This weeks NAB Challenge against Carlton [Archive] - RWO

Foreign Legion

7th March 2016, 10:30 PM

Hi all,

Long Summer absence but watching last week via the internet, I was not impressed against GWS. I know, it is a trial/practice match but some patterns are worrying.

Likes:
Mills - hard to tip out for round 1 - class act
Papley - a burst for sure but showed the ability to read the ball and tenacity - a chance to play this year
Dawson - great booming kick - hope he can get the ball more - definite player to watch but not round 1
Heeney is not injured - thought he was in trouble after Port
Sinclair - looks like he can handle the ruck and works hard - nothing outstanding but might improve a bit too.
Grundy - very good 2 games so far - looks more ready than most for round 1
Nic Newman - seen him once live and last week on TV. Like the look of him, composed and lovely kick. Might need some injuries to have any chance but he can play.

Dislikes:
FIELD KICKING! bloody terrible. Yep its early but we need this fixed quickly - Nick Smith - I love you as a player but work needed. This is the current worst element of our game.

Marks in forward 50 - can't say I've seen many... Tippett MUST play forward for the majority of each quarter.

Our Tier 2/3 players who have a few seasons under their belts but seem stuck - Lloyd, Cunningham, Towers, B.Jack, Robinson (yeah I know but he is 22 this year) If these blokes don't play much this year they should be gone

Buddy in the midfield - probably just for fitness etc but could he and Tippett possibly play 1 game in the forward line - just in case history is a guide?

I know this sounds mostly doom and gloom but if we get rolled by Carlton - without any promising signs - particularly kicking accuracy, then I will be REALLY worried.

Still positive for the year. Most recent years our Pre-Seasons have been average at best but we haven't really rested many big guns this year. If we lead Carlton at 1/2 or 3/4 time then rest players I will be happy but need to see some of the above errors addressed.

707

8th March 2016, 12:30 AM

As I've said in other threads - we don't have an AFL quality 22, run out around 18 then go into players who have failed to step up in the past. Our ability to hit targets is bottom four standard, it was an embarrassment against GWS. A win against a pathetic Carlton list this week will prove nothing, they are witches hats at best.

Injuries already have our R1 side looking vulnerable and if we pick up more we are in strife UNLESS the miraculous happens and a number of these fringe players break out.

The Tier 2/3 players you mention are rapidly moving into list clogger territory, please do something guys!

Unlike you I am bracing for not only a fall out of the top 4 but it could be a fall out of the top 8 as a number have sides have improved over summer but we haven't, we've gone backwards. Don't shoot me, I'm taking of the coloured glasses and being a hard nosed realist.

Foreign Legion

8th March 2016, 05:48 PM

G'day 707, no worries about your opinion at all. I think unless something really unexpected happens then top 4 will be VERY tough. Our kicking this year seems worse than last year - probably seeing the loss of Malceski the year before and Jetta starting to show. Yeah, I know Jetta was not an accurate kick for goal but his kicking to a man was usually accurate and travelled fast - no high loops.

Even if we beat Carlton by 10 goals I would still be wary - they have different goals from us this season I suspect. We will see.

The Big Cat

8th March 2016, 06:37 PM

Judging by past years NAB game results and the season-proper results I'll be more worried if we start looking good in these practice games!

Untamed Snark

8th March 2016, 07:04 PM

Judging by past years NAB game results and the season-proper results I'll be more worried if we start looking good in these practice games!

I'm inclined to agree with this.
Early days.

Foreign Legion

8th March 2016, 08:24 PM

O'Reilly Boy

8th March 2016, 08:38 PM

I would not be so worried if we were playing kids and the guns played a half here and there. This has not happened this year. Nothing like the days when Roosy was coaching anyway. The skill level is what worries me - not intensity. But gee I hope I am wrong!

I've not yet waded into the talk about Friday night at Drummoyne, and (not so) happily share the observations about the terrible, terrible field kicking, the apparent absence of any plan for moving the ball forward, and the prevalence of O'Keefe-esque throwing the ball onto the boot and heaving away. That all needs to improve.

HOWEVER. The Swans played with an obvious�and I would want to say, notwithstanding Horse's post game presser, a deliberate�lack of intensity. The delayed start saw the Swans boys sitting on the grass, chatting with each other, while GWS went through drills. I remarked to my companion at the time that none of them looked like they were preparing themselves for a red hot go. The game was played as opposed practice, with an attempt to get a new backline set-up playing together (Mills and Talia in particular). Very little that they tried came off, but I don't think that that it is necessarily a doomsday scenario yet. No-one seemed to get out of about second gear.

I may well be proven wrong, but I'm not throwing in the towel just yet.

Meg

8th March 2016, 10:20 PM

One thing I didn't realise during the match was that for the first two weeks of the NAB there was no cap on rotations. I have read (but now can't find) the number of rotations used by both the Swans and GWS. I think we were not much over the 90 which will be the cap during the home-and-away, while GWS used considerably more. That might be a (small) part of the explanation of our skills deficit if our players were more fatigued. Seems to me to have been sensible coaching tactics to get players accustomed to being on the field for longer periods in a stretch.

However, in the final NAB week, only six players will be allowed on the bench (still two more than in 'real' matches) with the cap on rotations brought down to the 90 limit. Will be interesting to see if there is any noticeable impact on teams generally.

liz

8th March 2016, 10:51 PM

RogueSwan

8th March 2016, 10:53 PM

... The skill level is what worries me - not intensity. But gee I hope I am wrong!
I think that, for our guys, intensity and skill go hand in hand. I guess if they are not totally in a game they are not also going to be completely focused on their next kick and its result, more about just getting through the game. In the season proper, intensity rises, instincts and reflexes dominate more and the footballer (and hopefully those drilled in skills) in them emerges.

Foreign Legion

8th March 2016, 11:02 PM

Hopefully I am just overreacting to a bad game at Drummoyne and yes the start was not ideal. The only problem with this week is that some of our "Senior" players need more game time and so some younger blokes won't be introduced. I really would love to see AA get a run, unless he is injured?

It is hard not knowing about injuries and pre-season sessions etc but a lot of our list don't get to play against VFL+ standard players - be good to see them tested.

I will go out on a limb about Nic Newman - having seen him once live (GWS at Spotless NEAFL) and on TV at Drummoyne, he could very well be a player. Reads it well and good disposal - reasonable height. God knows we need someone from half back who uses it well.

Foreign Legion

8th March 2016, 11:06 PM

You may well be right RogueSwan - I guess it is hard to see Buddy somehow being unable to kick 1+ goals in a game.

I am pretty sure he will be OK but some others have me worried skill wise.

ernie koala

9th March 2016, 09:16 AM

a lot of our list don't get to play against VFL+ standard players - be good to see them tested.

This is no longer the case. We are no longer the bullies of the NEAFL.

We play Brisbane, Gold Coast and GWS (the new bullies), along with some other pretty handy sides.

We, along with Brisbane, Gold Coast and GWS, also have the distinct advantage of having our own reserves team, unlike the rest of the competition.

We therefore have total control on our reserves developement, play them in whatever position and whatever style, amount of game time, etc etc, that suits our coaches.

This is an advantage you would hope leads to better depth.

The Big Cat

9th March 2016, 11:25 AM

People forget that against GWS, Sydney stayed within the 90 interchanges while GWS went with much larger rotations. Made a big difference

Scottee

9th March 2016, 11:54 AM

Since we do need to "find" a handful more players capable of playing senior footy this year, I hope they rotate the fringe players from last week. I'd keep anyone whose close to a certainty for a round 1 spot (unless anyone has a niggle that needs managing). That means Mills stays, as do Cunningham and Towers. Even though these two remain at the bottom of our best team, with the injuries to Rohan, McVeigh and Reid, they are both sit comfortably in our best likely available 22 for round 1.

Jones will get another game, given they want / need to get him up to match fitness quickly. He may not be deemed fit enough for round 1 but he's up there in the pecking order when he does get enough game time under his belt. I'd like to see Papley get another game. Last week was his first chance and he earned another go. Similarly with Newman. He'll be in senior team calculations, so he should get another game.

But then I hope Hewitt gets a second game, after missing out last week. Robinson has played two without impressing so I'd swap the two. Similarly with Jack and Rose, whose been close but missed out both times. And maybe switch around Aliir and X, though that might depend on whether Ted is available.

