SCG - a cricket ground

[barry]

SCG trust is doing its best to avoid putting in drop-in cricket pitches, and apparently designed the new stands so there would not be a wide enough gap to drive in a new pitch in the future.

Nasty pieces of work that bunch.

[Blood Fever]

SCG trust is doing its best to avoid putting in drop-in cricket pitches, and apparently designed the new stands so there would not be a wide enough gap to drive in a new pitch in the future.

Nasty pieces of work that bunch.

Cricket fan as well as Swans fan. AFL overreaching and arrogant as usual. Historic NSW cricket ground. Leave it alone.

[wolftone57]

Cricket fan as well as Swans fan. AFL overreaching and arrogant as usual. Historic NSW cricket ground. Leave it alone.Why? Drop in pitches are used extensively today. They are good pitches and it stops the problem of pitches having to be relayed after every winter

Sent from my ANE-LX2J using Tapatalk

[Blood Fever]

Why? Drop in pitches are used extensively today. They are good pitches and it stops the problem of pitches having to be relayed after every winter

Sent from my ANE-LX2J using Tapatalk

Only used in states where AFL dominates. Not used overseas. Melbourne wicket was lifeless for years after drop in first used. Only marginally better now. Pitch preparation traditional part of the game. MCG, SCG, Gabba, Adelaide Oval all originally cricket grounds. SCG especially doesn't have to roll over to the demands of the AFL.

[Faunac8]

SCG trust is doing its best to avoid putting in drop-in cricket pitches, and apparently designed the new stands so there would not be a wide enough gap to drive in a new pitch in the future.

Nasty pieces of work that bunch.
Apparently being the key word. Any actual facts to back up this allegation?
And just curious what does SCG stand for again?

[Captain]

I would be interested to see if this is actually the case but my feel is that more people would go to the SCG every year to watch AFL than watch cricket.

[neilfws]

I would be interested to see if this is actually the case but my feel is that more people would go to the SCG every year to watch AFL than watch cricket.

I wasn't sure about this but according to the SCG 2017-18 annual report (PDF) (https://www.scgt.nsw.gov.au/media/4057/scgt-2018-annual-report.pdf) - you are correct.

Total cricket attendance for that period was 371, 470. Total AFL attendance was 421, 838.

I've read that cricket brings in more revenue, but haven't seen the numbers for that anywhere yet.

[Blood Fever]

I wasn't sure about this but according to the SCG 2017-18 annual report (PDF) (https://www.scgt.nsw.gov.au/media/4057/scgt-2018-annual-report.pdf) - you are correct.

Total cricket attendance for that period was 371, 470. Total AFL attendance was 421, 838.

I've read that cricket brings in more revenue, but haven't seen the numbers for that anywhere yet.

Clarkson brought up the different nature of the centre area as an excuse after we beat Hawks recently despite winning there over the last few years. Never been heard about since Swans started there nearly 40 years ago. AFL not the major sport in Sydney and the Swans have established themselves brilliantly and the proposed new facilities are fantastic. Club is really well respected. This sort of over reach, especially in conjunction with the AFL, could backfire in terms of PR.

[neilfws]

Clarkson brought up the different nature of the centre area as an excuse after we beat Hawks recently despite winning there over the last few years. Never been heard about since Swans started there nearly 40 years ago.

Yes, for anyone a little baffled as to what the issue really is (as I was) - it's alleged that the cricket square is slipperier than the rest of the ground. There were also concerns as to how the surface would hold up under the increased schedule of other sports this season.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/pitch-battle-afl-says-drop-in-strip-would-look-better-for-game-20190702-p523hg.html

That article states that "Swans players have privately complained for years about slippery conditions on the cricket square once it was wet."

[KTigers]

I wasn't sure about this but according to the SCG 2017-18 annual report (PDF) (https://www.scgt.nsw.gov.au/media/4057/scgt-2018-annual-report.pdf) - you are correct.

