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Craig
9th March 2003, 01:00 PM
Ok I know it's been done heaps, but I thought that now we have had a few practice games under our belts, I will post the best team line up (IMO).

Nicks Hall Doyal
O'Louchlin Stevens Davis
O'Keefe Cresswell Maxfield
Crouch Saddington C Bolton
Barry Schauble Fixter

Ball Williams Goodes

Int: Kirk Kennelly Schneider J Bolton

I couldn't find a spot for Mathews, Seymour, Warfe or Fosdike as I don't think they will add much to the team.

liz
9th March 2003, 05:13 PM
Everyone will have their own view of course, but I could definitely find a place for Fossie in that team. I'm expecting (hoping!) that he will become a top class midfielder / wingman for us this year. I'd have him in that team ahead of O'Keefe, J Bolton, Kennelly, Kirk, Fixter or Schneider, even though I think all those players will also be important for us this year as well.

Similarly, though he does do some stupid things at times, I would find a place for Mathews and I think the Swans coaching staff would as well. He finished around 6th or 7th in last years B&F, after a 3rd place finish the previous year.

Dpw
9th March 2003, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by lizz
Everyone will have their own view of course, but I could definitely find a place for Fossie in that team. I'm expecting (hoping!) that he will become a top class midfielder / wingman for us this year. I'd have him in that team ahead of O'Keefe, J Bolton, Kennelly, Kirk, Fixter or Schneider, even though I think all those players will also be important for us this year as well.

Similarly, though he does do some stupid things at times, I would find a place for Mathews and I think the Swans coaching staff would as well. He finished around 6th or 7th in last years B&F, after a 3rd place finish the previous year.

I think mathews needs to improve his skills dramatically, he leads our clangers column every week.

I put others ahead of him. (definite trade bait, if anyone would be interested)

Craig
9th March 2003, 06:31 PM
You are 100% correct about Mathews. Every time that he goes near the ball he stuffs up. In my book he is not the type of player to have in our team. He's been at the club quite a while now and has never looked like doing anything.

Plenty of players are prone to making mistakes but at least they show a bit of flair and make the mistake trying to do something. Mathews makes his mistakes mucking around with the footy.

NMWBloods
9th March 2003, 06:36 PM
I would put Fosdike in ahead of J Bolton.

I'm not a big fan of Matthews, so I would be happy leaving him out.

Probably stating the obvious, but our back line looks pretty small and there is not a lot of backup there if you leave out Seymour and Warfe.

Half our team seems to consist of mid-sized, mid-height, mid-speed, semi midfielders or flankers.

thommoone
9th March 2003, 08:40 PM
Agree with everything NMW Bloods said!

penga
9th March 2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by Craig
Ok I know it's been done heaps, but I thought that now we have had a few practice games under our belts, I will post the best team line up (IMO).

Nicks Hall Doyal
O'Louchlin Stevens Davis
O'Keefe Cresswell Maxfield
Crouch Saddington C Bolton
Barry Schauble Fixter

Ball Williams Goodes

Int: Kirk Kennelly Schneider J Bolton

I couldn't find a spot for Mathews, Seymour, Warfe or Fosdike as I don't think they will add much to the team.

fosdike averaged 20.6 possesions in the last 10 rounds of last season, i think that is something he can add to the team!

TheHood
10th March 2003, 08:15 AM
What really pleases me about our list this year is that we are not harbouring any major liabilities as we have in previous years.

No Luffys
No O'Connors
No Bomfords
No Motts
No Swatta (his last 2 years had been average)

Don't get me wrong, Luffy was a great clubman and could take a mark of so but then when he turned to kick always managed to line up an opposition player.

So the good news is that I feel we're getting the depth set up for coming years and don't have to entertain substandard players.

TOUCH WOOD, by round one, we will have 3 top class specialist ruckmen that are all noted goal kickers. Is there another side in the comp that can boast that? Only Collingwood come close with Fraser & Rocca (McKee is not a forward) and Hawks with Thompson and Everitt.

Craig
10th March 2003, 08:25 AM
I know Fosdike finally got a bit of the ball late last season, but to my mind his build is too small, his kicking can be erractic and he is a poor overhead mark. He had the chance to win that Geelong game last year and missed the goal.

I think the Swans are too complaicent with these types of players. We need players to turn into stars. No one can seriously suggest that Fosdike is ever going to be in the same league as Buckley, Crawford, Kelly etc etc. I do however think that Bolton could become this. Yes we all know his faults but he has all the attributes of a champion, the build, the hunger for the footy....

Mike_B
10th March 2003, 09:31 AM
IMHO a player like Fosdike will never be noted for his build or overhead marking, simply by nature of the fact he is a wingman. Erratic disposal is something you can be critical of no matter where a player plays however.

