Changes for Round 11 Geelong

[troyjones2525]

With at least 1 forced change being Kennedy and perhaps 2 with a sore Robbie Fox there are a couple of changes that I would love to see (*Note I don't necessarily think these will actually happen).

Option 1.
Out: Kennedy, Fox.
In: Rowbottom, Menzel.

With this option I want to see Rowbottom to replace Kennedy and fill his role completely, being played as an inside mid predominantly starting in the middle of the ground. I want to see if he can perform at the highest level and why not get him in there head to head against a guy like Selwood! Would be a great learning experience for him at this early stage in his career!

Option 2.
Out: Kennedy, Fox.
In: Stoddart, Menzel.

With this option I want to see Stoddart replace Mills in defence which would add some speed in that area and allow Mills to replace Kennedy as a full-time inside midfielder. It's time Horse! With Kennedy out for a couple of weeks minimum and Jones also out a little while there is an opening in our midfield. We need to see what the kid can do if given a real opportunity to play in the position he dominated as a junior!

As I said at the start I doubt that these scenarios will probably happen as I know Horse is a very conservative coach (although I can see either of those players picked, especially Menzel) and will no doubt just move Papley back more in the middle instead of giving those other options a go.

I wouldn't even mind to see Rose given another go, but only if they play him as a mid where he has earned his place with great NEAFL form.

I think Menzel is a definite, which will be great theatre against his old side, but a second change is anyones guess!

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[Blood Fever]

Surprised if Hewitt plays.

[troyjones2525]

Surprised if Hewitt plays.Looked to be a slight concussion, didn't appear to be too serious so I wouldn't have thought he'd miss a week from it.

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[Markwebbos]

Maybe Sinkers needs a spell, which would be helped by bringing Menzel into the FWD line to replace Reid.

OUT: Kennedy (injured), Sinclair (buggered)
IN: Menzel, McVeigh

[bloodspirit]

Maybe Sinkers needs a spell, which would be helped by bringing Menzel into the FWD line to replace Reid.

OUT: Kennedy (injured), Sinclair (buggered)
IN: Menzel, McVeigh

??? You would omit Sinclair without bringing in Cameron and pull Reid out of his usual forward role when he just had his best ever game in that position and send him into the ruck? When I first read your comment I actually thought you were having a lend.

Menzel in seems a no brainier although who is going to apply the forward pressure? Come to think of it, this is another thing Reid makes a good contribution to.

Maybe our mid season draft mature recruit will just be the plug and play solution to our midfield deficits? Now I'm just having a lend.

Here's my serious left field selection suggestion: bringgg the Bell!

[barry]

Sinkers is an average Ruckman who gets towled up by good Ruckman and breaks even against the rest.
Geelong don't have s strong ruck division so he will go ok against them.

[707]

Another fascinating week at selection, so many possibilities.

Position wise, as Ugg observed, maybe Dawson will play mostly centre square whilst JPK is absent. He'll still be able to drift back and forward as he has been in recent weeks. That saves disturbing the backline, just need a new winger.

[Mel_C]

On Game Day this morning I'm sure I heard Jude Bolton say that McVeigh will be available this week. Hope he's right!

[Markwebbos]

On Game Day this morning I'm sure I heard Jude Bolton say that McVeigh will be available this week. Hope he's right!

They said that this week, so it may come to pass. I reckon Menzel and Macca could be two big ins. McVeigh might make it easier for Mills to go into the midfield to replace Kennedy.

[dejavoodoo44]

They said that this week, so it may come to pass. I reckon Menzel and Macca could be two big ins. McVeigh might make it easier for Mills to go into the midfield to replace Kennedy.

Yes, I thought at the time, that McVeigh's injury derailed the move of Mills to the midfield, because they wanted a mature head in defence. Then I thought, well, Mills is only 22 and Rampe is co-captain, so maybe that's not the case. But some of Dane's recent actions, have made me think that I was right the first time.

[Ralph Dawg]

On Game Day this morning I'm sure I heard Jude Bolton say that McVeigh will be available this week. Hope he's right!
I wonder whether he will be eased back in? One more major soft tissue injury and we could be bidding farewell to another club champion😥

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If Menzel comes in for JPK, I presume it will mean Heeney, Hayward and Paps will spend more time in the midfield. A forward line with Buddy, Reid, McCartain and Menzel looks a bit slow and lacking in forward tackling pressure.

[MattW]

Sydney Swans on Twitter: "Longmire: George Hewett has pulled up well, Josh will be out probably until the bye." (https://twitter.com/sydneyswans/status/1132844447912189952?s=19)

Sydney Swans on Twitter: "Longmire on Menzel: He had a good second half in the NEAFL. We will sit down this week and see what the team looks like then." (https://twitter.com/sydneyswans/status/1132844865610371072?s=19)

[liz]

Josh being out until the bye sounds like a pretty good outcome, given that's only two matches away. When the website reported on Friday/Saturday that he would be out for "weeks", that suggested something substantially longer. Of course, it still could be longer, but doesn't sound quite as gloomy.

[Hotpotato]

G. Ablett
One week .

[Blue Sun]

G. Ablett
One week .

About time he got a week on the sidelines.

[liz]

He'll probably appeal it again, though I think he might have a bit more trouble this time. A little bit worse than "clumsy".

