Match Day Rnd.4 West Coast V Sydney. Domain Stadium 20.10 pm.

[aardvark]

1809181018111812

Swans by 10 in an upset. Papley to kick 4. Go Swannies!

[Mug Punter]

Hope you are right, for the first time in years I go into a game fully expecting a loss.....

Hope to at least see the youngsters impress again and for Parker to pull his digit out and have a better game

[bloodspirit]

Getting in early, aardvark. Good work on your NEAFL thread over last weekend by the way! I thought that was an excellent effort.

A win would be excellent and not completely out of reach. Irrespective I want to see us play well! Go Bloods!!

[bloodspirit]

KB reckons tonight's match is a "crunch game" for us and that we're at the end of the road: KB's Take | End of the road looms for the Swans (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/04/12/kbs-take-or-end-of-the-road-looms-for-the-swans/). I don't follow him enough to know if he's always this daft but even if we miss finals we're clearly not at the end of the road. We're not a bunch of old has-beens but one of the youngest teams in the comp. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that this round we had the youngest team (I'm not saying we do, just saying I wouldn't be surprised). For us the future is bright. We have a lot of great players and a lot of promising players.

Not sure if this is the best place for this post but couldn't see where else to put it.

[aardvark]

Getting in early, aardvark. Good work on your NEAFL thread over last weekend by the way! I thought that was an excellent effort.

You're too kind. I did admit to stealing most of it from the NEAFL site and one simply cannot compare with Ugg who was surprisingly absent.

[dimelb]

KB is a regular on Marngrook and strikes me as generally a shrewd and fair commentator, occasionally given to overstatement and stirring. By "end of the road" I think he means gone for this season, which of course is a distinct possibility.

In response I would say there are others who are dangerous beside Buddy. Did KB notice Sam Reid's work lately? Has he lost sight of Josh? Did he register the youngsters kicking goals? Like others, I'm expecting a loss tonight, but we can still leave a mark on the competition and are more likely to do so as our injured reclaim their spot in the team. As we know, at full strength and playing to our capacity we are capable of beating anyone, but at present we'll just have to be patient. We can still enjoy the ride.

[ScottH]

You're too kind. I did admit to stealing most of it from the NEAFL site and one simply cannot compare with Ugg who was surprisingly absent.

He is on hols.

[bloodspirit]

Yes, it goes without saying that ugg's NEAFL posts are nonpareil.

- - - Updated - - -


He is on hols.

Did nobody tell him the season has started? Aren't holidays what the off-season is for? Next you'll be saying he has a wife and family.

[Cosmic Psycho]

G'Day. First post here.

Personally, I'm hoping to see the boys pick up in the areas they are significantly lacking from previous years. Contested footy; tackles; clearances. The effort part of the game. I think we still have a good defence that can halt the likes of Kennedy tonight, but it needs to be a full game. I think we saw a shift last week (apart from the first quarter) and hopefully they build on that tonight, and moving forward, of course.

[ScottH]

Yes, it goes without saying that ugg's NEAFL posts are nonpareil.

- - - Updated - - -



Did nobody tell him the season has started? Aren't holidays what the off-season is for? Next you'll be saying he has a wife and family.

LOL. not sure about the latter.
Some places we visit require us to go at a certain time of year.
I'm guilty of taking holidays during the season and in September. I've missed some finals, but they were the ones I don't ever want to see anyway, but no GF's.

[aardvark]

G'Day. First post here.

Welcome aboard. With a name like that you'll fit in well here.:wink:

[wolftone57]

KB reckons tonight's match is a "crunch game" for us and that we're at the end of the road: KB's Take | End of the road looms for the Swans (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/04/12/kbs-take-or-end-of-the-road-looms-for-the-swans/). I don't follow him enough to know if he's always this daft but even if we miss finals we're clearly not at the end of the road. We're not a bunch of old has-beens but one of the youngest teams in the comp. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that this round we had the youngest team (I'm not saying we do, just saying I wouldn't be surprised). For us the future is bright. We have a lot of great players and a lot of promising players.

Not sure if this is the best place for this post but couldn't see where else to put it.

We would pretty well be the youngest I would think. to say we are at the end of the road is just stupidity. We have a really talented and strong group of youngsters who will be far better next year than today. We have a core group of developing players who are soon will be hitting 50 games all at once. We still have a strong core group of experienced players, abate under-performing. This is the crux of the matter. The senior players not performing this year compared to the past.

For us to win several things must fall into place;

1. We must play as a cohesive unit. This so far has been seeming impossible to do. We have had periods where this has happened but not a consistently long period.

2. We have to stop the drifting in and out of games and tapering off. This could be due to our youth but I am not convinced this is the only factor. Last year we had some games where we played a lot of youth and we weren't inconsistent. The other factor is that it isn't just the likes of Ollie who fade out of the game it is also the senior players. That tells me there is something wrong with the leadership group and their will to the contest.

3. We have to win the clearances and stoppages. Winning the stoppages is going to be almost impossible with Sinclair and Reid as our ruckmen. But the clearances can be won off their ruck. But our mids actually have to turn up first. The coaches have to design better set ups as they have been dreadful so far. The players positioning at centre bounces has been terrible and just allows the opposition to get easy clearances. Add to that the terrible form of our mids and we have disaster.

4. Our forward set up has to be more cohesive. Players must work together, spread and lead. The mids must stop just kicking to Bud and Reidy. Reid going into the ruck is a huge problem and robs our forward line of any tall structure. it also gives the opposition lots of room to move defensively. Bad move Longmire, Reid in the ruck has always been a disaster. We would have been better off bringing in Talia or Melican and putting Aliir in the ruck.

5. Our defense has to hold up. The defense has been a very weak area this year. They have been exposed due to a weak, under-performing midfield and have been badly exposed. Add to that the poor form of Reg and Smithy and the erratic form of Marsh and Mills and you have a disaster waiting to happen. They are also not playing as a unit and the movement out of defense is random, not cohesive at all. It is as though the senior players are playing together and the youth is a bit excluded or not trusted. Even then the players look at times disinterested, slow and unready to do the hard yards. If the defense is marshalled and there is a general directing them it will work. But so far the usual general, Reg, has failed to direct. both Reg and Smithy seem to be more worried about their own form, which is understandable. But that doesn't help the younger players. Reg cam back into a bit of form last week but Smithy is a worry. he needs to play well this week as the Eagles smalls do kick goals if their opponent is not tight enough. Last week smithy was 5 to 10 metres off Fassolo on many occasions in the first half. He can't allow the Eagles smalls this amount of space.

6. the coaching has to be more innovative with the new talent we have. They need to design tactics that suit the new guys and use them this week or we will be in trouble. always play to your strengths and use the abilities and skills sets of your workers. This is the challenge our coaches are going to have this weekend and into the future. If you base your game on past concepts and don't change that game plan you are going to get caught out and that is exactly what is happening. we could blame having too many young players etc etc. But I think that each time we have looked like getting a run the opposition coaches change tactics to negate our game plan. They play a style we don't particularly like, the short kicking game. that is because we always set up about 10 metres off our opponents, a part of our game plan, this is far too far if their delivery, like Collingwood last week, is very good. The opposition are less pressured and they get easy kicks. This is what Hawks did to us every time and it seems every team is doing it now and Longmire seems to have no answer. he needs to develop one very soon otherwise we won't be 0-5, we will be 0-9.

[Blue Sun]

The Swans have lead in the final quarter in 2 of their 3 losses - despite fielding a desperately undermanned and inexperienced side. Although the boys will be 0 and 5 before a win is registered, I still expect them to make the 8 given that Rampe, McVeigh, Tippett, Rohan and Papley are still to return. Rampe and McVeigh alone will sure up the "leaky" defence.

And just a heads up for tonight: go into the game expecting a shellacking and a rough deal from the umpires - it will save you some heartache.

[Untamed Snark]

I'm expecting the boys will play well.
And that momentum will be killed again and again by the dumpires

[dimelb]

... They play a style we don't particularly like, the short kicking game. that is because we always set up about 10 metres off our opponents, a part of our game plan, this is far too far if their delivery, like Collingwood last week, is very good. The opposition are less pressured and they get easy kicks. This is what Hawks did to us every time and it seems every team is doing it now and Longmire seems to have no answer. he needs to develop one very soon otherwise we won't be 0-5, we will be 0-9.

Drives me nuts. Probably the only thing that still has me yelling at the TV.

