The umpires need to be investigated.

[bloodsbigot]

Seriously. That's a @@@@ing joke.

How long are Hawthorn players allowed to hold onto the ball before disposing of it? Every single time it happened to us we get pinged.

I'm completely embarrassed by us 'being nice supporters.' That is complete bull@@@@ and so is this result.

[Faunac8]

Seriously. That's a @@@@ing joke.

How long are Hawthorn players allowed to hold onto the ball before disposing of it? Every single time it happened to us we get pinged.

I'm completely embarrassed by us 'being nice supporters.' That is complete bull@@@@ and so is this result.

Normally I am happy to accept that some umpiring decisions can be hard to decipher however tonight was the most baffling and infuriating night I have seen for many a year. I believe I saw at least five incorrect disposals by oppidition players go undetected . The frees for the Swans in the last 1/4 were just an evening up process. Shocking night by the officials

[churry]

Firstly another very close game the swans have lost which really shatters our confidence. Can't really make any excuses, that's 3 recent games that the swans should have taken advantage on but lost all and has already hurt our September chances.

Yes the umpiring was horrible and those 50s plus the count was brutal. Another seriously close game for Hawks where the umpires massaged them, not a good look at all and of course the umpires are immune from criticism within the afl.

[Doctor J.]

Kilroy, when you compose yourself. Go hard go long and go often. I'm over afl at the moment. It is a joke. Let's just give hawthorn the 4 in a row and start the 2017 season now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[annew]

Kilroy, when you compose yourself. Go hard go long and go often. I'm over afl at the moment. It is a joke. Let's just give hawthorn the 4 in a row and start the 2017 season now
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree with you and from all accounts there are many on social media who do too and it makes you think the must be something in it when opposition fans are sick of hawks frees and are actually sticking up for the swans cos we all know they dont like us

- - - Updated - - -

Further to my post above - Brad Scott was right in complaining about the umpires and lo and behold it was when they played Hawks

[longmile]

Ive never felt so hurt and betrayed by umpiring before. Truly disgraceful. I'm @@@@ing over it.

[Maltopia]

We are obviously are the most undisciplined and unskillful team in the competition, as we keep giving away free kicks. Every game vs a Melbourne side except for Essendon has resulted in more free kicks given away than rewarded. 16 games this season, 10 with more free kicks given away, 3 tied, and 3 where we got more free kicks vs GWS once, Essendon and GC... what a coincidence?

Hawks 15 - 9
Geelong 24 - 23
Bulldogs 17 - 16
Melbourne 17 - 16
GWS 22 - 15
GC 14 - 19
NM 20 - 20
Hawthorn 15 - 12
Richmond 28 - 26
Essendon 18 - 21
Brisbane 23 - 19
West Coast 19 - 19
Adelaide 23 - 21
GWS 19 - 30
Carlton 23 - 23
Collingwood 23 - 18

[bloodsbigot]

The only solace I take is that it's eerily similar to 2012. Win to Hawks away. Lose by the skin of our teeth at the SCG.

We always lose when Hodge is in.

The loss doesn't surprise me as I was expecting it, but to lose it in that way makes me just want to give up this sport. It's just not worth following a comp that's completely corrupt.

[Robtorq]

Am I the only that sees the Hawks player blocking the man on the mark. The do it all the time without penalty

[Hotpotato]

We are obviously are the most undisciplined and unskillful team in the competition, as we keep giving away free kicks. Every game vs a Melbourne side except for Essendon has resulted in more free kicks given away than rewarded. 16 games this season, 10 with more free kicks given away, 3 tied, and 3 where we got more free kicks vs GWS once, Essendon and GC... what a coincidence?

Hawks 15 - 9
Geelong 24 - 23
Bulldogs 17 - 16
Melbourne 17 - 16
GWS 22 - 15
GC 14 - 19
NM 20 - 20
Hawthorn 15 - 12
Richmond 28 - 26
Essendon 18 - 21
Brisbane 23 - 19
West Coast 19 - 19
Adelaide 23 - 21
GWS 19 - 30
Carlton 23 - 23
Collingwood 23 - 18

Hard to argue with that.
Looks like we do infringe more than most, or the umps reckon we do .
So apart from a professional foul, study the rules boys, even though some of them seem ridiculous (10m zone ).

[stellation]

I don't think there's a real conspiracy in Hawthorn's favour, although I concede that's probably more based around a skeptic view of "surely that sort of thing doesn't really go on", but I'd be curious to know just what it is. Is it something to do with their training regime and they just have remarkable core strength across the board, so a team with JPK's ability to stand in the tackle longer seems uneven and we focus on the anomalies? Is it group think on the rest of the AFL fandom's behalf that leads us to collectively view everything as an example? Have they been trained in specific techniques that other teams need to cotton on to on how to make free kicks that could go to them appear more obvious and conceal those that should go against them?

It's probably the first game I've walked away from in a while genuinely feeling the umpiring ruined the enjoyment of it, and did find myself thinking "I kind of get the whole #freekickhawthorn thing".

[AnnieH]

.... if the swans played the ball and not the man, they wouldn't give away so many free kicks.
On the other hand, I called about 20 things the cheaters did that didn't get penalised.

[Industrial Fan]

We lost to Bulldogs in what I thought was a great contest and as far as losses go, I enjoyed it.

Left the ground last night pissed off and with no voice. Commented at some point that Def leopards drummer was out there umpiring and could only pay free kicks in one direction.

From the one where Lewis was taken down arm pinned with no disposal to Nick Smith being told to play on without coming off his line the umpiring was @@@@.

The 50 against Jack came at such a critical time, and I would really like to know whether the one against McGlynn was legitimate with another player running in the exclusion zone. Didn't see it as McGlynn trying to impede the player that had taken the mark more trying to get to the runner.

[mcs]

We are obviously are the most undisciplined and unskillful team in the competition, as we keep giving away free kicks. Every game vs a Melbourne side except for Essendon has resulted in more free kicks given away than rewarded. 16 games this season, 10 with more free kicks given away, 3 tied, and 3 where we got more free kicks vs GWS once, Essendon and GC... what a coincidence?

Hawks 15 - 9
Geelong 24 - 23
Bulldogs 17 - 16
Melbourne 17 - 16
GWS 22 - 15
GC 14 - 19
NM 20 - 20
Hawthorn 15 - 12
Richmond 28 - 26
Essendon 18 - 21
Brisbane 23 - 19
West Coast 19 - 19
Adelaide 23 - 21
GWS 19 - 30
Carlton 23 - 23
Collingwood 23 - 18

I'd argue that the free kick stats gets skewed because we don't get rewarded nearly enough for 'free kick earning' efforts like good tackles. There were are least 4 or 5 instances last night that were clear holding the ball/illegal disposals where we should of got free but didn't - its an ongoing trend this year, and so frustrating. In particular we don't get nearly enough reward when the players do the 'Hawthorn drop'.

if people think last nights umpiring was bad, just remember the Hawks can call on Stevic, Schmitt, Pannell or Chamberlain comes finals time - who are all infinitely worse than the three on show last night. The rest of the competition is @@@@@@, as the umps will ensure the hawks get over the line if they need to.

If the rules were enforced as they should be, in particular incorrect disposal, the hawks would come back to the field very quickly. They are the masters at dropping the ball and incorrect disposal, and dodgy handballs, and they get away with it time and time and time and time and time again.

- - - Updated - - -


We lost to Bulldogs in what I thought was a great contest and as far as losses go, I enjoyed it.

Left the ground last night pissed off and with no voice. Commented at some point that Def leopards drummer was out there umpiring and could only pay free kicks in one direction.

From the one where Lewis was taken down arm pinned with no disposal to Nick Smith being told to play on without coming off his line the umpiring was @@@@.

The 50 against Jack came at such a critical time, and I would really like to know whether the one against McGlynn was legitimate with another player running in the exclusion zone. Didn't see it as McGlynn trying to impede the player that had taken the mark more trying to get to the runner.