[0918330512]

He'll probably appeal it again, though I think he might have a bit more trouble this time. A little bit worse than "clumsy".
According to afl.com he’s accepting the sanction

[Nico]

According to afl.com he’s accepting the sanction

3 strikes and you're out mister nice guy.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

??? You would omit Sinclair without bringing in Cameron and pull Reid out of his usual forward role when he just had his best ever game in that position and send him into the ruck? When I first read your comment I actually thought you were having a lend!
+1
I think Reids development has been impeded by our inability to define his role as much as his physical fragility.

And the argument can be applied to Mills I reckon, he looked much good against the magpies, and a clear thinking Hodgelike halfback general (and possible captain) is a worthy part of a premiership team especially if the Swans intention is to play grassburners like Stoddart/Ling/NewMac on the flanks.
While I love ZanyDane as a player, I am also just beginning to wonder at his suitability as a captain.

[707]

+1
I think Reids development has been impeded by our inability to define his role as much as his physical fragility.

And the argument can be applied to Mills I reckon, he looked much good against the magpies, and a clear thinking Hodgelike halfback general (and possible captain) is a worthy part of a premiership team especially if the Swans intention is to play grassburners like Stoddart/Ling/NewMac on the flanks.
While I love ZanyDane as a player, I am also just beginning to wonder at his suitability as a captain.OTC last night showed Rampe only went over the mark as he jumped in the air, was hardly over at all, not the two metres suggested by some. Reckon the woeful kick by Mayne made the umpire think he'd gone over so he blew the whistle. The post climbing may have been ignorance of the rules, I'm forgiving and forgetting, Captain on Dane.

[bloodspirit]

Dane is my favourite current player and my loyalty runs deep. I love him more, not less, for his passion even if it occasionally comes back to bite us.

[Markwebbos]

I #StandWithDane too. He’s such a good player I can forgive the odd brain fade

[AnnieH]

At least no one is going to get elbowed in the face this week.
All good.

[stevoswan]

Dane is my favourite current player and my loyalty runs deep. I love him more, not less, for his passion even if it occasionally comes back to bite us.

That's all well and good but a Captain should NEVER do anything which "comes back to bite us". He needs to pull his head in....or just use what's in it a little better.

[Hotpotato]

OTC last night showed Rampe only went over the mark as he jumped in the air, was hardly over at all, not the two metres suggested by some. Reckon the woeful kick by Mayne made the umpire think he'd gone over so he blew the whistle. The post climbing may have been ignorance of the rules, I'm forgiving and forgetting, Captain on Dane.

Sort of like serving in tennis when the player is airborne on impact but forward of the line .

I was in the stand nearby and was so confused by the free . It iced the game for the pies.

[Meg]

Sort of like serving in tennis when the player is airborne on impact but forward of the line .

Which is legal in tennis but not in footy?? Anyone know?

I too think think Dane has received too much criticism for this. It was a mistake in trying to execute a perfectly legitimate tactic, not a brain fade.

We don’t know it cost the game - in the counterfactual situation in which Rampe stayed behind the line, Mayne might have kicked the goal anyway. It was a perfectly gettable shot.

The couple of missed goals earlier in the quarter were more regrettable in my view. But again they were mistakes in execution, footy is full of them.

[Markwebbos]

I remember a year or two ago Hanners getting crucified for standing a metre too far behind the mark and allowing, from memory a Hawks player, to kick the winning goal.

[goswannies]

Errors, small and large, are often overlooked in victory, yet often crucified in defeat.

Imaging if the Essendon & Collingwood results had been reversed. If we’d beaten Collingwood, Dane’s going over the mark I suspect wouldn’t even rate a mention. If we’d lost to Essendon as a result of a 50m paid for climbing the post, I’m fairly certain the mild criticism he’s received on here for that one would be calling for him to be dumped to the NEAFL, cut from the leadership group or maybe even traded.

Victory goggles are somewhat forgiving

[Matty10]

I remember a year or two ago Hanners getting crucified for standing a metre too far behind the mark and allowing, from memory a Hawks player, to kick the winning goal.

That’s like the shot after the siren in the Essendon game. Our player, can’t remember who, is at least three metres back from where the ball was marked.

[gazza]

I agree with earlier post,sinclair looks very tired. time for Cameron to be rewarded. Menzel for kennedy and hope McVeigh is back

[Mark26]

Here are my changes:
Menzel in for Hayward
McVeigh into defence and which pushes Mills into the mids for JK

[barry]

Mensel and grassy knoll in.
McVeigh can stay well away.

[0918330512]

Mensel and grassy knoll in.
McVeigh can stay well away.

Brodie Grundy or Max Gawn are probably the only 2 ruckmen you’d recruit on a Monday and slot straight into the side the following Saturday. For an away trip to Geelong, no less. And you want a guy that was essentially needed almost 150 in this years draft, and less than 3 years experience at SANFL level to step up?

And injuries aside, Macca is easily in our best 22. If he breaks, he’s one injury closer to retirement and putting a smile on your face. Injury free he helps marshal our inexperienced defence. If he’s ready, play him. He adds value. If he breaks, apart from it being sad for him, we are no worse off next week.

Menzel is a slightly more sensible suggestion, although he’s played less than 2 games of minutes on the ground since the season started.

[barry]

Grassy knoll has to play. He has been tearing it up at SANFL level which is way above NEAFL. He couldn't do worse than poor old sinkers.

And on McVeigh, our defense has been fine without him, and if you pick him, it's only displacing a youngster. He needs to do a rhyse Shaw and coach from the 2's

[BRISWAN]

McVeigh is a proven performer in the backs and organises the group

Not sure the backs are going as well as some suggest, as we are in the wrong end of points against us.