Though given that the squad size reduces by three players, some of my "outs" will likely lose their spots without my "ins" getting a go. I suspect Dawson will lose his spot, notwithstanding his excellent cameos. So it could be Dawson, Robinson, Jack and X out, with just Hewitt in. Or more likely we'll see one or both of Robinson and Jack keep their spots, with Hewitt left on the sidelines and Papley cut.
I've been thinking along similar lines Liz, although with a couple of differences. Bearing in mind we have a couple of Gorillas to contend with in the Pies forward line in round one I would persevere with X and Talia and rest Reg who seems to be in fine form and does not seem to need the run. Give X a full game and compare him to Talia before deciding on who plays round 1.

I would really like to see Aliir get a bit of a go and I think he should be tried on the wing given his speed and reasonable disposal, both of which are in short supply.

I agree re Robbo, BJ and Dawson, Robbo has really struggled for form and it's just too soon for Dawson. Sadly, BJ doesn't seem to have developed the poise that he needs to be in the team.

Papley definitely needs to line up in part because if we have Hewett, Parker and Papley in the side we have 3 players who are good on either foot which is a great advantage.

I also wonder whether Mills should also be tried on the wing given the number of Swans he skittled in the back line. His delivery is good and it could be a real bonus to have him delivering forward.

A case could be made for Marsh on half back given our back line woes, he does at least have speed and can kick .He also wasn't too bad against Port .It then becomes a matter of who else you would leave out however.

Levii3

9th March 2016, 12:33 PM

Little surprised Dawson and Leo weren't named and Hiscox was Experienced squad named - sydneyswans.com.au (http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2016-03-09/experienced-squad-named)

Scottee

9th March 2016, 12:47 PM

Little surprised Dawson and Leo weren't named and Hiscox was Experienced squad named - sydneyswans.com.au (http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2016-03-09/experienced-squad-named)

I can understand the 2 youngest and greenest guys not getting a go for the final hitout, better to test them out in the NEAFL at this stage.

But why is Hiscox back??? Please not him ahead of Rose and Hewett.

Looks like Talia is preferred over X.

Robbo and BJ very lucky to be there.

Ludwig

9th March 2016, 01:04 PM

We still need to cut 2 from the final team. I think it will be from these 5: Rose, Hiscox, Robbo, BJ and Newman. I'd leave out Hiscox and either BJ or Robbo. Hewett comes into the final side after being cut last week.

It looks as if we will be going with a round 1 backline of Talia, Grundy and Laidler with the possibility of Ted, Reid and Macca ready to into the side for round 2 or 3.

707

9th March 2016, 02:27 PM

Good to see Rose, Newman, Hewett and Papley named, I hope they make the final team because all four need to step up for us and appear the most likely types long term. Rose and Papley clever small/med forwards, Hewett to add to the midfield rotations and Newman looks to be a very promising HBF with poise and good skills.

Hiscox has shown little other than speed and endurance, even at a lower level so he seems to be a long way off seniors.

ugg

9th March 2016, 02:40 PM

ugg

9th March 2016, 02:52 PM

Here's Carlton's list

1 Andrew Walker
4 Bryce Gibbs
6 Kade Simpson (C)
7 Dylan Buckley
8 Matthew Kreuzer
9 Patrick Cripps
11 Sam Kerridge
12 Blaine Boekhorst
13 Jed Lamb
15 Sam Docherty
17 Sam Rowe
22 Jason Tutt
23 Jacob Weitering
24 Mark Whiley
30 Charlie Curnow
32 Nick Graham
33 Andrejs Everitt
34 Andrew Phillips
35 Ed Curnow
37 Daniel Gorringe
38 Ciaran Byrne
39 Dale Thomas
40 Michael Jamison
41 Levi Casboult
42 Zach Tuohy
43 Simon White
46 Matthew Wright

chuckie

9th March 2016, 03:09 PM

I was just reading the article on the Swans Web Site "We learnt a lot" and Grundy talks about the turnovers.
There are times in football matches where it is best to take the mark or free kick and just go back and look at your options before kicking it. So many times we just play on without looking and then find out that there is no one ahead of us to kick it to, so we have to try an invent something or handball or a silly little kick that results in turnovers. The other one is the "Rhyce Shaw" run past the man with the ball and receive the handball then look up and as above there is no one to kick it to, or the player than runs to the wrong side then realises he can't kick with his opposite foot so he has to turn back and he either kicks it further back or to the same place it came from surely you would check on your options before demanding the ball. I think if we just slowed it down sometimes we may not turn it over as much.

Ludwig

9th March 2016, 04:28 PM

I think if we just slowed it down sometimes we may not turn it over as much.A solution, in part, is finding more time and space, which should lead to more effective disposal, although some of our players make far too many unpressured disposal errors. It's hard to slow the game down if under intense pressure, which was the case against GWS. And if an equal amount of pressure is not applied when the other side have the ball, it only makes it easier for them to move the ball down field and add to the pressure on us.

Work rate is certainly a major factor in the pressure game. Get more players to the contest. Run harder to get open to receive the ball. Work rate has to be a key part of our game, at least until we get better users of the ball. We are making progress regarding ball use by drafting players with better skills, but the transition will take years, not months. Heeney, Mills, Jones and Hewett should go a long way to improving our ball use. Hopefully recent draftees like O'Riordan, Newman, Dawson and Leonardis will make an impact in the coming years. We have a problem in that some of more wasteful ball users, like Mitchell, Hanners and Rampe, are among our best players in other parts of the game.

Levii3

9th March 2016, 04:39 PM

We have a problem in that some of more wasteful ball users, like Mitchell, Hanners and Rampe, are among our best players in other parts of the game.
Since when is Hanners one of our wasteful ball users? He doesn't bomb away kicks to a contest or finds a free target has clean hands

wolftone57

9th March 2016, 04:53 PM

Since we do need to "find" a handful more players capable of playing senior footy this year, I hope they rotate the fringe players from last week. I'd keep anyone whose close to a certainty for a round 1 spot (unless anyone has a niggle that needs managing). That means Mills stays, as do Cunningham and Towers. Even though these two remain at the bottom of our best team, with the injuries to Rohan, McVeigh and Reid, they are both sit comfortably in our best likely available 22 for round 1.

Jones will get another game, given they want / need to get him up to match fitness quickly. He may not be deemed fit enough for round 1 but he's up there in the pecking order when he does get enough game time under his belt. I'd like to see Papley get another game. Last week was his first chance and he earned another go. Similarly with Newman. He'll be in senior team calculations, so he should get another game.

But then I hope Hewitt gets a second game, after missing out last week. Robinson has played two without impressing so I'd swap the two. Similarly with Jack and Rose, whose been close but missed out both times. And maybe switch around Aliir and X, though that might depend on whether Ted is available.

Though given that the squad size reduces by three players, some of my "outs" will likely lose their spots without my "ins" getting a go. I suspect Dawson will lose his spot, notwithstanding his excellent cameos. So it could be Dawson, Robinson, Jack and X out, with just Hewitt in. Or more likely we'll see one or both of Robinson and Jack keep their spots, with Hewitt left on the sidelines and Papley cut.

I think you had the right of it. X, Robbo, BJ, but I'd keep Dawson and drop Toby. The reason for this is that we will not play a three way ruck set up in the first match unless Tip plays only forward and not in the ruck, which I can't see happening. We played 9 defenders and at least one has to come out. I'd rest Laids as he as far as I'm concerned is an automatic selection for the first game and has played well. Him and Reg have both played well. The ones who seem to need the practice are Smithy (dreadful so far), Jones (fitness), Ramps (not much better than Smithy), Talia, Newman & Mills (the last three need to get used to their teammates and set ups).

In saying that i would bring in Aliir for X (I think he has been good in his cameos) if X comes out, although I'd like to see Reg have a rest and us to keep X and see what the Aliir, X, Talia combo can do. But it won't happen.

As for the forwards and mids I'd like to see Rose & Hewett in and Robbo, Toby, BJ & Harry rested. Harry was terrible last week. Let's try an alternative. Rose or Dawson on a wing.

I think then that this is what I'd like to see;

Out; Laids (rested) & Reg (rested), BJ, Robbo, Toby (although I think he has been ok there is no place for three rucks)

in; Rose, Hewett, Aliir

Ludwig

9th March 2016, 05:34 PM

Since when is Hanners one of our wasteful ball users? He doesn't bomb away kicks to a contest or finds a free target has clean handsHanners is big time ball winner and an elite runner. He creates lots of time and space for himself, which makes him such a great player. But given how often he has the ball in upressured situations, he really doesn't hit targets often enough and is a poor kick on his right side. It's the one weakness in an otherwise elite game.