Total cricket attendance for that period was 371, 470. Total AFL attendance was 421, 838.

I've read that cricket brings in more revenue, but haven't seen the numbers for that anywhere yet.

Yes, you'd think it would. Tickets to the cricket are definitely higher than Swans ticket pricing. Also, people are there
for six or seven hours as opposed to three for a Swans game, so cricket fans will be spending more on food & drinks.

[bloodspirit]

Cricket fan as well as Swans fan. AFL overreaching and arrogant as usual. Historic NSW cricket ground. Leave it alone.

I'm with you Blood Fever. I feel this way despite being way more passionate about footy (I only care about first class cricket) and despite the fact that I'm unsurprised that footy attracts greater numbers to the SCG, I'm only surprised the difference is so small but that's because I'm barely aware of BBL.

[KTigers]

Whether the centre square is "slippery" or not "slippery", don't both teams play on it at the same time, right? I don't understand
the fuss.

[Hotpotato]

So is it more to do with injuries ?

[liz]

So is it more to do with injuries ?

I'd have thought that was the major concern. I've heard players talk about how difficult it is to select appropriate footwear to cope with the difference in traction and hardness, especially when the ground is wet. That also has a knock-on effect for the quality of football that we get to watch, if it means players are likely to slip over.

I don't think the team has suffered a high incidence of injuries that could be attributed to the state of the ground (compared to, for example, the WA teams who are still struggling with playing so regularly on the hard Optus ground). So it's probably not a major issue.

That said, whether AFL or cricket pulls in more people, or generates more revenue for the SCG Trust, they are both clearly important sports to the commercial operations and community purpose of the stadium. I don't think it's unreasonable for the AFL competition (and the Swans in particular) to wish for their requirements to be taken into consideration in the ongoing management of the stadium, something that I suspect happens less than it might.

[Blood Fever]

I'd have thought that was the major concern. I've heard players talk about how difficult it is to select appropriate footwear to cope with the difference in traction and hardness, especially when the ground is wet. That also has a knock-on effect for the quality of football that we get to watch, if it means players are likely to slip over.

I don't think the team has suffered a high incidence of injuries that could be attributed to the state of the ground (compared to, for example, the WA teams who are still struggling with playing so regularly on the hard Optus ground). So it's probably not a major issue.

That said, whether AFL or cricket pulls in more people, or generates more revenue for the SCG Trust, they are both clearly important sports to the commercial operations and community purpose of the stadium. I don't think it's unreasonable for the AFL competition (and the Swans in particular) to wish for their requirements to be taken into consideration in the ongoing management of the stadium, something that I suspect happens less than it might.

Probably not unreasonable to ask, but NSW is and has been the powerhouse of Australian cricket, has won the most Sheffield Shields easily and the current Test team has at least half the side from there. The Swans get a really good run in relation to the iconic Sydney sporting arena and are now further enhancing their presence in the new facilities within the same precinct. Reckon they and the AFL should pull their heads in a bit on something, whilst probably annoying to the players, is not such a big deal.

[Kumarangk]

Fan of both but the SCG wicket has a unique character and gives wrist spinners a go , and is famous all round the cricket world because of it.Drop in pitches don't have this character and if you look at the revenue the AFL is not that far ahead of cricket to justify any change. The wicket should be heritage listed !!

[AnnieH]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soul-patch-saving-the-scg-pitch-a-matter-of-the-heart-20190705-p524fs.html

Article from today's SMH.

[stevoswan]

Why? Drop in pitches are used extensively today. They are good pitches and it stops the problem of pitches having to be relayed after every winter.

They are generally boring pitches that promote draws.....yawn. :p

[stevoswan]

Apparently being the key word. Any actual facts to back up this allegation?
And just curious what does SCG stand for again?

Barry was right....

"The renovation of the SCG, which Cavalier oversaw, did not leave a vehicle entry wide enough to import the drop-ins used in Melbourne and Adelaide. Snookered!"