[wolftone57]

Drives me nuts. Probably the only thing that still has me yelling at the TV.

Drives me nuts too. Has me despairing at games because I can't swear for fear of being kicked out. At home I swear at the telly regularly. The other thing that really pisses me off is the stoppages set ups. bloody dreadful this year. Just a disaster waiting to happen. Josh Francou has to do something different as this is not working in a monumental way. If you look at clearance figures they show we are 17th I think. Terrible. I scream at Horse but to no avail.

[Aaron]

I was disappointed and nervous of another defeat. However, after reading this article from Tony Armstrong ( Footy has a way of getting back into your heart - AFL Players (http://www.aflplayers.com.au/article/footy-has-a-way-of-getting-back-into-your-heart/) ), I am excited again. Go Swans!

[RogueSwan]

I was disappointed and nervous of another defeat. However, after reading this article from Tony Armstrong ( Footy has a way of getting back into your heart - AFL Players (http://www.aflplayers.com.au/article/footy-has-a-way-of-getting-back-into-your-heart/) ), I am excited again. Go Swans!

Awesome find Aaron (probably deserves it own thread).
Glad to see Tony is still a fan after his ups and (mainly) downs as a professional footballer.

[bloodspirit]

I was disappointed and nervous of another defeat. However, after reading this article from Tony Armstrong ( Footy has a way of getting back into your heart - AFL Players (http://www.aflplayers.com.au/article/footy-has-a-way-of-getting-back-into-your-heart/) ), I am excited again. Go Swans!

Thanks for sharing the link! That is a brave article by Tony. It takes guts to display your vulnerability. And he makes some good points. Leaves me feeling slightly guilty about the crap we pour on underperformers. You have to remember they are utterly devoted to the game, trying their best and far more skilled than most players will ever be. You have to be really elite and dedicated to make a decent career at AFL level. The players get to enjoy extraordinary salaries and the joy of playing the game they love with their mates but apart from that the costs are really high. Players are treated ruthlessly by clubs and other stakeholders in this professional era. While Tony didn't wind up being good enough at the highest level, seeing him play often brought a smile to my face. I hope he can rediscover his joy for the game - not just watching but also playing. And, naturally, I'm delighted he still barracks for the Bloods!

[dimelb]

Thanks for sharing the link! That is a brave article by Tony. It takes guts to display your vulnerability. And he makes some good points. Leaves me feeling slightly guilty about the crap we pour on underperformers. You have to remember they are utterly devoted to the game, trying their best and far more skilled than most players will ever be. You have to be really elite and dedicated to make a decent career at AFL level. The players get to enjoy extraordinary salaries and the joy of playing the game they love with their mates but apart from that the costs are really high. Players are treated ruthlessly by clubs and other stakeholders in this professional era. While Tony didn't wind up being good enough at the highest level, seeing him play often brought a smile to my face. I hope he can rediscover his joy for the game - not just watching but also playing. And, naturally, I'm delighted he still barracks for the Bloods!

I second the emotion!

[Industrial Fan]

Expect us to get wiped badly tonight.

Too many senior players out or out of form.

Generally speaking I enjoy the game more with low expectations so winners either way.

[aardvark]

Just to get the juices flowing before the game tonight, this is a must watch. Tissues required, enjoy!

The gripping rivalry: Eagles v Swans - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/video/2017-04-13/the-gripping-rivalry-eagles-v-swans)

[annew]

Just to get the juices flowing before the game tonight, this is a must watch. Tissues required, enjoy!

The gripping rivalry: Eagles v Swans - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/video/2017-04-13/the-gripping-rivalry-eagles-v-swans)

Something more determined about the team during that era than what there is now.

[Foreign Legion]

Chick to Hunter in 2006 GF - was that the footy or contraband?

[Hotpotato]

We would pretty well be the youngest I would think. to say we are at the end of the road is just stupidity. We have a really talented and strong group of youngsters who will be far better next year than today. We have a core group of developing players who are soon will be hitting 50 games all at once. We still have a strong core group of experienced players, abate under-performing. This is the crux of the matter. The senior players not performing this year compared to the past.

For us to win several things must fall into place;

1. We must play as a cohesive unit. This so far has been seeming impossible to do. We have had periods where this has happened but not a consistently long period.

2. We have to stop the drifting in and out of games and tapering off. This could be due to our youth but I am not convinced this is the only factor. Last year we had some games where we played a lot of youth and we weren't inconsistent. The other factor is that it isn't just the likes of Ollie who fade out of the game it is also the senior players. That tells me there is something wrong with the leadership group and their will to the contest.

3. We have to win the clearances and stoppages. Winning the stoppages is going to be almost impossible with Sinclair and Reid as our ruckmen. But the clearances can be won off their ruck. But our mids actually have to turn up first. The coaches have to design better set ups as they have been dreadful so far. The players positioning at centre bounces has been terrible and just allows the opposition to get easy clearances. Add to that the terrible form of our mids and we have disaster.

4. Our forward set up has to be more cohesive. Players must work together, spread and lead. The mids must stop just kicking to Bud and Reidy. Reid going into the ruck is a huge problem and robs our forward line of any tall structure. it also gives the opposition lots of room to move defensively. Bad move Longmire, Reid in the ruck has always been a disaster. We would have been better off bringing in Talia or Melican and putting Aliir in the ruck.

5. Our defense has to hold up. The defense has been a very weak area this year. They have been exposed due to a weak, under-performing midfield and have been badly exposed. Add to that the poor form of Reg and Smithy and the erratic form of Marsh and Mills and you have a disaster waiting to happen. They are also not playing as a unit and the movement out of defense is random, not cohesive at all. It is as though the senior players are playing together and the youth is a bit excluded or not trusted. Even then the players look at times disinterested, slow and unready to do the hard yards. If the defense is marshalled and there is a general directing them it will work. But so far the usual general, Reg, has failed to direct. both Reg and Smithy seem to be more worried about their own form, which is understandable. But that doesn't help the younger players. Reg cam back into a bit of form last week but Smithy is a worry. he needs to play well this week as the Eagles smalls do kick goals if their opponent is not tight enough. Last week smithy was 5 to 10 metres off Fassolo on many occasions in the first half. He can't allow the Eagles smalls this amount of space.

6. the coaching has to be more innovative with the new talent we have. They need to design tactics that suit the new guys and use them this week or we will be in trouble. always play to your strengths and use the abilities and skills sets of your workers. This is the challenge our coaches are going to have this weekend and into the future. If you base your game on past concepts and don't change that game plan you are going to get caught out and that is exactly what is happening. we could blame having too many young players etc etc. But I think that each time we have looked like getting a run the opposition coaches change tactics to negate our game plan. They play a style we don't particularly like, the short kicking game. that is because we always set up about 10 metres off our opponents, a part of our game plan, this is far too far if their delivery, like Collingwood last week, is very good. The opposition are less pressured and they get easy kicks. This is what Hawks did to us every time and it seems every team is doing it now and Longmire seems to have no answer. he needs to develop one very soon otherwise we won't be 0-5, we will be 0-9.

It's all good, Dunno if the coaching staff have time to read it all ....
it nearly put me to sleep.

Just play with the old Kelly mongrel , get the pill and deliver to someone !

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Just want to see some fast ( ball or foot) speed and more then 55 I50s for the game.

Dont mind losing but need to play modern football.

The rules are different, most of the breaks go to the attacking teams.

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[rb4x]

I see Darling is out for WC and Schofield now in.

[Aaron]

LATE CHANGES
West Coast: Jack Darling (ankle) replaced in selected side by Will Schofield
Sydney: Nil

FINAL INTERCHANGES
West Coast: Brad Sheppard, Chris Masten, Josh Hill, Jack Redden
Sydney: Harry Cunningham, Oliver Florent, Nic Newman, George Hewett

[ugg]

I see Darling is out for WC and Schofield now in.

McGovern to go forward then

[Wazza]

Ive never done this before WC by 40+
There done it.

Cheers

waz

[dejavoodoo44]

Hoping to be pleasantly surprised tonight. While we do have an under strength side, we do have a good recent record against the flying high mob. Also looking forward to seeing how Papley goes. I would assume that he has been training really well, or he wouldn't have been rushed back into the side. And it will be interesting to see how he and Hayward go, crumbing Buddy and Reid.
Actually, that's one thing that I've never really thought about, in all my years watching Aussie Rules: do small forwards get assigned to work together with a particular larger forward? As an example, would it be the job of Papley, to spend most of the night working with Buddy, and alternatively, would it be the main task of Hayward, to stick close to Reid? Or would be the general game plan for the smalls to lead into space and then try to get back to the talls if the ball spills, or if they need a quick handball option?