Foreign Legion

9th March 2016, 05:43 PM

I think you had the right of it. X, Robbo, BJ, but I'd keep Dawson and drop Toby. The reason for this is that we will not play a three way ruck set up in the first match unless Tip plays only forward and not in the ruck, which I can't see happening. We played 9 defenders and at least one has to come out. I'd rest Laids as he as far as I'm concerned is an automatic selection for the first game and has played well. Him and Reg have both played well. The ones who seem to need the practice are Smithy (dreadful so far), Jones (fitness), Ramps (not much better than Smithy), Talia, Newman & Mills (the last three need to get used to their teammates and set ups).

In saying that i would bring in Aliir for X (I think he has been good in his cameos) if X comes out, although I'd like to see Reg have a rest and us to keep X and see what the Aliir, X, Talia combo can do. But it won't happen.

As for the forwards and mids I'd like to see Rose & Hewett in and Robbo, Toby, BJ & Harry rested. Harry was terrible last week. Let's try an alternative. Rose or Dawson on a wing.

I think then that this is what I'd like to see;

Out; Laids (rested) & Reg (rested), BJ, Robbo, Toby (although I think he has been ok there is no place for three rucks)

in; Rose, Hewett, Aliir

Good point about Laidler, he has looked pretty good and can do with a break but he might need the run due to a restricted pre-season etc - not sure. I think we are crazy not to play Aliir - got to test him against better opposition and see what he can do. Grundy has had a great 2 games and should get a break - he is critical for round 1 if Teddy is doubtful in any way. Would like to see if Rose's 3 goal 1/4 against GWS was a total fluke or not - hope not heh.

wolftone57

9th March 2016, 05:45 PM

I think that, for our guys, intensity and skill go hand in hand. I guess if they are not totally in a game they are not also going to be completely focused on their next kick and its result, more about just getting through the game. In the season proper, intensity rises, instincts and reflexes dominate more and the footballer (and hopefully those drilled in skills) in them emerges.

do you remember in 2010 and early 2011. They just seemed to be going around for the sake of it. Then horse changed the game plan and suddenly there was so much excitement about the place. they started playing great footy and seemed to be really enjoying themselves. I think that is what is needed now. We need a totally new game plan to get the players excited. I think they are bored.

Ludwig

9th March 2016, 05:53 PM

Good point about Laidler, he has looked pretty good and can do with a break but he might need the run due to a restricted pre-season etc - not sure. I think we are crazy not to play Aliir - got to test him against better opposition and see what he can do. Grundy has had a great 2 games and should get a break - he is critical for round 1 if Teddy is doubtful in any way. Would like to see if Rose's 3 goal 1/4 against GWS was a total fluke or not - hope not heh.The reason we are likely to play both Reg and Laidler is that we need to work on the chemistry of bringing 2 new players into the back six in Talia and Mills, and even Jones only has a few full games under his belt. We should have tested Allir in the first game, but the thinking must have been that X was ahead of him so there was little chance of him playing in the early rounds of the season, if at all this year. Talia is definitely part of our long term plans for our back six and we are likely to stick with his development unless he turns out to be a total flop. So far, he looks good enough for a 30 game player.

wolftone57

9th March 2016, 06:29 PM

This is no longer the case. We are no longer the bullies of the NEAFL.

We play Brisbane, Gold Coast and GWS (the new bullies), along with some other pretty handy sides.

We, along with Brisbane, Gold Coast and GWS, also have the distinct advantage of having our own reserves team, unlike the rest of the competition.

We therefore have total control on our reserves developement, play them in whatever position and whatever style, amount of game time, etc etc, that suits our coaches.

This is an advantage you would hope leads to better depth.

you say we, along with GWS, Suns and Lions, have our own reserves teams unlike the rest of the comp. That statement is flawed in that Essendon, Collingwood, Geelong, Footscray Reserves (yes they say Footscray) and Box Hill may as well be Hawks reserves because their coaches are paid by Hawthorn. they train together for the most part.

wolftone57

9th March 2016, 06:41 PM

I've been thinking along similar lines Liz, although with a couple of differences. Bearing in mind we have a couple of Gorillas to contend with in the Pies forward line in round one I would persevere with X and Talia and rest Reg who seems to be in fine form and does not seem to need the run. Give X a full game and compare him to Talia before deciding on who plays round 1.

I would really like to see Aliir get a bit of a go and I think he should be tried on the wing given his speed and reasonable disposal, both of which are in short supply.

I agree re Robbo, BJ and Dawson, Robbo has really struggled for form and it's just too soon for Dawson. Sadly, BJ doesn't seem to have developed the poise that he needs to be in the team.

Papley definitely needs to line up in part because if we have Hewett, Parker and Papley in the side we have 3 players who are good on either foot which is a great advantage.

I also wonder whether Mills should also be tried on the wing given the number of Swans he skittled in the back line. His delivery is good and it could be a real bonus to have him delivering forward.

A case could be made for Marsh on half back given our back line woes, he does at least have speed and can kick .He also wasn't too bad against Port .It then becomes a matter of who else you would leave out however.

Marsh got 4 disposals in 2.5 quarters. He wasted 2 of them. He let his man off the hook several times.

wolftone57

9th March 2016, 07:04 PM

[QUOTE=Scottee;690398]I can understand the 2 youngest and greenest guys not getting a go for the final hitout, better to test them out in the NEAFL at this stage.

But why is Hiscox back??? Please not him ahead of Rose and Hewett.

Looks like Talia is preferred over X.

Robbo and BJ very lucky to be ther

Robbo & BJ very lucky indeed. I would have chucked them both out to play NEAFL next week. They were shocking. I want players who give you something. I don't care if Dawson and Leonardis are green they actually do stuff. I'd rather them getting anther game than the others and Hiscox is hopeless, can't kick and stuffs it up. Marsh is a waste of list space as is Derrickx.

I fail to see what good keeping Reg in who is bloody fantastic and won't benefit by the run when we could give Aliir a go and see how he handles the monsters. He handled Bud really well in the Intra. In fact I thought he was one of the best in the Intra. Don't know why horse doesn't like him? Maybe he doesn't buy lollies for the boss. If I was him I would be asking why I keep getting overlooked.

By the way Lloydie was dreadful last week too. Couldn't get a kick in an electricity generation station. The others (BJ & Robbo) couldn't get touched up in a brothel they were so far from their opponents. Maybe they had BO their opponents were running so fast in the other direction. The NAB is about trying players. Scottee Papley is still in and he is youngest and greenest too. I hope Hewett plays, the kid has talent and he at least can deliver the ball. Something most of the others can't seem to do. Newman, Hewett, Papley, Heeney, Mills, Macca, Dawson, Leonardis, Laids (75%of the time) all have very good disposal. But of course 2 years under Horse and they will be cured of that, all except Macca who is incurable.

Meg

9th March 2016, 07:07 PM

you say we, along with GWS, Suns and Lions, have our own reserves teams unlike the rest of the comp. That statement is flawed in that Essendon, Collingwood, Geelong, Footscray Reserves (yes they say Footscray) and Box Hill may as well be Hawks reserves because their coaches are paid by Hawthorn. they train together for the most part.

And Port Adelaide and the Adelaide Crows have had their own reserves teams playing in the SANFL since 2014.

Foreign Legion

9th March 2016, 07:42 PM

The reason we are likely to play both Reg and Laidler is that we need to work on the chemistry of bringing 2 new players into the back six in Talia and Mills, and even Jones only has a few full games under his belt. We should have tested Allir in the first game, but the thinking must have been that X was ahead of him so there was little chance of him playing in the early rounds of the season, if at all this year. Talia is definitely part of our long term plans for our back six and we are likely to stick with his development unless he turns out to be a total flop. So far, he looks good enough for a 30 game player.

I think Talia looks pretty good so far and is certainly useful if Ted has ongoing problems.