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soul-patch-saving-the-scg-pitch-a-matter-of-the-heart-20190705-p524fs.html

[AnsweredPrayers]

Last two tests at the SCG Australia scored 538/8 dec and 650/7 dec. This is the sort of exciting cricket people love, apparently.

[Blood Fever]

Last two tests at the SCG Australia scored 538/8 dec and 650/7 dec. This is the sort of exciting cricket people love, apparently.

Very good first innings wicket. Tests can go for five days. Drop in wickets generally a lot flatter.

[stevoswan]

Last two tests at the SCG Australia scored 538/8 dec and 650/7 dec. This is the sort of exciting cricket people love, apparently.

As long as Australia is making those scores.....yes.:wink:

[MattW]

Very good first innings wicket. Tests can go for five days. Drop in wickets generally a lot flatter.

That's not the case with the new Perth pitches. The technology is improving. The Melbourne pitches have used inferior technology, but will be evolving to the better technology. The technological aspects are described here: MCG drop-in pitch to be upgraded to Perth standard | ESPNcricinfo.com (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/25564044/exclusive-mcg-drop-pitch-upgraded-perth-standard).

I was against a drop in pitch until I saw Longmire's comments earlier this year, having read that article last December.

[Blood Fever]

That's not the case with the new Perth pitches. The technology is improving. The Melbourne pitches have used inferior technology, but will be evolving to the better technology. The technological aspects are described here: MCG drop-in pitch to be upgraded to Perth standard | ESPNcricinfo.com (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/25564044/exclusive-mcg-drop-pitch-upgraded-perth-standard).

I was against a drop in pitch until I saw Longmire's comments earlier this year, having read that article last December.
AFL doesn't have a divine right that supersedes the traditions of a national sport played in every state.

[Faunac8]

Barry was right....

"The renovation of the SCG, which Cavalier oversaw, did not leave a vehicle entry wide enough to import the drop-ins used in Melbourne and Adelaide. Snookered!"

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soul-patch-saving-the-scg-pitch-a-matter-of-the-heart-20190705-p524fs.html
Thanks for that pretty sneaky for sure but it is after all the Cricket Ground so I suspect they have a certain proprietary feeling about it.

[MattW]

AFL doesn't have a divine right that supersedes the traditions of a national sport played in every state.

Divine right is a bit strong. If the character of the pitch can be retained, it'd be preferable to better accommodate both right?

[barry]

Surprised that the swans didn't use the leverage of the 40 year deal with the ground to make drop in pitches a condition.

[Blood Fever]

Divine right is a bit strong. If the character of the pitch can be retained, it'd be preferable to better accommodate both right?

Don't reckon it can.be retained. Despite my affinity with the Swans, a minor sport in Sydney shouldn't be making demands on a national and historically significant icon, in my opinion.

[barry]

AFL is not a minor sport at the SCG.

And drop in pitches are less disruptive to cricket than trying to resurect a muddy AFL centre square.
Both sports loose out by sharing the same centre turf.

[Blood Fever]

AFL is not a minor sport at the SCG.

And drop in pitches are less disruptive to cricket than trying to resurect a muddy AFL centre square.
Both sports loose out by sharing the same centre turf.

Rugby League was played there for almost 100 years and then AFL. Never been a problem to prepare the wicket which has had a unique character. People not into cricket would not appreciate significance of the ground and the wicket. Cricket is far more popular than AFL.in NSW and the SCG.is the home of cricket in that state.

[KTigers]

It's a pity

[KTigers]

…. got distracted..... meant to say it's a pity we can't have our own stadium.

[barry]

Blood fever, you don't even live in Sydney.

You are overstating the problems of drop in pitches. With today's tech they are better than permanent pitches and produce the same spin friendly charcteristics the SCG always produced.... More consistently.