[WauchopeAnalyst]

PS: No bombing into front 50. If we do that then Mcgovern will take 20. marks

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[Mel_C]

Hopefully we actually come to play in the first quarter this week!

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[mcs]

Hopefully we actually come to play in the first quarter this week!

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I'll be very happy if we just play 4 good quarters of footy tonight - even if we get beat comfortably in the end. Just give it a red hot go. Like Freo did last weekend, and look what happened there!

[Blue Sun]

WC by 48 points (25-10 free kicks)

[Foreign Legion]

Hayward looking very skillful

Until the ump gives them a free of course

[Markwebbos]

Swans come to play

[Blue Sun]

Caught with the ball, incorrect disposal? Not in WA.

[Markwebbos]

Caught with the ball, incorrect disposal? Not in WA.

+1

- - - Updated - - -

Grundy WTF

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Wow. Wow. Wow.

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[Foreign Legion]

Inside 50's 7 to 1 - they goal

[Blue Sun]

Two absolutely SHOCKING disposals from Grundy gift the Eagles a goal, after all of the play we are behind. Absolutely terrible.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

More wow. Trying to be positive. ..

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[Mel_C]

Why do our defenders always handpass to a teammate with an opponent right on them??

Skills letting us down again.

Pressure is fantastic...We need to score though!!

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[Blue Sun]

Painful to watch, silly hospital hand passes our undoing after owning the majority of the quarter.

[Auntie.Gerald]

One word

Brittle

[mcs]

Poor decision making from both grundy amd aa has hurt badly after a decent start

[Foreign Legion]

Every score to them from Swans f-ups

[troyjones2525]

3 turnovers for 2 goals 1. That hurts!

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[Gary]

5 minutes of effort then quickly reverting to school boy errors ... even Kennedy ... decision making looks like they are not coached at all!

[Industrial Fan]

Parker stinking it up early

[WauchopeAnalyst]

See what happens when a coach tries be cute. Be creative. Try your luck.

It takes a lot more then a week.

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[WauchopeAnalyst]

Harry does have a role. Easily disposed the defender. Nice work.

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[mcs]

Well done Cunningham - good to see him get stuck in in a contested mark!

[Markwebbos]

Cunningham was really good there. It's all Swans apart from the hideous turnovers

[Foreign Legion]

I was about to say we will get a HTB free kick against them when the Sun goes Red Dwarf - then Cunningham took a contested mark!

[111431]

He's not so bad that no7

[Markwebbos]

Sinclair's been ok too. Really liking the Swans so far.

[Industrial Fan]

Umpiring our way imo. Thought Marsh was lucky not to give one away in front of goal

[Markwebbos]

Seriously Swans dominating that Q

[Cosmic Wizard]

Sinclair's been ok too. Really liking the Swans so far.

Agreed! If he keep this up i will have to redraw a lot of negative comments about him!

[Foreign Legion]

Much better first qtr than last week!

Not great, but if we can keep the pressure on we are a chance.

I have a been a Foote disparager but he is doing pretty well on Mitchell. The proof will be in the pudding.

[mcs]

Seriously Swans dominating that Q

Disappoitning we aren't a couple of goals up, we deserve to be after a very decent first quarter.

We are having a real crack, going hard and creating problems for West Coast. If we can keep it up for 4 quarters we can win. Disappointing miss from Hayward at the end - appeared to just stab at the kick a bit (Plugger get on it!)

We even got a couple of generous umpiring decisions as well- maybe they felt they needed to even up for that absurd non call of HTB with the Fox tackle 10 metres out!

[dejavoodoo44]

Good first quarter, should be in front. Hopefully we can keep the pressure up and hit a few more targets. Which may tire the Weagles.

[mcs]

Much better first qtr than last week!

Not great, but if we can keep the pressure on we are a chance.

I have a been a Foote disparager but he is doing pretty well on Mitchell. The proof will be in the pudding.

Has done well tagging him so far. If we can keep Mitchell to 20 touches over the game, he will have done very well.

[Industrial Fan]

West coast looking dangerous when Grundy has the ball

[Markwebbos]

Whatever WCE did at Q time is working

[Foreign Legion]

We are going to be outgunned here, but they are @@@@ at best.

[mcs]

The effort is most definitely there.

[RogueSwan]

We have been very lucky that a lot of the Weagles handballs are just not clean enough. They should have strung a number of runs through the middle in this second quarter.

[Markwebbos]

Finally Parkers playing OK

[Foreign Legion]

Would be surprised if Mitchell comes back on.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Harry has finally realised that you just have to hard occasionally.

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[Markwebbos]

Cunningham tackle watch = 5

[mcs]

They could pay that 50 for over the mark 1000 times in a season...

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Cmon KJ. Your on the mark and then you decide to take 2 more steps and 50.

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[mcs]

What was that nick smith....

[Industrial Fan]

Grundy taken the stinkbaton from Parker comfortably

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Our defenders are killing us. Nearly all goals are defender turnovers.

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[Markwebbos]

Cmon Paps

[Foreign Legion]

Hmm Hurn on Florent - may as well give it away.

And here we go Eagles - crowd up and about.

[Gary]

That was simply pathetic by several players...going to bed.

[Mel_C]

Too many turnovers costing us!

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[Southern Swan15]

Smith and grundy.... god u r driving me nuts

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[Markwebbos]

Is Sam Mitchell a replicant?

[mcs]

We are just not clean enough when the ball is hot - had multiple chances to get clean posession in the lead up to that goal.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Fly past spoil. No body. Jumps on wrong leg.

His knee should have gone through Lecras and barely touched him.

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[Foreign Legion]

The Eagles fans sound like someone has stolen a mining boom off them when they dont get a soft free kick.

Frees 8-12 against us at half time - as usual.

[mcs]

Lots of good effort from the team, they are having a real dig. But our skills are hurting us, and the absolutely silly turnovers in the back half are killing us big time. Coming from experienced guys as well which is disappointing.

Nice to see Harry C having a proper dig tonight and getting in and going for the tough ball. 6 tackles as well so far.

[Foreign Legion]

Anyone know what is wrong with Hannebery? He must be injured

[bodgie]

Smith is not the player he was. Grundy starting the season as he often does. Missing Rampe badly.

[dejavoodoo44]

Is Sam Mitchell a replicant?
Don't know, but Hurn seems to have an invisibility cloak, as far as the umpires are concerned.

[Foreign Legion]

I reckon if we had Rampe we'd be in front now.

[Flying South]

Cunningham tackle watch = 5
Leading tackler on the field. Nice effort

[mcs]

Anyone know what is wrong with Hannebery? He must be injured

Certainly is not looking 100%. We have plenty already though that don't look anywhere near 100%. Him, Parker, Jack all look not completely fit.

[Nico]

Poor disposal selection and poor kicking is letting us down.

- - - Updated - - -


Lots of good effort from the team, they are having a real dig. But our skills are hurting us, and the absolutely silly turnovers in the back half are killing us big time. Coming from experienced guys as well which is disappointing.

Nice to see Harry C having a proper dig tonight and getting in and going for the tough ball. 6 tackles as well so far.

But he doesn't put his body on the line when it is his turn. Just dances around the pack. Have a go son.

[Mug Punter]

Aliir is making way too many errors for my liking.

Papley back is helping but I can see us getting run over in the second half if we don't smarten up our act. Jack and Hanners need to lift for us to have any chance

[Nico]

Cunningham tackle watch = 5

Second to the ball.

[crackedactor]

Smith is not the player he was. Grundy starting the season as he often does. Missing Rampe badly.Backline is a sham, no organization, lost without Rampe or McVeigh. Cannot believe this is the same side as last year. Some skill errors are frightening for this level.

[mcs]

Poor disposal selection and poor kicking is letting us down.

- - - Updated - - -



But he doesn't put his body on the line when it is his turn. Just dances around the pack. Have a go son.

Most games I completely agree Nico - but I've counted at least 3 times where he has gone hard in contested circumstances. Needs to happen every time though.

Marsh has been our most reliable defender tonight so far, which says something.

[Cosmic Wizard]

Smith is not the player he was. Grundy starting the season as he often does. Missing Rampe badly.

Afraid so! But will horse drop him?

He is playing really badly and it doesn't seem to be getting better!