[AnnieH]

Grassy knoll has to play. He has been tearing it up at SANFL level which is way above NEAFL. He couldn't do worse than poor old sinkers.

And on McVeigh, our defense has been fine without him, and if you pick him, it's only displacing a youngster. He needs to do a rhyse Shaw and coach from the 2's

Sit down everyone.
I'm agreeing with Barry.

[barry]

Sit down everyone.
I'm agreeing with Barry.

Sound logic always wins in the end.

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McVeigh is a proven performer in the backs and organises the group

Not sure the backs are going as well as some suggest, as we are in the wrong end of points against us.

You could have said the same about Grundy. Time to move on.

[Blood Fever]

Sound logic always wins in the end.

- - - Updated - - -



You could have said the same about Grundy. Time to move on.

Could spend time midfield/forward

[Mr Magoo]

You need to have a balance of experience with youth. I dont think it benefits the team or the young players themselves for them all to be thrown in the deep end together.

If it makes sense to bring McVeigh in to the team for that balance then I would trust that this is the decision that is made. We shouldnt just discount every senior player on the basis that they are taking the place of a younger player.

[jono2707]

With JPK out for a few weeks, someone has to look after the kids. For as much as we love him, Rampe has been a bit of a drunk uncle lately and I don't think we can trust him 100% to run the ship. McVeigh comes straight back in IF he's good to go.

Edit: Not saying Dane hasn't been playing great, but his brain explosions have been a bit of a worry...

[Markwebbos]

With JPK out for a few weeks, someone has to look after the kids. For as much as we love him, Rampe has been a bit of a drunk uncle lately and I don't think we can trust him 100% to run the ship. McVeigh comes straight back in IF he's good to go.

Edit: Not saying Dane hasn't been playing great, but his brain explosions have been a bit of a worry...

#IStandWithDane

I think it has now been established that (1) Dane didn't give away a free-kick when attempting to climb the post against Essendon (2) the 50m penalty to Chris Mayne was borderline at best.

[waswan]

Let Ramps kick in, i dont reckon Lloyd or McVeigh can kick 45m

[wolftone57]

I prefer players to prove their fitness in the reserves. Sick of this two tier system. Players like Macca etc getting a free pass. It sends the wrong message. Menzell came back through the reserves and so should Macca. He has been out for 7 week ffs. That is a long time and his match fitness will be 0-40%. He will need and appreciate the run at the lower level.

I certainly believe we need a mix of youth and experience but not at the expense of a fully fit and competitive unit. We took unfit players into the 2014 and the 2016 GFs. We haven't learnt from that unfortunately. We need to learn the lesson that to play players who are not match fit penalises the team.

In saying we need youth and experience we are in a rebuilding or redevelopment year. We have been for several seasons really. We have drafted and then slowly developed players over a period of years. This policy is now starting to pay dividends with the form of Hewee, Lloydy, McCartin (allowing Reid to get less pressure), Blakey, Heeney & Co. Our kids are developing well and the reserves are starting to gel too. Some of the kids in the Twos who are impressing are: Foot, Amarty, Pink, Bell, Rowbottom, Stoddart, Wicks, Cameron and Rose. Ling is being Brought on slowly with managed minutes but in the second half last week he showed glympses of why we drafted him. Clever little bugger who runs at 100% efficiency.

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[Melbourne_Blood]

#IStandWithDane

I think it has now been established that (1) Dane didn't give away a free-kick when attempting to climb the post against Essendon (2) the 50m penalty to Chris Mayne was borderline at best.

Not sure a captain of a club should be engaging in borderline activities or goal post climbing in the dying moments of tight contests though . Needs to settle down a bit . Form good, just cut out the weird stuff that has the potential to cost us games .


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[RogueSwan]

Macca will gain nothing by playing in the magoos.
In the seniors an experienced head can make a huge difference, especially to a young and, on average, inexperienced side.
And even though Macca not be fleet of foot anymore the way he can move through traffic is generally smooth and controlled. He doesn't tend to handball/kick to a teammate under immediate pressure.

[MattW]

Let Ramps kick in, i dont reckon Lloyd or McVeigh can kick 45m

Lloyd's kicked 55m set shots for goal.

[liz]

Macca will gain nothing by playing in the magoos.


I don't think that what Macca will gain from playing reserves is the important question. He's not a long term part of the club's plans, given his age, and it's highly unlikely we'll be playing finals this season. His return - or not - to the senior team should surely revolve around what the team will gain by having him back.

I think you need to look at where he would fit into the team. Revising his role across half-back is the most natural place to play him. O'Riordan is currently holding down that spot. So do you simply replace COR with McVeigh? I'd be disappointed if that happened because Colin has shown over the last few weeks that he's ready to play senior football. And while he's not yet as accomplished a player as McVeigh, he does represent the generation coming through, not the one on its way out.

If you're not going to simply replace COR (or Thurlow - about whom I'd make similar observations to those on COR), can you reshuffle the team to fit McVeigh in? To do this you'd need to move COR, Lloyd or Mills elsewhere on the field. I don't include Thurlow here because I don't think there's another natural position for him. I'm not the only person who has commented that Lloyd might represent more value across half-forward but it would be a big shift to move him away from defence. COR has played on the wing at NEAFL level and has even attended a handful of centre bounces but I don't think he projects at the moment as an onballer at senior level.

So it comes back to whether the coaches are prepared to release Mills into the midfield. It seems like an obvious move, particularly given that Kennedy is the one player that needs to be replaced. But it's seemed obvious for a while and the coaches have resisted, so I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen this week.