Levii3

9th March 2016, 11:02 PM

Herald Sun says we have the number 3 midfield six in the comp and number 1 for quality and 15 for depth http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-2016-collingwood-has-more-midfielders-than-any-other-afl-club-but-are-they-any-good/news-story/4bfa7afe898c7170ee7e010bba0a6000 1437

liz

10th March 2016, 12:37 AM

Plugger46

10th March 2016, 08:11 AM

Spot on Liz. Amazing what the recruitment of one player can do.

dimelb

10th March 2016, 08:40 AM

Table looks odd. It assesses Freo to have a better top six mids than Sydney and better depth, yet comes out with us overall ahead of Freo.

I find it hard to believe the Cats best six mids are better than the Swans' best six. They've got a very good best two (but so do we). But they drop away far quicker from that very high echelon, at least on my biased and subjective (ie non-statistical) assessment of their next group against ours.

I think "better depth" refers purely to the number of mids on the list; we don't go as deep in mids as Freo, but the listed ones we have are better quality.

I think you're right about the comparison with the Cats.

And tomorrow night looks interesting: the best midfield in the comp against the worst! Ignoring possible absentees of course.

dejavoodoo44

10th March 2016, 10:05 AM

I think "better depth" refers purely to the number of mids on the list; we don't go as deep in mids as Freo, but the listed ones we have are better quality.

I think you're right about the comparison with the Cats.

And tomorrow night looks interesting: the best midfield in the comp against the worst! Ignoring possible absentees of course.

And it's curious how the worst midfield in the comp has three number one draft picks. Which is probably a reflection on both that table and the importance of number one draft picks.

wolftone57

10th March 2016, 07:22 PM

Table looks odd. It assesses Freo to have a better top six mids than Sydney and better depth, yet comes out with us overall ahead of Freo.

I find it hard to believe the Cats best six mids are better than the Swans' best six. They've got a very good best two (but so do we). But they drop away far quicker from that very high echelon, at least on my biased and subjective (ie non-statistical) assessment of their next group against ours.

I don't know Liz. danger is pretty good as is Guthry, Duncan, Selwood, Blitsavs, Murdoch, Gregson and Motlop is a pretty handy midfield. the thing is most of those players can hit a player up on a lead. they can dispose with efficiency. Most of our mids seem incapable of doing the same. I'd hazard a guess and say itr is the coaching regime nt the lack of ability.

wolftone57

10th March 2016, 07:25 PM

Spot on Liz. Amazing what the recruitment of one player can do.

Sorry Plugger but their mids absolutely destroyed ours at Kardinia Park last year. Guthrie was super. Bliclavs was wonderful. We were slaughtered and they didn't have Danger then.

Auntie.Gerald

10th March 2016, 10:11 PM

hawks mids - why not no 1 ?

liz

10th March 2016, 10:43 PM

Sorry Plugger but their mids absolutely destroyed ours at Kardinia Park last year. Guthrie was super. Bliclavs was wonderful. We were slaughtered and they didn't have Danger then.

They outplayed the Swans in the second half only, after the Swans had a couple of goals lead at half-time but then seemed to think the game was over. It was possibly the most disappointing performance by the Swans for the year. But they lost by slightly less than they beat the Cats by in the first meeting of last season, where Parker was super and the likes of Mitchell, McVeigh and Kennedy weren't too shoddy either.

There's no denying that Selwood and Danger are quality players but both finished below both Kennedy and Hanners in the AFLCA awards and Brownlow count last year. Those two aren't half bad either. Motlop is a small forward who occasionally rotates through the midfield. He's yet to show he's a proper midfielder. Duncan's a good player but so are Jack, Parker and Mitchell. I'd take any of those over Gregson who's only entering his second season (and is still just a part time mid) or Guthrie, or Murdoch (or Caddy, who you didn't mention). Indeed, Gregson's not much more of a midfielder yet than Heeney is. I know I'd take Heeney first.

I don't deny Geelong has a pretty decent midfield. We don't have anyone to compare to Biclavs (though they don't have anyone with the attributes of Tippett either). Sydney's list has holes - everything beyond the first 15 or so players, for instance. But I rate our top half dozen or so mids, especially the ball winning mids, as a stronger and more proven bunch.

Plugger46

10th March 2016, 10:57 PM

Sorry Plugger but their mids absolutely destroyed ours at Kardinia Park last year. Guthrie was super. Bliclavs was wonderful. We were slaughtered and they didn't have Danger then.

That's one game of footy. Ours beat theirs a couple of months earlier.

It's not about a head-to-head battle anyway. Any side's midfield can get their pants pulled down on a given day or night.

Our midfield has led us to four consecutive top 4 finishes. They're a pretty good bunch. The Geelong group may well go beyond the Swans' group in 2016 but for the time being, we've got the runs on the board.

mcs

11th March 2016, 09:44 AM

That's one game of footy. Ours beat theirs a couple of months earlier.

It's not about a head-to-head battle anyway. Any side's midfield can get their pants pulled down on a given day or night.

Our midfield has led us to four consecutive top 4 finishes. They're a pretty good bunch. The Geelong group may well go beyond the Swans' group in 2016 but for the time being, we've got the runs on the board.

I think Geelong more generally will not live up to the super hyped-up expectations we've been hearing from all and sundry this year. They have a good midfield on paper, but I still don't buy they'll be anything more than a 5-12 team, a group which will contain a lot of even teams within it. Plenty are talking them up as genuine premiership challengers, but I don't see it - even with Dangerfield in there (who despite being a mighty fine footballer, I really do think is over-rated somewhat).

jono2707

11th March 2016, 01:40 PM

I think Geelong will be the team to beat this year if they have Biclavs, Bliclavs and Blitsavs all lining up alongside Blicavs.

snajik

11th March 2016, 02:23 PM

They outplayed the Swans in the second half only, after the Swans had a couple of goals lead at half-time but then seemed to think the game was over. It was possibly the most disappointing performance by the Swans for the year. But they lost by slightly less than they beat the Cats by in the first meeting of last season, where Parker was super and the likes of Mitchell, McVeigh and Kennedy weren't too shoddy either.

There's no denying that Selwood and Danger are quality players but both finished below both Kennedy and Hanners in the AFLCA awards and Brownlow count last year. Those two aren't half bad either. Motlop is a small forward who occasionally rotates through the midfield. He's yet to show he's a proper midfielder. Duncan's a good player but so are Jack, Parker and Mitchell. I'd take any of those over Gregson who's only entering his second season (and is still just a part time mid) or Guthrie, or Murdoch (or Caddy, who you didn't mention). Indeed, Gregson's not much more of a midfielder yet than Heeney is. I know I'd take Heeney first.

I don't deny Geelong has a pretty decent midfield. We don't have anyone to compare to Biclavs (though they don't have anyone with the attributes of Tippett either). Sydney's list has holes - everything beyond the first 15 or so players, for instance. But I rate our top half dozen or so mids, especially the ball winning mids, as a stronger and more proven bunch.
I think also that it should be remembered this was Goodesy's 'comeback' game after he took himself out of the game for the previous match against Adelaide. Much energy went into making his return to the game as accommodating as it could have been, which is just how it should have happened. It no doubt would have been an emotional week for the team (emotional couple of weeks) and it wouldn't surprise me that these external issues had an emotional toll that consequently affected their performance at Kardinia Park, and possibly compounded by Geelong wanting to get it right for their spiritual leader Joel Selwood who was playing his 200th. Probably not the ideal game in which to assess the team's performance.

wolftone57

11th March 2016, 03:52 PM

They outplayed the Swans in the second half only, after the Swans had a couple of goals lead at half-time but then seemed to think the game was over. It was possibly the most disappointing performance by the Swans for the year. But they lost by slightly less than they beat the Cats by in the first meeting of last season, where Parker was super and the likes of Mitchell, McVeigh and Kennedy weren't too shoddy either.

There's no denying that Selwood and Danger are quality players but both finished below both Kennedy and Hanners in the AFLCA awards and Brownlow count last year. Those two aren't half bad either. Motlop is a small forward who occasionally rotates through the midfield. He's yet to show he's a proper midfielder. Duncan's a good player but so are Jack, Parker and Mitchell. I'd take any of those over Gregson who's only entering his second season (and is still just a part time mid) or Guthrie, or Murdoch (or Caddy, who you didn't mention). Indeed, Gregson's not much more of a midfielder yet than Heeney is. I know I'd take Heeney first.

I don't deny Geelong has a pretty decent midfield. We don't have anyone to compare to Biclavs (though they don't have anyone with the attributes of Tippett either). Sydney's list has holes - everything beyond the first 15 or so players, for instance. But I rate our top half dozen or so mids, especially the ball winning mids, as a stronger and more proven bunch.