In terms of hunger for the football, that too can be an issue, but Fossie will rarely be used as an in and under type of player who really needs to go hard at the ball as you mentioned Bolton does.

TheHood
10th March 2003, 09:33 AM
He had the chance to win that Geelong game last year and missed the goal.

I think you mean to say that Fossy had the chance to retrieve what we blew which was the lead in the dying seconds. We mucked that game right up in the last quarter and Fossy wasn't the only culprit.

We're not looking for another Buckley or Crawford. Fossy could turn out to be a great player within his own limitations. James Hird doesn't have the longest kick, isnt the fastest runner and nor does he have the biggest body, but he is fit, plays tall and takes a superb mark, always dangerous.

Fossy played really well under Roosy last year and I only expect him to continue that form this year, why shouldn't we?

chammond
10th March 2003, 09:35 AM
No one can seriously suggest that Fosdike is ever going to be in the same league as Buckley, Crawford, Kelly etc etc. I do however think that Bolton could become this. Yes we all know his faults but he has all the attributes of a champion, the build, the hunger for the footy....

I don't usually have any interest in this kind of fantasy footy thread, but this one is just getting silly.

Are you really seriously suggesting that the Swans shouldn't have any players in their squad who aren't potentially as good as Buckley, Crawford or Kelly? We've only got one player as good as Kelly, and he's a runner.

And do you honestly think that all it takes to be a champion is a strong body and hunger for the footy? In that case, there are paddocks full of champions running around South Gippsland every winter.

I'm no particular fan of either Bolton or Fosdike (I think they are both just average, but they are definitely in the Swans' best 22), but suggesting they should be in or out on such an arbitrary basis is laughable.

penga
10th March 2003, 11:55 AM
willo also had the opportunity of winning the game against geelong and muffed it, should we count him out now as well???

penga
10th March 2003, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by TheHood
What really pleases me about our list this year is that we are not harbouring any major liabilities as we have in previous years.

No Luffys
No O'Connors
No Bomfords
No Motts
No Swatta (his last 2 years had been average)

Don't get me wrong, Luffy was a great clubman and could take a mark of so but then when he turned to kick always managed to line up an opposition player.

you forgot lewis, carey, j stevens, feast... i was a fan of lewy's but he had the erratic boot... i was thinking the same thing the other day, sure we have some liability players now but no where near the standard as the players previously mentioned

NMWBloods
10th March 2003, 12:11 PM
I always thought J Stevens was quite good, although a bit erratic at times. I remember he gave our midfield a bit of pace and run, and shut down some dangerous opposition (I recall him completely outpointing Matera one day until he was injured).

Craig
10th March 2003, 12:32 PM
I knew everyone would go on about the Geelong game, it was only an example. Plenty of players have won games for us, I'm yet to see it with Fosdike.

All I was trying to say is that we are never going to win premerships with players like him. You talk about wingmen not having to take overhead marks, not kicking long. Look at Peter Matera and Schwass for example, both were neither superstars but they sure could play footy. Fosdike can't kick, can't mark, doesn't have the build (all admitted by people on this board), isn't very strong, doesn't get in and under so what can he do??? At least he's good at running...

penga
10th March 2003, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Craig
Ok I know it's been done heaps, but I thought that now we have had a few practice games under our belts, I will post the best team line up (IMO).

Nicks Hall Doyal
O'Louchlin Stevens Davis
O'Keefe Cresswell Maxfield
Crouch Saddington C Bolton
Barry Schauble Fixter

Ball Williams Goodes

Int: Kirk Kennelly Schneider J Bolton

I couldn't find a spot for Mathews, Seymour, Warfe or Fosdike as I don't think they will add much to the team.

i would prefer to have o'keefe at RFP and davis at LFP as they could lead into the pockets and hall straight up the ground. o'keefe and davis would then be both be on their preferred pocket to kick for goal... i would like to see ball and doyle rotated through chf and put stevens at half forward flank. stevens has been a smokey imo as i would never had put him in our best 22 at the end of last season but he has shown some real good form through the preseason that i couldnt leave him out now. id also really like to see a third man up tactic used more frequently ie ball or doyle could nullify the opposition ruckman and then have goodes come flying over the top and have him hit it to a player ahead of the pack... id also like to see maxfield in the middle rather than on the wing, as a captain he needs to be in the thick of it more than wing, he also is the player who can play there, his captaincy is not the only reason to put him in the middle. id prob put cressa on the bench push maxfield to the middle and kennelly to the wing with fosdike on the other wing, he has showed some real good signs imo of breaking the game open. so id leave schneider out of the team, we dont really have that more on option as far as our backline goes, unless we were to use stevens in the backline and use nicks at half forward flank, so my team looks like this:

davis hall okeefe
o'loughlin doyle nicks
fosdike goodes kennelly
c. bolton stevens crouch
fixter schauble saddington

ball williams maxfield

cresswell kirk barry j. bolton

id like to see powell replace barry as well

i think nicksy really needs to step up to the plate or he will be used as trade bait... ie id like to see LRT to eventually come into chb and push stevens to HFF. thewlis to replace kirk. we do have a bit more depth than thought, we recruited well last year, im not sure on mcveigh yet but i like thewlis, macleski and dempster. there is schneider as well... where are we going to get our FB from? pressure increases for all the senior players now!

penga
10th March 2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Craig
I knew everyone would go on about the Geelong game, it was only an example. Plenty of players have won games for us, I'm yet to see it with Fosdike.

All I was trying to say is that we are never going to win premerships with players like him. You talk about wingmen not having to take overhead marks, not kicking long. Look at Peter Matera and Schwass for example, both were neither superstars but they sure could play footy. Fosdike can't kick, can't mark, doesn't have the build (all admitted by people on this board), isn't very strong, doesn't get in and under so what can he do??? At least he's good at running...

i think he can kick, he will create some great run from hb, thats what he is good at... i obviously rae him a lot higher than u...

Craig
10th March 2003, 01:03 PM
I agree with you about Nicks & LRT. I hope that both have big seasons.

Cresswell on the bench is a big call. He just gets so much of the ball that he's hard to leave out.

Our backline is short and that's going to be a bit of an issue. Scott Stevens at CHB could work or maybe Goodes. That's exactly where we need LRT to come along and the problem would be solved.

penga
10th March 2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by Craig
I agree with you about Nicks & LRT. I hope that both have big seasons.

Cresswell on the bench is a big call. He just gets so much of the ball that he's hard to leave out.

Our backline is short and that's going to be a bit of an issue. Scott Stevens at CHB could work or maybe Goodes. That's exactly where we need LRT to come along and the problem would be solved.

i realise its a big call, but his legs are aging and i think he wouldnt suit being on the wing, maybe have goodes on the wing, cresswell in the centre and fosdike on the bench? i realise youll agree with the bench call

Mike_B
10th March 2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by penga
i would prefer to have o'keefe at RFP and davis at LFP as they could lead into the pockets and hall straight up the ground.<P> id also really like to see a third man up tactic used more frequently ie ball or doyle could nullify the opposition ruckman and then have goodes come flying over the top and have him hit it to a player ahead of the pack

Our crumbing of packs (or lack thereof), along with our skills that go MIA rather often are the two things that have frustrated me more than any other aspect of our play over the past few years.

IMHO its more important than having a 3rd man in for an aerial contest up forward is having at least one player in the forward pocket who will play front-and-square and crumb those balls that end up being spoiled/dropped in the marking contest. For me, if Davis and/or ROK can and more importantly will play that role, then I'm happy to see them in the forward pocket - both can take a mark and are decent kicks for goal. But if they won't crumb, put someone in there who will.

penga
10th March 2003, 01:15 PM
we also have (potentially) james to come in at FB and then where will schauble go, back to chb then where with LRT, BP? saddington to hbf and c. bolton to wing? i do like the idea of this though ie having to decide who will cut the mustard...

penga
10th March 2003, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Mike_B
Our crumbing of packs (or lack thereof), along with our skills that go MIA rather often are the two things that have frustrated me more than any other aspect of our play over the past few years.

IMHO its more important than having a 3rd man in for an aerial contest up forward is having at least one player in the forward pocket who will play front-and-square and crumb those balls that end up being spoiled/dropped in the marking contest. For me, if Davis and/or ROK can and more importantly will play that role, then I'm happy to see them in the forward pocket - both can take a mark and are decent kicks for goal. But if they won't crumb, put someone in there who will.

thats y i put ND and ROK down there instead of doyle, if not these two then who? i do see what u mean though...

Craig
10th March 2003, 01:45 PM
Someone like Buchanan could potentially be a good crumbing forward pocket. Though I think he needs a good year in the seconds first. O'Keeff would be ok in the FP but I think that his running and lovely kicking would work better up the ground.

penga
10th March 2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Craig
Someone like Buchanan could potentially be a good crumbing forward pocket. Though I think he needs a good year in the seconds first. O'Keeff would be ok in the FP but I think that his running and lovely kicking would work better up the ground.

imo buchanan will never make it, i think thewlis could be good at fp if the kick form the boundary line at the NSO game is anything to go by. but i like ROK as a forward, he showed some real good things against the roos

NMWBloods
10th March 2003, 02:38 PM
Fosdike can't kick, can't mark, doesn't have the build (all admitted by people on this board), isn't very strong, doesn't get in and under so what can he do??? At least he's good at running...