I think the only other way to fit McVeigh in (and then subsequently to work out how to structure the team) is to drop Clarke or Fox. Clarke seems highly unlikely given the tagging jobs he's successfully accomplished over the past fortnight. Fox is probably more of a bits and pieces player, someone without a defined role. Would McVeigh be a better option to come in and perform that variety of roles, including shut down roles where there's another opposition player worthy of focussing on shutting out of a game? Not sure.

[aardvark]

We have the third highest points against. A little direction from Macca would probably help.

[Markwebbos]

I don't think that what Macca will gain from playing reserves is the important question. He's not a long term part of the club's plans, given his age, and it's highly unlikely we'll be playing finals this season. His return - or not - to the senior team should surely revolve around what the team will gain by having him back.

I think you need to look at where he would fit into the team. Revising his role across half-back is the most natural place to play him. O'Riordan is currently holding down that spot. So do you simply replace COR with McVeigh? I'd be disappointed if that happened because Colin has shown over the last few weeks that he's ready to play senior football. And while he's not yet as accomplished a player as McVeigh, he does represent the generation coming through, not the one on its way out.

If you're not going to simply replace COR (or Thurlow - about whom I'd make similar observations to those on COR), can you reshuffle the team to fit McVeigh in? To do this you'd need to move COR, Lloyd or Mills elsewhere on the field. I don't include Thurlow here because I don't think there's another natural position for him. I'm not the only person who has commented that Lloyd might represent more value across half-forward but it would be a big shift to move him away from defence. COR has played on the wing at NEAFL level and has even attended a handful of centre bounces but I don't think he projects at the moment as an onballer at senior level.

So it comes back to whether the coaches are prepared to release Mills into the midfield. It seems like an obvious move, particularly given that Kennedy is the one player that needs to be replaced. But it's seemed obvious for a while and the coaches have resisted, so I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen this week.

I think the only other way to fit McVeigh in (and then subsequently to work out how to structure the team) is to drop Clarke or Fox. Clarke seems highly unlikely given the tagging jobs he's successfully accomplished over the past fortnight. Fox is probably more of a bits and pieces player, someone without a defined role. Would McVeigh be a better option to come in and perform that variety of roles, including shut down roles where there's another opposition player worthy of focussing on shutting out of a game? Not sure.

Good points in there Liz.

If Macca comes in, it must not be at the expense of Thurlow or COR. That would be a retrograde step. Releasing Mills to the mids for at least a couple of games would be a popular outcome here on RWO.

I've been impressed with Clarke and to a lesser extent Fox in defensive roles. Clarke on Higgins / Sidebum and Fox on Saad / Polec although his role was less clear last week. I don't think there's any way an underdone McVeigh could replace either, but if Fox made way for Mills it would have to be in a different role.

The other question is who makes way for Menzel if they decide to play him against his former club, which would have a nice symmetry about it with Gaz doing the same. If we play Reid, McCartin, Buddy, Blakey and Menzel that's a forward line lacking in smalls... I wonder if they'd give McCartin or Blakey a spell? They've both been going OK.

[bloodspirit]

I agree with your analysis liz and therefore I think Fox will be dropped because McVeigh offers more. The match committee have tended to be ok with moving players around quite fluidly and even though we are losing an inside mid and a utility, I think they will countenance replacing them with a forward and a utility. This is why we require players to be so versatile these days. Maybe Dawson (or Mills or even COR) play more midfield minutes.

In: Menzel, McVeigh

Out: Kennedy, Fox

[bloodspirit]

Meant to add, the injury list is typically uninformative.

Naismith and Smith's return dates are listed "TBC". (FFS!) Reynolds and McLean aren't listed at all despite not having played recently. See here: https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-05-28/the-full-afl-injury-list-round-11.

However, I have seen for the first time that McLean did get allocated jumper #41. I wonder which numbers Knoll and Hirst will get. Presumably #39 and #48?

[Blood Fever]

Let Ramps kick in, i dont reckon Lloyd or McVeigh can kick 45m
Agree with this. More penetration. Wonder if it's to do with fact that he is too important if we turn it over from kick in.

[waswan]

Lloyd's kicked 55m set shots for goal.
Have tou been watching him kick in ?
Long down line to edge of square, way too narrow
He should be running off somone marking it 25m out

[Ruck'n'Roll]

If Mills isn't going into the mids to replace Joey or George, but stays down back then I'm not sure there is the same urgency to bring back McV for steadiness/organisational purposes.
Which means bringing Rowbottom into the midfield. Although I'd like to see Stoddart get a 3rd game in the seniors too.

I'm also a bit unsure about having Buddy, Menzel, Blakey, Reid and McCartin in the same forward line.

[Ralph Dawg]

I just can't see where Menzel fits if you don't drop McCartain or Blakey, which would be a shame as both are the future of the club and are currently playing well. Menzel needs to earn his spot and come in when the need arises. He certainly shouldn't replace Hayward as has been suggested as he lacks the forward pressure Will provides.
Macca could come in (shift Mills into the midfield) but I would prefer Stoddart. That kid can run and has a good kick on him. Like McCartain and Blakey, he is the future.

[bloodspirit]

My suggested ins and outs are what I think might happen rather than my preference. I would be delighted and excited to see Stoddart and Rowbottom selected.

[stevoswan]

Sound logic always wins in the end.

That would have had much more credibility coming from someone else.....:smile:

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Not sure a captain of a club should be engaging in borderline activities or goal post climbing in the dying moments of tight contests though . Needs to settle down a bit . Form good, just cut out the weird stuff that has the potential to cost us games .