The Jack one was exceptionally harsh - he couldn't just magically get out of the protected zone, and hadn't deviated to get in there, a poor 50/50 call. The McGlynn one was there though - I really think the Dawks player went to play on and McGlynn's actions were fair though, but I can see how they gave it. I wish the umpires would stop focusing on crap like that and start focusing on frees that should be given but are not - i.e. those when players dispose of the ball by just dropping it cold.

[BRISWAN]

We are obviously are the most undisciplined and unskillful team in the competition, as we keep giving away free kicks. Every game vs a Melbourne side except for Essendon has resulted in more free kicks given away than rewarded. 16 games this season, 10 with more free kicks given away, 3 tied, and 3 where we got more free kicks vs GWS once, Essendon and GC... what a coincidence?

Hawks 15 - 9
Geelong 24 - 23
Bulldogs 17 - 16
Melbourne 17 - 16
GWS 22 - 15
GC 14 - 19
NM 20 - 20
Hawthorn 15 - 12
Richmond 28 - 26
Essendon 18 - 21
Brisbane 23 - 19
West Coast 19 - 19
Adelaide 23 - 21
GWS 19 - 30
Carlton 23 - 23
Collingwood 23 - 18

Wouldn't it be interesting to see the same free kick comparison for Hawthorn //////

[crackedactor]

I'd argue that the free kick stats gets skewed because we don't get rewarded nearly enough for 'free kick earning' efforts like good tackles. There were are least 4 or 5 instances last night that were clear holding the ball/illegal disposals where we should of got free but didn't - its an ongoing trend this year, and so frustrating. In particular we don't get nearly enough reward when the players do the 'Hawthorn drop'.

if people think last nights umpiring was bad, just remember the Hawks can call on Stevic, Schmitt, Pannell or Chamberlain comes finals time - who are all infinitely worse than the three on show last night. The rest of the competition is @@@@@@, as the umps will ensure the hawks get over the line if they need to.

If the rules were enforced as they should be, in particular incorrect disposal, the hawks would come back to the field very quickly. They are the masters at dropping the ball and incorrect disposal, and dodgy handballs, and they get away with it time and time and time and time and time again.

- - - Updated - - -



The Jack one was exceptionally harsh - he couldn't just magically get out of the protected zone, and hadn't deviated to get in there, a poor 50/50 call. The McGlynn one was there though - I really think the Dawks player went to play on and McGlynn's actions were fair though, but I can see how they gave it. I wish the umpires would stop focusing on crap like that and start focusing on frees that should be given but are not - i.e. those when players dispose of the ball by just dropping it cold.

What about the Lewis one where Rohan pinned him by the arm he just dropped the ball. Nothing. what about the Lloyd free kick when he was blatantly held back, when there was about 40 seconds to go, Nothing. Mcglynn was only a natural reaction for someone that was about the handball, 99% of the time the umps just give a warning. Hawthorn is the AFL love child and 4 flags is a no brainer, my interest in 2016 is almost gone already and I may start following NRL.

[mcs]

What about the Lewis one where Rohan pinned him by the arm he just dropped the ball. Nothing. what about the Lloyd free kick when he was blatantly held back, when there was about 40 seconds to go, Nothing. Mcglynn was only a natural reaction for someone that was about the handball, 99% of the time the umps just give a warning. Hawthorn is the AFL love child and 4 flags is a no brainer, my interest in 2016 is almost gone already and I may start following NRL.

Haha crack don't bother with NRL if you want to watch a code with better officiating.... their referees make AFL umpires look like professionals.

There is no doubt the Hawks get more than their fair share of the rub of the green. Its just something we, or anyone else, will have to overcome to beat the scum and break the curse on the AFL. They were so, so very lucky in both 2012 and 2014 to even make the GF after they got some ridiculous calls in both prelim finals at critical stages. It'll take an almighty effort for anyone to beat the Hawks as a team of 18 players, let alone when you take their extras in green into account. But I dare to hope someone will manage to do it - I'm just so over their feral fans and their arrogant bunch of wanker players.

I bleat constantly about the blight that dropping the ball is on the game. Hawks are the experts at getting away with it, in particular when they lift the ball up high in contests and just let it 'slip' out of their hands - that is the one that really grates me.

[caj23]

I've never been so angry about the umpires as I was last night

Would it be a fair comment to suggest that we don't have the interstate home ground advantage that the SA and WA teams have as our supporters are too polite. They would have been booed mercilessly at those venues and wouldn't have got out of the ground alive with a performance like that!

[Blue Sun]

I missed Longmires post match interview, did he make note of the umpiring? I would love an explanation from the umps in regards to what the Swans did wrong to not earn the free kick in various situations. That Hodge tackle on Sinclair early on was reckless, negligent and bordering on malicious quite frankly, and yet it went unnoticed - they turned a blind eye (and then called him out on an innocuous tackle on McGlynn later on - atoning for a past mistake, much?). Hodge gets a golden ticket it seems, the guy went DUI for Christs sake and he barely got a slap on the wrist.

It seems they've also forgotten the holding the ball decision and you can now drop the ball as you please with no consequence. That is of course unless Hawthorn tackle you, in which case it's a free kick.

I bet the umpires make a point of the protected zone 50m penalty for the remaining games of this round too, whether it was actually a focus for the umpires this week or to cover their own behinds. Neither would surprise me.

I hate the Hawks, not afraid to admit it. They were good last night, but the Swans were better for most of it. If the umpiring was 50/50, we'd have won. That's what pisses me off.

[mcs]

I've never been so angry about the umpires as I was last night

Would it be a fair comment to suggest that we don't have the interstate home ground advantage that the SA and WA teams have as our supporters are too polite. They would have been booed mercilessly at those venues and wouldn't have got out of the ground alive with a performance like that!

Definitely agree Caj about the home ground advantage - I put it down a bit to our crowd not having as larger % of 'diehard' fans as those states (where they all live and breathe afl and that's it) - so its a more passive crowd. At times in the Trumper Stand its like a morgue, with many people far more concerned about what they are doing on the weekend or what pub they are going to get pissed at then what's going on on the field. You often get funny looks when you show a bit of passion and get stuck in a bit too. We certainly don't get the 19th man advantage that other clubs do playing at home - but its not something that can quickly be fixed.

[Danzar]

It's actually gotten to the point where the Hawks have integrated the room umps give them into their style of play. Short kicks, holding possession, crowding the mark etc etc. There's a reason why they win while still having such a low contested possession count - they just hold onto the ball, creep it up the ground, then attack.

[Swanny40519]

I hate the Hawks, not afraid to admit it. They were good last night, but the Swans were better for most of it. If the umpiring was 50/50, we'd have won. That's what pisses me off.

I agree. I feel shattered after last night. The umpires were disgraceful in the fact they were so one sided. They received 6 free kicks to nothing in the second qtr, and you cannot tell me that Hawks did not do one single illegal tackle, push in the back, holding the ball or arm hold.

I could handle the Bulldogs loss as it was a hard fair contest, but last night was just an example of a corrupt AFL competition with pathetic umpires. I dread the finals when Stevic, Smitch and co umpire their favoured team.

[jono2707]

Geez I thought us Swans fans were better than whining and moaning about umpiring but apparently not. We didn't deserve to win that game last night and to blame umpiring 'conspiracies' is pathetic.

[mcs]

It's actually gotten to the point where the Hawks have integrated the room umps give them into their style of play. Short kicks, holding possession, crowding the mark etc etc. There's a reason why they win while still having such a low contested possession count - they just hold onto the ball, creep it up the ground, then attack.

They certainly are masters at manipulating every little bit of space afforded by the umpires. Just like they are masters at the 'dropsies' over the head tactic that is used as a way to get away with incorrect disposal in congested passages. They are always first to adopt to any changes and to find a way to make it work for them.

[Swanny40519]

How do the the hawks get away with crowding the man on the mark, holding and pushing while their kicker plays on around the man on the mark.