[MattW]

Anyone know what is wrong with Hannebery? He must be injured

Reckon it's confidence/in his head.

[Auntie.Gerald]

HarryC doing well in comparison

[MattW]

Certainly is not looking 100%. We have plenty already though that don't look anywhere near 100%. Him, Parker, Jack all look not completely fit.

But Parker has done everything he can. Best game this season, easily.

[Nico]

Mills not doing much.

[RogueSwan]

.... But he doesn't put his body on the line when it is his turn. Just dances around the pack. Have a go son.
Yep, everyone should go the for the ball and just watch as it goes to the unmarked Weagle on the outside.
I think you are so set on rubbishing Cunningham you can't turn back now, even when other can see he is playing well. Definitely not bottom six tonight.

[707]

Couple of blatant frees not paid for us is pissing me off. Hurn on Florent, did I see that wrong?

Liking the endeavour, decision making and skills hurting us.

[mcs]

But Parker has done everything he can. Best game this season, easily.

Certainly not a lack of effort on any part - and Parker improved in the 2nd half last week, and his first half was ok this week. Hopefully whatever the issue is with his knee, it is starting to settle down.

[RogueSwan]

Reckon it's confidence/in his head.

Or is it that teams have worked out no Hanners -> no Swans and are putting in a lot of effort to stop him?

[MattW]

Second to the ball.

Harsh. He's been effective.

[Velour&Ruffles]

Our defenders are killing us. Nearly all goals are defender turnovers.

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At half time, only 5.4 of their total 5.9 has come from turnovers.

[mcs]

Couple of blatant frees not paid for us is pissing me off. Hurn on Florent, did I see that wrong?

Liking the endeavour, decision making and skills hurting us.

Yep that was as clear as day that one.... but we've had a fairly good run so far with umpires, considering we are playing in perth. That missed HTB with Fox in the first half was a very poor missed free though.

The endeavour is great, but skills and decision making are really hurting us, especially the ongoing brainfarts in the backline.

[bodgie]

As someone mentioned. The backline is a rabble. Well intentioned and committed but panicked

[Velour&Ruffles]

At half time, only 5.4 of their total 5.9 has come from turnovers.

"only"

[mcs]

And terrible decision making gives away a goal within 30 seconds....

[troyjones2525]

This is going to get ugly...

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[mcs]

Every game this season we have been giving away goals like that last one, where the opposition just has men standing free with no swan in cooee - just where do our guys disappear too.

[Foreign Legion]

Sam Reid needs to develop another string to his bow - you can't mark everything.

[mcs]

Good goal there - some decent decision making and well executed skills. Come on boys!

[Foreign Legion]

I wish big John Candy was there when Buddy kicked that - could have re-imagined Micky.

[Markwebbos]

Two goals completely against the run of play there!

[mcs]

Who was on him.....

Our turnovers are killing us. Florent needed to go long

[Markwebbos]

Game on?

[mcs]

Good kick Hayward.

[Markwebbos]

[QUOTE Our turnovers are killing us. Florent needed to go long[/QUOTE]

+1

[Mel_C]

Who was on him.....

Our turnovers are killing us. Florent needed to go long
I yelled the exact same thing to the tv!

47 of their points have come from our turnovers :(.

Hayward goal! Jack is so much better in the centre.

Every time the ball bounces or is spoiled it goes straight to the Eagles. We have no luck!

[mcs]

Why play on grundy when there was nothing on at all..... so poor from a senior player.

[RogueSwan]

Again defence has been poor but when the ball is coming in so easy through the middle not many back lines could stop the scoring we are seeing.

[Foreign Legion]

Jesus - we can not read them when they have the ball - they stop, and baulk straight around us.

[mcs]

Our tackling quality is terrible at the moment - partially a product of lots of young guys but we arent anywhere near sticking enough of them.

[Foreign Legion]

How was that not HTB against Priddis!!!

[mcs]

How was that not HTB against Priddis!!!

Because the rule is a joke now...

[mcs]

Hayward could be some player, his positioning in marking contests is good for such a young player.

[Markwebbos]

What happened to kicking in danger? Couple of times Swans went to pick ball up and WCE kicked it out of their hands

- - - Updated - - -

WHY WASNT THAT 50?

[mcs]

What happened to kicking in danger? Couple of times Swans went to pick ball up and WCE kicked it out of their hands

- - - Updated - - -

WHY WASNT THAT 50?

Haha paying a 50 against Mitchell - get real....

[Foreign Legion]

Damn, if we had this amount of ball with a good side in we would be in front by 6 goals. Eagles are pathetic - may not win any games away this year.

[Nico]

Is was as bigger howler that an umpire could make not giving 50. But why didn't the non officiating umpire pay the free. They pay others from 100 metres away. Gutless all round. Did the clown make up for it with a soft free to Hewett.

Unfortunately our finishing is still poor.

[Mel_C]

Every other day that would have been 50. There is no excuse for that.

Had our chances at the end of the quarter but couldn't convert.

Buddy looks really sore :(.

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[RogueSwan]

Every game this season we have been giving away goals like that last one, where the opposition just has men standing free with no swan in cooee - just where do our guys disappear too.
Are we missing Macca's on field leadership more than we thought? All the pointing may not have been in vein, contrary to many RWOers thoughts.

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[Markwebbos]

Insight 50 36:34
Contested possessions 117:116
Tackles 58:56

[Foreign Legion]

Try Mills at CHF - worth a go I reckon. Mobile and reads the play well. Don't ask me who takes his place in defence...

Hayward looking OK - in fact he is doing more than Florent atm.

[111431]

Midfield missing in action again

[Nico]

Every other day that would have been 50. There is no excuse for that.

Had our chances at the end of the quarter but couldn't convert.

Buddy looks really sore :(.

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Mitchell almost pulled up, then took off and kicked!!!!!!!!!!!

[mcs]

What happened to kicking in danger? Couple of times Swans went to pick ball up and WCE kicked it out of their hands

- - - Updated - - -

WHY WASNT THAT 50?

On the point of kicking in danger, welcome to the future of AFL. With prior disposal/holding the ball rules in disarray, we will see more nad more of this, as players become more and more unwilling to go hard for the ball.

[Markwebbos]

Jones on the ball would be a good idea

[dejavoodoo44]

We seemed to have missed the memo that deliberate out of bounds won't be paid tonight. Except if a lumbering ruckman kicks it off the side of his boot.

[mcs]

Cracking kick Hayward - this kid can play....

[Meg]

Are we missing Macca's on field leadership more than we thought? All the pointing may not have been in vein, contrary to many RWOers thoughts.

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I believe so.

[neilfws]

Damn, if we had this amount of ball with a good side in we would be in front by 6 goals. Eagles are pathetic - may not win any games away this year.

This is the saddest thing for me. Eagles are ordinary at best. Full strength, we'd bury them. Same with Pies last week, all they had to do to win was be competent.

[mcs]

We are getting on top , must take our chances.

[Markwebbos]

What has happened to Jack?

[mcs]

What has happened to Jack?

He is either not fit or is cooked.

[Wardy]

Our turn overs are killing us!!

[Markwebbos]

He is either not fit or is cooked.

Skills too but

- - - Updated - - -

Cmon SWANS!!!!

[mcs]

Great kick lloydy - got some luck in there but it was justified on the basis of two clear frees we didnt get.

- - - Updated - - -

@@@@ grundy - cant hit a teammate right in front of him :(

[DNJ500]

Umpires do it again...

[Industrial Fan]

Sinclair is spent

[mcs]

Umpires do it again...

I loved the 'handball' in the middle also.......

[bodgie]

hmmm

- - - Updated - - -

we're roasted

[DA_Swan]

Heath Grundy cant hit a target again !!!~

[Cosmic Wizard]

Sinclair is spent

paps is totally spent; bad move bringing in a unfit player

[Markwebbos]

7 tackles for Cunningham

[Foreign Legion]

Anyone got a free kick count over there - just joking!

EDIT

That is why they dont win at the MCG or anywhere else - they get the biggest armchair ride ever.

Has not cost us the game but jeez they are bloody ordinary.

[Nolie]

Anyone got a free kick count over there - just joking!

The free kicks to the west coast in this last quarter is a joke. Corrupt

[troyjones2525]

Our skills and decision making are laughable! I can't believe some of these blokes call themselves professional footballers...

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[Faunac8]

23-14 against the swans probably 4 at least we got were square ups

[Mug Punter]

Season over!!