I think Fosdike's basic skills are far better than most players on our team. His ability to use both sides of his body and deliver well can be excellent at times. His problems tends to be he loses focus or concentration, and delivers it poorly. At least that can be corrected with a bit more steadiness, which I believe will come as he develops and gains more confidence.

NMWBloods
10th March 2003, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Mike_B
Our crumbing of packs (or lack thereof), along with our skills that go MIA rather often are the two things that have frustrated me more than any other aspect of our play over the past few years.

IMHO its more important than having a 3rd man in for an aerial contest up forward is having at least one player in the forward pocket who will play front-and-square and crumb those balls that end up being spoiled/dropped in the marking contest. For me, if Davis and/or ROK can and more importantly will play that role, then I'm happy to see them in the forward pocket - both can take a mark and are decent kicks for goal. But if they won't crumb, put someone in there who will.

LOL - three men up, none down is a trademark of the Swans, whether Sydney or South Melbourne variety! :eek:

I agree that our crumbing has generally been poor. Part of it is half the time no one seems to have the nouse to wait under the pack. Part of it is also that many of our players don't seems to read the ball well and don't know quite where to go to crumb the ball well.

Nico
10th March 2003, 08:47 PM
I wonder sometimes whether some people on this site have any football knowledge or insight into some of the subtleties of the game.

In particular the arguement on the relative abilities of Nick Fosdike.

Under the previous coach both Fosdike and Bolton got very lttle game time - regularly on and off the bench. Does anyone have the stats on these players in the past 3 years as to game time, and whether either of them actually played a full game or at least 3 quarters. As, I for one reckon that they played one or 2 and then back to the 2's.

Hence little chance to develop at the top level.

Enter Paul Roos who gives these players a lot more game time, and Bingo, they give the side something. Eg Fosdike 20.5 possessions per game.

Under Roos, Fosdike's disposal skills improved and he learned how to make space. Clearly he is not an in and under player and Roos recognises this. He also knew that Fozzie reads the play very well and has excellent anticipation. So if you look at replays you will see he is very often by himself making position between HB and HF. By doing this it gives Barry Hall plenty of time to make his lead.

I think Fosdike is very underrated, is a pill magnet and will prove a very valuable player in the halcyon days to come. I would expect, on Cressa's departure, that he will rack up the number of stats Cressa now gets, which means he can never be left out of the side.

By the way, I too thought that he was just making up the numbers until midway through last season.

NMWBloods
10th March 2003, 09:34 PM
By the way, I too thought that he was just making up the numbers until midway through last season.

You didn't recognise his ability until then? ;)

Actually, I've always quite liked the way Fosdike looked on the field, as I think he has good skills and I'm a bit of a fan of players with appreciable skills, but find it very frustrating when they don't use them effectively. I think he's always looked like one of the more skilfull players in our team - like players on other teams!!

I think he could become a Barry Mitchell type of player perhaps.

penga
10th March 2003, 10:42 PM
yeah, ive always enjoyed watching fossie play...

i think he will become the player that we will go "we gave up paul licuria for him? woah, collingwood got screwed with that one!"

TheHood
11th March 2003, 08:03 AM
Well said Nico! Have seen Fossy several times just hanging out at the wing all alone and when the bounce off half back occurs he is always in great position.

penga
11th March 2003, 07:08 PM
presuming that these players get back for round 1:
c. bolton
cresswell
fixter
hall
seymour

with these still injured:
o'loughlin
doyle

this would be my ammended best 22:

davis hall okeefe
nicks stevens kennelly
kirk goodes fosdike
c. bolton saddington crouch
barry schauble fixter
ball maxfield cresswell
int: seymour warfe schneider j. bolton

with saddington on fevola and schauble on whitnall, we shouldnt be too hard done in the backline, bolton on lappin, barry on hickmott, fixter on houlihan, crouch on the last forward i could imagine it to be hulme... id really like to see goodes vs kouta!

Reggi
11th March 2003, 08:28 PM
Apparently Koutafides is stuffed.

I imagine Ball will play, it will be interesting to see if they believe N Davis is fit enough come rnd one.

Would definately play L Barry if fit.

penga
11th March 2003, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by penga

ball maxfield cresswell


what i shoulda said was ball: ball maxfield cresswell

kouta looked fine in the practice games, no leg brace or anything, he also set a pb with his running as well... unless he has been injured in the last week or two that i havent heard about