It happens all the time and they are never penalised, but if one of our players goes near them - 50m straight away.

[The Big Cat]

Someone in the media mentioned the other day that before every match Hawthorn have pictures of each umpire in the rooms so each player can address them by name when they come into the rooms before the game.

[RogueSwan]

I don't think there's a real conspiracy in Hawthorn's favour, although I concede that's probably more based around a skeptic view of "surely that sort of thing doesn't really go on", but I'd be curious to know just what it is. Is it something to do with their training regime and they just have remarkable core strength across the board...

I did listen to a podcast during the week where they mentioned that all the Hawks players learn every umpires name. Before the game when the umpires meet the teams the Hawks players go out of their way to use the umpires names when greeting them. I don't know if other teams do this, or if it is true. If it is the case it is a very smart thing they are doing.

edit: beaten by BC

[stellation]

The Jack one was exceptionally harsh - he couldn't just magically get out of the protected zone, and hadn't deviated to get in there, a poor 50/50 call. The McGlynn one was there though - I really think the Dawks player went to play on and McGlynn's actions were fair though, but I can see how they gave it. I wish the umpires would stop focusing on crap like that and start focusing on frees that should be given but are not - i.e. those when players dispose of the ball by just dropping it cold.
The Jack one was a little puzzling- I haven't seen a replay of it, but live it did feel remarkably fast to be blowing the whistle for a 50 for encroaching on the protected zone. The only thing I could think of is that the rule is you're supposed to leave the protected area by the quickest possible route, so Jack perhaps should have been running in a different direction, but ignoring that seems to rarely be paid, it was such a quick whistle I don't think you could reasonably have expected the player to have really twigged what was going on.

The McGlynn one was "technically there", but it was a good example of over policing a rule- he in no way held up the player with the kick, and immediately returned to his mark. Umpires should be able to adjudicate as they see fit for the shades of grey rulings, but there needs to be pretty clear cut guidance given to them that encroaching a mark by a couple of steps under those circumstances and not in any way impeding the player taking the kick is perfectly fine. If Ben hadn't returned to the mark and had just followed the Hawk player who had run past then I doubt it would have been called, which suggests there really was no impact.

[RogueSwan]

Geez I thought us Swans fans were better than whining and moaning about umpiring but apparently not. We didn't deserve to win that game last night and to blame umpiring 'conspiracies' is pathetic.

Yep, only some of the Swans seemed to be trying their best last night, and it seemed to be the kids. Our much vaunted midfield, Kennedy Parker and Hanners, seemed tired and lost last night.
I don't think it is the umpires fault we can't hold a lead with two minutes to go, I'm guessing that is inexperience.
Would we have lost these close games last year with Goodesy and Shaw playing? Does it point to our leaders not taking control when required? I don't know :hmmmm2:

[Maltopia]

Geez I thought us Swans fans were better than whining and moaning about umpiring but apparently not. We didn't deserve to win that game last night and to blame umpiring 'conspiracies' is pathetic.

Hey jono2727, what rubs me is that the Hawks were only kept in the game through the lop-sided umpiring particularly in the first half, e.g., quick HTB against us, vs Lewis obvious drop of the ball, 50m called on us, but not them etc. If we had gotten closer on the 50/50 calls instead of losing most of them, then it wouldn't have mattered what we did in the final 100 seconds as the game would have been out of reach for the Hawks.

Most people saying it is a conspiracy are just venting, but it does really look like there is biased officiating against us. It might be unintentional bias, but it is still bad for a national game overall.

We really need more umpires from WA, SA, NSW etc., just like international cricket introduced having "neutral" umpires from non-competing countries. Umpires who openly barrack for certain teams etc., should just not officiate games involving those teams. This is not because they are cheats, but why put the umpire into a situation where his integrity might be questioned? Just avoid the potential possibility/appearance of bias altogether.

[liz]

Yep, only some of the Swans seemed to be trying their best last night, and it seemed to be the kids. Our much vaunted midfield, Kennedy Parker and Hanners, seemed tired and lost last night.
I don't think it is the umpires fault we can't hold a lead with two minutes to go, I'm guessing that is inexperience.
Would we have lost these close games last year with Goodesy and Shaw playing? Does it point to our leaders not taking control when required? I don't know :hmmmm2:

Can't agree with your first sentence. We lost by 5 points, with similar inside 50s, three quarters of the game played in the Swans' style. Only in the second quarter were the Hawks allowed to dictate play. Hanners did struggle for impact (I wasn't looking closely but I suspect he was being tagged) but I thought Parker and Kennedy were very good and, along with Rohan, the Swans' best contributors.) The team made mistakes, sure, but I didn't come away thinking any of the players weren't trying their hardest.

[ugg]

I think what gives the impression that the Swans weren't trying was that Hawthorn were so clean and quick with their disposal. They must practice their in close work a lot, it has become almost instinct for them to know where each player is meant to be and how they could trust each other to hit the right target.

By contrast we were making simple errors, the one that sticks out in my head was a Swans player marking in the half forward area, might have been Sinclair, he handballs to McVeigh about 5 metres away, McVeigh fumbles under no real pressure and we turn it over. What should have been an inside 50 turns into a Hawthorn attack instead.

[crackedactor]

Geez I thought us Swans fans were better than whining and moaning about umpiring but apparently not. We didn't deserve to win that game last night and to blame umpiring 'conspiracies' is pathetic.
Hey mate, the only thing pathetic is your post. How can you say that third quarters of running and tackling is only worthy of 3 free kicks in total? Simple probability tells you something is wrong!

[bloodbrother]

My wife and I were sitting near some hawks supporters last night unfortunately and like the umpiring they were a disgrace . Agree with posts here that say that if it is fair and above board I can cop the loss but when the frees paid to one side and not the other are so blatant then it turns our sport into a joke.

[Plugger46]

Geez I thought us Swans fans were better than whining and moaning about umpiring but apparently not. We didn't deserve to win that game last night and to blame umpiring 'conspiracies' is pathetic.

You overrate Swans fans then.

No conspiracy. It was a cracking game of footy. Two champions kicked massive goals in the last quarter to give them victory. Sometimes you just have to tip your hat to the opposition.

They missed a few. It happens, it's a tough gig. Every single supporter base thinks the umpires are against them. It's pathetic.

[AnnieH]

We had some disgusting Dawks supporters behind us.
The area that I sit in is "members reserve". I know that the seats behind me are seats that belong to members.
By 3/4 time, I'd had enough of these jerks and I asked if they are sitting in the right seats.
They got a bit narky, and the feral chick said asked me if I was asking to see her ticket.
I said yes, she can either show them to me to prove they should be sitting there, or she can show them to the security guard I'm about to call and he can decide if she should be sitting there.
Suffice to say they didn't open their mouth again. Even when they won.
People @@@@ me today.

[barry]

I think the key thing here is not the umps loving the hawks, but the hawks loving the umps.
Hawthorn have developed a way to get the umps on side. Whether it be a close relationship, knowing them personally, whatever.

Whatever it is, we must do the same. No point complaining about it. An Longmire needs to stop shrugging his shoulders and be proactive.

[Industrial Fan]

You overrate Swans fans then.

No conspiracy. It was a cracking game of footy. Two champions kicked massive goals in the last quarter to give them victory. Sometimes you just have to tip your hat to the opposition.

They missed a few. It happens, it's a tough gig. Every single supporter base thinks the umpires are against them. It's pathetic.I dont think its a conspiracy but can you honestly say that the umpiring was balanced last night? For Longmire to comment on it says alot - he wouldnt normally point to something like that. 3-13....

I much prefer the game to be under umpired than over, but it should also go both ways which it didnt.

[dimelb]

I don't believe that umpires intend to favour one team over another. There is no conspiracy. On the contrary, they seem to me to take pride in their job, work hard at fitness and try to meet player hostility with calmness.