[Ralph Dawg]

Australian pitches are all roads these days. The idea that they have their own distinct characteristics is a myth. Even the famed SCG, is not the spinners paradise it once was. This is due to curators being instructed to prepare pitches with no lateral movement or zip until day 4 to maximise CA revenue. It's essentially either a bat fest by flat track bullies or batsmen getting themselves out, either by poor shot selection or getting bored out by line and length bowling. I much rather watch overseas tests, which are much more of a true contest between bat and ball. So bring on a drop in, won't change anything significantly anyway. Might actually give bowlers a better chance if prepared properly and at the same time, reduce the risk of injury to the footy players in winter.

[Blood Fever]

Blood fever, you don't even live in Sydney.

You are overstating the problems of drop in pitches. With today's tech they are better than permanent pitches and produce the same spin friendly charcteristics the SCG always produced.... More consistently.

So Barry, living in Sydney, you've never had an opinion about anything in Melbourne? Turn it up !

[Blood Fever]

Australian pitches are all roads these days. The idea that they have their own distinct characteristics is a myth. Even the famed SCG, is not the spinners paradise it once was. This is due to curators being instructed to prepare pitches with no lateral movement or zip until day 4 to maximise CA revenue. It's essentially either a bat fest by flat track bullies or batsmen getting themselves out, either by poor shot selection or getting bored out by line and length bowling. I much rather watch overseas tests, which are much more of a true contest between bat and ball. So bring on a drop in, won't change anything significantly anyway. Might actually give bowlers a better chance if prepared properly and at the same time, reduce the risk of injury to the footy players in winter.

If Cricket NSW and Cricket Australia want a drop in, fair enough. They don't and the AFL are minor players here much as they wouldn't like it.

[Ralph Dawg]

If Cricket NSW and Cricket Australia want a drop in, fair enough. They don't and the AFL are minor players here much as they wouldn't like it.
Who's decision is it? If it's CA then why are we even talking about it?

[barry]

NSW tax payers pay for the SCG.

[MattW]

Don't reckon it can.be retained. Despite my affinity with the Swans, a minor sport in Sydney shouldn't be making demands on a national and historically significant icon, in my opinion.

The point I was making is that drop-in pitch technology is improving such that there is a reasonable prospect the character of the pitch can be retained. I agree with Ralph Dawg that there's a bit of mythology attached to SCG pitch anyway. Did you read the article?

AFL isn't a minor sport in Sydney. Earlier posts suggest that more people attend Swans games than cricket.

[Blood Fever]

Who's decision is it? If it's CA then why are we even talking about it?

Apparently, it's the SCG Trust who control what happens on the ground.

[Ralph Dawg]

Apparently, it's the SCG Trust who control what happens on the ground.
So the members have final say? I suspect most would be "purists" and vote to keep the pitch. If that's the case, then only 2 real options - suck it up (especially you Clarkson) or move to ANZ (no thanks). As an aside, love watching footy at Spotless. If they could get funding to turn it into a cut down Optus, say around 40,000 capacity, would that be a possible solution?

[Blood Fever]

So the members have final say? I suspect most would be "purists" and vote to keep the pitch. If that's the case, then only 2 real options - suck it up (especially you Clarkson) or move to ANZ (no thanks). As an aside, love watching footy at Spotless. If they could get funding to turn it into a cut down Optus, say around 40,000 capacity, would that be a possible solution?

Not sure if the members have the final say, don't know the ins and outs. Contract to play footy at SCG is for a while but probably not to 2057 like MCG GF!

[barry]

So the members have final say? I suspect most would be "purists" and vote to keep the pitch. If that's the case, then only 2 real options - suck it up (especially you Clarkson) or move to ANZ (no thanks). As an aside, love watching footy at Spotless. If they could get funding to turn it into a cut down Optus, say around 40,000 capacity, would that be a possible solution?

The giants certainly have a better playing field due to the drop in wickets used for the big bash.
It will be a while before it gets bigger but can easily get to around 30,000 without major redevelopment.