Our mids are wonderful at getting the ball but are wasteful. When we don't have one mid in the top 100 efficient disposers then we need to look at ehat they are doing with it. In fact the first of our mids on the disposal efficiency is over 300. That's pretty crap. yes they get heaps of the ball and if it weren't for our forwards and their wonderful pressure and the backs moving up to cut off the fast rebound the mids would have a lot of egg on their faces. Far too wasteful. don't know if it's game plan or just low skills level but we need to be far more efficient to beat Hawks in a grand final. I think you will also find this year sides will start to exploit out inefficiencies much more.

We have to be better. It's not that these players can't do it, they did in 2012 and Mitchell did for the most part in his matches last year although he is not a naturally gifted pass or position kick. Heens has wonderful skills. Hewett if he plays tonight might just get to show off his skills. So far I have not seen great skills because the game plan simply doesn't allow for great skill. Bombing the ball constantly to the forward line is not skilful it is insanity.

ugg

11th March 2016, 04:32 PM

CARLTON
Out: Jason Tutt, Charlie Curnow, Ciaran Byrne

SYDNEY SWANS
Out: Jack Hiscox, Daniel Robinson, Brandon Jack

Means the final changes from last week's team are

In: Rose, Hewett
Out: Jordan DAWSON, Brandon JACK, Xavier RICHARDS, Daniel ROBINSON

aardvark

11th March 2016, 04:45 PM

Glad to see Rose finally getting a game, I don't mind Hewett either.

churry

11th March 2016, 04:46 PM

Happy with those team changes.

aguy

11th March 2016, 04:54 PM

I would have been happy to see hiscox get a run and rest either reg or laids. Neither of the latter two need the run. They have been good. And it's the last chance to see a young guy play at top level.

liz

11th March 2016, 05:47 PM

That is pretty much my wishlist of changes that I posted earlier in the week, so I'm happy. Interesting that they are retaining the 3rd ruckman but it probably makes sense. While Big Toby is unlikely to be in the round 1 team, we're likely to need him sooner rather than later, given how injury prone ruckmen tend to be. It's helpful to get him as much senior level exposure as possible.

wolftone57

11th March 2016, 06:01 PM

Scrappy so far. delivery still crap.

Melbourne_Blood

11th March 2016, 06:01 PM

Good to see the off season kicking under pressure/duress drills are reaping dividends..[emoji15]

Levii3

11th March 2016, 06:06 PM

Newman looks ok so far, jack started back 6

aardvark

11th March 2016, 06:21 PM

Young Papley is a ripper. Hard at it and good skills.

aguy

11th March 2016, 06:22 PM

Looking a little better this week. Still plenty of turnovers from dropped marks but at least targets are Being identified more constistently. The field kicking has been noticeable better as has the separation

wolftone57

11th March 2016, 06:25 PM

Papley looks the goods. Newman other than that one kick has been impressive with delivery. Scrappy. All the attacks have come from rebound footy as usual. Need to clear the ball. Not impressed with the centre set ups so far.

aguy

11th March 2016, 06:27 PM

Definitely looks the goods. Papley go

Levii3

11th March 2016, 06:27 PM

Man Papley is going to play round 1

Cheer_Cheer

11th March 2016, 06:32 PM

Is this watchable on free to air or streaming ?

ugg

11th March 2016, 06:59 PM

Did Talia injure himself on the bench? Pretty sure he didn't play a single second

aguy

11th March 2016, 07:01 PM

Zac jones looks like he's the one to partner with mills and replace shaw and Malceski coming out of the backline.

I know jones was always touted as shaws replacement but he's looking it tonight. Still rusty from not much of a preseason and he's still only had a handful of games. Plenty of upside there

Levii3

11th March 2016, 07:12 PM

at times it looked like shaw running without looking or knowing what he's going to do next, is we can settle mills jones and newman down back kicking will improve. Cripps is monstering us inside JPK only 9 touches Mitchells playing a good game though

aguy

11th March 2016, 07:19 PM

Agreed jones did look like he didn't know what to do next. But that will come pretty quickly I think for jones

Mel_C

11th March 2016, 07:43 PM

OMG I thought Buddy had done a groin and I was freaking out. But it was a knock to a sensitive area :eek:.

Hope Jack hasn't injured his ribs again. Don't risk him!

You can tell Bolton used to coach at Hawthorn the way Carlton niggle us after every contest.

aguy

11th March 2016, 07:52 PM

I think our midfield has started to wind down for the game.

Flying South

11th March 2016, 07:53 PM

ugg

11th March 2016, 07:54 PM

So looks like Grundy 1st half Talia 2nd half which is good man management I suppose but I thought it would be more important for the two to play together if they will be lining up as our key defended in round 1

Foreign Legion

11th March 2016, 08:02 PM

Massively underwhelming qtr. So many mistakes and fumbles

aguy

11th March 2016, 08:03 PM

Hewett also needs to play round one. Skills are great and he makes good decisions.

MattW

11th March 2016, 08:05 PM

Buddy's best game of the pre-season, which is somewhat comforting.

- - - Updated - - -

Hewett also needs to play round one. Skills are great and he makes good decisions.

Yep, he's a reassuring player. You expect him to do the right thing.

Flying South

11th March 2016, 08:06 PM

Hewett also needs to play round one. Skills are great and he makes good decisions.
Agreed. And surely Papley needs to be elevated and is a good chance to play round 1.

aguy

11th March 2016, 08:24 PM

Papley and Newman should be elevated if you ask me. Both showed enough to suggest that they can bring something useful to the seniors.

- - - Updated - - -

And well done to buddy for his first interview after his return to footy :)

Mug Punter

11th March 2016, 08:28 PM

Ludwig

11th March 2016, 08:40 PM

Now, the negatives
* I just do not rate Zak Jones, poor disposal and he seems slow
* Likewise Nankervis offers us very little
* Cannot believe the commentators gave Newman a wrap, I though he was appalling, terrible disposal and nowhere near AFL standard
* Not sure about Talia, I'd much prefer him on the edges of the squad than looking like he will be in the 22

Agree with the positives. Also really liked the looks of Hewett and Papley.

But put into the context of the game where there were so many dropped marks and some poor kicking from experienced players, I thought Jones was pretty good. We know he's pretty quick and a good kick from previous games, but sure he makes his fair share of miskicks, but there are plenty on the Swans who are worse. The 'Bests' list is not be all and end all, but Jones made the bests list. Thought Newman played well for someone who has yet to play an AFL home and away game. Not sure what kind of criticism can be made about Talia; though he was solid enough.

Also good to see Lloyd getting more of the ball again. He needs to keep improving.

aguy

11th March 2016, 08:47 PM

I too think jones is worthy to keep going with. He's hardly had a preseason remember so his disposal was understandably not good but he broke lines regularly coming off half back and we need that

Foreign Legion

11th March 2016, 08:48 PM

A decent win and some good signs there

Some random points
* Buddy looks fit and healthy and ready to go
* Upgrade Papley now, what gem in the rookie draft emerging already, he looks very aggressive and composed and knows how to find the footy, there is our small forward for mine and I reckon he could be a bolter for Round 1
* Hewett should be an automatic selection this year, he looks composed and very much an AFL senior footballer
* Heeney has been very impressive all pre-season for mine and looks set to fire
* Likewise Mills looks very impressive and will be right to go round 1
* Rose really impressed me tonight, I haven't bought into his hype but he showed a bit tonight to suggest he'll play a good 12-15 games this year

Now, the negatives
* I just do not rate Zak Jones, poor disposal and he seems slow
* Likewise Nankervis offers us very little
* Cannot believe the commentators gave Newman a wrap, I though he was appalling, terrible disposal and nowhere near AFL standard
* Not sure about Talia, I'd much prefer him on the edges of the squad than looking like he will be in the 22

Admittedly I did not see the last qtr as I have a 6 year old and needed to get home but I thought that Jones was OK. Not great, he gets it a lot and seems pretty quick but did turn it over a few times. I think that he has an interrupted pre season but I really don't think you can call him slow.

Newman (who I gave a thumbs up to at the start of this thread) seems pretty good to me. He is a good kick (which we lack in the back half now) and seems pretty focused. Not sure he deserves a round 1 - especially if Ted comes back but he is a handy depth player if Rampe or Smith get injured.

Papley is very busy - I would be a little worried if I was McGlynn.