On the other hand I find it quite possible that umpires fall into habits and assumptions that need to be looked at from time to time. For instance, seeing the Hawks as expert ball handlers (which they obviously are) may mean that flaws in technique are missed. That's the sort of thing that may be worth investigating.

[Plugger46]

I dont think its a conspiracy but can you honestly say that the umpiring was balanced last night? For Longmire to comment on it says alot - he wouldnt normally point to something like that. 3-13....

I much prefer the game to be under umpired than over, but it should also go both ways which it didnt.

I thought they missed a few holding the ball decisions both ways. A couple of holds in marking contests could've gone our way. I don't like the 'protected area' rule but that's not an umpiring fault. The McGlynn was obvious and stupid.

I don't think poor umpiring cost us victory. A lack of composure did.

As for Longmire, he didn't give much away did he? Asked a direct question and he answered it by saying we were undisciplined. He may not have meant that but that's what he said.

[crackedactor]

I think the key thing here is not the umps loving the hawks, but the hawks loving the umps.
Hawthorn have developed a way to get the umps on side. Whether it be a close relationship, knowing them personally, whatever.

Whatever it is, we must do the same. No point complaining about it. An Longmire needs to stop shrugging his shoulders and be proactive.

It is the highest standard in Australia, umps should be above being friends with Hawthorn or any other team, just because they are friendly towards them. They need to be stand alone, unbias and totally professional and not open to any bribes, whether its money. gifts or just being a bunch of friendly guys.

[RogueSwan]

Can't agree with your first sentence. We lost by 5 points, with similar inside 50s, three quarters of the game played in the Swans' style. Only in the second quarter were the Hawks allowed to dictate play. Hanners did struggle for impact (I wasn't looking closely but I suspect he was being tagged) but I thought Parker and Kennedy were very good and, along with Rohan, the Swans' best contributors.) The team made mistakes, sure, but I didn't come away thinking any of the players weren't trying their hardest.
Yes, poor choice of words, I don't think any Swans goes out and doesn't give their all. My impression was that they didn't seem to be around the contest as often as they usual are, it felt they were just struggling to get into game. I don't think the game was 3/4 "Swans style", maybe it was, either way it shows our boys have a lot of work to do before the finals. Then again, if we had held our lead for another two minutes this I wouldn't have even made that post. :smile:

[AnnieH]

I thought they missed a few holding the ball decisions both ways. A couple of holds in marking contests could've gone our way. I don't like the 'protected area' rule but that's not an umpiring fault. The McGlynn was obvious and stupid.

I don't think poor umpiring cost us victory. A lack of composure did.

As for Longmire, he didn't give much away did he? Asked a direct question and he answered it by saying we were undisciplined. He may not have meant that but that's what he said.

He was being sarcastic.

[Swanny40519]

We had some disgusting Dawks supporters behind us.
The area that I sit in is "members reserve". I know that the seats behind me are seats that belong to members.
By 3/4 time, I'd had enough of these jerks and I asked if they are sitting in the right seats.
They got a bit narky, and the feral chick said asked me if I was asking to see her ticket.
I said yes, she can either show them to me to prove they should be sitting there, or she can show them to the security guard I'm about to call and he can decide if she should be sitting there.
Suffice to say they didn't open their mouth again. Even when they won.
People @@@@ me today.

Good on ya.

We had some normal (disgusting Dawk supporters behind us as well).

In a very tense last qtr when we actually received a couple of free kicks they went berserk and complained the umpires were favouring the Swans. I saw red and after that we had a few interesting verbal discussions on the ability of Mitchell and Hodge to get easy free kicks and the Dawk team in general how they get the easy free's.
Unfortunately then Burgoyne and Rioli kicked a couple of goals and we went home very very frustrated and angry.

[jono2707]

Hey mate, the only thing pathetic is your post. How can you say that third quarters of running and tackling is only worthy of 3 free kicks in total? Simple probability tells you something is wrong!

I just don't subscribe to the conspiracy theories that some fans of all teams seem to think exist. That's all. There is some really good analysis on this thread about how the Hawks seem to suit their play to umpiring standards etc. At least that analysis keeps this thread above tin foil hat level.

[AnnieH]

Good on ya.

We had some normal (disgusting Dawk supporters behind us as well).

In a very tense last qtr when we actually received a couple of free kicks they went berserk and complained the umpires were favouring the Swans. I saw red and after that we had a few interesting verbal discussions on the ability of Mitchell and Hodge to get easy free kicks and the Dawk team in general how they get the easy free's.
Unfortunately then Burgoyne and Rioli kicked a couple of goals and we went home very very frustrated and angry.

I'm STILL angry.
I just want to sit down in the corner and have a good cry.

[RogueSwan]

... They need to be stand alone, unbias and totally professional and not open to any bribes, whether its money. gifts or just being a bunch of friendly guys.

Give them a clear set of rules that don't need interpretation or understanding someone's intent.
This would make it easier to officiate. This won't/can't happen so then we have to put up these guys (and gals) doing their best.
Does anyone think the umpires took on this awful (I was going to say "thankless" but it is worse than that, as shown at games and even in this thread) to try and help out a team they support? Anyone on here want to be an umpire to even out the "Hawks biased" umpiring?
It would actually be interesting to know why these guys wanted to become umpires and whether those reasons still stand. If I took it on, it would be because I want to see the game officiated in the most even, noninvasive way possible.
Plus, it would be kinda cool to watch (and be paid for it) these incredible matches/athletes up close. Then again, the umps probably don't get to appreciate a game whilst they are in the middle of it.

[Industrial Fan]

I thought they missed a few holding the ball decisions both ways. A couple of holds in marking contests could've gone our way. I don't like the 'protected area' rule but that's not an umpiring fault. The McGlynn was obvious and stupid.

I don't think poor umpiring cost us victory. A lack of composure did.

As for Longmire, he didn't give much away did he? Asked a direct question and he answered it by saying we were undisciplined. He may not have meant that but that's what he said.Despite the one armed umpiring we had every chance to win late and werent composed enough to hang on - I'll give you that.

But the scores shouldnt have been close enough to matter.

I still dont think McGlynn went over the mark to impede Ceglar he was trying to go to the runner in the protected area. What is the rule on that - I thought you could go into that area if tracking an opposition player?

[KTigers]

I was very surprised that in three quarters of football, the "unsociable football" Hawthorn only infringed three times.
I don't think the umps favour one team over another, but they are very inconsistent with their rulings.
I find their inability to judge how far 15 metres is incredible. There were a number of kicks (including a couple of ours) last
night that barely went half that distance, yet were called marks. This is kindergarten stuff, and some of these guys just have no
idea whatsoever.

[Doctor]

I thought they missed a few holding the ball decisions both ways. A couple of holds in marking contests could've gone our way. I don't like the 'protected area' rule but that's not an umpiring fault. The McGlynn was obvious and stupid.

I don't think poor umpiring cost us victory. A lack of composure did.

As for Longmire, he didn't give much away did he? Asked a direct question and he answered it by saying we were undisciplined. He may not have meant that but that's what he said.

He was clearly being sarcastic. He is smart and composed enough to know that commenting further will just get him into trouble but he was clearly exasperated about the 50s and the free kick count.

[Doctor]

For what it's worth, I thought most of the free kicks the Hawks got in the 2nd quarter were there. They may have been 50/50 calls, but Hawthorn were first to the ball most of the time in that period and that usually gets you the call. The 50M against Jack was a disgraceful call though and is the one that probably turned the game back to them. McGlynn should also have been warned first as that is what happens most of the time. You could see the umpire waiting for him to do it, rather than officiating it on its merits.

Yes the Lewis drop was bad, and other bits and pieces around the ground could have gone either way, but it's really those two 50s that stick in my craw. Having said all that, our second quarter was dismal and that's why we lost.

[barry]

Despite 2 out of 18 teams coming from nsw, there are no AFL umpires from NSW or reside in NSW.