+1

[wolftone57]

Sinkers is an average Ruckman who gets towled up by good Ruckman and breaks even against the rest.
Geelong don't have s strong ruck division so he will go ok against them.Yes I think they got Sinkas as a back up and then the unthinkable actually happened and Naismith did his knee. He tries hard but just does not have the rucking skill set. He is good as a back up Ruck forward but not as a first ruck.

I think he probably won't figure in a premiership tilt unless he plays mostly as a forward. His HO to advantage figures are dreadful and his HO stats against good rucks are appalling. Naismith, when he plays has a good ratio of both bug lacks a forward presence while resting.

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[wolftone57]

Macca will gain nothing by playing in the magoos.
In the seniors an experienced head can make a huge difference, especially to a young and, on average, inexperienced side.
And even though Macca not be fleet of foot anymore the way he can move through traffic is generally smooth and controlled. He doesn't tend to handball/kick to a teammate under immediate pressure.Yes he will. Match fitness. Better than getting it in the seniors

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[707]

Menzel won't come in after just two NEAFL games on managed minutes. No rush to bring him in, given the seriousness of his injury, keep him coming along slowly, two more NEAFL games, then the bye. Look at him after the bye unless we get injuries before then.

Blakey will probably move up the ground when Menzel is added to the forward line.

This week minimum change, Macca in for JPK, move Mills to a wing, Dawson into the centre, we know it makes sense!

[crackedactor]

I just can't see where Menzel fits if you don't drop McCartain or Blakey, which would be a shame as both are the future of the club and are currently playing well. Menzel needs to earn his spot and come in when the need arises. He certainly shouldn't replace Hayward as has been suggested as he lacks the forward pressure Will provides.
Macca could come in (shift Mills into the midfield) but I would prefer Stoddart. That kid can run and has a good kick on him. Like McCartain and Blakey, he is the future.

Actually I was thinking Hayward should make way for Menzel. That won't change the structure of the. Forward line too much. If Macca comes into the side I hope they stick with COR, as he does have some serious pace, unlike Thurlow. Out should be Kennedy, Hayward Thurlow, the ins should be Macca, Menzel and Rowbottom.


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[Nico]

Good points in there Liz.

If Macca comes in, it must not be at the expense of Thurlow or COR. That would be a retrograde step. Releasing Mills to the mids for at least a couple of games would be a popular outcome here on RWO.

I've been impressed with Clarke and to a lesser extent Fox in defensive roles. Clarke on Higgins / Sidebum and Fox on Saad / Polec although his role was less clear last week. I don't think there's any way an underdone McVeigh could replace either, but if Fox made way for Mills it would have to be in a different role.

The other question is who makes way for Menzel if they decide to play him against his former club, which would have a nice symmetry about it with Gaz doing the same. If we play Reid, McCartin, Buddy, Blakey and Menzel that's a forward line lacking in smalls... I wonder if they'd give McCartin or Blakey a spell? They've both been going OK.

To me Hayward is the obvious one to go out for Menzel. He was less than inspiring last week. If Menzel doesn't come in this week Hayward will need to lift his game big time and become desperate to keep his spot.

[111431]

To me Hayward is the obvious one to go out for Menzel. He was less than inspiring last week. If Menzel doesn't come in this week Hayward will need to lift his game big time and become desperate to keep his spot.

I agree- young Will has been disappointing

[chammond]

Yes I think they got Sinkas as a back up and then the unthinkable actually happened and Naismith did his knee. He tries hard but just does not have the rucking skill set. He is good as a back up Ruck forward but not as a first ruck.

I think he probably won't figure in a premiership tilt unless he plays mostly as a forward. His HO to advantage figures are dreadful and his HO stats against good rucks are appalling. Naismith, when he plays has a good ratio of both bug lacks a forward presence while resting.

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Well . . . . no. That's not right. There is nothing dreadful or appalling about his ruck game. He's not the best tap ruckman, and not as good as Naismith, but he's far from the worst. He's certainly better than Lobbe, Martin and Nankervis, and not far off Kreuzer, McEvoy and Stanley, and better than any of them as an out-and-out forward. And he rarely gets injured.
All-in-all, we could do (and have done) a lot worse.

[ernie koala]

Just a thought....But how about we drop those who didn't perform in the Seniors, and play those who played well in the 2's

OUT : Kennedy (inj), Fox, Hayward

IN : Rowbottom, Menzel, Stoddart

[barry]

Well . . . . no. That's not right. There is nothing dreadful or appalling about his ruck game. He's not the best tap ruckman, and not as good as Naismith, but he's far from the worst. He's certainly better than Lobbe, Martin and Nankervis, and not far off Kreuzer, McEvoy and Stanley, and better than any of them as an out-and-out forward. And he rarely gets injured.
All-in-all, we could do (and have done) a lot worse.

Actually, I think Sinkers is one of the worst first-choice tap ruckman going around at the moment. He does make up for it a bit around the ground, but a big reason why we are struggling this year is getting thrashed in the middle because of weak ruck division.

[wolftone57]

Well . . . . no. That's not right. There is nothing dreadful or appalling about his ruck game. He's not the best tap ruckman, and not as good as Naismith, but he's far from the worst. He's certainly better than Lobbe, Martin and Nankervis, and not far off Kreuzer, McEvoy and Stanley, and better than any of them as an out-and-out forward. And he rarely gets injured.
All-in-all, we could do (and have done) a lot worse.Look he is not better than Nankervis at all. For pure rucking Toby is streets ahead. At least he hits to advantage more often than Sinkas. I like Sinkas as a forward pinching in the Ruck. Not as, a first Ruck man. But we seem to have a lot of forward Ruck men. Not sure if his talent is any better than the others.