[troyjones2525]

And I can't wait to hear Longmire's press conference to hear him spewing out the same old @@@@@...

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[Blue Sun]

And I can't wait to hear Longmire's press conference with him spewing out the same old @@@@@...

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Undermanned. We'll be right when we get close to a full side back.

[Foreign Legion]

Ah THAT is FIFTY!

See we were wrong all along!

[Boddo]

Umpiring as per usual is pathetic. I don't know what's worse the umpiring or the Eagles supporters. Having lived over here for a number of years if you listened to the supporters n thought of them in academic terms you would quickly come to the conclusion that they are illiterate.

[Foreign Legion]

And I can't wait to hear Longmire's press conference to hear him spewing out the same old @@@@@...

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GF seriously

[DNJ500]

Umpiring as per usual is pathetic. I don't know what's worse the umpiring or the Eagles supporters. Having lived over here for a number of years if you listened to the supporters n thought of them in academic terms you would quickly come to the conclusion that they are illiterate.

Oh I know that from experience also...

[WauchopeAnalyst]

3 more years of Longmire rubbish. The no-forward strategy. One trick pony coach. We have the ball on the 50m forward line and we have 11 players within 15m and no-one wthin 30m of the goal. Go to the bigfooty sydney board and look at the photo. That is Longmire to a tee.

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[Cosmic Wizard]

Our skills and decision making are laughable! I can't believe some of these blokes call themselves professional footballers...

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The Swans remind me of Richmond last year.

Total lack of skills, turnovers, players should not have got a game (Foote, Smith, Paps, Aliir), so call stars really just hacks (Jack).

What is Rohan injury anyway?

[troyjones2525]

Undermanned. We'll be right when we get close to a full side back.
Our senior players have been the main culprits of doing what I said!

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[Faunac8]

Can't believe what a poorly disciplined side we must be. If we are averaging about 1.6 frees against for every 1 we receive we don't deserve to be in finals contention. The AFL doesn't want a team that is 60% dirtier than its opposition playing finals.

[troyjones2525]

GF seriously
Just keep blaming the umpires for our losses mate...

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[Blue Sun]

3 more years of Longmire rubbish. The no-forward strategy. One trick pony coach. We have the ball on the 50m forward line and we have 11 players within 15m and no-one wthin 30m of the goal. Go to the bigfooty sydney board and look at the photo. That is Longmire to a tee.

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That one trick pony coach has landed the Swans a flag and 3 GF appearances. It would have been 2 flags had the umpires not been biased, give him some credit.

[DNJ500]

Allir totally lost after quarter one....

[Foreign Legion]

Just keep blaming the umpires for our losses mate...

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I am not blaming them for this loss "mate"

Just curious that I can't remember one game over there were we have got more frees.

[Cosmic Wizard]

Florent - just can't see it?

We gave up two picks for him?

There Powell Pepper, Parifitt, so many other rookie players who are making a real impact,

He needs a some time in the seconds, him and Mills.

Both look dazed.

[mcs]

What is Rohan injury anyway?

Who knows - but it'll keep him out 5 times as long as it would any other player out there, he just can't for the life of it stay injury free.

[bodgie]

I still don't understand our lack of forward line. Jones does a run when we need it, then has to stop and kick to a Coaster

[mcs]

Florent - just can't see it?

We gave up two picks for him?

There Powell Pepper, Parifitt, so many other rookie players who are making a real impact,

He needs a some time in the seconds, him and Mills.

Both look dazed.

Mills has an awfully bad case of second year blues at the moment. Get him out of defence for mine. It worked last year, but with the broader unit playing like a bunch of drunken sailors, it is not helping him one bit. Its not like he could contribute any less in the midfield as he is down back.

[Nico]

Smith did a good job on Le Cras but gave 3 goals from horrible kicking turnovers.

That was the story of our game. That Newman kick into the centre was a perfect example.

[bodgie]

Mills dazed. exactly. At one point I thought he looked like a lost rabbit in the headlights

[111431]

Mills can have a rest in the seconds - way too slow

[bodgie]

Still, with Rampe, Heeney, Tippet et al we could easy be 3-1

[troyjones2525]

I am not blaming them for this loss "mate"

Just curious that I can't remember one game over there were we have got more frees.
You would be hard pressed to find them ever losing a free kick count at home, that's to be expected with the vocal crowd. Our problem wasn't the umpires (although it didn't help), it was the poor decision making and skills by too many so called "senior" players.

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[Mel_C]

Can't blame the coach for that. Look at all the turnovers that cost us. The coach doesn't kick the ball.

Can't fault their endeavour this week. We are just not clean with the ball.

Hopefully Buddy isn't too bad. His movement was really impacted.

GWS next week...oh dear.

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[Boddo]

Florent - just can't see it?

We gave up two picks for him?

There Powell Pepper, Parifitt, so many other rookie players who are making a real impact,

He needs a some time in the seconds, him and Mills.

Both look dazed.

How did we give up 2 picks. We traded Mitchell for a 1st round pick n then upgraded.

If Sydney wanted Powel Pepper we don't get Hayward n I'd take Hayward every day of the week.

It's the long game with recently drafted kids, not short term.

Mills looks like 2nd year blues to me. Needs some freedom in the midfield if we could take him away from half back.

[Foreign Legion]

And I can't wait to hear Longmire's press conference to hear him spewing out the same old @@@@@...

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Here is his record:
Longmire, John SY 2011-2017 93 2 40 135 69.63

That is 93 wins 40 losses up to the start of this year.

Who would you pick to replace him?

[Faunac8]

Not blaming the umpires but when you only get 6 free kicks for every 10 the opposition gets it has an impact Our current side is not good enough to beat the teams in the top half of the ladder and while getting experience into our young players is great for our long term success it's creating too much pressure at this stage of the season.

[troyjones2525]

Here is his record:
Longmire, JohnSY2011-20179324013569.63

That is 93 wins 40 losses up to the start of this year.

Who would you pick to replace him?
Clarkson if you want me to choose...

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[Swannette]

For a lauded full back Grundy has an awful lot of really bad kicks. He wasnt alone. And such poor decision making from so many. Sigh.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Was embarrassed in 2014 GF, worst effort in 10 years, great coaching and leadership. Injuries in 2015 and then umpires in 2016. Our coach decided to play 5 or more injured players. Tippett, Naismith, Parker, McVeigh, Mills. Marsh was fit. Nankervis was fit. But it was the umpires fault. The trifecta of excuses why we lost.

Once you have won a flag, every club fawns over the coach and ignores reality. Clarkson keeps growing his game style and won 3 in a row.

When a coach wants to win games with less the 70 points that worked 2003 to 2012. Ross lyon is the same and lost 4 of them. Grow up. I owe Longmire nothing but 2012.

Losers have always have excuses. Winners now that they have to keep moving with the game. Hawthorn did. Geelong did. Sydney didn't. St Kilda didn't. Fremantle didn't.

2 years ago i told you that we will never when a flag with Franklin with Longmire the coach. We are now further away at a rapid rate.

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[troyjones2525]

Clarkson if you want me to choose...

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And for the record I am not a Longmire hater on here (unlike many) but you asked the question.

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[Foreign Legion]

LOL - brave choice. Might not be so good in about 12 weeks.

[Scottee]

Cunningham easily one of our best along with Marsh, Jones and Lloyd. Newman not bad either and Hayward good.

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[crackedactor]

You would be hard pressed to find them ever losing a free kick count at home, that's to be expected with the vocal crowd. Our problem wasn't the umpires (although it didn't help), it was the poor decision making and skills by too many so called "senior" players.

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That one where Sam Mitchell kicked downfield after about 3 blows of the whistle was a joke. No 50 m penalty, but they where real quick on Callum Mills, with an 70 meter penalty at least, or closer to 100. Sinclair is a waste of space, it almost like we had no one in the ruck, Foote is not up to AFL standard, has had many chances now. Nick smith is well past it, he is going downhill rapidly. Our short passes are becoming laughable. Cannot hit the side of the barn. I think we are the worst side in the comp at the moment. I wish I didn't renew my membership.

[Industrial Fan]

Clarkson if you want me to choose...

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Do you fire Clarkson from the Hawks when they get pounded by the cats?

Calling for his head after losing the first four. ????

if anyone's thinking we need to play the kids, Longmire thought of it first

[Foreign Legion]

2 years ago i told you that we will never when a flag with Franklin with Longmire the coach. We are now further away at a rapid rate.