Almost impossible for us to understand or form a relationship with them.

AFL Umpires Profiles - M.afl.com.au (http://m.afl.com.au/umpires/profiles)

[jono2707]

Despite 2 out of 18 teams coming from nsw, there are no AFL umpires from NSW or reside in NSW.

Almost impossible for us to understand or form a relationship with them.

AFL Umpires Profiles - M.afl.com.au (http://m.afl.com.au/umpires/profiles)

We need an academy!

[KTigers]

Basically the AFL has decreed that the umpires can't be questioned regardless of how incompetent they are, so there is no real pressure on them (the umpires) to improve. It's their job, they are getting paid (ultimately by us, the fans), why can't they handle a bit of criticism?. It happens in other workplaces, if you mess up, you'll likely cop some heat for it. Maybe the umpires could actually learn something from the criticism. Even basic stuff, like how far 15 metres is....


He was clearly being sarcastic. He is smart and composed enough to know that commenting further will just get him into trouble but he was clearly exasperated about the 50s and the free kick count.

[crackedactor]

For what it is worth, a news item just came through saying that the AFL rules committee admitted that the 50 meter penalty against Kieran Jack was a mistake!! Does us a lot of good now.

[penga]

To be fair, I thought the worst decisions of the night actually favoured us. McGlynn being slung, and Grundy taking out Cyril in a marking contest, with no eyes for the ball.

McGlynn's 50 was warranted, and just plain dumb, from a seasoned player.

[AnnieH]

For what it is worth, a news item just came through saying that the AFL rules committee admitted that the 50 meter penalty against Kieran Jack was a mistake!! Does us a lot of good now.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Bastards.

[crackedactor]

To be fair, I thought the worst decisions of the night actually favoured us. McGlynn being slung, and Grundy taking out Cyril in a marking contest, with no eyes for the ball.

McGlynn's 50 was warranted, and just plain dumb, from a seasoned player.

Have we got several hawthorn supporters on this forum! Hodge performed a sling tackle on Sinclair and then Mcglynn. The following is an extract from the AFL website:

The AFL will crack down on sling tackles this year, paying free kicks for lifting tackles even before a player is dumped into the ground.

[dimelb]

Penalty against Sydney Swans' Kieren Jack was a mistake, says AFL lawmaker (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-2016-afl-laws-of-the-game-committee-member-says-umpires-erred-in-50metre-penalty-against-sydney-swans-captain-kieren-jack-20160715-gq6kla.html)

[stevoswan]

Geez I thought us Swans fans were better than whining and moaning about umpiring but apparently not. We didn't deserve to win that game last night and to blame umpiring 'conspiracies' is pathetic.

Are you blind or just PC? Sorry Jono, to not see last nights injustice is 'pathetic'.......

[stellation]

For what it is worth, a news item just came through saying that the AFL rules committee admitted that the 50 meter penalty against Kieran Jack was a mistake!! Does us a lot of good now.

Ouch!

It will be interesting to see what the umpire's boss says about it, assuming they can be drawn to comment on it.

[ugg]

I don't think that's a fair summation of the article. Michael Christian gave his personal opinion of the matter, rather than speaking on behalf of the AFL lawmakers.

[penga]

Have we got several hawthorn supporters on this forum! Hodge performed a sling tackle on Sinclair and then Mcglynn. The following is an extract from the AFL website:

The AFL will crack down on sling tackles this year, paying free kicks for lifting tackles even before a player is dumped into the ground.

Not a soft free then? Ha.. #objective

[wolftone57]

Seriously. That's a @@@@ing joke.

How long are Hawthorn players allowed to hold onto the ball before disposing of it? Every single time it happened to us we get pinged.

I'm completely embarrassed by us 'being nice supporters.' That is complete bull@@@@ and so is this result.


i generally leave the ground and leave the anger there. But last night I couldn't. I was furious. I even accused the umpires of being paid to help Hawks win. They were that bad to us last night that is what first popped into my head. How much has your wife, family member on friend got on the game for you ump? Yelled it out in the third in fact.

Two very dubious 50 metres. The first was when Hannas went to stand the mark. He was called as the extra be the umpire and therefore impinging the zone. He was the man standing the mark you flog. If he wasn't in the right spot how about moving him to the right spot.

The second was when the Hawks got a free on the wing and Towers was next to the Hawks player and trying to run out of the zone. The Hawks player only just got the ball, a second after the umpire calls Towers for being in the zone. he was trying to leave the zone you flog and you are allowed to time to get out of the zone if you are in it when the free is called. Two crucial frees that simply were not there.

Free kick tally to that stage was 15-5 Hawks way. Did these frees have a bearing on the result? My bloody oath they did. Scored 1.1 from them.

Rohan is pushed so strongly in the back he ends up flat on his face in the turf. No free. He was pissed off to the hilt over that one and I don't blame him. did it have impact, my oath it did ball went free and Hawks got a goal. If Rohan had been paid he would have been 35-40 out and a pretty good bet.

Stratton yanks Buddy's hand from the ball in the marking contest, his hand is obviously gripping Buddy's wrist. Even Helen Keller could have seen that. The umpie says no free. It was 20-30 out.

Papley, I think it was Papley, is having a shot at goal two Hawks players enter the zone, one following a Swans player, the other following his teammate. The second player is not allowed in the zone. He also hit Papley in the back. This was a good example of entering the prohibited zone and should have been 50. Nothing.

Hawks players who see they are outnumbered simply drop the pill to the ground at their feet and then dive on it and create a scrimmage. This gives their teammates time to get to the contest at a stoppage. It is incorrect disposal and was done all night by them. not only that they also just drop the ball or hand the ball on in a pack. This is how they slow the game down then spread out of the pack. It is bloody incorrect disposal every day of the week.

Do I think the umpies were on the take? Probably that or just totally incompetent. Mind you that little bastard Ryan wouldn't give us a free even if he was told his life depended on it.

[wolftone57]

Hard to argue with that.
Looks like we do infringe more than most, or the umps reckon we do .
So apart from a professional foul, study the rules boys, even though some of them seem ridiculous (10m zone ).


It's not about studying the rules. The players know the rules. Sometimes you are going to get pinged. It is a physical game and therefore you are going to impinge some time. But what I think everyone is getting at is there is a pattern developing in which we are not given a fair go by corrupt officials & I tend to agree. Are they on the take or is the AFL making them play us hard? I don't know but what I do know is some of the umpiring I have seen this year has been some of the worst I have ever seen and that includes District Footy in Adelaide and that was pretty crappy. I heard that Nichols is a Footscray boy and grew up following the Bulldogs. If you look at his matches umpiring the Bullies this year you will find the ledger id firmly on the bullies side on his decisions. Double at least the frees he gives to other sides. We had him v Bullies and I'll tell you he was terrible to us. Not the others just him. But last night the whole lot were bloody unbelievably bad. Either that or incompetent. Now the AFL has admitted the 50 against Jack was wrong. Well AFL are you going to take the goal back? Wow I actually thought it was against Towers for infringing the zone (would have been wrong free anyway). Jack over the mark? He never moved him back or called him to come back two metres, three metres etc. What a joke.

[ugg]

The first one was against Kizza, not Hanners.

[bloodsbigot]

On Jack being penalized for 50:

"But if you looked at them (50m penalties), they were clearly there. I don't think anyone's disputing the fifties."
-Gillon McLachlan, 3AW Radio

OH BUT WAIT A SECOND GIL...

�I think it was a mistake by the umpire because he was already in there, he ran out immediately, he didn�t sprint but he was going quickly enough to get out of the area, realised he was in there and the whistle blew."
-Michael Christian, AFL�s Laws of the Game committee, Herald Sun


These clowns have no @@@@ing idea. They're corrupt @@@@ing liars.