The reason for drafting Knoll is that he is a real Ruck man or is turning into one. He is strong, hits to advantage, gets lots of hit outs, look only at the latest figures not the early figures because he only changed sports three years ago. He seems to have shown continued improvement and is seen as possibly the best Ruck in the SANFL on current form.

The dreadful and appalling is the waste of taps. When he does get them, and sometimes when he wins the Ruck battles, it is the lack of any taps to advantage and the taps at the feet of the mids that are just terrible. That is the worst place you can put a ball to a mid. That is crunch city and injury inducing. If we don't gat a real Ruck in soon the chances of losing more miss is rather high.

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[wolftone57]

Menzel won't come in after just two NEAFL games on managed minutes. No rush to bring him in, given the seriousness of his injury, keep him coming along slowly, two more NEAFL games, then the bye. Look at him after the bye unless we get injuries before then.

Blakey will probably move up the ground when Menzel is added to the forward line.

This week minimum change, Macca in for JPK, move Mills to a wing, Dawson into the centre, we know it makes sense!'we know it makes sense' channeling Sam Kekovich? Oh what fun

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[neilfws]

The reason for drafting Knoll is that he is a real Ruck man or is turning into one

Good photos from training today, they have Knoll up against Sinclair already :)

Sydney Swans on Twitter: "First session as Swans for our mid-season draftees Cody Hirst and Michael Knoll 🦢 #ProudlySydney… " (https://twitter.com/sydneyswans/status/1133911649885097984)

[Nico]

Actually, I think Sinkers is one of the worst first-choice tap ruckman going around at the moment. He does make up for it a bit around the ground, but a big reason why we are struggling this year is getting thrashed in the middle because of weak ruck division.

Can't agree Bazza. My hobby horse is our centre clearance record for years. Our mids and how we set up are the problem. They spend too much time blocking instead of making a beeline for the ball. Sinkers has good second efforts when the ball hits the ground in the guts. Works as hard as anyone in the side.

[wolftone57]

Can't agree Bazza. My hobby horse is our centre clearance record for years. Our mids and how we set up are the problem. They spend too much time blocking instead of making a beeline for the ball. Sinkers has good second efforts when the ball hits the ground in the guts. Works as hard as anyone in the side.Yes his second efforts are excellent but his taps are a disaster.

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[Auntie.Gerald]

Fascinating decisions by the snr playing group and coaches this week

I’d love to see us continue with our current backline despite macca still a very very good decision maker for our transitions and for structure in defence

I think macca staying out and letting us continue in developing our backline is crucial for next year as well as macca not adding to much compared what we saw last week

Menzel a totally different equation though given him having another few years as a player and given his forward leadership and avge of two goals a game

The below is a serious forward line rotation that becomes bloody tough to stop as the year goes on. These targets truly demand the opposition to look to playing a spare defender where ever possible which helps our midfield have a fair contest if not an unfair advantage at the contested ball

Menzel
Buddy
Blakey
Reid
Hawyard
Paps
Dawson

[longmile]

Fascinating decisions by the snr playing group and coaches this week

I’d love to see us continue with our current backline despite macca still a very very good decision maker for our transitions and for structure in defence

I think macca staying out and letting us continue in developing our backline is crucial for next year as well as macca not adding to much compared what we saw last week

Menzel a totally different equation though given him having another few years as a player and given his forward leadership and avge of two goals a game

The below is a serious forward line rotation that becomes bloody tough to stop as the year goes on. These targets truly demand the opposition to look to playing a spare defender where ever possible which helps our midfield have a fair contest if not an unfair advantage at the contested ball

Menzel
Buddy
Blakey
Reid
Hawyard
Paps
Dawson

I agree 100% with the danger of this forward line offensivelt, my one concern, especially with both Hayward and Menzel is our forward pressure and tackling inside forward 50. Arguably only Papley has elite forward pressure.

[dimelb]

Fascinating decisions by the snr playing group and coaches this week

I’d love to see us continue with our current backline despite macca still a very very good decision maker for our transitions and for structure in defence

I think macca staying out and letting us continue in developing our backline is crucial for next year as well as macca not adding to much compared what we saw last week

Menzel a totally different equation though given him having another few years as a player and given his forward leadership and avge of two goals a game

The below is a serious forward line rotation that becomes bloody tough to stop as the year goes on. These targets truly demand the opposition to look to playing a spare defender where ever possible which helps our midfield have a fair contest if not an unfair advantage at the contested ball

Menzel
Buddy
Blakey
Reid
Hawyard
Paps
Dawson

Impressive lineup AG. I look for the inclusion , in due time, of a sorted-out fired up Ronke.

[Auntie.Gerald]

McCarten
Ronke

as well makes 9 to choose from

[Markwebbos]

That new kid Hirst looks like a tracking machine. His highlights video had a large section of run down tackles. And he claims to be a good kick.

[Meg]

That new kid Hirst looks like a tracking machine. His highlights video had a large section of run down tackles. And he claims to be a good kick.

Yes he just needs a few of Mrs Kenny’s roast dinners and a couple of pre-season training blocks to bulk him up.

[wolftone57]

Yes he just needs a few of Mrs Kenny’s roast dinners and a couple of pre-season training blocks to bulk him up.Yes he's only 67kg

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[Meg]

Yes he's only 67kg

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I weigh more than that [emoji3062] [emoji2369]!