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Seems a pity that the Swans haven't picked up on your wisdom.

[troyjones2525]

LOL - brave choice. Might not be so good in about 12 weeks.
Still the best coach in the game, you can't be the best team forever but he's done pretty well I'd say.

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[troyjones2525]

Do you fire Clarkson from the Hawks when they get pounded by the cats?

Calling for his head after losing the first four. ????

if anyone's thinking we need to play the kids, Longmire thought of it first
Definitely not. There'd be 17 other teams knocking on his door if he was fired by the Hawks!

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[Swanny40519]

Cunningham easily one of our best along with Marsh, Jones and Lloyd. Newman not bad either and Hayward good.

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Gee I must have been watching a different game. Cunningham ultra soft. Marsh under pressure is hopeless. Jack has been terrible and Smith cost us 3 goals with terrible kicks and poor tackling.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

I dont hate Longmire either. We played 4 finals. 2 teams challenged us and we lost. 2 teams folded like cheap seats.

The reality is the he cant cope with game changing.

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[Boddo]

Big mistake last year was not blooding Newman. Would have made the transition for Mills to the midfield quicker. Surprised Aliir at some stage didn't play in the ruck as that's where he played in Queensland as a junior which would have almost allowed us to have an extra midfielder. Speaking of Aliir htf do the umpires miss the head high bump on Aliir?????

[Foreign Legion]

Still the best coach in the game, you can't be the best team forever but he's done pretty well I'd say.

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For how long is he the best coach? Seriously, Longmire is hardly to blame for us getting done tonight. Is Clarkson to blame for the Hawks current woes?

[707]

Chill folks, we are playing a very inexperienced side plus a few of our leaders are a little down on 2016 form. Maybe we over achieved last year with a young side that has got even younger this year because of a long injury list.

Positives are we have found two very good players in Newman who will play 150-200 on this form and the hugely talented 18yo Hayward who looks just what we need up forward.

Florent shows a bit for an 18yo who really should be honing himself in the NEAFL.

We were always thin on depth and a long injury list has exposed that but enjoy what we have found. We could be Hawthorn who have found nobody during their dry spell.

[Swanny40519]

Here is his record:
Longmire, John SY 2011-2017 93 2 40 135 69.63

That is 93 wins 40 losses up to the start of this year.

Who would you pick to replace him?


I would pick Clarkson. Horse has no plan B. Its the same old tactics week in and week out. Zone defence is terrible and all we do is give the opposition teams easy F50 entries where our defence stand and watch them take marks.

[jono2707]

Good effort. Undermanned. We've been past the critical mass of too many youngsters this year so far due to injuries. The endeavour was there, but we just don't have the cattle at the moment.

Let's focus on getting into the 8 (well winning a game first will do for starters) as that stupid pre finals bye now means anyone from the 8 can win it.

[Faunac8]

To give an idea of our list depth and quality an obviously injured Buddy still polled in the top six for AFL Fantasy points. The bottom six were Mills Fox Foote Florent Allir Papley I am not sure but probably a total of maybe 70 games amongst them.

[707]

Big mistake last year was not blooding Newman. Would have made the transition for Mills to the midfield quicker. Surprised Aliir at some stage didn't play in the ruck as that's where he played in Queensland as a junior which would have almost allowed us to have an extra midfielder. Speaking of Aliir htf do the umpires miss the head high bump on Aliir?????
Lecras will get games for that, intentional, didn't need to do it, high but yes HTF did the umpires miss that but also find an in the back that wasn't down our end. Sorry, but another woeful lopsided display by the maggots.

[Foreign Legion]

Chill folks, we are playing a very inexperienced side plus a few of our leaders are a little down on 2016 form. Maybe we over achieved last year with a young side that has got even younger this year because of a long injury list.

Positives are we have found two very good players in Newman who will play 150-200 on this form and the hugely talented 18yo Hayward who looks just what we need up forward.

Florent shows a bit for an 18yo who really should be honing himself in the NEAFL.

We were always thin on depth and a long injury list has exposed that but enjoy what we have found. We could be Hawthorn who have found nobody during their dry spell.

Yep I agree 707. Some positives out of this game - I was more pissed off last week. Newman is a keeper with good foot skills and Hayward looks VERY promising. Today - Buddy gone in first qtr and very inexperienced side.

We might beat GWS next week.

With a GREAT deal of luck hehe.

[mcs]

When we got within a kick, I thought we might be able to seize the momentum and go on with it. But like when we got in front against Collingwood, and the Dogs, we then coughed up quick goals to kill our momentum. Not helped by an awfully soft free in their forward line, then a clear throw in the ensuing clearance (I've just accepted that umpiring this season is going to be some shade of incompetent each week), but that utterly deflated us and took away any hope of a miracle win.

I thought we spent the summer practicing skills - if so, they weren't footy skills.

Our basic skills are killing us time and time again - in particular in the back line, where we are an utter @@@@ing shambles, and that is putting it nicely. Grundy was woeful tonight, Aliir not much better (his decision making tonight really let him down - but you will get that with the style of player he is), Mills has second year blues, Smith is struggling (Though I thought did a decent job tonight). Our best players down back tonight were Jones, Marsh (Who I thought had his best game in seniors) and Newman. We are leaking points at will when teams get on a run, giving away stupid free kicks, and so often being led to the ball. Once upon a time, when the rest of the team was struggling, we could rely on our defence to hold us in games. Not any more.

Our midfield is missing the grunt of Mitchell, and the poor form of Hanners, and potentially permanent decline of Jack (he must surely not be near 100% - he seems to have no acceleration), and our midfield is badly exposed. Left to Kennedy to do too much heavy lifting. At least Parker improved tonight, and Lloyd continues to have a good season as well.

As for the forward line - as has always been a bugbear of mine under Longmire, its disorganised, and too often becomes an extension of the backline when under pressure. Having Papley back helped, and he and Hayward will be a nice foil for the taller guys in time. I think Florent may well drop back to the seconds this week (if fit players allow it) - he just didn't offer much at all sadly.

On the other side, there were again some positives.
- Marsh as I said had a really good game, he seems to be growing into AFL footy.
- Kennedy led from the front and was great.
- Newman solid again, but like so many of his mates, wasteful using the ball.
- Hayward is improving week on week - he is the one young guy that I think will hold his spot when the troops come back. He has good positioning in the marking contest, just need to get plugger working on his kicking and he will be a really solid addition to the forward line.
- Foote did a decent job early on Mitchell.
- Cunningham had a good go tonight I thought - lots of tackles, and some good contested play for once. More of that please Harry.

Frankly, given how far we are from our best footy, it is quite sensational that we haven't been spanked 3 weeks out of 4 so far - a mark of a team that never gives up on the contest, if nothing else.
Our season is cooked in my opinion - and we aren't going to beat many teams when we can't do the basics. The will is there, but the lack of troops, and dreadful form of key players is killing us at key moments. Fair chance of more injury woes out of this one, with Buddy very sore and sorry. If GWS turn up to play next week, it could be a very nasty defeat....

Worst bit of all is no alcohol to wash it down for me - have to drive in the morning :(

[MattW]

Man, the first sign of trouble and the knives are out for some. We've been dealt our fair share of good times.

Reckon our travails start with Hannebery and Parker and creep down the ground to Grundy, Mills and Smith. Historically consistent and reliable performers, well off their game.

But collectively, bad decision-making. We really need the mature and calm influences of McVeigh and Rampe and the dynamism and strength of Heeney. Quick, because some players are losing faith a bit.

[troyjones2525]

For how long is he the best coach? Seriously, Longmire is hardly to blame for us getting done tonight. Is Clarkson to blame for the Hawks current woes?
You don't think he's the best coach in the game??? And I don't believe I blamed Longmire for this loss, the pathetic decision making and skills from a lot of experienced players cost us unfortunately.

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[mcs]

Lecras will get games for that, intentional, didn't need to do it, high but yes HTF did the umpires miss that but also find an in the back that wasn't down our end. Sorry, but another woeful lopsided display by the maggots.

That got me pissed off (And officially warned by the Missus!) - he should get banned for it but I bet he doesn't.

[Swanny40519]

I dont hate Longmire either. We played 4 finals. 2 teams challenged us and we lost. 2 teams folded like cheap seats.

The reality is the he cant cope with game changing.

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Agree 200% Horse does not like change and it is driving me mad watching us play at the moment.we have to be more innovative with our play.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

It is always the player's. Dimma admitted he was wrong, the coach, and now they are playing 'new' footy.