[Blue Sun]

My biggest gripe was the non-call on Hodges dangerous sling tackle on Sinclair. Forget about the result of the match, who cares, Sinclairs health was seriously endangered in that tackle. A more acute angle and he could have ended up with a serious head/neck injury. I thought the AFL was cracking down on dangerous tackles. It should have been a free kick and Hodge reported on the spot. I hope the match review panel take a look at it. Whats their email address?

[Ludwig]

I generally don't like to blame the umpires because I think they are trying their best and are not consciously biased. I also realise that when I view Swans' games I'm biased and tend to the see the Swan frees missed by the umps more than the ones missed for the other side.

Having said that, I do sincerely think that the umpires have gifted Hawthorn 3 games this year with blatantly incorrect decisions.

I am thinking now the umpires subconsciously favour Hawthorn because of the wide belief that Hawthorn are best team so if they make a call that favours a Hawthorn victory everyone will just accept that the best team won anyway, the losers cry foul, but everyone moves on. The umpires come under a lot of scrutiny, but probably less so if they make decisions that favour the 'rightful' winner of the game. The umpires probably review videos of most of the games every week, if not all of them, and when they see Bruce McAveney spewing all over himself about how great Hawthorn are, it's hard not to have some influence on their decisions, however unintentional. For example, if they happen to pay an incorrect free to Sydney that leads to an easy goal that causes a loss for Hawthorn, there would be an uproar about how the game was stolen from the better team, because Hawthorn are always considered the better team, and when they lose, it's just because of some error, or they just didn't try hard enough because they know they can step up any time they want. I think that's Clarko's position about his club. When finals come around, they'll be on top.

I don't know what can be done about it. It just seems that with Hawthorn it's always Home Town Advantage.

[Mug Punter]

I generally don't like to blame the umpires because I think they are trying their best and are not consciously biased. I also realise that when I view Swans' games I'm biased and tend to the see the Swan frees missed by the umps more than the ones missed for the other side.

Having said that, I do sincerely think that the umpires have gifted Hawthorn 3 games this year with blatantly incorrect decisions.

I am thinking now the umpires subconsciously favour Hawthorn because of the wide belief that Hawthorn are best team so if they make a call that favours a Hawthorn victory everyone will just accept that the best team won anyway, the losers cry foul, but everyone moves on. The umpires come under a lot of scrutiny, but probably less so if they make decisions that favour the 'rightful' winner of the game. The umpires probably review videos of most of the games every week, if not all of them, and when they see Bruce McAveney spewing all over himself about how great Hawthorn are, it's hard not to have some influence on their decisions, however unintentional. For example, if they happen to pay an incorrect free to Sydney that leads to an easy goal that causes a loss for Hawthorn, there would be an uproar about how the game was stolen from the better team, because Hawthorn are always considered the better team, and when they lose, it's just because of some error, or they just didn't try hard enough because they know they can step up any time they want. I think that's Clarko's position about his club. When finals come around, they'll be on top.

I don't know what can be done about it. It just seems that with Hawthorn it's always Home Town Advantage.

I agree 100% with this post. I think it is generally weak to blame umpires when you lose but last night I lost my gear at the end and gave the umps a gobfull as they walked past me. Not proud of that tbh but they were exceptionally poor last night. To have two such marginal decisions in such an important game with such serious ramifications happen while the Hawks went untouched was pretty hard to take

[Maltopia]

On Jack being penalized for 50:

"But if you looked at them (50m penalties), they were clearly there. I don't think anyone's disputing the fifties."
-Gillon McLachlan, 3AW Radio

OH BUT WAIT A SECOND GIL...

�I think it was a mistake by the umpire because he was already in there, he ran out immediately, he didn�t sprint but he was going quickly enough to get out of the area, realised he was in there and the whistle blew."
-Michael Christian, AFL�s Laws of the Game committee, Herald Sun


These clowns have no @@@@ing idea. They're corrupt @@@@ing liars.

I lost any trust that Gil had integrity with his extremely weak act of saying Eddie's pathetic initial non-apology re Caroline Wilson was acceptable.

[Swans500]

Well more than 24 hours has elapsed and I am STILL bitter....Never usually lasts THAT long....Something different about it this time....

[bloodsbigot]

Well more than 24 hours has elapsed and I am STILL bitter....Never usually lasts THAT long....Something different about it this time....

I think my other thread proves the hawks are indeed screwing with the system and cheating right under our noses. And the AFL is doing nothing about it.

[Ludwig]

I watched the replay paying half attention to umpiring. Of the 3 free kicks we received up to 3qtr time, 1 was a 50 mtr against Rioli, another was a deliberate OOB by Poppy and I can't remember the 3rd. But it is impossible to play 3 qtrs of football and commit just one of the typical fouls, like head high contact, incorrect disposal, holding or something like that. It's just impossible. There must be a mental state among the umpires that if Hawthorn do it, since they are the perfect team, it must be legal. I'm not saying they do it on purpose, but there must be a tendency to let the close ones go their way.

Longmire only said what he could say without copping a fine, but he was clearly upset about the umpiring.

[bloodsbigot]

I watched the replay paying half attention to umpiring. Of the 3 free kicks we received up to 3qtr time, 1 was a 50 mtr against Rioli, another was a deliberate OOB by Poppy and I can't remember the 3rd. But it is impossible to play 3 qtrs of football and commit just one of the typical fouls, like head high contact, incorrect disposal, holding or something like that. It's just impossible. There must be a mental state among the umpires that if Hawthorn do it, since they are the perfect team, it must be legal. I'm not saying they do it on purpose, but there must be a tendency to let the close ones go their way.

Longmire only said what he could say without copping a fine, but he was clearly upset about the umpiring.

They have good relationships with each Hawthorn player. So of course they'll be more lenient.

[barry]

Hodge did a tummy punch and two sling tackles. Both sispendable things. But i bet he gets off.

[Xie Shan]

I don't think there's a real conspiracy in Hawthorn's favour, although I concede that's probably more based around a skeptic view of "surely that sort of thing doesn't really go on", but I'd be curious to know just what it is. Is it something to do with their training regime and they just have remarkable core strength across the board, so a team with JPK's ability to stand in the tackle longer seems uneven and we focus on the anomalies? Is it group think on the rest of the AFL fandom's behalf that leads us to collectively view everything as an example? Have they been trained in specific techniques that other teams need to cotton on to on how to make free kicks that could go to them appear more obvious and conceal those that should go against them?

It's probably the first game I've walked away from in a while genuinely feeling the umpiring ruined the enjoyment of it, and did find myself thinking "I kind of get the whole #freekickhawthorn thing".

I feel the same way, stella, particularly the last sentence. I don't normally complain about the umpiring but it has gotten worse this year IMO.

[shaun..]

Not sure how Brad Hill got away with 25 steps, running from D50 to the wing. That moment lost us the game, and capped a brilliant night for the (ch)umps.

[undy]

Not sure how Brad Hill got away with 25 steps, running from D50 to the wing. That moment lost us the game, and capped a brilliant night for the (ch)umps.

That was the worst for me (didn't spot the Hodge assaults)

[graemed]

For what it's worth, I thought most of the free kicks the Hawks got in the 2nd quarter were there. They may have been 50/50 calls, but Hawthorn were first to the ball most of the time in that period and that usually gets you the call. The 50M against Jack was a disgraceful call though and is the one that probably turned the game back to them. McGlynn should also have been warned first as that is what happens most of the time. You could see the umpire waiting for him to do it, rather than officiating it on its merits.

Yes the Lewis drop was bad, and other bits and pieces around the ground could have gone either way, but it's really those two 50s that stick in my craw. Having said all that, our second quarter was dismal and that's why we lost.

The warning is used only when setting the mark. McGlynn clearly infringed but did so because Hill had also infringed.
There was a comment made by the commentators on SEN that there is an obligation on the rules committee to even the scale, i.e. if a defender cannot enter the protected zone then neither should an attacker.
In other words if an attacking player enters the zone it should automatically be deemed play on.
This made remarkable sense and situations like McGlynn's where he had to guard two players without infringing on the mark would not occur.