Too far West for most swans supporters though.

[barry]

Not sure if the members have the final say, don't know the ins and outs. Contract to play footy at SCG is for a while but probably not to 2057 like MCG GF!
If drop in pitches are good enough for the MCG then they are good enough for the SCG. To be honest, the SCG is like a quaint English village ground compared to the MCG.
The SCG is looking dated already, and will be a very poor cousin to the new Allianz stadium next door.

[Blood Fever]

If drop in pitches are good enough for the MCG then they are good enough for the SCG. To be honest, the SCG is like a quaint English village ground compared to the MCG.
The SCG is looking dated already, and will be a very poor cousin to the new Allianz stadium next door.

Reason drop in wicket is at MCG is that all of Melbourne is in thrall to the mighty AFL. Not so in Sydney. SCG still a cricket ground.

[jono2707]

Blood fever, you don't even live in Sydney.



Barry, you don't even go to any matches at the SCG.

It's a cricket ground first and foremost, and it's also our home. Most of us fans love the SCG, even with its idiosyncrasies and limitations.

[erica]

Article by Malcolm Knox in today's SMH

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soul-patch-saving-the-scg-pitch-a-matter-of-the-heart-20190705-p524fs.html

[Blood Fever]

Article by Malcolm Knox in today's SMH

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soul-patch-saving-the-scg-pitch-a-matter-of-the-heart-20190705-p524fs.html

Excellent article. I'm with Malcolm

[barry]

Excellent article. I'm with Malcolm

Emotional drivel. The ground has been resurfaced so many times, there would hadly be a sod left that was graced by bradman. tony Lockett kicked his record goal from the forward line not the centre wicket.

I stand with the swans on this. Cricket NSW needs to grow up.

Btw, I play cricket and love the game.

[Blood Fever]

Emotional drivel. The ground has been resurfaced so many times, there would hadly be a sod left that was graced by bradman. tony Lockett kicked his record goal from the forward line not the centre wicket.

I stand with the swans on this. Cricket NSW needs to grow up.

Btw, I play cricket and love the game.
Where's your romance for the game?

[MattW]

Where's your romance for the game?

I have romance for the game. Like bloodspirit, I am most interested in domestic first class cricket. The commercialised version of international cricket has lost a lot of its appeal for me.

But I think the mystique of the spinning SCG test strip is overblown. It's dirt and grass. Like barry says, it's been relaid. If it does have unique characteristics then these can be replicated by putting that dirt and grass in modern pitch containers.

It seems archaic to me to play footy on a cricket pitch at the scg.

[Blood Fever]

I have romance for the game. Like bloodspirit, I am most interested in domestic first class cricket. The commercialised version of international cricket has lost a lot of its appeal for me.

But I think the mystique of the spinning SCG test strip is overblown. It's dirt and grass. Like barry says, it's been relaid. If it does have unique characteristics then these can be replicated by putting that dirt and grass in modern pitch containers.

It seems archaic to me to play footy on a cricket pitch at the scg.

Didn't seem too archaic watching Roos v Saints today at Blundstone Arena with the cricket square clearly visible. Very free flowing game.

[mcs]

6 of one, half a dozen of the other in terms of a drop in pitch or not. I can see both sides of the argument, though from a purely selfish perspective I'd like it gone for AFL footy. But I like cricket too - and I do think the pitch isn't anywhere near what it once was in terms of its 'individuality'.

If anyone wants to see though what drives decision making at the ground, look at the design of the new Noble/Bradman Stand on the top level - with that ridiculous open section at the top of the stand. I understand solely at the purvey of cricket's want (and it may well be reasonable) to ensure adequate wind flow through to help with cricket pitch growth (and perhaps turf growth too?). All fine and good - a breeze in summer not an issue. Can be like the bludy arctic circle up there in winter at times though - really unsuitable on windy days for watching footy. Not even hard one to solve - lots and lots of grounds overseas have solved the need for wind flow with the need to maximise comfort for all patrons. But it seems only cricket was at the forefront of thinking.