[wolftone57]

I weigh more than that [emoji3062] [emoji2369]!So do I and I'm only 163cm

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[Blood Fever]

Impressive lineup AG. I look for the inclusion , in due time, of a sorted-out fired up Ronke.

Ronke must improve his kicking or else he won't make a long term player. Up the ground, he is a turnover waiting to happen.

[wolftone57]

Ronke must improve his kicking or else he won't make a long term player. Up the ground, he is a turnover waiting to happen.I have seen him kick very well up the ground. He seems to be out of sorts this year. I wonder if when they got Dan Menzell his confidence fell away.

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[707]

I have seen him kick very well up the ground. He seems to be out of sorts this year. I wonder if when they got Dan Menzel his confidence fell away. Touch player who is out of touch. Back in touch he'll be back in the team.

[Blood Fever]

Touch player who is out of touch. Back in touch he'll be back in the team.
Dodgy technique means he is hit or miss. Delivering passes is his problem more than goalkicking. Can't carry players who turn it over a lot.

[ugg]

McVeigh and Menzel
For
Kennedy and Thurlow

Bit harsh on young Jackson.

[707]

McVeigh and Menzel
For
Kennedy and Thurlow

Bit harsh on young Jackson.Seen as the weakest link in the backlines. COR moved past him.

Menzel forward, Blakey up the ground?

As expected, Dawson into the square in place of JPK.

Emergencies: Thurlow, Ronke (MC still have faith), Rowbottom and ......... Grassy! Probably just so he can travel with the team?

[Nico]

Seen as the weakest link in the backlines. COR moved past him.

Menzel forward, Blakey up the ground?

As expected, Dawson into the square in place of JPK.

Emergencies: Thurlow, Ronke (MC still have faith), Rowbottom and ......... Grassy! Probably just so he can travel with the team?

Why wouldn't they play Grassy in the 2's?

[Bexl]

Seen as the weakest link in the backlines. COR moved past him.

Menzel forward, Blakey up the ground?

As expected, Dawson into the square in place of JPK.

Emergencies: Thurlow, Ronke (MC still have faith), Rowbottom and ......... Grassy! Probably just so he can travel with the team?

If he is not likely to play no point knoll going with the team. Better to play in the seconds.
Still interesting to see him as an emergency already.

[707]

Forecast shower or two and 16, be windy as always down there.

[Matty10]

McVeigh and Menzel
For
Kennedy and Thurlow

I am happy with these inclusions.

I don’t understand the negativity surrounding McVeigh. If his body holds up, I would want him playing with us next year also. We have very little class in our back half as it is (the amount of floating, helicopter punts and daft handballs on display are hardly encouraging signs for the future), not sure I would be looking to get rid of someone so creative quite so quickly.

[MattW]

Seen as the weakest link in the backlines. COR moved past him.

Menzel forward, Blakey up the ground?

As expected, Dawson into the square in place of JPK.

Emergencies: Thurlow, Ronke (MC still have faith), Rowbottom and ......... Grassy! Probably just so he can travel with the team?

They'll want Knoll to play NEAFL, won't they? Tipping Thurlow travels.

[Hotpotato]

I’ll be there ... with my friend a Cats fan ....
Hope I don’t too scratched !

[Blood Relative]

Very interesting that Knoll has been selected as an emergency?!?? Are we giving him a taste of travel, preparation, a chance to chat to Sinkers on the plane or foxing?? Perhaps a late change? Seems odd to me. Did not see the Thurlow out coming at all. I had been very happy with his recent efforts.

Go Bloods

[Markwebbos]

Maybe they want to take Grassy to Melbourne just to rub the Bombers noses in it.

[barry]

Maybe they want to take Grassy to Melbourne just to rub the Bombers noses in it.

He's playing!

[ernie koala]

Fox and Hayward can consider themselves very lucky.

Both need to have more impact this week.

[stevoswan]

Forecast shower or two and 16, be windy as always down there.

I'm heading down to watch the game with my future son in law and his Dad, both Cat members. I will be well scarved, beanied, windcheated and jacketed......and where are my long johns?:tongue:

[Meg]

Papley as dangerous as Buddy, says Cats coach Tom Papley has been paid the ultimate compliment by Geelong coach Chris Scott.
http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/goalsneak-papley-as-dangerous-as-buddy-says-geelong-coach-20190529-p51sfz.html?btis

[The Runner]

Knoll won't play or travel. He'll be playing ressies. The selection as emergency is either to let him know why he's here, or a message to Cameron.
He's interesting to watch on his highlights. He doesn't leave the ground when rucking, seems to rely on his strength to out position opponents. Will work against the mid tier rucks, but leapers like Gawn, Grundy, Nic Nat will have a field day on him.
Anyone defending Sinclair, beyond that he has a go, is misguided. Reid out performed him in the ruck last week against Grundy. He is not a tap ruck, he doesn't clear space for the mids, and he's unsighted up front this year. He's minding the spot until Naismith is back.

Good call on McVeigh. You can't put a price on the value having him in the team alongside COR, Mills, Aliir etc. They learn from him. Just playing kids and you end up like Carlton.
Though it's a shame we won't see Mills in the middle. He's really stagnated this year down back.