[Cheer_Cheer]

Normally I get over this kind of treatment pretty quickly these days.. 3 days on and I am still seething. This was such a massive game for the premiership race. To give the result to one side is criminal. Horse can't say anything against this dictatorship. It ihas gone from #freekickhawthorn to #Free50mpentalyHawthorn..

[Swanny40519]

Normally I get over this kind of treatment pretty quickly these days.. 3 days on and I am still seething. This was such a massive game for the premiership race. To give the result to one side is criminal. Horse can't say anything against this dictatorship. It ihas gone from #freekickhawthorn to #Free50mpentalyHawthorn..

I am with you CC.

I have been that guttered since Thursday night I have not watched any football since then on TV. Have not even been brave enough to watch a replay.

The Hawks will have that many photos on their walls of their "favourite" umpires, they will not fit them all on.

#premiershiptohawthorn again

[Auntie.Gerald]

I wasn't going to weigh in but my most frustrating moment was the 2min in last qtr

Naismith made a break from our 50m. He was clearly ankle tapped when kicking......clear as day

No free kick given

Burgoyne picks it up and kicks a goal from 50m out

[Hotpotato]

What the Hawthorn club are doing is very successful, in business , in life!
If there isn't anything preventing it.

It's called EQ.

"Emotional intelligence (EI) or emotional quotient (EQ) is the capacity of individuals to recognize their own, and other people's emotions, to discriminate between different feelings and label them appropriately, and to use emotional information to guide thinking and behaviour."

To guide thinking and behaviour.....
The umps wouldn't buy this , but it works.
They proved it Thursday night.

[AnnieH]

I'm still bloody angry.
REALLY angry.
This is worse than losing the granny... we did that without the help of the umpires.

[crackedactor]

I wasn't going to weigh in but my most frustrating moment was the 2min in last qtr

Naismith made a break from our 50m. He was clearly ankle tapped when kicking......clear as day

No free kick given


Burgoyne picks it up and kicks a goal from 50m out

Yes I noticed the Naismith Ankle tap when I watched a replay yesterday. I also watched the K Jack 50 m penalty. It was a joke!! he was already in the area of the free kick. I also slo-mo the Rioli goal. To me it looks awfully close to Naismith touching that ball. Why was even a review called for??? Right or wrong the umps should have least called for a review. Makes you wonder how fair dinkum they really are?/

[longmile]

I'm still bloody angry.
REALLY angry.
This is worse than losing the granny... we did that without the help of the umpires.

Yep still upset.
Was a really sore loser after that one.
While we weren't perfect we were the better team who deserved the win. I genuinely feel like the umpires robbed this game from us. And to make it worse an absolute clutch game against the filthy Hawks
Really hate thinking about footy at the moment. Hopefully the game on saturday restores some personal good vibes.

[barry]

Yes I noticed the Naismith Ankle tap when I watched a replay yesterday. I also watched the K Jack 50 m penalty. It was a joke!! he was already in the area of the free kick. I also slo-mo the Rioli goal. To me it looks awfully close to Naismith touching that ball. Why was even a review called for??? Right or wrong the umps should have least called for a review. Makes you wonder how fair dinkum they really are?/

Ankle tap on Naismith. Usually not paid.
K. Jack 50 metre. technically wrong, but usually leniency is taken since it didnt interfere with the free kick.
Nainsmith touch, was definitely over the goal line.

As far as team strength goes, I dont see Hawthorn as any more danger to us than geelong or dogs, or giants, so our premiership hopes are alive.

However, I cant see us being able to address this umpire problem before the finals. It has failed to gain legs in the media for Gill to do a knee jerk reaction.

[bloodbrother]

So dirty we are out of the top four on percentage now when we should be top of the ladder no one can convince me that we were not cheated Thursday night, cannot believe that wet toast are now on the same points ,they are not even in the ballpark with the swans. Just hope we can win the rest of our games get back in top 4 and see the Dawks first week of the finals with Tippett back and a healthy list because we will need to play 20% better than them just to cover the ump bias towards them.

[annew]

I am still angry and filthy on the game from Thursday night too. Its making me madder listening to the VFL commentators say that hawks were fantastic, frees had no bearing and there is a problem at swans if they keep losing the close ones. Then to read the article on the hawks and tne close connection they have with the umpires well i am seeing red. Plus on SEN tbey are saying that hawks did it tough havjng to travel twice for finals last year. I tbought it was tound 23 and week one of finals plus how much do they travel during home and away - not much.

[Doctor J.]

Someone highlighting the ankle tap of Nankervis has got me even madder. I'd forgotten about this one no doubt its a free kick to Nank. Puopolo didn't tackle him, he dived at him and caught his ankles, clear free kick and the umpire is right there with a clear view of it and waves play on. Further evidence that we should be sitting on top of the ladder. I walked out of the Dogs game disappointed but I knew it was us who stuffed that up. This game we were ambushed.

Did not watch a single game of AFL over the weekend, watched NRL Friday night and Swans Reserves on Saturday arvo. I frankly don't care about the whole thing at the moment. Its being run by a Victorian centric administration who desperately don't want interstate success and the only real genuine chance of Vic success is to gift another flag to Hawthorn.

And for what its worth, the favouritism of the umpires extends down to the VFL team, the Box Hill hawks. Played Essendon on Saturday, Essendon won by 3 points despite the free kick count going at 25-11 in the Hawks favour.

So in 8 quarters of football this club who invented "unsociable football" has transgressed a total of 20 times. And that includes skill errors such as OOB on the full. Amazing!!!

[Sandrevan]

Geez I thought us Swans fans were better than whining and moaning about umpiring but apparently not. We didn't deserve to win that game last night and to blame umpiring 'conspiracies' is pathetic.

Did you watch the game?
The umpire bias is so blatant. How could you miss it? eg. Hodge sling tackles Sinclair whose head hits the ground and it's play on. If the Hawks won by 50 points your post would be relevant. In a very close game non-decisions do affect the result. eg Hill running >15 m before Burgoynes goal. McEvoy holding the arm of Aliir which allowed Rioli to mark uncontested - then kick a goal. If the umpiring was even the Swans would have won comfortably.
You may have noticed a lot of bitterness about the result from the posters on this thread - sore losers, a coincidence - I don't think so.

[jono2707]

Did you watch the game?
The umpire bias is so blatant. How could you miss it? eg. Hodge sling tackles Sinclair whose head hits the ground and it's play on. If the Hawks won by 50 points your post would be relevant. In a very close game non-decisions do affect the result. eg Hill running >15 m before Burgoynes goal. McEvoy holding the arm of Aliir which allowed Rioli to mark uncontested - then kick a goal. If the umpiring was even the Swans would have won comfortably.
You may have noticed a lot of bitterness about the result from the posters on this thread - sore losers, a coincidence - I don't think so.

Yes I was there - haven't watched the replay yet although I'm sure I will be aggrieved at some of the decisions.

I would expect that the club has moved on and aren't obsessing over any real or perceived umpiring issues, but are instead focusing on how to improve for the run in to the finals, especially in close pressure-filled games. I also think there might be one or two other distractions around this week.....

[Sandrevan]

Well more than 24 hours has elapsed and I am STILL bitter....Never usually lasts THAT long....Something different about it this time....

I know what you mean - I feel the same.

[crackedactor]

Exactly my sentiments Sandrevan. Whoever said blaming the umpiring was pathetic must be a hawks supporter. Its also the first time I have ever heard Longmire has a go at the umpiring. That alone says plenty.

[jono2707]

Exactly my sentiments Sandrevan. Whoever said blaming the umpiring was pathetic must be a hawks supporter.

That would be me. And no.
But I do have a begrudging admiration of a) how they've played on a number of occasions this year (inc last Thurs) to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, and b) whatever it is they are doing to be on the right side of the umpires at moments when it's mattered.

What has Longmire or anyone else involved with the club said about the umpires since Thurs night? Nothing.

