GWS I'd say play hard ball this season. I'd release him for a season in the WAFL (on partial AFL pay) to deal with his issues with the condition that he return to GWS for pre-season next year. If he doesn't do that then they should force him to sit out 2017 and throw himself back into which ever draft he is eligible for

[Mug Punter]

Which clubs do we think will be the improvers and fallers this year?

Rising
* Melbourne
* GWS
* Geelong
* Collingwood

Falling
* Essendon (Bwahahahahaaha)
* Richmond
* Port Adelaide
* Fremantle

I can see Brisbane and St Kilda both having reasonably dire years but 2017 should see them start to improve. Carlton may rise slightly and whilst Gold Coast will win 3-4 games more they'll still be way off the pace.

North should stay around the 8th - 12h spot and Adelaide and Bulldogs could step up I guess. Geelong should make the 8 but I don't see the massive step up many are predicting as they were actually quite poor last year.

So, in summary I think West Coast and Hawthorn are the two standouts and that we are also right up there. Can see the Doggies perhaps taking the next step. GWS's progress will be interesting

[YvonneH]

Dennis Commetti to retire at end of this season.

Good lord, what will next season sound like as he is the best caller (in my opinion).
About the only one I really enjoy outside of Dennis is Anthony Hudson.
I will not denigrate the other callers by name but you know who they are don't you?

[mcs]

Dennis Commetti to retire at end of this season.

Good lord, what will next season sound like as he is the best caller (in my opinion).
About the only one I really enjoy outside of Dennis is Anthony Hudson.
I will not denigrate the other callers by name but you know who they are don't you?

Not going to be good, that is for sure, with the absolute dearth of callers around.

What a shame that Clynton Grybas was taken from us far too early. His call of the 2005 elimination final against the Cats still gives me absolute goosebumps.

[mcs]

Which clubs do we think will be the improvers and fallers this year?

Rising
* Melbourne
* GWS
* Geelong
* Collingwood

Falling
* Essendon (Bwahahahahaaha)
* Richmond
* Port Adelaide
* Fremantle

I can see Brisbane and St Kilda both having reasonably dire years but 2017 should see them start to improve. Carlton may rise slightly and whilst Gold Coast will win 3-4 games more they'll still be way off the pace.

North should stay around the 8th - 12h spot and Adelaide and Bulldogs could step up I guess. Geelong should make the 8 but I don't see the massive step up many are predicting as they were actually quite poor last year.

So, in summary I think West Coast and Hawthorn are the two standouts and that we are also right up there. Can see the Doggies perhaps taking the next step. GWS's progress will be interesting

I think this year is Norf's last chance with the current bunch to be perfectly honest. I think Geelong will improve a fair bit, but like you Mug, I don't think the rise will be big as many are predicting - I'm not sure Dangerfield is the missing piece they think he is.

West Coast will be tough to beat if they don't suffer a hangover from going so close last year, the Hawks of course will be there or there abouts, we should be pushing for Top 4 again, and Freo won't be going away (but again, it is almost last chance saloon for them, and they may fall a bit).

Doggies will be an interesting one - at their best, they are a very good team, but what they need to do now is lower the gap between their best and worst.

As for the expansion clubs , Gold Coast will improve some what, and so will GWS, but I'm not convinced either will make the 8.

Bombers for the spoon in my book, given the list of top ups is pretty ordinary, and the players missing include their best players.