Reggi

11th March 2016, 08:50 PM

Way home from the game

Sinclair was good we struggled when he went off
Jones was fantastic the difference in our backline when he and Grundy were off was huge. Smart player tough, gave us run. Made some mistakes they all do

Newman was good and improved as the game went on, early he was caught out by the pace
Mills an Heeney were good Heeney was running freely

Talia needs to lift his intensity

Scrappy but good to see Horse give lots of young guys a run

Mug Punter

11th March 2016, 08:53 PM

Levii3

11th March 2016, 08:55 PM

The thing with talia is that it takes longer for KPDs to adapt to new structures and develop chemistry to add to the positives Tom Mitchell solid game, Towers attacked the ball better and Hannebery was amazing showed why he's in the leadership group.

Negative
Tippett and Sinclair had good games but didn't hit the scoreboard

jono2707

11th March 2016, 08:57 PM

We looked a hell of a lot better when Sinclair was on the field. He's been impressive so far so I hope that bodes well for the season proper.

wolftone57

11th March 2016, 09:00 PM

I thought we performed in an underwhelming fashion tonight. There were some patches which were very good but there were too many times when we got caught out with an overlap. I know how Bolton was doing this as his old side do it to us every time. We play a zone and don't actually man up giving them plenty of time to get passes off. If we continue to do this good sides will spank us and a few ordinary ones will get wins too. There were quite a few positives, we won is the first. But the young players were very good.

Papley, Newman & Hewett were really good. Rose was only a bit player. We need to think about our side for the first game. If Teddy is not up to it then the others can cover. Talia was not too bad and managed to manage the monster (Casboult).

Good Points;

Generally Newman can actually kick. There were two bad examples out of twenty odd. He will get even better as he gets used to the other players. He has in the Twos.

Hewett proved tonight just how good he is. His kicking tonight was superb. I love how he caressed that ball in the last. He also put so much effort into keeping the ball in the forward line when resting. He played really good midfield tonight. Especially as Joey was very quiet.

Papley is a hard little nut. A brazil nut I think. Boy is he great to have there. I think he will be more than ok. He isn't too bloody slow either. His tackling is super. He crumbs and burrows like an old pro. Not scared of AFL and seems very much at home.

Rose; Was a bit player compared to the other new boys.

I thought we were very loose in our contact with opponents but that is the game plan. We zone off. Bloody stupid as it doesn't bloody well work.

Hannas form was really good and a real positive as he actually kicked very well too.

The form of Joey is worrying. He got less than 20 possies again.

Tippet can't seem to get a mark. He was pretty good toward the end of last season.

I am glad we are not just hitting up Buddy or Tip anyway. Towers, Papley, Lukie & Hewett all looked pretty good taking marks in the forward 50. I'm impressed with young George, he just makes such good position. Pretty exciting really.

Lloydy was really great tonight. He had, at times, one of the hardest jobs in footy to make sure the best Carlton mids didn't get too much room. When we changed him and Harry I noticed two opponents had plenty more.

Harry has been a bit disappointing in the preseason.

Bud is going to be sensational this year. The thing is are the other experienced players going to be as good?

Parks was sensational after a quiet first quarter.

Reg has taken the responsibility of the leadership group and has made it his own. Very good Reg.

All in all we didn't bomb so much but were very loose in the zone set up. Sorry but I hate the zone set up it is old and is easily beaten. Hawks killed us because we insisted on using it. With so many ex-Hawk coaches coaching teams these days I think we might just lose that. Man on man would be better. We don't have the team for zones. Our man on man ability is so much better.

I think the only thing actually missing is the coaches taking it to the next level. The players are ready but I don't know if our coaches are. They don't seem to have any really new ideas. They have at least dropped the idea of all handball, especially backward, and bombing away but still too much ball being taken out of the midfield by opposition teams. They won the clearances tonight. We need to win those two to one against sides like Carlton. We don't change our rotations enough and we use the on side too much. Not enough manning up our opposition at centre bounces. We tend to give them the defensive side. I have been saying this for years and it is the same now. In fact I'd say that in the NAB Challenge we have used the preseason 2015 stoppage set ups. I wonder if that is a ploy.

Ludwig

11th March 2016, 09:11 PM

Hewett showed that he's a lot more than just a good kick, which of course he is. He plays a physical game and tackles well. I liked the way he held his position against a bigger and tough customer in Zach Touhey, which eventually led to a goal.

wolftone57

11th March 2016, 09:29 PM

A decent win and some good signs there

Some random points
* Buddy looks fit and healthy and ready to go
* Upgrade Papley now, what gem in the rookie draft emerging already, he looks very aggressive and composed and knows how to find the footy, there is our small forward for mine and I reckon he could be a bolter for Round 1
* Hewett should be an automatic selection this year, he looks composed and very much an AFL senior footballer
* Heeney has been very impressive all pre-season for mine and looks set to fire
* Likewise Mills looks very impressive and will be right to go round 1
* Rose really impressed me tonight, I haven't bought into his hype but he showed a bit tonight to suggest he'll play a good 12-15 games this year

Now, the negatives
* I just do not rate Zak Jones, poor disposal and he seems slow
* Likewise Nankervis offers us very little
* Cannot believe the commentators gave Newman a wrap, I though he was appalling, terrible disposal and nowhere near AFL standard
* Not sure about Talia, I'd much prefer him on the edges of the squad than looking like he will be in the 22

Do you actually watch the games? Newman did three terrible disposals out of plenty. Mind you we weren't giving him much to kick to and at times his disposal was absolutely wonderful. He found targets where you would think @@@@ me where did he see that?

I thought Jones sensational until he went off injured. he kicked one clanger but the rest of his play was pretty good.

I notice you don't say anything about Rampe who managed to kick three our on full.

You didn't mention Smithy who gave away two goals and looked slow and disinterested at times.

You got Hewett and Papley right but I thought Rose was a bit player. In and out of the game not consistent.

I thought Talia actually beat Casboult when he was on him.

crackedactor

11th March 2016, 09:53 PM

I am the same as you wolftone, exact same summary. I thought Newman was a fair player but what I Saw tonight was very ordinary. Maybe the worst kick in the AFL? Nankervis is just a waste of money and resources, I am also worried about Kennedy, does not look 100%, In 2012 GF he kicked a goal from outside 50, now it couldn't do it from outside 30? Hewett showed a bit and so did Papley. One day Heeney and mills will get 3 and 2 votes for BOG. Jury is still out on Talia.

MattW

11th March 2016, 09:58 PM

Joey is the reigning Bob Skilton Medalist, he requires faith which extends beyond a few pre-season games.

111431

11th March 2016, 10:05 PM

JPK, Parker and kizza going no more than 1/2 pace - Hewett booked his spot for round 1

troyjones2525

11th March 2016, 10:10 PM

I don't understand all this negative talk re: Talia like the jury is still out etc. Can someone tell me when he was beaten in a contest or kicked it out on the full or straight to the opposition from a kick in this week? Yes he didn't dominate the game but he certainly wasn't poor and showed me he is quite capable of holding down a key defensive post for not only this year but certainly in the future!

Velour&Ruffles

11th March 2016, 10:58 PM

You didn't mention Smithy who gave away two goals and looked slow and disinterested at times.

I don't care about the All Australian (which is essentially a retrospective, much like the Oscars), Smith's disposal is noticeably worse than it was a couple of years ago. He used to be super reliable. He remains so, but sadly now because his disposal is amongst the least trustworthy in the team - he can basically be depended on to butcher it. I hope this changes in 2016, but if it doesn't then we should clear him while he still has currency. The commentators are usually about two years behind where players are actually at - three years for non-Victorian players. We should make use of this window if necessary.

R-1

11th March 2016, 11:05 PM

I think Talia is an understudy for Grundy and Richards plain and simple. He's a pure negating defender and isn't there to generate offensive play. We cannot run all three but it's handy to have the backup. How stuffed would we be without Richards otherwise.

dimelb

11th March 2016, 11:24 PM

A frustrating game to watch: seconds of brilliance among minutes of fumbling and inaccuracy. I felt we were playing within our capacity most of the night.
Good to see the youngsters and most of them showed potential.
We were outplayed in the ruck again but I think they (meaning Tippett and Sinclair) will be OK. Carlton kept up the pressure and forced many "Hail Mary" kicks. We need to be better at hitting targets out of the ruck, I suspect by being a little more patient. The one we missed most in that respect was McVeigh.

wolftone57

11th March 2016, 11:47 PM

liz

11th March 2016, 11:56 PM

Do you actually watch the games? Newman did three terrible disposals out of plenty. Mind you we weren't giving him much to kick to and at times his disposal was absolutely wonderful. He found targets where you would think @@@@ me where did he see that?