Makes me think the bit about not having an area wide enough for a pitch to be bought in for drop in pitches is not just a coincidence.

[ernie koala]

Barry, you don't even go to any matches at the SCG.

It's a cricket ground first and foremost, and it's also our home. Most of us fans love the SCG, even with its idiosyncrasies and limitations.

+1

[Blood Fever]

6 of one, half a dozen of the other in terms of a drop in pitch or not. I can see both sides of the argument, though from a purely selfish perspective I'd like it gone for AFL footy. But I like cricket too - and I do think the pitch isn't anywhere near what it once was in terms of its 'individuality'.

If anyone wants to see though what drives decision making at the ground, look at the design of the new Noble/Bradman Stand on the top level - with that ridiculous open section at the top of the stand. I understand solely at the purvey of cricket's want (and it may well be reasonable) to ensure adequate wind flow through to help with cricket pitch growth (and perhaps turf growth too?). All fine and good - a breeze in summer not an issue. Can be like the bludy arctic circle up there in winter at times though - really unsuitable on windy days for watching footy. Not even hard one to solve - lots and lots of grounds overseas have solved the need for wind flow with the need to maximise comfort for all patrons. But it seems only cricket was at the forefront of thinking.

Makes me think the bit about not having an area wide enough for a pitch to be bought in for drop in pitches is not just a coincidence.

Pretty sure it wasn't a coincidence - showed a lot of forethought and insight into the rapacious nature of the AFL.

[barry]

Barry, you don't even go to any matches at the SCG.

It's a cricket ground first and foremost, and it's also our home. Most of us fans love the SCG, even with its idiosyncrasies and limitations.

While "many" may love the SCG and the swans being the poor cousin tenant of the ground, there are more than a few that share my views.
Whatever way you look at it, we will loose a few fans over the long term by being crickets b1tch.
The SCG is tired already. Imagine what it will be like in 2047.

[Blood Fever]

While "many" may love the SCG and the swans being the poor cousin tenant of the ground, there are more than a few that share my views.
Whatever way you look at it, we will loose a few fans over the long term by being crickets b1tch.
The SCG is tired already. Imagine what it will be like in 2047.

So you want to get rid of the two old beautiful stands as well?

[barry]

So you want to get rid of the two old beautiful stands as well?

What a weird thing to say. Are they blocking the drop in pitches ?

[KTigers]

I think the only original parts of the SCG left are the Members Stand, and the Ladies Stand. The rest of stands are bog standard
stadium fare, neither bad or good. Don't quite understand why they couldn't get all the "new" stands to match. Money, presumably.
I agree with MCS re the gap at the top of the Noble/Bradman. I figure it's meant to be a breezeway (in summer) but it also looks
like they couldn't afford to pay for the back wall to go all the way to the top. I think all the soil and turf was replaced when they
put the new drainage system in five or six years ago.

[AnnieH]

While "many" may love the SCG and the swans being the poor cousin tenant of the ground, there are more than a few that share my views.
Whatever way you look at it, we will loose a few fans over the long term by being crickets b1tch.
The SCG is tired already. Imagine what it will be like in 2047.

"Tired"??
There are two brand new stands, with the O'Rielly stand going next. What more do you want?
The member's and ladie's stands are heritage listed. They're going nowhere.
You don't even go to the SCG, so what's your point here?

[Blood Fever]

"Tired"??
There are two brand new stands, with the O'Rielly stand going next. What more do you want?
The member's and ladie's stands are heritage listed. They're going nowhere.
You don't even go to the SCG, so what's your point here?

Noticed last night Healy On the Couch doing the AFL's bidding saying it was a no brainer for a drop in pitch at SCG. Breathtaking entitlement.

[barry]

On the question of drop on pitches, it's a question of when, not if.

With good management, a drop in pitch is superior to a footy-trashed centre pitch.