[Industrial Fan]

What can they say about the umpires without being fined? Nothing.

Longmire made his point clear in the post match and it was best left there (in public at least)

[crackedactor]

What can they say about the umpires without being fined? Nothing.

Longmire made his point clear in the post match and it was best left there (in public at least)

What can Longmire say without copping a $50,000 plus fine? Though I doubt if will never see it in my lifetime, I want to see the Swans have 13 free kicks and a Victorian team have just 3 at 3/4 time and see the outcrying for all the Melbourne Papers. Trust me they will be a full investigation and please explain session.

[RogueSwan]

What can they say about the umpires without being fined? Nothing...
Well, he should have had a quick check with his boss and then said what he wanted to say. A $20-30 grand fine is nothing if it gets you a fair run through the finals, isn't it?

[Maltopia]

Well, he should have had a quick check with his boss and then said what he wanted to say. A $20-30 grand fine is nothing if it gets you a fair run through the finals, isn't it?

I thought similarly at first, but now I think the public comment would only have helped the supporters feel the club was doing something (it might be behind closed doors, but we don't know this).

I think the AFL too weak to ensure an equal playing field. Unfair/biased umpiring, COLA removal, trade ban last two years etc., are all due to there being many more members of Victorian clubs than NSW clubs, which won't really change for years to come. Even when Sydney won the flag in 2012, the increase in members was only 10,000 or so? Look at Essendon's membership numbers with all their drug related woes. Much easier to look after the VFL clubs as they have all the money.

[RogueSwan]

I thought similarly at first, but now I think the public comment would only have helped the supporters feel the club was doing something (it might be behind closed doors, but we don't know this).

I think the AFL too weak to ensure an equal playing field. Unfair/biased umpiring, COLA removal, trade ban last two years etc., are all due to there being many more members of Victorian clubs than NSW clubs, which won't really change for years to come. Even when Sydney won the flag in 2012, the increase in members was only 10,000 or so? Look at Essendon's membership numbers with all their drug related woes. Much easier to look after the VFL clubs as they have all the money.
But doesn't the tv deal need national audiences? Surely, ha!, the AFL see the need to grow the game beyond Victoria.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[Maltopia]

But doesn't the tv deal need national audiences? Surely, ha!, the AFL see the need to grow the game beyond Victoria.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

The AFL want the northern clubs to be successful, but not too muchly so. Happy for the Swans to be perennial finalists, but winning two flags in 5 years, no, get back in your box!

[jono2707]

The tin foil hats are out tonight....

[Plugger46]

One of the more laughable threads in RWO history. The whole world is out to get us clearly.

[Maltopia]

The tin foil hats are out tonight....

Hey jono2707. I am not claiming any master conspiracy. It just the odds are against us and some of the officials and umpires are unconsciously swayed and then take biased actions against the Swans unknowingly due to all the noise.

My rationale?

Many more Victorian followers who have followed the game over generations on talk back radio, in the industry etc. If something goes wrong for the Swans, who in Melbourne screams about it? But if something goes wrong for one the Melbourne clubs that benefits a northern club - it goes on and on and the AFL even if they say they are immune to bias, some will be swayed by the repeated baying that the Swans are cheaters and rorters of the COLA etc.

Victorian followers see Brisbane win three premierships in a row due aided by salary cap concessions. What happens? Victorian clubs scream blue murder, it isn't fair etc. Brisbane loses the concessions starting a decade long decline.

They see Sydney win two premierships with with COLA. The see us get Franklin and Tippett despite being near top of the ladder. They (and McGuire has publicly said this) think the system is unfair because traditional clubs like St Kilda and Melbourne are decades away from a premiership due to the help being given to the non-Victorian clubs. What happens? COLA gets phased out. We get a trading ban despite losing Mummy and Malcieski to make room for Franklin and Tippet, and also losing White, Everitt and Membrey.

We get Heeney after spending years and hundreds of thousands developing him. What happens? Victorian clubs and supporters scream and they introduce a points based system.

We get Mills after trading away our highest pick for other picks - that other clubs were willing to give us for the higher pick - to get more points to allow us to get him and some other players. Victorian clubs and supporters still not happy. What is happening? Ruminations of removing the 20% discount - though this is partly due to GWS success as well.

Let's look at just the rule changes/penalties. How many have been to the detriment to the Swans (ignoring start up concessions for GWS/GC) and how many have been to the detriment to Victorian clubs?

Now the umpiring. I am not silly enough to think the umpires are cheats. But all that noise about the Swans being rorters of the COLA, doing underhand secret deals to get Buddy and Tippett. Some of that mud sticks and I think some of the umpires are unknowingly more willing to pull up a Swans player for something than a Hawks player.

[bloodsbigot]

The tin foil hats are out tonight....

You truly sound like a Hawthorn supporter.

As soon as any notion of umpiring bias is brought up people throw around the word 'conspiracy' in order to shoot someone down.

Hardly anyone is suggesting Hawthorn pay the umpires off and there's a grand conspiracy against the swans. Although the trade ban we received doesn't exactly help the AFL apologists.

Most people are merely suggesting something is fishy when umpires go on holiday with Hawthorn players. At the very least the integrity of the competition is being compromised and the league needs to tweak their rules a bit.

[jono2707]

You truly sound like a Hawthorn supporter.


You should be banned forever - that is the worst, lowest insult you can throw at someone here ????????????

[RogueSwan]

You should be banned forever - that is the worst, lowest insult you can throw at someone here ??????

Woah, steady on, he didn't call you Gillon MacLachlan! :smile:

[crackedactor]

This sums up the current stage of play in the AFL perfectly. The outcry and accusations of Sydney cheating when we got Buddy, was heard many times over the sports radio stations. Obviously Victorian umps have taken this on notice as well. This is demoralizing to think we have to play our best to beat Hawthorn, yet they are given an arm chair ride. Its 4 flags in a row for them that will keep Gill quiet happy.

[Danzar]

Hey jono2707. I am not claiming any master conspiracy. It just the odds are against us and some of the officials and umpires are unconsciously swayed and then take biased actions against the Swans unknowingly due to all the noise.

My rationale?

Many more Victorian followers who have followed the game over generations on talk back radio, in the industry etc. If something goes wrong for the Swans, who in Melbourne screams about it? But if something goes wrong for one the Melbourne clubs that benefits a northern club - it goes on and on and the AFL even if they say they are immune to bias, some will be swayed by the repeated baying that the Swans are cheaters and rorters of the COLA etc.

Victorian followers see Brisbane win three premierships in a row due aided by salary cap concessions. What happens? Victorian clubs scream blue murder, it isn't fair etc. Brisbane loses the concessions starting a decade long decline.

They see Sydney win two premierships with with COLA. The see us get Franklin and Tippett despite being near top of the ladder. They (and McGuire has publicly said this) think the system is unfair because traditional clubs like St Kilda and Melbourne are decades away from a premiership due to the help being given to the non-Victorian clubs. What happens? COLA gets phased out. We get a trading ban despite losing Mummy and Malcieski to make room for Franklin and Tippet, and also losing White, Everitt and Membrey.

We get Heeney after spending years and hundreds of thousands developing him. What happens? Victorian clubs and supporters scream and they introduce a points based system.

We get Mills after trading away our highest pick for other picks - that other clubs were willing to give us for the higher pick - to get more points to allow us to get him and some other players. Victorian clubs and supporters still not happy. What is happening? Ruminations of removing the 20% discount - though this is partly due to GWS success as well.

Let's look at just the rule changes/penalties. How many have been to the detriment to the Swans (ignoring start up concessions for GWS/GC) and how many have been to the detriment to Victorian clubs?

Now the umpiring. I am not silly enough to think the umpires are cheats. But all that noise about the Swans being rorters of the COLA, doing underhand secret deals to get Buddy and Tippett. Some of that mud sticks and I think some of the umpires are unknowingly more willing to pull up a Swans player for something than a Hawks player.

Good post.