I thought Jones sensational until he went off injured. he kicked one clanger but the rest of his play was pretty good.

I notice you don't say anything about Rampe who managed to kick three our on full.

You didn't mention Smithy who gave away two goals and looked slow and disinterested at times.

You got Hewett and Papley right but I thought Rose was a bit player. In and out of the game not consistent.

I thought Talia actually beat Casboult when he was on him.

I think it is pretty clear that Mug Punter watched the game. Just because his opinions differ from yours is no reason to denigrate his in this manner.

I am not surprised that opinions on many of the newer players diverge. They each did things that suggest they have AFL traits, but for each of them their inexperienced also showed through at times. With most of the senior players (Hanners being the honourable exception) going at half pace, the younger players were made to earn their possessions and got some idea of the pressure at senior level. We are going to have a pretty young and inexperienced team for parts of the season, especially while the likes of McVeigh and Reid are missing, so we better get used to the frustrations of basic errors and learn to be patient while we watch these kids grow.

Of the young brigade, Hewett was the one who impressed me the most. I think he showed he is clearly ahead of Robinson - he showed good composure, and while none of his skills look overly fluent or silky, he seems to be able to get the job done. A round 1 debut certainly doesn't look out of the question.

Ludwig

12th March 2016, 12:36 AM

I am not surprised that opinions on many of the newer players diverge. They each did things that suggest they have AFL traits, but for each of them their inexperienced also showed through at times. With most of the senior players (Hanners being the honourable exception) going at half pace, the younger players were made to earn their possessions and got some idea of the pressure at senior level. We are going to have a pretty young and inexperienced team for parts of the season, especially while the likes of McVeigh and Reid are missing, so we better get used to the frustrations of basic errors and learn to be patient while we watch these kids grow.

Of the young brigade, Hewett was the one who impressed me the most. I think he showed he is clearly ahead of Robinson - he showed good composure, and while none of his skills look overly fluent or silky, he seems to be able to get the job done. A round 1 debut certainly doesn't look out of the question.
I'm glad you made the point about our inexperience and what our expectations should be. Seeing Longmire's postgame PC, I got the feeling the same was going through his mind. It would seem that our round 1 team will come from today's players minus Nankervis and one other, probably either Newman or Rose. We will open our campaign this year as one of least experienced sides. We will have only 11 players in that side with 50 games experience. By comparison, GWS are likely to go into round 1 with 18 players having played 50 games or more.

As for Hewett, I was very impressed with how well he weights the ball with his kicks. And he hasn't gotten the chance to show that he can do it just as well on his left foot. Heeney, Mills, Jones and Hewett are going to be the Fab 4 midfield of the 2020s.

swans

12th March 2016, 01:03 AM

I feel the player they need to bring on is abe up forward/back and dawson the two main issues we have is long kicking out of defence to a player to open up the game up and the third forward option up forward , it appears only dawson or bud have that kicking over 50 to open up the game.
Papley needs to be upgraded for round 1 .
Talia will be ok over time he has the sames issues as a number of swans backman he tends to punch the ball as his first option and not mark it first , they learn it in junior footy it doesn't work in first's, ted was like that when he started it takes time and confidence to go for the mark first , remember we pick up a key defender for nothing. Talia just need more games to learn of Ted who marks the ball first, talia is a 194 key back that can handle the key big forwards and is still learning the game , he needs time to learn the game plan and confidends to mark it first his is still a young kpp,
The swans fumbling and inaccuracy is still a big issue . I fell mills should play forward/ mid this year not back , as he is too young to play back, and his kicking skill is needed forwarded and his run is need in the middle as he displayed tonight. parker/ mill will be good option to rotate forward .

Good to see the youngsters and most of them showed potential over the three pre session games we may have found some gems
We were outplayed in the ruck and the mid again (meaning Tippett and Sinclair) will be Ok , we need running mid in their Mills in the center as he is a run and Hewett need to play centre this year.

Hewett has passed cunningham in the best 22 and gives us more options We need hewett and mill both in the centre rotation as we looked slow after half time and can both rest forward and back.

Toby need to ring mummy and talk about getting mad in games mashing small mids and protecting your player. He,s a big man play like it , don,t hold back Mate, see the footy and go for it , smash up the packs , run though the players , get mad , when they kick out to you, think i getting this foody no one else is. talk to brett kirk about what is means to never say die, just give a 100% at going for the ball . watch the mummy video just start pushing the players around and start playing like a big man go for the marks and footy, see player going for the mark or ball run though them, make yourself a big present on the field we need you to be.

Overall a good pre session in trying out a number of player on the list abe is the player we should have got more game time into that big utility type that we just miss on the ground that last few years that can play forward and back.

Auntie.Gerald

12th March 2016, 05:44 AM

ok so GWS showed how they are going to go with numbers in the backline and rebound hard numbers pushing forward

Carlton showed they will chip, change angles, catch and then flood ahead near halfway hoping that the next kick will find the mark and they will out number the opposition

we showed no secrets in round 2 against GWS i.e. we just focussed on out hunting GWS which we did not do and we just bombed it forward

tonight we showed a little more re out exits and entries but really it looked similar to the last half of last year...........so hopefully we are all pleasantly surprised in rd 1 as the Pies have no idea what our game plan will look like

I am worried about our exits though.........we appear to be weakest in this area.......strategically but technically a real concern

our hunt for the footy is no where near the level required to be a winning team as yet............we were fairly ordinary against a team such as Carlton !!!

positives:

Hewett has brought his vision, skill and added some gut running and i love what i see............was given a fair bit of space though.............will contest for best 22

Dawson may get game time in 2016

Papley and McGlynn may struggle to be in the same team but Papley is a very welcome addition to the squad and has a longer kick then i expected

Mills solid but shows early signs of being ready for 2016 snrs

Sinclair thank god we picked him up

Talia will be fine and be a great depth signing for 2016..............he is no worse then reg or Ted when they started in the backline

mcs

12th March 2016, 07:38 AM

I was travelling so missed the game - but im glad to hear Hewett played well. He looks so much more an afl standard player than a number of our other fringe guys. He would be in my 22 for round 1.

More promising signs from Papley too - sounds like he is a real bolt from the blue and perhaps another wonderful draft steal in time.

Doctor

12th March 2016, 09:55 AM

He hasn't rated much of a mention, but Jake Lloyd has been very handy this pre-season. Good to see him playing well again.

Foreign Legion

12th March 2016, 11:07 AM

He hasn't rated much of a mention, but Jake Lloyd has been very handy this pre-season. Good to see him playing well again.

I thought Lloyd had been pretty ordinary up until last night but he certainly stepped it up. He was noticeably more intense and I would not be surprised if Longmire had sat him down during the week.

Agree with everything people say about Hewett - if I had to describe him in one word I would say poised.

Nico

12th March 2016, 12:22 PM

A few observations from last night.

Nick Newman - He looks like he could be ok but boy his dumb chip kicks to players covered were stark. And please don't let him kick out unless he is told to kick long.
Marking - Please don't drop the chest marks in the serious stuff.
Rose - he looks a real chance. Looks much harder than Cunningham.
Cunningham - I don't fancy players who take short steps when the ball is in dispute.
Hewett - Clearly better then Towers. Gets just as many possessions, is far cleaner when getting possession, looks where he is kicking, kicks for goal accurately, finds space easily, follows up his possessions and holds marks. Towers fumbles, has a look over his shoulder, drops marks and doesn't get to many contests. May have the odd cameo quarter but generally goes missing. Hewett is a much harder and tougher footballer.
LLoyd - got better as the game proceeded but for a bloke who gets a lot of the footy his finishing is not good enough. Very dumb playing on when Papley had a free at 20 metres and missed. As Dunstall said; "if your are going run off you better kick those goal".
General field kicking/disposal selection - how many times did we chip to a player in a congested midfield. Also kicking to a small player on a 2 on one contest. Look for someone free for goodness sake when have aweek to do something with the footy.
Talia - not sure. Looks slow and fumbles too much.
Grundy is a very good player.
Smith - what has happened to his kicking, even when under no pressure. Poor player selection.
Papley - ready made and runs all day.
Sinclair - great pick up with butter fingers. Has got to clunk them.
Mills and Heeney are fine footballers.
Finally - Hewett starts up forward in preference to Towers and Papley gets upgraded.