Are the Tigers going to win the flag. No, but trying to play real quick footy and it works well.

Longmire always blames the players. In 6 years never admitted he was wrong. Not one.

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[Foreign Legion]

You don't think he's the best coach in the game??? And I don't believe I blamed Longmire for this loss, the pathetic decision making and skills from a lot of experienced players cost us unfortunately.

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You were the one who mentioned Longmire first - not me.

Not saying he is blameless but Jesus, he has some credits in the bank.

[Markwebbos]

This season will be a write off by the time we get all the players back. It's not fair to judge the current team with so many players out. Give it a couple of months.

[MattW]

Gee I must have been watching a different game. Cunningham ultra soft. Marsh under pressure is hopeless. Jack has been terrible and Smith cost us 3 goals with terrible kicks and poor tackling.

I was watching the same game as Scottee. Cunningham topped the tackle count and Marsh was our best defender.

[Foreign Legion]

This season will be a write off by the time we get all the players back. It's not fair to judge the current team with so many players out. Give it a couple of months.

Exactly!

[mcs]

The reality is the he cant cope with game changing.


Wauchope, you've nailed my fear precisely on the head with that comment. I really do wonder if Longmire is going to be able to transform our gameplan, as the changing style of AFL footy is going to demand. Contested ball is no longer the king it was, and you can't make up for a slow midfield by having lots of contested ball kings. If I was a Hawks fan, despite the clear holes developing in their list, I'd be confident their coach knows how to adapt to the way footy is going (being driven by the Commission and its rule changes I might add). I can't say I'm confident Longmire will manage the same.

He has been an enormous part of our clubs success, but I wonder if Longmire will be able to reinvent our game plan as the game moves in an uncomfortable direction. Our style of footy is no longer being rewarded in the way it once was.

[Boddo]

Chill folks, we are playing a very inexperienced side plus a few of our leaders are a little down on 2016 form. Maybe we over achieved last year with a young side that has got even younger this year because of a long injury list.

Positives are we have found two very good players in Newman who will play 150-200 on this form and the hugely talented 18yo Hayward who looks just what we need up forward.

Florent shows a bit for an 18yo who really should be honing himself in the NEAFL.

We were always thin on depth and a long injury list has exposed that but enjoy what we have found. We could be Hawthorn who have found nobody during their dry spell.

Biggest issue for me is frustration. We haven't found Newman he's been there for a while. Should have played last year & it feels like we are making the same mistake with Melican. Perfect back up for a Rampe. Give him a game, let him know what he needs to do to be part of an AFL side.

Florent is out of his depth atm but you can def see there is a very good player there.

You can't criticise hawthorn, they played 4 GF in a row n won 3 in a row. Any club would be prepared for a few down years if they could have that.

[Ludwig]

It's not a bad thing to go out of contention in April as we can now make this a development year without going through the pretenses of fighting for another flag. We've got more problems than just missing a number of senior players.

We need to revamp of defence. Reg was great last year, but I don't see the point in playing him any more this year. We should bring in Melican and build or defence around him and Aliir. I won't happen overnight, but if we start now we should be able to kick off next season with some experience of these new guys working together.

No point in playing KJ while he is in this form or bringing back Macca for the rest of the year. They're not going to be in our next premiership team.

[MattW]

When we got within a kick, I thought we might be able to seize the momentum and go on with it. But like when we got in front against Collingwood, and the Dogs, we then coughed up quick goals to kill our momentum. Not helped by an awfully soft free in their forward line, then a clear throw in the ensuing clearance (I've just accepted that umpiring this season is going to be some shade of incompetent each week), but that utterly deflated us and took away any hope of a miracle win.

I thought we spent the summer practicing skills - if so, they weren't footy skills.

Our basic skills are killing us time and time again - in particular in the back line, where we are an utter @@@@ing shambles, and that is putting it nicely. Grundy was woeful tonight, Aliir not much better (his decision making tonight really let him down - but you will get that with the style of player he is), Mills has second year blues, Smith is struggling (Though I thought did a decent job tonight). Our best players down back tonight were Jones, Marsh (Who I thought had his best game in seniors) and Newman. We are leaking points at will when teams get on a run, giving away stupid free kicks, and so often being led to the ball. Once upon a time, when the rest of the team was struggling, we could rely on our defence to hold us in games. Not any more.

Our midfield is missing the grunt of Mitchell, and the poor form of Hanners, and potentially permanent decline of Jack (he must surely not be near 100% - he seems to have no acceleration), and our midfield is badly exposed. Left to Kennedy to do too much heavy lifting. At least Parker improved tonight, and Lloyd continues to have a good season as well.

As for the forward line - as has always been a bugbear of mine under Longmire, its disorganised, and too often becomes an extension of the backline when under pressure. Having Papley back helped, and he and Hayward will be a nice foil for the taller guys in time. I think Florent may well drop back to the seconds this week (if fit players allow it) - he just didn't offer much at all sadly.

On the other side, there were again some positives.
- Marsh as I said had a really good game, he seems to be growing into AFL footy.
- Kennedy led from the front and was great.
- Newman solid again, but like so many of his mates, wasteful using the ball.
- Hayward is improving week on week - he is the one young guy that I think will hold his spot when the troops come back. He has good positioning in the marking contest, just need to get plugger working on his kicking and he will be a really solid addition to the forward line.
- Foote did a decent job early on Mitchell.
- Cunningham had a good go tonight I thought - lots of tackles, and some good contested play for once. More of that please Harry.

Frankly, given how far we are from our best footy, it is quite sensational that we haven't been spanked 3 weeks out of 4 so far - a mark of a team that never gives up on the contest, if nothing else.
Our season is cooked in my opinion - and we aren't going to beat many teams when we can't do the basics. The will is there, but the lack of troops, and dreadful form of key players is killing us at key moments. Fair chance of more injury woes out of this one, with Buddy very sore and sorry. If GWS turn up to play next week, it could be a very nasty defeat....

Worst bit of all is no alcohol to wash it down for me - have to drive in the morning :(

Pretty much how I saw it. Not so pessimistic about next week (in part because I'm traveling up the highway to watch it!).

[Faunac8]

What a challenge for the Swans to tackle
No team has ever played finals after starting the season 0-4
Can we do it ?

[troyjones2525]

You were the one who mentioned Longmire first - not me.

Not saying he is blameless but Jesus, he has some credits in the bank.
Yes. I mentioned his generic press conference answers that he always gives, I didn't blame him for the loss.

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[bodgie]

I share concerns about Longmires slow reluctant evolution, but you can't make a clear judgement on this early season with all the raw spakfilla we have out on the field

[Faunac8]

If we kick the first two goals rather then the Eagles I think we would have come away with the points. Unrewarded pressure hurts.

[mcs]

Pretty much how I saw it. Not so pessimistic about next week (in part because I'm traveling up the highway to watch it!).

From another Matt, I'll say I hope its a trip worth making up the highway Matt! :redface:

We aren't going up the Hume next week as we have chosen to do the return fixture, so we can check out the Showgrounds for the first time.

[Industrial Fan]

It's not a bad thing to go out of contention in April as we can now make this a development year without going through the pretenses of fighting for another flag. We've got more problems than just missing a number of senior players.

We need to revamp of defence. Reg was great last year, but I don't see the point in playing him any more this year. We should bring in Melican and build or defence around him and Aliir. I won't happen overnight, but if we start now we should be able to kick off next season with some experience of these new guys working together.

No point in playing KJ while he is in this form or bringing back Macca for the rest of the year. They're not going to be in our next premiership team.
Disagree on the senior players, but especially Reg.

Without doubt it's easier for younger players to learn their role within an existing structure. Last year we came so close with a very young side, but we can't load up with youngsters and hope to teach them anything getting flogged every week. We are already playing the kids.

The results haven't gone our way but in a lot of respects it's decision making at critical times and conposure costing us. That, for mine, is a result of too many players missing from the system.

Rampe is the biggest loss as far as I see it. Even for GWS, you take out Phil Davis they often lose. We are missing our critical mass of key players.

[mcs]

I share concerns about Longmires slow reluctant evolution, but you can't make a clear judgement on this early season with all the raw spakfilla we have out on the field

Absolutely agree Bodgie, and I want to see us with close to a full line up before making any rash judgements. But despite the bunch of raw Cygnets on display, the concern I have is that in all 4 games, the same signs have been there that our gameplan is struggling to fit in with the way AFL footy is going. I hope I'm wrong, but I think both us and the Hawks in that respect are going to find it hard to adjust how we play now to fit the direction the game is taking.