[Mark26]

Knoll won't play or travel. He'll be playing ressies. The selection as emergency is either to let him know why he's here, or a message to Cameron.
He's interesting to watch on his highlights. He doesn't leave the ground when rucking, seems to rely on his strength to out position opponents. Will work against the mid tier rucks, but leapers like Gawn, Grundy, Nic Nat will have a field day on him.
Anyone defending Sinclair, beyond that he has a go, is misguided. Reid out performed him in the ruck last week against Grundy. He is not a tap ruck, he doesn't clear space for the mids, and he's unsighted up front this year. He's minding the spot until Naismith is back.

Good call on McVeigh. You can't put a price on the value having him in the team alongside COR, Mills, Aliir etc. They learn from him. Just playing kids and you end up like Carlton.
Though it's a shame we won't see Mills in the middle. He's really stagnated this year down back.

Great post TR
+1 on all points. Sinkers isn't a ruckman. For an ex-basketball player, I thought it strange that Grassy stayed on the turf too. And McVeigh is still a great footballer. He McStays as long as possible. Nobody has his pointing prowess.

[lwjoyner]

Feel sorry for cameron if knoll gets game

[barry]

Knoll won't play or travel. He'll be playing ressies. The selection as emergency is either to let him know why he's here, or a message to Cameron.
He's interesting to watch on his highlights. He doesn't leave the ground when rucking, seems to rely on his strength to out position opponents. Will work against the mid tier rucks, but leapers like Gawn, Grundy, Nic Nat will have a field day on him.

This board can be a little bit Cameron-obsessed. He hasnt shown much for all the hype on here. I doubt the match committee thought for one second about "sending a message to Cameron".


Anyone defending Sinclair, beyond that he has a go, is misguided. Reid out performed him in the ruck last week against Grundy. He is not a tap ruck, he doesn't clear space for the mids, and he's unsighted up front this year. He's minding the spot until Naismith is back.

Yup.


Good call on McVeigh. You can't put a price on the value having him in the team alongside COR, Mills, Aliir etc. They learn from him. Just playing kids and you end up like Carlton.
Though it's a shame we won't see Mills in the middle. He's really stagnated this year down back.

Ive heard this about McVeigh for 5 years now. I think our defenders of Mills, Allir, Rampe, Lloyd, Jones, Melican etc and few others have been in the system long enough to not need nanny-mcveigh out there pointing for them.

[caj23]

He's minding the spot until Naismith is back.

28 games in 5 1/2 years on the list, and he doesn't look like getting back this year despite the fact that he did his knee 16 months ago

You're very optimistic

[Nico]

Forecast shower or two and 16, be windy as always down there.

It's a hole.

[Sandrevan]

I doubt the MC are sending a message to Cameron - wouldn't they just tell him. The inclusion of Grassy Knoll (even as an emergency) suggests to me the MC don't rate Cameron as a ruckman. I'm glad to see Menzel in the team but I hope he has enough fitness to play the game out. He'll know the conditions at GMHBA stadium

[Markwebbos]

I found this nugget of information tucked away in a Hun article today.

Category: | Herald Sun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/catch-up-on-all-the-latest-wheeling-and-dealing-in-the-afl-with-the-round-11-moneyball-column/news-story/3217ebe851e889d4efe8aa37a2667b3e)

SYDNEY shocked Essendon by securing SANFL ruckman Michael Knoll in the mid-season draft, with the Dons barely disguising their frustration at missing the former college basketballer. One of their stated reasons was because of uncertainty over the future of back-up ruckman Sam Naismith, who hasn’t played since rupturing an ACL in March last year. He required another arthroscope in March this year, but Naismith has finally started putting training sessions together and should be back in the last six weeks of the year. He played 15 games in 2017 and looked to have spectacular talent but hasn’t written his season off.

[AnnieH]

This board can be a little bit Cameron-obsessed. He hasnt shown much for all the hype on here. I doubt the match committee thought for one second about "sending a message to Cameron".

Yup.


Ive heard this about McVeigh for 5 years now. I think our defenders of Mills, Allir, Rampe, Lloyd, Jones, Melican etc and few others have been in the system long enough to not need nanny-mcveigh out there pointing for them.

Again.
Feel my temperature. There's something wrong with me.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Ive heard this about McVeigh for 5 years now. I think our defenders of Mills, Allir, Rampe, Lloyd, Jones, Melican etc and few others have been in the system long enough to not need nanny-mcveigh out there pointing for them.
+1
I would have thought so too. But when I saw him coming straight back in, without doing a week in the 2's it got me wondering - is he going to be offered another year as well?

[AnnieH]

+1
I would have thought so too. But when I saw him coming straight back in, without doing a week in the 2's it got me wondering - is he going to be offered another year as well?

Hope not.
Kizza and Smooch can go as well.
Thanks boys for giving us your all, but it's time.

[Mel_C]

..

[Markwebbos]

Smith hasn't played this year. A bit unfair to write him off just yet. Having said that, I could see him never playing for the Swans again.

[chalbilto]

What is the actual injury of Smith and what is the extent of it? He has been out a long time and there does not seem to be much indication if or when he is going to return. Do any of the RWO's know?

[Meg]

What is the actual injury of Smith and what is the extent of it? He has been out a long time and there does not seem to be much indication if or when he is going to return. Do any of the RWO's know?

Smith tore his hamstring Round 21 last year. Eventually had surgery, then started running in off season, but could not get past running in straight lines. So had more surgery in early May to relieve scar tissue.

From this article seems doubtful that we will see him at all this year.

Swan's season could be over after more hamstring surgery - AFL.com.au (https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-05-07/swans-smith-season-could-be-over-after-more-hamstring-surgery)

[Meg]

Wrong thread.

[chalbilto]

Thanks Meg. After reading the article I can sadly envisage another retirement at seasons end.