Mountain Man

12th March 2016, 12:26 PM

Was it 3 times that Rampe kicked out on the full?

They were not pressure kicks either - just a long kick up the line but (presumably) with a lack of concentration.

Nico

12th March 2016, 12:30 PM

Was it 3 times that Rampe kicked out on the full?

They were not pressure kicks either - just a long kick up the line but (presumably) with a lack of concentration.

Correct, but why do players stand on the boundary (Mitchell) and expect to mark it.

Levii3

12th March 2016, 01:12 PM

People seems really keen to dismiss Cunningham and Lloyd for some reason, Lloyd had a good game yesterday and was average last week and had 31 touches against Port?? Why would you take Cunningham and Towers out of the team for Hewett? Hewett is a midfielder and Cunningham is a Forward/Mid who can tags players like Stephen Hill Boomer and wins Towers is a forward and our best player in the finals last year who is just reaching his potential now. You know who else took short steps when ball was in dispute Jetts...

Melbourne_Blood

12th March 2016, 03:26 PM

Well I am in an absolute minority with my view of Newman:)

All I will say is that he seems totally one-sided and if his disposal is like that in a regular season game he will get crucified in here. Hope I'm completely wrong though, you'd have to say him and Papley are looking good to get upgraded but I'd think Papley is way ahead in terms of getting a run, he looks really good and I agree that Benny McGlynn should be worries

I watched most of the game, though with a limited attention span at times, and I would agree with you on what I saw of Newman. Got caught out at least 2 times with indecision, made some horrible blunders by foot, created pressure on himself, didn't like what I saw from him. ( first time I've seen him though, not writing him off, but the papers having him in the best perplexed me) Can say positive things about nearly everyone else, whether consistently through the game or just in glimpses. Hewett is strong, Papley hard, Mills what a beautiful kick, Heeneys vision, buddy's unselfish play. Lots of positives.

Melbourne_Blood

12th March 2016, 03:28 PM

AnsweredPrayers

12th March 2016, 03:45 PM

What has happened to Smith? I thought his form started to trail off towards the end of last year. He has been terrible. If he doesnt turn it around he will be in the reserves by the end of the year. Hope I'm wrong.

Watched Newman expecting to see this beautiful left foot. Like a few others here I though his disposal was rubbish. Strange so few actually seemed to notice.

Lloyd was really good last night. Can't understand why he gets so much sustained criticism.

Lots of orher positives last night. Hopefully, they can build on that. Great drafting last year. We seem to have found 2 or 3 really good prospects.

stevoswan

12th March 2016, 08:32 PM

707

12th March 2016, 09:37 PM

Went to Melb for the game and watched from the first deck on centre wing, perfect spot, and free entry - nice :-) My two bobs worth -

Sinclair looks a good pick up but gee he fumbles marks
Hewett has skills and a football brain, a certain starter IMO
Talia, not sure why he's getting negative opinions on here, did the job he had to, looks composed and has some pace, he's a KPD not a mid
Papley looks a likely type that we have been missing, doubt he's ready but will debut this year
Rose is lively but still a little way off
Lloyd, another I fail to understand the negatives, is a role player not a game changer who works hard and does the job, tick for me
Cunningham I'm unconvinced of but will be retained for his pace, needs to find more ball
JPK, just ticking over
Hanners made a couple of bad errors but then miraculously retrieved the situation. Want to watch them on the replay. BOG
Newman looks to be a likely type, generally better delivery than the rest of the team a couple of clangers excepted
Rampe OOF x 3 - WTF, get a haircut lad!

Not all doom but gee we need a good run with injuries this year.

Mug Punter

12th March 2016, 09:46 PM

For mine this NAB Challenge has been a success for one reason - TOM PAPLEY!!

We've had a bloke from the rookie list come in, take his chance and look every bit a senior footballer.

Plus we've seen Mills come in and look very much the finished product and Heeney looking great and Buddy fit and happy.

I'm assuming Ted will be OK but Reid and Jarad won't , so this my starting 22 against the scum

Smith Ted Laidler
Mills Reg Rampe
Heeney Mitchell Jack
Towers Buddy Parker
Papley Tippett Harry

Sinclair JPK Hanners

Hewett Rose Jones Talia

In reserve
Reid (inj) McVeigh (inj) Rohan (inj) BJ Robbo McGlynn

A decent side but I look at that and I still reckon we are a couple short on depth, it's why we need a Davis or Dawson to step up throughout the year

liz

12th March 2016, 10:24 PM

No Lloyd?

Mug Punter

12th March 2016, 10:30 PM

No Lloyd?

Knew I forgot someone....

I rate Lloyd so he'd be in there somewhere, maybe instead of Rose on the bench

So, by that analysis we have 29 players we are kind of comfortable having play seniors, that's not too bad.....

707

13th March 2016, 07:39 AM

........So, by that analysis we have 29 players we are kind of comfortable having play seniors, that's not too bad.....
Reckon 29 is a stretch as it contains a fair number of yet to debut and unproven at AFL level to tried but found wanting at AFL level. I'm bullish about Hewett but he is yet to be proven at the level and the rest are behind him.

It's all about how potent we are once a number of the above types are in the side, particularly given how a number of sides around us have improved over summer and we haven't.

Prepare for a ladder slide if injuries continue at the current rate.

aardvark

13th March 2016, 10:32 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if Rose gets picked ahead of Papley, he's been in the system longer and doesn't need an upgrade. I rate both of them and would be happy to see either get picked.

wolftone57

13th March 2016, 11:32 AM

On reflection the coaches tried a few different strategies. The mids strategies were an abject failure. The second quarter strategy of moving the ball quickly and cutting off their attack worked very well and forced them into errors. That left Bud in Pagan's Paddock several times with a couple of smalls. Lovely to see smalls playing under our big blokes. Papley is going to be invaluable in that game plan.

In the third they tried something different, we probably will never know what it actually entailed or what the outcomes were to be other than goals of course because it was an abject failure. That happens. I thought we tried some hit up footy and played it really well in the last half of the last quarter. Our players can deliver it is just that with a @@@@ty game plan they lose enthusiasm and concentration. We still put far too much pressure on our defenders. We need to win far more clearances, especially centre clearances. But I still think the most pleasing thing was we didn't just bomb and we rarely handballed back for long periods like usual. We were getting the ball forward on most accasions and that bodes well. We also played some really exciting footy at times and when the players get used to the new set ups I thuink we will be ok.

It always helps to have a few people who know different styles. Francou is in that vein and Kirky has always been a quirky individual and would pull stuff out of the aether. Very left field. Makes it more interesting. I'm glad Horse has decided to change. It was looking as though our game plan would have been the same as the last two to three years.

- - - Updated - - -

I wouldn't be surprised if Rose gets picked ahead of Papley, he's been in the system longer and doesn't need an upgrade. I rate both of them and would be happy to see either get picked.

Rose is a far different player to Papley. Papley is your real small forward, crumbs, in packs getting ball out, kicks crumbing goals. Rose is a lead up forward who can crumb but isn't much for in and under. He is a very good mark. Quite different types.

wolftone57

13th March 2016, 11:47 AM

I personally believe our list has great potential, even for this season, but I must say, after what I've read here today, and considering post 2015 season hopes for a change in game plan, it is very disappointing to hear that it doesn't seem to have changed at all! That could go for skills and decision making as well. Sigh.......is the dreaded slide down the ladder a possibility, unless things markedly improve?

I think they tried new things in this game. The second quarter we were running a Pagan's Paddock style set up. Bud was set up several times. We also took advantage of having a strong small forward in Papley and used him on several occasions in transition. Passing instead of bombing. Hewett and Parks both took advantage of good passing by making great leads. This was a set up we haven't seen before. Hewett changes the dynamic quite a bit. His beautiful delivery and ability to make space make him another dangerous option forward.

We tried things against Carlton. some worked, some didn't (third quarter and part of last). Our new midfield set ups didn't quite work but they will tweak them like last year and we will hold our own. So in the first two games it seemed a bit of same old same old but in the Carlton game we played far differently. We need to win far more clearances to take the pressure off the defence though.