[Boddo]

The one thing is that the young players that came in last year had a very long grounding for a few years before making their debut or you had the exception of Mills who was an elite junior with years of academy training making him ready for our senior side where as this year we have Florent n Hayward straight outa junior footy trying to step straight into AFL senior footy. Totally different to last year.

[Ludwig]

I don't think the criticism of Longmire is warranted. He's injecting new players into the side every week. There's only so much you can do to integrate these inexperienced players when the heat is on. I think they've done pretty well for the most part. We are playing like a poorly oiled machine, but I'm still hopeful that we will look much better as the year rolls on.

There's a pretty big gap between us and the better teams this year. That's just the way it is. The boys are trying, but we are just being outplayed. There's no reason to be upset about it. I think the coaches, list managers and development team have done a great job and we should be back in the hunt very soon.

[PerthSwannie]

I just checked Google. Worst year was 1993. 20 straight losses........Last on the ladder.

[Boddo]

I don't think the criticism of Longmire is warranted. He's injecting new players into the side every week. There's only so much you can do to integrate these inexperienced players when the heat is on. I think they've done pretty well for the most part. We are playing like a poorly oiled machine, but I'm still hopeful that we will look much better as the year rolls on.

There's a pretty big gap between us and the better teams this year. That's just the way it is. The boys are trying, but we are just being outplayed. There's no reason to be upset about it. I think the coaches, list managers and development team have done a great job and we should be back in the hunt very soon.

Agree. Only criticism from me is not playing Melican.

[mcs]

I don't think the criticism of Longmire is warranted.

I agree in part Ludwig, but I do think its reasonable to question his ability to adapt our gameplan to the way footy is changing. No two ways about it, our highly contested, tough in and under footy is not as effective as it once was, with the way the game is moving. I'm yet to see any real evidence that we are going to easily adopt to the way the game more broadly is changing.

He deserves plenty of leeway, and injuries and missing personnel are killing us so far this season - but I don't think its unfair to be a bit reserved on the gameplan side of things.

[Markwebbos]

I agree in part Ludwig, but I do think its reasonable to question his ability to adapt our gameplan to the way footy is changing. No two ways about it, our highly contested, tough in and under footy is not as effective as it once was, with the way the game is moving. I'm yet to see any real evidence that we are going to easily adopt to the way the game more broadly is changing.

He deserves plenty of leeway, and injuries and missing personnel are killing us so far this season - but I don't think its unfair to be a bit reserved on the gameplan side of things.

You could say the same thing about last year, but we got within a whisker of winning the GF. Difference is this year we are being beaten around the contest and don't have a plan B. Our game plan relies on winning in the middle.

Question is whether getting all those players back will make a difference? I think it will.

I also think the injection of youth is about making us quicker and more aggressive with ball movement, but it will take time

[Boddo]

I agree in part Ludwig, but I do think its reasonable to question his ability to adapt our gameplan to the way footy is changing. No two ways about it, our highly contested, tough in and under footy is not as effective as it once was, with the way the game is moving. I'm yet to see any real evidence that we are going to easily adopt to the way the game more broadly is changing.

He deserves plenty of leeway, and injuries and missing personnel are killing us so far this season - but I don't think its unfair to be a bit reserved on the gameplan side of things.

How does he change it an instant. Look at what we've drafted over the last few years we have to be patient. Our side is evolving to how the game is evolving. It will take time. We can't just say overnight lets play an uncontested running game when we don't have the cattle. Imagine saying that to Kennedy, Hannebery & Parker.

[Mountain Man]

As to the game plan, the 2 players who were 'allowed' to move onfrom 2016 were Mitchell and Nankervis. The former was a regular whipping boy of too inside, slow and too contested possession oriented. Pretty much the same for Nankervis - slower and useful around contests but not as promising a tap ruckman as Naismith.

So in game terms, the supposed right type of players went to allow a faster game plan. Injuries and performance have crewelled 2017 (so far - hopefully), but blaming Longmire's adherence to an outmoded gameplan seems to me to be a bit unfair.

[ernie koala]

Sick to death of honourable losses.....

For some reason I feel very confident we'll secure our first win of the season against an extremely unlikeable GWS...

I look forward to it.

[aardvark]

1813

[mcs]

How does he change it an instant. Look at what we've drafted over the last few years we have to be patient. Our side is evolving to how the game is evolving. It will take time. We can't just say overnight lets play an uncontested running game when we don't have the cattle. Imagine saying that to Kennedy, Hannebery & Parker.

I'm not suggesting that he can change it in an instant. Not suggesting that at all. But I don't think it takes a genius to see the way the game is going. Our team may well be evolving in terms of who we are recruiting - that I have little doubt either. But I don't see what is unreasonable to suggest that we will struggle to adapt.

It will take time of course, but like with any journey, you would like to see some markers along the way showing we are making progress. In terms of the gameplan, all I've seen so far is a suicidal tendency to play on far too often out of the back line this season - that is all that has really changed that I can see.

- - - Updated - - -



So in game terms, the supposed right type of players went to allow a faster game plan. Injuries and performance have crewelled 2017 (so far - hopefully), but blaming Longmire's adherence to an outmoded gameplan seems to me to be a bit unfair.

I'm not blaming Longmire's adherence to the gameplan for the position we are in - not at all. Just saying I don't think it is unreasonable to not be completely convinced that he will be able to evolve the game plan, as we will need to do over the coming seasons. I damn well hope he proves those that doubt wrong - and as I said elsewhere, he deserves plenty of leeway. But he shouldn't be above reasonable questioning or criticism either when things aren't going well.

[aardvark]

Liked the effort, hated the turnovers and poor skill execution. Cunningham and Marsh showed a bit along with Hayward.
I cringed every time Reid or Buddy went up in the ruck.
At least we now have a 9 day break and Macca, Rohan, Tippett, Heeney and Naismith back in training.

[Boddo]

I'm not suggesting that he can change it in an instant. Not suggesting that at all. But I don't think it takes a genius to see the way the game is going. Our team may well be evolving in terms of who we are recruiting - that I have little doubt either. But I don't see what is unreasonable to suggest that we will struggle to adapt.

It will take time of course, but like with any journey, you would like to see some markers along the way showing we are making progress. In terms of the gameplan, all I've seen so far is a suicidal tendency to play on far too often out of the back line this season - that is all that has really changed that I can see.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm not blaming Longmire's adherence to the gameplan for the position we are in - not at all. Just saying I don't think it is unreasonable to not be completely convinced that he will be able to evolve the game plan, as we will need to do over the coming seasons. I damn well hope he proves those that doubt wrong - and as I said elsewhere, he deserves plenty of leeway. But he shouldn't be above reasonable questioning or criticism either when things aren't going well.

I disagree. I think our game plan is changing but it's very very hard to change as fast as the AFL has moved with the rules. I mean look at the Bulldogs it's like the AFL has said "there you go that's what we want so let's move the rules along to that style of footy" 2 years ago it wouldn't last but with the new interpretation of htb, hand passing and dropping the ball it's pretty damn hard to go bang lets play like that. We were changing but the AFL just beat us to the change very quickly.

[mcs]

I disagree. I think our game plan is changing but it's very very hard to change as fast as the AFL has moved with the rules. I mean look at the Bulldogs it's like the AFL has said "there you go that's what we want so let's move the rules along to that style of footy" 2 years ago it wouldn't last but with the new interpretation of htb, hand passing and dropping the ball it's pretty damn hard to go bang lets play like that. We were changing but the AFL just beat us to the change very quickly.

Fair point boddo, though in that regard it doesnt matter if you can keep up with thredonkeys changing the goal posts, its whether you can keep up with the ability of other teams to adapt. In that regard, even with personnel and injuries issues taken into account, we are far off the pace in 2017. As are the Hawks by the looks of it. With players back we may well close the gap somewhat, but i cant see very clearly where we have changed a lot of how we play since buddy/tippo arrived at the club (which necessitated a change from our 2012 style). Our gameplan still fundamentally relies on winning hard ball in the middle and wearing our opponents down with hard, contested footy.

I think it may be telling (more evidence is needed as players come back), but there has been an eerie resemblance in all 4 losses in relation to where we are getting beaten. Some of it can be put down to the inexperience of the team, but thinking in particular about the midfield, one could conclude it points to more fundamental issues with our game plan.